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Married with children?

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Married with children?
BrKhalid
02/28/03 at 09:07:01
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)


Would you propose to a sister if you knew she couldn’t have children?

Would your answer change if you found out only after you had made a proposal?


Replies welcome including those from Anonymous if you feel that way inclined. ;-)
Re: Married with children?
Twilight
02/28/03 at 09:20:32
[slm]
I am a very great believer that children are from Allah (SWT), there is a couple i know who had been married for about 11 yrs and had no children, all of the guys family were saying that he should take a second wife, but his view was that if he was going to have children then it would be with his wife. Alhamdulillah they were blessed with twins. :) :) so u see even if a woman is told she can't have children Allah (SWT) is able to do anything..... :-X

[wlm]
T
Re: Married with children?
zomorrud
02/28/03 at 22:23:50
[color=blue]
bismillah...
asslamu alaikum,

why do the ladies keep barging into a thread that is aimed at the brothers  ::)

stay away and watch carefully...i am waiting for the men's answers too.  

i think it is a tough question, but i hope the bros will let their views/feelings
known without fear of retribution from the sisters  ;D

take care
wassalam
[/color]
Re: Married with children?
BroHanif
03/01/03 at 06:14:49
[quote]Would you propose to a sister if you knew she couldn’t have children?

Would your answer change if you found out only after you had made a proposal? [/quote]

No problem with that I see.  Do get married, marrige isn't just about bearing kids. If they do get married and can not have kids I'd ask the family to adopt  five kids soon one from each continent. And then call the family the United colours of Islaam.

There are thousands of kids who are born into Muslim families and sadly have to go into care due to neglect on part of the Muslims, many are turned to care houses where there is no religion and sadly after a while many lose the faith. Its up to us to change the situation whether we can have kids or not.

Salaams

Hanif
NS
03/01/03 at 06:20:47
BroHanif
Re: Married with children?
Adi28
03/02/03 at 18:04:35
[slm]


  You go boy!!! or rather Uncle Hanif.....i totally agree with what you said ...their is too many staving muslims kids out there.....i especially like your  Colors of Islam therory  :)

w'salaams
    Adilah
Re: Married with children?
Tesseract
03/03/03 at 05:00:06
Wa'alaikum Assalam wa Rahmatullah,

            [quote]Would you propose to a sister if you knew she couldn’t have children?[/quote]

               A lot of influence of my parents is involved in such matters and I can't totally reject/ignore/deny them their demands. So, I think I will fail to propose such a sister. However, I have a very strong feeling that if I would be on my own or totally independent in my decision-making in such matters, I probably won't hesitate to propose such a sister.
              However, this question reminds me of the fact that marrying a widow, specially a young one, has been my dream since quite a while and whenever I think about it, I feel like if I really do that, I would achieve something. A young widow suffers from a lot of pain, pain of losing her husband, pain of thoughts of walking alone through her future life, nobody to share grieves and moments of happiness with anymore, but this all can be replaced by remarrying her and if that can be done then why not me who should marry her, why not me who should bring back all those good moments back in her life. We want to keep our wives happy, but why not kill 2 birds with one stone. Why not still aim to marry someone and keep her happy, but someone who deserves more than others.

         [quote]Would your answer change if you found out only after you had made a proposal? [/quote]

                  Same answer. Depends on how much parental influence is involved. If not at all, then I think my answer wouldn't change. Wallahu Ta'ala A'lam.

Wassalam.
               


Re: Married with children?
Barr
03/04/03 at 05:59:55
Salam :)

[quote]Why not still aim to marry someone and keep her happy, but someone who deserves more than others[/quote]

Who deserves more than others?
Re: Married with children?
Tesseract
03/04/03 at 13:45:15
Wa'alaikum Assalam wa Rahmatullah,

        [quote]Who deserves more than others? [/quote]

               A widow deserves more than an unmarried female. But that's 'my' opinion, oriented kinda logically and perhaps emotionally. I am at the moment unaware of any Islamic views on it, and I still have to find out the details about it. All I know is that prophet Muhammad (saw) did marry widow/s, and that is itself more tempting :).

