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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
Racial Slurs |
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merimda |
04/17/03 at 23:48:59 |
Salam, Just wondering how ppl on this board respond to racial slurs? Especially the sisters. I have had few experiences, the most recent one tonight. Most of the time I just walk on and don't bother responding but today I really felt like telling the guy off. There is this one guy who once or twice every few months I pass by on the street and he never fails to call me behind my back, never in my face, in the most malignant way "Mohammedan." Tonight I am pretty sure I passed by the same guy. I was coming out of the subway and he called me a "paki b****h." Now I was really close to telling the guy to F**** off..but I just couldn't do it. But to tell the truth I wish I had because I'm tired of not saying anything. Anyone have any advice/suggestions? JAK salam, merimda |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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Adi28 |
04/18/03 at 00:14:34 |
[slm] yeah merimda i know how you feel...living anywhere in the western world your gonna run into someone eventually who has something nasty to say to you...i wish i could just get rid of all those really mean, nasty people in the world *Cough*bush*Cough*sadaam*Cough*....wow...got a really bad cough these days! ;) but what i usually do when somebody has something nasty to say to me ill just say some thing smart back....in your case you said that the guy will always say something behind your back and never to your face...what i woud do when something like that happens would be like " i guess your not man enough...to say it to my face."...so that the guy could hear ...and then if he got something to say after that..you can challenge his studpity with your amazing brillance :) alright well i hope i helped some! salaams Adilah |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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bhaloo |
04/18/03 at 00:34:44 |
[slm] You know I've never used that F word before in my life. Here's something that might help. Quran 25:63 And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!"; |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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Dude |
04/18/03 at 01:04:53 |
Be careful about coming back with a smart comment, just because if the fellow is unpolished enough to utter a racial slur, he may just be a loose cannon waiting to blow. You don't need to give him an excuse to physically harm you, just because he's an ignorant idiot. At the same time, it just isn't right to let people get away with that. If there are enough people around, perhaps come back with something kind in nature. "Peace" works. "God Bless". Something non-threatening. Kill him with kindness, sort of speak. Make him think, instead of angry. Be the bigger person. (Anyone have more clichés?) Now, I'm not the best example (my temper is well known), and being a white guy, I'm rarely on the end of a slur, but it has happened. Once in a soccer match against a club called Sheikh Temple (you can guess the ethnic make-up), a defender called me a "white bit**. I simply tapped him on the shoulder, and pointed out my wife and kids. Don't know if it made him more angry or not, but I do think it made him feel stupid. |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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a_Silver_Rose |
04/18/03 at 01:14:48 |
[slm] SubhanAllah! Good Advice. Here is another verse that might help FROM QUR'AN: A good action and a bad action are not the same. Repel the bad with something better and, if there is enmity between you and someone else, he will be like a bosom friend. (Surat al-Fussilat: 34) Alhumdulilah! looks like Dude summed up both the verses, Mash'Allah. All the best your sis |
04/18/03 at 15:48:35 |
a_Silver_Rose |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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Dude |
04/18/03 at 01:22:20 |
I don't have all the answers...my first reaction would be to give the bugger a Dublin kiss (head butt)! ;) That's how I'd hope my wife or Mum would react. Of course, my dearest Mum would have probably opted for the Dublin kiss too. ::) Take care Merimda, and good travels. 8) |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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Mulla |
04/18/03 at 02:09:50 |
Where are you located sister ? if i might ask in the open,, wallahi azeem, whats wrong with our men, dukkhtaran-e-muhammad are being cursed in the street and we give them advise to step back, lanat on such men who cannot defend the daughters of muhammad from the pigs of western society... Pm me sister and inshallah I will make arrangements whatso ever in my weak hands where ever u are to make sure that we pull out the very tounge out of its socket which curseth a daughter of muhammand just because she is a hajib............ There is no compromise on the namoos of our daughters and sisters in the name of Allah, these daughters are already in such pain due to the hijab and now we will let them take curses from cowards who curse women folk, never ever, this is the time to take advantage of the women rights which the west has created for itself, police provides protection, first one needs to report a "harrasement report" and then take action in the name of selfdefense.... Shame on such men who curse women and double shame on them who give advice of "cowardice" to our daughters..... My heart aches with pain cause I dare those cowards to call me names but I find none! Sister, email me in private and lets see how brave this coward is that he curses a daughter of muhammad! I am so mad right now......... Thats why I have always strongly advises our women to learn martial arts and know how to use small arms for the defence cause most of our men will do what I have seen here............... This is no time to show weakness in the matters of our daughters and sisters..... The pigs become bolder and bolder each day....... Mulla! |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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Dude |
04/18/03 at 09:38:39 |
[quote]Shame on such men who curse women and double shame on them who give advice of "cowardice" to our daughters..... [/quote] Was that directed at Bhaloo and me? Venomous. ??? By no means was that advise to be a coward. Personally, I just don't want her to get hurt...if she's alone, and she "takes action in the name of self defense", she may very well find herself on the wrong end of a beating. Really, would you advise her to attack someone if she doesn't know self defense, and doesn't know how to wield a weapon? Be realistic. Filing a harassment claim isn't such a bad idea though. |
04/18/03 at 09:55:47 |
Dude |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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Maliha |
04/18/03 at 10:01:42 |
[slm] Living in da south, I know what you are talking about sis ::) Not too long ago, I begged my hubby to go walking with me around the neighborhood. He finally agreed, and this truck full of rednecks were on it, they shouted at us "Damn Niggers!" I was like :o that's the first time it happened in our neighborhood. We didn't say anything, we didn't get a chance as they cowardly sped by us...all I managed to do was make my hubby paranoid about letting me go by myself ::) More than outright slurs, i get those veiled comments which to me are worse >:( This lady as we were walking into our building at work, (we swipe our ID's to get access), i was fumbling for my ID, while she had hers. She opened the door and insisted on seeing my ID before letting me in. Okay: a) she wasn't the security guard..there is one right when you go into the building (who knows me well). b) Her tone was just rude! I was like "So, you really want to make sure I work here huh?" Not a witty thing to say, but nontheless the best i could do. I dont' know why I was furious when I went into the building. Just this anger and resentment in the pit of my stomach. Yesterday I passed by an old lady who was just OGLING me...like I was an alien or something, so I cheerfully said "Good Morning! ;D", she just kept staring..then I went "GOOD MORNING" stressing every syllable :P She finally muttered something and I walked away. Although I am good at ignoring things, sometimes especially lately they really start getting under my skin! Mulla that advice she was given was on point. How can you call it cowardly when its in the Quran??? May Allah guide us to be perfect examplers of His Deen (Amin). Sis, Maliha :-) [wlm] |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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Rameeza |
04/18/03 at 10:28:27 |
