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Ottawa cleric for holy war
Moe_D
04/07/03 at 17:46:39
Monday, April 7, 2003
Ottawa cleric for holy war
U.S. invasion 'unjust'

By KATHLEEN HARRIS, OTTAWA BUREAU
http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-04-07-0006.html
 
OTTAWA -- One of Canada's leading Muslim clerics called on Iraqis to take up arms in a holy war against the American invaders yesterday.

Imam Gamal Solaiman of the Ottawa Mosque said Iraqis must not sit idle as the U.S. continues its "unjust" war -- and he encouraged others who might be threatened to join Iraq's defensive. He said he supports Iraqi strongman Saddam Hussein's call for a holy war.

"If injustice is inflicted on you, should you accept it and stay idle?" he asked. "I support the people to defend their country and their dignity. This is an unjust war; it is a war to control the resources and to control the Middle East."

Warning against the repercussions of "capitulation," Solaiman insists the war has nothing to do with liberating the Iraqi people and everything to do with U.S. President George W. Bush's administration controlling the region and capturing its resources.

"Any people who see in the invasion a threat to their own country and their own resources should join the Iraqis," he said. "Who's next? He's categorizing people according to his own way of thinking."

Toronto Arab activist Hasan El-Attar said Islam promotes peace, but he distinguishes between defensive and offensive wars. He rejects the label of a "holy war."

"The holy Koran does not have such a statement," he said. "We preach harmony and peace, but we defend ourselves, as is the right for anyone, not just Muslims."

El-Attar called the war an invasion -- not a liberation -- and said that's reflected in the fact no one has welcomed the American troops "with bouquets of flowers."

"Liberation cannot come with pre-emptive strikes, with tanks and with weapons of mass destruction such as the Americans and the British are using against the innocent civilian Iraqi people," he said.

The Ottawa imam's views are just one of many diverse views on the Iraq war within the Muslim faith, he said. Some Detroit imams were recently demonstrating with slogans supporting American military troops, he said.

Mohamed Elmasry, national president of the Canadian Islamic Congress, said Muslims have a right to fight back against an invading army. "Resistance can range from civil disobedience to taking up arms to defend themselves," he said.
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
deenb4dunya
04/07/03 at 17:55:06
Another similar article. Most of what our imam says is accurate, but i think he should be more careful in choosing his words...? If you (any of you) were to respond to this article with a letter, what would you say? Would you support him?




Ottawa imam backs jihad against U.S.
Muslims should fight in Mideast, not on U.S. soil, Solaiman says
 
Kate Jaimet, with files from Jason Fekete  
The Ottawa Citizen


Monday, April 07, 2003

Muslims across the Middle East should take up arms to expel American troops from Iraq, the imam of the Ottawa mosque said yesterday.

"If I were there, I would fight with them," Imam Gamal Solaiman said in an interview with the Citizen. "I would fight the Americans with my nails and teeth."

But the Ottawa religious leader said terrorist attacks should not be conducted against Americans on U.S. soil.

"Not every American is against Arabs. So it is not open to go and kill Americans. No. The Americans who are coming to kill you, yes, you can face them to defend your country," Mr. Solaiman said. "When any Arab goes to America and makes mischief, that is totally objectionable."

Mr. Solaiman made the comments in an interview after his appearance on the Global television current affairs show Ottawa Inside Out. The show aired yesterday morning, 18 days after American and British troops began their military action in Iraq.

On the air, Mr. Solaiman told hosts Troy Reeb and Anne Dawson that he supports the call for a jihad, or holy war, against the United States -- a call issued by besieged Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and many Middle Eastern religious leaders.

"I do" support the jihad, Mr. Solaiman told the television panel. "Because to my mind it, (the American-led military action) is not a war for justice. It is not a war for principle."

Mr. Solaiman later said he believes the U.S. government's motive is not merely to overthrow Mr. Saddam, but to gain power in the Middle East. He said he believes that after occupying Iraq, the U.S. armed forces will try to overthrow governments in neighbouring Arab countries. For that reason, he said, Muslims from neighbouring countries should join the fight in Iraq.

"The Muslims there, in that area, they will be fighting for survival. They will be fighting to defend their lifestyle, to defend their resources, to defend their land," he said.

