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| [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus |
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| jannah |
| 04/25/03 at 02:57:16 |
| [slm] [i] Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus: A Practical Guide for Improving Communication and Getting What You Want in Your Relationship[/i] Ok so ever wonder why this book has been so popular, has spawned half a dozen other books, websites devoted to the book, clubs and audiotapes!! It's because it's actually pretty good. The premise of the book is that men and women are very different and in order to have successful relationships (marriage) they need to accept this and learn to work around/with each others ways of doing things. I'll definitely say I read this book with a skeptical mind because all those 'men are like this women are like this' stuff just seemed stereotypical or might be true for some, but not for others to me. But I think I gained alot of insight from the book on how men think and behave. And how also we as women naturally or by training behave. I'm actually astonished at some things that actually make sense now, that I never could figure out before.. like a key just fell into place ;) Like for example that women tend to give 1 point for every thing nice a man does.. like gives her a gift, brings her flowers, bring home a paycheck.. so that's 3 points... but for a man... bringing home the paycheck is like 50 points so he doesn't understand why a woman still feels dissappointed when she doesn't get regular little things because those things are just as important to her!! There's a list of 101 ways to score points with a woman and maan all these things are so beautiful.. If a guy actually did them what woman wouldn't be in heaven.. I plan to photocopy this and put it on my fridge. :) There's also the list of how to win points with a man which is eye opening.. wonder if it's true :o Also it talks about how sometimes women say things that are meant to be complementary and loving to help him but to him it sounds like criticism. It also gives some good tips on how to avoid arguments.. whenever they start the couple should take a time out and come back with a discussion on the pros and cons on the issue of what the fight was originally about. I really feel like I learned alot that I wish I had understood in my MSA days with working with brothers!! For example, we should avoid saying 'Brother Can you put up these fliers?' because to them it's critical and demeaning. Instead we should say "Brother, Would you put up these fliers? <pregnant pause>" There are of course a lot of overgeneralizations and stereotypes and some things that would make anyone raise an eyebrow, but in the end it helps us think about our relationships and ways to improve our communication. But I'm curious to know if the things the book discusses actually is true or works in a real marriage. Anyone read this before marriage? or finds it true after? Someone really needs to write some practical marriage advice like this from an Islamic point of view. [i]Tranquil Hearts[/i] is the closest Islamic marriage book I've seen to it ... but we could definitely use something more specific!! In the meantime I give this book a thumbs up [] ------------------- Here's an excerpt Scoring with the Opposite Sex For a woman, little things matter; consideration, nurturing and appreciation will go a long way to keeping a woman feeling fulfilled. Whereas a man scores points for various responses and experiences, a woman wants regular attention from her man. 26 Ways to Score with a woman Upon returning home find her first before doing anything else and give her a hug. Ask her specific questions about her day that indicate an awareness of what she was planning to do (e.g. 'How did your appointment with the doctor go?') Practice listening and asking questions. Resist the temptation to solve her problems; empathize instead. Give her 20 minutes of unsolicited, quality attention (don't read the newspaper or be distracted by anything else at this time.) Bring her cut flowers as a surprise as well as on special occasions. Plan a date several days in advance, rather than waiting for Friday night and asking her what she wants to do. If she generally makes dinner or if it is her turn and she seems tired or busy, offer to make dinner. Compliment her on how she looks. When you are going to be late, call and let her know. Schedule extra time when travelling so that she doesn't have to rush. Create occasions when you can both dress up. Pay more attention to her than others in public. Make a point of cuddling or being affectionate without it being sexual. Surprise her with a love note or poem. Get ready to go to sleep together and get in bed at the same time. When listening to her talk, use eye contact. Give her four hugs a day. Wash her car. Whenever you need to pull away, let her know you will be back or that you need some time to think about things. When going out ask if there is anything she wants you to pick up at the shops, and remember to pick it up. Don't flick the remote control to different channels when she is watching TV. If she is tired offer to make her some tea. Tell her 'I love you' at least a couple of times a day. Ask her to add her thoughts to this list. Leave the bathroom seat down. This list is taken from a larger list of 101 Ways to Score Points with a Woman from the book but in reality the list is endless. If you are considerate and respectful of her and you show her that... you always score points. However scoring points with your man is slightly different; a woman needs to be supportive of her man when he needs it and if she doesn't criticize him when he makes mistakes or disappoints her; just watch the points stack up in her favour - check this out: How women can score big with men He makes a mistake and she doesn't say 'I told you so' or offer advice. 