A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| Red |
| 03/21/03 at 16:18:11 |
| [slm] everyone, Ugh....you guys i am starting to really fall for all this US propaganda, that they are trying to "liberate" Iraq from Saddam Hussein and nuclear weapons. I don't know why they never did it before if they were trying to "liberate"? What do you guys suppose will happen now? Its clear that the US might be successful. What does this mean for the Iraqi people and what will happen? I guess the second question can only be known by Allah subhanwatallah. But, if you have read the new any, even a wee bit, they are suggesting they have already won the war basically, and the News folks are all talking now about what will happen with post war iraq. confused and sad red :( |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 03/21/03 at 18:11:59 |
| i give it about 5 days at the most. They were interviewing people at an Iraqi center here in so calif and for some reason while they are sad that there is war in their country they are grateful for the us going in. I pray for the iraqis safety and hope that they get good leadership, because Iraq can be a great country with the right leaders. |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/21/03 at 23:08:00 |
| [slm] The war will not be over in 5 days. The United States is there to stay for a long time to steal Muslim oil in Iraq and pretend to rebuild the country. I was reading an article by a senior military person that advises the pentagon on what course of action to do. He is coming out with a book for the American public. He talks about a "global economy" and how there are many problematic spots in the world (basically all the Muslim countries) and how the United States needs to go to war and stay at war to make the world a global economy and "liberate" people. This is pure terrorism, genocide, and racism. It is the United States that put these evil dictators into power, after all they are the ones that put Saddam Hussein into power as has been shown here many times. |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 03/21/03 at 23:16:03 |
| it has been shown but is not the truth |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| panjul |
| 03/21/03 at 23:49:15 |
| Buy this video, I watched it on PBS. It showed how the CIA helped Hussein topple the dictator (his name escapes me) and helped him assasinate him. Then he became the dictator. Obviously you won't take my word for it. And if you don't buy it to see for yourself, then you should not say that proof wasn't given to you. Oh yeah, and the source cited for the CIA link to Hussein was a govt. declassifed document. You may want to look at it in a library. http://www.shop.pbs.org/cust/cdeploy?ecaction=ecwalkin&template=shoppbs/products/ecproditemview.en.html&sku=FRL92007 |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/22/03 at 00:08:15 |
| Why don't you explain to us what you feel is the truth? How do you respond to these articles and the video tape Panjul has brought up, where is your proof? Of course it is the truth. So many articles after articles showing consistantly that the United States put Saddam Hussein into power and supplied him with chemical/biological weapons. Eric Magorlis, foreign correspondent from the Toronto Sun says: Iraq, 1975 - The U.S. helps young Saddam Hussein seize power. In 1979, the U.S. encourages Saddam to invade Iran in an effort to crush Iran's Islamic revolution. Some 700,000 die in the war. The Sunday Herald reported that the United States and Britain sold Iraq their biological weapons (an archive of the article is located here): http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm Here's another article citing some of the reasons (basically criminal activities) people in the middle east hate the United States: http://www.zmag.org/shalomhate.htm |
| 03/22/03 at 00:09:35 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| Red |
| 03/22/03 at 10:37:47 |
| [slm], Yeah thats exactly my problem, i don't understand how nobody can see it except so few, that the US government is the one who put the evil dicator in clearly, they put sanctions on a county that already has nothing. They starve millions of people and more, than what do you expect? of course lots of Iraqi soliders and other people are going to give in they starving to death and have nothing. They bombard the country killing and hurting more, than later they say we have brought freedom and liberty to a country. More than anything i am just plain scared of whats to come after all this mess. |
| 03/22/03 at 10:38:13 |
| Red |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| deke |
| 03/22/03 at 13:26:52 |
| I find it funny when we americans read or hear some information about the war,saddam,terrorist ect and comment on this message board.And you say without fail every time ohhhhhhhhh thats propaganda dont beliveve every thing you read or see on cnn,but i see you muslims post artical after artical about the US and its policies claiming them to be true or assuming them to be be true you are right and we are wrong.Well after coming on here a couple weeks ago for help on some questions i asked some and responded to some and just read alot.My conclusion is that nobody has or will take responsiablilty for anything, i think both sides have there faults and are not willing to admit it. And i for one believe with this world we are stuck on together when another saddam sticks his head out of his hole to threaten and deceive the world for his own gains or attention SOMEBODY WILL STOP HIM, because if left unstopped who knows what will happen. this world you all wish for cant happen, why because its human nature to fight and have wars some based soley on religion not policy.It would take a massive effort to acheieve that and i dont think the people of the world would envest the time to do it because then every person would say how the world should be and then another would say no it needs to be this way ans wow guess where we are again (FIGHTING). |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 03/22/03 at 13:31:18 |
| actually i admit to my faults. |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| deke |
| 03/22/03 at 13:38:45 |
| Of course it is the truth. So many articles after articles showing consistantly that the United States put Saddam Hussein into power and supplied him with chemical/biological weapons BLAH BLAH BLAH and we found out he was a mental patient he was a mistake.....................iam sure the US didnt tell him to threaten the world and use WMD on his people and neighbors,He manufactured the chemicals and agents on his own. |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| deke |
| 03/22/03 at 13:41:18 |
| The war will not be over in 5 days. The United States is there to stay for a long time to steal Muslim oil in Iraq and pretend to rebuild the country. nice attitude.............. |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| yunus |
| 03/22/03 at 16:44:53 |
| The united states government is a terrorist orginization it has never liberated anyone at home or abroad. This system is evil and we need to shut it down nonviolently so we can bring justice to the world people need to take part in nonviolent Civil disobediance and direct action in oposition to this war. I hope Allah curses this governement and Bush Blair Sharon burn in hell |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 03/22/03 at 17:18:29 |
| Yunus, I am from lithuania, and i feel that in large part the United States liberated us from the soviet union. I also feel if not for the usa france would no longer exist and neither would england, and many other. So please, be realistic even if you are upset. While many iraqis consider them invaders, many of them are cheering the arrival of the united states also. |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/22/03 at 19:37:54 |
