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Marital duties in Islam
Jenin1974
04/23/03 at 10:38:45
Salam- I am a newly married female (1 year) and have a dilemma.  :( Both my husband and I work. (We live in the US) He believes that I should help out with paying stuff in the house and things should be split 50/50. I don't agree. To my knowledge, is it not  a man's duty to provide food, shelter and other things to his wife and even if his wife works, her money is hers but she can help if she does so willingly? I believe it is it called nifaq. Can someone please give me the information. I would like to show my husband (who of course is a Muslim) that what I am saying is not abnormal. Jazzakum Allah Khair
04/23/03 at 10:54:16
Jenin1974

Re: Marital duties in Islam
lightningatnite
04/23/03 at 11:43:20
[wlm] This is what we commonly understand in the West about the responsibilities of a husband and a wife.  However, I spoke with a shaykh about this in our community, and he made some good points.  It is true that a husband has absolutely no right on his wife's property.  However, at the same time, a wife does not have the absolute right to work outside of the home.  Shariah put the burden of providing for the family on the husband so that the wife would have more freedom to raise the children and take care of the home and family. According to the Maliki school of fiqh, and probably the other schools are similar, the responsibilities that the husband has for providing for the wife are quite specific.  In fact, it is basically food, clothes, and shelter.  And these things can be quite simple.  Many things are not the responsibility of the husband: for example housewares, wife's medical bills, car, etc.  Most things that we have are amenities and not necessities accroding to shariah. The modern life in the West has circumstances that are unique.  I don't think it is fair to put all the burden of paying bills on the husband alone.  Many of those bills are not his Islamically.  At the same time, I don't think it is wise to break down the monthly budget to things that the husband is responsible for and things that he's not.  That would be awkward. Another example of this kind of twisting of shariah is when a husband and a wife both work, and the husband will go to jumaah and the wife won't becuase "she isn't required to".  Or instead of going to the masjid with her husband, he'll drop her off at the shopping mall.  So she can go to work or anywhere else, but not the masjid...its kind of flipped things.  Jumaah was not made mandatory for women because they have family obligations that would make it burdensome for them to leave everything behind.  But its different in the West when you're both young, working, with no children. I know some  :-) 's will disagree, but I think it is only fair if you help your husband out.  Not a scholar's opinion, but just someone with experience... :)
04/23/03 at 11:45:57
lightningatnite

Re: Marital duties in Islam
UmmWafi
04/23/03 at 12:32:14
[wlm] Dear sister Marriage is a partnership, a bond that is halal in the eyes of Allah SWT.  To ensure that the partnership works, both parties must be committed in making it work.  Of course we can talk about blacks and whites and about must and must-nots but at the end of the day, what does this insistence serve us ? Sister, if your husband wants you to chip in the expenses, perhaps it is due to some reasons.  Maybe he finds shouldering all the burden of expenses very tedious on his income.  Perhaps it could be due to another reason.  Whatever it is, I feel it is best you talk to your husband first and explore his feelings and thoughts on this matter.  Discuss the matter as partners and when that is done and there are still some things bothering you about the arrangement, talk to an imam. Forgive me if I have not satisfied your request for fiqh explanation....was just trying to give the "counsellor" perspective. May Allah Bless you with hidayah, Amin Wassalam

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Jenin1974
04/23/03 at 13:23:32
Salam Perhaps I should have gone further. but I thank you for your replies. I have my own car which I make payments on, a school loan which I pay off, car insurance, medical insurance, I pay for my birth control which he wants me on because he does not want kids, my cell phone in addition to other expenses, such as my clothes and personal items.  In other words, I am not expecting him to take all the burden.  But it is crossing the line when he tries to demand the help and calls me stingy is it not?   I spent 5 months without work in which he would not even help me pay my car payments.  That is not the basis of marriage in Islam to demand your wife work. I'm sorry if I am venting. I am trying to make him understand that he is following a totally Western principle.  I do not mind helping, but not forced to help... Jazzakum Allah Khair

Re: Marital duties in Islam
mr-bean
04/23/03 at 14:00:41
check out this thread Advice on how to go about marrying a sister in the ikhwan folder. there are lots and lots of messges on this topic. [slm]

