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| celebrate as statue of saddam falls |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/09/03 at 20:08:16 |
| [slm] The statue of Saddam Hussein falls in central Baghdad. U.S. troops and city residents pulled it down with ropes and chains, and Iraqis danced on it in contempt. Click play to hear NBC's Tom Brokaw. Playing now: • Baghdad camera • Democratic Presidential Candidates forum Coming up: • Arnot Iraq camera • More live video Wild celebrations as Baghdad falls Sporadic fighting continues in city, but Iraqi regime is gone NBC, MSNBC AND NEWS SERVICES April 10 — Saddam Hussein was toppled symbolically and literally in Baghdad on Wednesday as U.S. forces helped Iraqi citizens tear down a 40-foot-tall statue of the dictator and declared that he no longer ruled the ancient capital. U.S. officials hailed what they called a “very good day” for Iraqis, but warned that U.S. troops were still encountering pockets of resistance in Baghdad and faced potentially tough battles to the north and in other cities and towns not yet under coalition control. Nonetheless, jubilant Iraqis treated the sudden disappearance of Saddam’s regime from Baghdad as the end of his 24-year rule, celebrating in the streets and looting government buildings and warehouses. • MORE EXCLUSIVES INTERACTIVE • Battle zone: Overview of the latest developments SLIDE SHOW • Images of war: Photos from the front lines INTERACTIVE • Allied deaths: Troops killed in the battle zone • Map: Latest action • Iraq interactive library • Target Baghdad • U.S. armor • Urban warfare • Allied war deaths • FAQ: Saddam • Chains of command • Iraq's army • Tools of warfare • Complete coverage: Conflict with Iraq AT A PENTAGON news briefing, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Baghdad was “in the process of being liberated,” referring to large sectors of the city not yet under U.S. control, and warned that “there are difficult and very dangerous days ahead and that the fighting will continue for some period.” But he also called the scene of Iraqi citizens and U.S. Marines toppling the statue of Saddam “breathtaking,” and added, “Certainly anyone seeing the faces of liberated Iraqis, freed Iraqis, has to say that this is a very good day.” Earlier, U.S. Central Command spokesman Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks told reporters in Doha, Qatar, that “the capital city ... has been added to the list of where the regime does not have control.” The city was quiet overnight, with only the occasional boom of tank and artillery fire breaking the stillness. But earlier, U.S. military officials, who spoke with NBC News on condition of anonymity, said that fighting continued in parts of Baghdad, including a battle between U.S. Marines and Special Republican Guard troops just two to three miles from the fallen statue. There was heavy fighting around Baghdad University, located in a loop of the Tigris River south of the city center. In another inci`ent at sunset, hundreds of Iraqis who’d been cheering American troops came under heavy fire from automatic weapons, apparently from Iraqi fighters. Women, children and men scattered into alleyways, and at least six people were killed in a car riddled by bullets. Iraqis celebrate fall of Baghdad Coalition F-15 down near Tikrit; 2 crew missing U.S. airstrike targeted Saddam; outcome unknown British control heart of Basra U.S. war death toll rises to at least 96 U.S. strikes in Baghdad kill three journalists FILLING A VOID Still, the officials said American troops were quickly filling the void left by the disappearance of the Iraqi regime, with at least six brigades of soldiers and Marines arrayed in and around the city of 4.5 million residents. Saddam’s whereabouts — or whether he is alive — remained unclear. U.S. officials said they still didn’t know if he had escaped Monday’s bombing of a site in Baghdad’s Mansour neighborhood, where he and at least one of his sons reportedly were meeting with leaders of the ruling Baath Party. “He’s not been around; he’s not active,” Rumsfeld said. “Therefore he’s either dead, or he’s incapacitated or he’s healthy and cowering in a tunnel someplace trying to avoid being caught.” ATTACKS ON SYMBOLS With the regime’s feared security forces nowhere to be seen, Iraqis dared to cheer U.S. troops and attack the symbols of Saddam’s rule, acts that would have been unthinkable only days earlier. • Slide show: Images of war When Iraqis and U.S. Marines toppled the 40-foot statue of Saddam in a main city square, hundreds swarmed over the hollow metal torso, tearing it to pieces and dragging the head down the street. Before bringing it down, the Marines