| [slm] [quote] I find it funny when we americans read or hear some information about the war,saddam,terrorist ect and comment on this message board.And you say without fail every time ohhhhhhhhh thats propaganda dont beliveve every thing you read or see on cnn,but i see you muslims post artical after artical about the US and its policies claiming them to be true or assuming them to be be true you are right and we are wrong.Well after coming on here a couple weeks ago for help on some questions i asked some and responded to some and just read alot.My conclusion is that nobody has or will take responsiablilty for anything, i think both sides have there faults and are not willing to admit it. [/quote] Your certainly welcome to provide your evidence to counter anything I put up. I've yet to see anything and certainly welcome a good challenge. :) Just make sure its a response and not some emotional response, because that serves no purpose. I remember sometime back asking for proof if Osama Bin Laddin did 9/11 (i hadn't followed news reports for some time) and someone put up some article where OBL praised the hijackers, BUT didn't admit to doing it. So the article was kind of a waste and didn't answer the question. Honestly I don't know if he did it or didn't and personally don't care, but what I'm interested in is the truth. When someone says something like, "it has been shown but is not the truth " this is no proof and there is no information to back up this view, so it is a waste of time. [quote] While many iraqis consider them invaders, many of them are cheering the arrival of the united states also. [/quote] How about the half a million iraqi children that lost their lives dues to sanctions by the US? Are they cheering? Or how about the Iraqi child they showed on TV (al-Jazeerah) that had the back of his head blown off? Is this the kind of liberation your are talking about? [quote] this world you all wish for cant happen, why because its human nature to fight and have wars some based soley on religion not policy.It would take a massive effort to acheieve that and i dont think the people of the world would envest the time to do it because then every person would say how the world should be and then another would say no it needs to be this way ans wow guess where we are again (FIGHTING). [/quote] The key for success is Islam. Returning to the teachings of Islam. There's an excellent video put out by PBS made by some non-Muslims called: Islam: Empire of Faith. It was very impressive and showed how Islam spread through lmost of the whole world and spread in a peaceful manner. I was very impressed that some non-Muslims put it together. |
| 03/22/03 at 19:44:23 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| Dude |
| 03/22/03 at 20:44:27 |
| Mike, I admire you’re patriotism, but the reference towards the Second World War is pure Hollywoodism. If you want to thank any single country for their continued effort against the Germans, look no further than Russia, then England, and please add in Canada before tooting the US horn. Russia suffered by far the greatest casualties in WWII. Churchill will go down as possibly the greatest leader in the 20th Century. Canada sent her troops to Europe right from Day 1. The US was the final piece of the Allied puzzle to help turn the tide of the German War machine, but the US was also disgraceful in its non-committal stance up until Pear Harbor. To say France & England would not exist if it weren’t for the US is completely misleading. Many other countries were in the fight from the first salvo. The American contribution helped, certainly, but they weren’t the real heroes of WWII. Anyhow, Yunus, with regards to this: [quote]I hope Allah curses this governement and Bush Blair Sharon burn in hell [/quote] What about Saddam Hussein? Should he be exempt from your cursed group because he professes to be Muslim? Give your head a shake, lad. |
| 03/22/03 at 20:45:29 |
| Dude |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| panjul |
| 03/22/03 at 21:54:16 |
| [slm] I also feel if not for the usa france would no longer exist and neither would england, and many other. I agree with that to a certain degree. Had the U.S. not entered WWII when it did Germany would have taken over England completely. But remember there was Russia who fought in Eastern Europe virtually alone and forced them to retreat. However soon after Germany retreated the Soviet Union claimed many of Eastern Europe for itself. But even if Germany had not retreated the French and the British would have been able to drive them out albeit after a few years becuase a small country devastated by the war with sanctions from the United States would not have been able to control the European continent for long for lack of resources. The Japanese could not have provided the raw sources either cuz the U.S had them under sanctions as well. That's of cource befor the US entered WWII. add in Canada before tooting the US horn. I think that's unfair. :) Honestly it has nothing to do with the fact that a Canadian undermined the US effort in WWII, :) US provided so much *FREE* supplies of warfare as well as *cash* to England for it to be able to fight Germany before it entered WWII. But had it not been for the French helping the Americans against the British during the American Revolution, i wonder how much later the United States would have emerged. |
| 03/22/03 at 21:58:16 |
| panjul |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/22/03 at 22:40:24 |
| [slm] I have to agree that the Russians were one of the major keys to an Allied force victory. Those Russian winters have been devastating to any force that wants to invade. Hitler's mistake was to attack Russia. The Japanese could have eliminated any threat from America had they continued their attack during Pearl Harbor. [quote author=panjul link=board=ummah;num=1048281491;start=15#15 date=03/22/03 at 21:54:16] But had it not been for the French helping the Americans against the British during the American Revolution, i wonder how much later the United States would have emerged. [/quote] And the movie the Patriot (starring Mel Gibson) confirms this. :D |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| Dude |
| 03/23/03 at 03:23:51 |
| All Canada did was provide 6 years and 100% commitment to fighting the biggest war this world has ever and will ever see. Canada didn't undermine anyone’s effort in WWII. You Yanks, on the other hand, continue to undermine others...how many freaking war movies do we need to see where the producer puts a decidedly "The US Saved the World" spin? Your government took a cowardly stance up until their hand was forced. I especially love how you take a shot at France, every opportunity. If anything, the French were fighters and survivors. Their stance now, in this conflict, is absolutely disgusting, but it has nothing to do with WWII. Having just spent two days in Portland at a Yank trade show, I can tell you the privilege I felt to be witness to the US propaganda is in full swing. It really is shocking how truly uneducated the Yanks (right down to local media) are about all the issues. One of my colleagues, a former naval officer whom I have the utmost respect for, actually said to me that he was happy Canada is standing by their side. He was a little sheepish when I filled him in that only three countries were in the “Allied Coalition”. I’ve been firmly on the fence regarding this particular conflict for some time now. I’m 100% supportive of having Saddam Hussein removed from power, for obvious reasons. I also think the Yanks and Puppets (Brits & Aussies) arbitrarily deciding to swat a fly with a machine gun is asinine. I am supportive of a UN resolution, achieved through popular majority vote. If that is a series of deadlines before military action, it would still be better than this. I think negotiation / threats deserved a better shot, with all the UN on one page. I’m also sick of US media continuing to deny the oil issue isn’t relevant. Of course it is. I heard a great analogy the other day…if my country was 100% dependant of peanuts bought from Bhaloo’s country, and Bhaloo decided not to sell me peanuts anymore, I’d force my way in to get the peanuts. There would be conflict. Having said that, the French and German motivations are disgustingly transparent. I’m not anti Yank by any means, but for the far right-wingers there to continue to deny the obvious (oil motivation, and political motivation for Bush…war is a nice distraction from a bombing economy…no pun intended), is laughable. Got to go to bed now. More tomorrow. Let’s hope this war is swift in its purpose, and the bombs stop dropping as soon as possible. God help the innocent. |
| 03/23/03 at 03:26:50 |
| Dude |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| deke |
| 03/23/03 at 17:11:00 |
| Your certainly welcome to provide your evidence to counter anything I put up. I've yet to see anything and certainly welcome a good challenge. http://www.iraqwatch.org/perspectives/index.html#CIJ a wealth of info, please read steven hughs articals saddam-bin ladan connection.Most you will see bin ladans use of the islamic faith as motivation for attacks.Now this is not meant to be mean to anybody but info from other sources. its my opinion that true peaceful people of islam would be royally upset that a self proclaimed follower of the koran,quoting and using it as motivation for terrorist attacks.Why are you not standing up and speaking out against this guy and his cohorts to vindicate your religon.(i dont see peaceful islamic people defending the correct use of the koran) |
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| deke |
| 03/23/03 at 17:42:29 |
