A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| saddam |
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| deke |
| 03/08/03 at 12:40:41 |
| what is the islamic veiw on this man and his leadership in iraq? |
| Re: saddam |
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| jannah |
| 03/08/03 at 13:59:15 |
| deke welcome to the board :) introduce yourself at the bebzi so we can get to know ya !! as for saddam, the Muslim world is quite aware of his crimes. He's killed his own people, used gas and other biological weapons against the Kurds and some say the shiite minorities. He tortures and outright kills anyone who criticizes or opposes any of his rule. Simply, he is a dictator. I don't think there is any person who would ever say he follows the teachings of Islam, because all of the above is atrocity and oppression to the extreme - the exact opposite of what a ruler is supposed to be like in Islam. that being said, I for one would like to see the US lift the sanctions and economically help the masses of Iraqi's. Put in place things that would help the Iraqi people in the long run to take over their own government. Right now all their hate and energy is trained towards the United States because of it's foreign policy. ie. Sanctions that have starved a hundred thousand of it's own children. Right now to them Saddam although they know he is evil, I'm sure they're hoping he can protect them from the US onslaught in the war. |
| Re: saddam |
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| deke |
| 03/08/03 at 14:35:28 |
| forgive me i dont know what the bebzi is? Right now all their hate and energy is trained towards the United States because of it's foreign policy. ie. Sanctions that have starved a hundred thousand of it's own children. Right now to them Saddam although they know he is evil, I'm sure they're hoping he can protect them from the US onslaught in the war. i understand that the sanctions have hurt them but wasnt food for oil put into place and if so was it even used? its my opinion he has the resourses to feed and help the people but doesnt, because he wants the US to look bad. I just know in my heart that saddam is just plain evil and doesnt have any care for the people of baghdad,its all about his power trip he loves the limelight at the exspense of the people. Do the people of baghdad get daily current world information?so that they can make their own minds up.I think he gives them only the negative side or his side. It sounds like you agree he must go and i wish like you that no innocent people get hurt. |
| Re: saddam |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/08/03 at 15:49:41 |
| Hello Deke, While Saddam has done some truly evil crimes, this dictator was put into power by the United States. Here was an article on it and some of the other evil dictators put into power by the United States. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taliban_info/message/20 We certainly don't want any innocent people getting killed, weather its Muslims or non-Muslims. And yes people in the middle east do hear news from ALL around the world on a daily basis, they do have TVs and radios there. |
| Re: saddam |
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| Danyala |
| 03/08/03 at 16:09:48 |
| [slm] Just to add to that - although they may have tvs and radios, censorship is probably as rampant in Iraq as media bias is here...in fact i dont think they are even allowed to send/recieve personal emails in Iraq!!! [wlm] :-* |
| Re: saddam |
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| deke |
| 03/08/03 at 16:42:35 |
| Just to add to that - although they may have tvs and radios, censorship is probably as rampant in Iraq as media bias is here...in fact i dont think they are even allowed to send/recieve personal emails in Iraq!!! i have also heard that iraqs largest newspaper is owned by saddams son,so iam betting that all information is being twisted in their favor thus controling the populations frame of mind. |
| Re: saddam |
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| deke |
| 03/08/03 at 17:20:31 |
| While Saddam has done some truly evil crimes, this dictator was put into power by the United States. Here was an article on it and some of the other evil dictators put into power by the United States. iam not proud of US policies but hes a monster plain and simple and the US didnt tell him how to handle his affairs which is common knowledge manufacturing nerve agents seeking nukes ect....,no one can afford to trust him any further hes evil. |
| Re: saddam |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/08/03 at 19:10:54 |
| AA First and foremost, Deke, the main purpose of this board for non muslims is to try to be educated about ISLAM. We have a number of non muslims on this board who seem to want to talk about nothing but political issues. In general, this leads to big fights without any information about ISLAM per se either being taught or learnt. That said, I will be more than happy to answer the question "what does Islam say about opressors and opression?", which is a more general version of the specific question you have asked. Here is a brief answer. 1. The Prophet Mumammed (SAW) said "Help your brother whether he is oppressed or an oppressor. If he is opressed, help him to lift the opression; if he is an opressor, help him to stop being an opressor". In other words, the muslims SHOULD have been screaming at Saddam for all these years about his opression. 2. He (SAW) also said "If anyone helps an oppressor knowing him to be such, he has gone outside the religion of Muhammed(SAW)". In other words, mere support of someone who is an oppressor - knowing him to be such - is enough to almost take someone out of the fold of Islam. 3. He (SAW) also said "Allah (God) has forbidden himself from opression, and has forbidden men from doing opression". 4. He (SAW) also said "Beware of opression, because the prayer of the oppressed is never unanswered (by God)". I could go on, but I hope you see the point. Oppression and injustice is alien to Islam, whether the opressor is a non muslim or calls himself a muslim. The root word for opression in Arabic shares the same root as the word for darkness; the one who opresses will face very dark days on the Day of Judgement. And one final but very important point : in Islam, the biggest oppression/injsutice is considered to be shirk, or taking other gods along with Allah, the one and only true God. Hope this answers your question from an Islamic perspective. And peace be on all those who are guided. |