Re: Marital duties in Islam
a_Silver_Rose
04/23/03 at 16:07:42
[slm] Yah you are right sister. This is completelyclearly his duty. May Allah (swt) guide us all. It seems frustrating. When they dont wanna put of with the bills, they go by the western example...and when they want the wives to obey, then ofcourse  forget the western example. seems like a no win situation to me. In Islam we have rights too and its about time the men know them. Read this (I put the part concerning you in bold) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rights of the Wife Over the Husband Dowry (Mahr) This right of the wife has been discussed in some detail.  Allah said in the Qur'an: {Wa aatoo an-nisaa'a saduqaatihinna nihlatan.  Fa in tibna lakum 'an shai'in minhu nafsan fa kuloohu hanee'an maree'an.} {And give women their dowries as a gift.  Then, if they are pleased to give some of it to you, consume it with good health and enjoyment.}  An-Nisaa:4 The payment of the dowry to the wife is an obligation and a debt upon the husband until he pays it and there is no escaping it unless the wife freely and willingly gives up her right to it.  In the past, and in many cases today, the father tries to take the mahr away from his daughter.  In the jahiliya, this was justified by saying that the father was merely recouping all the expenses he put forth for his daughter who is now a member of another family and benefits them. Nowadays, it occurs often in this country that the husband tries to take back the dowry (if it is even paid in the first place) or make use of it in forms of spending which were obligatory upon HIM in the first place.  This is a lowly practice and is completely forbidden unless she explicitly allows it without any coercion or pressure.  Otherwise, it is HER property and she may dispose of it (or not) as she alone sees fit. Support (Nafaqah) Allah says: {...Wa 'alaa al-mauloodi lahu rizquhunna wa kiswatuhunna bi al-ma'roofi laa tukallafu nafsun illa wus'ahaa...} {...And upon the father is the mother's sustenance and her clothing according to what is reasonable.  No person shall have a burden on him greater than he can bear...}  Al-Baqara:233 Her support is one of the most important rights of the wife over her husband.  Ibn Katheer commented that the above verse implies that he must provide for her without extravagance nor the opposite, according to his ability and the standards set by his society at his time.  When the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) was asked by a man, "What is the right of our wives upon us?", he (sas) answered: "An yut'imahaa idha ta'ima wa an yaksoohaa idhaa iktasaa wa laa yadhribi al-wajhi wa laa yuqabbih wa laa yahjur illa fiy al-baiti." "That he should feed her whenever he eats and cloth her whenever he clothes himself, that he not hit her face, that he not call her ugly and that he not boycott her except within the house."  Ibn Majah A woman is even allowed to take from her husband's property without his knowledge if he falls below this basic level of supporting her.  In a hadith recorded in Muslim and Bukhari, the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) told Hind bint Utbah, after she complained that her husband, Abu Sufyan, was stingy and was not maintaining her and she asked if she could take from his property without his knowledge: "Khudhiy maa yakfeeka wa waladaki bi al-ma'roofi" "Take was is sufficient for you and your child according to what is customary."  Muslim & Bukhari Support of one's wife is one of the most important obligations of the husband.  It is one of the distinguishing aspects of "husbandhood".  Allah said in the Qur'an: {Ar-rijaalu qawwaamoona 'alaa an-nisaa'i bimaa fadh-dhala Allahu ba'dhahum 'alaa ba'dhin wa bimaa anfaqoo min amwaalihim...} {Men are in charge of women because of what Allah has given to some more than others and because they support them from their property.}  An-Nisaa:34 If a husband does not support his wife, she has no obligation to fulfill her obligations to him.  If a woman goes to a judge and shows that her husband will not support her, the judge may immediately separate them according to numerous scholars.   The verse makes clear that the man being "in charge" goes back to the two causes mentioned.  This means two things: 1) both men and women need to be aware of this right and this obligation and that the woman is under no obligation to stay in the marriage if she is not supported - regardless of his wealth and hers and 2) Muslim society must be organized in such a way that Muslim men are able to get the means to support a wife. This second point is critical.  If society reaches a state where women are more able to earn a living than men, this will undermine the "in charge" status of many men in their households.  It wil in fact undermine the Islamic household altogether.  This is what is happening in virtually every Muslim land today with U.N. and other organizations giving primary attention to helping women to be economically viable and independent even when a large percentage of the men still cannot find the means to support a family.  (It is the same destruction they inflicted on families in the U.S. in the 50's 60's with the welfare system.)  The corrupting influence this will have on society as a whole cannot even begin to be described. Women are absolutely ALLOWED in Islam to pursue business ventures (the Prophet's first wife Khadija was a major business woman in Makka), employment and other means of earning money.  They are, in fact, needed in various sectors such as women doctors and women teachers.  However, facilitating the ability of men to earn a living and support a family is the FIRST priority in an Islamic society.  All economic planning and social/economic programs must be in line with this principal. Kind and Proper Treatment Allah says: {...Wa 'aashiroohunna bi al-ma'roofi fa in karihtumoohunna ta 'asaa an takrahoo shai'an wa yaj'ala Allahu feehi khairan katheeran.} {...And consort with your wives in a goodly manner for, if you dislike them, it may well be that you dislike something  which Allah makes a source of abundant good.} An-Nisaa:19 Commenting on this verse, Ibn Katheer wrote: "That is, have kind speech for them, deal with them with kind deeds and in a beautiful manner to the best of your ability.  In the way that you love that from them, behave in that way towards them.  As Allah has said, "They have rights similar to those upon them according to what is right" (Al-Baqarah:228).  The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) said: "The best of you is the best of you to his wives and I am the best of you to my wife."  It was from his behavior that he would treat them in a beautiful fashion, with a smiling face.  He would sport with his wives, be gentle with them and spend generously upon them.  He would laugh with his wives and he even raced Aisha... Every night, he would gather his wives together in the house of the one with whom he (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) was going to spend the night and eat dinner with them on occasion... After he prayed the night prayer, he would enter his house and talk to his wife a little bit before sleeping, making them comforted thereby.  And Allah has said: {You have in the Messenger of Allah the best example.}" Part of the problem is Muslims buying into the fantasy world being propagated in television, movies and other media.  The hadith about the rib makes it clear that it is rare to find a "perfect wife" and in the same manner, no woman should expect to find the "perfect husband".  If one is living in some fantasy world, they are apt to be greatly disappointed with real life. Physical Relations In Sahih Ibn Hibban, the following was narrated: "The wife of 'Uthman ibn Madh'oon complained to the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) that her husband had no need for women.  During the days he would fast and at night he would pray.  The Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) asked him: "Am I not the best example for you to follow?"  He answered: "Certainly, may my father and mother be sacrificed for you."  The Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) then told him:  "As for you, you pray during the night and you fast during the day.  Certainly, your wife has a right upon you and your body has a right upon you so pray and sleep and fast and break your fast." There are several similar incidents narrated where Companions of the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) gave similar decisions in similar situations.  In one story which took place in the presence of Umar, the Companion who was judging told the husband that since Allah had given him the right to four wives and he had only one that he could practice his praying and fasting three out of four nights, but that at least one in four had to be reserved for his wife. Not to be Beaten It is the right of the Muslim wife that she is not to be struck except in the case of nushooz (rebellion against the husband's authority).  Even in that case, the husband is only allowed to "strike" her, but in a way which does no harm, similar to the proper disciplining of a child.  It is never lawful for him to strike her face or cause her any bruise or injury.  Allah says in the Qur'an: {...Wa allaatiy takhaafoona nushoozahunna fa'idhoohunna wahjuroohunna fiy al-madhaaji'i wadhriboohunna fa in ata'nakum falaa tabghoo 'alaihinna sabeelan inna Allaha kaana 'aliyyan kabeeran.} {...And (as for) those (women) from whom you anticipate rebellion, admonish them, avoid them in the sleeping place and hit them.  If they obey you, do not desire and further way to (harm) them.  Surely, Allah is Knowing, Great.}  An-Nisaa:34 It is incomprehensible how so many translators have translated the word "wadhriboohunna" in the above verse as "beat them" or, even more laughable:  "beat them [lightly]".  This is wrong, wrong, wrong.  It is an abomination which has caused much misunderstanding and opened the door to the enemies of Islam.  The word in Arabic means to "strike" or "hit".  It inludes everything from a tap with a tooth-stick to what in English we call beating.  If it is stated that so-and-so "hit" so-and-so without further description, it would be assumed to be a single blow and it could be of any magnitude. When the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) took a tiny stick and tapped one of the Muslims on the stomach to straighten the ranks in preparation for war, he "hit" him with this meaning.  Contrast this to the English phrase:  "beat them".  The meaning is totally different.  If you took a shoe lace and hit someone on the hand with it, you could properly say dharabtahu in Arabic but in English you could never say that you had "beaten" that person.  Please get this straight and correct anyone you hear distorting the meaning of this verse in this way. The verse mentions admonition, boycotting and hitting in the case of nushooz.  This refers to a rebellion against the husband's authority within the marriage which amounts to a breach of the marriage contract on her part.  Ibn Taimia said about this: "Nushooz in the verse: {...And (as for) those (women) from whom you anticipate rebellion (nushooz)...} means that she is recalcritrant to her husband and she is estranged to him inasmuch as she does not obey him when he calls her to bed, or she leaves the house without his permission and other similar things in which she is required to obey him." Many scholars have stated that the three steps must be taken sequentially, i.e, admonition then separation in sleeping and finally hitting, making hitting a last resort only in extreme situations.  Thus the vast majority of whan men do to their wives in spontaneous fits of rage often over trivial issues is absolutely haraam and not sanctioned by Islam in any way.  An-Nawawi said about his: "At the first indication of disobedience to marital authority, a wife should be exhorted by her husband without his immediately breaking off relations with her.  When she manifests her disobedience by an act which, although isolated, leaves no doubt to her intentions, he should repeat his exhortations and confine her to the house but without striking her... Only when there are repeated acts of disobedience may a husband strike his wife." As we said, this can NEVER be a "beating".  A husband is never allowed to strike his wife in any way which causes injury or leaves any kind of mark.  The Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) said: "Fattaqoo Allaha fiy an-nisaa'i fa innakum akhadhtumoohunna bi amaani Allahi wa istahlaltum furoojahunna bi kalimati Allahi wa lakum 'alaihinna an laa yooti'na furushakum ahadan takrahoonahu fa in fa'alna dhaalika fadhriboohunna dharban ghaira mubarrihin wa lahunna 'alaikum rizquhunna wa kiswatuhunna bi al-ma'roofi." "So beware of Allah regarding women for you have taken them as a trust from Allah and you have made their bodies lawful with the word of Allah.  You have the right over them that they should not allow anyone on your furnishings who you dislike.  If they do that, hit them in a way which causes no injury.  And, they have the right over you to provision and clothing according to custom." Bukhari & Muslim Privacy It is actually the right of both spouses that the other not discuss their private moments with anyone else.  Note the following sahih hadith: "Is there any man among you who goes to his wife, closes the door behind them, covers themselves and conceal themselves by Allah's concealing?"  They said: "Yes."  He then said: "Then he sits after that [with others] and says, 'I did this and that.'"  They were silent.  He then turned to the women and said: "Do any of you talk about such things?"  They, too, were silent.  Then a young girl stood up on her toes so the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) could see her and hear her and she said: "O Messenger of Allah they [the men] certainly talk about that and they [the women] also talk about it."  He (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) said:  "Do you know what they are like?  They are like a female devil who met a male devil in the street and they satisfied their desires with the people looking on."  Abu Daud (sahih) Justice If a man has more than one wife, he is required to do justice between them in terms of physical things (housing, clothing, food, etc.) and nights spent with each.  Allah said: {Wa lan tastatee'oo an ta'diloo baina an-nisaa'i wa lau harastum.  Fa laa tameeloo kulla al-maili fa tadhharuhaa ka al-mu'allaqati.  Wa in tuslihoo wa tattaqoo ta inna Allaha kaana ghafooran raheeman.} {And you will not be able to effect justice between the women no matter how hard you try.  So do not incline [toward some] completely such that you leave [another] as if suspended.  And if you reform and fear Allah, surely Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.}  An-Nisaa:129 The Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) indicated that there are forms of justice which are required just as there are forms of justice which are beyond human ability.  Those which are required are money, housing, cloting and the like as well as nights spent with her.  Those beyond human ability are feelings of the heart and things like that.  He  (sas) said: "Allahumma hadhaa qismiy feemaa amliku falaa talumniy feemaa tamliku wa laa amliku." "O Allah, this is my division in what I control, so do not blame me regarding that which You control and I do not."  Abu Daud (some graded it weak, others graded it hassan). Also, the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) warned of the dangers of not fulfilling justice where it is required between wives, saying: "Man kana lahu imra'taan fa maala ilaa ihdaahumaa jaa'a yauma al-qiyamati wa shiqquhu maa'ilun." "Whoever has two wives and favors one of them will be resurrected on Qiyama with one of his sides hanging down."  Abu Daud (sahih) To Be Taught Her Religion The Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam): "Kullukum raa'in wa kullukum mas'oolun 'an ra'iyyatihi.  Al-imaamu raa'in wa mas'oolun 'an ra'iyyatihi wa ar-rajulu raa'in tiy ahlihi wa huwa mas'oolun 'an ra'iyyatihi." "All of you are shepherds and all of you will be asked about your wards.  The ruler is a shepherd and shall be asked about his wards.  The man is a shepherd of his family and will be asked about his ward."  Bukhari Knowledge in Islam is of two types:  1) that which is obligatory upon each and every Muslim and 2) that which must be learned by some among the Ummah.  Of the first type, it is obligatory for every Muslim woman to know her beliefs, how to pray, how to fast, as well as issues particular to woman such as how to purify herself from her monthly course, etc.  She must also know her obligations toward parents, her husband (and his obligations toward him), her children, her neighbors, etc. as well as her rights over each of those. It is the obligation of the husband to make sure that she acquires all the knowledge which it is obligatory for her to acquire.  If this means that he has to spend money on books or tapes, then he must do so.  The scholars have emphasized the importance of this right of women to the extent that many of them have given her permission to leave the house to attend a lecture at the masjid even without her husband's permission. It is well-known that the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) said that seeking knowledge is incumbent upon every Muslim mail and female.  Allah said in the Qur'an: {Yaa ayyuhaa alladhina aamanoo qoo anfusakum wa ahleekum naaran waqooduhaa an-naasu wa al-hijaaratu 'alaihaa malaa'ikatun ghilaadhun shidaadun la ya'soona Allaha maa amarahum wa yaf'aloona ma yu'maroona.} {O you who believe guard yourselves and your family members from a fire whose fuel is people and stones.  Over it are tough and fearsome angels.  They do not disobey Allah in any order they carry out that which they are ordered to do.}  At-Tahreem:6 Part of the meaning of this verse is that the husband/father (the "shepherd" of the household) must take all necessary means to ensure that all those under his guardianship (wives and children) have the opportunity and the means to acquire all the knowledge they need to worship Allah and live their lives as Allah has prescribed that we live our lives.  If he has fulfilled that, then he has fulfilled his obligation and will not be asked about the sins of his wife and children.  If he fails to fulfill this, then he himself will be asked about their sins and their going astray based on HIS shortcomings in not fulfilling his obligations in this regard. In another version of the hadith about the "shepherds", the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) continues: "...hattaa yus'ala ar-rajulu 'an ahli baitihi:  a aqaama feehim shar'a Allahi am adhaa'a?" "...until the man will be asked about the people in his household:  did he establish among them the law of Allah or did he allow it to become lost?" To Defend Her Honor A man should be "jealous" with regard to his wife's honor and standing.  He should defend her whenever she is slandered or spoken ill of behind her back.  Actually, this is a right of every Muslim in general but a right of the spouse specifically.  He should also be jealous in now allowing other men to look at his wife or speak with her in a manner which is not appropriate.  The Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) mentioned in a sahih hadith that "Three will never enter paradise... ad-dayyooth."  Ad-dayyooth (sometimes translated "henpecked") is the weak husband who has no jealousy toward his wife and other men. "Jealousy" in this sense means fervor for the boundaries of Allah and anger when they are transgressed.  The Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) said: "Inna Allaha yughaaru wa inna al-mu'mina yughaaru wa ghairatu Allahi an ya'tiya al-mu'minu maa harrama 'alaihi." "Verily, Allah has jealousy and the believer has jealousy.  Allah's jealousy is due to a believer committing that which He has forbidden him."  Muslim This does not mean, however, that a Muslim should go overboard on this point suspecting his wife at every turn and trying to spy on her.  This becomes Adh-dhann (suspicion) which the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) warned us about in the following hadith in Bukhari and Muslim: "Iyyaakum wa adh-dhanna fa inna adh-dhanna akdhabu al-hadith." "Stay away from suspicion for suspicion is the most lying of speech." by Jamal Zarabozo Source:java-man.com.marriage.html Courtesy: www.everymuslim.com

