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Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve etc et

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Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve etc et
Rameeza
04/09/03 at 15:38:47
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[slm]
Some of my Christian friends were talking about the story of ADam and Eve and how they begot Kane n  Abel and the feud between the two etc etc.

WHat does Islam say on this story?  ???

Plus I thought that when Adam and Eve were cast out of heaven they were sent down to Earth? My Christian friends say that Genesis says that the Garden of Eden is on Earth.

I have heard stories as a kid that they were sent down to Earth seperately and toiled for a long time before finding each other etc.
My christian friends say that the bible [genesis] says nothing of the sort.

Last but not least, what is the hebrew/arabic name for Kane and Abel?

Jazaka Allah!!!   [] [] []

Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
Emerald
04/09/03 at 19:54:32
In Arabic, their names are Habeel & Qabeel.
The other day I was flipping through the channels on tv (really early in the morning) and I came across this Christian minister who was doing a fatwa type of thing. He was responding to letters and answering questions. Anyway, one of the questions brought up was about Habeel & Qabeel..which I thought was quite interesting and something I hadn't known. According to their beliefs, the good brother (and I really forgot who it is because their names are so similar,lol) was from Adam's seed and the bad one was from the devil's seed! Just thought it would be nice to tell if it wasn't already known.
Well, according to what I've been taught Adam was in the company of the angels. (Surat al-Baqara...when they prostrated to him except Iblis) plus he ate from a fruit (unknown) tree in paradise.  
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
theOriginal
04/10/03 at 00:46:57
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One killed the other because he was jealous that the other one got the girl ;) ...but he wasn't EVIL, per se.

In fact, I heard this really nice story about how after he killed his brother (I don't know which is which), the other one sat there crying, because he didn't know what to do with his dead brother (since he was the first dead person on Earth.)  Anyway, as he sat there kicking himself (not literally), he observed a crow burying another dead crow by placing pebbles over its body.  (God sent, I'm sure.)  That's how he learnt what to do with the body.  

A continuation of the same story....after Hadhrat Adam (As), and Hawah found out that their son was dead, Hadhrat Adam noticed that Eve was about to start crying, which he didn't want her to do, since it would set a precedent for all females to come.  That's WHYYYYYYYY we are so emotional  :'(

I don't believe the Garden of Eden is on Earth.

Wasalaam.
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
Dawn
04/10/03 at 06:37:44
[slm]

Hoping to positively contribute to the conversation here.   :)

[quote author=Emerald link=board=lighthouse;num=1049917127;start=0#1 date=04/09/03 at 19:54:32]According to their beliefs, the good brother (and I really forgot who it is because their names are so similar,lol) was from Adam's seed and the bad one was from the devil's seed! Just thought it would be nice to tell if it wasn't already known.
[/quote]
Well, it would appear that this particular minister was confusing his sources on the issue of Cain's parentage.  Here is the original (in translation, of course):

Genesis 4:1-2 [i]"Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain.  She said, "With the help of the Lord I have brought forth a man."  Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.  Now Able kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil.[/i]

I think what he might have been referring to is a verse from the Christian new testament which says in effect that Cain was "of the evil one" because of his deeds.  (For those who want references, see 1 John 3:12.)  Possibly the translation the minister was using had rendered that as "of the seed of".  Hard to say for sure, but certainly possible.

[quote]One killed the other because he was jealous that the other one got the girl. [/quote]  
Close!  It was jealousy according to the record in Genesis, but not over women.   ;)  I think the same is true in the Qur'an.  (Al-Ma'idah 27-30) Again, here is the original from the Jewish/Christian scriptures:

Genesis 4:3-8 [i]In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord.  But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock.  The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor.  So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.  Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry?  Why is your face downcast?  If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?  But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."  Now Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let's go out to the field."  And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.[/i]

As for the rest of the story about him burying his brother after watching the birds, etc., it is in the Jewish Talmud (not part of the Bible as composed today), only I think there it is Adam and Eve to whom the birds demonstrate burial. Whereas in the Qur'an (Al-Ma'idah 31)  the birds show themselves to the one which had killed his brother.


04/10/03 at 06:39:00
Dawn
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
theOriginal
04/10/03 at 10:26:10
[slm]

Heh..thanks for the clarifications.  :)
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
jannah
04/10/03 at 10:39:29
[wlm]

This is from Ibn Kathir.. Scroll down for the stuff on Qabil and Habil....

The Story of Adam

Allah the Almighty revealed: «And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: 'Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allah) said: "I know that which you do not know."

And He taught Adam all the names (of everything), then He showed them to the angels and said: "Tell Me the names of these if you are truthful." They (angels) said: "Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Verily, it is You, the All-Knower, the All-Wise."

He said: "O Adam! Inform them of their names," and when he had informed them of their names, He said: "Did I not tell you that I know the Ghaib (unseen) in the heavens and the earth, and I know what you reveal and what you have been concealing?"

And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves before Adam." And they prostrated except Iblis, he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allah)."

And We said: "O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight of things therein as wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of the Zalimeen (wrong-doers)."

Then the Satan made them slip therefrom (the Paradise), and got them out from that in which they were. We said: "Get you down, all, with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be a dwelling place for you and an enjoyment for a time."

Then Adam received from his Lord Words. And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful.

We said: "Get down all of you from this place (the Paradise), then whenever there comes to you Guidance from Me, and whoever follows My Guidance, there shall be no fear on them, nor shall they grieve. But those who disbelieve and belie Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) such are the dwellers of the Fire, they shall abide therein forever."» Surah 2: 30-39

Almighty Allah also revealed: «And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated, except Iblis, he refused to be of those who prostrate.

(Allah) said: "What prevented you (O Iblis) that you did not prostrate, when I commanded you?"

(Iblis) said: "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay."

(Allah) said: "O Iblis, get down from this (Paradise), it is not for you to be arrogant here. Get out, for you are of those humiliated and disgraced."

(Iblis) said: "Allow me respite till the Day they are raised up (i.e. The Day of Resurrection)."

(Allah) said: "You are of those allowed respite."

(Iblis) said: "Because You have sent me astray, surely I will sit in wait against them (human beings) on Your Straight Path. Then I will come to them from before them and behind them, from their right and from their left, and You will not find most of them as thankful ones (i.e. they will not be dutiful to You)."

(Allah) said (to Iblis): "Get out from this (Paradise) disgraced and expelled. Whoever of them (mankind) will follow you, then surely I will fill Hell with you all."

"And O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in Paradise, and eat thereof as you both wish, but approach not this tree otherwise you both will be of the Zalimeen (unjust and wrong-doers)."

Then Satan whispered suggestions to them both in order to uncover that which was hidden from them of their private parts (before); he said: "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree save you should become angels or become of the immortals." And he (Satan) swore by Allah to them both (saying): "Verily, I am one of the sincere well-wishers for you both."

So he misled them with deception. Then when they tasted of the tree, that which was hidden from them of their shame (private parts) became manifest to them and they began to stick together the leaves of Paradise over themselves (in order to cover their shame). And their Lord called out to them (saying): "Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you: Verily, Satan is an open enemy unto you?"

