A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslims |
|---|
| A_Stranger |
| 04/21/03 at 08:17:07 |
| [size=4]An Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslims[/size] Allah subhanahu Wa ta'aala says in his book, Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) till you follow their religion. Say: "Verily, the Guidance of Allah (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) that is the (only) Guidance. And if you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) were to follow their (Jews and Christians) desires after what you have received of Knowledge (i.e. the Qur'an), then you would have against Allah neither any Wali (protector or guardian) nor any helper. [2:120] So (O Muhammad ) obey not the deniers [(of Islamic Monotheism those who belie the Verses of Allah), the Oneness of Allah, and the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad ), etc.] They wish that you should compromise (in religion out of courtesy) with them, so they (too) would compromise with you. [68:8,9] SubhanAllah! We nowadays find many Muslims who follow the foot-steps of the Kuffar. They compremise in their religion in a clear violation of the verses mentioned above. They reject many verses of the Quran, or they misinterpret them to please their people whom they take as friends and supporters while Allah says in the Qur'aan that they will not be pleased until you follow them, and while Allah says, O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong_doers and unjust). [5:51] O you who believe! Take not as (your) Bitanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends, etc.) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses) if you understand. Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not, and you believe in all the Scriptures [i.e. you believe in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), while they disbelieve in your Book, the Qur'an]. And when they meet you, they say, "We believe". But when they are alone, they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage. Say: "Perish in your rage. Certainly, Allah knows what is in the breasts (all the secrets)." [3:118,119] The nowadays modernists follow the western school that says you believe anything that makes sense to you and reject the things that are illogical. Those Muslims who follow this school forgot why we are called Muslims. They forgot that the meaning of Muslim is the one who submits to the orders and commands of Allah whether these orders makes sense to his weak and limited mind, or not. We say to them that we as Muslims are different from the non-Muslims. We have clear proofs that the book we have "the Quran" is truely from Allah. Since it is from Allah we have no choice but to submit to it. We cannot reject any part of it, even if it is only a single verse. Allah says in the Quran, "... Then do you believe in a part of the Scripture and reject the rest? Then what is the recompense of those who do so among you, except disgrace in the life of this world, and on the Day of Resurrection they shall be consigned to the most grievous torment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do." [2:85] Some of those modernits & Interfaith Muslims reject even the authentic Sunnah (Hadeeth) of the prophet Muhammed (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa sallam) just because it does not make sense to their limited mind. They reject the authentic hadeeth which is nothing but great sayings of the prophet, transmitted to us through trust worthy, pious, and truthful Muslims. They forgot the words of Allah, Say (O Muhammad to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." [3:31] Allah goes on in the next verse and discribe those who do not obey him and his prophet as disbelievers. Allah says, Say (O Muhammad ): "Obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad )." But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers. [3:31] Allah also says, And obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad ) that you may obtain mercy. [3:132] These are the limits (set by) Allah (or ordainments as regards laws of inheritance), and whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ) will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), to abide therein, and that will be the great success. And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment. [4:13,14] And whoso obeys Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad ), then they will be in the company of those on whom Allah has bestowed His Grace, of the Prophets, the Siddiqun (those followers of the Prophets who were first and foremost to believe in them, like Abu Bakr As_Siddiq ), the martyrs, and the righteous. And how excellent these companions are! [4:69] O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him (i.e. Messenger Muhammad ) while you are hearing. [8:20] And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (), fears Allah, and keeps his duty (to Him), such are the successful ones. [24:52] "... And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger () he has indeed achieved a great achievement (i.e. he will be saved from the Hell-fire and made to enter Paradise)." [33:71] "... And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), He will admit him to Gardens beneath which rivers flow (Paradise); and