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Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Muslims

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Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Muslims
jannah
05/01/03 at 02:57:31
[slm]

Thought this was kind of harsh even though I agreed with many of the points...plus I think it's not really just 'converts' that have these frustrations.. it's any Muslim that's trying to bring people back to Islam....  thought I'd ask the reverts though what they thought of it? Agree or disagree, etc ???

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Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Muslims


"Why should I try to convert my non-Muslim friends when I often prefer them to the Muslims that I know? How will being Muslim change their lives for the better if they already display more of the Islamic virtues than most of the Muslims they are likely to meet?"

By British convert to Islam, Michael A. Malik.

There was a white face in the mosque. You don't see very many, so I went over and asked if he was a Muslim, "I used to be, but not any more." he said, "I thought Islam was wonderful, but I couldn't stand the Muslims". What could I say except "I know how you feel";. Most converts do.

Of course one meets some special individuals in encounters with the ummah, but how is it possible that in the Muslim world they seem so few and far between? Does my being a cultural alien mean that I am inherently less capable of understanding Islam, or is it just that I don't understand my fellow Muslims? Why is it that a trip to the mosque so often leaves me closer to despair than hope? Why do I so rarely feel enlightened and uplifted after conversation with my fellow Muslims, yet so often offended by their behaviour, frustrated by their mindless approach to truth, and enraged by the inadequacy of the Islam they expect me to accept? How often I have felt like giving it all up.

Fortunately I was a Muslim for four years before going to the Muslim world and meeting those who feel that Islam belongs to them by birthright, so I early on formed a relationship with God which served to armour me against the ummah. The first time I went into a mosque in a Muslim country, the first thing to happen was that someone tried to throw me out. Now they weren't to know that I was a Muslim but they didn't even ask. When I told them, in fact, the first thing they did ask was "Sunni or Shi'a?", so if I'd picked the wrong one they would probably have thrown me out anyway. I thoroughly confused them when I said I didn't care, however, and eventually they let me stop and pray.

First impressions last a long time, they say, but many years after having learned by experience the best way to get in, pray, and get out without harassment, it still seems that in a strange mosque a strange face is more likely to be greeted with hostility than welcome.
The man in the editor's office was obviously a Muslim, so the brusque arrogance of his manner should not have come as a surprise. It did little, however, to incline me towards composing a careful answer, too much effort was required to remain courteous, and it seemed more like a challenge than a question. "And how many of your people have you converted?" he said, but I suspect the answer was more complex than he really wanted to hear.

"Converted to what?" is the first response. Islam presumably, yet here we have a huge assumption that we both agree on what that is. Why should I try to convert my non-Muslim friends when I often prefer them to the Muslims that I know? How will being Muslim change their lives for the better if they already display more of the Islamic virtues than most of the Muslims they are likely to meet? I share what I have found when they show Interest, but like me they often look at the Muslim world and wonder what we have in common. They find it hard to see living examples of the principles of which I speak.

I came to Islam through a search for Truth, but I found that in practice most Muslims give the truth a very low priority, and I can still be shocked by their facility for saying whatever they think suits the conversation best. Along with truth goes trustworthiness, surely an Islamic virtue, yet travelling through the Muslim world I met Muslims eager to sit down and discuss breaking an agreement not two minutes after sealing it with a pious recitation of Al Fatiha [first chapter of the Quran]. And closer to home how distasteful it is to belong to a community so notorious with regard to paying bills.

How about Mercy and Compassion - those words now repeatedly on my Muslim lips. In three years of travelling through the Muslim world, hardly a day passed without some stranger feeling he ought to instruct me in the principles of Islam. In all that time, in all these casual encounters, not only was mercy never given pride of place, but I actually don't recall it ever having been given a place at all. It is not necessary for my friends to look to the Muslim heartlands, when at home the Muslim example can be confused with "My Beautiful Launderette".

But they see the Muslim heartlands every evening an TV, with their dictators and demagogues thick on the ground, oppressive and unjust societies, poverty and ignorance. There is no point in telling friends that Islam is a complete way of life. That it is a way to achieve joy and fulfillment in this life, hope and trust when approaching the next, and the perfect basis for a tolerant and peaceful society for all humanity. What can I answer when someone says "Show me!" - "Point to a Muslim country you can use as an example."

My Islam sees in the prophet endless examples of forgiveness and tolerance, yet my friends see the mindless enforcement of rigid laws and eccentric punishments. I sometimes explain, but could just as well tell tales of Shari'a court corruption and injustice. My Islam insists on individual freedom, there is no compulsion, no priests are needed, and except for piety all men are equal. I kneel before no man, though I will kneel in prayer beside any, and my wealth and privilege is permitted, though charity is to be preferred, and the prophet chose to die a pauper.

