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| What happens to babies and little kids when??? |
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| Caraj |
| 02/09/03 at 13:33:06 |
| :-[ If being a Christian or Muslim requires faith and acceptance and a proffession of faith and embracing the faith, what happens to little ones who die before they can understand this and do something about it? If you are Christian or Muslim please don't just tell me, please also show me by refering to a verse in the Quran or Bible I can actually look up please. Thank you |
| 02/09/03 at 13:34:24 |
| Caraj |
| Re: What happens to babies and little kids when??? |
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| Emerald |
| 02/09/03 at 14:08:02 |
| [slm] Caraj....I know I've read something about this somewhere ....just can't recall where at the moment though. Anyways, I found something else that might answer your question. It's a hadith by Sahih Muslim. Muslim reported from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allah (swt) said: "No one of you will enter Paradise by his deeds alone" They asked, "Not even you, O Messenger of Allah?" He said, "Not even me, unless Allah covers me with His Grace and Mercy." From my own knowledge and I'm sure of this even though I don't have the hadith is that there are certain people who enter Paradise directly without judgement. Such as the mentally retarded and of course the Saliheen whoever they may be -with Allah's mercy of course. Allah (swt) is Most Merciful. I think that says alot in itself. |
| Re: What happens to babies and little kids when??? |
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| paula |
| 02/10/03 at 00:08:17 |
| Caraj [slm] With the permission of Allah, Here are a couple of references I could think of right away.... Hope you may find them helpful....... Insha Allah the first two have reference to the Quranic Verse 30:30 HADITHS: Translation of Sahih Bukhari ------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- Volume 2, Book 23, Number 441: Narrated Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "Every child is born with a true faith of Islam (i.e. to worship none but Allah Alone) but his parents convert him to Judaism, Christianity or Magainism, as an animal delivers a perfect baby animal. Do you find it mutilated?" Then Abu Huraira recited the holy verses: "The pure Allah's Islamic nature (true faith of Islam) (i.e. worshipping none but Allah) with which He has created human beings. No change let there be in the religion of Allah (i.e. joining none in worship with Allah). That is the straight religion (Islam) but most of men know, not." (30.30) ----------------------- Volume 2, Book 23, Number 440: Narrated Ibn Shihab: The funeral prayer should be offered for every child even if he were the son of a prostitute as he was born with a true faith of Islam (i.e. to worship none but Allah Alone). If his parents are Muslims, particularly the father, even if his mother were a non-Muslim, and if he after the delivery cries (even once) before his death (i.e. born alive) then the funeral prayer must be offered. And if the child does not cry after his delivery (i.e. born dead) then his funeral prayer should not be offered, and he will be considered as a miscarriage. Abu Huraira, narrated that the Prophet said, "Every child is born with a true faith (i.e. to worship none but Allah Alone) but his parents convert him to Judaism or to Christianity or to Magainism, as an animal delivers a perfect baby animal. Do you find it mutilated?" Then Abu Huraira recited the holy verses: 'The pure Allah's Islamic nature (true faith i.e. to worship none but Allah Alone), with which He has created human beings.' " (30.30). --------------------------------------------------- Volume 1, Book 3, Number 101: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Some women requested the Prophet to fix a day for them as the men were taking all his time. On that he promised them one day for religious lessons and commandments. Once during such a lesson the Prophet said, "A woman whose three children die will be shielded by them from the Hell fire." On that a woman asked, "If only two die?" He replied, "Even two (will shield her from the Hell-fire)." ---------------------------------------------------------- (another similar): Volume 2, Book 23, Number 341: Narrated Abu Sa'id: The women requested the Prophet, "Please fix a day for us." So the Prophet preached to them and said, "A woman whose three children died would be screened from the Hell Fire by them," Hearing that, a woman asked, "If two died?" The Prophet replied, "Even two (would screen her from the (Hell) Fire. " And Abu Huraira added, "Those children should be below the age of puberty" ----------------------------------------------- (in reference to age of puberty/the age of commiting sins): Volume 1, Book 3, Number 102: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: as above (the sub narrators are different). Abu Huraira qualified the three children referred to in the above mentioned Hadith as not having reached the age of committing sins (i.e. age of puberty) . ----------------------------------------------- Volume 2, Book 23, Number 465: Narrated Ibn Abbas: Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) was asked about the children of (Mushrikeen) pagans. The Prophet replied, "Since Allah created them, He knows what sort of deeds they would have