| How about the half a million iraqi children that lost their lives dues to sanctions by the US? Are they cheering? Or how about the Iraqi child they showed on TV (al-Jazeerah) that had the back of his head blown off? Is this the kind of liberation your are talking about? All of which could have been saved or even attempted to saved by saddam himself he had the resourses but funneled it all to his war machine, and he chose to let the children die so its would be blamed on the US. Who shot the child? (proof) i wouldnt put that past saddams killers. you just watch what saddams regime does towards the end to discredit the US. |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/23/03 at 20:21:14 |
| [quote author=deke link=board=ummah;num=1048281491;start=15#19 date=03/23/03 at 17:42:29]All of which could have been saved or even attempted to saved by saddam himself he had the resourses but funneled it all to his war machine, and he chose to let the children die so its would be blamed on the US. [/quote] Here is a detailed article with references that refutes your claim. The sanctions were responsible for killing so many Iraqis. Yes Saddam Hussein is a criminal but the US government is on the same level or worse. http://www.mediamonitors.net/mosaddeq17.html You might not remember this but most Muslims here remember this on 60 Minutes in 1996 when US Secretary of State Madeline Albright was asked if it was worth it (the sanctions) that have caused the lives of 600,000 Iraqi CHILDREN. She said YES. That is clear proof on 60 minutes to her admitting to this crime against humanity. [quote] Who shot the child? (proof) i wouldnt put that past saddams killers. [/quote] In the picture (the video was shown on al-jazeerah TV) the child is in a building that was the target of a bomb. There's other pictures there of people being killed by US bombs (the URL that Bro. Hanif provided). [quote] you just watch what saddams regime does towards the end to discredit the US.[/quote] it sounds like you will never admit to the US doing war crimes even when proof is shown to you, you seem to think the US can do no wrong? have you seen the millions of people protesting around the world against the US? why do you think that is, think about it. as for you other article, I'll take a look at it, its a bit lengthy, so it might take me some time to go through it, but there are some points you should be aware of. - I've heard on several news sources that OBL called Sadam Hussein an "infidel" (at least that's how it was translated in English). And the article you sent at least on the first few pages mentions this. - From what I have read of OBL, he just wants the United States out of Muslim lands (basically take their military bases out of our countries) and wants "israel" to return the land they stole from Muslims, all of it. And he would also like to see the Muslim countries have leaders that rule according to Islam. I would like to see this also, as would all Muslims. But something like this isn't going to start happening until the Muslims start to practice Islam, read the Quran, understand it, pray, take care of the orphans, do good deeds, pay charity, have good relations with their neighbors, etc. |
| 03/23/03 at 20:21:48 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| Dude |
| 03/23/03 at 22:31:25 |
| [quote]Here is a detailed article with references that refutes your claim. The sanctions were responsible for killing so many Iraqis. Yes Saddam Hussein is a criminal but the US government is on the same level or worse. You might not remember this but most Muslims here remember this on 60 Minutes in 1996 when US Secretary of State Madeline Albright...[/quote] OK...let's try keeping this real for a while, and not get caught up in outlandish statements. You can't compare the criminal acts of Hussein vs. the US Government. Sanctions were applied because of Hussein and his policy. Hussein gassed and tortured his own people (Kurds & Shiite Muslims). Action, reaction. In all this, Hussein has had the power to affect change by making the right choices for his people, but he has continued to deny them. As for Albright- that interview is (in)famous now, but most do try to distance themselves from her statements because they don't agree with her stance or opinion...which is exactly what it is. You can say whatever you'd like about the US, it's policies, and the effect of its policies, but the US Government has not partaken in the mass murders of its own. Bhaloo, what I'm saying is that you sometimes bring up some good points, but you lose all credibility when you make outrageous statements, and ignore the indisputable, heinous acts being committed on the other side. You come across as someone defending the Iraqi regime, which I'm pretty sure you don't |
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| deke |
| 03/23/03 at 23:12:38 |
| Dude thanks i wasnt sure how to express my thoughts then i read your post and wow there they were. OK...let's try keeping this real for a while, and not get caught up in outlandish statements. You can't compare the criminal acts of Hussein vs. the US Government. Sanctions were applied because of Hussein and his policy. Hussein gassed and tortured his own people (Kurds & Shiite Muslims). Action, reaction. In all this, Hussein has had the power to affect change by making the right choices for his people, but he has continued to deny them. As for Albright- that interview is (in)famous now, but most do try to distance themselves from her statements because they don't agree with her stance or opinion...which is exactly what it is. You can say whatever you'd like about the US, it's policies, and the effect of its policies, but the US Government has not partaken in the mass murders of its own. I know this war is not very popular world wide and never is but saddam gave nobody any choice, its my opinion he wishes to go down in the history books based on this link. http://www.iraqwatch.org/perspectives/bowden-saddam.htm He just holds all his ideals above everything including his people,He is a megalomaniac. Here is a detailed article with references that refutes your claim. The sanctions were responsible for killing so many Iraqis. Yes Saddam Hussein is a criminal but the US government is on the same level or worse. My point is that saddam could have helped that whole situation by agreeing to the sanctions that is why they were emposed,and he said no thus telling all those children no.He used the people of iraq as ponds in his sick game to defy the sanctions. |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| deke |
| 03/24/03 at 00:00:04 |
| In the picture (the video was shown on al-jazeerah TV) the child is in a building that was the target of a bomb. There's other pictures there of people being killed by US bombs (the URL that Bro. Hanif provided). sorry i know its a terriable picture and no child should suffer that fate,but is a picture that a eastern web site can lable it anything it wishes as well as all the others.And you know as well as i do saddam put his people in dangerous positions(human sheilds) just to use the pictures as propaganda iam positive the US didnt kill these people on purpose,thats the difference.And saddams regime is using these tactics in this campaign.When saddam gassed his own people why is nobody now holding him responsiable, and all the atrosities he has commited his whole 30 year reign i for the life of me cant fiqure out why the people of the world are so against getting him out of power.All i can guess is that todays mentality is all passive turn the other cheek thinking,and they just dont like war hell nobody does ok but do you think saddam was going to leave if we just asked.No he didnt instead he kicked around in the dirt for 12 years defying all the sanctions and played games with all the resolutions and still givin 48 more hours to do the right thing for his people,he chose to stay and fight it out and not really him but the people of iraq to do the fighting for him.Ill bet that 95% of them dont even want to fight for him but have no choice out of fear they will be killed if they dont.The protesters confuse me. Now iam not saying US is perfect i never did but givin the curcumstances rules have to be bent.Our enemies use our ideals against us. examples: the freedom inside the US to come and go as you please. well that is all but gone now after 9/11 the terrorist used that loophole. racial profiling: we cant do that,but hey after 9/11 iam all for it, the terrorist forced the use of racial profiling we cant take any chances anymore. shooting woman or children:we never have and never will on purpose, well now we have certain bad guys using them as sheilds so if in the event one does get killed its a tool to use against the US. |
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| panjul |
| 03/24/03 at 00:20:17 |