whosoever turns back, He will punish him with a painful torment." [48:17] and finally read this verse, But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. [4:65] You have to know that we as humans are limited in our minds. We even submit to other people's minds of those who are more clever and intelligent than us. So why not submit to Allah the one who cearted us. The one who knows what is best for us. There are things in Islam that might not make sense to our limited minds, and there is a wisdom why Allah did not fully clarify it for us. He might, out of his wisdom, want to test us whether we will fully submit to his command, or just reject it. We should not immitate the disbelievers, or follow their desires. Allah says the following verses, And when it is said to them (the Jews), "Believe in what Allah has sent down," they say, "We believe in what was sent down to us." And they disbelieve in that which came after it, while it is the truth confirming what is with them. [2:91] And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad ) the Book (this Qur'an) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures) . So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allah willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allah; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ. And so judge (you O Muhammad ) between them by what Allah has revealed and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they turn you (O Muhammad ) far away from some of that which Allah has sent down to you. And if they turn away, then know that Allah's Will is to punish them for some sins of theirs. And truly, most of men are Fasiqun (rebellious and disobedient to Allah). [5:48,49] Say: "Bring forward your witnesses, who can testify that Allah has forbidden this. Then if they testify, testify not you (O Muhammad ) with them. And you should not follow the vain desires of such as treat Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) as falsehoods, and such as believe not in the Hereafter, and they hold others as equal (in worship) with their Lord." [6:150] We should not immitate them in the way they deal with what they hear from Allah and his prophet, "...We have heard and disobeyed..." [2:93] We should not deal with the words of the prophet Muhammed (salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam) the way the jews dealt with, Among those who are Jews, there are some who displace words from (their) right places and say: "We hear your word (O Muhammad ) and disobey," and "Hear and let you (O Muhammad ) hear nothing." And Ra'ina with a twist of their tongues and as a mockery of the religion (Islam). And if only they had said: "We hear and obey", and "Do make us understand," it would have been better for them, and more proper, but Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not except a few. [4:64] We should follow what Allah and his prophet says. We should not change the meanings or misinterpret the words of Allah and his prophet. We should not go and twist things and make excuses for rejecting what Allah and his prophet told us, Allah says, Await they just for the final fulfillment of the event? On the Day the event is finally fulfilled (i.e. the Day of Resurrection), those who neglected it before will say: "Verily, the Messengers of our Lord did come with the truth, now are there any intercessors for us that they might intercede on our behalf? Or could we be sent back (to the first life of the world) so that we might do (good) deeds other than those (evil) deeds which we used to do?" Verily, they have lost their ownselves (i.e. destroyed themselves) and that which they used to fabricate (invoking and worshipping others besides Allah) has gone away from them. [7:53] We should not follow our desires, and arrogantly, proud of our limited minds turn away and not listen to what Allah and his prophet told us, And who does more wrong than he who is reminded of the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of his Lord, but turns away from them forgetting what (deeds) his hands have sent forth. Truly, We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this (the Qur'an), and in their ears, deafness. And if you (O Muhammad ) call them to guidance, even then they will never be guided. [18:57] And who does more wrong than he who is reminded of the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of his Lord, then he turns aside therefrom? Verily, We shall exact retribution from the Mujrimun (criminals, disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, etc.). [32:22] And had We willed, We would surely have elevated him therewith but he clung to the earth and followed his own vain desire. So his description is the description of a dog: if you drive him away, he lolls his tongue out, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls his tongue out. Such is the description of the people who reject Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.). So relate the stories, perhaps they may reflect. [7:176] But if they answer you not (nor follow you), then know that they only follow their own lusts. And who is more astray than one who follows his own lusts, without guidance from Allah? Verily! Allah guides not the people who are Zalimun (wrong-doers). [28:50] Then We have put you (O Muhammad ) on