The U.S. has repeatedly said its aim is to liberate Iraq from the rule of Mr. Saddam, a murderous dictator who has controlled the country with an iron fist for the past 25 years.

The U.S. has also vowed to help in the transition to a democratically elected Iraqi government, after an interim period of American-controlled rule.

But Mr. Solaiman said he does not believe a Muslim should support the American and British forces, even if he opposes Mr. Saddam and sees the war as opportunity to end the dictator's regime. "He can join to fight against the Americans, and after that he can settle his accounts with Saddam Hussein," Mr. Solaiman said.

David Pratt, chairman of the House of Commons defence committee, said he was worried about Mr. Solaiman's comments. "I thought the imam's comments were very troubling since he certainly appears to be encouraging those in the region to be widening the conflict. We should all be praying for a rapid conclusion to this war so that the loss of life on both sides is kept to an absolute minimum," the Liberal MP said.

"His analysis of the situation is very deeply flawed ... The suggestion that the U.S. wants to control Iraqi oil is too simplistic to be taken seriously. The coalition is attempting to remove a tyrant and a dictator that has sponsored terrorism in the past."

Mr. Solaiman said he is not encouraging Canadian Muslims to go to Iraq to join the fight. He explained that the concept of "jihad" includes not just military violence, but also economic and political action, and said he is asking Ottawa Muslims to join the jihad in peaceful ways such as protest marches.

"I am asking them to make humanitarian aid, whether it is money or it is food or it is clothing," he said. "And to show their objection to war on the streets."

© Copyright  2003 The Ottawa Citizen
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
Dude
04/07/03 at 19:11:37
Interesting statistic on CNN today...since the first bombing started the US and British forces have executed over 29,000 aerial sorties. For those of you without calculators, that's approx 1500 flights a day!

They should change the name to "Operation Iraqi redundancy".
This is getting a lot of negative play in Canada, and I think it is being taken way out of context. This guy isn’t promoting violence, terrorism, or any sort of retaliation whatsoever. He’s endorsing the people’s right to defend themselves on their own soil.

I haven’t been in favor of this war from the start, mainly because the motives are highly suspect, and the methods overly brutal. I’m of the belief that Hussein needs to be removed, but I’m also against swatting a fly with a bazooka.
04/07/03 at 19:12:10
Dude
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
jannah
04/07/03 at 19:16:04
[slm]

I dunno if I would fan the flames of that whole thing. The first article i thought was somewhat objective. The second is just pure parroted propoganda.

I think imam's should stay away from using the word "jihad" or "holy war". There's too many connotations meanings behind it.

What he said is correct though. It is every person's God given right to defend their home, family and property.

I also really thought this brothers statements were very intelligent:

[quote] Toronto Arab activist Hasan El-Attar said Islam promotes peace, but he distinguishes between defensive and offensive wars. He rejects the label of a "holy war."  

"The holy Koran does not have such a statement," he said. "We preach harmony and peace, but we defend ourselves, as is the right for anyone, not just Muslims."  

El-Attar called the war an invasion -- not a liberation -- and said that's reflected in the fact no one has welcomed the American troops "with bouquets of flowers."  

"Liberation cannot come with pre-emptive strikes, with tanks and with weapons of mass destruction such as the Americans and the British are using against the innocent civilian Iraqi people," he said.  

[/quote]
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
deenb4dunya
04/07/03 at 20:40:59
[slm]

Thing is, last time after 911 our imam made other interesting comments that were true, or had some truth to them, as well as some other comments that most Muslims wouldnt agree with and obviously the media focused on that and he got lots of slack for it. I know that tommorows letters to the editor will be very interesting... I'd love to defend his stance but I'm not sure if I agree with everything, and at the same time I wouldn't want to overtly criticize my imaam... know what I mean?

I guess I'm just going to wait until the letters to the editor start flowing, people start making accusations, and going to the other extreme, and then I'll step in and defend whatever is just...and defend the middle ground. Good plan?

Inshallaah I'll try to post the responses to the article up.