| NS |
| Re: saddam |
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| deke |
| 03/09/03 at 11:13:02 |
| First and foremost, Deke, the main purpose of this board for non muslims is to try to be educated about ISLAM. We have a number of non muslims on this board who seem to want to talk about nothing but political issues. In general, this leads to big fights without any information about ISLAM per se either being taught or learnt News and discussion about the Ummah and world issues. Moderator: jannah world issues to me is political iam not trying to be difficult but came here to get answers for myself and to get the whole picture from an islamic point of view. |
| Re: saddam |
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| jannah |
| 03/09/03 at 14:01:21 |
| About the Oil for Food program, this is a great website of a UN policy thinktank with articles and evaluations of how the sanctions have not worked and have caused a disasterous long term humanitarian crisis in Iraq. It also examines the oil for food program and how 1/4 of the money goes to war reparations. It has not worked very well and also has done very little for the Iraqi people. http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/iraq1/oilindex.htm Honestly just think about it, if you were an Iraqi mother who's children were starving to death and the only way your country could get the needed rations was to give the US (the country witholding life-essential food and medicine to save thousands of your children) your country's oil? How would you feel about the US? |
| 03/09/03 at 14:06:54 |
| jannah |
| Re: saddam |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/09/03 at 20:34:04 |
| AA Deke, you were asking for the Islamic position on Saddam Hussein. I believe that my response answered that satisfactorily. What else do you want me to say ? From an Islamic point of view, Saddam is an oppressive tyrant. Now people such as myself were saying this many years ago, when the US was his friend. At that time, he was an "evil monster" as you put it. But the US didn't care then. They care now because he's no longer on their side. What is there left to say ? If you want to just get into an "us vs. them" argument, you won't get it from me. Saddam is evil, period. |
| NS |
| [color=Teal][/color]Re: saddam |
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| deke |
| 03/10/03 at 00:48:32 |
| Deke, you were asking for the Islamic position on Saddam Hussein. I believe that my response answered that satisfactorily. What else do you want me to say ? From an Islamic point of view, Saddam is an oppressive tyrant. Now people such as myself were saying this many years ago, when the US was his friend. At that time, he was an "evil monster" as you put it. But the US didn't care then. They care now because he's no longer on their side. What is there left to say ? If you want to just get into an "us vs. them" argument, you won't get it from me. Saddam is evil, period. thanks you for your response but i wanted many reponses not just one.....sorry if iam coming across wrong and iam no trying to argue i just wanted to get an opinion from all of you on a subject i think about alot.is this the right place????? |
| Re: saddam |
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| deke |
| 03/10/03 at 01:06:40 |
| Honestly just think about it, if you were an Iraqi mother who's children were starving to death and the only way your country could get the needed rations was to give the US (the country witholding life-essential food and medicine to save thousands of your children) your country's oil? How would you feel about the US? i dont like it anymore than you do jannah,but honestly all saddam had to do was give up his weapons not oil, but he likes them more than life that mothers life her children,this a man that has how many palaces and enough money to support a country.Enough money to smuggle warhead parts into the country but cant for food or medicine, a man that eats pet gazelles for dinner, a man that has killed his way to the top.Its just as much his fault if not more he just wanted to use that against the US. this is just an opinion open for debate............... |
| Re: saddam |
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| paula |
| 03/10/03 at 01:39:57 |