10-20 He disappoints her and she doesn't punish him. 10-20 He gets lost while driving and she doesn't make a big deal out of it. 10-20 He gets lost and she sees the good in the situation and says: 'We would never have seen this beautiful sunset if we had taken the most direct route.' 20-30 He forgets to pick up something and she says 'It's OK. Would you do it next time you are out?' 10-20 He forgets to pick up something again and she says with trusting patience and persistence 'It's OK. Would you still get it?' 20-30 When she has hurt him and she understands his hurt, she apologizes and gives him the love he needs. 10-40 She asks for his support and he says no and she is not hurt by his rejection but trusts that he would if he could. She does not reject him or disapprove of him. 10-20 Another time she asks for his support and he again says no. She does not make him feel wrong but accepts his limitations at the same time. 20-30 She asks for his support without being demanding when he assumes the score is somewhat even. 1-5 She asks for support without being demanding when she is upset or he knows she has been giving more. 10-30 When he withdraws she doesn?t make him feel guilty. 10-20 When he comes back from his cave she welcomes him and doesn?t punish him or reject him. 10-20 When he apologizes for a mistake and she receives it with loving acceptance and forgiveness. The bigger the mistake he makes the more points he gives. 10-50 When he asks her to do something and she says no without giving a list of reasons why she can't do it. 1-10 When he asks her to do something and she says yes and stays in a good mood. 1-10 When he wants to make up after a fight and starts doing little things for her and she starts appreciating him again. 10-30 She is happy to see him when he gets home. 10-20 She feels disapproving and instead of expressing it she goes in another room and privately centres herself and then comes back with a more centred and loving heart. 10-20 On special occasions she overlooks his mistakes that might normally upset her. 20-40 She really enjoys having sex with him. 10-40 He forgets where he put his keys and she doesn?t look at him as though he he was irresponsible. 10-20 She is tactful or graceful in expressing her dislike or disappointment about a restaurant or movie when on a date. 10-20 She doesn't give advice when he is driving or parking the car and then appreciates him for getting them there. 10-20 She asks for his support rather than dwelling on what he has done wrong. 10-20 She shares her negative feelings in a centred way without blaming, rejecting or being disapproving of him. 10-40 |
| 04/25/03 at 03:24:44 |
| jannah |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| Barr |
| 04/26/03 at 00:27:20 |
| Assalamu'alaikum :) I got the book in July 2000, and only stopped reading it halfway. I feel like picking up the book again :) [quote]Someone really needs to write some practical marriage advice like this from an Islamic point of view. Tranquil Hearts is the closest Islamic marriage book I've seen to it ... but we could definitely use something more specific!! [/quote] InshaAllah, something's gonna come up soon. But it won't be in time, when I'll be with y'all. Will keep U posted, inshaALlah. I reckon, if we do want to produce books with the likes of John Gray's, John Gottman's et al, I think there must be some of us who specialise in marriage and family. Do research and gain insights from the Qur'an & Sunnah. But for now, its like we gotta settle being consumers. That's not bad per se, but I feel, we have not really tapped the resources that we already have. Personally, there still need to be improvements in Tranquil Hearts, its not as practical as Gottman's or Gray's marriage books and courses. But then again, the book was written to give an introductory on marriage in Islam, particularly, marriage between Muslim converts and Singaporean Muslims. And U're right...A lot of the islamically inclined marriage books are concentrated on the fiqh aspect, instead of the social and practical ones. Allahua'lam |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| Barr |
| 04/26/03 at 00:50:35 |
| Oh yeah.. forgot to mention this.. [quote] really feel like I learned alot that I wish I had understood in my MSA days with working with brothers!! For example, we should avoid saying 'Brother Can you put up these fliers?' because to them it's critical and demeaning. Instead we should say "Brother, Would you put up these fliers? <pregnant pause>" [/quote] Oh...I've got big bad experience on that one... I practically got excommunicated with this bro. And I thought I asked politely :( But I found out, he's going through a rough patch later on... but until now, he still excommunicates me. I dunno why. :( Anywho... U might wanna try this ;) Akhi, I know U're kinda busy...if its not too much trouble.. do U think U'd be able to help out with chopping the wood, churning the butter and baking the bread? I think we need some manly strength to help us oh... so weak creatures. I don't want to trouble u, but we really need some help.[img]http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons/08.gif[/img] Sure, my dainty, sister! I don't do good breads... but I'll definitely help U with the wood and butter. 8) *sigh* my man! :-* |
