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| Did Umar(R) carry a whip with him to Jeruselm? |
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| panjul |
| 02/05/03 at 09:43:38 |
| [slm] So anyone read "Islam at the crossroads?" What do you think? A professor in my college is making it required reading for his philosphy class. I haven't gone to see him yet but I will and ask him why he chose that book. But first I need to gather my facts together to show why the book is filled with factuall errors. For many of the lies in there I have the facts all in my head. But for some shady things I don't and i'm turning to you wonderful brothers and sisters on here for help. I am going to take this one by one. My first question is that did Umar (R) carry a whip in his hand when he entered Jeruselam? The book says something like, 'Omar invaded Jeruselam wearing rough clothes and brandishing a whip.' Throughout the book the Muslims "invaded" every nation from the middle east to asia, eastern europe and africa, reduced the status of people of the book to dhirmis and imposed burdensome taxes on them. (I don't need any information on taxes and the "invasions.") However, my question is that were the people of the book called "dhirhims"?Is it a derogatory term and what exactly does it mean? Was the the Hagia Sophia church converted to a mosque in what is now Istanbul? In whose reign did this take place, if it happened, and when? I'm hitting the books on a lot of misconceptions, but these three issues that I have raised about, i have never come across these before and need you help. Thanks a lot in advance! |
| Re: Did Umar(R) carry a whip with him to Jeruselm? |
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| panjul |
| 02/05/03 at 10:39:11 |
| [slm] Ok, so I know now that it was in fact converted to a mosque. The book however fails to mention that it is now a Museum. The book also said that when present day Turkey fell, the Muslims gouged out the eyes of saint icons and destroyed them. To the contrary, the Muslims preserved them but later covered them with plaster since it was converted to a mosque. I looked and looked and could not find the answer to a question that arose in my mind, that why did the Muslims convert it into a mosque? Sine Umar's (R) did not pray inside the church in jeruslem saying that he did not want to give later day muslims the excuse to turn it into a mosque. |
| 02/05/03 at 10:39:42 |
| panjul |
| Re: Did Umar(R) carry a whip with him to Jeruselm? |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 02/05/03 at 15:46:27 |
| [slm] [quote author=panjul link=board=library;num=1044456218;start=0#0 date=02/05/03 at 09:43:38] My first question is that did Umar (R) carry a whip in his hand when he entered Jeruselam? The book says something like, 'Omar invaded Jeruselam wearing rough clothes and brandishing a whip.' [/quote] Well, he entered the city holding the reins of his ride - a `onkey! Usually when people ride animals, they control them with a whip!! |
| 02/05/03 at 15:47:07 |
| Abu_Hamza |
| Re: Did Umar(R) carry a whip with him to Jeruselm? |
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| panjul |
| 02/05/03 at 19:11:10 |
| [slm] Usually when people ride animals, they control them with a whip!! Exactly what i was thinking, that it must have been for his donkey. But the book made it sound like Umar "invaded Jeurselum brandishing a whip in hand" and walked the streets. He put "burdensone taxes on the 'people of the book'" and reduces them to the status of "dhirmis." 'Jews and Christians were forced to wear distinctive clothings.' In that context the reader gets the impression that he used the whip to scare people into submission. so anyone got any sort of answers for my questions? |
| Re: Did Umar(R) carry a whip with him to Jeruselm? |
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| merimda |
| 02/05/03 at 23:53:28 |
| <<However, my question is that were the people of the book called "dhirhims"?Is it a derogatory term and what exactly does it mean?>> I think dhirmi is dhimmi..protected people status. Some non-Muslim historians argue that despite the protection given to the people of the book the dhimmi contract, relegated them to an inferior status because in return for protection they had to pay the Jizya, which they say was higher than what Muslims had to pay, and also they argue that dhimmis had to agree to regulations and restrictions of the kind outlined in the "Pact of Umar" (a document attributed to Umar ibn Al Khataab (ra) however no text of the document can be dated before the tenth or eleventh century). Here is a version of the pact :http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.html We heard from 'Abd al-Rahman ibn Ghanam [died 78/697] as follows: When Umar ibn al-Khattab, may God be pleased with him, accorded a peace to the Christians of Syria, we wrote to him as follows: In the name of God, the Merciful and Compassionate. This is a letter to the servant of God Umar [ibn al-Khattab], Commander of the Faithful, from the Christians of such-and-such a city. When you came against us, we asked you for safe-conduct (aman) for ourselves, our descendants, our property, and the people of our community, and we undertook the following obligations toward you: We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, Churches, convents, or monks' cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims. We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days. We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy, nor bide him from the Muslims. We shall not teach the Qur'an to our children. We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it. We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit. We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the qalansuwa, the turban, footwear, or the parting of the hair. We shall not speak as they do, nor shall we adopt their kunyas. We shall not mount on saddles, nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our- persons. We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals. We shall not sell fermented drinks. We shall clip the fronts of our heads. We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the zunar round our waists We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims. We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices when following our dead. We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims. We shall not take slaves who have beenallotted to Muslims. We shall not build houses overtopping the houses of the Muslims. (When I brought the letter to Umar, may God be pleased with him, he added, "We shall not strike a Muslim.") We accept these conditions for ourselves and for the people of our community, and in return we receive safe-conduct. If we in any way violate these undertakings for which we ourselves stand surety, we forfeit our covenant [dhimma], and we become liable to the penalties for contumacy and sedition. Umar ibn al-Khittab replied: Sign what they ask, but add two clauses and impose them in addition to those which they have undertaken. They are: "They shall not buy anyone made prisoner by the Muslims," and "Whoever strikes a Muslim with deliberate intent shall forfeit the protection of this pact." from Al-Turtushi, Siraj al-Muluk, pp. 229-230. Anyway, to counter the argument made above it has been argued that if this document can be traced to Umar ibn Al Khattab (ra) the purpose of it was not to be restrictive or discrimantory but rather its purpose was to protect the identity of the Muslim minority. Furthermore, when the Muslims established themselves these regulations were not enforced. I'm not sure if any of this is helpful.. salam, merimda |
| 02/08/03 at 03:10:38 |
| merimda |
| Re: Did Umar(R) carry a whip with him to Jeruselm? |
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| panjul |
| 02/06/03 at 00:01:20 |
| [slm] Mermida, You are a Jewl. :) :-* :-* :-* Now, anyone else, can ya help me with the question of Hagia Sophia? I'm not getting you guys to do the research for me. Trust me I'm buried in books upto my head! :) I'm just asking for bits of info here and there. Thanks for any help, thoughts, ideas. |
| 02/06/03 at 00:04:24 |
| panjul |
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