Re: Marital duties in Islamm
jannah
04/23/03 at 16:31:47
[wlm] I think UmmWafi gave some great advice ma'shallah. It is definitely something the husband and wife should come to a consensus on and if they can't do that they should go to an Imam or counselor to help them. To just demand your rights with fatwas without looking at the circumstances and other factors involved is probably not conducive to a good relationship. That being said... I really have to object to this commentary: [quote]This second point is critical.  If society reaches a state where women are more able to                    earn a living than men, this will undermine the "in charge" status of many men in their                    households.  It wil in fact undermine the Islamic household altogether.  This is what is                    happening in virtually every Muslim land today with U.N. and other organizations giving                    primary attention to helping women to be economically viable and independent even                    when a large percentage of the men still cannot find the means to support a family.  (It                    is the same destruction they inflicted on families in the U.S. in the 50's 60's with the                    welfare system.)  The corrupting influence this will have on society as a whole cannot                    even begin to be described.  [/quote] Does this mean women should not have equal pay for a job or she should not have the job? Or that the UN or whoever should not help women to be economically independent most likely through education or training? Just because the economy may not be good in some countries, I dont think it's an excuse to undermine women and their value to society. In a *perfect* Islamic society we may have men supporting women and if that is not possible the state. However, this doesn't work to a large extent nowadays. What about if something happens to your husband and you have no way to support yourself or your children? The state in large part does NOT help you in Muslim countries and I've seen it myself. In fact, if it is the right of a woman to work Islamically (for example when in school to help her family with expenses, when she is single, before having children, after her children are grown up.. if she is a widow or divorcee, etc) then I don't see how a real Islamic state can actually take this role of only helping men to be economically viable!