They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers." Allah said: "Get down, one of you an enemy to the other (i.e. Adam, Eve, and Satan, etc.). On earth will be a dwelling-place for you and an enjoyment, -for a time." He said: "Therein you shall live, and therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought out (i.e., resurrected). » Surah 7: 11-25

We imagine when Allah the Almighty decided to create Adam: He addressed His angels and told them to prostrate before him. He did not mean to ask their opinion or take their advice, for He is above that. Allah the Exalted told them that He was going to create a vicegerant on the earth who would have children and grandchildren who would corrupt the earth and shed each other's blood. That is why the angels said to Allah the Almighty: «"Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood!"» Surah 2: 30

There are old traditions about the angels before the creation of Adam. According to Ibn Qatadah, it was said that the angels were informed about the creation of Adam and his progeny by the jinn who lived before Adam. 'Abdullah Ibn 'Umar said that the jinn had existed for about two thousand years before Adam and then shed blood. Therefore, Allah sent on them an army of angels that drove them out to the depths of the seas. Ibn Abi Hatim narrated from Ali Ja'far Al-Baqer that the angels were informed that man would cause wickedness and shed blood on earth. It was also said that they knew that no one would be created on earth who would not be wicked and shed blood.

Whether or not these traditions are correct, the angels did understand that Allah would create a vicegerant on earth. Allah the Almighty announced that He was going to create a human being out of clay, that He would mold him and blow His spirit into him, and then the angels should prostrate before him.

Abi Musa Al-Sha'ara'i narrated that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: "Allah created Adam from a handful of dust taken from different lands, so the children of Adam have been created according to the composition of the land. Therefore, from mankind we have white, red, black and yellow ones; we have good and evil, ease and sorrow, and what comes in between them." Sahih Al-Bukhari


Ibn Mas'ud and other companions of the Prophet (PBUH) said that Allah the Almighty sent Gabriel onto the earth to get Him clay therefrom. The earth said: "I seek refuge in Allah from your decreasing my quantity or disfiguring me." So Gabriel returned and did not take anything. And he said: "My Lord, the land sought refuge in You, and it was granted."

So Allah sent Michael for the same purpose, and the land sought refuge with Allah and it was granted. So he went back and said to Allah what Gabriel had said before him.

Then Allah sent the Angel of Death, and the land sought refuge in Allah. The angel said: "I also seek refuge with Allah from returning without carrying out His command." So he took clay from the face of the earth and mixed it. He did not take from one particular place, but rather he took white, red, and black clay (from different places).

The Angel of Death ascended with it, and He (Allah) soaked the clay till it became sticky. Then Allah said to the angels: «"Truly, I am going to create man from clay. So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him."» Surah 38: 71-72


So Allah shaped Adam into a human being, but he remained a figure of clay for forty years. The angels went past him. They were seized with fear by what they saw, and Iblis felt this fear most. He used to pass by the figure of Adam, buffetting it, which would make a sound like pottery. Allah told us: «He created man (Adam) from sounding clay like the clay of pottery.» Surah 55: 14

When the time drew near to breathe the spirit into Adam, as Allah the Almighty decreed, He commanded the angels: "When I breathe My spirit into him prostrate before him" Allah breathed His spirit into Adam and when it reached his head Adam sneezed. The angels said: "Say all praise belongs to Allah." Adam repeated: "All praise belongs to Allah." Allah said to him: "Your Lord has granted you mercy." When the spirit reached his eyes, Adam looked at the fruits of Paradise. When it reached his abdomen Adam felt an appetite for food. He jumped hurriedly before the spirit could reach his legs, so that he could eat from the fruits of Paradise. Allah, therefore, said: «"Man is created of haste.» Surah 21:37. And then: «The angels prostrated themselves, all of them together. Except Iblis - he refused to be among the prostrators. » Surah 15: 31-32

Abu Hurairah narrated that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: "Allah created Adam from dust after He mixed the clay and left him for some time until it became sticky mud, after which Allah shaped him. After that Allah left him till it became like potter's clay. Iblis used to go past him saying: 'You have been created for a great purpose.' After that Allah breathed His spirit into him. The first thing into which the spirit passed was his eye and then his nose. He sneezed. Allah said.: 'May your Lord have mercy upon you, O Adam! Go to those angels and see what they would say.' So Adam went and greeted them. They replied saying: 'Peace be upon you and the mercy and blessings of Allah.' Allah said: 'O Adam! This is your greeting and that of your offspring." Sahih Al-Bukhari


Allah the Almighty revealed: «And (remember) when you Lord brought forth from the children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam's loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes! We testify," lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: "Verily, we have been unaware of this." Or lest you should say: "It was only our fathers aforetime who took others as partners in worship along with Allah, and we were (merely their) descendants after them; will you then destroy us because of the deeds of men who practiced Al-Batil (i.e. polytheism and committing crimes and sins, invoking and worshipping others besides Allah)?"

Thus do We explain the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) in detail, so that they may turn (unto the truth).» Surah 7: 172- 174

Adam's progeny declared: "Our Lord, we bear witness that You are our Lord; we have no other Lord but Allah." Allah raised their father Adam, and he looked at them and saw those of them who were rich, those who were poor, those who had good forms and those who did not. Adam said: "O Allah! I wish You to make Your servants equal." Allah replied: "I love being thanked." Adam saw among the prophets like lamps among his progeny.

Almighty Allah declared: «And (remember) when We took from the Prophets their covenant, and from you (O Muhammad), and from Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus-son of Mary. We took from them a strong covenant.» Surah 33: 7

In another verse Allah the Exalted commanded: «"So set you (O Muhammad) your face towards the religion of pure Islamic Monotheism Hanifan (worship none but Allah Alone) Allah's Fitrah (i.e. Allah's Islamic Monotheism), with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in khalqillah (i.e. the Religion of Allah - Islamic Monotheism), that is the straight religion, but most men know not."» Surah 30:30

Another version of the story relates that Allah took a handful of the dust of the earth and mixed into it the colors white, black, yellow, and red. That is the reason why men are born different colors. When Allah mixed the dust with water, it turned into potter's clay that makes a sound. It was fermented and had a smell. Iblis passed by, wondering what was going to be made of that clay. From the clay Allah created Adam. He molded his form with His own hands and blew His spirit into him. Adam's body quivered as life was imbued into it. «Verily, His Command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it, "Be!" - and it is!» Surah 37: 82
Allah the Almighty declared: «Verily, the likeness of Jesus, in Allah's Sight is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!"- and he was.» Surah 3: 59

Adam opened his eyes and saw all the angels prostrating before him except one being who was standing at a distance.

Adam did not know what kind of creature it was that did not prostrate before him, nor did he know its name. Iblis was standing with the angels so as to be included in the command given to them, but he was not one of them. He was a jinn, and, as such he was supposed to be inferior to the angels. What is clear is that this prostration was to show respect and did not mean that the angels were worshiping Adam. Prostrating, in worship is done only for Allah.

Almighty Allah recounted the story of Iblis's refusal to prostrate before Adam: «And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud. So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him" So, the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together. Except Iblis, - he refused to be among the prostrators. (Allah) said: "O Iblis! What is your reason for not being among the prostrators?" (Iblis) said: "I am not the one to prostrate myself to a human being, whom You created from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud." (Allah) said: "Then, get out from here, for verily, you are Rajim (an outcast or a cursed one). And verily, the curse shall be upon you till the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)."» Surah 15: 28-35

In another surah Almighty Allah recounted it thus: «And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam" and they prostrated, except Iblis, he refused to be of those who prostrate.