| 04/26/03 at 00:52:49 |
| Barr |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| BroHanif |
| 04/26/03 at 18:11:39 |
| Salaams, I've read this book and it sometimes feel like its a pipe dream to what this author is on about, most of it is common sense I'm sorry to say. Also ,there are differences in Muslim marriges and those marriges that are not based on Islaam. That needs to be addressed first to why our marriges are different and have a special touch to them. I've read some of the authors other books about bringking up kids and some of the stuff in there is at times weird if not slightly going against the Sunnah. Above all until you don't get married you can't put many of the things in this book to practice, I mean do you really think that on your dawah group some bros are gonna present you flowers? or write a poem If so whats their intention? Salaams Hanif |
| NS |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/27/03 at 03:54:22 |
| Salam Alaikum! [quote]Akhi, I know U're kinda busy...if its not too much trouble.. do U think U'd be able to help out with chopping the wood, churning the butter and baking the bread? I think we need some manly strength to help us oh... so weak creatures. I don't want to trouble u, but we really need some help.[/quote] I guess that is asking so many things in one breath ... you either have to combine it into one work or plead as many times to get it done ;) It's like serial processing. so weak creatures => That's taken for granted or else you wont approach ur manly brothaa. It only weakens ur case by saying the obvious. Also, if the guy is really of thin built he might take it as a comment on him. Men r lil insecure. |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| Tesseract |
| 04/27/03 at 10:43:45 |
| Wa'alaikum Assalam wa rahmatullah, I heard so much about this book, but after reading the excerpt posted, it sounds even more interesting. Some of the advice given was already on my plan to do, but as bro. Hanif said its mostly common sense, I wouldn't disagree with him. [quote]Upon returning home find her first before doing anything else and give her a hug. [/quote] I do that with my mom when she is around. I just can't do anything else until I see her, hug/kiss her and ask her how her day was, and she does the same in return. Hopefully, I'll do that with my wife too. [quote]If she is tired offer to make her some tea. [/quote] That's doable, but... [quote]Wash her car.[/quote] That's asking for too much. My theory is, what the wife can do, she should do, what she can't/is difficult for her, ofcourse husband should do, like changing a flat tire. My brother washes his cars, but his wife helps him in that. I like it that way, sharing most of the tasks. That just gives each other a feeling that u are interested in him/her. But, anyways, we have free car wash opportunities here in Austin every now and then, the students do that on campus. Maybe I can take her for a long drive and get car wash done and then drive back :P. Wassalam. |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| Ruqayyah |
| 04/27/03 at 17:20:18 |
| [slm] [quote]wash her car[/quote] I think washing the car is one of those things that falls under the category of "really thoughtful things to do for your spouse." It's not that she can't do it, but it would be nice to come home and find that your spouse did that for you. kinda like if you came home and found that your wife had made you a cheesecake (yumm ;D) I think it would especially be nice because, i can just imagine myself trying to wash a car, and trying to soap and wash the car and my hijab dipping into the bucket of water or getting soap all over myself. but i have done it before, so it is doable. I did start reading this book a while ago, but for whatever reason never finished it. Yes a lot of it is common sense, but sadly it isn't common sense for a lot of people out there. and sometimes i think reading about a situation that has happened to you in a book and then seeing ways you could have handled it better is really helpful. Helps to see things more objectively. [wlm] ruqayyah p.s. what does bulwark mean? |
| 04/27/03 at 17:23:14 |
| Ruqayyah |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 04/28/03 at 01:38:25 |
| [slm] Umm, why in the world does the woman need to have her own car to begin with?! I mean, aren't we gonna be good citizens and have concern about the safety of our neighbors and fellow countrymen?! Just kidding :P I give the book two thumbs up. Every man and woman thinking about getting married (or newly weds, or heck even married people) should read it. Alot of things may seem common sense to you, but you'd be surprised how frequently you would make the very blunders that this book warns you from. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah. |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| Asim |
| 04/28/03 at 03:43:37 |