Re: Marital duties in Islam
a_Silver_Rose
04/23/03 at 17:12:34
[wlm] Personally I believe the author makes a good point, but then again there are always exceptions to everything. It is wonderful if she wants to help, but her husband demanding her to is NOT RIGHT. She wrote: [quote]I have my own car which I make payments on, a school loan which I pay off, car insurance, medical insurance, I pay for my birth control which he wants me on because he does not want kids, my cell phone in addition to other expenses, such as my clothes and personal items. In other words, I am not expecting him to take all the burden.  But it is crossing the line when he tries to demand the help and calls me stingy is it not?   I spent 5 months without work in which he would not even help me pay my car payments. That is not the basis of marriage in Islam to demand your wife work.  [/quote] IN my opinion this is CLEARLY wrong. 'she pays for birth control that HE wants her to take", she also pays for her clothes. Astagfirullah.  Support from her husband is her GOD GIVEN right. It is just so frustrating to  me becaues I have heard tooo many woman complain that they do not get this right. (I give advice on a another board) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [color=Purple]I just wanted to add some things. First of all I would like to congratulate on your marriage. :-* Also I wanted to tell you when you approach your husband, aproach him in the kindest of manners and use hikma (wisdom) when explaining to him your feelings.rights, ect. Make dua constantly to help your marriage and rmember only Allah (swt) changes the hearts. Trust Allah and HE will not dissapoint you. At the end of the day one should try their best to make the marriage work and have the goal of achieving paradise together. In the Islamic premarriage conference I went to, This couple told us that whenever they have a problem they look back in Qur'an.  That is their secret. This other old lady was asked how her marriage lasted for many years. She said that it is 'work; each and every day. There is alot of useful information in: http://www.jannah.org/sisters/marriage.html and http://www.soundvision.com/info/marriage/ that you and your hubs both should read, understand, and act on. May Allah(swt) make your marriage a success and bring you happiness in this life and in the hereafter. Ameen. your sister[/color]
04/26/03 at 16:58:10
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Abu_Hamza
04/23/03 at 22:01:19
[slm] Jannah, to respond to your post, I think what is being said in the article is that *in general*, the men are more *in need* of employment than women.  This is because it is the *duty* for the man to earn a living and to provide for his household, whereas it isn't for the woman.   There are definitely exceptions to the rule.  A woman who is divorced, who does not have any man to support her.  A woman whose husband is not able to earn enough for the household.  Etc.  Although I must say that these exceptions are less prominent compared to the number of qualified men searching for work in Muslim countries without success.  Nevertheless, I agree with you that these exceptions do exist. So because these exceptions are real and they exist, I think what really needs to be done is for hiring managers to really consider the financial needs of the applicants before deciding who to hire for the job.  What the UN is promoting in Muslim countries is a sort of affirmative action for women, where women with *less* qualifications are being given the jobs over men simply because they are women!  This really works to the detriment of the society when a woman who is hired comes from a middle-class (or worse, upper-class) home, and the only reason she wants to work is to live a life of luxury and/or to "keep herself busy"; and the man comes from a poor family 3 single sisters, a widow mother, and two children who cannot buy new clothes except at Eids! To say that the sex of the person should not be considered when hiring somebody for a job, and only their qualifications should be considered, is not the answer to the economic ills that haunt us.  What really needs to be considered, in addition to the qualifications of the applicant, is how *essential* it is for the him/her to work: how many dependants he/she has, and what the total income of the household is.

Re: Marital duties in Islam
a_Silver_Rose
04/24/03 at 01:22:12
[slm] [quote]To my knowledge, is it not  a man's duty to provide food, shelter and other things to his wife and even if his wife works, her money is hers but she can help if she does so willingly? I believe it is it called nifaq. Can someone please give me the information. I would like to show my husband (who of course is a Muslim) that what I am saying is not abnormal. Jazzakum Allah Khair [/quote] Part of article from http://www.jannah.org/genderequity/equitychap2.html. Financial security is assured for women. They are entitled to receive martial gifts without limit and to keep present and future properties and income for their own security, even after marriage. No married woman is required to spend any amount at all from her property and income on the household. In special circumstances, however, such as when her husband is ill, disabled or jobless, she may find it necessary to spend from her earnings or savings to provide the necessities for her family. While this is not a legal obligation, it is consistent with the mutuality of care, love and cooperation among family members. The woman is entitled also to full financial support during marriage and during the waiting period ('iddah) [8] in case of divorce or widowhood. Some jurists require , in addition, one year's support for divorce and widowhood (or until they remarry, if remarriage takes place before the year is over). A woman who bears a child in marriage is entitled to child support from the child's father. Generally, a Muslim woman is guaranteed support in al stages of her life, as a daughter, wife and mother or sister. The financial advantages accorded to women and not to men in marriage and in family have a social counterpart in the provisions that the Qur'an lays down in the laws of inheritance, which afford the male, in most cases, twice the inheritance of a female. Males inherit more but ultimately they are financially responsible for their female relatives: their wives, daughters, mothers and sisters. Females inherit less but retain their share for investment and financial security, without any legal obligation to spend any part of it, even for their own sustenance (food, clothing, housing, medication, etcetera). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Part of article from http://www.soundvision.com/Info/marriage/basicsofhappy.asp Finance: One of the most common points of contention in marriages is money. Experts tell us that 80 percent of marital conflicts are about money. It is therefore highly recommended that the couple put serious time and effort in developing a financial management plan that is mutually agreeable and is reviewed every six months or so. Preparing a budget together is also a helpful and wise way to handling household finances. It should be remembered that the wife's money in Islam is hers to do with as she pleases and therefore should not be considered family income unless she chooses to contribute it to the family

Re: Marital duties in Islam
bhaloo
04/24/03 at 01:34:25
[slm] Affirmative action isn't the solution.  The solution would be for other male relatives to help take up the responsibility of taking care of their divorced/unmarried sisters, and if that is not possible, then zakat money from the state should be used to help. Abu Hamza why do you have a quote forom Ghandi? ???

Re: Marital duties in Islam
panjul
04/24/03 at 01:47:17
[slm] You pay for your clothes, your car, your birth control pills, your insurance. What else does he want you to pay for? His car? the house? apartment bills? the electricity bill? the water bill? I think that's unfair. Sorry, can't give you any advise. But after reading the thread in the Ikhwan cafe and then your thread, i'm soooo glad that mashallah my husband's not like that/

Re: Marital duties in Islam
jannah
04/25/03 at 02:25:06
[slm] Hmmm affirmative action for poor people? it might work abu hamza.. but i thought that was called employment!!!  :p i don't know how objective that would be anyway, how would you decide who really needs more?? and what does that do to that society when things are based on need and not merit.. i think shariah is legislated for a reason and many of the rulings in islam are set up to make the system work.. but you can't just impose something from the top to make the system works.. it has to work freely with all the parts doing the right things... this reminds me of the semester i wanted to be an economics major :0 ahh anyway back to the topic... i think lightningatnite is right in that the man should provide food, shelter, clothing etc but if she wants a particular lifestyle then she should not put that obligation on him as well but share in that responsibility... btw barr sent me a book awhile ago entitled: Tranquil Hearts: A Guide to Marriage. It's really quite excellent. Very fair and balanced and alot of good advice, tips, ideas and everything laid out from Quran and Sunnah.

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Nomi
04/25/03 at 09:09:07
[slm] all My vote is with brother Abu Hamza and bro Arshad :) .. why? well for those of you who understand urdu check out this speech by Mr. Tariq Jameel and as far as i know all school of thoughts of ahlay-sunnah-wa-jamaat have the same ruling on the matter that women are the "heart" of house so they should emphasize more on the nurturing of their children because each child will grow to make another family, yes i know that men have to play an inportant role in that as well but still its the ladies who have more impact on the children i came across an article in which a westerner (non-muslim) author asked the working ladies to go back to home due to the increasing number of latch key kids, spoilt family system of the west etc (and yes "exceptions" are there but only 5%? (may be less) of the working ladies will be the exceptional cases!) i've uploaded that urdu speech on my website it worths listening, two files make one speech, here is the link http://allahis.lookingat.us Do inform me if someone interested finds any problems in downloading it Asim Zafar
04/25/03 at 09:38:04
Nomi

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Dude
04/25/03 at 10:28:37
I haven’t read all these- only the first couple. I hope I don’t repeat anything. The fact is that out here, newlyweds will have high expenses until they can get the mortgage paid down. If you want to own a home, you will more than likely have to take on a mortgage- unless somebody buys the house for you. Most of us don’t count on others to buy a house for us. Sharing the expenses will be necessary, unless you want to live in a rented, run down shack. It’s just the reality. There is the religious duty, but you also need to be realistic, too. Anyone who has bought a house without assistance from parents, or other "free" money, knows what I'm talking about. Here’s how we did it. We sat down and went over all of our “family” expenses: mortgage, vehicles, food, home maintenance, kids expenses, medical, charity, and RSPs. We added up the monthly cost, then added 50%. The 50% helps build a rainy day cushion for unexpected expenses, or a tough month. From here, we looked at our yearly incomes, and split the monthly expenses according to our income. In our case, I earn more than Mrs. Dude, so I bear 60% of the monthly expenses, she bears 40%. The rest of the money, we spend as we want, no questions asked (clothes, entertainment, whatever). If we decide to vacation, we each pool some cash from our personal accounts and cover it that way. It’s a very workable system that we tweak occasionally when things happen to necessitate change (i.e.: having a baby... maternity pay is 40% of her yearly income). Anyhow…hope it helps.
04/25/03 at 10:32:30
Dude