| but is a picture that a eastern web site can lable it anything it wishes as well as all the others. Wow... that right there to me speaks of your racism against "eastern" people. So because it's a eastern site, those dirty, heathen arabs are going to use propaganda because they like Sadam Hussein. You have not said those exact things but you sure imply that. You sicken me. I have had disagreed with Dude and Mike but one thing is for sure. They don't come across as racists. I was reading a book by an Arab Christian written about how westerners and western Christians view the Muslims and Arabs..... i can't recall the name of it at this point but i will put it up as soon as i have the time. The things he says in there are very true and I know i have experienced many of those misconceptions and racist views before. He points out with evidence that this racist view of Muslims and Arabs started with the Crusades and how many of the church clergy wrote lies about the Muslims and Arabs to to inculcate hatred in the christian soldiers hearts.... and those writings became the basics for many of the future orientalist writers...... I have come across many racist statements and remarks, but this is the first one that since the source is 'eastern,' it must be propaganda and lies. 'western' source good, 'eastern' source bad. The book also talked about that. |
| 03/24/03 at 00:23:08 |
| panjul |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/24/03 at 10:11:24 |
| [quote author=Dude link=board=ummah;num=1048281491;start=15#21 date=03/23/03 at 22:31:25] OK...let's try keeping this real for a while, and not get caught up in outlandish statements. You can't compare the criminal acts of Hussein vs. the US Government. [/quote] Yes I can. Sure Saddam killed his own people, but the US government kills people all around the world, all in the name of trying to accumulate wealth. You yourself admitted that with your peanut farm story. It doesn't serve the US interest to kill its own people (at least not yet, Saddam does it to silence any opposition). [quote] Sanctions were applied because of Hussein and his policy. Hussein gassed and tortured his own people (Kurds & Shiite Muslims). Action, reaction. [/quote] No. Why do you make your information up? The official statement was that Saddam invaded Kuwait so thats why sanctions were put on him. No one gave a damn when he gassed his own people. And it is well known that the US even gave him the green light to attack, I forget the ambassador's name that had full knowledge of this. That was the official statement. But the truth is America wanted Iraqi oil, and they achieved that. They got Saudi Arabia and Kuwait to pay for the war, and they got use of Iraqi oil in a so called "food for oil" program. And this is what brought america out of a recession. America is a war-time economy. Look at every war in the last 100 years, Amercia was in a depression/recession before entering a war, and it took the war to get them out of it. [quote] In all this, Hussein has had the power to affect change by making the right choices for his people, but he has continued to deny them. [/quote] Why don't you educate us on how he was able to do this? Before the gulf war and the sanctions the IRaqi standard of living was 50 times that of what it was. Imagine taking your salary and divide it by 50 and trying to survive on that. [quote] As for Albright- that interview is (in)famous now, but most do try to distance themselves from her statements because they don't agree with her stance or opinion...which is exactly what it is. [/quote] No, its more then an opinion, she was the United States Secretary of State at the time and her policies reflected this view. [quote] You come across as someone defending the Iraqi regime, which I'm pretty sure you don't [/quote] What part of "Saddam Hussein is a criminal" in my last post did you not understand? The thing is this, most Americans are completely ignorant about the world they live in. They think that America is this great country with noble values, and is a peaceful country. They have controlled the masses through the media to believe this. The fact is they are causing havoc throughout the world, going after oil and riches in other countries. And they are doing long term planning to achieve these goals. THe Moron Majority is a good article about Americans: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=127&e=15&u=/ucru/the_moron_majority |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| deke |
| 03/24/03 at 11:14:24 |
| Wow... that right there to me speaks of your racism against "eastern" people. ooooookkkkkkkk make all the assumptions you wish painful break out the racist card whenever it is convenient. Iam going to say this only once ok( i am not a racist person) |
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| Dude |
| 03/24/03 at 11:15:29 |
| [quote]Sanctions were applied because of Hussein and his policy. Hussein gassed and tortured his own people (Kurds & Shiite Muslims). Action, reaction. [/quote] Follow the timeline, Bhaloo. Saddam is the primary reason the people of Iraq suffer. If you have trouble considering that, consider this: Canada is actually the #1 oil supplier to the US. You don't believe it? Look it up. We seem to get along pretty well, don't we? Deke: the racist card is always the first to be broken out around here- get used to it. I was told by someone, within my first 5 posts, that I was righteous in my whiteness, and I was the racist. Pretty rich stuff. Just so everyone is clear: difference of opinion does not equal racism, or even prejudice. There is a big difference, and one needs to be extremely careful before throwing around the "R" word. There is such a thing as reverse racism too, but you haven't seen me throw that one out- even though us righteous white guys are in the minority. |
| 03/24/03 at 11:23:59 |
| Dude |
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| deke |
| 03/24/03 at 11:26:16 |
| its my opinion that true peaceful people of islam would be royally upset that a self proclaimed follower of the koran,quoting and using it as motivation for terrorist attacks.Why are you not standing up and speaking out against this guy and his cohorts to vindicate your religon.(i dont see peaceful islamic people defending the correct use of the koran) Can anyone answer this question? |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/24/03 at 11:56:43 |
| AA Deke, your last questioned has been answered on this board a zillion times. But it's obvious that you only look for things which suit your point of view. Since you have come onto this board, Deke, you claim that you are looking for dialog. When we attempt to give you dialog, your attitude is "I don't agree, and here is my biased pro-USA point of view". I really think it is USELESS to watse our time arguing with the likes of Deke. It's obvious he's here simply to push forward his opinion no matter what we say. And if he does not like the response, he goes down to irrational arguments (i.e saying that Eastern TV stations are lying) and even insulting others (I belive I was one of the intented reipients of such an insult). This is the last time I am going to reply to you. |
| NS |
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| deke |
| 03/24/03 at 12:24:18 |
| and even insulting others (I belive I was one of the intented reipients of such an insult). ??????????????????????? This is the last time I am going to reply to you. good |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 03/24/03 at 12:32:20 |
Deke, your last questioned has been answered on this board a zillion times. But it's obvious that you only look for things which suit your point of view. Since you have come onto this board, Deke, you claim that you are looking for dialog. When we attempt to give you dialog, your attitude is "I don't agree, and here is my biased pro-USA point of view". I really think it is USELESS to watse our time arguing with the likes of Deke. It's obvious he's here simply to push forward his opinion no matter what we say. And if he does not like the response, he goes down to irrational arguments (i.e saying that Eastern TV stations are lying) and even insulting others (I belive I was one of the intented reipients of such an insult). This is the last time I am going to reply to you. hamayou, that is what makes free dialogue great, you do not have to respond to anyone or anything. Why cant someone give their point of view if it is different than yours? Hamayoun, i have been insulted many times on here , but i have never seen you responding to a muslim insulting someone taht is a kaffir. why is that? maybe when a muslim insults someone who is not a muslim it is not recognized as an insult? The likes of deke, isn't that a hugely predjudiced statement? Posted by: panjul Posted on: Today at 12:20am but is a picture that a eastern web site can lable it anything it wishes as well as all the others. Wow... that right there to me speaks of your racism against "eastern" people. So because it's a eastern site, those dirty, heathen arabs are going to use propaganda because they like Sadam Hussein. You have not said those exact things but you sure imply that. You sicken me. I have had disagreed with Dude and Mike but one thing is for sure. They don't come across as racists. Deke may or not be racist, but there are a lot of implications by what people say here against others also, Bhaloo said most Americans are completely ignorant of the world they live in, Isnt that racist? Americans compared to who? the "eastern " people (to use a borrowed term with no insult implied since i would be considered easthern european). Most people are ignorant to others cultures and way of life. I keep being told that i am ignorant or that i only listen and believe what the american press tells me although i have been on here for a year and a half and have dutifully looked up hundreds of websites when asked of me to learn of all sides. |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 03/24/03 at 12:36:05 |