[wlm]

Deen :-)


PS-- Dude, I hope you're one of those frequent letter-to-the-writers :)
04/07/03 at 20:45:21
deenb4dunya
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
deenb4dunya
04/08/03 at 12:10:19
Something tells me he was ordered to say what he said... wallaahu a'lam


Imam apologizes for call to holy war
 
Kate Jaimet, with files from Kelly Egan
The Ottawa Citizen


Tuesday, April 08, 2003

Ottawa's leading Muslim cleric issued a public apology late yesterday for saying he supports a holy war in the Middle East, remarks that caused a storm on Parliament Hill and threatened a review of his citizenship status.

Imam Gamal Solaiman, leader of the Ottawa Mosque, said he deeply regrets remarks he made on Global television on Sunday.

"I do not support or promote violence in any form against any country or any group of people," the imam said in a written statement sent to the Citizen shortly before 11 p.m.

"I deeply regret and sincerely apologize for my misunderstood comments and the hurt which they may have caused. I hope and pray that peace will prevail in all regions of the world."

It was hasty about-face for the cleric, who had repeated the thrust of his remarks yesterday, just as they were being soundly condemned by federal politicians.

During a scrum outside the Commons, Mr. Coderre said he wanted to check the imam's citizenship status and examine a verbatim record of his remarks, which were widely reported in newspapers across Canada.

On Sunday, the imam said he supported calls by religious leaders for Iraqis to wage holy war against the United States in the Middle East.

"I would say first that we have to check the status of the individual," Mr. Coderre told reporters, urging a cautious reaction, but also pledging to look into the matter. "I don't know the status of that person -- is he a Canadian citizen, what's the situation? I want to see verbatim what he really said. I'm going to take a closer look at what he really said and what he meant by 'jihad.' "

Mr. Coderre did not say what he might do if he discovered Mr. Solaiman is not a Canadian citizen.

Mark Dunn, the minister's director of communications, said late yesterday the minister accepts the apology.

The imam was scolded by a number of MPs yesterday for escalating tensions in an already emotionally charged conflict between Muslims in the Middle East and Americans.

Canadian Alliance leader Stephen Harper said he found Mr. Solaiman's comments disturbing and regrettable.

"My firm belief is that Canadian Muslims are very much on the side of our allies and our own troops who are there and not on the side of Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein is not a religious leader and his regime does not reflect the values of Islam."

Conservative leader Joe Clark said Mr. Solaiman should withdraw his remarks. "Those are inappropriate remarks for someone who holds a position of influence as he does and who is in a position where what he says may be seen to be speaking for the whole of the community in Canada."

Under questioning by reporters yesterday, the imam took pains to stress his remarks apply strictly to the Middle East, and he is not encouraging Muslims in Canada to engage in violence against the United States.

"I am saying to Canadian Muslims: You are in Canada, you are not threatened, your interests are preserved, your rights are maintained, you have to work for the good of Canada ... I am not calling for a fight here in this country. It is a peaceful country. It is hosting many different cultures and faiths. Why should I call for violence?"

Alliance MP Rahim Jaffer, a Muslim, said he doesn't agree with what Mr. Solaiman had to say, but defended his right to say it. He said many in the Muslim community find the U.S. action justified. "Most leaders, whether in the Islamic community or not, want to see a resolution to this war as quick as possible and don't want to call for further things that could escalate the tensions in that region," he said.

Calls for a religious war in the Middle East could cause the fight in Iraq to escalate into a wider regional conflict, Liberal minister David Kilgour cautioned.

"I am concerned. I hope that it doesn't happen. I hope that people of different faiths in the Middle East will realize that must not happen," said Mr. Kilgour, secretary of state for the Asia-Pacific region.

Mr. Kilgour said Mr. Saddam is merely manipulating people's religious feelings as a tool to stay in power.

"Anybody who knows anything about Saddam Hussein knows that he is simply somebody who is using religion for political or military reasons. Saddam Hussein has not got a religious bone in his body, and he has shown that when he has persecuted people who do have strong Muslim faith, in his own country."

Editorial: Ottawa imam was wrong to preach war, page A18. Reaction: Community leaders denounce remarks, page C3.

Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
Maliha
04/08/03 at 13:57:11
[slm]
This is soo pathetic  >:(
Why did he take back his comments?
I don't get it.