Wassalam.
Re: Married with children?
BrKhalid
03/06/03 at 04:16:34
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-)


Changing the question slightly:


Do you think it's wrong for a brother to only want a wife who can have children?
Re: Married with children?
dirt
03/06/03 at 06:33:50
[slm]

I wouldn't say it's wrong.  What's wrong with a man wanting to have his own children?  If you want something your prospective partner can't provide you I see nothing wrong with moving on.  Besides, if one wife can't have children....you can always have more wives.

I would like to point out that the question can be posed to women in a similar fashion.  Is it wrong to want only a husband who is not impotent?  I don't think so.  It's an individual decision.....of course, there are a lot of orphans out there.

[wlm]
03/06/03 at 06:35:09
dirt
Re: Married with children?
Halima
03/06/03 at 07:16:18
I have never participated in the Ikhwan Health Club.  But I'll make an exception here by sidestepping the issue and say that I like the idea of the United Colours of Islam.

Halima

Re: Married with children?
Dude
04/02/03 at 15:12:07
My sister is in this position…actually, makes for a very interesting story.

She was married to one guy for about two years, and the marriage started falling apart after they couldn’t conceive…turned out she had some female troubles (cysts). She had various operations, and took fertility medication to try and fix the problem, which meant their love life suffered. To make a long story short, he cheated (I still owe the jerk a bloody nose for that), and she booted him out.  

About a year later, she met a really nice guy…great guy; they fell in love, and talked about marriage. She was up-front about her health problems, but he was willing to work through them with her. He would be a great Dad…really wants kids of his own, is great with ours…

Months go by, and he gets himself tested: infertile!

Now, they are going through the process of adopting. I guess there are three ways: through the government agency, privately within Canada, and through a foreign agency. The two private methods are the most expensive, but they’ve opted for those, because the government agency is so inefficient (5+ years!).

They are strongly leaning towards adopting from either China or Africa. They may even adopt two children (siblings), if they can swing it.

The way they’re looking at this (and myself, too) is that this is a blessing in disguise…lots of needy orphans need a good home, and loving parents. They believe they were chosen by God to be people who adopt.
Re: Married with children?
al-tawbah
04/11/03 at 11:39:44
asalamu alaikum

i can't imagine refraining from marrying a woman because she might or might not be able to bear children.

islam gave women equal rights when even centuries later, other faiths still didn't care if a woman died in childbirth, as they considered that her just due.

i can imagine how i would feel if a woman either refrained from marriage with me because i was unable to make children or if she wanted to divorce for that reason.    why would i apply different standards for her than i would want for myself?

wasalaam
Re: Married with children?
Aadhil
04/11/03 at 18:12:52
[slm]
Just a side note here. I heard that the Prophet prohibited the Adoption of children, but asked his people to be a guardian instead.

[Anti-islamic site removed by admin]
[wlm]  ;-)
04/11/03 at 18:38:44
jannah
Re: Married with children?
Dude
04/11/03 at 18:27:53
Just read that. Let's just say that's something I'll chose to ignore. I don't see how adoption of children is a bad thing, and I'd never looked badly upon anyone who does it. In fact, I’ve never heard any Muslim say anything negative about the topic of adoption. Orphans need families, just like kids who aren't abandoned or orphaned through their parent's death do.

Sorry, but I don't get it. This is something I'll get heated on, so please don't come back at me with "The prophet said this", and "In Islam that".

That's so absurd that it actually disturbs me. And some wonder why I have questions about the faith...
04/11/03 at 18:35:05
Dude
Re: Married with children?
jannah
04/11/03 at 18:45:06
grrr... people can you at least investigate what kind of site you are looking at when you post a url!!!

this site is a missionary propoganda site. it has all the usual crap many other sites do including the above article that poor dude read.

dude i don't know how you can do this but please erase that garbage from your mind.

islam does allow adoption and that whole article is written by a vindictive missionary.

the only thing that is not allowed is to hide the lineage of the child, ie you cannot lie to them and tell them they are not adopted.  and that's the only prohibition

there is so much literature in islam about adopting orphans and giving them their rights and not taking what is due to them and feeding them etc etc ... and if we remember back Muhammad [saw] himself was an orphan adopted by his grandfather at 8 and then his uncle at 12.

please dude or anyone else if at any time you read something that sounds weird to you please ask us about it.. we may not know the answer but we can try to find out and at least you're getting the truth and not  anti islamic polemics.

and when doing a general search for an article or terms please research the site itself and see who is behind it.  many sites have "muslim type names" and stufff like "islam information center" and it's all just missionary propoganda and lies.
04/11/03 at 18:53:10
jannah
Re: Married with children?
Dude
04/11/03 at 18:55:33
Thanks so much for that. I was really getting angry by this...I couldn't believe that to actually be true.

