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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-muslim |
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| Dude |
| 04/15/03 at 15:01:22 |
| Saw a quote here: http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/madina/YaBB.pl?board=madrasa;action=display;num=1049773649;start Quoted by Mr. Bean: [quote]had muslims hated non-muslims as you suggested, then muslim men would not be able to marry non-muslim women. [/quote] I've always known this, it's always irked me, but I've never asked why Muslim men can marry non-muslim women, but not the reverse. So...erm......why? ??? |
| 04/15/03 at 15:02:12 |
| Dude |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| Ameeraana |
| 04/15/03 at 15:38:29 |
| [slm] I wonder why, when there are too many Muslim women having hard times finding marriage partners that the men would be allowed to marry non-muslims... but then again, Allah knows best... Ameera |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-ius |
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| Dude |
| 04/15/03 at 15:47:36 |
| That's sort of what I am getting at. |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| mr-bean |
| 04/15/03 at 16:04:58 |
| [slm] if you read my original post -- the answer is included there. in short (1) nonmuslim woman + muslim man = usually [i] muslim [/i] children [i] whereas [/i] (2) nonmuslim man + muslim woman = usually [i] non-muslim [/i] children the principle of maximizing the number of muslim offspring thus thus leads to (1) being desirable and (2) being undesirable (yes i am being a bit facetious and cheeky, but you understand what's going on....) [slm] |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| Dude |
| 04/15/03 at 16:23:11 |
| Yeah I do. That answer seems more culteral than religious though. Is it actually an Islamic law that states a Muslim woman must marry a Muslim man, but it is permissable for a Muslim man to marry a non-Muslim woman? I guess your argument would hold water in some places, but at the same time, we all know the laddies call the shots. ;) |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| paula |
| 04/15/03 at 16:38:04 |
| [slm] Hey Brother Dude...... Hope you're finding a great day today ! Hmm.... thinking here.... because you know I'm not the scholar.... just the humanistic here..... Hmm.... [quote]I've always known this, it's always irked me, but I've never asked why Muslim men can marry non-muslim women, but not the reverse. [/quote] ...... Thought to ask what has irked you about it..... thought that might narrow down the responses to some more concentrated help in the area you are concerned ?? ...... Just a thought here ..... personally.... this is a favorite..... okay by now maybe you have realized I really don't have to many favorites, I like it all ...... but the law of legislation of Allah (swt) does always set my heart aglow ... The Beauty of Allah (swt) and his creation. [wlm] |
| 04/15/03 at 16:42:25 |
| paula |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| sofia |
| 04/15/03 at 16:56:07 |
| Wow, big topic (and in a rush, sorry if this gets disjointed). Please ask your local, trusted Imam or scholar, someone who knows the fiqh behind it, basically. We can all give you our 2 cents, but if you're looking for a scholarly response, you won't find it here. Anyhow, here's my non-scholarly response on relationships (read: useless. Ask a scholar). You know, it wasn't that long ago (I seem to say that a lot) when intimacy before marriage was unacceptible, regardless of race or creed. In most places in the world, that's still the case. So how did/do people get married then? For one thing, "blind" marriages are prohibited in Islaam. The Prophet (S) encouraged his companions to find out some information about their prospective partners, to see them, etc. There is an extent that "getting to know someone" is within the bounds of Islaam, and there is an "extent" that it goes outside the bounds of Islaam. Muslims who abide by these limits (and who, btw, have happy marriages, mashaa'Allaah) can and have gotten married within these limits. Non-Muslims, as well. Islaam encourages marriage. It discourages premarital sex. In fact, it also discourages anything that would lead to it. For example, being alone with the opposite sex (unrelated to you) is prohibited. Has a lot of protective features, and it's actually some sound advice, if you think about it (esp. for women). Similarly, Islaam prohibits khamr (intoxications: wine, beer, liquor, drugs, etc). It also prohibits being around it, if at all possible. Actually, I know people who have never seen drugs or alcohol in front of them in their entire life (besides in print ads). I'd say that's not unusual for some people. Anyhow, the point is, Islaam doesn't just give us the "limits," it also gives us preventive measures to avoid those limits. Sometimes, avoiding those preventive measures makes it hard to avoid the actual limit, and expectedly so. As has been the case throughout history, human nature sometimes finds certain things hard to do. If we were all perfect, we really wouldn't need any laws. So breaking these laws does not mean that a person is no longer a Muslim. It just means there's work to be done on getting back within the limits of Islaam. [Disclaimer: I don't encourage going beyond these limits] Anyhow, Islaam encourages marriage. It's the most honorable thing to do. Regarding a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim man, if he's interested in Islaam, no problem. If not, not gonna happen. But if the sister is not interested in Islaam, herself, why would she not marry a non-Muslim man; ie, then what's the point? Unfortunately, I know Muslim women who have married non-Muslim men, and it's rarely a happy story, whether for them or for their children. And