[slm] WOW!!! If the sister is alone I should have to say that she needs to think of her safety first and maybe file a harrassement suite. Plus, if she goes to this place often alone, she should think twice about most of her actions and make the least harmful one. Yet, I have to agree with the Mulla on our men. Sheesh! I had a guy try to be funny with me and I defended myself to the best of my ability. Then I went to one of the brothers to get some assistance in going to talk to the policeman who was standing about 50 yards away from the brother. The brother told me not to make a big deal of it. I was so mad at his reaction which implied that men can do things to women but women should not make 'a bing thing' of it! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah I still get mad when I think of it. [let me have one of these [] and calm down first ] Sad that we can't always rely on our brothers. I went to the policeman by myself and told him that the gang of guys were harrassing the women there and he got another cop to go over and cleared that ENTIRE area just because I spoke up. Alhamdu lillah, He did not even get me into trouble with these guys by drawing any attention to me. [ Note: the cop was a non-muslim who did the job of our brothers] I agree that our sisters should not wait and hold their breath for the brothers to come help them out. Learn to defend yourself. Get to know your rights. Even with the police if they dont take you seriousely [in some countries] if you don't have a man with you, if you sound like you know the law a bit they will be more compliant! WAKE UP SISTERS and take charge. I think that our muslim sisters are way stronger than they appear. May Allah always protect the sisters. Being a person in hijab I know that its not easy on the streets. Good luck! - Salaams |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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siddiqui |
04/18/03 at 12:19:24 |
[slm] [quote]wallahi azeem, whats wrong with our men, dukkhtaran-e-muhammad are being cursed in the street and we give them advise to step back, lanat on such men who cannot defend the daughters of muhammad from the pigs of western society... [/quote] What about the eve teasing any sister Be it a muslim or non muslim that has to undergo in eastern socities esp in India and Pak at the hands of men who sometimes are MUslim too I have seen it happening in India I have heard a first hand account of it happeneing in karachi pakistaan when after my uncle died my aunt refuses to even pick up the phone [quote]Sister, email me in private and lets see how brave this coward is that he curses a daughter of muhammad! [/quote] It is acceptable to be emotional and angry but as dude said u need to be wise in the end I would just like to add "Dogs bark while the caravan passes" [wlm] |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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mr-bean |
04/18/03 at 12:31:02 |
[quote author=Mulla link=board=madrasa;num=1050634139;start=0#6 date=04/18/03 at 02:09:50] wallahi azeem, whats wrong with our men, dukkhtaran-e-muhammad are being cursed in the street and we give them advise to step back, lanat on such men who cannot defend the daughters of muhammad from the pigs of western society... [/quote] ....all i can say is....may Allah forgive you for cursing your brothers like that....(in case you don't know, lanat means curse)....that was not appropriate.... ...muslims live in the west, where almost everybody is a non-muslim and usually of a different color and ethnicity and always expect to be treated with dignity all of the time....and the fact they most of the time they are is an enormous testement to this society.... ...muslims should fight for their rights as vehemently as jewish people do...but what is this "pigs of western society" rubbish...do not expect continuous good treatment when in reality all of us depend on our livlihood and protection from western society....to put it frankly all of those among us who are not converts or their descendents are in reality bootlickers...if we work for a nonmuslim company and spend your whole life so that non-muslims can prosper, all for a nice house and a good wage and away from the uncertainties of say the middle east or south east asia -- than in reality what are we? (yes, of course this is not true if your life is devoted to dawah) so...do not show this incredible self-righteousness...if you want absolute protection then move back to some muslim country....but i suspect that you will be more unsafe there.....there was a time when the the dignity of muslim women was protected...but just face it: that time has passed... ...also what is wrong with just ignoring an insult and walking past? you should only stand up for yourself if you know exactly what you are doing. otherwise you may be shot or stabbed --- is an insult worth that? (for example somebody once tried to mug me, and i instinctively then punched the guy. he fell down and i ran....but he then attempted to shoot me -- so had i not been extremely fortunate i would might have been dead , and for what ?) also sisters, and allow me to chide you, don't show such enormous bravado like "...you useless muslim men...you should protect us..." most muslim men i know are more protective of their female folk than any other community. however, we live in the west, and its much wiser to use brains than brawn to protect muslim dignity here. for example, you don't find jewish people beating other people up in the west. instead you find them using the law and the media to protect jewish dignity. finally, i should add that i have been insulted and harassed more times than you can possibly imagine, so i know what it feels like. for example last week somebody in central london slapped me on the head....since it was a immigrint black guy...i used the nice approach...i asked him why he did it and i told him that he was my brother so why did he do it? (mutual persecutation breeds lots of new brotherly ties)...he agreed with me and apologized.... we shook hands and then parted....it was what you might say.....pretty surreal... |
04/18/03 at 13:22:17 |
mr-bean |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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Rameeza |
04/18/03 at 13:18:21 |
[slm] Mr Bean, no offense but even 'using your brain' at certain situations requires guts and the will to act on something and not sit back passively. For example, reporting the incident etc etc. In my case I feel that muslim brothers don't need to use 'brawn' in most situations unless they are extreme. Yet, the will to do anything at all seems to be lacking. I am sorry but when a non-muslim person comes to the aid of a sister in the presence of a muslim brother, its rather sad and thought provoking for the sisters. And as for 'moving back to muslim countries' , I would like to say that many[more than 3] incidents have happened when I was living in Saudi Arabia, and the men hesitated to react at all. Actually, I find that it is way better in America since many people vocalize their abhorence for these acts. In muslim countries, the men blame the women for being at the butt of these acts without even voising their disapproval of the act itself. It might sound like, I am attacking the brothers. It is not my intension. I just think that if we don't speak up our brothers [who have many other great qualities, im sure] will not feel the need for improvement. As for the following statement, "also sisters, and allow me to chide you, don't show such venormous bravado like "...you useless muslim men...you should protect us..." " all I can say is that , its wrong for sisters to call you useless. I am certain that you have your uses. Take the criticism constructively. DOn't look at it as venomous. And as sisters we should cut down on the complaints that reach you and start to handle things ourselves. For as they say, when it happens to oneself, the understanding of it is greater than when one is a spectator. May you and ALlah forgive me for the bitter pill that I am trying to make you swallow. -r |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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sofia |
04/18/03 at 13:53:53 |
As-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah, The only thing that comes to mind is (if it were to happen and I was cognizant of it): "If this is 'your' country, why do I own more of it than you do? why am I in a higher tax bracket than you are? why have I put more time into education and my community than you have? And like, why are you terrorizing people out on the street, mannn?" Ok, so it probably wouldn't come out that way in real life. :) Seriously, there's a time to step up and there's a time to walk by. Use your judgement, keep the peace, and don't expect anyone to come to your aid except Allah. If you defend anything, defend Islaam. The Prophet (S) was humiliated in worse ways and he never took revenge for himself. Allah A'lim, may Allah protect us all from harm. A good du'aa (besides others): "Bismillahalladhee laa yaDurru ma'a 'ismihi shay'un fil Ardi wa laa fissamaa'i, wa huwas-samee'ul 'Aaleem." In the Name of God, Who causes no harm to come together with His Name from anything whatsoever that is on Earth or in the Heavens, and He is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. |
