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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/07/03 at 23:47:29 |
| Assalam-Alaikum This is a very serious problem :( . See back in the 8th grade i wasnt really Islam orientted....:/....and i really started to like this guy. SOoner or later it became a 'Love' issue....and i couldnt stop thinking about him....even though he wasnt Muslim. But over the yrs. ive been going to this islamic school, and Alhamdulilah i learned all of the bad things about Zina....and stuff like that. But i was already i nto deep and i didnt know what to do. I tryed to stop likeing him.....and i even tryed to hate him to stop likeing him but nothing was and still is working...I told him how i felt...and he told me that he didnt like me...THAT i understood but i still cant stop liking actually LOVING him......PLEASE PLEASE ...help i have no i dea what i should do.... Jazakullah.... Wasallam |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Bismillah23 |
| 04/08/03 at 11:19:15 |
| asalaam alaikum sis... trust me, try your HARDEST to dislike him. Shaitaan makes you think about him, and "Love" him. Love is when that other person loves you back. its not a one way streak. Think about it sis. Shaitaan is your open enemy as its stated in the Quran. Allah swt says to the muslims (believers of the book) to not associatte much with disbelievers. (sorry i cant think of what suurah and what verse, ill post it later, im at work :) ) the most beautiful form of love that allah swt gives you is with another MUSLIM, that way you can encourage each other to stay on the right path inshallah, allah swt gives us abudent love, and makes the love between the two of u grow. (right next to the love that allah swt gives us for himself, as well as the prophet [saw] and the quran, but that is seperate in what your talking about :) ) may allah swt bring you someone that is a muslim that loves you more than you can ever image, and help you stay clear away from shaitaan's actions and words, ameen Inshallah pray, ask for guidance, ask to remove shaitaans hideous words or thoughts in your head, and inshallah, allah swt will help his servants in the right path, may allah make this task easy for you sis. be good, think of what good rewards you shall benefit from with allah swt the more you stear away from the thoughts of shaitaan. :) be good sis, jazakallahu khairen your sis |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| chaz |
| 04/08/03 at 21:31:08 |
| Salaams Sis From the bottom of my heart gal, I'm pleading with you and telling you DO NOT go down that road, because it doesn't lead anywhere except to heartache and betrayal. :'( Undoubtedly the things you 'love' about this guy will also include some of his characteristics, many of which make him the person he is; the non-muslim that he is. I'm sure that you will know that we should only love for the sake of Allah (swt), so how can what you feel for this guy be 'love' if he has no concept of Allah (swt)? Anything you feel for him will be looked upon by the Almighty in disgust, and is that really how we want ourselves to appear to our maker? And sis, real love is a special bond shared between two people. There's a saying that goes... 'To love is nothing, to be loved is something, but to love & be loved is everything'. When your feelings arent reciprocated, (right word?) it's not love but infatuation. Tell yourself that there is someone better out there, someone worthy of you, a mulsim bro who will give you as much love as he receives from you, if not more. And believe it, because at the end of the day the best quality you can have in a partner is their imaan. This guy u like, he aint a muslim, he aint anything - someone out there deserves you so much more than he does. Give yourself the respect you deserve and get him out of your system. Pray to Allah (swt) for strength and sabr, don't ask to have your feelings of 'love' to be replaced by hate, coz there is a very very fine line between the two. Instead, ask that Allah (swt) removes all feelings you have for this guy and anything you give up for the sake of Allah will be replaced with something so much better for you, Inshallah. Anyways, I think I've gone on enough, I didn't mean to start lecturing, if it made any sense to you at all! :P All the best sis, I know what you're going through and my prayers are with you always Inshallah ;) Take care Wasalaams :) Chaz |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Emerald |
| 04/09/03 at 00:59:48 |
| [slm] I hope you don't mind me asking you this question sis but....how old are you now? The reason why I'm asking is becuase I was in a similar situation. I was in the 8th grade and there was somebody I liked. Now I'm 26 and I saw him about a year ago and I felt a feeling that popped back up in me. But you know what?....I now realize that he was the first one my heart grew fond of. It wasn't really becuase of his amazing personility or any of those other reasons we come up with that stirred feelings in me but rather that it was first love (if you want to call it that). And it's true, you never forget your first love but it doesn't mean it has true substance. You will always have those feelings but you need to realize Allah (swt) has someone better in store for you. That usually helps you to forget. Well I don't know if I was of any help, but cheer up, k? :) |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Chris |
| 04/11/03 at 12:46:53 |
| Charming advice, you two, I hope that you learn the error of your ways and that she finds the moral courage to ignore it. "trust me, try your HARDEST to dislike him" Dislike leads to comptent and hatred. What do you think that will do to her soul? I was unaware of any religion - excempt the long vanished cainaites - giving any ruling as to God liking Hate. Can you point to a verse that says that you should hate others who have the potental to become Muslims themselves? There is a difference between Shatain himself and and an ordinary man. Temptation exists for us to overcome. I can fell nothing, but admiration, for a man who was able to tell her that he did not love her back, had he said that he did love her, he could have ruined her completley in ways worse than rape. As for herself, the only advice I can give is to cherish him as a friend and enjoy his company as a firend. Perhaps he'll come to love you and convert to Islam, or perhaps one day two old friends will look back and think how lucky they were not to have indulged their passions. Chris PS. I see why too much 'hate your neighbour cos he practices a different religion' these days. Just ask yourself how you would feel if someone said that about Islam. I don't mean to offend, but I need to get the point across. |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| UmmWafi |