yes, even "Muslim" marriages can go bad, too. The point is following Islaam, not just being born into it. There's no guarantee with just the latter (in terms of having a stable Muslim family. If that's not within the game-plan, then what's the point in following Islaam, period?). For those who want a Muslim family, marrying a Muslim man has wisdom behind it. Has a lot to do with the weighty responsibilities he has in upholding Islaam within the house. To a lesser extent, it has to do with the hardship that a woman would have to deal with, if in fact, she wanted to maintain a Muslim family with a non-Muslim husband. It's not impossible, but Islaamic law is preventive in nature and does not intend to put women/children's (esp, or anyone else) faith, lineage, property, life or knowledge/intellect in jeapardy. Has nothing to do with inferiority/superiority complexes (which Islaam came to banish, anyhow). Also, there's a common misconception that it's ok for a Muslim male to marry a non-Muslim female. That's not always true. For ex/, she'd have to be from among the People of the Book (as opposed to an atheist or polytheist). She'd also have to be inclined towards Islaam, esp. for her children's sake. But that's maybe another subject someone more informed can get in to, inshaa'Allaah. Allaahu A'lim. Hope that made some sense. Still, ask a scholar. |
| NS |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| panjul |
| 04/15/03 at 19:57:17 |
| [slm] Correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt' there a hadith that says muslim women cannot marry non-muslim men? I do know for a fact that, after some time, during the Prophet's (S) time women that converted to islam left their non-muslim husbands if they refused to convert. |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| jannah |
| 04/15/03 at 20:40:14 |
| [slm] It's a verse.. and I believe this question has been discussed a few times in the past.. Check out the archives or the old threads :) |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| deenb4dunya |
| 04/15/03 at 21:20:42 |
| Jazaakillaahu Khayran Sr.Sofia for the enlightning essay...err... post :P Deen :-) |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/15/03 at 21:43:41 |
| [slm] These scholars have some interesting answers. Read through the whole thing. Got this from http://www.islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=3104 Name Nadia - Algeria Topic Ethics & Values Title Marrying Christian Men Question They say men and women are equal in Islam. Yet a Muslim man is allowed to marry a Christian or Jew girl, but a Muslim woman is not. This and many other factors show it’s a domineering of Man, doesn’t it? You may say that it is because the children also become Muslim. Ok take a case like this: what if a Muslim woman marries a Christian man and she remains a Muslim and all her children also are true Muslims? Then it should be ok? Thank you Date 2002/8/13 Name of Consultant Salem Al-Hasi Content of Reply Thank you for your question. Marriage in Islam is a highly regarded practice in the prophetic example, as well as being a social necessity. The Prophet (pbuh) said: ‘O you young men! Whoever is able to marry should marry, for that will help him to lower his gaze and guard his modesty.’ Actually the Prophet (pbuh) regarded modesty as a great virtue. He said: ‘Modesty is part of faith.’ He also said: ‘Marriage is my sunna (way and example). Whosoever keeps away from it is not from me.’ Also, socially, marriage is necessary in Islam. This is because through marriage, families, which are the fundamental unit of the society, are established. Through marriage, Islam aims to build a pure, safe, clean, healthy, and socially stable society. Therefore, mutual respect, common ground and shared principles, are highly needed from both parties. This is in order to fulfill both the religious purpose and the social necessity. In addition to all of this, marriage in Islam is established on the basis of mutual consent and free choice. Since marriage is highly regarded by religion, Islam considers believing in the existence of God, the institution of prophet-hood and the divine books as essential elements in its foundation. Thus Allah in the Noble Qur’an made clear that marrying disbelievers is prohibited, for both genders: Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But God beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise. Surah 2 Verse 221 However, in contrast with other faiths, Islam did not restrict marriage to be only within the Islamic faith. Islam did not require conversion into the faith as a condition for the interfaith marriage, like Christianity. Nor did it totally reject the idea of interfaith marriages, as in Judaism. Here, I am referring to the scriptural law of Christianity and Judaism, not to the civil laws of Western countries. Simultaneously, Islam is a religion that is suitable for the innate nature and character of the human being. In order to maintain security, order and purity in the society, Islam seeks to maintain qualities within the foundation of the family. In this sense only, Islam considers the husband to be the head of the family and responsible for the well being of family members. It is a matter of fact that a Muslim man is obliged to recognize and respect the faith of the Christian and the Jewish woman and cannot compel her to become Muslim. On the other hand, the same cannot be said of the non-Muslim man. The faith of any non-Muslim man does not even recognize Islam or Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as being legitimate. He would not necessarily respect Islam’s tenets and practices that a Muslim woman obviously believes in and is obliged to uphold. Thus the rights of Christian and Jewish women in a Muslim household are protected in the Islamic law. They are able to practice their religion freely