My friends can understand and be drawn to such principles, but unless they can see this utopia in a more tangible form than my theories they are surely destined to remain cynical about their possible fulfillment. As long as I can't show them examples of Muslims living in a way they consider preferable to their own, I won't worry too much about their conversion. They see my Islam as a pipe dream, and who knows, perhaps they are right. The task is of course even harder when the friends concerned are women, as the clichéd platitudes of Islamic freedom and equality mean nothing when such highly visible inequities and oppression are impossible to hide.

Since I came back to this country there has been much talk in the Muslim community about an "identity crisis". But the business successes of their family networks show that Muslims have no problem in identifying themselves with other Muslims, they just have trouble in identifying themselves with anything recognisable as Islam. In fact it seems that most Muslims would rather have as little to do with Islam as possible from the moment they are old enough to avoid it.

"Brother, let me tell you the most important thing in Islam", said the stranger who had cornered me in a Lahore coffee bar. Far from agog, I waited to hear what it might be, though experience had taught me that it was unlikely to include any of the five pillars, truth or tolerance, or the like. "The most important thing in Islam" he said "is that your wife covers her head", a view of Islam which I had heard often from many Muslim men. In other words the most important thing in the practice of Islam is to get your wife to do it, or your children, or your grandfather, or anybody but yourself!

Back in Britain I listened to the Muslim wails. "We are losing our children! By the time they leave school they are strangers, lost to us and to Islam! What can we do?" My usual response was often faced with dismay - "I can say what I think you should do, but it's unlikely that you will do it, because it involves changing yourselves. It involves changing the way you understand your Islam". This is not suggesting wholesale innovation, as it might seem to imply, but quite the reverse. "It is necessary to revive that Muslim community which is buried under the debris of the manmade traditions of several generations, and which is crushed under the weight of those false laws and customs which are not remotely related to Islamic teachings, and which, in spite of all this, calls itself the 'world of Islam'" (Qutb - Milestones). It's time to get back to the real thing - and I don't mean coca cola.

As I waited to begin my talk to the gathering of young Muslims I engaged in conversation with the group. A nice, quiet, attentive, well-mannered lot I thought. Then time to begin, but the mike wasn't working, and they waited "Testing! Testing! 123..." for while. Rather than just read numbers, it seemed more appropriate to read some Qur'an - after all, I was going to be talking about prayer. To my amazement, the first words of Fatihah seemed to fall in the room like a grenade, turning the group into a rabble. Punches flew, people rolled on the floor, conversations were attempted back and forth across the room, and Fatihah was generally taken as Time Out. If these were the ones at a Muslim conference, what on earth would the Muslim youth who weren't there have been like?
Now it's not that I'm a one for excessive displays of reverence, I see my religion more in a practical kind of way, but this was , which the Prophet called the best of the chapters of the Qur'an, and which Al-Ghazali called the key to Paradise. These words are not recited in every Rakat of prayer without good reason. The outward displays of reverence, such as venerating a Qur'an, placing it high up and wrapped away, cannot do justice to the awe and wonder this Surah deserves. But if a Muslim does not have a reason for this reverence which satisfies his understanding, the outward displays become hollow and easy to discard.

At the exhibition, the school kids of all ages were milling around looking at the World of Islam. As they tried to find the answers for their question sheets it was clear that Muslim kids knew little more than all the rest. No wonder our young people are losing their Islam. They have received so little to start off with. From out of the crowd around the Qur'an, one boy said to the teacher "I can read that!", and proceeded to do so - more fluently than I could have done myself. The teacher was obviously highly impressed, but then asked the obvious question, "What does it mean?", and the boys satisfaction turned to wry embarrassment. "I don't know", he shrugged, and that was the end of that.

Now our young people are not stupid. Muslims have a better academic record than most groupings, as a glance at the honours board of your local school will show. The teacher's response was a common sense question, one that anyone might have expected in the situation. The embarrassment came from the common sense questions that remained unspoken, "Then why did you learn it?", "What use is it to you?", "Is this a skill without a purpose?" The teacher implicitly understood that these are questions you do not ask, and neither it seems do Muslims. It is as though Muslims are afraid that Islam can't stand up to common sense questions, yet Fatihah alone can satisfy whatever intellectual demands are put upon it and still remain inexhaustible. Are we passing on the key to the door of paradise, and forgetting to explain how you use it to open the lock.

If young Muslims are not shown the full richness of Islamic knowledge, we must not be surprised if they show more interest in fields where there seems further to explore. It will take some time before mosques are again centres of learning in all its aspects, places of research, experimentation and debate concerning our understanding of God and Creation. But when western educated young Muslim adults begin to search for their spiritual roots, God willing, they will uncover the means of reinvigorating the ummah, and leading them in the example of the Companions. If our Islam is not like theirs, filled with a sense of awe, wonder and excitement, can we really be doing justice to the service of Allah.

In such a situation, we will find new Muslims drawn towards the mosque. At the moment, amidst the ummah they are more likely to find Islam expressed as a cultural adjunct, where even the five pillars are avoided. But if the pillars are treated as unnecessary then what is needed to be Muslim, and if they are necessary how many Muslims are there in the ummah?