| 04/11/03 at 13:16:01 |
| [slm] Love is a strange emotion. We have often read that it can move mountains and make people do the craziest things. Still, nobody can ever describe love thoroughly and completely because love is as different as the individuals themselves. There are happy stories where the couple end up with each other and there are sad stories of parting and heartache. How do we even begin to have the courage to love ? Still, for Muslims, the love we bear for Allah SWT is the one true love, the love that sustains us in this world and the love that will engulf us in the Hereafter. A friend faced this dilemma once and was in pieces over it. One day she told me that Alhamdulillah, she is coping well. Her secret is realising that the love we feel for a person should be an extension of the love we feel for Allah SWT. She would never convert for another person and she will never expect another person to convert because of her. Faith is the business of God, not men. If it is destined that you and this guy are meant to be together, then Insha'Allah, you will be. In the meantime, just remember that even without him in your life, you have the greatest love of all, the Love of Your Creator. Wassalam. |
| 04/11/03 at 13:19:41 |
| UmmWafi |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| panjul |
| 04/12/03 at 01:01:20 |
| [slm] Wait. Who's Chris? When did he join the board? Hi Chris. Or salams. whatever you like best. ;) So are you Mike? But I thought Mike was Mike and not Chris. Didn't Mike get annoyed once that someone confused him with Chris? Sorry Mike! So Chris, i presume you are not new. |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/12/03 at 01:24:01 |
| [slm] ofcourse its hard sweety, but you see thats what makes us stronger. This is the plus in this. Just think of it this way, this life is only temporary and we never know when we are going to die. Our main goal should be to worship Allah (swt) alone and strive to do good deeds and work hard to be a good Muslim (which means being a good sister, wife, daughter, friend, ect). IF you knew you were gonna die tommorrow then sister I am sure we do every good deed in the world and probably not think of him eh? Now I understand this is not in your control but the fact that you are striving inside yourself and fighting it is Jihad sister. I am sure you are earning good deeds in doing this...and also coming to an Islamic website to share your feelings. Mash'Allah. And another plus Alhumdulilah! Brother Chris is right! Be thankful that after telling your feelings to this guy he didnt play with you or lie to you about his feelings and told you straight up or else the pain could have been double if not triple. Alhumdulilah! All praise is due to Allah Lord of the Worlds. Remember that in Qur'an it says after every hardship there is ease. So dont worry my sis, hopefully insh'Allah the pain will go away. Sister I encourage you to stay here (if your not already) and post and learn from this board. The support will insh'Allah make you feel better and insh'Allah help you take your mind off of him. May Allah (swt) bless you with a husband who will love you and take care of you and May Allah help you overcome this hardship soon. Am'een Many du'as for you, Your sister ps if you would personally like to talk about it then feel free to private message me. |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| jannah |
| 04/12/03 at 05:10:26 |
| Chris, I think coming from a non-Muslim background you're really misunderstanding what is being said here. This is something that is a sin in our religion. Telling someone to stay away from it and to try their best to stay away from it in every way possible is completely correct. This isn't about society or 'teaching hate' or whatever else. Maybe a better metaphor for you would be if someone tells us that their boyfriend abuses her physically but that she still can't help herself and goes back to him every time. You'd be horrified right... hopefully you'd tell her to be strong and stay away from him until he gets help. Same here. |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Chris |
| 04/12/03 at 12:10:20 |
| Hi, I don't think I'm misinterpreting anything - but I suppose I could be a bit bised ;) Lets see, are these facts stright? 1) She likes this guy, whoem we know nothing about except that fact and that he was nice enough to let her down gently and not take advantage of her. 2) She, being Muslim, should know that she should not act on those feelings. If she does, she is, of her own free will, breaking laws. My take on this is simple. If she chooses to like the guy, she may not be able to help liking him, she CAN help not acting on the desire. If you tell her to feel nothing, she won't be able to follow that advice. I objected to your advice because I know all too well what hate can do to someone. Just remember that there are thousands of people activly following advice to hate Islam. Chris |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| mr-bean |
| 04/12/03 at 12:38:21 |
| [quote author=Chris link=board=madrasa;num=1049773649;start=0#9 date=04/12/03 at 12:10:20]Hi, I don't think I'm misinterpreting anything - but I suppose I could be a bit bised ;) I know all too well what hate can do to someone. Just remember that there are thousands of people activly following advice to hate Islam. [/quote] this has nothing to with hate. don't think so one-dimensionally. had muslims hated non-muslims as you suggested, then muslim men would not be able to marry non-muslim women. the simple reason muslim women are not allowed to get involved with non-muslim men is because any resulting children will most likely take the religion of the father -- that is they will grow up non-muslim. of course this doesn't always happen, but it is a pretty good hard and fast rule. that is why muslim men are allowed to marry non-muslim women (monotheist women) because the children will be turn out muslim. hence i repeat, being able to or not being able to marry non-muslims has nothing to do with hate. it is simply the law, and has to do with ensuring that future generations are muslim and not non-muslim. for example, even the prophets daughter Zainab was married to a nonmuslim at one time. when the revelation that muslim women are not allowed to be married to non-muslim men came, then Zainab even though she loved her husband very, very much separated from her husband. She did not separate from her husband because she hated him because he was not muslim. she did it because it was the law. only later when he became muslim did they end their separation -- when they their rejoining become lawful. muslims must abide by the rule of law whether one likes it or not. (christians don't have a very strong understanding of such concepts as religious laws, so it is perhaps not surprising why you are confused). when that doesn't happen and muslims twist the laws to suit themselves you can get people like Bin Laden. Bin Laden twisted the islamic laws of warfare to suit his desires and whims. That is why you can get such incredibly ridiculus fatwas from him and his like that you can kill americans wherever you find them. When you don't live by the law, then you throw everything which islam is about out of the window. |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| jannah |