(Allah) said: 'What prevented you (O Iblis) that you did not prostrate, when I commanded you?" Iblis said: "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay." Allah said: "(O Iblis) get down from this (Paradise), it is not for you to be arrogant here. Get out, for you are of those humiliated and disgraced." (Iblis) said: "Allow me respite till the Day they are raised up (i.e. The Day of Resurrection)." Allah said: "You are of those allowed respite."» Surah 7: 11-15

Ibn Jarir reported that Muhammad Ibn Sirin said that the first one to reach a conclusion by reasoning was Iblis and that the sun and moon were not worshiped except through this method.

This means that Iblis tried to compare himself to Adam. He believed that he was more honorable than Adam: Therefore, he abstained from prostrating, even though Allah had commanded him to do so, just as He had commanded the angels.

If an analogy is made, we see that Iblis is vain. For indeed, clay is better than fire because in it can be found the qualities of calmness, clemency, perseverance, and growth; whereas in fire can be found heedlessness, insignificance, haste, and incineration.

Iblis tried in vain to justify his refusal: «"Shall I prostrate to one whom You created from clay?" (Iblis) said: "See? This one whom You have honored above me, if You give me respite (keep me alive) to the Day of Resurrection, I will surely seize and mislead his offspring (by sending them astray) all but a few!"» Surah 17: 62

Adam was following what was happening around him and had feelings of love, awe, and astonishment. Deep love of Allah, Who had created and glorified him and Who had made His angels prostrate before him. Awe of the Creator's wrath when He excluded Iblis from His mercy. Adam was surprised by this creature, Iblis, who abhored him without even knowing him, and who imagined himself better than Adam without having proved that he was worthier. What a strange creature Iblis was, and how strange was his excuse for not prostrating!

He imagined that fire is better than clay, but how did he get such an idea? Such knowledge is exclusive to Allah Who created fire and clay and Who knows which is the better of the two.

From the dialogue Adam realised that Iblis was a creature characterised by cunning and ingratitude. He then knew that Iblis was his eternal enemy. He was greatly astonished at Iblis's audacity and Allah's tolerance. Immediately after his creation, Adam witnessed the large amount of freedom that Allah gives to His commissioned creatures.

Allah knew that Iblis was not going to obey Him in prostrating before Adam. Allah could have totally annihilated him or turned him into a handful of dust or stifled the refusal in his mouth. Yet, Allah gives His commissioned creatures absolute freedom even to the extent that they can refuse Allah the Almighty's commands. He grants them the freedom of denial, disobedience, and even disagreement with Him.

His kingdom will not diminish if the disbelievers do not believe in Him, nor will it be extended if many people believe in Him. On the contrary, the disbelievers will lose, and the believers will gain, but Allah is above all of that.

There were many traditions about Iblis at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Ibn Mas'ud, Ibn 'Abbas, and a group of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said that Iblis had been the head of the angels in the worldly heavens. Ibn 'Abbas said in one narration that his name had been 'Azazil, and in another narration he said it had been Al-Harith. Ibn 'Abbas also said that Iblis was a jinn and that they had once been the keepers of Paradise, with Iblis the most honorable, the most learned and the most pious of them. Another tradition says that he had been one of the famous four possessors of wings (i.e. angels), before Allah transformed him into the accursed Satan.

Allah Almighty recounts Iblis's disobedience in another surah: «(Remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Truly, I am going to create man from clay. So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him." So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them: except Iblis, he was proud and was one of the disbelievers.

(Allah) said: "O Iblis! What prevents you from prostrating yourself to one whom I have created with Both My Hands. Are you too proud (to fall prostrate to Adam) or are you one of the high exalted?" (Iblis) said: "I am better than he, You created me from fire, and You created him from clay."

(Allah) said: "Then get you from here, for verily, you are outcast. And verily!, My Curse is on you till the Day of Recompense." (Iblis) said: "My Lord! Give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are resurrected." Allah said. "Verily! You are of those allowed respite - till the Day of the time appointed." Iblis said: "By Your Might, then I will surely mislead them all, - except Your chosen slaves amongst them (faithful, obedient, true believers of Islamic Monotheism)."

(Allah) said: "The truth is, and the truth I say, - that I will fill Hell with you (Iblis) and those of them (mankind) that follow you, together. "»Surah 38: 71-85

After this lesson about freedom, Adam learned another lesson, one about knowledge. Adam realized that Iblis was the symbol of evil in the universe and that the angels were the symbol of good. However, he did not yet know anything about himself. Then Allah made him perceive his true identity, the reason for his creation, and the secret of his glorification.

Allah the Exalted said: «And He taught Adam all the names (of everything).» Surah 2:31

Almighty Allah granted Adam the power to know the natures of all things and to summarize them by names: that is a bird, that is a star, that is a tree, that is a cloud, etc. Allah implanted in Adam an insatiable need for and love of knowledge and a desire to bequeath knowledge to his children. This was the reason for his creation and the secret in his glorification.

After Adam had learned the names of all things, along with their properties and uses, Allah presented them to the angels and said: «"Tell Me the names of these if you are truthful."» Surah 2:31. The angels admitted their inability: «"Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Verily, it is You, The All-Knower, The All-Wise. "» Surah 2:32

Allah Almighty then turned to Adam: «"O Adam! inform them of their names," and when he had informed them of their names, He said: "Did I not tell you that I know the Ghaib (unseen) in the heavens and the earth, and I know what you reveal and what you have been concealing?"» Surah 2: 33

Allah wanted the angels to know that He knew of their astonishment when He had told them about the creation of Adam and that He also knew of their confusion which they had not revealed, as well as what Iblis had concealed of his disobedience and ingratitude.

The angels realized that Adam was the creature who knew what they did not know and that his capacity to learn was his noblest quality. His knowledge included knowledge of the Creator which we call Faith or Islam, as well as the knowledge he would need to inhabit and master the earth. All kinds of worldly knowledge which are included in this.

Adam knew the names of everything. Sometimes he talked to the angels, but they were preoccupied with worshiping Almighty Allah. Therefore, Adam felt lonely. One day he slept and when he awoke he found, near his head, a woman gazing at his face with beautiful, tender eyes. Perhaps they had the following conversation:

Adam: You were not here before I slept.
She: Yes.
He: From what...?
She: I came out of you. Allah created me while you were asleep. Do you not desire to restore me to you while you are awake?
He: Why has Allah created you?
She: To be your solace.
He: Thanks to Allah I was feeling lonely.

The angels asked him her name. He replied: "Eve (Hawwa)." They asked: "Why did you call her Eve?" Adam said: "Because she was created of me, and I am a living being."

Ibn 'Abbas and a group of the companions of the Prophet (PBUH) narrated that when Iblis was sent out of Paradise and Adam was accommodated therein, Adam was alone in Paradise and did not have a partner from whom he could get tranquillity. He slept for some time and when he woke up, he saw a woman whom Allah had created from his ribs. So he asked her: "Who are you?" She replied: "A woman." He asked: "Why have you been created?" She replied: "So that you could find tranquillity in me." The angels, trying to find out the extent of his knowledge, asked him: "What is her name, O Adam?" He replied: "Eve." They asked: "Why was she so named?" He replied: "Because she was created from something living."