This goes to the heart of the conversation question, as we need to know what is essential for a person to be considered Muslim. Do Muslims in fact expect more from a convert than they do from those born in their cultures? How little does a westerner have to do before Muslims accept him as Muslim, and how far can he stray from their cultural norm before they consider him a disturbing intrusion and would rather that he stayed away? Is the reason there are not more converts because they would disturb the status quo?
But our effect on our surrounding society is a mirror to our behaviour and how well we represent Islam. We must live in a way that seems preferable and then at least partially satisfy the expectations of the inquisitive. Once upon a time, Islam spread like wildfire. In a few short years the Message spread to Morocco and to China. Millions welcomed the good news, and quickly shaped their lives around it.

Now Islam may be fast growing in the third world regions, but here in the West Muslims face a peculiar reaction to their invitations to join them in their faith, as almost nobody wants anything to do with it. If the message we are passing on no longer seems to have the same effect, is it not time to consider if we just have a communications problem, or whether we ourselves are abusing the message? Fortunately we still have the original - all we have to do is understand it!
05/01/03 at 03:00:30
jannah
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
gift
05/01/03 at 05:18:57
[slm]

wow  :o there is so much pain in this article :'(.  I think those of us who are born into Muslim families don't realise how converts/reverts face such a difficult task in trying to integrate into the Muslim community :(.  Many of us really begin trying to implement our Islam when we reach our teenage years, perhaps then we understand a small part of what our new Muslim brothers and sisters go through.

The article says:
[color=black]How little does a westerner have to do before Muslims accept him as Muslim, and how far can he stray from their cultural norm before they consider him a disturbing intrusion and would rather that he stayed away? Is the reason there are not more converts because they would disturb the status quo? [/color]

It is not only converts/reverts who face this problem, sometimes when one is trying to act in the true 'Islamic' way as opposed to the cultural norms one is used to, he/she is similarly viewed as a 'disturbing intrusion' as the brother puts it.  Perhaps this feeling is accentuated among communities where the presence of western converts/reverts acts as a wake up call to 'born Muslims' to make us realise how much we take our Islam for granted. Especially when we see such inspiring men and women who struggle towards the truth which Allah 'azza wa jall has guided them to. 8) Perhaps those who will not consciously acknowledge the wake up call feel disgruntled and guilty - but they don't always know why - hence the negative attitude towards new Muslims ??? Perhaps it is arrogance ??? Only Allah knows best.  Whatever the reason reading articles such as these, and hearing similar feelings expressed by other converts/reverts makes me angry, confused and sad.  How can we hurt each other so much when we are all part of one umma under Islam   ??? >:(:'(

May Allah 'azza wa jall give us the ability to combat some of these evils that have developed in our communities, and protect us from the fitna (trials/tribulations) of the Shaytaan and his followers.

[wlm]
05/01/03 at 10:00:18
gift
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Kathy
05/01/03 at 08:15:38
[slm]
Simply stated.... Most of my revert friends and i would agree with 95% of this.
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
UmmWafi
05/01/03 at 13:00:23
[slm] all,

All these talk about how Muslims present a negative image of ourselves remind me of one very important thing.  That I am so very blessed to be a Muslim.

I have a sweet letter written to me by sis Ellie, a wonderful card and a sweet picture of Ali and also his mosque lego model from sis Kathy, a wonderful wonderful rainbow in my sky aka a phonecall from my beloved sis Maliha, the love and friendship of my lil sis Barr, the care and concern of each brothers and sisters on this board.  When I post my anxieties and worries, I can FEEL the support and love sent by my family on this board.

Muslims aint that bad after all :)

PS Maliha, thank you so very much for that phonecall.  It was so extremely wonderful to hear from you (altho u said I speak weird  ;D ).  If you would just im me your phone number we can chat again soon :)  Love you lots and lots :)  Hugs.

Wassalam
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Rameeza
05/01/03 at 13:10:35
[slm]
I am not a revert but am struggling to become a better muslim after being pretty wild most of my life. I almost feel like a revert sometimes since I have so much to learn due to the neglect of my faith at my hands for all these years. Insha Allah, I will be guided well and will meet with success.

I have been surrounded by non-muslim friends for so long that I have to agree in some ways with the article regarding non-muslims. My non-muslim friends are so open minded about my faith and what I am doing. Yet amongst muslims I fear to be open. Even whilst seeking knowledge you have to be careful when asking questions from many muslims. I have met a few open minded scholars who are quite wonderful, though. But like the article says, they are not many.

I even have the same experiences as the author when telling my non-muslim friends about some of the laws and ideas in ISlam. There is no example of even one country I can point to.

Many muslims are suffering all over the world and I make sure that they are in my prayers regularly but when I see some of the behaviour of our brothers in some countries I feel that I can't ask for sympathy for them from others. I am not even talking about the terrorists. Just ordinary people and their leaders.

And like sister Attia, sometimes I get really mad that we are not getting along. I feel that our religion gives us such potential for kindness, mercy humility and humanity, yet we don't express it.