done." ---------------------------------------------- Volume 2, Book 23, Number 466: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet was asked about the offspring of pagans (Mushrakeen); so he said, "Allah knows what sort of deeds they would have done." --------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------ Again I hope you might find this helpful or leading in the right direction to finding the answers you are looking for. Maybe others here can help out with some better or more clear references.......... Maybe more about puberty and accountability of sins after this time.......I believe I had read something about a boy being asked by the prophet (SAW) of his profession of faith at the age of puberty too...... but I could be wrong on that one. Still really enjoying this community here ......... "Thank-you to everyone !!" [wlm] |
| Re: What happens to babies and little kids when??? |
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| bhaloo |
| 02/10/03 at 07:21:08 |
| [slm] [quote author=Caraj link=board=madrasa;num=1044815586;start=0#0 date=02/09/03 at 13:33:06] :-[ If being a Christian or Muslim requires faith and acceptance and a proffession of faith and embracing the faith, what happens to little ones who die before they can understand this and do something about it? If you are Christian or Muslim please don't just tell me, please also show me by refering to a verse in the Quran or Bible I can actually look up please. Thank you [/quote] Sheikh Munajjid answered this question here. Also I'd like to point out that Islamic sources are not just limited to the Quran but include the example of the Prophet (SAW) [the sunnah] preserved in the hadiths. Will ALL children that died before the age of account go to jena OR will only the children of the muslim parents? Answer: Praise be to Allaah. We may divide this issue, in sha Allaah, into two parts: Firstly: the fate of the children of the Muslims. Secondly: the fate of the children of the kuffaar. With regard to the first part, the fate of the children of the Muslims: Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: With regard to the children of the believers, there is no dispute among the scholars. Al-Qaadi Abu Ya’laa ibn al-Farraa’ al-Hanbali narrated that Imaam Ahmad said: there is no dispute concerning the fact that they will be among the people of Paradise. This is what is well known among people (i.e., the majority of scholars) and this is what we are definitely sure about, in sha Allaah. (Tafseer al-Qur’aan al-‘Azeem, 3/33). Imaam Ahmad (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: who has any doubts that the children of the Muslims will be in Paradise?! He also said: there is no difference among them on this matter. (Haashiyat Ibn al-Qayyim ‘ala Sunan Abi Dawood, 7/83). Imaam al-Nawawi said: the reliable Muslim scholars agreed that any Muslim child who dies will be among the people of Paradise, because he was not responsible (i.e., had not yet reached the age of account). (Sharh Muslim, 16/207). Al-Qurtubi said: the view that they will be in Paradise is the view of the majority. And he said: some scholars denounced any dispute concerning them. (al-Tadhkirah, 2/328). With regard to the second part, the fate of the children of the kuffaar: The scholars differed concerning this matter, and there are several views: That they will be in Paradise. Some of them said, they will be in al-A’raaf [a place between Paradise and Hell]. And the reason why it was said that they will be in Paradise is because this is the ultimate destiny of the people of al-A’raaf. This is the view of the majority of scholars, as reported from them by Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr in al-Tamheed, 18/96. Their evidence (daleel): The hadeeth of Samurah (may Allaah be pleased with him), that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw the children of the Muslims and the children of the Mushrikeen with Ibraaheem (peace be upon him). Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6640. Hasnaa’ bint Mu’aawiyyah from Bani Suraym said: my paternal uncle told me: I said, O Messenger of Allaah, who will be in Paradise? He said: Prophets will be in Paradise, martyrs will be in Paradise, infants will be in Paradise and baby girls who were buried alive will be in Paradise. Narrated by Imaam Ahmad, 5/409; classed as da’eef by al-Albaani in Da’eef al-Jaami’, 5997. That they will be with their parents in Hell. Al-Qaadi Abu Ya’laa attributed this view to Ahmad! But Shaykh al-Islam (Ibn Taymiyah) pointed out that this was a grave error. See Haashiyat Ibn al-Qayyim ‘ala Sunan Abi Dawood, 7/87. Their evidence (daleel): Salamah ibn Qays al-Ashja’i said: my brother and I came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said that our mother had died during the Jaahiliyyah, and that she had honoured her guests and upheld the ties of kinship, but that she had buried alive a sister of ours during the Jaahiliyyah who had not reached the age of puberty. He said: the one who was buried and the one who buried her are in Hell, unless Islam reached the one who buried the child alive and she became Muslim. The hadeeth was classed as hasan by Ibn Katheer in al-Tafseer, 3/33, and before him by Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr in al-Tamheed, 18/120. There are other ahaadeeth, but they are da’eef (weak). Not giving any opinion on this matter. This is the view of Hammaad ibn Zayd, Hammaad ibn Salamah, Ibn al-Mubaarak and Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh. Their evidence (daleel): According to Ibn ‘Abbaas, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was asked about the children of the mushrikeen, and he said, “Allaah knows best what they would have done.