| [slm][size=3][font=Book Antiqua][color=Navy] Deke...... are you Muslim or non-Muslim..... I'm getting confused here because it looks as if you listed yourself as Muslim on the Board.. and then sounding like you're non-Muslim from the responses to you??... Anyway.... that doesn't really matter, isn't really important, just thought to ask? It's good you're asking such a question..... I think there are many that have no idea... and how can anyone know anything without asking and thinking about it. You know what's scary....... Americans might think they know so much.... haven't been suppressed...."all this freedom".... but what differnece does it make if we have access to information(as you made refrence to tv/media/etc)...... if nobody has been interested in obtaining or learning about it!! You're going to find alot of people in the world that understand alot more than a large large percentage of Americans....... simply because Americans have been too busy playing around. Letting someone else think. Not important for them to know anything(not important to understand what is truth and what is distorted). Our government controls it all and will take care of us has been the big theme for a long time. I'm not personally suffering so what's the difference. So busy just trying to live day to day, not enough time, etc,etc. There's alot of details that many Americans have no knowledge of. And until recently and many as of yet...... really do not care. Islamically........ I don't think you're going to go very many places and find anyone giving you a view that Saddam has not done evil things. I don't think that's disputable and anyone that is telling you otherwise, you might want to take a closer look at....... they've spelled it out pretty clear here for you I think........ but War..... maybe that's what you're more concerned about..... and on that one I think you need to take a Big Big BIG Step back to take a look at it. You can't get a good view from one or two statements here. It isn't the right or wrong of Saddam that's at question here or anywhere in the world right now at all........ It's the Bigger Picture. Let me see...... have you ever seen one of those examples...... like hmm a black dot that appears to be in the form of hmmm....... a sunflower...... but as you zoom out.......... you actually see that it was the pupil of a man in the bigger picture.... your so close...... that you only see the very smallest of detail and you'd never have a clue or imagine it was just a small tiny part of a much larger picture....... (the mind didn't even go there.... didn't even comprehend it)........ that's where you're at I think....... Step way way back..... take alot more points into consideration..... Saddam......... he's just that very center....... you might like the color.... you might not..... you might think it's a great sunflower......... you might even think you should add to it...... draw a little bit more into the picture........ draw a stem or a sun behind it....... then step back and look at the picture...... what would you have then....you'd have a mess...... Or then again you might hate the sunflower all together and want to erase it/get rid of it........ Then step back and see what you have.... then you'll have a picture of a man with one eye...... It's perspective........ don't be looking to close or you might miss what's really going on.... if we are going to add or subtract from the picture we better be in the right view. Well good luck at answering the questions you have. There is no doubt there is evil on this land and so many of us do not want it.... but I don't think Evil begins and ends with Saddam........ are we all really ready to completely dispose of the Evil as in President Bush's declared mission(Maybe)..... do we all really understand what that really means?(Maybe Not) And are we certain of the right way to go about it ? (Allahu Alam) [/color][/font][/size] [wlm] |
| Re: saddam |
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| Halima |
| 03/10/03 at 01:49:01 |
| Hello Deke, {i dont like it anymore than you do jannah,but honestly all saddam had to do was give up his weapons not oil, but he likes them more than life that mothers life her children,this a man that has how many palaces and enough money to support a country.Enough money to smuggle warhead parts into the country but cant for food or medicine, a man that eats pet gazelles for dinner, a man that has killed his way to the top.Its just as much his fault if not more he just wanted to use that against the US. this is just an opinion open for debate............... } Right now, the point is NOT TO CAUSE MORE SUFFERING to the Iraqi people through another war. Janna, Bhaloo & The Humble Muslim have all told you that Saddam is EVIL. All people know that regardless of their faith or political inclination. The same U.S. that made Saddam what he is today is the same country trying to remove him by all means. This means more Iraqis will die JUST because of that. {that being said, I for one would like to see the US lift the sanctions and economically help the masses of Iraqi's. Put in place things that would help the Iraqi people in the long run to take over their own government. Right now all their hate and energy is trained towards the United States because of it's foreign policy. ie. Sanctions that have starved a hundred thousand of it's own children. Right now to them Saddam although they know he is evil, I'm sure they're hoping he can protect them from the US onslaught in the war}. I completely agree with Jannah on the above. I work for UNICEF (United Nations Children's Fund) and child and maternal mortality is HIGH in Iraq because of the SANCTIONS!!! They do not DESERVE that. The Iraqi people should be given the incentives to remove Saddam through their own volition. Removal of santions will certainly ensure that. All that the sanctions are doing now is unite the Iraqis behind Saddam. Why??? Because the rest of the world is against them by imposing sanctions which have killed their children, wives and elderly. Ten years is long enough. All these are being done to teach Saddam a lesson at the cost of the Iraqi people. So, Deke, just put yourself in their shoes (Iraqi)!!! Look at it from a human point of view. We have more dictators in this world. Yet not all of them are being punished the same way. The Humble Muslim has given you what Islam says about dictators and oppressors. They are SIMPLY EVIL, PERIOD. [wlm] Halima |