May Allah guide us. Ameen. I am kind of scared because I feel that the hour is drawing nearer since these are the signs.
-R
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Dawn
05/01/03 at 15:30:41
[slm]

Most of the converts/reverts that I have "met" online tell a similar story to the author of this article.  In fact, off the top of my head, I can only think of one person who had no trouble being accepted in her mosque community.
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
mr-bean
05/01/03 at 16:18:06
[slm]

i think the unease which many converts/reverts feel is because of a very deep rooted superiority-inferiority complex of the older muslims; inferiority complex -- because they still can''t fit in after so many years and they don't look or sound like natives; superiority complex -- because they think they understand islam (after spending 40+ years in it) far  better than the convert who has spent 40+ days in Islam.  

However, from what I have seen this is dramatically different on college campuses.  Those who convert on campus generally have very positive experiences because the muslims on campus tend to be a lot more open minded, intelligent (i have been told), and sincere than the crusty old types (no offense intended) at the local mosques who seem to practice either arabislam or pakislam or something of that sort.

In fact one convert told me that he used to think that all  muslims were really intelligent and sincere (he converted while a student) untill he went to a muslim country and found out the opposite was true.  (The muslims he hung around with at school were intelligent and sincere).

So, i guess its not all bad news.  At least if you hang around the younger muslims who are culturally less well defined, then it much easier to fit in...

anyhow...this is just my meager two cents....

Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
eleanor
05/02/03 at 08:31:59
[slm]

My first encounter with Muslims in a mosque was when my husband and I went for Nikkah (marriage). At that time I had only known my husband about 4 months and I knew nothing about Islam.
So it was a Turkish mosque - most mosques here are. And we met the Imam and one or two other brothers. We had Nikkah - which involved me repeating syllables after the Imam - I had no idea what I was saying. When we were leaving they gave me an English translation of the Qur'an and a couple of booklets about the Prophet. I remember the Imam saying to my husband "Do you have a headscarf for her? She will have to wear one now". My husband's reaction "I don't want to pressure her - she will find her own way to Islam Insha Allah"
My reaction - get out of here FAST  :o

Slowly I found my own way to Islam in the following years but somehow always avoided going to a mosque and meeting muslims who might somehow judge me or tell me what to do. (first impressions last  :P)

Recently I met the german sister who did my film with me and I went to the mosque with her where we would be filming. IT was also a turkish mosque. We went into the sisters section and while there was general interest in who I was and what I was doing there (lots of heads turning and general whispering) a lot of sisters came and said salaam. I felt like I had come home. I felt like I had stepped into a masjid made up of the sisters on this board.
That town is 60km away so not very easily reachable. My husband came with me the next time when we were filming and when we were driving home he said he wished he lived in that town because the Ummah is so great.

The motto of the story - if you don't like the muslims you have met so far then look again.
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Nomi
05/02/03 at 09:41:08
[slm] all

well i would like to add that Allah will judge us all individually, it would never be an excuse that "i dint find any good muslims around me" ... well i've wasted my life as well, by not saying my prayers etc (was  not involved in major sin though) but how can i make this an excuse that no one was there to guide me? as "i" have got this thing in my head called a brain :) , so be prepared to do it on your own, read about "ashaab-e-kahaf" ?arn't these the ppl who left their homes to save their faith as a last resort? and stayed in a cave?

yes what the article said is true, yes i am sad that how "muslims" behave nowadays but i'll suggest what sis eleanor suggested

 if you don't like the muslims you have met so far then look again.  

i know someone who has been sending books to as far as the philipinas and uk right from here in pakistan (free of cost) to new convert to islam and he spends lots of time replying to their emails and chatting with them, .. and i know many gr8 muslims who do wonderful things specially they are so kind to new converts/reverts... so again i would like to say

be prepared to do it on your own

 if you don't like the muslims you have met so far then look again :).  

May Allah help us all and may we "Muslims" learn to become "islamically flexible" and show our kindest side to new converts/reverts

PS: [my brother was sharing with us (family) the other day that, would we be willing to share half our properties with new converts to islaam like the "ansaar" did??... thats the ultimate test isn't it? but no new convert would require that from us right?, they just require our friendship and attachment so lets convince the "muslims" who walk in our circle to learn from "sahabah" how to sacrifice, learn from the "ansaar"]
05/02/03 at 12:14:08
Nomi
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
oneway2paradise
05/02/03 at 18:27:41
[slm]

I "converted" to Islam about a year and a half ago.  I am as white as it gets, LOL.  :D However, I am one of those people who is very adaptable and I can mix with just about any group.  I've always loved different cultures and languanges and am very open-minded.  8) ;) What I see as the problem sometimes is a little bit of awkwardness on both sides.  Here are these "foreign" women (Arab, Pakistani, Malaysian, African, etc) in America.  They are stared at wherever they go, they struggle with the language, they face prejudice and when they finally get to the masjid....Ahhhhh...people who look like them and speak their language.  When they see the American sisters, they are shy because they feel that their English is not good enough and they don't know how to act with them.  The American sisters feel uncomfortable and think no one wants to talk to them and that the women are mean and rude.  I think it's a misunderstanding.