Maliha.
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
Moe_D
04/08/03 at 14:55:57
here is the reason why he appologized and took back what he said

"Ottawa's leading Muslim cleric issued a public apology late yesterday for saying he supports a holy war in the Middle East, remarks that caused a storm on Parliament Hill and threatened [font=Verdana]  a review of his citizenship status. [/font]"
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
Dude
04/08/03 at 16:47:59
Unfortunately, what this comes down to seems to be language barrier, and miscommunication. It seems lots got lost in the translation.

Whenever somebody in North America hears the term “Jihad”, they envision planes being flown into the Trade Centre or Pentagon. That’s the reality of the situation. He tried to explain that it is everyone’s right to defend his or her country, and all this guy was doing was supporting Saddam’s right to defend his country.

He also said that if he were over there, he would fight too.

Having said that, I don’t think he’s backed off from his views, just clarified them. He’s absolutely correct on his views regarding Canada: we should not be a target of terrorism, and he does not endorse terrorism. We are a peaceful Nation.

I will say that he probably should have measured his words and statement before making it. Many of us believe that the US is waging an illegal war…that isn’t in dispute. BUT, to use the word “Jihad” wasn’t really too bright, upon reflection. It is to be expected that the press would blow this up.

Does anyone disagree with his clarifying comments? I don't.
04/08/03 at 16:56:23
Dude
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
Moe_D
04/08/03 at 17:19:33
Tuesday, April 8, 2003
Imam probed over 'holy war'
But Muslim leader won't back down

http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-04-08-0058.html

By KATHLEEN HARRIS, OTTAWA BUREAU

 
OTTAWA -- Ottawa's Muslim leader is facing condemnation and a possible citizenship review over his weekend call for Iraqis to stage a holy war against U.S. invaders.

But Imam Gamal Solaiman of the Ottawa Mosque defended his remarks and suggested the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks do not give the U.S. a right to "persecute the whole world."

"The Muslims in the Middle East are threatened by what the Americans are doing. I'm sorry. I can't overlook what I feel," he said. "If this war continues, who is next?"

'VERY CAUTIOUS'

Asked if Solaiman's citizenship could be revoked on the grounds of inciting hatred, Immigration Minister Denis Coderre said it is too soon to say. But he said he intends to examine exactly what was said and what was meant by "jihad."

"I would say first that we have to check the status of the individual," he said. "When some people who are making some kind of statements, we have to be very, very cautious."

Tory Leader Joe Clark urged the Egypt-born Imam to retract his "highly inappropriate" statements, but did not believe they warranted expulsion.

Canadian Alliance Leader Stephen Harper called the remarks "disturbing, disappointing and regrettable" and insisted they don't represent the view of most Muslims.

Alliance MP Rahim Jaffer, a Muslim, was also disappointed by Solaiman's call for violent resistance.

"Being in a peaceful country like Canada, he can exercise his own opinion and not have to face repercussions from that other than scrutiny," he said. "If he was in a regime like Iraq speaking against the leader of that country, I don't think he would be around long to be able to do so."

But Wahida Valiante, VP of the Canadian Islamic Congress, supported Solaiman's views.

'UNJUST AND IMMORAL'

"Millions of people have marched saying this war is unjust and immoral," she said. "No one wants to live under occupation. This is a very honest statement coming from one individual."
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
humble_muslim
04/08/03 at 18:07:54
AA

So let me get this straight.  Under the UN Charter, the invasioj of Iraq by the USA is illegal.  But it's okay not only to support it, but to do it as well.  Again under the UN Charter, a state has the right to defend itself when it's being attacked. But it's not okay to say that.  Am I missing something ?

Just another example of the west putting the 11th commandment on the muslims ... "Thou Shalt not Fight".
NS
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
deenb4dunya
04/08/03 at 18:21:45
I agree with what Br.Dude said.. the imam is right, but he should have been more careful what words he uses.

Make duaa 4 him inshallah.

Deen :-)
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
Dude
04/08/03 at 19:21:25
[quote]So let me get this straight.  Under the UN Charter, the invasion of Iraq by the USA is illegal.  But it's okay not only to support it, but to do it as well.  Again under the UN Charter, a state has the right to defend itself when it's being attacked. But it's not okay to say that.  Am I missing something ?