briefly covered the statue’s face with an American flag, meeting silence, then replaced it with the red-black-and-white Iraqi flag, drawing cheers. “I’m 49, but I never lived a single day. Only now will I start living,” said Yussuf Abed Kazim, a preacher at a local mosque who bashed the statue with a sledgehammer as other Iraqis yelled, “Hit the eye! Hit the eye!” Citizens who didn’t flee the fighting also marked the occasion by sacking government buildings. Youths stripped tires off military vehicles. Men made off with a police car, pushing it down the street and waving its red-and-blue roof light in triumph. One man tottered down the street carrying an elaborate vase half his height. Others hauled ceiling fans, refrigerators, TV sets, computers, appliances, tires, bookshelves and tables from government buildings. Flames also rose from the finance ministry building in the city, underscoring the sense of anarchy. The only government official who could be found to comment on the day’s events was Mohammed Al-Douri, Iraq’s ambassador to the United Nations. “The game is over, and I hope peace will prevail,” he told reporters outside his New York residence. Asked what he meant when he said “the game is over,” he replied, “The war.” CAUTIOUS STANCE The Bush administration was low-key in discussing the dramatic scenes playing out in Baghdad. Asked about President Bush’s reaction to the destruction of the statue, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said the president had watched television coverage before and after a briefing by members of his National Security Council and a meeting with Slovakian President Rudolf Schuster. When the statue fell, Bush said simply, “They got it down,” Fleischer recounted. Fleischer also played down any expectation that the war was quickly drawing to a close. “As much as the president is pleased to see the progress of the military campaign and the Iraqi people finding freedom where they’re finding it, he remains very cautious because he knows there is great danger that could still lie ahead,” Fleischer said. The military officials told NBC News that U.S. forces were continuing to encircle the capital from both sides and were in control of key downtown bridges over the Tigris River. But they said that there were still large areas outside the city center that were not in U.S. control, including the pocket at the university where Special Republican Guard troops battled Marines working their way into the city from the east. To the west, the 101st Airborne and the 3rd Infantry were advancing methodically from the international airport about a mile and a half into the suburbs, meeting sporadic resistance, the officials said. The troops still had not entered at least a half dozen neighborhoods in the western reaches of the city where most members of the Iraqi elite and government officials are thought to be holed up, they said. BOMBING SITE STILL IN IRAQI HANDS Among the neighborhoods yet to be entered is Mansour, where a U.S. B-1B bomber dropped four “bunker buster” bombs on Monday in an attempt to eliminate Saddam. U.S. officials are eager to secure the site and begin an intensive search for forensic evidence. • Urban Warfare: The military's nightmare In the absence of solid evidence of Saddam’s fate, his status was the subject of rampant rumors and reports. The Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, one of two main Iraqi Kurdish groups, claimed Tuesday that Saddam already was hiding in Tikrit when the bombs fell on Baghdad. There were published reports that he was wounded in the airstrike and was en route to Syria, where he would be granted asylum, or was being sheltered in the Russian Embassy in Baghdad. U.S. officials told NBC News that they had no evidence to support the claims and denied the rumor that he was hiding in the Russian Embassy, as did Russian officials. EUPHORIA IN SADDAM CITY While coalition forces have received wary receptions in some Iraqi cities, they were warmly welcomed Wednesday in many areas of Baghdad. The loudest celebrations were heard in Saddam City, a poor, predominantly Shiite area that has long been considered a hotbed of anti-Saddam unrest where small bands of youths tore down portraits of Saddam and chanted, “Bush! Bush! Thank you!” • Complete MSNBC coverage • Kurds cheer Baghdad's fall • The policing headache • Analysis: U.S. war spin • An Iraqi soldier's story • Exclusive: Ansar's terror toxins • The Experts: Iraqi ingenuity • Dispatches from the field • Video coverage from NBC • Blog: Army family's journal • Encarta: Detailed Iraq map • WashPost: Special coverage LATEST FROM NEWSWEEK • Special war section • Saving Private Lynch Similar celebrations