Muhammad Ibn Ishaaq and Ibn 'Abbas related that Eve was created from the shortest left rib of Adam while he was sleeping, and after a while she was clothed with flesh. That is why Allah the Exalted said: «O Mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam) and from him (Adam) He created his wife (Eve), and from them both He created many men and women.» Surah 4:1. Allah also said: «It is He Who has created you from a single person (Adam), and (then) He created from him his wife (Eve), in order that he might enjoy the pleasure of living with her.» Surah 7:189

Abu Hurairah narrated that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: "O Muslims! I advise you to be gentle with women, for they are created from a rib, and the most crooked portion of the rib is its upper part. If you try to straighten it, it will break, and if you leave it, it will remain crooked, so I urge you to take care of the women." Sahih Al-Bukhari

Allah commanded Adam to dwell in Paradise: «"O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight of things therein as wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of the Zalimeen (wrong-doers)."» Surah 2:35

The location of this Paradise is unknown to us. The Qur'an did not reveal it, and the commentators had five different opinions. Some said that it was the paradise of our refuge and that its place was heaven. Others negated that statement because if it was the paradise of refuge, Iblis would have been forbidden admission and disobedience would have been forbidden as well. Still others said that it was another paradise that was created by Allah for Adam and Eve. A fourth group said that it was a paradise on the earth, located in a high place. Another group of commentators accept what was in the Qur'an without questioning where this paradise was located, We agree with this last opinion, as the lesson we learn from its location is immaterial compared to the lesson we learn from the events that took place there.

NS
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
jannah
04/10/03 at 10:40:02
Adam and Eve were admitted to Paradise and there they lived the dream of all human beings. Allah permitted them to approach and enjoy everything except one tree, that might have been the Tree of Pain or the Tree of Knowledge. Allah forbade them before they were given abode in Paradise: «"But come not near this tree or you both will be of the Zalimeen (wrong-doers). "» Surah 2: 35

Adam and Eve understood that they were forbidden to eat the fruit of that tree. Adam was, however, a human being, and man tends to forget. His heart changes and his will weakens. Iblis summoned all the envy within him and took advantage of Adam's humanity to exploit him. He started to whisper to him day after day, coaxing him: "Shall I guide you to the Tree of Immortality and the Eternal Kingdom?" And he said to them: «'Your Lord did not forbid you this tree save you should become angels or become of the immortals." And he (Satan) swore by Allah to them both (saying): "Verily, lam one of the sincere well-wishers for you both."». Surah 7: 20.21

Adam asked himself: "What will happen if I eat from this tree? It might truly be the Tree of Immortality." His dream was to live forever in the pure innocence of Paradise.

Years went by, and Adam and Eve were preoccupied with thoughts of that tree. Then, one day, they decided to eat of its fruit. They forgot that Allah had warned them not to approach it and that Iblis was their sworn enemy. Adam stretched out his hand, picked one of the fruits, and offered it to Eve. They both ate of the forbidden tree.

Allah Almighty told us: «"So he [Satan] misled them with deception."» Surah 7: 22. Allah also said: «"Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray."» Surah 20: 121

According to the Old Testament, Eve was tempted by the serpent to eat of the forbidden tree. She ate because of the words of the serpent and fed Adam some of it. At that moment, their eyes were opened to the fact that they were naked, and they took the leaves of the fig tree to cover themselves. Wahb Ibn Munabah said that their clothing (before their sin) was made of light on the private parts of both of them.

This story in the Old Testament is a falsification and deception. Allah the Almighty revealed: «O Children of Adam! Let not Satan deceive you, as he got your parents (Adam and Eve) out of Paradise, stripping them of their raiments; to show them their private parts. Verily he and Qabiluhu (his soldiers from the jinn or his tribe) see you from where you cannot see them. Verily, We made the devils (protectors and helpers) for those who believe not."» Surah 7: 27

Adam had hardly finished eating when he felt his heart contract, and he was filled with pain, sadness, and shame. The surrounding atmosphere had changed and the internal music had stopped. He discovered that he and his wife were naked, so they both started cutting tree leaves with which to cover themselves.

Allah the Almighty addressed him: «"Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you: Verily, Satan is an open enemy unto you?" They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers." (Allah) said: "Get down, one of you an enemy to the other (i.e., Adam, Eve, and Satan, etc.). On earth will be a dwelling place for you and an enjoyment, - for a time." He said: "Therein you shall live, and therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought out (i.e. resurrected)."» Surah 7: 22-25

Again there are old stories about these events. Al-Hafez Ibn 'Asaker narrated that Allah commanded two angels to remove Adam from His holy proximity. So Gabriel stripped him of the crown on his head, and Michael took the diadem from his forehead. Adam thought that his punishment had been hastened and bowed down crying: "Forgiveness! Forgiveness!" So Allah asked: "Are you running away from Me?" Adam replied: "No, my Lord, but I am shy of You."

'Abdul Rahman Ibn 'Amru Al-Awza'iy said that Adam spent one hundred years in Paradise. In another narration it was said that he spent sixty years. Ibn 'Asaker reported that Adam wept for sixty years for his loss of Paradise and seventy years for his mistake, and he wept for another seventy years when his son was killed.

They left Paradise and descended upon the earth. Adam was sad and Eve was crying. Allah accepted their repentance because it was sincere, and He told them that the earth would be their realm and origin where they would live and die and whence they would come on the Day of Judgment.

Allah the Almighty recounted this third lesson Adam learned in Paradise: «And indeed We made a covenant with Adam before, but he forgot, and We found on his part no firm will-power. And (remember) when We said to the angels "Prostrate yourselves to Adam." They prostrated (all) except Iblis, who refused. Then We said: "O Adam! Verily, this is an enemy to you and to your wife. So let him not get you both out of Paradise, so that you be distressed in misery. Verily, you have (a promise from Us) that you will never be hungry therein nor naked. And you (will) suffer not from thirst therein nor from the sun's heat."

Then Satan whispered to him, saying: "O Adam! Shall I lead you to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that will never waste away?" Then they both ate of the tree, and so their private parts appeared to them, and they began to stick on themselves the leaves from Paradise for their covering. Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray. Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance.

(Allah) said: "Get you down (upon the earth), both of you, together (from Paradise), some of you are an enemy to some others. Then if there comes to you guidance from Me, then whoever follows My Guidance shall neither go astray, nor fall into distress and misery. But whosoever turns away from My Reminder (i.e. neither believes in this Qur'an nor acts on its orders, etc.) verily, for him is a life of hardship, and We shall raise him up blind on the Day of Resurrection."

He will say: "O my Lord! Why have you raised me up blind, while I had sight (before)." (Allah) will say: "Like this, Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) came unto you, but you disregarded them (i.e. you left them, did not think deeply in them, and you turned away from them), and so this Day, you will be neglected (in the Hell-Fire, away from Allah's Mercy)."