| oh and one more thing, i plan on figuring out how to properly use the quoting thing by my 5th anniversary here. what is worse i bought an apple comuter at home because everyone told me how easy they are to use and i cant even drag and drop with it, so i cant even drag and drop quotes at home anymore. and i am too afraid to ask how to quote again because it has been explained a few times to me and i still cant figure it out. |
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| Red |
| 03/24/03 at 13:01:15 |
| Salam to all, I feel really bad for starting up a thread that turned in something i really did not intend. It must have the word "propaganda" i used. I believe things are getting out of hand now, it seems we can never talk about these issues because people misunderstand each other too much. red |
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| Dude |
| 03/24/03 at 13:25:57 |
| Off topic: Why feel bad? Really, its just discussion. Yes, it gets lively, and sometimes insulting, but that's what makes it all fun! Debate is fun. Also, it should be noted that this is one of the better threads for sticking on topic, and for having no posts edited or deleted. The mods are usually a little quick to start editing people's posts around here. Nothing wrong with a bit of banter...all in good fun. Besides, if you check out all the other topics in the Ummah Community Center, most are all posts of news articles, but no contribution of opinion. In fact, way too many. EDITED BY ADMIN FOR INSULTING A USER Dude you no longer can post in this thread, this is a warning. |
| 03/25/03 at 00:13:49 |
| bhaloo |
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| zomorrud |
| 03/24/03 at 13:39:53 |
| [color=blue] bismillah.. assalamu alaikum - [i]peace be on to you [/i] to all the self-proclaimed political analysts here... educate .... don't alienate mobilize .... don't demoralize another thing, although venting and letting out steam on this board -[i]especially in the community centre[/i]-can be theraputic to some, it will be damaging to others and may be inciteful of retaliotary remarks. a far better short term solution for anger problems is having a punching sac nearby. a long term solution is to train yourself to accept that others don't think like you and actually have their own logic, however twistedly-appearing to you. rather than pounding your own version's of facts into someones head, go and do something more useful. write to your local paper, knit, i don't know - just get away from your computer for a while. take care [/color] |
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| jannah |
| 03/24/03 at 13:44:30 |
| [slm] I don't understand how people are accusing each other of "insulting". We have rules on this message board. If you feel someone has insulted you, you need to come to us (the admins and mods) and tell us. Not complain about it in a later thread. As for propoganda, in war there will always be propoganda. (It is of course part of war strategy.) However this war is unique in that there is a huge amount of independent media covering it, from outside and inside Iraq which is unprecedented. In previous times, all our news had to come from what the governments said was going on. So hopefully this will give us a more objective view of what is going on. But I do think that people should carefully realize that if they think Al-Jazeerah is biased, then CNN, FOX news, network American news is without doubt biased in the same way. On the topic of Saddam and Islam, I think everyone has spoken on this multiple times. No one supports Saddam and no one thinks he is an 'Islamic' leader or has even followed Islam in his rule. If he is "muslim" or not or will burn in Hell is something up to God, not us. So if we hate Saddam why do we not support this war? Because I for one do not support the axiom "The ends justify the means". This is an unjust war against an innocent people and the world recognizes that and many many people in the US recognize that as well. Hence the protests which have drawn hundreds of thousands of people despite having a full out campaign against another country!! Let's not be naive and parrot the old "The US is just trying to be a hero and save the Iraqi people from evil Saddam". This is a completely untrue statement . It's pure hypocrisy. Where was the US's moral justification when it was supplying saddam with aid and weapons? Now all of a sudden he's an evil dictator? What about all the other evil dictators in the world? Sharon is a war criminal where's the US's outrage to put things right? Where is the US's humanitarianism when they justify 100,000 CHILDREN to die because it serves US foreign policy? And that they still allow to die under sanctions that the US KNOWS do not work at all and are only victimizing the innocent women and children of Iraq. So let's be honest... why is the US punishing the Iraqi people under the pretext of 'evil saddam'? My personal opinion 1. political stronghold in the middle east 2. oil, control of and greed 3. civilizational imperialism 4. anti-Islamic sentiment 5. revenge for 9/11 and i'm sure there's more but please anyone who wants to repeat the white house official line should join the whitehouse because no one else believes the lies anymore. |
| 03/24/03 at 13:47:05 |
| jannah |
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| Dude |
| 03/24/03 at 14:03:31 |
EDITED BY ADMIN: user banned from posting in this thread |
| 03/25/03 at 00:14:39 |
| bhaloo |
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| jannah |
| 03/24/03 at 16:14:32 |
| I interrupt this thread to bring you some special important programming *To make something quoted : [quote] like this [/quote] put [ quote] before the text and [ /quote] after the text! *To make something bold: like this put [ b] before the text and [ /b] after the text! *To quote a whole bunch of referring text from somewhere: [code] like this [/code] put [ code] before the text and [ /code] after the text make sure you put the code before AND after text otherwise it doesn't work and make sure to take out any spaces between the brackets [ ] otherwise it won't work. for the purpose of this post i had to put a space so it wouldn't actually do it!! |
| 03/24/03 at 16:16:55 |
| jannah |
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| Banu |
| 03/24/03 at 17:00:34 |
| [quote]I also feel if not for the usa france would no longer exist and neither would england, and many other. [/quote] It is a historical fact that had it not been for the French help to the U.S. in its war of independence against the British, who knows what would have been the situation of the U.S. The American owed a great lot to the French for their win over the British in their war of independence which it paid it back by liberating her from Germany. But now a days the Americans media in general never get tired of mentioning again and again of their favor to the French. Perhaps the Americans are now demanding the interest of the last 50 years plus. |
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| Ameeraana |
| 03/24/03 at 21:12:16 |