04/18/03 at 13:55:52 |
sofia |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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mr-bean |
04/18/03 at 14:00:50 |
[slm] in that case, since you are talking about felonies committed in a muslim country like saudia arabia, the following quote does not apply: [quote author=Mulla link=board=madrasa;num=1050634139;start=0#6 date=04/18/03 at 02:09:50] lanat on such men who cannot defend the daughters of muhammad [color=Red]from the pigs of western society...[/color] [/quote] in that case the felons are muslims and the victims are muslims. so this is not so much about protecting female muslim dignity....rather it is more generally....a problem of enjoining the good and forbidding the vile.... and that is a very very very different problem. that is a societal problem...where people can't be bothered to speak out against corruption, bribery and men or women getting beat up in broad daylight... for example, two of little sisters live in a relatively civilized muslim country...however they cannot go out by themselves EVER. this is because there is a genuine fear that they will be harrassed or kidnapped. thousands of such girls have been kidnapped and ended up as forced prostitutes or maids or young wives in certain gulf countries..... the reason this happens is not because of the idiocy of muslim men...but because the police are bankrolled by the kidnappers...(well i suppose this is a form of muslim male idiocy since most of the police are male) ....so this is not a problem which can only be solved by muslim men....muslim women must also work for the accountability of muslim governments so this does not happen. also....possibily the only reason why non-muslims helped you was because such things don't happen in their countrias...whereas in muslim countries it is so frequent that people can't be bothered with it too much. i know lots of crimes that people in muslims countries will simply not report to the police because it is simply a waste of time, but if they were in non-muslim countries they would immediately report them.... btw...is your pill the [color=Red]red[/color] pill or the [color=Blue]blue[/color] pill......?!! |
04/18/03 at 14:06:16 |
mr-bean |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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merimda |
04/18/03 at 15:59:43 |
Salam, Sigh....I am the type of person that likes to avoid any sort confrontation…that's one reason why I don't respond to racial slurs most of the time. It's also a reason why I never take part in discussions in the Umma forum and I really want to avoid this thread..but I kinda feel I have to say something.. br Mulla, I very much appreciate your concern. Jazak Allahu Khairan. But I also think that Br Bhaloo and Dude gave very good advice. Although, I've never been threatened physically, Dude has a point. It's best to stay on the safe side..since I'm pretty small too. I think I've used the f word once in response to these kind of comments..but it was an extreme case that I just couldn't ignore..the guy really ticked me off. It was shortly after September 11th and this drunk homeless guy was using every sort of insult you can think..the f word, b word, terrorist, paki. I passed by him and ignored him but he just kept shouting at me and even was going to spit on me if I was near enough so I just kinda stuck my finger at him and told him to f off. I know it was wrong and bad dawah yet this guy was really infringing on my dignity and I just couldn't keep quiet. I don't appreciate being called a b.. and all that other stuff and I wanted the person and everyone else around to know that. But if such an incident happens again maybe I'll practice what's in the verse Br Bhaloo posted. I’ll stick out my fingers in a gesture of peace instead of my middle finger, insha-Allah. [quote]If the sister is alone I should have to say that she needs to think of her safety first and maybe file a harrassement suite. Plus, if she goes to this place often alone, she should think twice about most of her actions and make the least harmful one.[/quote] Ermm.. well I can't file a harassment suit bc I don't know anything about the guy. Also I don't bump into this guy in same place every time. This time it was outside the subway station. Another time it was in an internet cafe and another time before that it was in the middle of the street. And like I said in my original post I don't bump into him all that often. [quote]Seriously, there's a time to step up and there's a time to walk by. Use your judgement, keep the peace, and don't expect anyone to come to your aid except Allah. If you defend anything, defend Islaam. The Prophet (S) was humiliated in worse ways and he never took revenge for himself.[/quote] Yeah this is true. Altlough most of the time I’m tempted to swear at them I just shut my mouth because I don't want to portray Muslims and Islam in a negative way. I should go back to lurking bc it takes me forever to write a post.. But before I end I just want to say.. that most ppl here (Toronto) are amazing and I can share so many positive experiences with non-Muslim total strangers..many more than these bad experiences. These are just isolated incidents from ignorant or really bitter ppl. Also, just as we shouldn't generalise about non-Muslims we certainly should not generalise about Muslim brs and srs. Anyway, thank you all for your concerns and advice..and insha-Allah hope we all can be more understanding and move beyond pointing fingers at each other. ^_^ salam, merimda |
04/25/03 at 02:03:34 |
merimda |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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sista |
04/18/03 at 19:40:44 |
[slm] Racial slurs? Happens all the time. My beloved family and friends use it as an excuse to make me take off my niqab :'( [quote]Now I was really close to telling the guy to F**** off..but I just couldn't do it. But to tell the truth I wish I had because I'm tired of not saying anything.[/quote] I made a rather offensive gesture in response to an offensive individual some years back (shame :-[) I still cringe every time I think about it - like I sullied myself. Now... I generally stay quiet since the cowards who shout abuse at me tend to do it in a way and in a place where I am extremely vulnerable (no I don't walk in dark alleyways at night; my neighbourhood is dangerous and I am pretty much on my own...force of circumstance :() [quote]A good action and a bad action are not the same. Repel the bad with something better and, if there is enmity between you and someone else, he will be like a bosom friend. (Surat al-Fussilat: 34)[/quote] [quote]Be careful about coming back with a smart comment, just because if the fellow is unpolished enough to utter a racial slur, he may just be a loose cannon waiting to blow. You don't need to give him an excuse to physically harm you, just because he's an ignorant idiot.[/quote] But [i]that's[/i] good advice! Jazakallahu kheiran :) [wlm] |
04/18/03 at 19:42:03 |
sista |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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Dude |
04/19/03 at 00:17:28 |
Exactly...that's all I'm trying to say. It's not about being a coward, or us brothers not backing our ladies...far from it. Even a self defense specialist would advise you to protect yourself with any means possible, [i]if attacked[/i]. None would advise you to attack someone in a situation like this. Again, I'm sort of saying this is how I'd want my loved ones to handle it. I'd probably want them to bring me to the person too, but that's another story. Be safe. |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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bhaloo |
04/19/03 at 00:27:23 |
[slm] Exactly what Dude said. Its not worth it to say something that will put you sister in some sort of danger. As Mr. Bean said these people carry guns and maybe they might go off and shoot you. Out here in California, people shooting each other happens a lot on the freeways, its called road rage, and its definitely not worth it. And I'm certain that every brother on this board would defend the honor of the sisters. And in regards to this comment of yours Mulla [quote] wallahi azeem, whats wrong with our men, dukkhtaran-e-muhammad are being cursed in the street and we give them advise to step back, lanat on such men who cannot defend the daughters of muhammad from the pigs of western society... [/quote] Where were you when thousands of Muslim women were being raped in Serbia? Were you there to defend their honor? Or how about in Iraq and Afghanistan as we watched the invaders bomb and kill children and Muslim women? Are you there to defend their honor? Or how about the abuse of Muslim women in prisons in your home country? Why haven't you stopped this? You blame others without examining yourself first. :( |
04/19/03 at 00:33:37 |
bhaloo |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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Mulla |
04/19/03 at 13:08:49 |