| 04/12/03 at 12:40:55 |
| Hmm again, this isn't about hating Islam or not hating it or hating another religion or faith. It's about staying away from a sin, it's as simple as that.. Again to us, it's like you're telling her to 'like' someone who will do much harm to her. I think you should be very careful when you give advice here, because Islam isn't your faith and your worldview is completely different. No doubt your disagreement with much advice given here is because the basic belief in Islam and it's values isn't there. |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Chris |
| 04/12/03 at 12:46:17 |
| I did not tell her to love him. I did not tell her to hate him. I told her to make her own choice. |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| mr-bean |
| 04/12/03 at 12:57:03 |
| [quote author=Chris link=board=madrasa;num=1049773649;start=0#12 date=04/12/03 at 12:46:17]I told her to make her own choice. [/quote] that's cool :) |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/12/03 at 16:01:50 |
| [slm] [quote]trust me, try your HARDEST to dislike him. [/quote] I personally think Chris was looking at this and thats why he made this comment. She doesnt have to 'dislike' the guy. As Muslims we should try not to 'dislike' anyone. Anyway I believe she didnt mean it this way. I think she meant try your hardest not to think about him... i think. Allah (swt) knows best. |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Muslimah08 |
| 04/13/03 at 15:21:07 |
| [slm] Hello Brothers and sisters...... :-* i just want to [glow=red,2,300]TEXT[/glow] :-X thank you all very much... ;D...thanx to ur opinons points of view and advice i have started to stop liking him ..LIKE THAT ;) and start liking him as a friend :-/. I think u have helped me very much ....and i really have nothing else to say but THANK YOU ALL very much i dont kno how many times i can say that 8) :) :-[ but THANK YOU.... May Allah bless you and give you many many reward and grant you Jannah ......! Ame'en :) And sorry if i mislead some one by saying "i even tryed hating him" i know now not to do that again.....well bye and THANK YOU again....if any one wants to Instant Message me.....my AOL Instant Messanger Screen name is ....FoReVeRAiDa.....or email me at foreveraida@netscape.com. THANK YOU [wlm] P.S- can anyone tell me what my name means.....its Sieda....i couldnt find it anywhere....and if i didnt like my name isnt there a Hadith that says i could hange it like .....i dont kno ,.....but plz let me kno! ;D :-/ :-* [] :-) |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Chris |
| 04/13/03 at 15:34:43 |
| Your're welcome. I'm always willing to chat. Just don't start liking me THAT way ;) Chris |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Muslimah08 |
| 04/13/03 at 15:41:46 |
| [slm] LOL DONT WORRY I WONT! :) ;) :D ;D 8) :-/ :-* :-) [] |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Muslimah08 |
| 04/13/03 at 15:43:11 |
| OH YEA....CAN U GO TO THE CHAT ROOM?......... :-X ??? |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Chris |
| 04/13/03 at 15:47:03 |
| Just gone in, can't see anybody. If not, just use MSN. Chris |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Muslimah08 |
| 04/13/03 at 16:20:17 |
| wel.....sorry about that :-[ my computer froze and i had to shut down and start all over ( slow internet)....so if ur still online u can go back if u want! :-X |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/13/03 at 17:53:52 |
| [slm] sister Glad you joined the crew :) [quote]and start liking him as a friend [/quote] Sister ofcourse we should not try to dislike anyone but that does not mean we should go be friends with everyone also right? Sister I think you should be polite but not be 'friends' with him. If you talk to him like a friend then it will be harder for you to forget him. Instead maybe you should busy yourself with getting involved in the mosque, reading Qur'an ect. I believe from an Islamic point of view we should only talk to the opposite gender for business or for a reason, not just to 'talk' because this can lead to attraction which can lead to worse things. ..or this can lead to 'love' as you already know then it can lead to heartbreak. This would be the same even if the man was a Muslim. take care your sister |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| chaz |
| 04/13/03 at 19:10:12 |
| "Sister I think you should be polite but not be 'friends' with him. If you talk to him like a friend then it will be harder for you to forget him." personally sis, i totally totally totally agree with this one ;) if u dont mind me asking u now, how is it that one day u went from 'loving' the guy to 'liking him as a friend' plz dont get me wrong, i'm not trying to patronize u, only looking for an answer to that for myself. coz if u've thought of, or been with someone in one way, how can u forget all those feelings and moments u shared whenever u speak to him or see him again? was there anything specific u told urself or tried to believe? if i've offended u by asking or saying anything, plz forgive me (coz if u dont then Allah wont either! ;) ) take care and hope all goes well for u inshallah keep da peace wasalaams chaz xx |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| siddiqui |
| 04/13/03 at 22:43:44 |
| [slm] Just wanted to share a poem by Allama Iqbaal with you [wlm] sitaaro.n se aage jahaa.N aur bhii hai.n abhii ishq ke imtihaa.N aur bhii hai.n there is a world beyond the stars there are more tests in life yet to come taayii zindagii se nahii.n ye fazaaye.n yahaa.N saika.Do.n kaaravaa.N aur bhii hai.n the weathers/atmosphere is not tied to this life/phase there are thousands of caravans in this life yet to come kanaa'at na kar aalam-e-rang-o-bu par chaman aur bhii, aashiyaa.N aur bhii hai.n don’t be satisfied with this life of fragrance and color there are many more gardens , many more skies yet to come agar kho gayaa ek nasheman to kyaa Gam maqaamaat-e-aah-o-fugaa.N aur bhii hai.n Don’t be sad that one nest is lost There many more pains and laments yet to come tuu shahii.n hai parwaaz hai kaam teraa tere saamane aasmaa.N aur bhii hai.n you are an eagle your job is to fly there are many more skies in front of you yet to come isii roz-o-shab me.n ulajh kar na rah jaa ke tere zamiin-o-makaa.N aur bhii hai.n do not get lost in the mundane of this life there are many more lands many more destinations yet to come gae din kii tanhaa thaa mai.n a.njuman me.n yahaa.N ab mere raazadaa.N aur bhii hai.n those days are gone I was the only one in these gatherings there are many more confidants yet to come |