a plain way of (Our) commandment [like the one which We commanded Our Messengers before you (i.e. legal ways and laws of the Islamic Monotheism)]. So follow you that (Islamic Monotheism and its laws), and follow not the desires of those who know not. [45:18] We should not reject the words of the prophet Muhammed, and claim that we don't understand it, or it does not make any sense follwing in that our desires, And among them are some who listen to you (O Muhammad ) till, when they go out from you, they say to those who have received knowledge: "What has he said just now? Such are men whose hearts Allah has sealed, and they follow their lusts (evil desires). [47:16] We should accept Islam fully. Allah says, O you who believe! Enter perfectly in Islam (by obeying all the rules and regulations of the Islamic religion) and follow not the footsteps of Shaitan (Satan). Verily! He is to you a plain enemy. [2:208] We should always obey Allah, and not reject any thing of what his prophet says. We should be with the rightous Muslims,and not follow our desires and take another way other than the way of the righteous believers, And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad ) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination. [4:115] And keep yourself (O Muhammad ) patiently with those who call on their Lord (i.e. your companions who remember their Lord with glorification, praising in prayers, etc., and other righteous deeds, etc.) morning and afternoon, seeking His Face, and let not your eyes overlook them, desiring the pomp and glitter of the life of the world; and obey not him whose heart We have made heedless of Our Remembrance, one who follows his own lusts and whose affair (deeds) has been lost. [18:28] This is my advice to you O Modernists, and to every Muslim who rejects anything from the book of Allah and his prophet (Sallah Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam). I remind you in this advise and warn you with the Quran the words of Allah, "...But warn by the Qur'an, him who fears My Threat." [50:45] Let us all be as Allah described in this verse: The believers, men and women, are Auliya' (helpers, supporters, friends, protectors) of one another, they enjoin (on the people) Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do), and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. polytheism and disbelief of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); they perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat) and give the Zakat, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah will have His Mercy on them. Surely Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise. [9:71] Wa assalamu alaikum adam_412 |
| Re: Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslim |
|---|
| jannah |
| 04/21/03 at 11:48:20 |
| [wlm] ... 'interfaith' to me means those Muslims that go out and do programs with non-muslims to share Islam etc. I think those are excellent programs that need to be conducted in every community for the sake of dawah and common purpose. 'Modernist' I think this is emerging as a group of people with certain viewpoints, but perhaps it's good to tell people Islam does not reject what is 'modern' unless it goes againts its tenets. |
| Re: Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslim |
|---|
| mr-bean |
| 04/21/03 at 14:14:39 |
| [slm] it might be a bit prudent to be careful when you start saying things like [quote] They forgot that the meaning of Muslim is the one who submits to the orders and commands of Allah whether these orders makes sense to his weak and limited mind, or not. [/quote] i know what you are trying to say. but to any lay person the way you come across is: nothing in islam has to make sense -- once you believe, understanding becomes irrelevent. then when you say something like [quote] We say to them that we as Muslims are different from the non-Muslims. We have clear proofs that the book we have "the Quran" is truely from Allah. [/quote] to a lay person this seems completely nonsensical. at first you said understanding is of secondary importance. now you are talking about clear proofs....well to come to the conclusion that it is a clear proof...you have to have understanding....the proofs have to be intellectualy appealing and attractive.... the skeptic will say: you cannot say: use your brain to deduce islam, and then once you've accepted it throw it in the bin..... this brings me to one of my pet peeves.....why do muslims so often say...there is no rationality no need for logic in islam.... i know the brother did not say that....but many muslims recite this rant over and over again... everything in islam makes sense....the caveat is that not everybody is smart enough to understand all of the aspects...the point is that religion is not something haphazard or random....Allah is the all-wise, nothing Allah ordains is superfluous the point that muslims should make ****clear**** is that as muslims, we hear and we obey, atiullah wa atiur rasul, but just because we are sometimes too narrow minded to understand some things doesn't mean that they are inherently not understandable , or illogical.... there are things which we have no hope of understanding like the ghayb (the unseen) or the nature of Allah..... but even here there is a sensible way to approach these questions.... for example, we do not talk about qada and qadr (freewill and predestination), the nature of Allah and the nature of unseen because [i]we don't have any information about them[/i]. For example, Allah states explicitly in the quran that we have not been given knowledge of the spirit -- the nature of Allah. And as any sensible person knows you cannot really say anything rigorous and sensible about something which you have no information about.... forgive me harping on about this point, but the basic point is: [color=Green]don't say islam doesn't have to make sense. just say that people are *sometimes* too narrow minded to understand the wisdom of its injunctions...and by the nature of God's infinite wisdom there is wisdom in everything which he ordains....