On the grave of Khalid bin waleeed r.a there is a verse in arabic for all you u! its loose meaning is such! My message to the COWARDS of the duniya! If death was in the shadows of swords, khalid would have not died on bed! For the sake of personal security brother Bhaloo I cant disclose my "services" in different parts of the world, but inshallah when the time comes you will know me..... Hence please do not judge from mere internet chat and a few posts on this forum. We muslims should be peacefull but not cowards! All advise on "steping back" at this hour of time frame is considered weakness. The time for dawah in certain countries is almost up, its time for defence! We are not red indians nor we are aboriginals of australia, hence let no colonizer take advantage of us. Our daughters who are near and close to us and when they ask for help men need to be there, plus if you guys are from karachi then i am really sorry to say that you cannot understand "ghayrat" hence no need to further discuss this manner..... Ther used to be a concept called "ghayrat" in men in general, but due to "some" reasons its extint now and if someone like me tries to muster it up, we get fatwas from cowards and we get slapped with ayats of quran which are for periods and hikmah of nabi in the certain conditions....... Yes! indeed I am a bad person who wants to defend our daughters in all parts of the world according to my resources but Allah Jale jallalhu is witness that at least I am not a coward! Each and every sister no matter how small or big she is needs to know how to stand in the face of kufur, usually these people who curse or insult women are actually cowards and they are big mouths! the really are not organized or planned, see i read in the above posts that a truck full or a car full of rednecks sped away after just cursing, brothers there is a noor of hijab and that noor is enough to protect, what is being asked is just a bit of courage from you, not ayats of quran, the sisters know this themselves! Just yesterday a muslim family got cursed in long island, this brother who is from karachi couldnt protect his family from the curses of some teenagers, after one hour of crying like women in front of me, me and my friends had to call the cops and report harrasment and find those teens and file reports. Now thats all what is needed at the moment........Plus a bit courage, all of you brothers need to muster some courage otherwise sebia, bosna, is imminet, but keep in mind KUNDUZ AND TORABORA as well where some of my brothers stood fast and wrote our names in blood but did not step back, so what if we die, death has to come anyways, isnt it a delicacy that someone kills or shoots us in the name of deen! A bit of courage brothers a bit only ........... Mulla! |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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Dude |
04/19/03 at 14:53:12 |
You are WAY over the top. Merimda was asking about what she should do next time this happens. Assuming she is alone, would you advise her to “take action in the name of self-defense”, as you put it? Self defense means exactly as it sounds: self-defense. If you are in a position of weakness when confrontation arises, you do not, under any circumstances, provoke anger. If she were with her husband or a brother, this is perhaps a different discussion…but she isn’t. Get a hold of yourself, and step back and read some of the rubbish you’ve written. Consider this particular person’s question and problem, not the problem of racism as a whole. She’s asking about what she should do at that particular moment, when she’s alone, and somebody confronts her with a racial slur. She’s not asking about what she should do when she gets home, or as future action, but IN THE MOMENT. As I’ve said, my personal reaction to incidents like this is usually different than I am advising, because yes, most people like this are cowards. They are easily handled. But, it is the same coward who’d attack a woman walking by herself because she may be weaker…that’s typical of cowardice behavior. It is for this reason that she should not do anything to provoke further anger when she is alone, and this happens. Think about it, and try to come back with something useful. ::) |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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panjul |
04/19/03 at 18:42:22 |
[slm] We are not red indians nor we are aboriginals of australia, hence let no colonizer take advantage of us. Mulla, people like you make the rest of us look insane. I didn't like the tone of that. Native Americans are not Red Indians, ok? They live nowhere in India! You are implying that Native Americans and Aboriginals were cowards who let the white peoples kill them and reduce them to minorities in their own country without fighting back. That is not the case, they did fight back but because they were peaceful people who had no ambitions to conolize others were not worried about building better weapons to take over other people's lands. And anyway, going by that assertion, um.......hello!! The white people colonized the Muslims too, it's only been a little over half a century since they ended their colonization of the muslims. So i guess we were cowards and didnt' fight back just like the Native Americans. Spot on for what Dude said, try something useful to say to the girl. |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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BroHanif |
04/19/03 at 19:36:33 |
Salaams, [quote]For the sake of personal security brother Bhaloo I cant disclose my "services" in different parts of the world, but inshallah when the time comes you will know me [/quote] talk like this only causes problems for others i.e. Muslims. No doubt this means in simple terms that our words are monitored by big brother. Please be careful to what you say and how you say it. And lets be respectful of each other, I know we're going through some tough patches right now but we shouldn't stoop to calling each other disgusting names and throwing wild accusations. Above all in order to be a real warrior you have to control your own anger first. Then you will have courage and know when to hit and when not to. Salaams Hanif |
NS |
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bhaloo |
04/19/03 at 20:07:24 |
[slm] [quote] Above all in order to be a real warrior you have to control your own anger first. Then you will have courage and know when to hit and when not to. [/quote] This reminds me of an incidence with Ali (ra): Ali was once fighting in a war imposed on Muslims, and the chief of the Unbelievers confronted him. During the fight, Ali was able to overcome his opponent. Ali was about to kill him when he, suddenly aware of his fate, spit on Ali’s face. Ali immediately got up and left him alone. The man went running after Ali and asked, "You had a chance to kill me as I was defeated; why did you not use your sword?" Ali said, "I have no personal animosity towards you. I was fighting you because of your disbelief, on behalf of God. If I had killed you after you spat on my face, then it would have become my personal revenge which I do not wish to take." That Unbeliever chief became a Muslim immediately. |
NS |
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Ameeraana |
04/19/03 at 20:31:11 |
[quote]We are not red indians nor we are aboriginals of australia, hence let no colonizer take advantage of us[/quote] It wasn't that they "let" the colonizers take advantage of them.... they were completely defeated because the colonizers had better weapons. Ameera |
04/19/03 at 20:34:29 |
Ameeraana |
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panjul |
04/19/03 at 20:59:40 |
[slm] That Unbeliever chief became a Muslim immediately. Nope he didn't. After Ali (R) didn't kill him and got off of him explainging why he wasn't going to kill him, the man charged at him catching him by surprise and wounding Ali (R). That's when Ali (R) in self-defense struck him back and in killed him. Read the account of Ali (R) and the Giant here: [url]http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/madina/YaBB.pl?board=kabob;action=display;num=1049439156[/url] |
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bhaloo |
04/19/03 at 21:37:58 |
[slm] Panjul I believe this is a different incident, and I went searching for the reference, but I wasn't able to find the exact reference yet. Although Dr. Athar (the medical doctor) mentions it here: http://islam-usa.com/e80.htm and islam-online.net has it mentioned here: http://www.islamonline.net/English/Science/2002/09/article05.shtml |
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Mulla |
04/20/03 at 03:04:36 |
:) Dear "dude" and dearest "bhaloo" : I beg forgiveness from both of you in the name of Allah if I have offended or registered myself as a person who likes to disrespect any other muslim! I also would ask you two to forgive me for starting a debate which actually is only serving one purpose of "alienating" muslims among each other. The point which I wanted to make is that we need to be "ONE" thats all, and i am pained and feeling guilty that I disturbed the peace in here just because I "vented". The statement about natives and aboriginals was meant to mean that the colonizer should nt take us as them, cause we are much more organized and a different ummah, the statement was not meant to belittle both civilations! Hence, no compromise on the asmaa of muslim women or hijab! Thats what I meant and hope you brothers and sisters would not mind my ramblings. I love all of you! Mulla! |