Just another example of the west putting the 11th commandment on the muslims ... "Thou Shalt not Fight". [/quote]

Who is your mini rant directed to? The Imam or the Government?

Really, can you blame either side? You have the highest-ranking Muslim leader in the country saying he endorses "Jihad". I, as a Canadian, would hope this man would be investigated after making a comment like this. If he did (read: did) support "Jihad" (as the West has grown to know it as), then this man could be considered a risk to Canadian citizens.

He clarified his statements, while holding his stance on the rights of individuals to defend themselves. In my mind, he did well today...by clearly explaining himself, he was able to convey the thoughts of many, while still propping up the country in which he lives, and giving clear message to Muslims across the country that terrorist activities are 100% not acceptable. I don't see his statements as a backpedal at all.

This isn't a "Western Society prejudging Islam" issue as you have implied. This is about a powerful Imam who unintentionally made an inappropriate comment to the press. He clarified his comment. Nobody is saying what he can and can't say. Free speech is free speech. What some initially said was that this man should be looked at very closely, considering he is a man of influence & power, and considering he just stated he endorses "Jihad". If a high-ranking Nazi came out and endorsed the killing of Jews, he’d be investigated too.

The Imam did the best thing he could do for himself today, and good for him. Remember, many in the West had no idea as to what a “Jihad” is until 9/11…
04/08/03 at 19:23:41
Dude
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
bhaloo
04/08/03 at 20:53:13
[slm]

[quote author=deenb4dunya link=board=ummah;num=1049752000;start=0#5 date=04/08/03 at 12:10:19]"I do not support or promote violence in any form against any country or any group of people," the imam said in a written statement sent to the Citizen shortly before 11 p.m.
[/quote]

What if this group of people attack you?  Do you mr. imam support violence against the US army IN IRAQ (notice what I have emphasised) that has attacked Muslims in Iraq?  

It amazes me at some of these people.  Some weeks back, some cleric from Al-Azher said it was permissible to kill american soldiers that are fighting in Iraq. (to that I say, NO DUH!  if someone attacks you, you have every damn right to defend yourself).  Then due to some pressure he started to change his words.   Its all a bunch of nonsense.  
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
deenb4dunya
04/08/03 at 21:58:57
[quote]You have the highest-ranking Muslim leader in the country saying he endorses "Jihad"[/quote]

Highest-ranking... how's that???

Deen :-)
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
Dude
04/08/03 at 23:47:47
Bhaloo, don't you get it? By saying that, he's disapproving of the American lead attacks on Iraq. I think that is pretty clear.

Whatever. ::)

It seems that you and the humble one are all bent on this fellow clarifying is statements for the general public's benefit. You seem to think there is something wrong with "Westernizing" a comment. Well, guess what? We LIVE in the WEST! ::)  
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
se7en
04/09/03 at 00:03:08
as salaamu alaykum,


[quote]Really, can you blame either side? You have the highest-ranking Muslim leader in the country saying he endorses "Jihad". I, as a Canadian, would hope this man would be investigated after making a comment like this. If he did (read: did) support "Jihad" (as the West has grown to know it as), then this man could be considered a risk to Canadian citizens. [/quote]

You would find a man who said "I support the people to defend their country and their dignity" worthy of being investigated ???

How about a man who said, "While a foreign troop was landed in my country, I would never lay down my arms never, never, never!"

And, "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! - I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"


[quote]Nobody is saying what he can and can't say. Free speech is free speech. [/quote]

Freedom of speech implies that you have the right to say whatever you would like without fear of reprisal by the government.  It is not free speech when making certain comments causes your citizenship to be revoked.

[quote]If a high-ranking Nazi came out and endorsed the killing of Jews, he’d be investigated too.  [/quote]

I don't see the parallel here. Jihad is a word that refers to any just struggle against evil, whether it be individual or societal, spiritual or physical.  And as the imam said, it is indeed a type of jihad for the people of Iraq to defend their lives and their families.  

He said something which I think is true for any human being - that if he were in a situation where he or his family's life was in danger, he would defend himself.