| Stay away... |
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| Maliha |
| 04/14/03 at 08:31:27 |
| [slm] Sis, my strongest advice like all the other sisters told you, is STAY AWAY from that guy. Make friends with some good Muslim Sisters, IM me on yahoo, Maliha1423, I would love to chat with you. Seriously though, you have to think about why you like this guy. As a Muslimah you should invest your emotions in people that will help you grow and come closer to Allah. As a Muslimah you should never waste your emotions on someone outside the context of Marriage. Trust me, it leads to nothing but sorrow and regret. Being friends with this guy, with him Knowing how you feel about him will lead you two to something else. Even if you insist you are "just friends", its never going to remain that way. Shaytaan already has an advantage in this situation, the guy knows how you feel about him, taking the next step is too easy! Spend some time cultivating your own Imaan, remember Allah alot, read the Quran, talk to Muslimahs, and don't give yourself time to think about him....its NOT worth it. Take care of your soul sister, we are all on the road back to Allah, what is it that you are gathering to show Allah on the day of Judgement? What life do you want to live? What deeds to you want to disclose in front of the Knower of All the unseen and the Manifest? May Allah give you the courage and strength to resist these fleeting temptations for the His Sake and the Sake of Eternal Bliss (AMIN). Sis, Maliha [wlm] |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Maliha |
| 04/14/03 at 09:23:45 |
| [slm] I was updating my blog..and came across this poem by Rumi that made me think of you...he certainly articulates my thoughts better than I ever could..enjoy! Be with those who help your being Be with those who help your being. Don’t sit with indifferent people, whose breath comes cold out of their mouths. Not these visible forms, your work is deeper. A chunk of dirt thrown in the air breaks to pieces. If you don’t try to fly, and so break yourself apart, you will be broken open by death, when it’s too late for all you could become. Leaves get yellow. The tree puts out fresh roots and makes them green. Why are you so content with a love that turns you yellow? -Rumi |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Muslimah08 |
| 04/14/03 at 17:44:08 |
| [slm] how are you doing today my brothers and sisters.... yall made some very interesting and true and really good points. and i promise i will try my hardest to not get around him....But its gonnna be hard! :-[ :(....well i dunno if yall ever felt this but its llike when u like someone alot...but u kno u cant have them...and u jus settle for friends because at least yal talk...well anyways :-[ ...i PROMISE my hardest not to go anywhere near him but at the same time not hate him.... Chaz- I didnt say i wasnt over him...i jus said...i was trying not to like him anymore...by being JUS FRIENDS but like yall are telling me...i shouldnt! well what i did 2 calm my feelings was( a sis told me this but i dont remember who( plz forgive :-[ :( :) :-* )) i said to myself that Allah (SWT) has someone out there for me....and He oviously didnt want us to be together since he wasnt making it happen! BUT I forgive you ;) :) Everyone again-Well Jazakullah thank you agin for everyone that has helped me! and if anyone can help me and tell me what my name means i would appriciate it! :-/ well ... [wlm] :-) [] |
| 04/14/03 at 17:48:03 |
| Muslimah08 |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/14/03 at 18:01:23 |
| [slm] Sister Maliha and Brother Siddiqui I love the poems may not be 4 me but still loved em jazak Allahu kayron I am crzy about poems specially urdu poetry and Bro Siddiqui your hope poem was also very nice. And sister Maliha your advice was Right on! :-* [quote]well anyways ...i PROMISE my hardest not to go anywhere near him but at the same time not hate him.... [/quote] awesome choice :-* May Allah (swt) Bless you your sis |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Barr |
| 04/15/03 at 05:07:32 |
| Dear sis Sieda, Alhamdulillah, I'm glad you're taking all of this positively :) [quote]well i dunno if yall ever felt this but its llike when u like someone alot...but u kno u cant have them...[/quote] I think a lot of us had our fair share in this situation, sis ;) There's a du'a from a portion of Du'a Istikharah that might help... ...[i]Ya Allah, and if in Your knowledge (this matter) is bad for my religion, my livelihood and my affairs; immediate and the distant, then turn it away from me and turn me away from it. And ordain me the good wherever it be and make me be pleased with it[/i] Allah is the Changer of hearts, and we seek His help to take away such feelings that may tire us out in this deen... and give us peace and tranquility to accept His decree. Give your heart, to the man who deserves it. Meanwhile, take care of that precious thing :) Wassalam :-) ============= P.S. To turn away.. doesn't mean to hate ... :) |
| 04/15/03 at 05:22:34 |
| Barr |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Dude |
| 04/15/03 at 14:48:18 |
Seriously now? What Mrs. Dude did was sit me down, and explain why we couldn?t see each other anymore?she can only marry a Muslim, and it didn?t do her any good to be in love with a non-Muslim. She then offered to bring me over for dinner, and let her father explain Islam as best as possible to me. ?The balls? in your court.? I took the offer. As many here know, my previous beliefs already corresponded with Islam anyhow, so converting was no big deal. Besides, it was all worth it. :) Just a suggestion?if he?s open to learning, and possibly converting, why not? He may be very serious about you too. Isn?t it worth taking the chance, instead of dismissing him because he isn?t Muslim now? There are a lot of good people in the world who aren?t Muslim, but may be compatible. Seems ridiculous to discount them because they aren?t Muslim. But I?m biased. [Edited by Admin] |
| 04/17/03 at 04:55:46 |
| jannah |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/15/03 at 15:08:30 |
