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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Illegal Immigrants crying foul: justified or not? |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 02/16/03 at 00:51:51 |
| [slm] I would like to pose a question here. Please reply if you have an opinion. You may use Anonymous posting if you dont feel comfortable sharing your opinion using your name ... Do you think it is unfair/wrong for the INS to arrest and deport people who are living in the United States illegally? It's a general question, lacking specifics. It is worded in that way for a reason. Note that the question doesn't say anything about the current situation, the registration process, etc. Nor does it specify which "people" I'm talking about. Treat the question as it is ... Jazakum Allahu khairan. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah. |
| 02/16/03 at 01:06:39 |
| Abu_Hamza |
| Re: Illegal Immigrants crying foul: justified or n |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 02/16/03 at 10:27:22 |
| being a libertarian i have always been for open borders, but my position has changed somewhat in the last1 1/2 years. A question would be: why would it be a question for te United States and not all countries? |
| Re: Illegal Immigrants crying foul: justified or n |
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| zomorrud |
| 02/16/03 at 13:43:22 |
| [color=blue] bismillah.. assalamu alaikum, deport yes. jail for questioning then fabricate evidence to link to terrorism - no! and i know what you are getting at- in terms of ethnicity. the answer is still yes. it is people who enter illegally who actually hurt law-abiding immigrants from the same background the most. so let's look at it objectively. illegal immigrants use that route, instead of going through the legal channels because they want to take a short cut. they don't like the immigration rules of the country they want to *immigrate* to, so what they do? they invent ways to go anyways. the justification is, well everybody is doing that. it is as if it OK to lie and cheat when dealing with a "kafir" regime (i am trying to simulate the thought process here). as if being a muslim and upholding Islamic morals is restricted to dealings with muslims only. amazing lack of integrity to say the least. well, things have changed a lot since sep 11. these methods of illegal entry have sure backfired, haven't they? having said that, i do like the canadian system where some deportations can be reversed on huminatrian grounds. it is getting tougher though... what a shame... take care wassalam [/color] |
| Re: Illegal Immigrants crying foul: justified or n |
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| Mujahideen |
| 02/16/03 at 18:37:03 |
| [slm] I think generally illegal Muslim immigrants should generally be deported. Muslims are obliged by Sharia to follow the laws of the lands they immigrate to – all such immigrants are defined as Musta’min and are compelled by Sharia to follow the laws of the lands. Immigration is legal if done properly but if not - it is illegal; thus an illegal immigrant would be transgressing the Sharia. They should not be jailed for indefinite periods of time without access to lawyer, etc… Basically should be given enough time to get their affairs in order and to leave the country. Due process of law must also be respected – thus they should be able to exhaust all legal avenues before they are deported. As well Muslim immigrant applicants should be treated in the same manner as all other immigrant claimants. They should also not be deported to countries they had to flee for specific reasons (i.e. their lives or liberty is at stake). In such a case perhaps a refugee or political asylum claim would be more appropriate. Muslims often complain about how harsh immigration laws are here in the ‘west’. I find this position perplexing – there are millions of Muslim immigrants in western lands. I am unaware of any Muslim country where a western born Muslim with no ties to that land can immigrate and become a citizen. Citizenship is necessary in a modern context because it is risky buying land (if one is legally allowed to do such) in a foreign nation. Also investing in business is risky as the state may decide to simply ‘nationalize’ their assets – ones lives savings could be taken. As well with no permanent status you can be kicked out of the country at any time. Hijrah for converts is a difficult proposition. If one wants or has to do it they face many difficult obstacles. Primarily there is nowhere to go where one can even get permanent residency let alone citizenship. So what does one do? There are Muslims who have lived in places like Saudi Arabia for generations without citizenship – they are allowed to stay but can be deported to their ‘ancestral lands’ at a moments notice – for example if they lose their jobs or express a political opinion. At any rate weather one thinks they should be deported or not – being an illegal immigrant in America presently is not a very bright idea. If you are caught you will be thrown in jail for an indefinite period of time without access to council, leaving you family unsupported after that time in all likelihood you will be deported. [wlm] |