| [slm] The US keeps on speaking about how they are going to topple Saddam's regime (which, needs to fall--the method the US is using I am against) and aid the Iraqis to gain a democracy. Is the US really going to live up to its words? It does not take months and years to rebuild a country, it takes decades. Will the US reallys stick it through? Will there be a civil war in Iraq between the tribes to gain power? Iraq is not a country known to live peacefully amongst each other. The country is made up of different tribes of different religous/political beliefs that do not get along. Is the US really going to help stabalize these threats? Is the US going to stop Turkey from invading and attacking the Kurds? They need the air space, they want the air space, and are they going to "sacrifice" the Kurds for their purpose? It is horrible that Saddam Hussen has had this long to starve, murder, and humiliate his people and that the Muslim world was not able to solve the problem themselves. I believe that most of the Iraqis hate Saddam and are happy that his regime will fall, but I also think there is a strong hatred towards the US because of the all they have done in the past and so no matter what the US will always be the enemy. Is this war really worth the lives lost of the Iraqis and the lives lost of the "allied" soldiers? Ameera |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/24/03 at 21:18:36 |
| [slm] [quote author=Ameeraana link=board=ummah;num=1048281491;start=30#40 date=03/24/03 at 21:12:16] It does not take months and years to rebuild a country, it takes decades. Will the US reallys stick it through? [/quote] Yes they will. What they will do is use Iraqi oil (technically it is Muslim oil, money that belongs to you and me and every Muslim) to pay for the rebuilding along with stealing some of it for themselves. |
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| yunus |
| 03/24/03 at 22:04:28 |
| The Fact is that the US oppress people across the world for the special intrests of the elite white ruling capitialist class. How do we liberate people by killing them that is the most hyporitical rehtoric i have ever heard. The fact is patriotism is nationalism and is the "last refuge of a scoundrel". I am against this government and not afraid to speak out against it. the fact is the people of Iraq have a right to defend and kill US soldiers because this war is on of aggression and militarism. Sept 11 was just the chickens coming home to roost for american for all the sins it has committed against the world. The US has killed more civilians then another government since 1945. Representional Democracy is a shame it is just a dictatorship of the minority. They say we live in a democratic state well thats just BS your vote doesnt matter why should people vote when in doing so they are just legitimizing a corrupt system and the politicians in cahoots with the capitialist class only look out for their own interests. They worship money and dont care about the people of this world. If the US wants to stop terrorism they should stop taking part in it. As far as the medias propaganda and buying into i suggest people read manufacturing consent by Noam Chomsky. People need to unite and work to fight (nonviolently) this corrupt system so we can put a just on in place. P.S. As the saying goes behind every Bush there is a terrorist |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/25/03 at 02:41:00 |
| [slm] I have to agree with The Humble Muslim, the question has been addressed many times before on here. Now if someone missed it because they were new then I'll address the question. But I think in other instances on here there are people that have a certain agenda to try and irritate Muslims for fun or because they like harassing Muslims, and that type of behavior is going to stop. |
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| kingzdaughter1 |
| 03/25/03 at 03:16:51 |
| OH! BEFORE I FORGET, here's my trick on quotes, what I do is I press the quote button (just above the dude who's laughing so hard he's rolling on the floor: :-/ my he's a happy fellow,) then I copy and paste the quote from the person's post (so I don't misquote anyone) and paste it between the two quote signs! :) it's hard to quote smilies though, and I've managed to misquote smilies before :'( [This is my first *real* post in the Ummah, (i still hav a hard time believing my previous post wasn't in the Manar room :P) so guys, please be supportive, it's a big move [] ] amazingly, after a few days off the board, I come back to find everyone on my wavelength- this *rocks* :-* :-* :-* [quote] So if we hate Saddam why do we not support this war? Because I for one do not support the axiom "The ends justify the means". This is an unjust war against an innocent people and the world recognizes that and many many people in the US recognize that as well. [/quote] Sis, you have just summarized every argument I have had for the past few weeks. I personally do not like Hussein, and with all due respect to any supporters he may hav on this board, I think he's not someone I would wanna bump into in a dark alley. But quite frankly, neither's Bush after he has proved that he loves war just as much as Hussein. War is not some wonderful, fun, glamorous game that resembles an atari game (hehehe showin my age I guess- who in their teens has even heard of atari!?) where if you get out, you'll just play again. It's *lives* and everyone effected by this war is *innocent*- what does an Iraqi child that's not allowed to have a pencil because it constitutes a breach of the sanctions got to do with Saddam?? :o and now that child has to hear the horrific sounds of bombs every day, if not be actually bombed by it! Don't these people realize that if they're truely seeking the liberation of the innocents, bombing their homes isn't goin to fix things? My God, I have no further comment because as you probably could tell by previous posts, when I get in shock my mind shuts down till I clear my head then I get words to describe my thoughts. Currently I'm in the shut down stage- expect more when I've had a chance to (somewhat) articulate my thoughts, |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/25/03 at 09:02:34 |
| [slm] [quote author=Xtian learner link=board=ummah;num=1048281491;start=30#44 date=03/25/03 at 03:16:51][This is my first *real* post in the Ummah, (i still hav a hard time believing my previous post wasn't in the Manar room :P) so guys, please be supportive, it's a big move [] ] [/quote] congratulations. :) [quote] amazingly, after a few days off the board, I come back to find everyone on my wavelength- this *rocks* :-* :-* :-* Sis, you have just summarized every argument I have had for the past few weeks. I personally do not like Hussein, and with all due respect to any supporters he may hav on this board, I think he's not someone I would wanna bump into in a dark alley. But quite frankly, neither's Bush after he has proved that he loves war just as much as Hussein. [/quote] I agree as well. I don't think there is any person on this board that supports him. |
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| Dude |
| 03/25/03 at 15:09:41 |
| I've been struggling to find the right words to express my feeling on this war. I'm not 100% in agreement with Bhaloo on everything. I particularly don't like his anti American bent, while conveniently ignoring the travesties of the Saddam regime. In my opinion, this effort would be as well spent speaking out against this tyrannical leader (Hussein) and his sons, who torture and murder their own, all for the sake of their own riches and power. Anyhow, a friend of mine wrote this on a discussion page over here, and I thought it perfectly expressed how I feel about this war, along with some wonderful satire. Check it out: [quote]I believe George Bush when he says this conflict is about preserving 'the west's' way of life. Not in the sense, though, that they are trying to preserve freedom, democracy and the right to free speech. They (the yanks and brits) are trying to preserve their standing as the wealthiest and most powerful nations on the planet. Both the U.S. and Britain have established themselves as such already. But we must look in to the future and plan ahead. Iraq has massive untapped oil reserves. Reserves which may even rival that of Saudi Arabia. For various reasons (including U.N. sanctions) they have exploited only ten percent of these reserves thus far. Access to these resources would benefit in the billions and billions and billions of dollars. And we are not just talking about direct profits from oil sales. The contracts alone to bring the neglected oil fields up to date would be about ten billion dollars. Let's say America succeeds in 'liberating Iraq'. Several U.S. companies as well as the government then pour ten billion dollars into repairing the oil fields (companies which, by the way, have been invested in by scads of american politicians including you-know-who). Does anyone really think the Americans, after heroically 'liberating Iraq' and repairing their oil fields, will just leave without any claim to or control of the resources there? If the U.S. and Britain can obtain some sort of control over the reserves then they can establish a future foundation for the prosperity of their countries (as well as enough fuel to power them for many years). Hey, oil and money make the world go 'round. No