went on deep into the night in the parts of northern Iraq controlled by the Kurds. But not everyone rejoiced. “This is the destruction of Islam,” said Qassim al-Shamari, 50, a laborer wearing an Arab robe. “After all, Iraq is our country. And what about all the women and children who died in the bombing?” Meanwhile, U.S. commanders focused attention to the north — including on Tikrit, a city of 260,000 about 100 miles from Baghdad and Saddam’s birthplace — and on Mosul. Lt. Mark Kitchens, a Central Command spokesman, said U.S. forces were “actively engaging” Iraqi forces in both cities. The Central Command said coalition airstrikes were targeting the Republican Guard’s Adnan division in Tikrit, “shaping the battlefield” before ground forces move in. At the Pentagon, Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said 10 or more relatively intact regular Iraqi army divisions remain in the north, in addition to the Republican Guard division. IRAQI MOUNTAIN POSITION OVERRUN Farther north, U.S. special operations forces and Kurdish fighters said that the seizure of the mountain outside Mosul could open the way for coalition forces to march on the city as well as the he major oil center of Kirkuk. • Iraq's army • Republican Guard • U.S. armor • M1A2 Abrams tank • Iraq's T-72 tanks • A-10 "Warthogs" • Tools of war • Targets in Iraq • Missile defense system • Cruise missiles • B-2 "stealth" bombers • F-117 Nighthawk • B-1B bombers • Nimitz-class carriers • AEGIS, eyes of the fleet • Predator drones • Weapons: new vs. old The area called Maqloub, about 10 miles northeast of Mosul and heavily defended by Iraqi forces, was a hub for air defenses against coalition airstrikes as well as a munitions center. In southern Iraq, British officials were contacting local figures and tribal leaders in Basra in an effort to quell looting and preserve property. “We have asked them (the people of Basra) to chose their own leadership that will take them to the future,” said Group Capt. Al Lockwood, a British spokesman at Sayliyah. OTHER DEVELOPMENTS Other developments on the 21st day of the U.S.-led war in Iraq: The International Committee of the Red Cross said on Wednesday that it had temporarily suspended its humanitarian operations in Baghdad because the situation in the city was “chaotic and unpredictable.” The Geneva-based agency said a Canadian staff member had been killed in crossfire in Baghdad. The United Nations said about $720 million in relief supplies were on trucks and ships bound for Iraq, but that it still needs $2.2 billion in emergency funds for more wartime relief. NBC’s Carl Rochelle, Andrea Mitchell, Campbell Brown and Jim Miklaszewski in Washington, David Shuster in Qatar, Dana Lewis near Karbala and Chip Reid near Baghdad; MSNBC’s Bob Arnot in Baghdad; MSNBC.com’s Preston Mendenhall in northern Iraq; The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report. What's on MSNBC TV Baghdad falls, coverage on MSNBC TV • Comprehensive updates on the fall of Baghdad, and 'Operation Iraqi Freedom' every 15 minutes • Natalie Morales pays tribute to some of 'America's Bravest' at :45 past the hour • Find out what is being said around the world about the war in Iraq, in 'The Listening Post' at :15 past the hour. |
| Re: celebrate as statue of saddam falls |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/09/03 at 22:59:17 |
| [slm] CIA STAGES ANOTHER BOGUS PSY-OP/PHOTO-OP http://www.voxfux.com/archives/00000085.htm?lang=ru Looks like the celebration was fake, read the article above. |
| Re: celebrate as statue of saddam falls |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/09/03 at 23:06:13 |
| lol LOL :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D i actually showed my wife the website. thanks for the moment of brief levity Bhaloo. have a great evening!!!!!!!! |
| Destruction of Statue by Invading Army = War Crime |
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| SuperHiMY |
| 04/09/03 at 23:22:57 |
Under the category of Culture and Historical artifacts, destroying Statues by an invading army is legaly a war crime. Where are all those people who complained about the Taliban destroying those Bhuddist Bodhisatva Mountain side idols? Why are they not complaining about this on the merit of principal? And since the world now has the equivalent of a rodney-king like video it should be as easy as the brits identify Soccer hooligans on video replay to identify each and every cia agent and iraqi collaborator in pulling down that statue... while the rest of the City of Caliphs, Baghdad, had its hospitals floor soaking in O negative and B Postive and A negative. |
| Re: celebrate as statue of saddam falls |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 04/09/03 at 23:47:04 |