| Re: saddam |
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| Maliha |
| 03/10/03 at 08:42:25 |
| [slm] [quote author=deke link=board=ummah;num=1047145241;start=0#12 date=03/10/03 at 01:06:40] i dont like it anymore than you do jannah,but honestly all saddam had to do was give up his weapons not oil, but he likes them more than life that mothers life her children,this a man that has how many palaces and enough money to support a country.Enough money to smuggle warhead parts into the country but cant for food or medicine, a man that eats pet gazelles for dinner, a man that has killed his way to the top.Its just as much his fault if not more he just wanted to use that against the US. this is just an opinion open for debate...............[/quote] I don't get it. So are you saying because Saddam is evil then those mothers deserve to die? Those children born without a fault of their own should die, because their leader is corrupt? We all know that Saddam is evil, but what about Bush? Saddam has killed many people? Have you compared those statistics to how many people have died under direct US action abroad and at home? So does that mean that Americans are fair game to disease, hunger, and death because their leadership is involved in many covert activities leading to many innocent deaths, plunder, and injustices abroad? It seems like we are willing to write Iraqis off because they didn't get rid of Saddam, so what about those people that died in 9/11 are their deaths justified because they didn't change US foreign policies? The US has no moral ground to stand on...If Saddam has done some evil things, *with the help of the US weapons*, the US can't turn around and threaten to kill more innocent people for Saddam's sake. What happened to OBL? They went in and killed masses of Afghanis for what? Now Usama is not even mentioned, and in the news Saddam is equated with the "war on terror"...with Afghanistan fields open for oil pipelines, all they need are to get their hands on the oil itself. They should just come out and say it! All this B.S. about saddam is evil, blah blah blah..is simply a reason..not even a good one at that! Sis, Maliha [wlm] |
| Re: saddam |
| deke |
| 03/10/03 at 13:13:08 |
| .... but I don't think Evil begins and ends with Saddam........ its my opinion that it starts with him but by no means ends with him, hes just the start of a new evil to come in the form of terrorism. I thank all of you that responded to my post iam not a muslim nor am i a hater i just needed your opinions to help me shape mine thats why i came here,i would like to have the correct opinion on all that is going on around us but i dont think there is one. its a catch 22 everwhere i look..................saddam is evil and is funding and suppying terrorist,taliban, usama bin ladin,US policies have put the american people in this position of being the bad guy and hated,9/11,isrealis,palistinians, afganistan,north koreas timing, it just never ends. i have stepped back to get a better picture but the picture isnt getting better.(my head hurts) your thoughts? |
| Re: saddam |
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| Maliha |
| 03/10/03 at 13:19:43 |
| [quote author=deke link=board=ummah;num=1047145241;start=15#16 date=03/10/03 at 13:13:08].... but I don't think Evil begins and ends with Saddam........ its a catch 22 everwhere i look..................saddam is evil and is funding and suppying terrorist,taliban, usama bin ladin,US policies have put the american people in this position of being the bad guy and hated,9/11,isrealis,palistinians, afganistan,north koreas timing, it just never ends. [/quote] Sadly we are all sufffering from the same headache, and stomach churching ulcers everytime we turn on the TV or read the news. You say Saddam is supplying terrorists? Says who? Where's the evidence? The links between Al Qaeda and Saddam have not been established aside from heresay. Please don't believe everything you hear on the media! Sis, Maliha. |
| Re: saddam |
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| deke |
| 03/10/03 at 13:26:36 |
| I don't get it. So are you saying because Saddam is evil then those mothers deserve to die? Those children born without a fault of their own should die, because their leader is corrupt? no.................thats exactly what iam not saying iam just pointing out that saddam could have helped and didnt,hes just as guilty as the US is but the US takes all the heat it just ticks me off that the security council cant vote and get him out of power hes a pain to everybody and makes it worse with every word that comes of of his mouth, its like its a game to saddam and i dont like this game.iam for a peaceful solution but how is it done? |
| Re: saddam |
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| deke |
| 03/10/03 at 13:34:48 |
| Sadly we are all sufffering from the same headache, and stomach churching ulcers everytime we turn on the TV or read the news. You say Saddam is supplying terrorists? Says who? Where's the evidence? The links between Al Qaeda and Saddam have not been established aside from heresay. Please don't believe everything you hear on the media! sorry thats my personal opinion that saddam is suppying them and helping them,it just seems to perfect for him in his situation right now being surrounded how else could he strike and not do it personally.I just dont put anything past this guy. |
| Re: saddam |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/10/03 at 14:09:29 |