I was surprised because my in laws ask about my sister all the time, and really seem endorsing of her adopting children...even offering to help with daycare and the such.

Thanks for clarifying.

I feel much better now.
Re: Married with children?
jannah
04/11/03 at 19:00:29
It's just so maddening... if you don't like Islam good for you.. just go live your life and be happy.. but why spread lies about it and cause more evil and hate in the world!!

The same site has anti-religion quotes on the front page! and one from Howard Stern apparently a credible source to this guy ...people have to stop blaming religion for all their problems. No major religion teaches war, no religion teaches hate. Let people believe what they want to believe and let people learn about each other. That is the only way to understanding and peace in the world.

"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't  think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face white and praying to a rock."  
Howard Stern

04/11/03 at 19:02:52
jannah
Re: Married with children?
al-tawbah
04/11/03 at 23:41:54
asalamu alaikum

i have always figured that adoption was a beautiful thing.    i once asked a sister whom i was talking to when i was xian ( or thought i was xian) why a child must keep the surname from his/her birth rather than that of the new guardians.    her reply was to ask if i had ever watched oprah.

but even after this, i still have heard muslims state that adoption is illegal in islam, so that is why i figured that they must have a different definition of adoption.

if allah*swt* is the one that moves a person to take in and raise a child, then i would venture to say that he considers them the parents.    but look at the world today.    how many cases have we heard of birth parents wanting the child back after the fact.    so obviously it is best to be honest with the adopted child.

it really doesn't matter to me if i am the one to make the child or not.    ultimately, the child is the creation of allah*swt* and nobody else.

wasalaam
Re: Married with children?
jannah
04/12/03 at 00:08:16
[wlm]

I think part of the problem is translation from Arabic. Ta'banni is not allowed in Islam and ta'banni means 'making someone your own son'... which would be translated as "adoption" !!! but what is meant is not telling the child where he/she is from, making the child take your name, etc. However, adoption in the culturally accepted sense of the word is of course allowed and encouraged to a high degree in Islam.
Re: Married with children?
BUSHRA
04/12/03 at 04:48:14
[slm],
Also , to add to the topic of adoption, one of the other reasons for which the adopted child is not allowed to carry the family name of her/his guardians is because in later life, this will blurr a lot of lines on key issues such as marriage and inheritance.
For example, if I adopt a little girl  :), my husband,my brother, my son and my father will not become her 'mahrams' (Blood relatives with whom marriage is prohibited), so hypothetically speaking , in future if my son and my adopted daughter choose to get married , they will be able to do so since they won't be siblings genetically speaking.
I hope that made sense  :D

Bushra :-)
04/12/03 at 04:50:34
BUSHRA
Re: Married with children?
Dude
04/12/03 at 17:36:07
Interestingly enough, since I posted the situation my sister is in, our cousin has actually tracked down his birth mother (about a week and a half ago). He was adopted as a baby into my aunt and uncle’s family. In fact, he’s the oldest of all of us, and one of two siblings out of three in that family whom are adopted. The third was considered a “miracle”, because it was long thought that my aunt couldn’t conceive.

His birth mother has passed on his e-mail to his blood relatives, and for the most part they are interested in meeting him…but his birth mother is not. Apparently he was conceived out of an abusive situation (perhaps rape, he’s not sure exactly), and the birth mother is still dealing with issues. Apparently, she was very, very young when my cousin was born. Right now, she still doesn’t want to meet him.

My two adopted cousins have both found their bloodlines (with great difficulty, as it was a government adoption, and they don’t like releasing records), but there isn’t even the consideration as to who their parents are…the people who raised them. For them, it was to just help answer some unanswered questions. The good thing is, their actions have taught the whole family of the value of adopting. My other cousin and his wife CAN conceive (and are trying), but they went ahead and adopted a child anyhow. Their feeling was that they have enough love in their home for an orphan. Their adopted baby is just over a year now, and as healthy as a horse!


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