The other problem I see is the inability for some of the older "Muslims by birth" to understand the concept of taking the religion gradually...as the companions did.  They see a lady come to the masjid not wearing hijab and they all start screaming, "haram, haram!!"  The lady becomes discouraged and never wants to go back.  A convert should completely concentrate on Aqida and Tawheed and learning how to pray.  All of the other details will come along.  Alhamdulillah, I am a quick learner and was blessed with a wonderful husband so I have learned a lot in my short time as a Muslim.  But everyone is different and learns at their own pace.  Allah knows best what is in each of our hearts.  I just think a lot of sabr (patience) and communication is the key.  

Plus, every Muslim should read Milestones by Sayyid Qutb (he quoted it in the article).   ;D It is the responsibility for the Muslim Ummah to began educating itself again.  We will not be strong until we turn things back over to Allah.  :-) Well, I think I rambled on enough...that was a little more than $0.02 (two cents).  :-[  ;D  :-* :-*
[slm]  :-) :-* :-)
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Dude
05/03/03 at 05:25:49
[quote]How will being Muslim change their lives for the better if they already display more of the Islamic virtues than most of the Muslims they are likely to meet? I share what I have found when they show Interest, but like me they often look at the Muslim world and wonder what we have in common. They find it hard to see living examples of the principles of which I speak………………….. Hardly a day passed without some stranger feeling he ought to instruct me in the principles of Islam………………………………… My Islam sees in the prophet endless examples of forgiveness and tolerance, yet my friends see the mindless enforcement of rigid laws and eccentric punishments………………………………………………………………… My Islam insists on individual freedom, there is no compulsion, no priests are needed, and except for piety all men are equal. I kneel before no man, though I will kneel in prayer beside any, and my wealth and privilege is permitted, though charity is to be preferred, and the prophet chose to die a pauper………………………. "The most important thing in Islam" he said "is that your wife covers her head", a view of Islam which I had heard often from many Muslim men. In other words the most important thing in the practice of Islam is to get your wife to do it, or your children, or your grandfather, or anybody but yourself!(Been there too)………………………………It is as though Muslims are afraid that Islam can't stand up to common sense questions………………………If young Muslims are not shown the full richness of Islamic knowledge, we must not be surprised if they show more interest in fields where there seems further to explore…………………………Do Muslims in fact expect more from a convert than they do from those born in their cultures? How little does a westerner have to do before Muslims accept him as Muslim, and how far can he stray from their cultural norm before they consider him a disturbing intrusion and would rather that he stayed away? Is the reason there are not more converts because they would disturb the status quo?………………………………….. I think those of us who are born into Muslim families don't realise how converts/reverts face such a difficult task in trying to integrate into the Muslim community……………………………… Slowly I found my own way to Islam in the following years but somehow always avoided going to a mosque and meeting muslims who might somehow judge me or tell me what to do. (first impressions last)……………………………………[/quote]



I’ve highlighted the paragraphs that I find accurately reflect thoughts that come to my mind all to often. The highlighted sections include others comments from outside this article.

I quite often wonder why born Muslims find it so hard to understand why I have questions and doubts about Islam. Born Muslims need to understand…I’m a convert…I can’t automatically turn on my full belief in everything that is Islam like a light switch. I have questions. Lot’s of aspects about Islam (more than not) make sense to me. Some aspects don’t. I can’t help it that I have these questions or doubts. Some of my questions undermine my belief in God, and because of that, I’m not willing to accept what seem to be all born Muslims telling me is what should be “correct”.

Anyhow, thanks Jannah, for posting this. As you can tell, I struggle BIG TIME to try and explain to others on this board where I’m coming from…to nausium. This article really helps show where someone like me is coming from. It goes against the grain, but it tells a story that needs to be told.

God bless,

Dude.
05/03/03 at 05:31:28
Dude
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
a_Silver_Rose
05/04/03 at 00:11:35
[slm]
wow MashAllah jazak Allahu Kayron for posting that Jannah. I dont think it was harsh at all, but I think the author just said it like it was.

Yah I agree with Rameeza, some of us 'born' Muslims face the same situation. I myself preferred my nonmuslim friends over my muslim 'friends', (in my community anyway) and then wow I looked around and finally Alhumdulilah found some Muslim friends who were even better than my nonmuslim friends, just like sister Eleanor said, "if you don't like the muslims you have met so far then look again. " It took along while but it was def worth it.

I wasnt all that into Islam before, but I think there is a time that we all 'revert' into Islam.  And there is nothing better than that Alhumdulilah.

And I do think its not like that everywhere because I have personally heard a lady tell me that the character of some Muslims led her to Islam. I have also read some convert stories where the character of Muslims led them to Islam. Alhumdulilah. Like Bro Nomi said we are all responsible for our own actions. But then again there is no doubt that there are too many people who need to be educated in this matter, because its really sad and sick in my opinon.