| [slm] ok :D Bro Dude im gonna try to catch this and reply bf others :-/ [quote]Seriously now… What Mrs. Dude did was sit me down, and explain why we couldn’t see each other anymore…she can only marry a Muslim, and it didn’t do her any good to be in love with a non-Muslim. She then offered to bring me over for dinner, and let her father explain Islam as best as possible to me. “The balls’ in your court.” I took the offer. As many here know, my previous beliefs already corresponded with Islam anyhow, so converting was no big deal. Besides, it was all worth it. Just a suggestion…if he’s open to learning, and possibly converting, why not? He may be very serious about you too. Isn’t it worth taking the chance, instead of dismissing him because he isn’t Muslim now? There are a lot of good people in the world who aren’t Muslim, but may be compatible. Seems ridiculous to discount them because they aren’t Muslim. But I’m biased. [/quote] Well bro your post make good sense and Alhumdulilah it turned out all good for you (isnt alwayz that way, as you already probly know). But if you notice what she wrote in the beginning. They are not seeing each other and he already said no to her. So now the best thing is 'stay away' :-* Lets say he did like her I think the best thing to do was what your wife did... but brother asap, because when you are together with someone you might do something that is unlawful in Islam and this can cause future problems. such as baby w/o marriage, or if she then has a husband and he finds out about her past, i dont think he will be very happy. I have seen the reason for alot of divorces is also because of past boyfriends/girlfriends (and im talking about nonmuslims) . This is why Islam does not allow relationship before marriage. if you dont agree or have a comment, dont hesitate your sis |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Dude |
| 04/15/03 at 15:42:26 |
| [quote]such as baby w/o marriage[/quote] Wrong, no matter what. No argument there. Although even though it is wrong (i.e.: sin), I'd still argue that it doesn't make that sinner (mother in this example) a bad person or bad mother who can't be forgiven. Another debate for another time. Or not. Current situation aside? I understand this to be inaccurate: [quote]This is why Islam does not allow relationship before marriage. [/quote] That would mean the only possible marriages, by Islamic law, are arranged, or "blind" marriages. Is it perhaps by "relationship", you mean in an intimate context? A friendship is a relationship too. You and I have one through this website, as an example. That doesn't mean I want to marry you. Heck, I know you don't want to marry me...my back is too hairy anyhow. Oh yeah, and I'm married. So hands off, girls. ;) I know you all can't resist. ::) Back on topic... I can understand why intimacy is forbidden. That's how it was explained to me- I accepted it then, and accept it now. Friendships, however, sometimes grow into love. It is entirely possible for a couple to be in love, while not intimate. It is at this point, for arguments sake, that Mrs. Dude (formerly Miss GoingtobeMrs.Dudesomeday) decided to have her chat with me. I wanted the relationship to progress, and she shut me down. >:( Back on topic... She decided that the more difficult path was worth the risk. Instead of making the decision to not see me, she explained her situation to me, and gave me the wherewithal to figure out what I had to do. She put herself at greater emotional risk by doing that. I say, why not. I?m thankful she did. Yes, you may get hurt, but you may be rewarded 1000 times fold. Life is about getting hurt, and about happiness. We experience it all, weather we like it or not. Sometimes you need to measure the risk/reward. ;) [i]I get knocked down...and I get up again...you ain't never gonna keep me down![/i] 8) [Edited by Admin] |
| 04/17/03 at 04:57:40 |
| jannah |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/15/03 at 17:04:46 |
| [slm] [quote]That would mean the only possible marriages, by Islamic law, are arranged, or "blind" marriages.[/quote] No because when you are serious of marrying then that is when you get to know if you will be compatable. (not just to be freinds or date) [quote]A friendship is a relationship too. You and I have one through this website, as an example. That doesn't mean I want to marry you.[/quote] we have the relationship that of understanding. I dont tell you what i do in my house everyday and i dont tell you my deepest darkest secrets right? usually when I talk to you there is a reason for it right (such as a concern in the board or you have a concern/comment, Â or maybe i need to ask yiou something that you are more familiar with than i am) So i guess it depends how you define friendship. [quote]Friendships, however, sometimes grow into love.[/quote] exactly. this is why when we are married its more important to not be friends with the opposite gender. I have heard of many situations people divorce because the person they marry they fell out of love with and starting talking to a 'friend' of the opposite gender bout their problems and eventually fell in love there. Or sometimes you just to talk to friends bout problems (cause thas what friends r 4 right?) this can easily lead to love. And then you unknowingly start comparing your 'friend' to your wife or hubs...and eventually fall out of love w/ your spouse and in love w your 'friend' Im not sure I want my hubbs to have a coupl of 'just friends' and I bet you dont want your wife to do the same. Alot of times when you are friends with the oppostite gender you joke unnecariliy, in some way you can attract the other person. [quote]It is entirely possible for a couple to be in love, while not intimate.[/quote] yah that is true, but like i said your love should only go to the person you are married to. And i said that past gf and bf cause a problem in a future relationship. Also it leads the way to being intimate (thank God she stopped you) . And heartbreak... [quote]Yes, you may get hurt, but you may be rewarded 1000 times fold. Life is about getting hurt, and about happiness. We experience it all, weather we like it or not. Sometimes you need to measure the risk/reward.[/quote] good point. This is why Islam protects us from facing corruption. ofcourse you are gonna get hurt in life anyway (most likely one way or another) but why not follow the will of God to prevent getting more hurt. You see people need guidance and men are not perfect. Who is perfect? God Almighty. So the best guidance is from God right? Why would God send us down in life without guidance? you see everything Allah (swt) tells us to do or not to do, there is wisdom behind it. Maybe insh'Allah when you learn more about Islam and read the translation of Qur'an you will slowly understand that. Sometimz what we think is right, is not always right. I also want to tell you that I never read in Qur'an or hadith that says we canT be 'friends' w/ the opp gender. But in Qur'an it does say to lower the gaze (to both men and woman) and also zina is haram. In hadith it says anything that leads to zina should be avoided. I am not good at explaining things so if anyone else wants to add or can explain a little better? Im not sure if I actually replied to what you were saying....? I might not have said everything right...Allah (swt)knows best Anyway if i find a good article on this or anything i will post it and you have to read it ok! no buts, i said and thats it ;D take care your SISTER ;D |