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1383, and Muslim, 2660. There is a similar hadeeth narrated by Abu Hurayrah. Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1384, and Muslim, 2659. Some scholars say that they (the children of the mushrikeen) will be the servants of the people of Paradise. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: there is no basis for this view. (Majmoo’ al-Fataawaa, 4/279) I say: concerning this there was a hadeeth narrated by al-Tabaraani and al-Bazzaar, but it was classed as da’eef by the imaams – including al-Haafiz ibn Hajar in al-Fath, 3/246. That they will be tested in the Hereafter, and whoever obeys Allaah will enter Paradise, and whoever disobeys Him will enter Hell. This is the view of the majority of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, as transmitted by Abu’l-Hasan al-Ash’ari, and it is the opinion of al-Bayhaqi and many other researchers. It is also the opinion favoured by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah. He said that this is what is implied by the texts of Imaam Ahmad, and is the view regarded as most correct by al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer. He said: this view reconciles all the reports, and all the ahaadeeth quoted above support one another. Al-Tafseer, 3/31. Their evidence: Anas said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Four (kinds of people) will be brought forth on the Day of Resurrection: the infant, the insane, the one who died during the Fatrah (the period between two prophets) and the very old man. All of them will speak in their own defence, then the Lord, may He be blessed and exalted, will say to a neck of Hell, ‘Come forth!’ and He will say to them, ‘I used to send Messengers to My slaves from amongst themselves. Now I am the Messenger of Myself to you. Enter this (i.e., the Fire).’ Those who are decreed to be among the doomed will say, ‘O Lord, how could we enter it when we are trying to escape it?’ And those who are decreed to be among the blessed will rush to enter it. And Allaah will say: ‘You would have been more disobedient towards My Messengers.’ So those will enter Paradise and those will enter Hell.” Narrated by Abu Ya’laa, 4224. There are corroborating reports which were mentioned by Ibn Katheer in al-Tafseer, 3/29-31. Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this is the most reasonable of the opinions, which reconciles all the reports and brings all the ahaadeeth into harmony. On this basis, some of them will be in Paradise, as in the hadeeth of Samurah, and some of them will be in Hell, as in the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah. The reply of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) indicates this, as he said: “Allaah knows best what they would have done, because He created them.” It is known that Allaah does not punish anyone on the basis of what He knows, unless what He knows actually comes to pass. The phrase “Allaah knows best what they would have done” indicates that Allaah knows what they would have done if they had lived. The ones who obey Him at the time of the test are the ones who would have obeyed Him if they had lived in this world, and those ones who disobey Him at that time are the ones who would have disobeyed Him if they had lived in this world. This indicates that He knows about what does not happen and how it would have been if it had happened. And Allaah knows best. (Haashiyat Ibn al-Qayyim ‘ala Sunan Abi Dawood, 7/87). The ahaadeeth quoted above stating that they will either be in Paradise or in Hell do not contradict what we believe is more likely to be correct. Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: the ahaadeeth about them being tested is more specific. Whoever Allaah knows will obey Him, He puts his soul in al-Barzakh with Ibraaheem and the children of the Muslims who died in a state of Fitrah, and whoever He knows will not obey Him Him, his case rests with Allaah, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be in Hell, as is indicated in the ahaadeeth about the test and as reported by al-Ash’ari from the scholars of Sunnah. Al-Tafseer, 3/33. The phrase “Allaah knows best what they would have done” does not mean that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was not giving an opinion. Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The evidence used by this group needs further examination. The answer of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) does not mean that he did not want to give an opinion; rather, he was attributing the knowledge of what they would have done if they had lived to Allaah. This was the answer to the question of how they could be with their fathers when they had no deeds in their records – which is part of the hadeeth. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) attributed the knowledge of what they would have done to Allaah; he did not say, Allaah knows best where they will be. This evidence does not support the opinion of this group. And Allaah knows best. Islam Q&A Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com) |
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