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Rameeza |
04/22/03 at 10:40:21 |
[slm] My dear Mr Bean! As far as this quote goes, "lanat on such men who cannot defend the daughters of muhammad from the pigs of western society... " all I can say is that I am very happy in a very western society and I did not condone this statement. I just agreed on the hesitation that I see in many of our muslim brothers when it comes to helping our sisters. The case where the non-muslim man came to my aid WAS in a non-muslim country. I am a native of that country. Thus, your claim that it does not happen in non-muslim countries is quite baseless. The second assumption that a muslim man harrassed me was quite misguided too, since he was a buddhist man. And just to clarify, the cop was buddhist too. Yet, there have been incidents in Saudi Arabia too. I am not an authority on other 'gulf countries' and I don't like to spread rumours but for Saudi Arabia, the situation your describing does not apply. No country is perfect and like all countries there are bad people there too but my family including the women in my family do step outside their houses. And as for women in muslim countries working to do their part to help the situation, let me tell you that most of the sisters I know just help themselves without waiting for others. They trust Allah and defend themselves and try to be smart not to get into situations that might lead to trouble. I have even witnessed a bigger sister who was covered from head to toe thrashing a man who tried to harrasse her. WOW!!! Now, that was a sight!! This was outside the Masjid in Makkah. My dad said that she should not do such a thing right outside the Qa'aba. I told him that that vile man should not have done what he did outside the Qa'aba or anywhere else! As for sisters needing help against harrassements not based on racial issues being so very different from the sisters targeted by biggots is quite interesting to hear. As far as I see, if a brother claims that he will protect a sister from harm, he is issuing a kind of a blanket statement. DOn't you think? Its interesting that you lead me to believe that if the harrasement has its origins in racism the community gets involved and if she is getting mauled the police and the government should be our only aid. I am even willing to accept this, brother. Yet, as I stated in my earlier post, the brother in question REFUSED TO ACCOMPANY ME TO THE COP STANDING SO CLOSE TO HIM. I would not want to think and I shudder to think about that brother's actions had the situation been worse. Allhamdu lillah, as usual Allah is always there for us and I pray that he protects all our sisters and any woman under these circumstances. As for your question on pills, I will not dignify that question with an answer since that shows that you being a spectator have not even tried to see the point of view of a woman who is in such situations. Your question implies that the conversation was a form of PMSing. It also belittles the gravity of this topic and the sensitivities of the sisters with regards to it, for starters alone. All I've been trying to say is that many NOT ALL brothers are hesitant in dire situations and that sisters should rely on their own abilities and keep their trust in Allah for protection. The ridicule with which you have ended has further cemented my convictions. I am now convinced that our brothers will not use this post as an eye opener but as a point to keep denying. Nevertheless, may Allah bring peace and mercy to you. Salaams |
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Nomi |
04/22/03 at 13:45:21 |
[slm] all I would like to comment on some points 1) Mr. bean sir, please do not generalize about police and attitude of men when sisters are harassed infront of them in muslim countries as there are all types of men/policemen in "many" "different" muslim countries (about incidents in non-muslim countries) 2) Br. Arshad talked about hikmah and how brothers and sister should control themselves in such situations, well theoratically speaking i can not agree with you more brother Arshad as ur comments/reasoning always carry alot of weight. 3) But if i ever find myself into such situation! i wont be able to sit back OR care about hikmah OR wait for some cop ... i'll go by what brother mullah believes in!! ... i.e. i'll try to save the dignity of my sister in islaam no matter what... why ? Well there are all types of ppl in the world, if we look at sahabah then all of them were quite good in following islaam but still there was alot of difference in the attitude of Hazrat Omer (ra) and Hazrat Uthman (ra). I dont recall the complete incident but in the times of Sahabah (companions) (ra) there was an incident in which ALL techniques/attitudes were used by the "ameer" (leader of the group of muslims) while negotiating terms with a non-muslim jamaat... so there can well be more than one "right ways" to do the same thing and about brother Arshad's comment about "can ppl like mulla go to serbia etc to save the dignity of our muslim sisters"? ... yes most definitly, at least if i were there i would have preferred the one day long life of a lion inshAllah ... but i'm not there am i? so if i find it happening around me then i'll do what i've mentioned above but theoratically speaking i agree with brother Arshad, funny isn't it !!! reason for that is..... i wont be able to stand it... and thats all a brother in islaam Asim Zafar. PS: opinion of all of you is very much respectable for me, plz dont get me wrong and i'm sorry if i offended n e one... peace inshAllah |
04/22/03 at 13:50:18 |
Nomi |
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Dude |
04/22/03 at 16:25:02 |
Hoping to bring some clearer focus to this thread. The situation is question pertains to a small framed female, who apparently commutes to and from work alone, who has been confronted by some bigot who has tossed some racial slurs her way as he walks past. Again, the young lady is alone. She was wondering what she should do in reaction. Considering she’s alone, the very best advise to her is to not provoke anger from this bigot, unless you are 100% prepared to defend yourself. These guys are cowards, and cowards attack those whom they perceive to be weak. Again, this is the “lady walking alone on a street and being confronted with danger” sort of scenario. Not the “lady walking with husband / brother and being confronted by a bigot” scenario. Having said that, men should be expected to stand up for their lady. Again, use caution, and be prepared to defend yourself. My personal experience shows that these types back down very, very quickly. Really, it’s up to the individual to decide if it’s worth giving the guy a smack or not. Personally, I have a short fuse myself, and won’t stand for that. I’ve been lucky though- the couple of times a guy has made either lude or bigoted comments to my wife (both times before I got there to meet her), the guy was exactly as described: a coward who was easily handled. Really, it depends on the surroundings, and the environment. Tell me: is it prudent for one man to challenge a group of 5 or 6 angry, drunken rednecks (unless you’re Mulla and have Bruce Lee’s moves)? Probably not…if the ultimate goal is to keep your lady safe, you’re not much good to her being jumped and busted up by a drunken crew of degenerates. Priority #1 is her safety. I don’t know if a lot of you are spouting off or not, but let’s look at this particular situation and inquiry instead of getting carried away and belittling others here. [quote]I am now convinced that our brothers will not use this post as an eye opener but as a point to keep denying.[/quote] I don't know why you're so adament that all "brothers" deserve to be in this category, but I know I'm getting offended. If whomever you're thinking of has no backbone, that's his problem to sort out...but don't lump the rest of us in there just because we're trying to give Merimda some sound safety tips. |
04/22/03 at 19:00:55 |
Dude |
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panjul |
04/23/03 at 00:31:04 |
[slm] (unless you’re Mulla and have Bruce Lee’s moves)? OR, if you happen to be Panjul and know some realy cool boxing moves. Don't mess with me. :-) That means me confronting a guy alone, unless he has a weapon. in that case, i'd try not to provoke him and get to safety. |
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Rameeza |
04/23/03 at 11:37:19 |