Re: Marital duties in Islam
lightningatnite
04/25/03 at 12:31:36
[slm] Dear sister inshaAllah you will have patience and do what is pleasing to Allah.  Marriages can be extremely difficult, but try your best not to go to war.  That can only lead down the path to disaster.  You and your husband are not opposing enemies.  You are one unit.  One soul.  I understand that your husband may need some talking to, but as we cannot communicate with him I will direct this message to you. Islam teachers gender differentiation.  A man is not a woman, and a woman is not a man.  Each has their own unique strengths and weaknesses.  Allah has laid down the rules for social interaction to perfect human life, so that we may abide in peace and tranquility as a God-fearing society.  The architects of Western civilization have not paid consideration to "God-fearedness" when designing the social conventions and laws that they applied to society.   My own personal struggle has been to disregard Western ideologies as much as possible and look for wisdom in the teachings of our Messenger.  Any calling within me that goes against the Shariah is from the winds of my nafs. In Islam, a wife in marriage is entitled to physical support and kindness.  She should be encouraged to fulfill her required Islamic duties as well, such as learning required knowledge, visiting parents, performing salat, Hajj, etc.  She should not be hurt physically or emotionally. A husband is entitled to obedience from his wife.  She should care for the home, family, and children.  According to shaykh Mokhtar Magraoui, a wife must be obedient to her husband in all things not disobedient to Allah.  Of course, anything that violates your Islamic rights would be considered as disobedience to Allah. This is the relationship that Allah has given us.  The relationships that we create may not be characterized by these qualities, and they may or may not succeed.  And our understanding of success may not be what Allah has envisioned as successful. One example someone gave me is that we don't mind doing what our employer tells us...because they pay our bills.  We'll dress the way they like, get up early in the morning, talk the talk and walk the walk.  So sisters, if your husband is paying the bills, he deserves the same respect you'd give a boss at work.  Fair enough isn't it?   At the same time, there's a whole list of things I could say to husbands...but I'll save that in case I get in trouble with the  :-)s In your case, it seems your husband is forcing you to work?  Has he asked you to stay home, or take care of certain things that don't seem to get done?  I'm just trying to look for possible reasons why he'd be so insisting on you paying for things.  Would it make things better if you didn't work? About paying for a mortgage...my own feeling is that if you can't afford a house unless both husband and wife work, then you can't afford the house.  As Muslim men we should not be dependent on our wives money to pay for anything.  If its there, then alhamdulillah, but otherwise there are so many critical areas that sisters can become involved in that may not pay well in this life but are certainly good for the akhira.  Running the masjid, weekend school, fulltime school, teachers, nurserys, counselors, women scholars, are all lacking in our communities.  Our next young generation of Muslims are potentially sitting on disaster if we don't think of ways to educate them Islamically.  As Muslims our future is not threatened by lack of money, it has deeper roots.
04/25/03 at 12:36:32
lightningatnite

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Dude
04/25/03 at 14:32:26
With all due respect, my guess is that you haven’t been married, and have never purchased a house. Am I right or wrong? If I’m wrong, I’ll apologize in advance. Should a family that plans to raise two or more children purchase something affordable, like a 1 bedroom apartment, where it is a low enough price to allow one member to pay all the expenses, while the other stays home? What happens when the two kids grow up? Should 4 members be expected to share one room? Yes, it happens out of necessity in some parts of the world, but in my mind, you need to provide a comfortable living arrangement. In most cases, these decisions are made through discussion- between husband and wife. Most couples these days have one dominant income provider (usually the husband), and one secondary source (usually the wife, through part-time work that allows her to take care of the family). If your wife is agreeable, then you buy the best you can afford on a monthly basis now, without going “mortgage poor”. It isn’t impossible to save $300,000.00 plus in cash to buy a home without mortgage, but it nearly is for 99.99% of us. Your choices are either, A) Rent at a lower rate, and throw away your money every month, while trying to save at the same time. Or B) Get a mortgage, pay as high a down payment as possible, and pay down the principle as quickly as you can. If I were to choose A, we would be living in a smaller house, throwing away our money to a landlord every month, and possibly not saving enough to buy a home outright for over 20 years. Option B has allowed us to buy a home, and at the current rate, we’ll have it owned outright in less than 10. For us, that’s 15 years total. You see, family expenses will get in the way of saving money. Running a household is expensive in the West…just the facts of life. If you have a better way of building a home (i.e.: your parents will give you the money, without having to pay back, or allow you to pay back at zero interest), great…take advantage. But, in reality, you need to make the decisions as a family, and sacrifice while your young enough to get that house paid down as quickly as possible. This does need to be agreeable to both husband and wife, whatever path you choose. Your methodology is great, just not entirely realistic. It sounds like this couple may have some issues they need to work out. Hopefully they can, but realistically, if the husband is providing all he can now, and still needs that 50% from his wife to pay all the expenses, if the wife doesn’t want to pay for those expenses, they need to re-evaluate their lifestyle, and downgrade.
04/25/03 at 14:33:17
Dude

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Trustworthy
04/25/03 at 20:55:54
salaam lightningatnite? wife's medical bills isn't included in a husband's responsibility for her?  I think that is misunderstood.  He's required to support her physically, emotionally, and spiritually. but from experienced as a married muslimah, you need to really think about it.  Living in the US, with the economy going down, help is helpful, but not 50/50.  One of the signs of the day of judgement is when a husband and wife's role interchange.  If you make it 50/50, you will need to be prepared for the consequences.  He'll get used to the help and will probably start to sway the other way like not working as hard as before. i've been in your shoes, where i felt it was my duty as a muslim wife to help out my husband in need, but then he started to change and change for the worse leading us to a divorce.  i was being helpful and he was taking advantage of it.  if you know your husband won't do that then a little help isn't so bad. ma-asalaama

Re: Marital duties in Islam
lightningatnite
04/26/03 at 00:38:50
[wlm] [quote]wife's medical bills isn't included in a husband's responsibility for her?[/quote] according to the Maliki madhab.  Please see Sh. Hamza Yusuf's "Marriage: Rights and Responsibilites"  I am not sure of the textual source. I have a good book published in Malaysia that goes into more detail about this issue, especially from a modern perspective.  I'll try to quote it in more detail inshaAllah...
04/26/03 at 00:42:44
lightningatnite