And I'd go a step further and question how exactly you can liken an imam, a man of spirituality who has dedicated his life to teaching and counseling people of a faith, to a Nazi leader?  
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
Dude
04/09/03 at 00:15:52
Before you jump down my throat (oops...too late ;) ), read my posts again.

The word "Jihad" is a scary word over here for non-Muslims...has been since 9/11. When the Imam states he supports Saddam’s call for "Jihad", it naturally will get people's backs up. The West knows Jihad as a negative word...blame the press, not the people.

Most people will agree with his clarifying statement, but he should have been careful in the first place of his wording.

The only connection w/ the Nazi example is [i]if[/i] a well known Muslim in this country were to publicly endorse revenge in the form of terrorism against the US. That's the comparison: it's hypothetically speaking. I didn't liken him at all to a Nazi.

Again, read all of my posts carefully, then get back to me (you may actually find I'm on your side).
04/09/03 at 00:16:33
Dude
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
siddiqui
04/09/03 at 00:26:04
[slm]
"Hum uff kehte hain to giraftaar hote hain  >:(
Aur woh qatal kar ke bhi azaad hain  >:( "

We are arrested  even if we utter Ah!
and they go scott  free even after murder  >:(

[quote]the comparison: it's hypothetically speaking. I didn't liken him at all to a Nazi.  

[/quote]

Btw please take this metaphorically too
[wlm]
04/09/03 at 00:26:54
siddiqui
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
Dude
04/09/03 at 00:50:10
First, the Imam wasn't arrested.

Second, he hasn't been deported, and he won't be unless he has links to criminal activities (very doubtful). You all need to learn a little about Canada and oabout our import laws...by far the most lenient and accepting in the world.

Third: read between the lines on the "Nazi" comparison: I don't compare him to one at all, but I would compare someone like Saddam Hussein to a Nazi. If someone like this was in my country, and made a questionable comment in the press, I'd hope the RCMP would look into it.

The Imam will be just fine, because he likely doesn't have a violent bone in his body.

So, relax everyone. Again...read the posts thoroughly before jumping to conclusions.








04/09/03 at 00:56:06
Dude
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
se7en
04/09/03 at 00:59:16
not talking about you specifically dude, but the reason this totally pisses me off is because somehow it's seen as *justified* to carry on an investigation into this guy's citizenship simply because he said something that was *misconstrued* as being anti-American.. what kinda logic is that?  

it's this type of mentality that is the root cause for completely unconstitutional and racist legislation like the Patriot Act  >:(  

*sigh*
04/09/03 at 01:09:12
se7en
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
siddiqui
04/09/03 at 01:02:15
[slm]
[quote]First, the Imam wasn't arrested.  

Second, he hasn't been deported, and he won't be unless he has links to criminal activities (very doubtful). You all need to learn a little about Canada and oabout our import laws...by far the most lenient and accepting in the world.

Third: read between the lines on the "Nazi" comparison: I don't compare him to one at all, but I would compare someone like Saddam Hussein to a Nazi[/quote]

Dear Bro you took my statement /couplet litreally and not metaphorically as the disclaimer went

so u say saddam=nazi
just wonder what you think of
bush=saddam

sorry about = just revising my math  ;)
Btw In spite of our agreements and disagreements we love you for the sake of Allah swt just wanted to let you know that  :)
[wlm]
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
Dude
04/09/03 at 01:09:17
It's not racism. Why does everyone on this board pull the racism card so quickly?  ::)Use it where appropriate.

He originally said he supports Hussein's call for Jihad (I'm paraphrasing). The West interpret that as a call to counter attacks, to terrorist activities. When you look at it this way, it is alarming.

He clarified his comments, and he's comming accross very well. Really, it isn't that big a deal.

Siddiqui- wanna tell me what you're getting at? Why are you trying to drag me into a [anger]ing contest on a subject we agree on? The people already know my thoughts on Bush...I don't need to repeat them- do the research and read through the threads.