wonder the people of the MIddle East are pissed off. If they could tap those resources (without Saddam) then they could increase their own prosperity. But the yanks are capitalists extraordinaire. They have seen the opportunity (as has Britain) and they are going for it. Man, what an opportunity for the yanks. They can get ahold of the thing they've been drooling over for years now and they have all kinds of propaganda they can use to justify it. So yes, it is about preserving our way of life. We will all have nice cars, houses, toys etc for years to come. Of course, people are going to die so that we can live this way but at least we'll have Britney Spears, Ford Explorers and white picket fences. Their might also just be a little resentment to our way of living from the rest of the world. The reason the French are acting so righteous is the fact that they have numerous contracts already in place with Saddam to exploit the oil reserves once the sanctions are lifted. These contracts are obviously not worth the paper they are written on if Saddam is removed and the U.S. has control. As for Russia? Well, Saddam just happens to owe Russia a few billion dollars and they ain't gonna get it if he ain't around. Once again, it's all about money. It's got nothing to do with 'what is right' as all the countries involved would have us believe.[/quote] |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/25/03 at 15:25:00 |
| BIG SIGH... Dude and Xtian Learner, As I have made clear many, many, times, the likes of Bhaloo and myself were trying to tell the whole world about Saddam years ago, while he was on the USA's side. I'm getting pretty bored of repeating all this. Yes we know Saddam is a tyrant. Yes we know he gassed his own people - and we knew it when it happened, not just conveniently bringing it up when we need this info. Oh BTW, how come the USA never tried to depose the tryannical Hafez Al Assad of Syria, who killed between 20000 - 50000 people during an attempted uprising in the 1980's ? Was it because the people doing the uprising were "fundamentalists" ? And what about the Shah of Iran, who was so tyrannical that the Iranian people kicked him out and replaced him with a "fundamentalist"? And what about the human rights record of Mubarak (Egypt President), as documented by Amnetsy International ? And what about the Saudis ? These are all tryants and despots, and people like me have been saying this for years. So please STOP REPEATING that we haven't condemend Saddam. SO this is the last time I am saying this : SADDAM IS AN OPPRESSIVE TYRANT. And NO-ONE on this board has indicated otherwise. If they have, then that is not the Islamic line, as the Prophet (SAW) said : "He who supports an opressor knowing him to be such has left the religion of Muhammed (SAW)". (Apologies if this is not the exact quote, but it is the meaning). Now are you all satisifed ? |
| NS |
| 03/25/03 at 15:28:30 |
| humble_muslim |
| Re: I am Starting to fall for the Propaganda.... |
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| Dude |
| 03/25/03 at 15:58:10 |
| Fair enough. It was a statement that Bhaloo and I happen to find ourselves on somewhat common footing, more than anything. I'm not here to defend the US either. I've supported their involvement in some conflicts (Kosovo), but not others- like this one. Your points are all valid, and noted. At this point, now that the war is in full swing, I'm more hopeful of a quick resolution that includes removing the current government from power. What takes that government's place is another discussion for another time. Hopefully we can have that discussion soon, eh? |
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| Dude |
| 03/25/03 at 17:06:31 |
| On the light side of things, I thought you'd all get a kick out of this: Courtesy of Rick Mercer from This Hour Has 22 Minutes - CBC Television: [quote]On behalf of Canadians everywhere I'd like to offer an apology to the United States of America. We haven't been getting along very well recently and for that, I am truly sorry. I'm sorry we called George Bush a moron. He is a moron but, it wasn't nice of us to point it out. If it's any consolation, the fact that he's a moron shouldn't reflect poorly on the people of America. After all it's not like you actually elected him. I'm sorry about our softwood lumber. Just because we have more trees than you doesn't give us the right to sell you lumber that's cheaper and better than your own. I'm sorry we beat you in Olympic hockey. In our defence I guess our excuse would be that our team was much, much, much, much better than yours. I'm sorry we burnt down your white house during the war of 1812. I notice you've rebuilt it! It's Very Nice. I'm sorry about your beer. I know we had nothing to do with your beer but, we feel your pain. I'm sorry about our waffling on Iraq. I mean, when you're going up against a crazed dictator, you wanna have your friends by your side. I realize it took more than two years before you guys pitched in against Hitler, but that was different. Everyone knew he had weapons. And finally on behalf of all Canadians, I'm sorry that we're constantly apologizing for things in a passive-aggressive way which is really a thinly veiled criticism. I sincerely hope that you're not upset over this. We've seen what you do to countries you get upset with. [/quote] I appologize, in advance, if this offends anybody. ;) |
| 03/25/03 at 17:07:07 |
| Dude |
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| Ameeraana |
| 03/25/03 at 21:17:13 |
| [slm] It makes me so upset to think about what is happening!!! The US and the UK are invading Iraq for their own future benefits!! Money we Muslims could have been using for ourselves!!! It is such a shame how money can be so evil, and it is absolutely apparent just how evil it is today!!! Look at the wealthy Middle Estern countries, like, UAE, and did you all know they are building two islands shaped like a palm with "luxury accomodations" and high-tech security all over at a cost of 1.5 billion dollars each? The name is Palm Island, if ya wanna take a look, here is the link: http://www.palmisland.co.ae/enter.html They are building these "luxurious" places for, Muslims? No, I don't think so. The country's population is already 75% foreigners. My fiancee who returned there a few months ago after graduating is appauled at how much his country has changed in the last 5-6yrs he has not been home. I used to tell him that if a country like his depends, or encourages by lavoushly decorating the country on foreigners, the country is going to get weaker and weaker in their faith in Islam. The foreigners are not expected to abide by any dress code and so the foreign women wear whatever they would wear in any western country. They show their skin and of course, do you really think the UAE and even other Muslim men who visit the country [u]really[/u] lower their gaze? I am sure there are pious ones out there, but, just by knowing many Gulf students in the US, I don't believe they do. Not at all. The UAE girls see all of this attention and see all of this "glamour" of these girls and women showing off their beauty and all the attention they get, and did the Muslim leaders really think the young generations are not going to be influenced by all this? My fiancee never really believed what I said and always argued that the families there have strong Islamic beliefs and will raise their children right. Well, whadaya know, he called me the other day amazed at how he was walking in the mall and saw two UAE girls,in their teens, both not wearing abaya--well, one was covered in a modest dress, but the other was wearing jeans and a belly-revealing shirt. I wasn't surprised at all. I always told him that if we have any girls its going to be a tough battle to keep them from wanting to look and act like the foreign women. It really is ashame. He told me about how his brother is getting married and they went to a wedding planner and he couldn't believe the things he saw. They now have absolutely extravagant show-like weddings!! Like the bride swing down on a large elaborately decorated swing over the wedding guests. The bride sitting in a closed "clamshell" that opens up for all to see. The hundreds of thousands of dollars the families "must" spend on weddings "or else, the people will talk". They have a budget of nearly $60,000 for this upcoming wedding. $60,000???? For one night? Really, is it Islamic to spend $60,000 just to "show off" to a city for one night? I don't think so. We will absolutely not fall for the greed of the society and will do something way way waaaaay simple, but meaningful to us, simply getting wed at the masjiid. Thats all I need. He has already let his family know that this upcoming wedding is the family's last big wedding since he is last in line to get