Re: Marital duties in Islam
a_Silver_Rose
04/26/03 at 16:38:57
[slm] This Sister was asking us for her rights, so she can prove to her hubs. I gave her the information. We all agree that she shouldnt pay for the basic  stuff right, well it seems wrong since he wants 50/50. She was asking for 'Islamic' advice, and Islamically this is her right. Shouldnt we all support her in this matter? I am very happy that she atleast knows her rights, Alhumdulilah. Alot of woman think they actually have to go pay the bills also. We do not know her situation at all. The man could also be very rich and if he isnt, then they could do without luxuries. They do not even have kids. Sister Jenn I want you to know that Islamically 'to not have kids' then both husband and wife have to agree on this. I know I have read this and heard of it. If I find the proof, I will show you, inshAllah. I do not know your situation, but just incase you dont know I wanted to tell you that. We have to obey our hubs but in this case it has to be a mutual agreement. [quote]wife's medical bills isn't included in a husband's responsibility for her? [/quote] This does seem quite awkward. If the wife is very sick and as it is her husbands duty to take care of her and support her, shouldnt he be islamically required to pay for medical bills. I found this in http://jannah.org/sisters/marr.html 1) Maintenance The husband is responsible for the wifes maintenance. This right is established by authority of the Qur'an and the sunnah. It is inconsequen tial whether the wife is a Muslim , non-Muslim, rich, poor, healthy or sick. A component of his role as "qawam" (leader) is to bear the financial responsibility of the family in a generous way so that his wife may be assured security and thus perform her role devotedly. The wifes maintenance entails her right to lodging, clothing, food and general care, like medication, hospital bills etc. He must lodge her where he resides himself according to his means. The wifes lodge must be adequate so as to ensure her privacy, comfort and independence. If a wife has been used to a maid or is unable to attend to her household duties, it is the husbands duty to provide her with a maid if he can afford to do so. The prophet is reported to have said: The best Muslim is one who is the best husband. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The different article I put earlier (in the first page, by jamal badawi (gender equity) ) says the same thing. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ anther point I want to emphasize is that even if a woman does NOT have, kids she still does NOT have to work.
04/26/03 at 17:08:42
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marital duties in Islam
theOriginal
04/26/03 at 19:59:36
[slm] My sister has a similar problem...her husband expects her to split the mortgage of the huge mansion he bought for his mother (of which they live in the basement) and she hasn't even completed her education.... She, like you, pays her tuition, her car payments, her clothes etc etc...(on her part-time wage)...She even partially ended up paying for her own birthday present... Anyway, I am not too fond of my brother-in-law, especially since before marriage he insisted that this would not be included in my sister's responsibilities.  With him, no amount of reason, logic, or rationale is ever enough...because in his own twisted way he ends up "proving" that this is her fardh.  (Basically the argument is a woman should do anything her husband wants her to..) If my sister requests to visit us, she has to go through hell in order to be able to do so...and she ends up paying for her own bus/train whatever ticket.  If she asks him to come with her, he says "it is not fardh to be a good son-in-law"....riiiiiight.  (Yet she is expected to be a great daughter-in-law)... I really, really feel your pain. I disagree with the fact that you should have to split things 50/50.  I pray things work out for you... May Allah swt grant us all Hidayah.

Re: Marital duties in Islam
a_Silver_Rose
04/27/03 at 00:27:00
[wlm] She has clearly said hes making her pay for the personal items and wanting to do 50/50 on even the basic items. This is not right in Islam. Her husband just probably didnt know her islamic rights. All she did was ask to show him because he probably did not know.  she asked for proof that the man has to support, so she could show him. There are many muslim couples who sincerely just dont know the Islamic duties/rights of the other. Its good to get him educated in this so he will be saved from doing wrong.  So to tell her to sit there and do with what she is not happy with is not right. This is her right in Islam. So please lets support the sister. IF he thinks he cannot afford things then he can sit there and have less luxuries or get a cheaper apartment, ect. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sister Original may Allah (swt) make things easy for your sister and open the heart/eyes of her husband.  my sis also had the same problem....
04/29/03 at 20:08:48
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Shahida
04/29/03 at 07:44:02
[slm] I'd like to thank everyone for posting the rights and duties of the spouses here, it is good to remind us of them from time to time.  And I pray this sister and her husband will be able to come up with an Islamically-acceptable solution, inshaAllah. What worried me A LOT was that it was mentioned that a wife's medical bills do not constitute part of the husband's duties.  It had never even crossed my mind that people would think this way.  Supporting your wife, meant to me, providing for her needs, be they physical, emotional, spiritual etc, to the best of your ability and within your means.  What if your wife doesn't work...gets sick...gets admitted to hospital...gets expensive treatment and tests...then gets discharged.  Who is to pay for the bill?  Should she then go out and find a job just to pay the bill? Something fishy illogical, therefore I am anxiously awaiting our dear Bro Lightningatnight to provide some evidence. VERY happy that all the prospective husbands I have interviewed have never brought this up.  Even more happy to know about this, so I can question them about it in future. May Allah grant us all spouses who will fulfill their duties towards Him and us in a way that will please Him. Wasalam Shahida :-)

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Dude
04/29/03 at 11:03:01
Agree. Shoc-king. However families decide to manage household finances is between the husband and wife, but at the end of the day, it is not only the husband's religious responsibility to look after his family, but also his moral responsibility. Medical should always be considered a familly expense. Handbags and non-essential clothing are personal.

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Trustworthy
04/29/03 at 13:48:39
theOriginal? why is your sister still with him?  everything you claim of your sister and her husband is Islamically wrong.  does your sister know that?  i'm sorry, but it pains me to see a Muslim husband not follow in the footsteps of the Rasullullah. lightningatnite?   you really need to chack that hadith.  if you're talking about medical bills in the sense of cosmotological surgery which is forbidden then yeah, i see where that hadith fits, but if you're talking about her health, then i can provide many hadiths from Muslim, Bukhari who say different. A husband's role is to support her and the family: food, clothing, shelter, the basic necessities of life.  Life includes the health. my advice to the newly married muslimah: you don't have to give a single penny of your earnings, but you must understand that your husband gave you permission to work so to be a considerate wife, give a little.  your husband have to also understand that he gave you permission to work, so what was his intentions?  to help out or to make you independent of him?  either way it could be a good thing or a bad thing.  in the end, the judgement is yours.   if you want proof to show your husband, you can't take it off the internet.  you need valid hadiths from books and the Qur'an.  we can only help out a little. ma-asalaama

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Maliha
04/29/03 at 13:58:22
[slm] It makes me so sad that Finances are still a major contentious point even amongst Muslims where there is a definitive law explicitly asking husbands to be the main providers of basic necessities to their wives :( Amongst non Muslims these power tugs are common, as the husband requests the wife to split 50/50 and the wife requests the same in the home. Leading to many headaches and arguments. I thought the law in Islam clearly stipulates these matters, thus leaving the role of the wife and husband dignified and intact? Alhamdullillah I have a hubby that doesn't demand a penny from me, and Alhamdullillah I don't feel pinched by helping out in our household. I understand the gist of Lightningatnite and Ummwafi, you are married now and you are a unit. Try to work out these issues amongst you in a sensible manner. Communication should be your stronghold and leave the lines open..there are lots of maybe's in these situations that are very particular to the family dynamics. If all else fails, try to go to an Imam you trust or a knoweldgeable older family member who can arbitrate between you two. Pre marriage counselling for all the un married sisters is a *must*. You will be forced to discuss these issues and clearly lay the expectations ahead of time. I pray things work out for you sis. Maliha :-) [wlm]

Re: Marital duties in Islam
lightningatnite
04/29/03 at 17:08:58
[slm] :) Wow, subhanAllah this thread is tense...I know this is a very difficult issue.  What we need to do is put our emotions aside, and do what is most pleasing to Allah.  That will bring about the most benefit in the situation. First of all, I am not a Faqeeh or even a student of Fiqh!!! :)  I really hate cut and paste Fiqh, as that is not from our tradition.  A fatawa is a legal ruling based on fiqh that applies to a specific situation.  What we know and read about are principles of Fiqh, and they may or may not apply in any given instance.  As for the general principle the religion of Islam does not make it obligatory for a man to bear the medical expenses of his wife in her sickness. The only exception is the childbirth. This quotation is taken from "The Reliance of the Traveler", a standard textbook in Shafia' Fiqh, translated and edited by Nuh Ha Mim Keller. m11.4 (Ibid, p544) cosmetic and medicine The husband is not obliged (N: but rather is recommended) to pay for his wife’s cosmetics, doctors fees, the purchase of medicine for her, and similar expenses (A: though he must pay for expenditure connected with childbirth).   However, I am not sure of the Hanifi and Hanbali positions. Now back to the main question, how to make peace between these two people.  They are a married couple, after all.  There is a tremendous reward for someone who makes peace between two people.  Marriage is the most important institution in an Islamic society.  Anyone experienced in counseling couples on the board?  This is really the responsibilty of a social worker.  They are experienced in handling marital conflicts. There is an amazing book entitled "Tranquil Hearts" published in Singapore that is actually written by 3 social workers (including one sister), who have a very sound knowledge of Islamic Law.  It relates specifically to modern Muslim marriages, and is quite extensive.  Sister Jenin, if you can get a hold of that book, it may be of great benefit to your marriage.  May Allah incline you both towards peace. One of the things mentioned in the chapter on "Responsibility Over Family Resources" is that if a wife is permitted to work outside of the home, it should be based on a pre-negotiated committment with the husband.  Doesn't it make sense that as the head of the family, the husband be part of the decision making process of the wife working. I don't know if there is any experienced [Kathy] married [Kathy] people [Kathy] on the board, maybe they can [Kathy] help? :) :) :)
04/29/03 at 17:19:05
lightningatnite