| Deke, You have now deviated away from your original question. You are no longer asking about the Isalmic viewpoint on Saddam (which I think has been satisfactoriyl answered), but you are now saying "I think Saddam will do A, B, and C, and for that reason he should be brought down militarily, even if Iraqi civialians who hat ehim have to die". This is a totally fruitless discussion. If u want to learn about Islam, then keep asking. If you just want to argue as a spokesperson for the War machine, we're ALL wasting our time here. |
| NS |
| Re: saddam |
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| sofia |
| 03/10/03 at 14:42:32 |
| Peace, I think the question Deke originally asked is pretty much answered. Now, in terms of the politics related to this issue... Overall, can we agree that the US wants to go to war with Iraq because it fears it has nuclear weapons that it will use against the US and/or its allies? Some of us may have different opinions on this (myself, included), but let's go with what the US govt is telling us. So like, why are we spending so much time looking for something that may or may not exist in Iraq, when there are other, non-oil-producing countries like, N. Korea, that is pretty open about having nuclear weapons, even testing it right now despite the US's dissapproval? [url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/03/10/international1216EST0583.DTL] North Korea test-fires missile, says interception of U.S. plane was defensive [/url] Am I missing something here? |
| NS |
| 03/10/03 at 14:46:42 |
| sofia |
| Re: saddam |
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| Tesseract |
| 03/10/03 at 23:20:53 |
| Salaam/hi, [quote]iam for a peaceful solution but how is it done?[/quote] What Can the World Do if the US Attacks Iraq? by Jeremy Brecher If the US attacks Iraq without support of the UN Security Council, will the world be powerless to stop it? The answer is no. Under a procedure called "Uniting for Peace," the UN General Assembly can demand an immediate ceasefire and withdrawal. The global peace movement should consider demanding such an action. When Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal in 1956, Britain, France, and Israel invaded Egypt and began advancing on the Suez Canal. U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower demanded that the invasion stop. Resolutions in the UN Security Council called for a cease-fire - but Britain and France vetoed them. Then the United States appealed to the General Assembly and proposed a resolution calling for a cease-fire and a withdrawal of forces. The General Assembly held an emergency session and passed the resolution. Britain and France withdrew from Egypt within a week. The appeal to the General Assembly was made under a procedure called "Uniting for Peace." This procedure was adopted by the Security Council so that the UN can act even if the Security Council is stalemated by vetoes. Resolution 377 provides that, if there is a "threat to peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression" and the permanent members of the Security Council do not agree on action, the General Assembly can meet immediately and recommend collective measures to U.N. members to "maintain or restore international peace and security." The "Uniting for Peace" mechanism has been used ten times, most frequently on the initiative of the United States. The Bush Administration is currently promoting a Security Council resolution that it claims will authorize it to attack Iraq. However, huge opposition from global public opinion and most of the world's governments make such a resolution's passage unlikely. What will happen if the US withdraws its resolution or the resolution is defeated? The US is currently indicating that it will attack Iraq even without Security Council approval. The US would undoubtedly use its veto should the Security Council attempt to condemn and halt its aggression. But the US has no veto in the General Assembly. Lawyers at the Center for Constitutional Rights (www.ccr-ny.org) have drafted a proposed "Uniting for Peace" resolution that governments can submit to the General Assembly. It declares that military action without a Security Council resolution authorizing such action is contrary to the UN Charter and international law. The global peace movement can begin right now to discuss the value of such a resolution. If we conclude it is worthwhile, we can make it a central demand, for example in the next round of global anti-war demonstrations. Then we can mobilize pressure on governments that claim to oppose the war -- the great majority of UN members -- to demand that they initiate and support such a resolution. Countries opposed to such a war can be asked to state now that, if there is a Security Council deadlock and a US attack on Iraq is imminent or under way, they will convene the General Assembly on an emergency basis to condemn the attack and order the US to cease fire and withdraw. The sooner global public discussion begins laying the groundwork for such action the better. Wide public advocacy will help governments overcome their probable reluctance to take such a step. Further, the threat of such global condemnation may help deter the Bush administration - and to a much greater extent deter its wobbling allies - from launching such an attack in the first place. Prepared by Jeremy Brecher ( jbrecher@igc.org ). Information on Uniting for Peace based on "A U.N. Alternative to War: 'Uniting for Peace'" by Michael Ratner, Center for Constitutional Rights and Jules Lobel, University of Pittsburgh Law School www.ccr- ny.org |
| Re: saddam |
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| deke |
| 03/11/03 at 11:20:23 |