05/05/03 at 17:14:17
a_Silver_Rose
We are venting?
Maliha
05/08/03 at 08:59:04
[slm]
Since we are venting about them mozlems I thought i could add my two cents :P
*sigh*
sometimes i wonder if the Muslims i encounter in our Masjid/community are living *literally* under water. Seriously, it just seems like there is a *huge* blanket of either apathy, unwareness, or simply disconnectedness that makes me want to run around and shake people out of their slumber...We are all sleeping in various degrees ::)
It's just sad though, i don't know if it's my community alone, or a reflection of the state worldwide. There is a dissaffectedness of hearts from the Deen..you can almost touch. Our Masjid is *very* cliquey, and it's hard to fully penetrate the close knit geographical sections of our community. There is a few like me, who end up floating from one "group" to another, forming neither a *close* connection to any of them or a complete dissatchement to all.
Then there is the issue of a lack of participation especially on the sister's side. Before I was married this was slightly less of an issue, although my mother sometimes dissapproved of me being called for this and that all the time. Also, I had at least two or three other sisters that were single, that were very involved too. Right after I got married, the other sisters did too, and some actually moved to different communities (North Va, *sigh*).
I tried to get my hubby involved, but we'd end up in meetings without a single woman present (aside from me). My husband naturally (gheerah i guess ::) ) started wondering okay "where are the wives/daughters/etc?)...anywayz, Alhamdullilah I am still involved but now i just focus on sunday school, girls youth group, and sisters halaqas.
It's just hard to be a strivinsis (pardon my pun  ;) ) cuz more and more you find yourself disconnected to the wider slumbering majority (again we are *all* sleeping to a certain extent...you fully wake up when you die)...I find myself seeking comfort from the "virtual" world, (*read: Jannah.org * ) that leaves my family laughing at my silliness when i speak of brothers and sisters I have never met  :) (*sigh* they don't understand this bond  :P )
Anywayz, my point is we do have lotsa work...and its sad that the first advice I tend to give reverts is just that..."don't mind the community they tend to get outta whack sometimes".
May Allah guide us all to form a strong Ummah based on true brotherhood, love for the sake of Allah, and Compassion for each other (Amin).
Sis,
Maliha :-)
[wlm]
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Rameeza
05/08/03 at 14:38:21
[slm]

I think I can relate to Dude when he says that questions are not always welcome amongst the muslims. Especially questions that are controversial.
I am sorry to say that I have seen this sometimes on this very site rgarding certain questions asked by various people.
I was once taught by an Islamic Studies teacher that Imaan was not just "faith" but "Faith with conviction". If one does not question and see the light [so to speak] how will one attain such Imaan.
Sometimes I think its wonderful to have a revert ask you some question that you never thought about or see something from a different perspective. This leads to strengthening your faith by clearing up any doubts.
For example, when I was in Saudi Arabia, my Islamic studies class had the topic of "baraath" covered in it. I went home and told my parents about it and caused quite a stir when I said that my teacher proved with authority and backup that there was no such thing. Most people from the Indo Pak suncontinent just follow their forefathers and practice this.
On questioning them they had no proof but in return questioned my faith. It was   a really upsetting day for me. Two days later the Arab News [the daily news paper] covered it in detail and gave all the information on it. It was great for me, cause now no one in my family or amongst my relations practice this.
All I'm trying to say is that, there are so many things that born muslims just practice because they heard about it or were taught by their family. They rarely check up everything. So when questions arise due to a person who is a revert learning it for the first time, it helps the born muslims, since it makes them have to dust out all those old books.
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
jannah
05/08/03 at 15:12:30
[wlm]

i really appreciate hearing your perspectives jazakamullahu khairan.. hopefully knowing these things is half the battle in changing them in our communities..

btw rameeza i do think reverts or anyone else should ask whatever questions they want to get the answers they need and their doubts cleared. but sometimes these 'controversial issues' are not beneficial to be discussed in an online forum such as this one where people might get carried away, start copy/pasting their fatwas and continue arguing etc etc.. as you've no doubt seen many times here, so this is why most of those 'controversial issues' are banned topics.

05/08/03 at 15:13:31
jannah
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
a_Silver_Rose
05/08/03 at 15:29:03
[slm]

I second what Rameeza sais hmm or is it a third now? ::)
Some Muslims think you are disregarding Islam just for questioning, but since ISlam is true and everything makes sense then why be scared? Ofcourse People are going to question when they want to learn more about a faith (even if its their own.) We need to take the question (even if its controversial) with open arms. We shouldnt tell them 'to leave' if they dont like it or that they are wrong no matter what when they bring out controversial points. We should help them understand as to why Islam sais this or that. Being defense shows that you dont have trust in your faith. This use to happen to me. I use to question so  many things in ISlam and people use to hate that, well guess what that just brought more doubts in my mind.  But I didnt give up and had faith (Alhumdulilah) and guess what im extremely satisfied and have my answers (there are some people who are gonna give up when they are turned off like that)