| EDITED BY ADMIN FOR INSULTING A USER USER IS BANNED FROM POSTING IN THIS THREAD |
| 04/10/03 at 00:34:11 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: celebrate as statue of saddam falls |
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| Dude |
| 04/10/03 at 11:13:56 |
| Not a chance that's fake. Too many reporters from too many non-American media outlets were present to report the same thing. Again, no chance. |
| Re: celebrate as statue of saddam falls |
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| freedom |
| 04/10/03 at 16:30:15 |
| subhanallah Himy! so prophet SAW when entered bayt al-haram and destroyed all those idles, was commiting a war crime. astaghfirullah. What crime bro? I hope you were joking. otherwise I should say I am very disappointed that a muslim defends the statue of Saddam. it's so sad. |
| Re: celebrate as statue of saddam falls |
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| Banu |
| 04/10/03 at 16:34:55 |
| [slm] When Kabul was conquered there were as well similiar scenes which the western media in particular were eager to highlight like the shaving of the beard for instance. The majority of women as usual are still wearing burqas (veil). But then what happen to Afghanistan? It is still in the same mess. The warlord rules. The writ of Karzai is around Kabul. A President who seeks his personal protection from the invading force. At the most he looks like mayor of Kabul. And there have been attack on the US forces and its puppets now and then from the Taliban and other mujhahideen. And Inshallah it will go on for as Abid Ullah Jan very rightfully said " Afghanistan will always remain the land of Jihad". So the point is that what we are seeing on TV on Iraq was expected although it as well pained me like rest of the muslims worldwide. What was not expected was the way Baghdad fall without hard core resistance. But at least it dragged for more than 3 weeks is in itself a feat taking into consideration the barbaric way the bombing and other fire power used (so called precision weapons) But still the way Baghdad fall was not expected. But will they be able to rstore peace and stability in Iraq? It is as well a fact that Saddam like all current day muslim rulers is tyrant. Perhaps he is a bit more ruthless. The way his statues and pictures are erected and placed all over Iraq is totally against Islam specially the statues. If we Muslims were to erect and placed statues as a personally cult, no one would be more qualified than the holy Prophet statue. (Astagfarullah) As for future we wait and see what the modern days Tartars (Anglo American for I think there is no difference between the former and the latter)) are going to do with Iraq with their sugar coated evil plan. As for the rest of the muslim world? What are they going to do. Will there be someone to stand against todays Tartars like the Mamluk. IF I am correct Ibn Tamiyah as well took part in this Jihad. The way things stand now it doesnt look like there will be anyone to stand up to the U.S. Ofcourse Iran will not be an easy walkover. There is no doubt a critical phase in Muslims history is being written which we are now witnessing which will culminate in more and more Muslim defeats and humiliation. And these will be in line with the ahadiths on the signs of Qiyamah before the appearance of Imam Mahdi on the stage. |
| Re: celebrate as statue of saddam falls |
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| freedom |
| 04/10/03 at 17:27:02 |
| Afghanis are walking towards democracy and stability. I'm sorry that some muslims can't see this to happen. What these few extremists want is war and war and war. The new generation doesn't like this and young muslims want peace and liberty. They want jobs, education (for women too) and living in dignity. Warlordism existed before and it's not easy to fight with. it's a part of afghani culture and it takes time. afghan arabs should return to their homes and leave afghanis alone. They will find many things to do in their homelands. Karzai is a legitimate and smart leader and he really wants to work for his people. As muslims we should pray for him to succede (not as some crazy people hope for his failure and breaking out war and "jihad"). Taliban were oppressors, they were a group of unexperienced students and had no knowledge about politics. It's over now, they are gone. Let's hope for a better future. let freedom shine, tomorrow is ours |
| Re: celebrate as statue of saddam falls |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/10/03 at 17:56:37 |