And thus do We requite him who transgresses beyond bounds [i.e. commits the great sins and disobeys his Lord (Allah) and believes not in His Messengers, and His revealed Books, like this Qur'an, etc.], and believes not in the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of his Lord, and the torment of the Hereafter is far more severe and more lasting.» Surah 20: 115-127

Some people believe that the reason why mankind does not dwell in Paradise is that Adam was disobedient and that if it had not been for this sin, we could have been there all along. These are naive fictions because when Almighty Allah wanted to create Adam, He said to the angels: "I shall make a vicegerant on the earth." He did not say: "I shall make a vicegerant in Paradise."

Adam's descent on earth, then, was not due to degradation but rather it was a dignified descent. Allah knew that Adam and Eve would eat of the tree and descend to earth. He knew that Satan would rape their innocence. That experience was essential for their life on earth; it was a cornerstone of their vicegerency. It was meant to teach Adam, Eve, and their progeny that it was Satan who had caused them to be expelled from Paradise and that the road to Paradise can only be reached by obedience to Allah and enmity to Satan.

Could it be said that Adam and the rest of mankind were predestined to sin and to be expelled from Paradise and sent to the earth? In fact, this fiction is as naive as the first one.

Adam had complete free will, and he bore the consequences of his deed. He disobeyed by eating of the forbidden tree, so Allah dismissed him from Paradise. His disobedience does not negate his freedom. On the contrary, it is a consequence of it.

The truth of the matter is that Allah knew what was going to happen, as He always knows the outcome of events before they take place. However, Allah does not force things to happen. He grants free will to His human creatures. On that He bases His supreme wisdom in populating the earth, establishing the vicegerents, and so on.

Adam understood his third lesson. He knew now in a practical way that Iblis was his enemy, the cause of his losing the blessing of living in Paradise, and the cause of his distress. Adam also understood that Allah punishes disobedience and that the way to Paradise has to be through submission to the will of Allah. And he learned from Almighty Allah to ask for forgiveness.

Allah accepted Adam's repentance and forgave him. He then sent him to the earth as His first messenger.

Abu Hurairah narrated that Allah's Messenger (PBUH) said: "Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam: 'Your sin expelled you from Paradise.' Adam said to him: 'You are Moses whom Allah selected as His messenger and as the one to whom He spoke directly. Yet you blame me for a thing which had already been written in my fate before my Creation?" Allah's Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said twice: "So, Adam outclassed Moses." Sahih M. Bukhari." Sahih Al-Bukhari

'Umar Ibn Al-Khattab also narrated that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: "Moses (PBUH) said: 'My Lord! May I see Adam who removed us and himself from the Paradise?' So Allah made him see Adam, and he said to him: 'Are you Adam?' Adam said: 'Yes.' And he said: 'Were you the one in whom Allah breathed His spirit, and before whom He bowed His angels, and to whom He taught the names of all things?' Adam answered: 'Yes.' So Moses said: 'What made you remove us and yourself from Paradise?' Adam said unto him: 'Who are you?' He said: 'I am Moses.' Adam said: 'So you are Moses the prophet of the Children of Israel. Were you the one Allah spoke to directly?' Moses answered: 'Yes.' Adam said: 'Why do you blame me for a matter which Allah had predestined?" So Allah's Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said twice. "Adam outclassed Moses." Sahih Al-Bukhari

There are many traditions concerning the place of Adam's descent upon earth. Ibn Abi Hatim narrated that Ibn 'Abbas said: "Adam descended on land called 'Dihna' between Mecca (Makkah) and Taif." Al-Hassan said that Adam descended in India, Eve in Jeddah (Saudi Arabia), Iblis in Bodistiman (Iraq), and the serpent in Ashahan (Iran). This was also reported by Ibn Hatim.

Ass'ady related that Adam descended with the Black Stone in India, and he had a handful of the seeds of Paradise. He sowed them in India and they grew into the fragrant tree therein.

Ibn 'Umar said that Adam descended on As-Safa and Eve on Al-Marwa. This was also reported by Ibn Hatim. 'Abdul-Razzaq reported that Abi Musa Al-Sh'ari said that when Allah ordered Adam to descend from Paradise to earth, He taught him the making of everything and provided him with the crops from Paradise.

Abu Hurairah narrated that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: "The best of days on which the sun has risen is Friday. On this day Adam was created, and on this day he was descended to earth."

Adam knew he bade farewell to peace when he left Paradise. On earth he had to face conflict and struggle. No sooner had one ended than another began. He also had to toil to sustain himself. He had to protect himself with clothes and weapons and protect his wife and children from the wild beasts.

Above all, he had to struggle with the spirit of evil. Satan, the cause of his expulsion from Paradise, continued to beguile him and his children in an effort to have them thrown into the eternal hellfire. The battle between good and evil is continuous, but those who follow Allah's guidance should fear nothing, while those who disobey Allah and follow Iblis will be damned along with him.

Adam grasped all of this, and, with the knowledge of this suffering, he started his life on the earth. The only thing that allayed his grief was that he was master of the earth and had to make it yield to him. He was the one who had to perpetuate, cultivate, construct and populate the earth. He was also the one who had to procreate and raise children who would change and improve the world.

The pinnacle of earthly bliss was reached when Adam and Eve witnessed the birth of their first children, a set of twins. Adam was a devoted father and Eve a contented mother. The twins were Cain (Qabil) and his sister. Later Eve gave birth to a second set of twins, Abel (Habil) and his sister.
The family enjoyed the bounties and fruits of the earth provided by their Lord. The children grew up to be strong and healthy young adults. Cain tilled the land, while Abel raised cattle.

The time arrived when the two young men desired life partners. This was part of Allah's plan for mankind, to multiply and form nations with different cultures and colors. Allah revealed to Adam that he should marry each son to the twin sister of the other. Adam instructed his children according to Allah's command, but Cain was displeased with the partner chosen for him, for Abel's twin-sister was not as beautiful as his own.

It appears that since the beginning of time, physical beauty has been a factor in the attraction between men and women. This attraction caused Cain to envy his brother Abel. He rebelled against Allah's command by refusing to accept his father's advice:

At first glance Cain's rebellion might appear strange, but we should remember that, although man has a pure nature, the potential for dichotomy exists. In other words, he has both good and bad qualities: He can become greedy, covetous, possessive, selfish and even destructive. Man is, therefore, capable of seeking self-satisfaction even if it leads to failure in this life and in the hereafter. The path to goodness lies in harnessing the enemy within him, his baser self, by controlling evil thoughts and deeds and practising moderation in his desires and actions. His reward then will be the delights of this world and the hereafter. Thus Allah tests us through our divided nature.

Adam was in a dilemma. He wanted peace and harmony in his family, so he invoked Allah for help. Allah commanded that each son offer a sacrifice, and he whose offering was accepted would have right on his side. Abel offered his best camel, while Cain offered his worst grain. His sacrifice was not accepted by Allah because of his disobedience to his father and the insincerity in his offering.

This enraged Cain even further. Realising that his hopes of marrying his own beautiful sister were fading, he threatened his brother: "I will kill you! I refuse to see you happy while I remain unhappy!"