Another thing one has to understand is that you cant expect someone (bf or after they convert) to accept everything about ISlam automatically (seen someone say that on this board to a new convert)(And sadly, no Muslim challenged that). It comes with time and good examples. As sister Kathy told me, it took the suhabi 13yrs to learn Islam so anyone who tells a new covert to accept everything at once is wrong. I was reading a convert story (its the one where someone invited her into Islam (since it all made sence) she had to accept) Well she accepted Islam but I think she said she couldnt ever accept the hijab, and Alhumdulilah noone pushed her. AFter understanding the reasons, time, and because noone pushed her she is wearing full hijab now Alhumdulilah.

May Allah (swt) guide us all and help us follow the character of the prophet  [saw] and his companions. Ameen.
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Marcie
05/09/03 at 20:57:57
[color=Teal] [slm]

Yes, I know that I'm a day late and a dollar short.  I actually read the article when Jannah posted, but I was too busy to reply.  

Al hamdu lillah I have been a Muslim for about 13 years.  I always hate it when born Muslims are given a bad rap.  Yes, I have had experiences that were very frustrating.  I'm sure that all of my revert friends have, but the wonderful experiences that I have had far outweigh any of the bad experiences.   :)  I have met such wonderful sisters along the way, both young and old, al hamdu lillah.  Right now I'm teaching at an Islamic school al hamdu lillah and I have become good friends with sisters from around the world.  I really feel blessed by all of these friendships and the support that I have been given all of these years by loving sisters al hamdu lillah

I totally understand where mystic is coming from and I'm sure that my mosque is similar to Kathy's.  Unfortuantely there are the cliques, but al hamdu lillah there are many sisters, who are accepting of reverts and go out of there way to make them feel at home.  I also like to go because I like listening to the imam's khutbahs.  ;)

Since I have been a Muslim for so long I no longer consider myself as the other.  I try to reflect on what I'm doing and if I am being tolerant or understanding of others.  We, Muslims, are far away from Islam and I am also a part of this problem. Some days I am strong and and other days I fail miserably.  I really do try and focus on my own weaknesses.   :P

I thank Allah (swt) for all of the Muslims sisters and brothers, who have crossed my path and helped me in my struggles.  I know that I have been truly blessed al hamdu lillah.

[wlm]
Marcie   :-)

.[/color]
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Yasmeena
05/11/03 at 05:19:36
[slm]

Thank you for this post!  I cam relate to some of the feelings stated but for somewhat different reasons.  Or maybe not so different.

I became a Muslim a year ago this month.  :)  I had to go to South Carloina for my daughter's open-heart surgery.  The day of her surgery I met her "Pastor" as she referred to him to me.  I recognised Islamic clothing and knowing what I do about Islamic culture I was demure, quiet and respectful toward him while we talked, (I act like that all the time but more so with him).  He explained Islam and gave me a copy of the Qur'an and "Discover Islam - Your Birth Right".  I read the "Discover" book while the surgery was going on and the first 2 Surahs of the Qur'an.  He introduced me to his wife that evening.  She spent a lot of time with me over the next few days answering my questions and when I asked to attend Al-Jummah with her she loaned me an outfit to wear.  The Ummah was 90% African/American and I was treated like I had always belonged.  I reverted to Islam that first Friday I was in S.C..

I dreaded leaving there to come home to Washington State.  I live in a military town with very strong feelings since 9/11.  I dreaded leaving the "home" I had found there.  The Sisters of the Ummah made sure I had a good "spiritual backbone" and a strong dependance in Allah ta "ala.  It has come in handy.  The Ummah here is small and sometimes I am the only sister attending Al-Jummah.  It is awkward for me.  I read my Qur'an and any other books I can get my hands on.  My husband is good to me and I can get basically anything I need to grow in my faith in Allah ta 'ala, within reason of course.

I basically practice my faith at home with my husband and granddaughter I am raising, but feel so alone sometimes.  I am so thankful for this community.  I can log in and read posts that help me to learn, laugh and sometimes cry with a sister who is hurting.  I feel I have found another "home.  I love you all.  :-*

Yasmeena  :-)

[wlm]
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Rameeza
05/14/03 at 14:05:36
[slm]
Sister Yasmeena.  Thats amazing! Masha Allah.
God bless and may Allah always give you the strength and I hope that all of us can be your companions.
Salaams
Rameeza
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Nafisa
05/14/03 at 14:33:22
[slm]

This article rings a few bells for me even though I'm not a revert.  I find language is a huge barrier and as I dont speak my own native tongue this leads to me sitting in on loads of Islamic talks that I dont understand.  I find this really frustrating because I live UK and English is the common language for everyone and yet the talks are in another language.  My dad makes an effort to have English speakers if he knows I'm there on the women's side listening but usually it's only me who listens and I see evryone else get bored becuase they've already heard the Urdu, Bangla version etc.  I think culture can be alienating whether you're a revert or not and this can really impact the community.  I've haerd of mosques being set up by reverts for reverts becuase they need a place where they can understand the language and be able to interact with other muslims.  I guess this is necassary but it's sad to think we are all seperating rather than intergrating.  
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Kathy
05/15/03 at 09:26:10
[slm]

Even tho I wrote that I agreed with most of the stuff the lady wrote, I must speak in defence of our masjid and the Muslims there.