| You have now deviated away from your original question. You are no longer asking about the Isalmic viewpoint on Saddam (which I think has been satisfactoriyl answered), but you are now saying "I think Saddam will do A, B, and C, and for that reason he should be brought down militarily, even if Iraqi civialians who hat ehim have to die". This is a totally fruitless discussion. If u want to learn about Islam, then keep asking. If you just want to argue as a spokesperson for the War machine, we're ALL wasting our time here Others on this board have givin me their thoughts i iam merely talking with them and i say again( iam am not agueing)and iam not a spokesman for a war machine.If you dont like the topic then dont respond. Iam talking to a couple posters at the same time if the subject of discussion gets clouded i cant help that ok. deke |
| Re: saddam |
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| deke |
| 03/11/03 at 11:37:38 |
| So like, why are we spending so much time looking for something that may or may not exist in Iraq, when there are other, non-oil-producing countries like, N. Korea, that is pretty open about having nuclear weapons, even testing it right now despite the US's dissapproval? North Korea test-fires missile, says interception of U.S. plane was defensive Am I missing something here? Well sofia its just my opinion but the iraq issues sufaced 12 years ago and has been a pain in the butt ever since due to saddams non-conpliance and with the turn of events of 9/11.It now the number one issue to take care of,as for north korea rattling the chains for attention am sure its just a ploy to get money from us for their failing communist goverment and the US messing with their weapon buying customers.(Welcome to politics) |
| Re: saddam |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/11/03 at 14:22:13 |
| Very nice of you Deke. You cam here claiming you wanted to know what Islam thinks of the current situation, and end up by being a spokesperson for the war machine, just repating what they are saying. What's your game here ? |
| NS |
| Re: saddam |
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| sofia |
| 03/11/03 at 15:04:03 |
| Guess the irony was lost in my last post. Deke is entitled to ask what we think of Saddam Hussain, and to uphold his prior views on him/war/etc, regardless of what we tell him. Conclusions: -On the topic of religion: Although God is the ultimate Judge, we all seem to agree that Saddam has not been upholding the values a Muslim should have, at least not publically and politically. -On the topic of politics: Some of us believe some govts (esp. those on the brink of war) may have alterior motives, while others seem to believe whatever the US govt and mainstream media tells them. To each his own. Or how we say it: To you be your way, and to me mine [translation of the Qur'aan 109:6]. The truth behind motives (in the political realm) is not always explicit. Rarely ever is, unfortunately. That's mainly why the gradual extinction of analytic, critical thought in this country is such a huge concern for me. Came across this quote recently, the author of which, none of us here endorses: How fortunate for those in power that the people don't think. - Adolf Hitler |
| NS |
| 03/11/03 at 17:34:03 |
| sofia |
| Re: saddam |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 03/11/03 at 19:51:32 |
| Posted by: The humble muslim Posted on: Mar 8th, 2003, 7:10pm AA First and foremost, Deke, the main purpose of this board for non muslims is to try to be educated about ISLAM. We have a number of non muslims on this board who seem to want to talk about nothing but political issues. In general, this leads to big fights without any information about ISLAM per se either being taught or learnt. Hamayoun, where does it say this? the welcome board says that muslims and non muslims are free to comment about articles and I would think that means giving their opinions. Who are the non muslims that want to talk about only political issues? Most of the non muslims who post here are involved in many other parts of the board besides the ummah. I can give you a partial list Dawn Sparrow Caraj and myself (sorry if I missed any one else oh Dude also but he is fairly new oh yeah THE lords handmaiden and the christian girl who wears the hijab who I havene't seen in the ummah part at all) are probably the most active non muslims on here. Which one of us only talk about political issues? And besides through arguements you can learn much, at least I have. Posted by: The humble muslim Posted on: Today at 2:22pm Very nice of you Deke. You cam here claiming you wanted to know what Islam thinks of the current situation, and end up by being a spokesperson for the war machine, just repating what they are saying. What's your game here ? Why is it you have to question someones intentions? what is your game? If you don't like the way someone is asking a question then don't get involved. well, i am back to my self banishment have a great day everyone. mike |
| Re: saddam |
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| jannah |
| 03/11/03 at 20:15:30 |
| [slm] I think the original question about saddam and the islamic view has been answered. If anyone wants to argue about the war please do it in any of the other multiple threads discussing this. However I have to caution us all, as this issue escalates and if the bombs start falling there will be many people on here arguing over this issue. And since we know the Islamic stand on war and most of the Muslim opinion.. (ie against Saddam but also against bombing innocent ppl) .. there doesn't seem to be much point to rehashing it over and over again. Since this is known and has been discussed for months previous don't be surprised if this topic becomes closed in the future. |