Re: Marital duties in Islam
lightningatnite
04/29/03 at 17:35:37
[slm] [quote]why is your sister still with him?[/quote] MashaAllah, your sister is struggling with her marriage.  May Allah reward her for it, it is a sign of her maturity.  Although in some cases divorce is a necessary evil (ie. in abuse situations, etc), there is a tremendous reward in being patient and exhausting all available means and resources before resorting to more drastic measures.

e Re: Marital duties in Islam
BroHanif
04/29/03 at 18:27:48
Salaams, I think one of the pressures of living in the West is the cost of living, especially if you live in a city. Whether its, London or Washington the costs are high. I see marrige as this, if yo wanna live in a one bedroom house and your husbands earning 17k a year then that would be fine. Yet its simple if you wanna be living with more rooms in the house in more affluent area you've got to pay more. Now if this means that both partners contribute to the success of the house then whats the problem? If we wanna live in the West then we've got to understand that not many of us are high earners and sometimes sadly the wife HAS to help out. Not many of us can afford properties in the 150k mark and expect to pay off till we are 60. It depends really what your needs are as a couple. If you want the latest electrical gadgets in house and go for a holiday every 6 months then either your a high earner or the wife works or your living with your parents in their house. My situation was that me and wifey worked becuase we ddin't want to go for an interest loan. In my house you won't find the leather sofas or the quality paintaings, got the basics (cooker,fridge,washing machine), paid the bills off and now I'm a happy man. It really is working together as a team and defining wants and needs. If we grumble or moan at the small bills how are we gonna pay for the biggest cost in our life i.e. the house ?. Personally speaking, it would be ideal if you could clear your debts off as soon as poss. Once you are free from the shackles of debt you can carry out more Islamic projects with little amount of money, especially in the West. Salaams Hanif
NS

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Dude
04/29/03 at 18:56:54
It really shocks me how many people get married before having a financial and family plan in place before hand that is agreeable to both man and wife. I hate to say this, but I see this as very prevalent within our local Muslim community. For example (as told above), the wife may be eager for kids, and the husband not wanting them right away…or vice versa. Also, where in some cases the wife has a certain expectation of a nice big home, full of kids, and for her to not work…all the while the husband cannot feasibly afford this. Another example I’ve seen is of the husband completely having 100% control of all the family allowance, including her income, and only giving his wife a paltry allowance on which to spend for herself. It’s so easy to sit down and plan things out, so why is it so overlooked? Maybe it is false expectation of marriage (it’s a continual work in progress). Maybe it is lack of trust from one party to another. Maybe it is unwillingness for both parties to sacrifice to make the household work. I don’t know. Outside of religious arguments, I too believe it is the husband’s responsibility to control the household financially, while the wife brings up the child-rearing end. God’s inclusion of a uterus in woman and exclusion of one for men has made this a necessity. That said, the best family situation is where both sides help contribute to the other’s, somehow. We’ve found the healthiest family atmosphere is where Mrs. Dude spends most of the time with the kids, and I spend most of my time working. BUT…I also stop work at a certain time every day so I can spend time with the kids. I could very easily work longer hours, and not see the kids, all the while keeping Mrs. Dude at home. But, this way I wouldn’t be as involved with the kids, and she wouldn’t be able to continue with her career. She likes her job, and frankly, the extra money is great. This helps us fulfill another religious obligation: stay debt free. Impossible right now, but we’re working towards it faster than possible otherwise. If I had half a million given to me before getting married, great: the wife wouldn’t work. That said, we’ve built everything we have on our own, and are able to balance our hectic lives. The side benefit is that her parents get the kids during the day, and we can pay them some “expenses” for watching the kids (they’ve never taken money from us we try to give them, but this way we can insist on giving them some, and let them save for whatever they want to spend the extra cash on). We’ve done it together, and there have been no big surprises or problems we can’t overcome on our own. Communication is the #1 key to a successful marriage. As much as trust, open communication is required. It’s really surprising that a lot of people don’t seem to get that. Sorry for the rant. It just seems common sense has been thrown out the window. Maybe some live TV counseling is in order. You’re welcome, Dr. Phil. ::)
04/29/03 at 18:57:41
Dude

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Dude
04/29/03 at 18:59:53
Hanif, Just saw your post. You're a stud bro. ;) Phil.

Re: Marital duties in Islam
a_Silver_Rose
04/29/03 at 19:37:24
[slm][quote]MashaAllah, your sister is struggling with her marriage.  May Allah reward her for it, it is a sign of her maturity.  Although in some cases divorce is a necessary evil (ie. in abuse situations, etc), there is a tremendous reward in being patient and exhausting all available means and resources before resorting to more drastic measures. [/quote] I agree there is a tremendous amount of rewrd in being patient but you also have to look at the future and think about your kids. I told my self that I can put up with the worse of situations but why do my kids have to put up with the worse of situation? IT might be actually wrong to let your kids live in a bad enviornment. Lots of times kids imitate their parents, and to see their dad doing that  the son might grow up doing the same thing. Especially if your spouse is doing everything Islamically wrong. Divorce is aloud for a reason.  And there is also such thing as mental abuse. If you read Qur'an it seems to be saying that if your spouse is not giving you your Islamic rights and not cooperating no matter then to have a peaceful setttlement in the matter.   I think if we follow what is ordered in Qur'an then we would be living alot more peacefully. [i]If ye fear breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: for Allah hath full knowledge, and is aquainted with all things. [/i] (Qur'an 4:35). so I really think that anyone who is having marital problems (meaning the other one is not giving them their Islamic right) (and they cant work it among themselves) then to follow what the above ayah (what is ordered in Qur'an) [i]If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best, even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, Allah is well acquainted with all that ye do[/i] (Qur'an 4:128) [i]But if they disagree (and must part), Allah will provide abundance for all from His all -reaching bounty: for Allah is He that careth for all and is Wise.[/i](Qur'an 4:130). Allah (swt) gives us orders on how to handle our situation, and doesnt tell us to just put up with the oppression. Infact Allah (swt) repeatedly tells to be just and stop opression. What sister Original's sister is going through I see that as a form of oppression. We should just not sit there but do something about it. (also by being patient at the same time) For example she needs to tell her hubs that this is wrong Islamically and make lots of dua also. One of the reasons for marriage in Islam is to develop a bigger/better  ummah To do this you have to have your kids grow up in a good enviornement. Also dont forget even during the sahaba's time the good muslims divorced if  it did not work out. IF all in the end it does not work then Allah (swt) clearly tells us that HE will provide something better for us.

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Dude
04/29/03 at 19:45:16
On the same note, any man who'll hit his wife or abuse his kids is a coward who'll get his in the hereafter as well. Lots of pitchforks and flames baby. Phil.