04/09/03 at 01:13:45
Dude
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
siddiqui
04/09/03 at 01:18:24
[slm]
[quote]Siddiqui- wanna tell me what you're getting at? Why are you trying to drag me into a [anger]ing contest on a subject we agree on? The people already know my thoughts on Bush...I don't need to repeat them- do the research and read through the threads.  
[/quote]

Nopes bro was just asking you a specific question thats all
well if you dont want to answer it thats okie
and hey bro its not personal and please dont take offence
[wlm]
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
UmmWafi
04/09/03 at 01:40:49
[slm]

When someone has an acute fear of spiders, its called arachnophobia.  When someone is afraid of heights, its called vertigo.  When someone is afraid of closed spaces, its called claustrophobia.  They all belong to the family of orientation called phobias.  As we all know, phobias stem from an irrational fear of something. Regardless of how we try to reason, there is no way someone who has arachnophobia will sit beside a huge spider and sing happy songs.  Unless he gets therapy for his phobia.  It ain't the fault of the spiders, but hey hey...Naturally we gan turn all psychotherapist and examine history but for the time being, we shan't.

America and most of the Western countries have a phobia.   Instead of having a phobia for terrorists, they developed a phobia for Muslims in general.  Now, as in other phobias, the fear and suspicion is baseless.  Of course they will turn psychotherapic and say that history has shown that Muslims are killers.  However, we can try to show them that Hitler wasn't Muslim, The Japanese weren't Muslims, bloke who bobed Oklahoma Building ain't Muslims and O.J Simpson definitely isn't a Muslim, still their fear is after all irrational.  They point their fingers at the WTC attack and the Yemeni incidents and argued that in these cases many lives were taken.  So we try to argue that if it was numbers that they were concerned with, the Nazi Occupation killed more people, Milosovic killed more people and the Israeli Govt is even more brutal.  Yet, once again, irrational fear reigns supreme.

Fast forward to a lil town in Canada (apologies to all Canucks who resent me calling any of their towns lil).  We have an imam who used the word jihad in extolling the need to defend oneself from aggression.  Man was investigated..and well..you know the story.  So, what do we have here ? One camp arguing that the investigation of the imam and the threat of deportation used to extract an apology were wrong while the other camp (mainly one dude *pun intended*) insists that its a small matter, that it's justified somehow in the Western eyes because of the usage of the word jihad.  

I am afraid I have to align myself with camp 1.  Just because someone has no clue to the real meaning of the word jihad does not mean that I have to stop using that word for fear of repercussions.  In fact, just because someone doesn't understand jihad, there shouldn't be an automatic repercussion.  It is not the Muslims' fault that America and the West have a phobia.  Maybe, if they have gone for therapy, serious therapy, then they would have a better understanding of their fears.  In the meantime, ain't no way a spider should be killed just cos someone has arachnophobia.  If we are gonna occupy a position of authority (ie govt posts) then its our responsibility to be at least well-informed.  If we are going to allow ourselves to wallow in our ignorace then we should not accept others to embrace that same ignorance.

In short, enough with being jumpy and then making the Muslims pay for that jumpiness.  Get a clue already.  Even a Japanese would roll his eyes if someone is gonna keep referring to WWII for his suspicions of all Japanese.

Asking someone to read between the lines is not perhaps the best of things, especially in a message board.  Words are devoid of expressions and our reading of them might be different from the spirit in which they were written.  In fact, some of us might even missed out on the fact that there are lines at all, let alone knowing that there are spaces filled between them.  I do know that tribe leader of camp II does not agree with the war but methinks perhaps he has failed somewhat in appreciating the spirit behind the rebuttals made by tribefolks in camp 1.

Just my thoughts on the matter.  Oh and one more thing.  If anyone is going to respond to this post and tells me to relax, let me tell you that I have hot chocolate on my right and steaming hot samosas on my left and I am just more relaxed than a baby who has been bathed and fed and now sung a lullaby to.  Comprende ?

Wassalam.
Re: Ottawa cleric for holy war
admin
04/09/03 at 15:46:21
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We've deleted some of the replies in this thread.

Dude this is your second and last warning. So far we have received 3 complaints about you from Madina users this week.

This is not about your personal views itself but the way your posts violate the constitution.

This board is meant for people to come and exchange views in a friendly respectful manner.

Please re-read the constitution. As administrators we have to be fair to everyone posters and readers alike.

Thank you

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04/09/03 at 17:10:24
jannah


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