[/color] and also....try not to label all modernists or liberals in such a blanket fashion as heretics.....this is plainly irresponsible and possibly very very mean... not all so called modernists advocate things outside the folds of traditional islam....some are called modernists only because their applications of islam are not to the time of our forefathers, but to the age of today -- THE MODERN TIMES. When you condemn people in such a wanton manner, even though it is well-intentioned, you just come across as a nutter, a kook and and a religous quack islam is a very intellectual religion...efforts to anti-intellectualize often turn out to be efforts to debase it in some manner.... |
| 04/21/03 at 14:16:37 |
| mr-bean |
| Re: Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslim |
|---|
| Abu_Hamza |
| 04/21/03 at 22:45:08 |
| [slm] I think what the article is talking about and what br. been is talking about are two different things. Perhaps what is written by br. been is a reaction to what many so-called "anti-modernists" today have said in their speeches and articles, and the condescending attitude that they carry towards certain luminaries of our time. The article that is posted in this thread discusses an important issue, which carries much relevance in our times (especially post-september 11, especially in the west). It is no longer uncommon to see a man with a Ph.D. in economics/political science/engineering completely ignore the fatawa of Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shaafi'ee, and Ahmad (and/or Ibn Abbas, Ibn Mas'ud, A'isha, etc radiAllahu ta'ala anhum ajma'een) regarding a Deeni matter simply because it does not seem to *him* to be the logical conclusion from *his* reading of the Qur'an! Hijab Miracles of the Prophets Marriage to non-Muslims alcohol gambling interest music dating salvation legal status of the sunnah These are only a *few* things that our scholars of the past and the present have very *clear* rulings for, based on naqlee [textual] evidence from the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Yet, if someone (and believe me, there are *many* nowadays) claims that their own reading of the Qur'an (i.e. a *translation* of the Qur'an in most cases) clearly shows that these rulings of the scholars are illogical, then what is to be said to such a person? This article addresses such people, known aptly as the "modernist school of thought." Their lack of emphasis on textual evidence, and over-emphasis on logic is *exactly* the opposite of the way of the salaf. The way of the salaf was not to disregard their intellect completely. However, reason *alone* was never used to derive rulings in our Deen. It was always used as *supporting evidence*, where the *primary* evidence was textual. This does not mean, of course, that reason has no value. Reason obviously plays a pivotal role if the Islamic law is to be universal. For *a* text of the Qur'an (and/or Sunnah) can only be applicable to all times and all places if there is a mind which has the capacity to *apply* it to varying times and places! A related disease is to take an mutashaabih [ambiguous] text from the Qur'an and/or Sunnah and use it to derive a "convenient" ruling (i.e. a ruling which the nafs likes, waliyaadhu billah), and completely disregard the 99 other texts which *clearly* indicate that the ruling should be otherwise! This, again, is putting aql [reason] over naql [text]. And this, I believe, is the crux of the article posted in this thread. P.S. I agree with the sentiment that there has been an unfortunate tendency from some overly zealous brothers and sisters of our time to misuse the "label" of "modernist" and "liberal" by attaching it to *scholars* who perform legitimate ijtihaad (relying on the maqaasid al-sharee'ah [objectives of the sharee'ah]) to derive practical fiqhi rulings for our times and situations today. However, lets keep that discussion for another thread... Wallahu ta'ala a'lam. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh |
| Re: Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslim |
|---|
| panjul |
| 04/29/03 at 00:03:01 |