| Assalaamu alaikum, sigh, here I am again replying to a gender relation/marriage thread... gotta work on my priorities inshaAllah. But you see, I didn't want to miss this opportunity to post in my forum, where typically I have nothing to say :) Some lil comments... 1. about it being common sense... well, it should be common sense *if* we take the time to reflect. Unfortunately, we tend not to, and prefer lists like these to make us say "aha, I knew that was true!" (btw, aren't we becoming the generation of lists??). Anyway, it is still a useful book for all relevant ppl to read. (hmm, I haven't read it yet... anyone willing to lend me a copy??) 2. There is a strong correlation between the lists for men and women. If a husband does the 'little' things, it is more likely his wife would do the things in the other list. Or, if the wife does not appreciate much, then the guy won't do the 'little' things as well. I have seen this first-hand in a couple I know. The guy was a macho type of person who wasn't into the small gestures, etc. After marriage, however, he made an effort to develop his 'softer' side. His wife wasn't appreciative much (like on given a gift "ewww, I don't like that color" or "huh, I already have a similar ring"), so he basically quit trying. Hmm, did anyone notice that the list for men is more about doing the 'little' things, and that for women is about not complaining too much? 3. The two lists generally follow the advice given by rasulallah [saw] to men and women. E.g. the best among you is one who is gentlest to his wife/family, obey your hsuband if he provides for you, etc. There is always encouragement in such advice because it is a jihad to do what sometimes our natures do not support. And Allah knows best. [quote] I mean, aren't we gonna be good citizens and have concern about the safety of our neighbors and fellow countrymen?![/quote] ... and concern for our husbands... :) Wasalaam. |
| 04/30/03 at 05:58:13 |
| Asim |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| jannah |
| 04/29/03 at 07:29:56 |
| [wlm] Is it so hard to go through a car wash?? btw they should add taking her car to get an oil change.. now that is what i call helpful... barr ur hillarious.. the problem is if you ask that nice to an msa bro he would definitely get suspicious!! who's john gottman?? i have to agree with Asim's comments.. ever hear that saying 'common sense is not so common'... and it's not just about common sense i think.. it's about not letting us fall into destructive patterns of behavior... "If a husbad does the 'little' things, it is more likely his wife won't do the things in the other list.".. didn't understand that.. did you mean does NOT do the little things? btw Asim so when's your Men are from Safa, Women are from Marwa book coming out? :) AbuHamza the worldwide sisters network has 2 black marks against you now...keep going bro.. maybe you can break the worldwide record... |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| Asim |
| 04/30/03 at 05:53:42 |
| Assalaamu alaikum, [quote]"If a husbad does the 'little' things, it is more likely his wife won't do the things in the other list.".. didn't understand that.. did you mean does NOT do the little things? [/quote] Yes, you are right, my mistake. [quote]btw Asim so when's your Men are from Safa, Women are from Marwa book coming out? [/quote] When someone gives me a multimillion dollar contract :) but seriously, I would like to write such books some day, inshaAllah... Wasalaam. |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| eleanor |
| 04/30/03 at 08:18:57 |
| [quote author=jannah link=board=kabob;num=1051250236;start=0#0 date=04/25/03 at 02:57:16] Upon returning home find her first before doing anything else and give her a hug. Ask her specific questions about her day that indicate an awareness of what she was planning to do (e.g. 'How did your appointment with the doctor go?') [/quote] okay my husband does these but I wish he would learn to do this: [quote] Resist the temptation to solve her problems; empathize instead. [/quote] That is a real problem!!!!!! And then as one brother said: [quote]My theory is, what the wife can do, she should do, what she can't/is difficult for her, ofcourse husband should do, like changing a flat tire. [/quote] are you living inside my husband's head?? This is his theory too. (must be a Pakistani thing). the only problem is that I can do practically anything my husband can and some more. I can change flats etc Okay he is good at electricity stuff and DIY so he does all of that. I remember once someone posted an article about how there are five different ways of expressing love and how different people interpret love as being different things. If someone (se7en) could find that thread it would be great, or if the original poster owns up it might be faster.... |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| Barr |
| 05/04/03 at 11:41:37 |