without any restriction and they can live with the knowledge that their Prophets and Books will be honored. A Muslim man is even commanded to believe that it is an article of faith to treat his Jewish or Christian wife in this way. Additionally, the habits of the non-Muslim husband and his morals will likely be in conflict with and compromise those of the Muslim woman. Contrary to this, the morals and the value system of the Muslim husband, if not identical to the principle values of Christianity and Judaism, will not contradict or threaten them. Hence, under the light of all previous facts, allowing Muslim men to marry non-Muslims and the prohibition for Muslim women to do so is not a discriminatory rule. It is not a threat to the equality of men and women, or an indication of the dominance of man. It is directly related to respecting others faiths and the freedom of religions. Wa salaam Mr. Lamaan Ball, editor of Ask About Islam, adds: In order to be clear, we need to understand how the rights to practice your religion are affected by marriage. If both parties were equal partners with neither being able to impose his or her will upon the other, then Muslim women marrying Christian or Jewish men would be no different to the Muslim men marrying Christian or Jewish women. However there is a difference. Christian and Jewish men are clearly set in charge of their wives and have a right to be obeyed by them. Christian marriage vows include obeying the husband. The bible explicitly curses Eve by saying she will be made to obey men (This story is however completely missing in the Qur'an). It has even been until recently (early last century) the law in England, that upon marriage all of the woman's property becomes the property of her husband. So any control she had over her life is surrendered to her husband. Islam recognises the position of difficulty this could land Muslim women in and so does not allow them to be subjected to the orders of Christian or Jewish husbands. |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/15/03 at 23:08:55 |
| [slm] This man who's answers I mostly like because they are backed up with clear evidence and critical thinking  has said something a little different (which im hearing for the first time)which might be controversial so Im just going to give the link http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=599 What I like about this site is that they think for themselves while reading Qur'an. He is basically saying that it is discouraged but nowhere does it say its clearly prohibited (IM NOT SURE I AGREE WITH HIM, BUT ITS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT , I THINK ONLY ALLAH (SWT) KNOWS ) more discussion: http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=discussion&did=151 ps if any of you disagree write to that author not me, I personally think he makes some good points. His evidence is always backed up by Qur'an. And please dont discuss in this board. pss Personally if someone is already involved w/ a nonmuslim man I think the best thing is what your wife and her parents did Dude. You didnt really convert for her, you converted because you agree to the basic beliefs that her father explained to you and Alhumdulilah I would love to see more understanding parents like hers. |
| 04/15/03 at 23:31:44 |
| a_Silver_Rose |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| salaampeaceshalom |
| 04/16/03 at 04:42:45 |
| [slm] I agree that someone with more knowledge/more learned should answer these type of questions, like an imam etc, but although this is a type of question that really gets people's tempers going becuase of the 'apparent injustice', I think the answer is relatively clear if u really look into it. Islaam states for instance, that a muslim man has to provide for his wife and family, whatever money the wife earns is hers and she can do with it what she likes, it teaches us the rights a husband and wife have over one another, it shows us how we conduct a divorce, etc. If the husband is a non-muslim he does NOT have to follow any of these. Why? Simple because he ISN'T a muslim, and so therefore he doesn't have to follow any of the teachings of Islaam. In the case of a muslim man marrying the ppl of the Book, it is still his RELIGIOuS DUTY to fulfill all of the islamic teachings. He will be held islamically responsible on how he treats his non-muslim wife. I hope insha'Allaah this has made some sense ;) sorry if it hasn't! |
| 04/16/03 at 16:52:11 |
| salaampeaceshalom |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| Maliha |
| 04/16/03 at 09:27:30 |
| [slm] The path of Islam is hard. Full of rocks, bumps, Roller coaster Imaan rides...Finding the man who will not only share in those hard times but also nurture you, and when you falter, he reaches out to hold your hand and steady your Imaan. The man who would wake you up in the depths of the night, reminding you to spend a moment or more in Glorifying Allah and meditating on His sacred words. The one who will gently direct you on the right path, who will never despair of God's Mercy, forever humble, forever reaching to get his family just a little bit closer to Allah (S.W.T). The one who shares your vision in raising beautiful Mujahideen and Ameera's to lead the Ummah into yet another glorious era. The man who will recite the most heart rending verses to still your fears, whose constant gratitude to Allah melts your tears into sacred streams of tenderness... The one who helps you in establishing the limits of Allah, enjoining goodness and forbidding evil. The one in whose eyes you see a reflection of all your strengths, weaknesses, successes and failures...The one who mirrors your admiration for all that is virtous and detests all that is vile. The one who loves you for the beauty you manifest in your Hijab, who adds layers of protective garments to your soul, and you to his... The one with whom life is nothing but a testament to Allah's will, the one who will ride with you gallantly to the mesmerizing sunset of Time, leading you all the way into the realms of pure enchantment, eternal bliss, The heights of Jannah. *Sigh* [i]Subhana Allah, with *all* that a righteous Muslim man can offer a Muslimah's soul...Is it a wonder that our Glorious Creator in His infinite Wisdom relegated the preciousness of her being only to the one who is worthy of such a priceless gem :-[ [/i] Sis, Maliha :-) [wlm] |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| panjul |