[slm] Dude wrote: "don't know why you're so adament that all "brothers" deserve to be in this category, but I know I'm getting offended. If whomever you're thinking of has no backbone, that's his problem to sort out...but don't lump the rest of us in there just because we're trying to give Merimda some sound safety tips." If you would kindly read what I said in its complete form you would see that I said that not ALL brothers were this way and if you are the exception, good for you. Yet, my dear brother if a sister has encountered a certain form of behaviour, repeatedly, do you not think that she might start to wonder if there is a trend or atleast make note of it as not being random??????? Plus, certain people in this set of posts seem to be ridiculing those who have undergone this , repeatedly and thus belittling their experience. This makes me feel that even bringing this to the notice of the brothers just leads to ridicule so why bother. THAT is why I feel its important for the sisters to be assertive and constructive instead of passive, because there is no such night in shining armor coming around the block. And, if you had read my post you would note that I advised her to use caution if she is by her self etc etc. Even the action I recommended was not the he-man variety but the intelligent woman variety, where she can maybe do something constructive by using the law etc. If you have taken offense all I can say is that, if you are indeed the exception and thus it does not apply to you, my heart felt apologies. Yet, since my examples of hesitant males were not drawn from amongst the men in this set of posts, I thought that the men here would take it as a point to ponder on and not become defensive or get offended. I might have misjudged the type of men I am dealing with here. Will take note in the future. |
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BroHanif |
04/23/03 at 15:12:53 |
Salaams, Dude you sound like you've done some martial arts or you know how to fight and when to fight is this the case ?. Sis Rameeza I think many bros understand where you are coming from what I find perhaps disturbing is this action of the humbug seems to be repeated. I would get in touch with the law authorities in your country and file a report of verbal harrasement. Secondly, ask for some brothers who may be able to help you, even if its perhaps walking in front of you while your going through the subway then so be it. And if they are cowards then let then know that the honour of a sister is at stake. Thirdly, learn about self defence and what you can do, study something like Ju Jitsu where you use strikes and can disable a persons arm by a few moves rather than learning something more intensive like boxing. I recommend this guy his books are great... http://www.newbreedbooks.co.uk/ The book that stands out is the one referred as 'Dogs don't know Kung Fu', in fact all sisters/brothers should read this book. If you want any further advice let me know. Hanif |
NS |
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Rameeza |
04/23/03 at 16:19:49 |
[slm] In most cases, ALhamdu lillah, I have taken care of them myself in a manner that was appropriate to the situation. heh heh heh I have taken a number of karate classes etc but will take your advice on the book. :) I agree with you that we should all try to be self reliant. We should all be able to kick some u-know-what! heh heh heh [] [] [] |
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Dude |
04/23/03 at 18:00:45 |
Rameeza, Fair enough, and all is cool. I just didn’t liked being lumped in there, even if unintentionally. Hanif, A little when I was young, but really more to do with growing up in a rough neighborhood. Stuff tends to happen. Really, a lot of it is simply common sense…always try to keep emotions in check, and analyze a situation. Be apprehensive if you’re going to approach someone or someone is approaching you, because if they feel threatened enough to strike, you need to be prepared. One of the best things about self-defense courses is that they give the learner vast amounts of confidence and self-respect they may have not previously had. Especially, as you pointed out, learning how to disable an attacker. I highly encourage any lady to get some training, and get comfortable in the environment. Some people are naturally confident in themselves, and others may need a bit of a boost to help get there. Self defense training can help get one that boost. Great for fitness, too. An example of common sense: [quote]I have taken care of them myself in a manner that was appropriate to the situation.[/quote] |
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Emerald |
04/23/03 at 22:58:48 |
Dear Merimda, I read about half of the responses you got (masha-Allah there were so many!) and they were great advice. Here's what I would do. Now I'm Syrian and Syrians are generally really nice. People who see me think that there is no way I could ever get angry and even if I did, I'd be too sweet to do anything about it. That's the point when, I think, people start taking advantage of you. When they assume you won't do anything about it. In my case they get surprised when they find out I have guts. I think telling that guy to F#$% off was a good thing - although I would have chosen a different way of saying it :) Maybe that guy was being a jerk because he was scared of you and had lost a sense of security due to what had recently happened involving "Muslims". Pissing you off probably made him feel in control. Responding to that might make him shut up. For example,you could say..."If verbally attacking a woman makes you feel like a man, you must be a pretty weak one especially when you're doing it behind my back". That would be a good response if he were to say it again..it would give you more time to think of a good punch back. Anyway, don't ever be afraid to stand up for yourself. I know it's especially hard in these times but these are the times when it can make a difference. I sense that the media and government want us to shut up because we're growing as a community and because we speak out against injustices. Imagine the consequences if we do shut up. They're greater than speaking out. Plus we lose ajr from Allah (swt). Your sis...Emerald :-) |
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al-tawbah |
04/23/03 at 23:04:05 |
asalamu alaikum wow, quite a thread here. personally, i have tried to help out sisters that i have known were in distress. it just seems second nature for me. i suppose that not everyone sees the aspect of islam that dictates personal responsibility, but it sure seems to me that defense of our sisters is one of the responsibilities that all brothers have. whether they choose to accept their responsibility or not is their choice, and they will answer to allah*swt* for their choice in this matter as in all matters. personally, i agree that the top proirity should be the safety of the sister in question, rather than pride or dignity. once i know they are safe, then the rest will all be fine. i agree with dude, that such men who harrass women are indeed cowardly bullies that will back down immediately if they are confronted by a brother. at least on the occasion that i confronted 3 guys who were trying to tear a sister's hijab off of her head, they sure were. this was the only time that i have had the need to stand up for a sister against those that would harrass her. usually, it is more along the lines of seeing her in a stalled car, and offering to let her and/or her children, parents, etc. wait in my car out of the elements until help arrives. i had always assumed that all brothers took this responsibility for their sisters seriously. i am appalled that a brother refused to speak with a cop for sister rameeza. and to actually make her feel bad by insinuating that she was making a big deal over nothing????? shame on anyone who would make a sister feel even worse than she already did! i have, in the past, also encountered a man who accused me of racism because i didn't back him in a situation at work where he was wrong. he called me racist, and expected me to back down. he got a surprise when i demanded in front of our manager that he prove such an ugly accusation, and when he backed down, that i demanded that our boss file a written reprimand in his file stating that false accusations had been made, and that if this weren't done, that i would go above his head, and file a complaint, not against the one who made the accusation, but against the manager himself for allowing this to happen unchecked. take a guess at what the boss did. while he was not happy about me dictating terms to him, he had to admit that this guy was racist in his assumption that all white people are racist. besides, he was too scared NOT to meet my demands. lol there have also been circumstances when a white person would make racist comments to me as though it were acceptable because i am white. all it took was a simple declaration that i am a servant of the one true god, and that i found their comment unacceptable, for them to shut up, alhamdulillah. let them think that i am some religious nut if they wish, as long as they keep their idiotic thoughts in their own small minds. grrr! it is true that sisters should look to allah*swt* for aid in their safety, but allah*swt* has