| Re: saddam |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/12/03 at 01:59:02 |
| [slm] Deke what are your thoughts on the article below? Banished members are welcome to reply as well. ;) The UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT is the World's Greatest TERRORIST ORGANIZATION http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taliban_info/message/498 |
| 03/12/03 at 02:00:18 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: saddam |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 03/12/03 at 09:44:35 |
| since you asked for my reply, it is another stupid goofball website that i dutifully read because you asked me to (if i had to guess over the last year and a half i must have looked up 200 hundred of these idiotic sites). Where do you get the time to look all this lame stuff up? |
| Re: saddam |
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| Dude |
| 03/12/03 at 11:14:28 |
| [quote]The UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT is the World's Greatest TERRORIST ORGANIZATION[/quote] You should just change your signature profile, so that this appears on every one of your posts. May as well...it seems to be your favorite message. Must be a cricket fan... ;) Mike...just when you thought you were out, he drags you back in, eh? LA Kings bite. ;D |
| Re: saddam |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/13/03 at 02:11:16 |
| Hello Mike, [quote author=mike aka ltcorpest2 link=board=ummah;num=1047145241;start=30#30 date=03/12/03 at 09:44:35]since you asked for my reply, it is another stupid goofball website that i dutifully read because you asked me to (if i had to guess over the last year and a half i must have looked up 200 hundred of these idiotic sites). Where do you get the time to look all this lame stuff up?[/quote] I know that your post displays the type of analysis and caliber that we have come to expect from your posts, but I was wondering if you could maybe explain more by what you mean and why do you feel this way. Also share with us your thoughts on the US government if you disagree with the article. |
| Re: saddam |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 03/13/03 at 11:56:06 |
| In fact, it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility that the U.S. military/government itself carried out the attacks. It has the technological ability to guide large jet aircraft by remote control. And as history makes abundantly clear, it has more than enough genocidal ruthlessness. Then there is the criminal insider trading that took place before September 11, which provides strong circumstantial evidence that wealthy individuals allied with the CIA had prior knowledge of the World Trade Center attack — and actually profitted from it. But above all, the U.S. military/government had the motive. I know that your post displays the type of analysis and caliber that we have come to expect from your posts, but I was wondering if you could maybe explain more by what you mean and why do you feel this way. Also share with us your thoughts on the US government if you disagree with the article. For those smart enough not to open the website Bhaloo wanted everyone to comment on i inserted a peice of it above. So it was the us gov guiding the planes by remote control, hmmm i wonder why none of those people who left messages to their loved ones or who talked to emergency operators mentioned that the planes were being hijacked by remote control and that the pilots and the stewardess' throats that were slit were done by remote also. Now again you aksed me a question about what I mean and why I feel this way. I will give you an example: When I talk with my 3 year old son about why he cannot have something my conversation is on a very limited intellectual level. When someone posts a website that is on par with a 3 year old level I feel like I have to respond on that level. Also, one last thing, Who is the "we" that you mentioned? Is that you or the adminsitration or are you talking about everyone, about what they expect from my posts? I'll bet there are some on here that like my posts and think they are insightful even though they do not agree with anything I say. |
| Re: saddam |
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| deke |
| 03/13/03 at 17:48:12 |
| Deke what are your thoughts on the article below? Banished members are welcome to reply as well its a persons opinion of select portions of americas history most of it probably true............................a bit long winded, all countries have skeletons in their closets ALL. |
| Re: saddam |
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| Dude |
| 03/14/03 at 19:09:55 |
| [quote]Hello Mike, on Mar 12th, 2003, 7:44am, mike aka ltcorpest2 wrote:since you asked for my reply, it is another stupid goofball website that i dutifully read because you asked me to (if i had to guess over the last year and a half i must have looked up 200 hundred of these idiotic sites). Where do you get the time to look all this lame stuff up? I know that your post displays the type of analysis and caliber that we have come to expect from your posts, but I was wondering if you could maybe explain more by what you mean and why do you feel this way. Also share with us your thoughts on the US government if you disagree with the article. [/quote] [quote]Now again you aksed me a question about what I mean and why I feel this way. I will give you an example: When I talk with my 3 year old son about why he cannot have something my conversation is on a very limited intellectual level. When someone posts a website that is on par with a 3 year old level I feel like I have to respond on that level. [/quote] Good stuff lads! ;D EDITED BY ADMIN: DO NOT INSULT OTHER USERS. But he's got a good sense of humor, and can banter. I just hope he doesn't move to my neighborhood. :o |