Abel, feeling sorry for his brother, replied: "It would be more proper for you, my brother, to search for the cause of your unhappiness and then walk in the way of peace. Allah accepts deeds only from those who serve and fear Him, not from those who reject His commands."

Abel was intelligent, obedient, and always ready to obey the will of Allah. This contrasted sharply with his brother, who was arrogant, selfish and disobedient to his Lord. Abel did not fear his brother's threats, but neither did he want his brother to be hurt. Allah had blessed Abel with purity and compassion. Hoping to allay the hatred seething in his brother, Abel said: "My brother, you are deviating from the right path and are sinful in your decisions. It is better that you repent to Allah and forget about your foolish threat. But if you do not, then I will leave the matter in the hands of Allah. You alone will bear the consequence of your sin, for the Fire is the reward of the wrong-doers"

This brotherly plea did nothing to lessen the hatred in Cain's heart, nor did he show fear of Allah's punishment. Even familial considerations were cast aside. Cain struck his brother with a stone, killing him instantly. This was the first death and the first criminal act committed by man on earth.

When Abel had not appeared for some time, Adam began to search for him but found no trace of his beloved son. He asked Cain about Abel's whereabouts. Cain insolently replied that he was not his brother's keeper nor his protector. From these words his father understood that Abel was dead and Adam was filled with grief.

Meanwhile, Cain did not know what to do with his brother's corpse. He carried it on his back wandering from place to place, trying to hide it. His anger had now subsided, and his conscience was saddled with guilt. He was tiring under the burden of the corpse which had started to have a stench. As a mercy, and to show that dignity could be retained even in death, Allah sent two ravens that began fighting, causing the death of one. The victorious bird used its beak and claws to dig a hole in the ground, rolled its victim into it and covered it with sand.

Witnessing this, Cain was overcome with shame and remorse. "Woe unto me!" he exclaimed. "I was unable to do what this raven has done, that is to hide my brother's corpse." Cain then buried his brother. This was also the first burial of man.

Allah the Almighty revealed: «And (O Muhammad) recite to them (the Jews) the story of the two sons of Adam (Abel and Cain - Habil and Qabil respectively] in truth; when each offered a sacrifice (to Allah), it was accepted from the one but not from the other. The latter said to the former: "I will surely kill you."

The former said: 'Verily, Allah accepts only from those who are Al-Muttaqeen (the pious). If you do stretch your hand against me to kill me, I shall never stretch my hand against you to kill you, for I fear Allah; the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinn, and all that exists). Verily I intend to let you draw my sin on yourself as well as yours, then you will be one of the dwellers of the Fire, and that is the recompense of the Zalimeen (polytheists, and wrong-doers)."

So the Nafs (self) of the other (latter one) encouraged him and made fair-seeming to him the murder of his brother; he murdered him and became one of the losers. Then Allah sent a crow who scratched the ground to show him to hide the dead body of his brother. He (the murderer) said: 'Woe to me! Am I not even able to be as this crow and to hide the dead body of my brother?" Then he became one of those who regretted.» Surah 5: 27-31

Ibn 'Abbas, Ibn Mas'ud and a group of the companions of the Prophet (PBUH) related that inter-marriage of the male of one pregnancy with the female of another had been in practice among Adam's children. Abel wanted to marry Cain's sister, but Cain wanted her for himself because she was very beautiful. Adam ordered him to give her in marriage to his brother, but he refused. So Adam ordered both of them to offer a sacrifice, then went to Mecca (Makkah) to perform the pilgrimage. After Adam had left, they offered their sacrifices: Abel offered a fat lamb - he was a shepherd - while Cain offered a bundle of the worst grain. A fire descended and devoured Abel's sacrifice, leaving that of Cain, so he became angry and said: "I will surely kill you so that you will not marry my sister." Abel replied: "Allah accepts from those who fear Him."

According to Abu Ja'afar Al-Baqer, Adam was watching their offering and was sure that Abel's sacrifice would be accepted. Cain complained to Adam that the acceptance was due to his supplication for Abel and that he had not done the same for him, so he promised his father to settle the matter between himself and his brother. One night, Abel was late returning from tending his flock. Adam sent Cain to see what had happened to him. When he found him, he glared at him saying: "Yours was accepted, and mine was not." Abel replied: "Allah only accepts from the Allah-fearing." Cain became angry on hearing this and hit him with a piece of iron that was with him, thus killing him. In another version it was said that he killed him with a rock to the head while he was sleeping.

Adam was utterly grief-stricken by the loss of his two sons: one was dead, the other was won over by the devil. Adam prayed for his son and turned to mundane matters, for he had to toil for his sustenance. At the same time, he was a prophet, advising his children and grandchildren, telling them about Allah, and calling them to believe in Him. He told them about Iblis and warned them by recounting his own experience with the devil and of how the devil had tempted Cain to kill his brother.

Years and years passed, Adam grew old, and his children spread all over the earth. Muhammad Ibn Ishaq related: that when Adam's death drew near, he appointed his son Seth (Shiith) to be his successor, and taught him the hours of the day and night along with their appropriate acts of worship. He also foretold to him the flood that would come.

Abu Dhar narrated that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: "Allah sent down one hundred four psalms, of which fifty were sent down to Seth."

'Abdullah Ibn Al-Iman Ahmad Ibn Hanbal narrated that Ubai Ibn Ka'b said: "When Adam's death was near, he said to his children: 'O my children, indeed, I feel an appetite for the fruits of Paradise.' So they went away searching for what Adam had requested. They met with the angels, who had with them his shroud and what he was to be embalmed with. They said to them: 'O Children of Adam, what are you searching for? What do you want? Where are you going?' They said: 'Our father is sick and has an appetite for the fruits of Paradise.' The angels said to them: 'Go back, for your father is going to meet his end soon.' So they returned (with the angels), and when Eve saw them she recognised them. She tried to hide herself behind Adam. He said to her: 'Leave me alone. I came before you; do not go between me and the angels of my Lord.' So they took his soul, embalmed and wrapped him, dug the grave and laid him in it. They prayed on him and put him in his grave, saying: 'O Children of Adam, this is your tradition at the time of death."

Before his death Adam reassured his children that Allah would not leave man alone on the earth, but would send His prophets to guide them. The prophets would have different names, traits and miracles, but they would be united in one thing: the call to worship. Allah alone.

This was Adam's bequest to his children. Adam finished speaking and closed his eyes. Then the angels entered his room and surrounded him: When he recognised the Angel of Death among them, his heart smiled peacefully.

After Adam's death, his son Seth (Shiith) took over the responsibilities of Prophethood, according to a hadith narrated by Abu Dhar. Abu Dhar also narrated that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: "Allah sent down one hundred four psalms, of which fifty were sent down to Seth." Sahih Al-Bukhari. When the time of his death came, Seth's son Anoush succeeded him: He in turn, was succeeded by his son Qinan, who was succeeded by his son Mahlabeel. The Persians claim that Mahlabeel was the King of the Seven Regions, that he was the first one to cut down trees to build cities and large forts and that he built the cities of Babylonia. He reigned for a period of forty years. When he died his duties were taken over by his son Yard, who on his death, bequeathed them to his son Khonoukh, who is Idris (PBUH) according to the majority
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
Anonymous
04/10/03 at 11:41:18
Assalamu 'alaikum

Their names in Hebrew are Qayin and Abhel.