| As'Salaamu Alaikum WRWB well I know that the happiness of some Iraqi people is not fake! I have talked to Iraqi's. My best friends cuzins hubby is Iraqi. He didnt want this war, all his famly is there. He just came to America a couple years back. HIs parents are visiting here cause of the war. His parents have lived it and seen it. The said the people hate Saddam.. but they fear so much to say that. Why cant you be happy that the man who terrorises our brothers and sisters is finally, insh'Allah gone! He has been there for 30 yrs constantly terrorizing his people, and taking what they deserve from them. All of you cant believe that some Muslims are happy for the Iraqi people, that they are free from Saddam...I cant believe that my muslim brothers and sisters are not happy that the evil ruler is finally gone! Do you want them to live in terror longer? I can understand the way itwas done was not right, i can understand that all the hurt and pain was not worth it. But why cant you accept that some good came out of it. even if it was a little teeny bit? AFter all that sadness and pain I am just happy that I atleast some of them happy, that they don t feel that terror and fear anymore. The war killed too many ...but Saddam has also killed too many and if not stopped will continue. We did not live the horror. I think if we lived through it we would be happy that it is gone too. no matter who got rid of it. My best friends dad (who is palestinian, so knows what oppression is) was saying that the muslim countries just cant accept that this was done by a nonmuslim country and are feeling gulity because they should of stopped the oppression of Saddam long ago. As for Afghanistan I will tell you something. I was always upset about the war there and wondered what had become of it. Well a month or two ago I got to talk to an Afghani girl myself. She movied here a yr ago when she got married. She had been living in Pakistan most of her life. I said why, it was because of the government there. Now finally after many years her parents moved back to their original country, Afghanistan. why, because she told me now the situation is better, Alhumdulilah. By listening to her, my opinon changed slowly ....I am happy that they are back in their home country even if the US helped them get back there Where am I getting my feelings from? From people who have lived it. So please try to understand. yes the war was horror but now atleast one evil has gone.. Alhumdulilah. I aslo saw Muslims in the news that are happy for their brothers and sisters, thank God. your sister in Islam |
| 04/10/03 at 18:01:46 |
| a_Silver_Rose |
| Re: celebrate as statue of saddam falls |
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| panjul |
| 04/10/03 at 19:17:42 |
| Karzai is a legitimate and smart leader and he really wants to work for his people. As muslims we should pray for him to succede (not as some crazy people hope for his failure and breaking out war and "jihad"). Karzai is not a legitimate leader, he was not elected, he was installed by the US. If you will call up Amnesty international and ask them what information they have on Karzai and his people, a list of war crimes will be faxed or mailed to you. You can also go to their website, though i'm not sure if they have that information up on it. just type in a google search "amnesty" and their website will pop up. it has their number and address on it. |
| Re: celebrate as statue of saddam falls |
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| freedom |
| 04/11/03 at 01:12:40 |
| sister panjul, hamid karzai is the legitimate leader of afghanistan. all afghani groups supported him and the former president burhanaddin rabbani supported him. election? in afghanisan? for that we need to wait a few more years. Afghanistan is not switzerland. People are not used to election and I wonder did you consider taliban and mulla umar as legitimate leaders? did they hold any elections, did they even know what election is good for? so I assure you hamid karzai is more legitimate than mulla umar. war crimes? in afghanistan every leader is a war criminal because they fought each other and throughout the fighting they were not distributing cookies; they were killing each other. hamid karzai and "his people" have not commited more war crimes than others. and taliban were not commiting war crimes? in baamyan ( a shi'i town) they killed most of the men and raped most of the women (oh of course they were considered slavegirls, yes welcome to 7th century) now the past has gone! let's hope the best for future and we as muslims should hope for a peaceful and jihadi free (especially arab free :D ) afghanistan. let freedom shine, tomorrow is ours |
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