married. Look at all of the luxuries these Gulf countries own while millions of Muslims live in abject poverty. I have read somewhere about how this "Iraqi Freedom" is a test from Allah to the Iraqis--NO!!! this is just another of a long line of tests for ALL Muslims. Do we learn, do we act, and do we do whats right? Hmmmm, really, I would have to say NO!! Its sad to say but Muslims don't even treat each other right nowadays. We are all equal in Allah's eyes, but until we learn that ourselves, we are going nowhere. I also read all the time about how we should be making duaa for the oppressed and duaa and duaa and duaa--well, how long are duaas really going to work unless we really take action of our situation? I constantly make duaa for the oppressed Muslims in the world but it also sickens me at the same time because I know that we are not doing nearly enough. There are countries and societies that have the wealth to sufficiently support a strong Muslim nation. Buy thats not how those societies necessarily think. Greed has completely and sadly taken over many wealthy Islamic societies and they are so spoiled action is not something they want to take. They want to live happily and greedily and luxuriously while the millions of Muslims suffer. Just sending money, and complaining and criticising the enemies is simply put--Not enough!! The wealth is there, but the greed that Shaytan has tempted them with has been working quite well. And so the greed leaves us with nothing but battles ahead of non-muslims trying to steal what they can while they can do it. Hopefully they won't be able to do it for too much longer. I know this post is so negative but I just really had to vent how I am feeling nowadays. There are so many wonderful Muslims out there, but there is also something stopping us from uniting all as one. Shaytan is out there, and we need help so that our we stop going along with him. We are the ones that are suffering because of this. fi amaan allah, Ameera |
| 03/25/03 at 21:52:56 |
| Ameeraana |
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| panjul |
| 03/25/03 at 21:37:05 |
| [slm] Just because we have more trees than you doesn't give us the right to sell you lumber that's cheaper and better than your own. Stop killing trees! that goes for people *everywhere!* Proud Tree Hugger |
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| humble_muslim |
| 03/25/03 at 21:38:00 |
| AA Sister Ameera, I was really touched by your post. I am constantly amazed at how new muslims are so quick to pick up things that most born muslims don't realise their whole lives... I personally have no doubt that the primary reason for the state of the muslims today is the love of the world over the love of the hereafter. The Prohet (SAW) expressed the reality of this world in the following brief hadith : Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "Verily! The world is accursed and what it contains is accursed, except remembrance of Allah and those who associate themselves with Allah; and a learned man, and a learning person.'' Inshallah I have hope and optimism that things can get better, if we all start thinking like you. |
| NS |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/25/03 at 22:52:36 |
| [slm] Mashallah some good posts. Just to add what The Humble Muslim said, we'd like to see ALL of these "muslim" countries have rulers that follow the rules of Islam. The problem is not just Saddam Hussein, but EVERY single so called Muslim country. We want change in ALL of them. Many of us believe that change will happen when we the people return back to the teachings of Islam and work together with our brothers and sisters and eliminate nationalism. Allah (SWT) does not change the condition of a people until they change themselves. So when we tell others about Islam, and teach them the practices of Muslims we are doing a small part to achieve this, insha'Allah (God willing). The riches they have in those countries is unbelievable they could end poverty in all the Muslim countries. |
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| kingzdaughter1 |
| 03/25/03 at 23:45:28 |
| [quote]BIG SIGH... Dude and Xtian Learner, As I have made clear many, many, times, the likes of Bhaloo and myself were trying to tell the whole world about Saddam years ago, while he was on the USA's side... So please STOP REPEATING that we haven't condemend Saddam. SO this is the last time I am saying this : SADDAM IS AN OPPRESSIVE TYRANT. Now are you all satisifed ? [/quote] firstly, you took my joke (mental note: never joke online) out of the post and ignored my entire thing. I honestly didn't mean to say anyone supported him on the board, I was meant to be sarcastic. I apologize if it sounded like I was serious, before I go back to the [] room where I belong, (waaaaaaay less tension there and if you get misquoted, it's always taken as a joke -hu hu hu) please re read my post with the mind that I was *joking* and you'll understand the dark alley stories were a continuation of the (for some reason now incredibly unfunny) joke- I am sorry once more KD P.S. two [] [] for Bhaloo who welcomed me before my self imposed exile to the [] room hehehehee |
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| Dude |
| 03/26/03 at 01:05:59 |
| Ameera- don't apologize! That was a great post! Xtian Learner- I wasn't sure why he singled you out, actually. I can see why he singled ME out, but you're still a blossoming flower here. The fun is just starting. (New Dudedism...blossoming flower. No, you can't borrow it Bhaloo.) Panjul- I'll give up the trees, just don't take my hockey! The boys (and now girls...Olympic champs, thanks very much) mostly use aluminum or graphite shafts now anyways- so we can even get rid of the wooden sticks. Besides, the wood sticks are made in Louisville. But I digress... This is sort of both propaganda and sports related. SI wrote a great article this week on Uday Hussein. You can find it here: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/03/24/son_of_saddam/ Pretty sad stuff, actually. I can see why sooooooooooo many athletes defect to Canada and claim refugee status every time we have a major international tournament of any kind here. It happened for years with hockey (Soviets), baseball (Cubans), track and field (many African nationals)...even our Olympic Gold Medallist Daniel Igali stayed in Canada after coming to Victoria for the 1994 Commonwealth games. They make great role models here, though. Igali has been an absolute joy in these parts...a great example to the kids. I nearly cried when he danced around the Maple Leaf in Sidney...one of the best tributes to our country we've ever had. I digress again...check out the article. |
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| Emerald |
| 03/26/03 at 01:42:50 |
| Whew! :P I finally got here!! Do you guys know how long it took me to read 4 pages of this topic?! Maan! :-/ You people need a breather. I just thought of something, what's the likelihood that Saddam and George Dubya are sitting at the same table right now sippin' a couple of [] and watching wrestling on cable? :D This topic is way too deep for me cause I just don't believe both sides. They're (Hussein & Bush) both crazy murderers! The only difference is that one comes right out and shows it and the other is two faced who plays dumb. Plus, who can you REALLY trust when it comes what's really going on? So what's the point of getting riled up about things which are quite possibly false? This whole thing seems to be coming out of the twilight zone. It's 1:45 AM ...I'm sleepy...Good night. |
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| panjul |
| 03/26/03 at 02:42:30 |
| 'This is my Iraq. Embarrassing Iraq embarrasses me.'" how obsessive. (is the spelling correct?) anyway, the guy gives me the creeps.... He then shaved the man's eyebrows, an insult to Muslim males. really? is that how it is in Iraqi culture? anyway, i think the excuse that the US offcial gave for not toppling Saddan Hussein that they were afraid that the sons might be worse than the father....what a bunch of...[use your own word here]. Cuz if you take down saddam, his family goes down with him! His family is his power base. It is the case with virtually all the middle eastern dictators. Take down one man from the family, the leader, then they all fall down. It's a tribal system. i would like to take a look into all the middle eastern dictators brains. On TV a month or two ago they showed this study which pointed out that our brains have activities in the front part which tells us right from wrong; and serial killers don't have any activity in that part...... interesting huh? I would like to take look inside Bush's head..i think it would be empty. |
| 03/26/03 at 02:44:51 |
| panjul |
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