| [slm] Speaking of modernist Muslims, i had quite an experience today at the doctor's. The doctor was poking needles all over me and giving me electric stimulation (ouch :( ) and to calm me down he started talking to me about my college and what i'm majoring in etc, etc. Well, he turned out to be Iranian who had stayed in Pakistan in NWFP area, he had stayed in Afghanistan as well. Well, i was like cool......we started talking about kabobs. I flinched at the needles and he says he's surprised i'm scared of needles cuz i look like a very tough girl. 1. he said that cuz i'm pathan. 2. maybe i *do* look tough with my hijab on, some people find that intimidating. ( don't know why? even muslims or those who are familiar with the muslim culture. ??? ) But anyway, i didn't ask him why he said that. So anyway, he says to me while he's taking out needles from my arms and and neck something like 'ur a very intelligent girl. it's nice to see intelligent girls.' ohhhhhhhhhh........ i see..... what the brother meant. In his eyes I was a muslim woman that was not shy to speak her mind and hold a conversation outside of cooking and the home. I think the brother's been out of Iran for too long, there arewoman there, intelligent woman, "liberated" women (whatever that means) and not whatever he had in mind. So anyway, after i was done with my tests and stuff i was waiting in the lobby for my dad and sis to show up and he introduces me to another doctor who's also from Iran. But this guy knew how to speak urdu and i talked to him about the best kabob places in NWFP as well. So anyway, one thing leads to another and we end up talking about Islam and muslim countries. Now Doc # 2 was religious. And he and Doc # 1 got into a friendly argument over women's status in muslim countries. Doc # 2 says that muslim women have a long way to go, *back* to Islam, but they are more liberated than western women. Doc. # 1 says no, western women are more liberated and muslim women need to become more westernized. Now, both are Iranians and the first Doc is very "modernized." But he turns to me and says, but you are different, you are very intelligent young woman and i don't think you are oppressed. (and i was thinking.....hmmmmmmm is that a complement?? So i muttered out a thank you. ) and i said, yeah my grandmother was an educated woman too and she dressed just like the Aghan woman you see on TV. He says ok, thats her choice. but Taliban did that..blah, blah... and i said ok now that they are gone (or so Uncle Sam tells us) did they throw off their traditional garments? He says "liberation cannot happen over night." Doc # 1 says, the best thing he missed about Afghanistan was their wine. He said their wine tasted better than French and Italian wine. And i said I'm glad they don't make that anymore. Then he says that Pakistani ppl are very religious people. Doc # 2 disagrees and says they are reactionaries, more than half the population doen'st even know what Islam is. Now--this is the interesting part of the whole strange inccident. ( i mean i have never gotten into a conversation with some strangers like that before.) So I said, well there may be some truth to that, but that it had been a long time since any of you men had gone back to Pakistan, Afghanistan or Iran. Things have changed and are changing slowly. Wel then the conversation took another turn. Doc. # 1 had to go see another patient. So Doc # 2 and I talk about "true Islam." he says, after Muhammad (S) everyone, starting from Abu Bakr (R), down to Imama Hussien (R) left the path of the Prophet. And that was a shocked me-- I became edgy. And i said how is that? Then he accused the 4 righteous caliphs of henious crimes that i'm ashamed to repeat here. And I said--woaha... where are you getting all this stuff from? His answer: "Tarikh-e- Tabari." And I said not even the non-muslim scholars say stuff like that about the early caliphs. But he also warned me to stay away from western non-muslim scholars because they are agents who rewrite our Islamic history in subtle ways. ::) That's the third "modernist" muslim that I have met so far in my life. I hope they are few, otherwise i would have run across more, right? But Doc # 1 (the one that misses Afghani wine) is I think even more rare. Anyway, I know it's long but i just thought that was so strange the way they pulled me into conversations with them and thought I was some sort of unique muslim woman. :-) [] |
| 04/29/03 at 00:06:03 |
| panjul |
| Re: Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslim |
|---|
| mr-bean |
| 04/29/03 at 02:33:26 |
| [slm] doc #2 wasn't necessarily modern. he was just shia. some shia say very negative things about the first few caliphs. i think that is the numero uno reason for sunni and shia friction. [slm] |
| Re: Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslim |
|---|
| panjul |
| 04/29/03 at 12:45:02 |
| doc #2 wasn't necessarily modern. Oh he was modern, all right. His wife came by to drop off lunch and the way she was dressed I would never had gussed she was Muslim at all. Plus, the way he thought i was some sort of new muslimah specimen led me to think he's "modernized." Cuz, see I don't live in some small hick town where there's 5 muslims in the population. I live in one of the largest cities in the US and we have muslims living here in the 1000s. Maybe he doesn't get out much or associate much with muslims. I have heard Doc.'s have a very busy and hectic life. [slm] |
| Re: Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslim |
|---|
| mr-bean |
| 04/29/03 at 13:46:18 |