| 04/15/03 at 22:22:30 |
| a_Silver_Rose |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/15/03 at 17:34:16 |
| 4got this [quote]Although even though it is wrong (i.e.: sin), I'd still argue that it doesn't make that sinner (mother in this example) a bad person or bad mother who can't be forgiven. Another debate for another time. Or not. [/quote] no debate needed. I agree. |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/15/03 at 22:19:07 |
| [slm] i wanted to add more what i mentioned here: [quote]Quote:It is entirely possible for a couple to be in love, while not intimate. yah that is true, but like i said your love should only go to the person you are married to. And i said that past gf and bf cause a problem in a future relationship. Also it leads the way to being intimate (thank God she stopped you) . And heartbreak... [/quote] Sometimz when people fall in love for the first time, they might be young and naive. Many girls have a hard time saying 'no' to a guy they love very much. So the girl is young will do anything for this guy , then what? she has to suffer her whole life, from the guilt or maybe if she ended up having a baby. So love can really lead to this. So this is also for protection. girls can really get into 'sweet-talkin' and some guys will do anything to get they what they want. At the same time their are many girls who will lead a guy on and also use him for money. I have seen many being 'used and abused' around here. If it wasnt for parents and Islam i know that I would have been way down that path. you know I tend to joke alot... I have learned that I really need to watch what I say now and refrain from joking too much cause anyone can be attracted to that because some people cannot help their feelings. And somtimz married men even forget they are married! here are some interesting question/answer segregation of the sexes http://islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=3105 Falling in love while young http://islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=3052 take care your sista |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Dude |
| 04/16/03 at 08:13:58 |
| I guess all I can say is that, at a certain point in life, one knows if they've met the right person. There is a difference between infatuation and love. I've been infatuated many a time, smitten, and charmed...but only in love once. When you meet that person, that's when the tough decisions are made- religious values or not. This continues on in later life. You're correct about relationships outside of marriage...best to avoid. That said, I don't think it is possible to fall in love with another woman (or man) if you are already in love with one...but that's just me. I find the idea of a man having more than one marriage hypocritical. That said, I stand by my original point: sometimes you may meet someone that, for all intents and purposes shouldn't be compatible (wrong color, faith, background...or all of the above like Dude & Mrs. Dude), but for some reason, you fall in love anyhow. You have two choices: end the friendship and stop communicating altogether (which seems to be the popular opinion here), or take similar steps as we did. We decided it was God's fate that we were put together, his decision. And yes- the rewards for taking the difficult path are 1000 times fold. Risk = reward. "It's the [i]hard[/i] that makes it great." ;) |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| jannah |
| 04/16/03 at 08:35:01 |
| dude ur in all likelihood giving advice to a high school girl to take a crush seriously and take steps against her own faith i'm not sure if that is your opinion, but the implication is there and i don't think it is one that is responsibly given to a young girl. assumedly she came here for islamic advice. if she hadn't she would have gone to dr. phil's site. and assumedly she wants advice on what to do with this situation and how to stop 'liking this boy' (because it is haram to have relationships outside of marriage and added to that is the fact muslim women cannot marry nonmuslim men) that is actually what she says in her first email i'm not discounting the struggle you went through with your wife and whether it was right or wrong. that is your issue. that may be your concept of love, but it is not necessarily others. what you said about more than one marriage is not necessarily compatible with islam since islam allows multiple marriage. risk when it is in disobedience of God does not = reward, it = punishment and detrimental effects in this life and the next as for previous posts, obviously it is her own choice, no one is saying otherwise |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Dude |
| 04/16/03 at 10:47:28 |
| So nice, you had to say it twice, eh? ;) I'm not giving advice; I'm sharing an experience. Up above I wrote something like "regardless of this situation". In the case of this young lady, I’d agree that it is probably wise to focus on school for now, and this infatuation will eventually pass. My arguments are besides her personal situation. I don’t think you’re being condescending to me or any other non-Muslim, just shortsighted. I don't think my wife disobeyed God, as you suggest. What I'm trying to get across is that sometimes life gets in the way of an ideal situation. Most of us here are in the West, therefore, the majority of people you will come in contact with are Westerners, and may not be of the same faith. In my wife's case, we were placed in the same set (lab classes) in college. We spent every day together in labs. I'll take the blame: I pursued her like no tomorrow. As she jokingly says, it was either file the retraining order ;D (again: joke), or introduce me to her parents. I think she was hoping her Dad would scare me off. ::) Also, to suggest that I found faith first, and then decided to get married second is inaccurate. I clearly would not have been introduced to Islam had I not been interested in Mrs. Dude. It wouldn't have even occurred to me. It is coincidental that after Islam was introduced to me, I recognized that the laws of Islam corresponded with my own personal beliefs. Hence, the Shahada was a mere formality. I was already in belief that Allah (God) is one and one only, and the belief that Mohammed was his messenger also in correspondence with my beliefs (it helped confirm some thoughts of mine, and doubts I had regarding Christianity). I guess the point I’m trying to get across is