The interpretation that Cain comes from "evil" seed is found in Jewish sources as well.  
The Hebrew Scripture itself says, "Now the man knew his wife Eve, and she conceived and
bore Cain, saying, "I have gained a man with the Lord." (JPS translation)

Early interpreters found several "problems" (ie: issues that needed explanation) with the
text, ie: how could God allow a child to be born that was inherently evil? Why does Eve
say that she has born a man?  

Rashi explains that Adam's "knowing" Eve was not (at that particular junction) related to
coitus -- but that he knew her in the sense of intellectual activity.  Normally, the
Hebrew construction would have been, "the man had known."  To explain the pregnancy and birth
of Cain, Rashi concludes that coitus must have occurred previously, in the Garden, before
the expulsion.  

Later commentators and interpreters take this to mean that Adam had "known" something
about her -- that she was keeping a kind of secret from him.

The word "man" in Hebrew does not simply mean "male person," and does not mean, "male
child" (there are other words for this).  Man means man, a grown-up male.  Some interpreters
suggest that this means Cain was born with abilities well beyond his years.  Others
(found in Qumran, the Tertullian, the Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, etc) interpret the passage to
mean that Cain was the product of the first act of adultery -- that because the serpent had
been the, "most craftiest of the creatures," it introduced the necessary element of evil
to take humankind off their righteous path.  (other interpretations include the added
notions that this was Eve?s secret -- as well as an explanation saying that the words, "I
have gained a man with the Lord" is a gloss.  That she is really saying she, "gained a man
with {an angel of} the Lord" -- a reference to the fallen angel who had tempted her in
the Garden)

The minister's interpretation that Cain was from evil seed seems to be influenced by this
reading, and not necessarily a confusion over genealogy: Cain was wicked because he was
begotten by the serpent (allegorically or otherwise), and Abel was righteous because he
was the product of Adam and Eve.

Whether or not this is the current interpretation as understood by Jewish communities
today, is up to debate.  Interpretation serves the needs of the communities it informs ? and
changes as our needs change.  I am sure other communities could not accept that Eve
committed adultery, and rejected the above suggestions, or provided alternates.  Too bad you
don?t know more of how the Minister constructed his argument.  It would be interesting to
see what the agenda is (ie: what needs of his community is he serving by suggesting that
Cain was from "evil" seed ? or is he simply addressing the continued "Problem of Evil"?).

Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
panjul
04/10/03 at 19:38:31
[slm]

) was from Adam's seed and the bad one was from the devil's seed!

Genesis does not mention that. But according to the Jewish Kabala (their interpretation of the Torah (Old Testament), Eve (Astaghferuallah!) lay with the devil! (the kabala says the same thing about gentiles, i.e. non-jews)

Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
IbnTurab
04/12/03 at 04:10:25
THE STORY OF HABEEL AND QAB EEL


The story is given in the Quran In Surah v. 27-30 :-

                    And tell them the story truly of the two sons of Adam.
When they offered up their sacrifice, and it was accepted from one of them, and not accepted from the other, Cain said, "I will kill  thee."  Abel answered, "God accepteth (offerings) of the pious alone.

If thou stretchest forth thine hand against me to kill me, I will not stretch
forth my hand to kill thee; for I fear God, the Lord of all worlds.

I desire that thou shouldest bear my sin and thine own sin, and become a dweller in the Fire, for that is the punishment of the oppressor."

But the soul of Cain inclined him to slay his brother, and he slew him; then he became one of the destroyed.

And God sent a raven which scratched the earth to shew
him how he should hide his brother's body. He said, "Woe is me! I am not able to belike the raven"; and he became one of those that repent


Lessons from the story:

1-  Envy is the root cause of many sins and leads to many sins including the murder of fellow human beings.  

2- At the climax of friction, when one shouts and threatnes,  we should face evil with virtue at this most critical moment.

3. When we sacrifice, we should know that it is our piety that counts and that alone " It is not their meat that reaches Allah, nor yet their blood, but it is your piety that will reach Him".

Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
Anonymous
04/14/03 at 08:43:17
Correct -- Genesis does not say that.  It is *interpretation*.  Just like the
Minister who was spoken about at the beginning of this thread -- he gave an
*interpretation* based upon certain cultural narratives tied to the text.

Interpretation changes to deal with issues that arise.  In early Philosophy, people
debated how a Merciful and Perfect God could allow the creation of evil.  One interpretation
is through the "temptation" of Eve.  The "laying" with the devil does not have to be taken
literally -- but perhaps it was her "contact" with the devil, which introduced an element
of evil.

Kabbalah is NOT interpretation of the Torah.  It is a tradition beginning in the Medieval
period, based upon mystical experiences.  It is an *elaboration* on the Torah, Midrash,
Talmud, Mishnah, etc.  It is a collection of lessons and explanations to teach (through
metaphor) how a devotee can become closer to God.

Any references to gentiles, usually relate back to purity laws -- I?ve never heard of the
Kabbalah referring to gentiles as people who lay with the devil.  However, if it is in
there, it would probably relate to an example of purity.  Just as a woman menstruating, or
a man who is sexually defiled needs to perform ghusul in order to perform certain Islamic
rituals -- Jews have to go through certain *ritual* purification rights when coming into
contact with non-kosher items (including people). (note: ritual defilement or
purification is not tied to, nor reflect, *physical* impurities or physical contamination)

With peace
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
panjul
04/14/03 at 10:14:26
Thanks Anon for clarifying that. I am always confusing the Kabalah and the Other books of Judiasm with one another. I'm sure it still won't stick long in my head. Let me look through some notes I took to see what verse it was.

By the way, you seem to know what you are talking about. Do you know where I can find the Kabalah or the Talmud? Barnes and Noble doesn't carry it.  :)

My mom ordered one from Pakistan but it's in urdu, and although i understand urdu, i can't read or understand too much of the hard urdu that's used in texts.

With Peace to you too.
04/14/03 at 10:14:54
panjul
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
Nistar
04/16/03 at 02:47:11
Hi Panjul -- what is the name of the book?

I wrote a long post answering your questions, and sent it in anonymously -- but have been able to register in the meantime, so I thought that I would just re-post (I guess I need to learn more patience  ;)  ).  
Here's the gist of it:

The Talmud is a huge corpus of various works (commentary upon the Torah, jurisprudence from different schools of thought, as well as commentary upon the commentary!).  The best place to find *some* volumes of Talmudic material would be at your local library (probably a university/college humanities library).  Just one collection, would probably equal the ahadith collections of Bukhari and Muslim -- as well interpretation from the various madhabs...meaning you need a lot of training to comprehend it all.
If you want a small taste, I would suggest starting with commentaries on the Torah by Maimonides, Nahmanides or Rashi.  The JPS translation combines current commentaries alongside of references to the scholars listed above.  Or pick up "Wisdom of the Talmud" at Chapters/Indigo -- it's like an abridged-version-of-coles-notes-talmud

Kabbalah (or mysticism) is more of a movement, than a book.  You're probably thinking of the Zohar.  Tradition has it that both have been around since 70CE -- and Kabbalah has produced many different texts and communities.  The Zohar is mystical commentary on the Pentateuch (5 Books of Moses) -- and was finally compiled and published in 13th Century Muslim Spain.  It is pretty much a collection of lessons, stories and explanations told through allegory.  Again, you will probably only find the entire encyclopaedic collection at a library.