| 04/17/03 at 01:30:53 |
| [slm] Crazy4Islam, I did not see any reason for it to be controversial. All he says is that in the Quran it's implied that marriage of non-muslim men to muslim women is prohibited. Which is true, it's prohibited. Also, when something is not clear to us, we look to the example of the Prophet (S), he did not approve of muslim women staying with non-muslim husbands after the women's conversion. In fact, one of his daughters left her husband when he refused to accept islam. Plus, none of the sabahi women ever married a non-muslim man. That's quite a lot of evidence that it's not allowed. Anything that is agreed by the majority of the shcolars (and i don't know anyone who says its ok.) then that is what the muslims have to follow. |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 04/17/03 at 01:40:13 |
| [slm] You didnt read it right. He doesnt say its prohibited. [quote]The case of a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim man - except that of prohibiting polytheist men for them - has not been directly covered in the Qur'an . One may hold the opinion that by permitting marriage between Muslim men and Jewish and Christian women, the Qur'an has also permitted marriage between Muslim women and Jewish and Christian men. While on the other hand, one may hold the opinion that by specifically mentioning the permission of marriage between Muslim men and Jewish and Christian women, the Qur'an has implied its dislike for marriage between Christian or Jewish men with a Muslim woman. [/quote] This is what he writes after giving a whole explanation. His answers are very good as he goes by Qur'an and also know hadith and sharia law very good. Anyway I dont want to discuss this further so If you dont agree discuss with the man who wrote it. understaing-islam.com is a very good site by the way. It answers critical questions for anyone who is interested. take care your sis |
| 04/17/03 at 01:49:58 |
| a_Silver_Rose |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/17/03 at 02:06:39 |
| [slm] Sister, understanding-islam.com contains only the opinions of the webmaster and not the opinion of a scholar, so please don't use that as proof. You need to refer to scholars when looking for answers to Islamic questions. It is completely forbidden for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim man (weather he be christian, jew, hindu, sikh, etc). It is not permissible for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim from any other religion, whether from among the Jews or Christians, or any other kaafir religion. It is not permissible for her to marry a Jew, a Christian, a Magian, a communist, an idol-worshipper, etc. The following is from Sheikh Munajjid: The evidence for that is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And give not (your daughters) in marriage to Al-Mushrikoon till they believe (in Allaah Alone) and verily, a believing slave is better than a (free) Mushrik (idolater), even though he pleases you. Those (Al-Mushrikoon) invite you to the Fire, but Allaah invites (you) to Paradise and forgiveness by His Leave, and makes His Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to mankind that they may remember” [al-Baqarah 2:221] Imam al-Tabari said: What is said concerning the interpretation of the words “And give not (your daughters) in marriage to Al‑Mushrikoon till they believe (in Allaah Alone) and verily, a believing slave is better than a (free) Mushrik (idolater), even though he pleases you” is that what Allaah meant by that is that Allaah has forbidden the believing women to give birth to a mushrik, no matter what kind of shirk he believes in. So, O believers, do not give your daughters in marriage to them, for that is forbidden to you. For you to give them in marriage to a believing slave who believes in Allaah and His Messenger and that which he brought from Allaah is better for you than to give them in marriage to a free mushrik even if he is of noble descent and honourable origins, even if you like his descent and background… It was narrated that Qutaadah and al-Zuhri said, concerning the phrase “And give not (your daughters) in marriage to Al-Mushrikoon”, It is not permissible for you to give them in marriage to a Jew or a Christian or a mushrik who is not a follower of your religion. (Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 2/379). ;============================================= So we have to becareful where we take our knowledge from. Ok, and I see now that you disagree with him, or are not sure what he was saying, but just in case anyone is/was confused, I wanted to clarify this point (and Jannah mentioned this as well), that the Quran prohibits a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim. |
| 04/17/03 at 02:11:21 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: Question about marriage- Muslim men to non-mus |
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| jannah |
| 04/17/03 at 05:07:47 |
| [slm] I believe the original question was answered. It's amazing how we beat a question to death and say the same thing 14 different ways ;) Let's move on to all the other threads where people are dying for answers and help!!! |
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