instructed brothers to be the tool that he uses for this purpose. i am sorry, sister merimda that this has been happening to you. perhaps you might scream as loud as you could to draw attention to the both of you? scream for help at the top of your lungs? are there no brothers or even another sister that you could ask to commute with you so that your safety is not in question? it just seems to me that he does this because you are alone. that is how such cowards tend to be. words are just words, but you sure seem as though this guy makes you feel threatened. even if he is only using words, you seem to me to feel threatened, even though you have stated that no physical threat was made. i sure wish that i could jump through the internet and deal with this guy myself for you. as for the comment by br. mulla, my brother, not all westerners are pigs. please make an effort to think before you generalize in this way. if we generalize about any group of people, regardless of who they may be, we are lowering ourselves to the same level as the spank-off that has been harrassing our sister. while i agree that nonviolence is the best choice if possible, this is not always the case. there comes a time when we must stand up for what is decent, otherwise we are just as guilty as the perpetrator of this harrassment for allowing it to continue. those are just some of my thoughts on the matter. jazak allah khair if you read them. wasalaam |
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panjul |
04/24/03 at 00:29:34 |
[slm] Ok, if any of you sisters are ever in a situation where you are being threatened physically, here's a usefull tip. Always have a key with you, in your hand, and if some guy comes close to you, warn him to stay away. If he keeps coming closer, don't wait for him to attack you, when he's at arm's lenght poke him in the eye with the key! yes, right in the eye! I promise you won't have to do much after that. |
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Mulla |
04/24/03 at 00:43:52 |
[size=4] Its really easy to sit on the internet and yap about advice, but one should understand the gravity of the situation when a muslim women, who is already in strange situation for covering herslef, on top of that being harrassed by pigs of western origin(yes not all westerns are pigs) harrass them and brothers like me stay idle... What happens is that, the nature of the beast is that it preys on the weak first, then they group together, and insult our individuals cause hajib women is a minority in muslims....hence they know that if hijab was really something of worth then all the muslim women would have covered but they sense this and hence isolate them only who cover.... The the nature of the beast is to harrass by action by going against our teachings by asking suttle yet attack questions, now if we are all on a microscopic mentality we can never see the "pattern" hence we will always show "mercy" and will advise on to be wise and side step, but belive me this beast is not as brave as it seems to be...... Once or twice it has been noted that after sept 11 in brooklyn an arab female was chased by dogs let loose on her........and some jewsih boys helped her rescued her from the hispanic person who deliberately let the dogs on the lady.....but today one shall ask him where are his dogs......we took revenge and it was such a revenge that one shall never forget..... Hence all things put together the macro scopic picture is that all sisters shall be steadfast in their stands, brothers shall give "nusrah" and our hearts should be united.....if the harrasers are even a thousand in person and we are only two muslim but our hearts are united, wallah hi azeem, we are a jamaat and Allahs hand is on the jamaat! we should be the domiant ones, even if we are a minority... Mulla! [/siza] |
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merimda |
04/24/03 at 04:06:16 |
salam, Okay I had written a response to some of these posts but my computer messed up and it's gone. It's pretty late now (4am) so I'm not gonna write it up again. Insha-Allah, if I have the time and energy I'll do it another time . salam and JAK again everyone for your advice.. merimda ^_^ |
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mr-bean |
04/24/03 at 08:48:58 |
[slm] ok you macho guys and gals.... if you really want to help a sister defend herself....this is your chance to prove that you are not a hypocrite.... help sister and suggest something people can do to help her. [slm] |
04/24/03 at 08:55:57 |
mr-bean |
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Mulla |
04/24/03 at 16:36:47 |
MUSLIM WOMAN ASSAULTED IN NEW YORK CAIR-NY calls for incident to be treated as hate crime (NEW YORK, N.Y., 4/23/2003) - The New York office of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-NY) today called on law enforcement authorities in that state to treat an assault on a Muslim shopper in Brooklyn as a hate crime. According to media reports, the 23-year-old Italian Muslim woman was shopping in a Brooklyn toy store when she was attacked by a man who yelled a number of anti-Arab slurs and then threw a boxed toy at her, bruising her upper arm. The 29-year-old suspect's father said his son, a Hasidic Jew, acted out of grief because an Israeli friend had been killed by a suicide bomber. The alleged attacker told police he "doesn't like Arab people." He was arrested on charges of assault and aggravated harassment. This is just hot of the oven.... Mulla! |
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bhaloo |
04/24/03 at 21:43:10 |
[slm] That's terrible, unfortunately this stuff is happening all over America. :( Regarding Hasidic Jews, I thought that was strange that this person would be so hateful of Muslims. Because I had been contacted by a rabbi, whose a hasidic jew and he showed me pictures of other hasidic jews protesting Israel's right to exist and saying that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians and giving Jews a bad name. He even sent me an article with proofs from his book supporting his views. |
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al-tawbah |
04/25/03 at 00:00:20 |
asalamu alaikum it would appear to me that br. mulla just provided a good idea with his last post. this organization seems to me to be pretty well run, subhanallah. they could tell sr. merimda what her legal rights are in a situation like this if she is in the us. if she's not, then, inshallah, they could lead her to someone else that could help her out. here is some information: CAIR is America's largest Islamic civil liberties group. It is headquartered in Washington, D.C., and has 16 regional offices nationwide and in Canada. Since its founding in 1994, CAIR has defended the civil and religious rights of all Americans. - END - CONTACT: CAIR-FL, Parvez Ahmed, 904-710-6514; Altaf Ali, 954-298-8214, E-MAIL: altaf@cair-florida.org; Ahmed Bedier, 813-731-9506, EMAIL abedier@cair-florida.org; CAIR-National, Ibrahim Hooper, 202-488-8787 or 202-744-7726, E-MAIL: cair@cair-net.org; Ms. Hodan Hassan, 202-488-8787 or 202-439-1441, E-MAIL: hhassan@cair-net.org NOTE: CAIR offers an e-mail list designed to be a window to the American Muslim community. Subscribers to the list, called CAIR-NET, receive news releases and other materials dealing with American Muslim positions on issues of importance to our society. To SUBSCRIBE to or UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, go to: http://cair.biglist.com/cair-net/ To reach the list moderator, send a message to: cair@cair-net.org ----- CAIR Council on American-Islamic Relations 453 New Jersey Avenue, S.E. Washington, D.C. 20003 Tel: 202-488-8787, 202-744-7726 Fax: 202-488-0833 E-mail: cair@cair-net.org URL: http://www.cair-net.org |
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Aztec_pilgrim |
04/25/03 at 01:38:07 |