However, books such as, "Understanding Jewish Mysticism" by Blumenthal, and "Jewish Mystical Testimonies" by Jacobs, combine primary text with explanation.  Idel and Scholem have also produced many books on the Jewish mystical tradition.

With peace,
Nistar
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
Rameeza
04/16/03 at 15:21:01
[slm]
u guys are the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!  [] [] [] [] [] [] have a couple on me
Jazaka Allahu kahir!!!!!!!
- rameeza
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
deenb4dunya
04/16/03 at 15:47:43
Jannah.. is Ibn Kathir's Book "Qisas Al-Anbiyaa'" Stories of The PRophets available online?

Wassalamu ALaikum,
Deen :-)
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
jannah
04/16/03 at 16:06:11
[wlm]

i believe a whole bunch are.. try a search for ibn kathir inshaAllah...
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
mr-bean
04/16/03 at 16:20:33
[slm]

you should be a bit careful when it comes to lengthy stories about early prophets and comprehensive tafsir like that of ibn kathir and at-tabari

a lot of what is written in those stories and tafsir come not from  the prophet but from the isrealliyat  -- stories of the jews.  as a consequence you sometimes get really wierd stuff in these stories.

super scholars like ibn kathir at-tabari list include these stories as part of the tafsir.  they do it (as i understand) because at the time it was self-explanatory that such narrations were from the books of the jews.  they are included for the purpose of comprehensiveness, and not because of their verified accuracy.

at-tabari's lengthy history of the world and stories of the prophet are somewhat  based on these sources and perhaps ibn kathir's is as well. (i can't remember exactly)

so if you find bizzare  stuff in these stories, it is most likely because the stuff comes from earlier sources and not authentic hadith.  i think the basic point is that there are not that many hadith about early prophets and the beginning of the world, etc....

and allah knows best.....
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
jannah
04/16/03 at 16:29:04
[wlm]

That is true bro. I believe the same is for Ibn Kathir, alot of details are from israeliyat (which i thought was also xtian books and other books of old) to fill in the 'blanks' so to speak.  The only truly accurate narration is to look for the story in the Quran and what is said about it.

I think it is interesting that the Quran does not as a rule go into details about the stories of the Prophets or stories of anything. It imparts the basics and gives us the lessons. I think that is definitely more important than trying to figure out the details like 'what fruit was it that Adam ate', 'where exactly was this first jannah on earth' etc.. We can speculate but in the end it is the moral and lessons and example that is most important for us.
04/16/03 at 16:31:37
jannah
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
panjul
04/17/03 at 01:45:23
[slm]

The best place to find *some* volumes of Talmudic material would be at your local library (probably a university/college humanities library).

That's the thing. I don't want just some volumes. I want the whole thing, which a jewish guy once told me would be hard to do. He couldn't direct me much further, cuz he wasn't all that into religion.

plus, i want my very own set of books, cuz i can't keep such a large book and read it like you would with a novel and i will have to keep returning it and rechecking it out. I'm very lazy.

My major's journalism/political sciece. (that's my pre--law degrees). but inshallah after that i want to dive into islamic, christian and jewish law. meanwhile, i do reading on my own. Christianity is easy to undersand for me, Judiaims is complicated. And of course, being a muslim, islam's not hard to understand.  

I got this really small book called the "talmud and the internet." it's a story about a guy's grandmother and her love for her religion. he was writing a book on her life when his hardrive crahsed and all was lost and his grandmother died in the meanwhile. he did not have a back-up. I think this book will help me get my feet wet, cuz he talks about the talmud in very simplistic words.

Thanks for your answers though

Peace
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
Nistar
04/17/03 at 03:28:17
Well Panjul, good luck with that!  Knowledge is a very noble and ambitious endeavour!

Have you considered learning Hebrew? If you really, really want to study jurisprudence, it might be a good idea.  But then again, if you just want to study how the law was formed, how chains of transmission (ie: isnad) are verified, or how the law relates to the tradition -- you could study that in any language :)

I had a friend who took courses through the religion department as she was getting her law degree (classes on law and religions) -- so your dream is possible!

With peace,
Nistar

ps...getting the "whole thing" would be difficult.  You would have to decide if you wanted the Palestinian Talmud or the Babylonian Talmud.  Both contain the Mishna and the Gemara (commenatary collections) --  I'm not sure how much of it has been transcribed and translated into English.  You're in humanities...next time you're in the library, just take a look :-X  That'll cut back on the lazy-student factor ;) since you'd be there anyway ;)
04/17/03 at 03:39:35
Nistar
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
panjul
04/18/03 at 13:33:00
[slm]

Yes, Nistar, I plan on learning Hebrew. 'Cuz u r right, not all of it has been translated into Hebrew. But before I could learn Hebrew, i'd have to learn Arabic, cuz that's the language of the Quran and i'd feel ashamed in front of Allah for not learning that and learning another language. That's why I'm not too happy with learning Spanich either, but i have too. The thing is that my resources are limited, as of yet, that is. inshallah i wil be able to learn arabic soon. All the universities that have a good arabic program are not anywhere close to where i live. But i can move, when the right time comes.

Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
Nistar
04/18/03 at 14:33:15
Where do you live in the States -- or what school are you going to?...if that's not too personal  ??? (where's the embarrassed smiley? ;)  )

If you can't find a school close to you that teaches Arabic, have you thought of a Summer intensive course -- would that be something you would be willing to do?

Another option would be to ask someone in your community -- either within the school community or the Muslim community.  I'm sure someone would be willing to teach you at least the basics.  Once you have the alphabet down, it's easier to study on your own :)  That's how I started -- I found a Professor who was willing to give me a few "classes" on the basics.

Then for practise, you could read the Quran along with an english translation to build up your vocabulary -- just an idea :)

Becasue Arabic and Hebrew are Semetic languages -- it's somewhat easy to learn one, after mastering the other.  Although the alphabet is different -- they have similar vocab.  For example: bayt/beit, sadaqa/sadaka, baraka/baruch, etc... :-X

With peace,
Nistar
Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
panjul
04/18/03 at 23:38:08
[slm]

If you can't find a school close to you that teaches Arabic, have you thought of a Summer intensive course -- would that be something you would be willing to do?

That wouldn't be a problem, but how effective is a summer extensive course? But i guess i shouldnt rule it out before looking into it. Good idea, thanks.  :-*

I live in Houston. UH has arabic classes, they started it up 3 years ago. I don't go to UH yet. I'm still at a community colleg, i want to take as much classes there as i can before i transfer to a four year university because it's wayyyyyyy cheper and only a 25 minute drive.

I don't know about UT--in Austin cuz well, i'm not sure if that's where i want to go after getting my BA in Journalism/political science. (Those are my pre-law degrees inshallah) My family thinks i'm too ambitious, but it can be done inshallah.  ;)


Re: Whats the scoop on Kane & Abel N Adam & Eve et
Yasmeena
05/14/03 at 23:06:39
[slm]

This was very informative.  Thank You.

[wlm]


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