Most of them are warm caring people. They even go out of their way to greet me and I feel I have a wonderful relationship with them. many are very knowledgable and are struggling with different things in thier life.

Just recently a new revert sent me a nasty letter, in her perception I was not there enough for her, I disrescpected her children and backbited about her.

Ya Allah, I had no idea. Even after she expalined it to me... I still did not see how she came to those conclusions, but bottom line, this is how she percieves me. All of a sudden I was one of "them."

I asked her forgiveness, but she refused and has nothing to do with me now.

This has made me re think my perception of how born Muslims have treated me. How much was unintentional? How much was a mere language gap? Maybe my perception was wrong.

It wasn't until I made the effort to know 'them' that things began to change. Instead of focusing on how they treated me...I started to notice how they treated others, and was a bit surprised that 'they' acted the same way to their 'own.'

Even sometimes i amy have seemed rude. Last friday I saw a new Muslim in prayers. I had the intention to introduce myself, but someone stopped me, then another and then a Sister I just had to talk to was leaving. I ran up to catch her and walked out of the Masjid together with her.

Needless to say, that new person was left standing there. Ya Allah.

I think there is alot of wisdom in the hadith that says 'make excuses' for the Muslims. ya never know what is going on in their minds.

Do you know people who have a chip on their shoulders? I think most of us reverts do.

From the moment we become Muslim, too many people give us too much advice. So immediately we feel inadequate and 'stupid.' then after we have a little knowledge- we think we know it all, but don't.
Then some do become knowledgable and it irritates them that no one takes them seriously, or second guesses their advice, or just doesn't believe them.

If we come up with an idea, immediately it is dismissed, because it has never been this way.

We do not belong anywhere in a social gathering. For years we socialized with memebers of our society. Now we are segregated by gender and oftent he only person we know is our hubby who is a wall away. Too many continue to speak their language if we join them. There are halaqas all over town...but, understandably so, in their native language.

So with any social gathering a revert walks in... knowing they can not eat the food..way to spicy, they will be sitting alone, unable to join in any conversations, and getting alot of advice about how they look, about their makeup, or just the plain old stares. Or waiting for someone to come and complain about an activity that you did.

So yes, reverts do walk in with this chip on their shoulders.

So Insha Allah, even tho I am all passed that, I must remember what it was like and make an effort to put them more at ease.

I have to admit, that once the chip was gone, I found that most of what had happened were miscommunications, and they, like me now, were horrified that such perceptions happened.



Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Halima
05/16/03 at 10:58:54
I am a born Muslim but believe me, many of us take Islam for granted.  It is as if we are better than anyone else and most times, we act like we know it all.  How far from the truth that is.  We can learn a lot from the reverts.
They are the people who have struggled to get to Islam and in the process, sacrified a lot to do so.  They learn by trial and error and yet continute to learn about Islam by constantly searching from answers in everything they encounter.  

The truth is often bitter to swallow.  I have seen some born Muslims who treat reverts like second class Muslims.  Subhanallah, how wrong this is.

And there are exceptionally good born Muslims who go out of their way to embrace reverts to ease their entry into Islam.  They literally make some of the reverts part of their households and strive to teach them the Qur'an and Islamic way of life.  They constantly guide them.  Alhamdu Lillah for searh people.

But I do agree with Kathy about misunderstandings especially in relation to language barriers.

We need to find a common language for religious affairs depending on where we are.  This is not an easy task.  But where there is a will, there is a way.  Already, there signs for the need to change to accommodate each other.  All is not lost.  

Halima
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Chris
05/16/03 at 21:23:12
Well, speaking from my own perpecistive....

Most of the Muslims I've met at the Ambrose mosque have been very kind to me, as I have been attempting to learn more.  I've been helped out enormously by many of the brothers there, and its a wonderfully tolarent place.  That said, I am NOT (I swear this by Allah subhana ta'ta) (Hope I spelt that right) going to copy any of their cultural practices that I find personaly repulsive or unislamic.  

I swear that I will:

Treat sisters and brothers with equal respect

Treat sisters as equals and friends

Not marry anyone against their will

I still feel that the Taliban and the Saudi society are barbaric and I have and will pray for their victims.  

And as the guy said, even if you hate the muslims, you have no exchuse for not missing prayers that you can make without major problems.

Chris
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Chris
05/16/03 at 21:35:10
PS, what do you think of my new signiture?
C
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Halima
05/18/03 at 05:15:33
I am an elderly, but I will use the language of the young and say, 'cool!'.


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