| ....another thing...tarikh-e-tabari...which presumably refers to at-tabari's history of the world in like 30 volumes, as far as i understand, contains every possible narration. the super-sheikh included everything, whether they were authentic, or dubious or whether he agreed with them or not....his intention was to be comprehensive.... ...i think this is one of those cases where a little bit of knowledge can cause a lota hurt... ....also lots of middle eastern women dress like that -- knee length skirt and hose from 9-5, islamic dress when back at home. i always was a bit surprised by this...but then again i am an idiot...:) [slm] |
| 04/29/03 at 13:50:51 |
| mr-bean |
| Re: Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslim |
|---|
| Kathy |
| 04/30/03 at 10:03:21 |
| [quote author=jannah link=board=library;num=1050927712;start=0#1 date=04/21/03 at 11:48:20][wlm] ... 'interfaith' to me means those Muslims that go out and do programs with non-muslims to share Islam etc. I think those are excellent programs that need to be conducted in every community for the sake of dawah and common purpose. [/quote] Give me your thoughts. I have recently been thinking alot about my role in an interfaith group. Last year we did comparative studying using Genesis as a guide. This year we thought we would teach each other a little about each other's religious holidays. Which was a great idea as we got a chance to present Ramadan one month and "The Hajj Experiance" the next. But then last month I had to sit in a room full of crosses, ham, decorated eggs while the women shared their Easter songs, proclaiming Jesus as God. Astagirfullah Then on Sunday night, I had to sit at a table with alcohol as a Rabi did the Passover meal. Next month we are off to an Eastern Russian Orthodox church...which is filled with idols. It is too much for me.... What would you do? |
| Re: Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslim |
|---|
| Sabr |
| 05/09/03 at 10:35:16 |
| [slm] I think we may have perceived the wrong idea of "a stranger’s post". I thought the article was really good and really stressed on the importance of following the quran and sunnah and not our own whims and fancies. When I think of modernist I think of ppl who reject the sunnah. For eg ,,,, last year a muslim woman represented my country at d Miss Universe Pageant. There was an outcry by various muslim organizations but that produced no change. The muslim woman justified that this represents that she is a liberated woman and she is modernist. !! ?? Ppl change the sunnah to suit themselves and there are several other eg, 1. The classic 1 being the way muslims get married these days…. with men and women sitting together, bride sitting on a stage, large dowries, dancing, haraam music etc. 2. Or even something simple like going to a prayer meeting/ function of the non muslim and partaking in their food etc. 3. Shaking hand of non-maharams and the list can go on There is no basis in the sunnah for some of these practices seen today and I think that gives rise to the so-called modernist islam point that “A stranger” so nicely posted and is so pertinent to these times. What about the statements of shirk that you hear some muslims say”all rivers lead to the sea as all religions lead to God”. ??? ??? What can be more disheartening than that? ??? :o And What can be more clearer than the ayats of quran that were quoted ? Our lives must emulate the sunnah which is summarized beautifully in the following hadith “Malik ibn Anas (d.179H) said, "The Sunnah is like the Ark of Noah. Whoever embarks upon it reaches salvation and whoever refuses is drowned." [Majmoo' ul-Fatawaa 4/57 “ Please note that in no way I am trying to condemn anyone on this board as in they past my posts were misunderstood and misinterpreted. This is merely my opinion. Wassalamu alikum |
| 05/09/03 at 10:43:34 |
| Sabr |
| Re: Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslim |
|---|
| Nomi |
| 05/09/03 at 12:31:50 |
| [slm] well i dont think that we should call those who violate the islamic rulings by their cheap dresses, sinful gender mixing, twisting the rules of sharia, modernists we can refer to them as tainted but not modernist. I think i'm a modernist coz islam itself is modernist so if we just chop out cheaposity from a so called modernist's definiton of the word modern then it would be my definition of modern and ONLY then i would like to call myself a modernist may we follow the sunnah, always Asim Zafar |
| 05/09/03 at 12:39:35 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Advice to the modernists and interfaith Muslim |
|---|
| Gerber_Daisy |
| 05/13/03 at 18:16:48 |
| In response to the interfaith group member.... If the goal of the group is to have open dialogue about current topics (ex. stem cell research, family planning) then I think it can be a positive way to describe/explain our beliefs to others. I don't think attending their religious activities is productive. You don't agree with anything that is going on there so why go? It's like if you were on a sports team and they are showing last weeks game at a bar and they want you to come. You wouldn't go because bars serve alcohol and allow people to smoke. When you choose your activities it is best to avoid those aspects which are haram. My suggestion is to join a different interfaith group or start your own with different goals/methods. |
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board |