Ok,I hope I'm not answering too late ,so here's my 2 cents. Allah has given me a rather sarcastic mentality,so when I'm confronted by a bigot I can come up with something like "God bless you, brother" , "so much for the land of the free,huh?" and the "Can't help it,you know my people is too ignorant to do any better";sometimes giving that person the thumbs up or peace sign is all it takes. But it depends principally on the individual being confronted,if he looks like he is waiting for an excuse to escalate the incident to phisical levels,sometimes it is better to avoid it and give myself some distance from the bigot. There has been some incidents,however,when I witness another person being the victim,and I have jump in the middle of it to try to de-escalate the act,but a couple of times it resulted in me being turned into the scapegoat,and I had to act to defend myself .The main problem in the northamerican region is that often this folks either are armed or have some buddy nearby eager to jump into the action. By the way, I have made some fellow muslims online my enemies by defending this land ,not the system,but the people in general, because it was in my case in California where I learned and later converted to Islam,and besides,us mexicans consider this land part of Mexico,so any attack on it is taken very personal,regardless of the reason. Now,I feel the need to give my opinion to some thing I saw posted on this thread: First of all ,for all of those who are new to being on the receiving end of the racial slurs : JOIN THE CLUB, As a brown skinned Mexican,I have been there on and off since I came to the US ,not just since 9/11. And quite sadly,a muslim fellow from Pakistan (my boss at the time) was the very first person to ever try to belittled me for being a Mexican national even though he knew I was a muslim convert. Second,why is it of utmost importance to help the sisters like they are the only people that are harrased ? As muslims we should feel the same whenever it happens to anyone suffering an injustice. Don't take me wrong,for I agree completely that in the heat of the action,sometimes it's most regrettable that physical reaction is necessary. And third,I can't help the feeling of being on the outside when there is a discussion within the Ummah,for the usual positions are rather depending which community you come from,forgetting that Islam is first and foremost a philosophy and way of life that stands for peace. I find it unnecessary to mention your birth right to defend yourself. Last, I can't end without mentioning the "advice " I noticed above : Resorting to voilence as a first choice or rounding up a posse to get the verbal attacker is wrong,even as a last option. Being completely passive and with a hippie-like-peace-to-you-mr.-attacker attitude is actually endorsing more abuse(don't forget ,we are talking in this case about a particular case in the "evil"west ,where you necessarily have to take into account the "culture" of the land).And finally,having Jewish folks as a model of how to defend yourself is in my view inadequate,because their succesful management of the US political system, financial power and that added to their alliance to the christian right has given them an unprecedented level of overrepresentation in congress,(check the numbers)so when someone says something that the Jewish leadership dislikes,just labeling it anti-semitism gets the job done,and although I have worked togheter with some fellow Jews in political movements like trying to resolve the Palestinians' plight, the vast majority endorses the Likud version with all its ramifications.Using every chance you have to point out the wrongs in the islamic countries even when it has little to do with the issues at hand does not help bring an end to those wrongs. Try coming out of our own little worlds and see the problems others have,that hopefully will give you a better perspective of your personal difficulties. Inshallah things will improve soon for everyone,thanks for your patience.[color=Red][/color][color=Black][/color] |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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merimda |
04/25/03 at 01:55:55 |
Salam, Br. Al Tawbah, JAK for the advice but I don’t think I would scream unless I was threatened physically. It's not an issue of feeling insecure while commuting. On the contrary, I feel pretty safe traveling on the subway on my own. It was only this incident that happened to be outside the subway. The other times it was in the middle of the street in broad daylight. Dude is right. Getting brs to accompany me where ever I go is not realistic. To be honest, in my case, I don't think there is a real need (and neither woud I desire it for several reasons). I don't feel threatened by these racial slurs just really upset me at times. Although I could tolerate and shrug off Mohammedan and sometimes Paki, I really cannot stand being called a b and the like and it is then that I feel I have to say something. When I started this thread what I was looking for was something to say in response that would shut them up and make them think. Something other than f off and alhamudulliah I have a lot good suggestions here. Finally, I am already on the CAIR-Canada mailing list and also know a couple ppl that work for CAIR. Although I really do not think they would be able to do anything in my case because I know nothing about the guy.. but I guess it wouldn’t hurt to ask. I’ll seek their advice insha-Allah. Thanks all, salam, merimda edit: Aztec Pilgrim..just saw your post..Good points.. |
04/27/03 at 11:48:12 |
merimda |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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se7en |
05/01/03 at 16:12:28 |
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah, Sisters take *a lot* of abuse for being such visible representatives of the deen, and it's always a welcoming feeling for brothers to *step up* and show some protectiveness and care for their sisters by being willing to escort them, stand up for them, or that sort of thing. A few months ago, my sister and I were digging her car out of about five feet of snow with shovels. We had like four hours of sleep because the night before we were helping organize a dinner for the MSA and we were up late moving tables around in the hall we rented. That day we were guests on an Islamic radio show, and also cooked a really nice dinner and cleaned up the house because some people were coming over that evening. As we were struggling to dig out the car, exhausted, I started laughing.. guys wonder why sisters these days are so rough and tough and not sweet little homely flowers like they'd like. ::) Anyway, my point is that it's tough holdin it down and on top of all that being mistreated when you walk out side your home, so it is certainly appreciated when brothers show their consideration for sisters by doing those extra things. And even if a sister seems strong and like she can take care of herself, etc.. I'm sure she would still be thankful for the gesture. btw I get so happy seeing brothers and sisters who show such dignity in the way they carry themselves... and with quiet pride dress to reflect their faith. rock on meri 8) hijabi pride in full effect, wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah :-) |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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BroHanif |
05/01/03 at 16:36:01 |
Salaams, [quote]A few months ago, my sister and I were digging her car out of about five feet of snow with shovels. [/quote] [quote]As we were struggling to dig out the car, exhausted, I started laughing.. [/quote] I don't get it were you laughing at the situation or were you laughing that as women yout got the car stuck into five feet of snow onto the wayside when the road was clear ?. And where was faisal when you needed him?. Salaams Hanif |
NS |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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jannah |
05/01/03 at 18:01:42 |
[wlm] foo! :D we live in albanyia.. where there's 5 feet of snow every couple of days in WINTER.. so if you have a car parked on the street you're digging out your car every couple of days... our bro doesn't live here btw but once he did end up here and we dug out like 5 cars that day ;). the issue here i think is why don't bros in general step up??? i remember even in Dimashq one day two room mates from england were sitting outside with loads of luggage trying to bring it into the apartment and all these bros walked by without helping them at all. that's just mean... and if we asked them no doubt they'd say they were 'respecting' the sisters privacy or some such nonsense!! ack and what msa sister hasn't been outside in the freezing weather putting up flyers and struggling to move tables.. like bros love bringing up the verse 'qawwamoona ala nisaa' so where are they then?? [.. no not all brothers are like that.. and yes of course some have legitimate excuses, but when it 's part of the culture for bros to have no responsibility or help out in any way on a consistent basis it's just odd] |
05/01/03 at 18:23:22 |
jannah |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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AyeshaZ |
05/01/03 at 19:56:12 |
Asslamu alykum wa rhamtullah, Sweet homely flower :D I always thought there was something in the Cleveland water about bros not stepping up... sigh.. unfortunately, its everywhere.. Its tough for us sisters, alhamdullialh!!! but if I am with a bunch of sisters, we don't take any nonsense !!! And usually people don't have courage to say anything to you.. Its soooo frustrating to see bruthas protect the privacy of a hijabi by not saying salam or help out with MSA yet it is perfectly okay to assist the non-muslim sisters with everything.. shoooo |
05/01/03 at 19:57:07 |
AyeshaZ |
Re: Racial Slurs |
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bhaloo |
05/02/03 at 22:01:53 |
[slm] [quote author=jannah link=board=madrasa;num=1050634139;start=45#49 date=05/01/03 at 18:01:42]foo! :D we live in albanyia.. where there's 5 feet of snow every couple of days in WINTER.. so if you have a car parked on the street you're digging out your car every couple of days... [/quote] how does it get to be so big? |
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