that it is shortsighted to turn someone away whom cares about you, simply because of cultural, religious, or ethnic differences. Of course, it makes it that much more difficult to control urges and such, but that’s the responsibility of the individual. But, you never know if that person is compatible. In my case, it introduced me to Islam, and I wouldn’t otherwise have been. As a connection, it has also introduced my side of the family, and a lot of previous misconceptions about Islam and Muslims have been removed as a result. It’s turned into a huge win/win for both families. One of the wise men of this forum stated a while back “to build bridges, not walls”. It’s easier to build a wall than a bridge. A wall is simply a slab of concrete or wood, stood up on end. A bridge needs support, strong foundation, investment, engineering time, approval from various levels of government (parents), and a larger crew to build. It is also permanent. Man, that’s deep. 8) |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| lightningatnite |
| 04/16/03 at 12:35:57 |
| [slm] As a general rule, when a Muslim searches for a spouse, it should be based on deen. This is according to the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, and will lead to our happiness in this life and the hereafter. Sister, whenever you go against the shariah, you are going with your hawaa'. Hawaa' is the internal whims of the self that shaitan uses to cast people into the hellfire. ANYTIME we go against the shariah, we are following the winds of the hawaa. Thats the bottom line. As for the case of the husband taking a non-Muslim wife, this is an exceptional case. Rules are not based on exceptions. Many scholars point out that this is can be allowed in societies where Islam is dominant and strong, where the husband would control the religion of his children (even if a divorce were to happen). This is certainly not the case in the west. Besides this, Islam prohibts marriage of a Muslim man to a non-virgin Christian or Jew. So it would rarely happen in today's world. Dude, if your claim to Islam is authentic, please have the words [Madina Seeker] removed from your name, and abide by all the rules of Islam on this board. You will have rights on us, and we will have rights on you. You must return our salaams. You must refrain from misguidance and misguiding others. You cannot defend the right of other entities to commit transgressions. In Islam, you cannot deny any of its teachings that are agreed upon by the ulema. Denying any major ruling (for ex. that alcohol is forbidden) will take one out of Islam. What you do in your personal life is your business. However, fear Allah. If however, and as you've stated in the past, you question some of the pillars of Islam, or converted to facilitate marriage only, you are no longer a Muslim. Your marriage is invalidated. You have betrayed the Muslim community, but most importantly God. Humble yourself before God. This forum is called Madinat al-Muslimeen. The city of the Muslims. Non-Muslims are welcome, provided they do not misguide others. A Muslim who rejects Islam in his heart may be welcome as long as outwardly he strives to practice Islam and accepts its doctrine. I have mentioned the above to the moderators, however its seems that they couldn't communicate this to you in private. One major problem we have as Muslims is we have distanced ourselves from the shayukh and people of knowledge. We need to look to them for guidance and instruction. |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Dude |
| 04/16/03 at 13:14:52 |
| [quote]Dude, if your claim to Islam is authentic, please have the words [Madina Seeker] removed from your name, and abide by all the rules of Islam on this board. You will have rights on us, and we will have rights on you. You must return our salaams. You must refrain from misguidance and misguiding others. You cannot defend the right of other entities to commit transgressions. In Islam, you cannot deny any of its teachings that are agreed upon by the ulema. Denying any major ruling (for ex. that alcohol is forbidden) will take one out of Islam. What you do in your personal life is your business. However, fear Allah. If however, and as you've stated in the past, you question some of the pillars of Islam, or converted to facilitate marriage only, you are no longer a Muslim. Your marriage is invalidated. You have betrayed the Muslim community, but most importantly God. Humble yourself before God. [/quote] I don't know you, and you certainly don't know me. I don't think I put the "Madina Seeker" there, and really, I don't know how to remove it. If you're a mod, go ahead and remove it. I'm not loosing sleep over a tag someone else gave me. As for anything else, I've told my story enough times to hopefully explain my situation. I'm sort of done with that, I think. I certainly don't have to justify myself to you. This is just another example of certain close-minded people of this site (like yourself) taking another opportunity to knock down anybody you deem "not worthy". I saw the title as interesting, and as something I had some personal experience in. You've taken the stance that it's acceptable to insult me, and my family, and I'm here to tell you that is completely not acceptable, and as far as I'm concerned, you've just shown me what kind of person you are and motives you really have. If you want to continue via IM, that’s fine. I’ve said my Peace. |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| Nistar |
| 04/16/03 at 14:57:09 |
| OK -- I have a question... I have a couple of friends who have "promised" themselves to each other (both are muslim). Meaning, they believe they were "meant" for each other -- and when God will it, they will get married (ie: when parents from country X can meet parents from country Y, and when both are finished with schooling -- and if it truly is in the Plan). Until then, the two are simply remaining friends -- continuing to work through the local MSA and the like... Is this a "relationship" outside of Islamic boundaries then? With peace, Nistar |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| mr-bean |
| 04/16/03 at 15:19:59 |