| Salam :) [quote]barr ur hillarious.. the problem is if you ask that nice to an msa bro he would definitely get suspicious!![/quote] Hmmm, sis... I was speaking in codes. 8) After going through the Barr decoder, here r the points: 1) don't ruffle feathers... if you do 2) calm ruffled feathers 3) be humble in the way U speak, say sorry even if its not your fault 4) make them feel important, needed and wanted by the way U ask them 5) ask the right questions, and you'll win their heart ;) 6) then, you'll get the answer U want. inshaAllah! OK, so I got this after learning how to handle difficult partcipants in a camp... :P I've got another tip on how to make a man say "yes". But hmmmmm... should I reveal all? ;D As for John Gottman.. I'm reading his "7 principles in making marriages work", which is another book, that I strongly recommend. Maliha may want to do a reveiw on it, since she bought it too.. plus, its more relevant for her *ahem* ;D About Gottman... check him out here=> http://www.gottman.com/ [i]John Gottman is world renowned for his work on marital stability and divorce prediction, involving the study of emotions, physiology, and communication. His breakthrough research on marriage and parenting has earned him numerous major awards. [/i] ~Try @ your own Risk~ Wassalam :) |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| Tesseract |
| 05/04/03 at 18:23:52 |
| Assalamu 'alaikum, [quote]Is it so hard to go through a car wash?? btw they should add taking her car to get an oil change.. now that is what i call helpful... [/quote] For oil change, u just have to go to the nearest car service station, hand over keys to them and wait for probably 30-60 minutes max. (if u don't change ur oil at home ofcourse), so I don't see anything helpful in changing oil for ur spouse except that it would save ur time. Now, if my wife had to go to a halaqah or cook or clean house or in short, do anything important and she was short on time, I'd be more than happy to go and get the oil change done for her. But, other than that, I don't see anything helpful. [quote]are you living inside my husband's head?? This is his theory too. (must be a Pakistani thing). [/quote] errr........I thought that was the 'commonest' sense thing :P [quote]the only problem is that I can do practically anything my husband can and some more. I can change flats etc [/quote] :o :o :o Eleanor, I am impressed. It was my dream to see one woman ( a housewife) on this earth who could change a flat tyre and BE PROUD OF IT (Now, I hope, that's what u meant that u ARE proud of being so practical and as equally capable of doing things as ur husband). But, please, don't get me wrong here. I don't mean that women SHOULD change a flat tyre, but knowing how to do it and be able to do it once in a while is something I think women should do. Doesn't hurt the womanhood, does it? :P Wassalam. |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| jannah |
| 05/05/03 at 03:48:08 |
| [quote author=Bulwark of Islam link=board=kabob;num=1051250236;start=0#13 date=05/04/03 at 18:23:52]Assalamu 'alaikum, For oil change, u just have to go to the nearest car service station, hand over keys to them and wait for probably 30-60 minutes max. (if u don't change ur oil at home ofcourse), so I don't see anything helpful in changing oil for ur spouse except that it would save ur time. Now, if my wife had to go to a halaqah or cook or clean house or in short, do anything important and she was short on time, I'd be more than happy to go and get the oil change done for her. But, other than that, I don't see anything helpful. [/quote] [wlm] sigh.. ok i don't know about the service stations y'all go to down there in texas ;) but the one's up here are mostly men dominated.. and they are mostly rip off artists telling you that you need this or that.. or they HAVE to fix something right now or else, very intimidating for women.. i'm kinda scared to go into that environment without at least my brothah... so it would be NICE if my non-existant husband would do it for me.. :D you know maybe in a marriage the spouse should tell each other what they think a 'nice deed' is cause it seems like there are big differences sometimes.. like to a woman spontaneously bringing home flowers is really nice.. for a guy... cooking his favorite dessert?? |
| 05/05/03 at 03:51:09 |
| jannah |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| eleanor |
| 05/05/03 at 08:12:07 |
| [slm] proud of being able to change a flat tyre? Come again... ??? Let me tell you something - it's not that difficult. None of that masculine stuff is difficult. That's why women are so good at directing men when they are trying to do anything DIYish. It's not that good at all because if i need a flat changed (or as happens twice a year all the tyres) then my husband can say "but you know how to do that yourself". It's not about showing the woman that you can do these things, it's about saying "okay, i'll do it this time.." Or not...? |
| Re: [Review] Men are from Mars, Women are from Ven |
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| Tesseract |
| 05/07/03 at 13:10:45 |
| Assalamu 'alaikum, [quote]sigh.. ok i don't know about the service stations y'all go to down there in texas but the one's up here are mostly men dominated.. and they are mostly rip off artists telling you that you need this or that.. or they HAVE to fix something right now or else, very intimidating for women.. i'm kinda scared to go into that environment without at least my brothah... [/quote] (uh huh! such a loser I am!). That never crossed my mind, although its the same situation even here in Texas if u go to car service stations, that they are rip off artists and they have to fix something right then etc. Its kinda their business policy. But, anyways, it all makes sense. JazaakiAllah khair for bringing that up. Wassalam. |
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