| 03/14/03 at 21:12:24 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: saddam |
|---|
| ltcorpest2 |
| 03/14/03 at 19:23:07 |
| Dude, I never called him a goofball, just the sites he cites, I have no idea what or how he is in real life, we dont live that far apart and I have asked him to lunch a couple of times in the past but he hasn't acknowldedged it yet (maybe he was busy looking up new sites , i have no idea) because I try to give poeple the benefit of the doubt. Of course I am the one that is considered to be predjudiced. |
| Re: saddam |
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| Dude |
| 03/14/03 at 19:42:57 |
| Wait a second…Blahoo is a Yank? A Californian Yank, at that? Wow. He must be busy packing his bags…that’s why he hasn’t had lunch with you. Anyone who clearly hates the United States that much, hates living in a dictatorship, and living in a country ruled by a terrorist must be chomping at the bit to get out. Don’t move up here Blahoo…Canada is a dictatorship too, and we don’t have any freedoms either. You’d hate it here… Dude-hopingblahoodoesn’tmovetohisneighbourhood. |
| 03/14/03 at 19:43:45 |
| Dude |
| Re: saddam |
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| safa |
| 03/14/03 at 19:49:43 |
| [quote]EDITED BY ADMIN [/quote] [quote]Wait a second…Blahoo is a Yank? A Californian Yank, at that? Wow. He must be busy packing his bags…that’s why he hasn’t had lunch with you. Anyone who clearly hates the United States that much, hates living in a dictatorship, and living in a country ruled by a terrorist must be chomping at the bit to get out. Don’t move up here Blahoo…Canada is a dictatorship too, and we don’t have any freedoms either. You’d hate it here… Dude-hopingblahoodoesn’tmovetohisneighbourhood. [/quote] You really need 2 do somwthing about your attitude, Dude. Give a lil respect to people even if you don't necessarily agree with them. >:( >:( :( |
| 03/14/03 at 20:20:21 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: saddam |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 03/14/03 at 20:42:05 |
| Safa, Maybe look at bhalooo's posts and see how much respect he gives< he doesn't give any except t o call names. But of course Dude is absolutely right. Muslims will give another muslim a lot of rope but if will be very quick to point out a kaffirs shortcomings. |
| Re: saddam |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/14/03 at 21:05:15 |
| [quote author=mike aka ltcorpest2 link=board=ummah;num=1047145241;start=30#36 date=03/14/03 at 19:23:07]Dude, I never called him a goofball, just the sites he cites, I have no idea what or how he is in real life, we dont live that far apart and I have asked him to lunch a couple of times in the past but he hasn't acknowldedged it yet (maybe he was busy looking up new sites , i have no idea) [/quote] Maybe I can help you solve the "i have no idea" part, but perhaps your private message to me where you called me "a gutless puke" (do people actually use these phrases?) might give you some idea. Usually those type of phrases are not going to get you a lunch date with me, it might work with a 3 year old though. :) |
| 03/14/03 at 21:08:50 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: saddam |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 03/14/03 at 21:53:09 |
| was that after you compared my beliefs to a mass murderer, lied about me asked for me to prove something and then deleted the information when it was presented and then insulted me many many times make more insults and then delete some more? yes it was. I wonder from some other muslims, does lying and deceit and slander go hand in hand with Islam, I know some private messages were sent my way in regards to what Bhaloo did, but muslims really dont want to confront a brother it seems. |
| Re: saddam |
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| panjul |
| 03/14/03 at 23:19:45 |
| [slm] Guys, what's this fighting about? I missed it. hey bhaloo, why don't you take him up on his offer to have lunch? That would be interesting, don't you think so? Maybe u guys will end up becoming best friends. You never know. :) Seriously. Mabye I have always wanted to meet the people on this board. Espeically the ones that i have had fights or huge disagreements with to see how they are in actual life. There'a huge difference in how people will act on the internet and on the web. Mike and Dude- you two have been the first non-muslims that i can think of that have debated on the politics that interest/affect muslims a lot more than any other non-muslim that's come to the board seeking to learn more about the Muslims. Not that it's wrong. What interests you guys more, the politics revolving around Muslims or the religion Islam? Why? well, to veer back to the topic it wasn't right bhaloo if you called him a mass murderer. and mike, it wasn't very nice to call him a gutless puke. |
| Re: saddam |
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| jannah |
| 03/15/03 at 00:54:23 |
| Well I think the original topic in this thread has been answered. (Wow deja vu eh) As for any personal arguments please take them offline. And please don't bring offline arguments back into the public forums. [Definition of Offline so I don't have to keep explaining: Email, Private Message, etc.] In an interesting note all these threads keep closing because arguments keep degenerating into personal insults. So let's try something new: First person to insult another in a thread will not be allowed to post in the thread again. |
| 03/15/03 at 00:55:55 |
| jannah |
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board |