| [slm] i can tell you horror stories relating to that for example, in one msa there was a very active girl and a very active boy. they even used to pray tahajjud toghether. they waited for their parents to finalize things. it never happened. and they never got over it. for over 10 years they went through misery. the girl got married to someone else and then divorced. (perhaps you can guess why). and the boy went through depression for over 10 years. he is now married, but not happy. he used to tell me of his respect for one sheikh who upgraded a certain hadith to hasan which stated that if one dies out of longing for someone then one is a martyr. this brother felt like he was dying.... so this is what can happen to super pious people who even pray tahajjud and are so strict in other matters, but somewhat lax in the associating with the opposite gender. they were never even "involved" they just respected each other very much. when they did this: they should have either gotten married then and there, or simply avoided each other. if you know who you want to marry, you should do it right away. what is the point of waiting. people get boyfriends and girlfriends all the time. getting married young can be thought of as getting a halal boyfriend or girlfriend which then becomes converted to a proper husband or wife when you've graduated and have a job etc.. |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/16/03 at 15:42:51 |
| [slm] Wow lot of answers here... Brother Dude you are right about infatuation and love being different, (what I am talking about) is though I think they were actually in love. Allah (swt) knows best. "We always believe our first love is our last, and our last love our first." As for being in love with more than one person, I have actually heard a man say that. Again Allah (swt) knows best. One thing to remember is though for a happy relationship to work you dont have to be 'in love' you have to care and be kind. Another thing to remmeber is even in Islam 'one woman, one man' is ideal. It is clear in Qur'an. I agree completely with Chris...your wife did a smart thing and Mash'Allah her parents also seem understandable because there seem to be very few parents like that. I am personally really happy you talk about your family because I learn alot from it. And what her parents did seems to be very good advice I can give to a lot of people. So please keep sharing your experiences. [...] he is extremely right about hia advice to Nistargetting married and if you really cant then avoid each other. If it is meant to happen, it will happen. I have heard of many real life experiences of what is mr. Bean is talking about also. I would suggest making lots of du'a because that really really helps. Also make dua' for her that whatever is best for her will happen. If it doesnt get her the guy she wants then after asking Allah (swt) help she will know maybe he wasnt meant for her and she will be able to cope with it alot better, insh'Allah. take care Keep da Peace Your Sister [Edited by Admin] |
| 04/17/03 at 04:52:57 |
| jannah |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| jannah |
| 04/16/03 at 16:38:35 |
| The main issue here and that has come up again and again in the last year is people giving advice that goes against the teachings of Islam (muslims & non). Everyone has a right to their opinion but this has grave consequences. This is something else we'll probably have to look at before we change the constitution on may 1st. Let me know if anyone else has suggestions for other things. btw Madina Seeker is manually added to a profile by admin just so people know who's who. although it's still hard to keep track of who's who most of the time. we're still working on a place for a person to put their 'religious affiliation' but again it seems like a label and not defineable sometimes so perhaps Madina Seeker is the best way. Putting info in the profile biography seems to be a good way to explain things to ppl. |
| 04/16/03 at 16:39:48 |
| jannah |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/16/03 at 23:03:59 |
| [slm] I Just want to mention that if you go and read back my posts I explained to Dude that the guy had said no to her. So after that Dude wasnt giving any advice to her. Also in my post I wrote saying that just incase they guy did say yes then this is seems to be the Islamic point of view (I was explaining to Dude) and I told him to write back what he thinks (so basically he was just understand and replying to that . He wasnt giving advice to the girl anymore just making some points. so i am the one who started that.  Please read the posts more carefully plz . .. I also want to say that their are many different points of view in Islam. Its not always necessary that one is right.  Whatever is usually 'right' is a part of Islam.  So even if you dont know Islam and you are saying something 'right' then that is actually Islamic advice one thing Dude said that I didnt reply too: [quote]That said, I stand by my original point: sometimes you may meet someone that, for all intents and purposes shouldn't be compatible (wrong color, faith, background...or all of the above like Dude & Mrs. Dude), but for some reason, you fall in love anyhow. You have two choices: end the friendship and stop communicating altogether (which seems to be the popular opinion here), or take similar steps as we did. We decided it was God's fate that we were put together, his decision. And yes- the rewards for taking the difficult path are 1000 times fold. [/quote] This is very true and what  is written is written. Noone can change that.  This one revert thought she was going to marry a guy from so and so country. So she learned everything about that country, but you know what , she ended up marrying from a completely different country.  People here want to end the friendship when/because there is no use in it now. I think what your wife did was right. But I also think that if you said no then she should move on (b/c for respect of her religion) and maybe later you yourself will learn could have learned about Islam, met in a toltally different country and been able to get married. What Im saying is if its meant to happen it will, and stuff like that does happen! So you should not just back off and do what you can. your wife did the right thing and then you had to make the decision.  nobody is saying to lose all the hope altogether. you can still have hope and move on. She should trust God and move on and if its meant to be it will happen. She can always have a little hope that he becomes muslim and starts likeing her back ...and that is natural. We cannot help having that little hope. and miracles do occur. But in the meantime Trust Allah (swt)/God and do what HE likes best. and then HE will reward you 1000 timz fold (just like HE did to you guys) phew that was long.... hope it made sense your sister PEACE |
| 04/16/03 at 23:06:50 |
| a_Silver_Rose |
| Re: Liking a guy that isn't Muslim... |
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| jannah |
| 04/17/03 at 05:04:00 |
| [slm] I believe the sisters original question was answered. InshaAllah she can post us some updates soon ;) PS I've removed some posts that address an issue that has come up in the Madina a number of times in past years. InshaAllah I'll post an 'official stance' in the Madina HQ soon. |
| 04/17/03 at 05:06:22 |
| jannah |
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