| Re: Illegal Immigrants crying foul: justified or n |
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| bhaloo |
| 02/19/03 at 23:32:09 |
| [slm] If we are going to apply these laws to Muslims, then be fair and apply them to all the people that have crossed over illegally in the US. |
| Re: Illegal Immigrants crying foul: justified or n |
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| Halima |
| 02/20/03 at 02:19:13 |
| Arrest and Deport: It is the law in many countries both developed and underdeveloped to do this. But the process is right if the arrest and deportation is done according to laid down procedures without harm to the person or people involved thus minizing the psychological, emotional and personal wealth/belongings however much that may be. Before deportation is executed, it is better to make the person or people concerned ready to leave. Some Muslim countries and especially the Saudi Arabia are very harsh to illegal immigrants. They don't exercise even a shred of humanity when dealing with such people. Now, when the arrest and deportation has a religious or racial conotation or intent, then there is no way you can expect fairness. It is damn ugly and particularly when all laws governing deportation is totaly ignored. And even people with legal rights are dealt with as criminals just because of the his/her religion or race. [slm] Halima |
| Re: Illegal Immigrants crying foul: justified or n |
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| Dawn |
| 02/20/03 at 02:29:59 |
| [slm] [quote author=bhaloo link=board=madrasa;num=1045412550;start=0#4 date=02/19/03 at 23:32:09][slm] If we are going to apply these laws to Muslims, then be fair and apply them to all the people that have crossed over illegally in the US.[/quote] Bhaloo, Funny you should say that. As I have been reading this thread, I have noticed that it seems people automatically think of illegal immigrants who are from Muslim countries. Maybe I am showing my age here or perhaps I have been living in Europe too long now, but the stereotype that comes to mind for me when the words "illegal immigrants" are mentioned are those folks who are essentially economic refugees from "south of the border". Until I read this thread, I didn't even know this was an issue in the Muslim community! Live and learn! |
| Re: Illegal Immigrants crying foul: justified or n |
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| BroHanif |
| 02/20/03 at 14:42:56 |
| Yes deport everyone of them, why settle illegally. However, the question itself needs to be questioned, its too specific and does not consider many items. If you need me to elaborate I will. And everyone stop going on about Muslims, the questions not on that. Salaams Hanif |
| NS |
| Re: Illegal Immigrants crying foul: justified or n |
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| Kareema_Abdul-Khab |
| 02/20/03 at 18:14:30 |
| Yes, do elaborate. I believe you are talking about the impoverishment/dictatorships supported by the US in their own countries? Thus, they are escaping what the West had done to their countries? Besides, almost everyone except for Indians and Mexicans are illegal immigrants anyways, if you go back a few generations. |
| Re: Illegal Immigrants crying foul: justified or n |
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| sister2sister |
| 02/21/03 at 23:53:56 |
| Salaam to all I think ANYONE who settles ANYWHERE illegally should be made to return home and try again legally. YSII :-) |
| Re: Illegal Immigrants crying foul: justified or n |
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| bhaloo |
| 02/22/03 at 08:21:15 |
| [slm] [quote author=Dawn link=board=madrasa;num=1045412550;start=0#6 date=02/20/03 at 02:29:59] [slm] Bhaloo, Funny you should say that. As I have been reading this thread, I have noticed that it seems people automatically think of illegal immigrants who are from Muslim countries. Maybe I am showing my age here or perhaps I have been living in Europe too long now, but the stereotype that comes to mind for me when the words "illegal immigrants" are mentioned are those folks who are essentially economic refugees from "south of the border". Until I read this thread, I didn't even know this was an issue in the Muslim community! Live and learn! [/quote] :) I think it might be because you have been in Europe for a while. Things are changing a lot out here. |
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