Re: Marital duties in Islam
a_Silver_Rose
04/29/03 at 20:33:54
As'Salaamu Alaikum Sister Maliha and Sister Truthworthy make some good points, Mash'Allah. [quote]As for the general principle the religion of Islam does not make it obligatory for a man to bear the medical expenses of his wife in her sickness. The only exception is the childbirth. [/quote] I have to disagree. I understand why it sais that in the reliance of the traveler (got the book :)) I believe it is because the prophet was asked what are the rights of the wife.  [saw] answered that to 'be fed and clothed in kindness' Simply because the words  'medical bills' were not mentioned .... I know Allah (swt) tells us in Qur'an that the man is respoinsible of supporting the wife. As sister Shahida said: [quote].  Supporting your wife, meant to me, providing for her needs, be they physical, emotional, spiritual etc, to the best of your ability and within your means. [/quote] I can drop down to saying that if medical bills becomes a 'need' then I belive it is required by the husband to pay those bills. As his duty is maintanance. Worldwide scholar, Jamal Badawi in 'gender equity' said that it is required for the husband to pay medical bills and also all the other authors of the articles I posted say the same. Allah (swt) knows best. I want to make the point that I know families in which the husband do not make much, the wife is not working, and they have many kids, and living in the US, and are living a healthy and happy life, mash'Allah. (sure they are not making any loans of any sort or doing anything islamically unlawful, i know them personally as Alhumdulilah they spend their time in the masjid alot) I also want to quote what a sister told me when she private messaged me:  [quote]...some individuals have a theme of “But things are different now” running through their posts…as though we need to redefine Quranic interpretation for the modern age – which in some cases we do (scholars of the past did live differently) but not when the interpretation of Rasullullah  or his beloved companions is clear… And these things are indicative of a certain lack of humility [/quote] AFter that she said: [quote](I would never say this in a post – can you imagine the diatrabe that would result??  )…[/quote] Please prove her wrong and I beg you sister to forgive me for writing this without your permission. I think you made a good point and it should be heard. (ofcourse while remaining anonymous). Allah (swt) knows best. Forgive me if said anything wrong your sister
05/03/03 at 22:14:12
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Dude
04/30/03 at 00:59:01
[quote]I want to make the point that I know families in which the husband do not make much, the wife is not working, and they have many kids, and living in the US, and are living a healthy and happy life, mash'Allah. (sure they are not making any loans of any sort or doing anything islamically unlawful, i know them personally as Alhumdulilah they spend their time in the masjid alot) [/quote] God bless them for it. Serious question- what is the greater evil: paying down your own mortgage, or paying down an unrelated landlord's mortgage? Is it better to set your children up to one day inherit a home and property you own, or to spend your life paying rent instead of paying down a mortgage, and potentially leaving them with nothing? Common sense. Let's say you have little of your own cash flow to start-up with...perhaps just enough for a minimum down payment. You can be happy, take good care of your family, and chose to pay down a mortgage as quickly as possible, or you can chose to be happy, take good care of your family, and pay rent for the rest of your life. Meanwhile, your landlord (who is not related, and quite possibly not Muslim) has his property mortgage paid down by you. It's about smart choices. If you are able to do it, the smart decision is to take on the mortgage. It is also the best decision for the long-term security of your children. For most of us who enter a marriage with little more than an education, a job, but no money, a mortgage is a necessary evil. In the long term, you set your children up for the best future. Keeping in perspective, some simply can't afford to buy a home even with the help of a mortgage, but that doesn't make them any less a family because of it. Yours in tough love, Phil.

Re: Marital duties in Islam
sofia
04/30/03 at 10:52:45
As-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah, Two things: 1) There are scholars (like Munajjid, Qaradawi, etc) who hold the opinion that a husband is legally responsible for paying for his wife's/family's medical treatment, since it can be considered part of taking care of her well-being, all within reason (ex/ not for unnecessary procedures, within his means, etc). In fact, even if there is an opinion that he is not responsible, it does not mean that he is not strongly encouraged to do so, that it's not loved by God to do so, nor that there may not be situations in which it becomes obligatory for him to do so. One-liners do not always cover all aspects of a ruling. Allahu A'lim. In any case, it's not even the sister's main question, which has more to do with what a husband is financially responsible for, in general. As far as I know, there is no school of thought that obligates a wife to work outside of the home to pay for needed household expenses if there is no need (ie, her husband can pay for their basic cost of living) and if it has not been explicitly agreed upon in the marriage contract. That's not to say that a wife is not highly encouraged to help with family expenses if the need arises/she is able/is well-off, and she will be rewarded for it, inshaa'Allah. For years after she died, the Prophet (S) continually praised Khadijah for helping him when he needed it most with her wealth, property, etc. But trying to uphold a certain lifestyle and coercing one's wife to work in some situations is another matter. Allahu A'lim. Bottom line: ask a trusted, knowledgeable scholar for your particular situation. Fatwas usually pertain to particular situations and cannot always be applied broadly. May Allah help us realize our duties to Him and to others, and rectify our affairs, aameen. 2) The issue of a mortgage. There are many Muslims who are/have struggled with this, particularly where interest is involved. Bottom line: ask a trusted, knowledgeable scholar for your particular situation. We can't always use our own logic to come up with the best approach, if we are trying to follow Islaamic guidelines. However, opinions are another issue, and to each his own. May Allah increase us in eemaan, 'ilm and steadfastness. Aameen.
NS

Re: Marital duties in Islam
a_Silver_Rose
04/30/03 at 21:55:30
[slm] Jazak Allahu Kair Sister Sofia.  :) Brother Arshad (Bhaloo) (May Allah (Swt) reward him) sent me this: Question: I was married 8 months ago to my husband. I respect him and love him dearly. I have never disobeyed him. Before we got married he gave me the option that I could go out to work if I wanted to. Now we are married he thinks that I should be earning money. I do not want to and we do not need the money as he is earning enogh for us. I do not believe that money is the answer to everything. Please help me. How should I deal with the situation? Must I obey him and go out to work? We live in the Western world and my job would involve contact with the public. Answer: Praise be to Allaah.   We put the following question to Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen: If a womans husband tells her to get a job outside the home so that she can earn money, does she have to obey him? He (may Allaah preserve him) answered as follows: She does not have to, because he is obliged to spend on her, and she is not obliged to spend on herself. How, then, if this work involves something haraam, namely mixing with men? She should not obey him with regard to this, because there is no obedience to any created being if it involves disobedience towards the Creator. Remind him that he is the man and is your protector and maintainer (qawwaam) because he spends on you from his means. It is not right for him to let greed for worldly things and the desire for more money make him ask his wife to do work which she is not obliged to do according to shareeah, or to expose her to fitnah (temptation) for the sake of the transient conveniences of this world. We ask Allaah to guide him. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.   Source: Islam-qa.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [color=Red]Some Useful Info on Family Finances, insh'Allah[/color] [color=Green]Steps to Creating a Personal Budget http://www.soundvision.com/Info/life/pfplan.asp A Sample Budget for a Muslim Family http://www.soundvision.com/Info/life/fbudget.asp Some Tips on How You can Save Money http://www.soundvision.com/Info/life/save.asp 18 Tips to Simplify Our Spending http://www.soundvision.com/Info/life/18.asp A Muslim Perspective on Credit http://www.soundvision.com/Info/life/credit.asp[/color] [color=Green]The Quran and Hadith about Money Matters http://www.soundvision.com/Info/life/qandh.asp[/color]
05/03/03 at 22:12:31
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marital duties in Islam
Jenin1974
05/02/03 at 15:32:39
[slm] I wanted to thank everyone who posted. I havent' been able to come back on and check the site due to my hectic schedule at work...and of course at home :) Everything said was very interesting and provided me with a lot of knowledge and it is comforting to know that there are some sisters(and brothers) who understand my situation I did work things out for now inshallah....I explained to my husband (and believe me I do talk to him with respect and do not raise my voice, that only makes me look like a fool) that I do in fact help by paying my expenses, in total I also spend approx. $600 monthly , isnt' that 600 i am saving him? I also did manage to provide him with some of the information provided by you all. Jazzakum Allah Khair..... :)

Re: Marital duties in Islam
a_Silver_Rose
05/04/03 at 16:28:39
[slm] [quote]that I do in fact help by paying my expenses, in total I also spend approx. $600 monthly , isnt' that 600 i am saving him? [/quote] DEfinately. Well since another topic had come into being from your topic :), it was moved and Dude had written to you saying: Great to hear things worked out! and I wrote:Good jenin very happy for you. Alhumdlilah. May Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`ala) keep you always happy. Ameen I also want to add that I hope that your husband knowing this now may change his mind about you working 50/50 (if he hasnt already) and that everything works out gr8 and for the best, insh'Allah

Re: Marital duties in Islam
bhaloo
05/05/03 at 00:18:36
[slm] I moved some of the posts, and as Silver Rose pointed out some of the posts got out of order.  ACK!  Insha'Allah it'll go smoother next time. Splitting is fun though, hehehehe.  :)
05/05/03 at 00:19:09
bhaloo
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