A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Shahida |
| 05/05/03 at 10:28:04 |
| [slm] I spoke to a friend of mine last night, who is to be married in December, and I was so *shocked* when she said, "well, the reason I love him so much..."...How is it that even "practising" Muslims and Muslimas fall into this love thing before they get married? Is it because we have inculcated in ourselves the need for an elaborate, expensive wedding, that needs lots of time to plan, thus postponing a rather simple and inexpensive Islamic Nikaah ceremony? What is the status of these two young people? They are not married, have not signed the marriage contract, but are "engaged" according to the western ideas of engagement...by my standards that means they are still NOT mahram of each other, and therefore not supposed to be "falling in love" or entertaining such notions. Am I wrong? And how do we as a Muslim society go about changing these things, and educating our youth and our selves about what is Halaal and Haraam about these kinds of situations? Wasalam from a thoroughly shocked and disappointed Shahida |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Dude |
| 05/05/03 at 11:01:27 |
| In my opinion, sometimes falling in love is unintentional, and just happens. Whatever leads to it isn’t the issue now, but rather, how the couple deal with it. If they are choosing to get married, and keep Islam in their household, shouldn’t they be supported (assuming the parents are all on board)? (Why do I get the feeling I’m setting myself up here?) |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| lala |
| 05/05/03 at 11:25:01 |
| I think you are right Dude. You can 'fall in love' even under Islamic conditions etc... Since when is falling in love bad - as long as you maintain islamic principles and actions... lala |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Dude |
| 05/05/03 at 12:02:25 |
| I wouldn’t necessarily agree with that…I’ve met lots of couples whom seem to be completely devoted to each other, and love each other, and their marriages were arranged. I also know of many arranged marriages that have failed. On top of that, I know of a lot of love marriages that have failed. I think it is best to say there isn’t one tried and true formula. Couples either make it work, or they don’t. You either love someone, or you don’t. I personally wouldn’t be able to see myself falling in love under “Islamic conditions”, but then, I haven’t tried it. I agree though…if it happens on it’s own, why not endeavor to make it work through Islamic principles? I’m sure we’ll get more than our share disagreeing here, but that’s the fun part! |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| BroHanif |
| 05/05/03 at 13:34:48 |
| Salaams, The question you need to ask is if you've never fallen in love then how do you know what it feels like to be loved or to love. Sis Sahida be easy on your friend, she may have fallen in love with him by his piety and his strong character of Islam. We are only presented with one side of the coin, how do we know what the other side holds. She many not be exactly in love but has strong feelings for him, wouldn't you if you were going to get married to someone. Take this for example, your going to get married to a bro in a months time, within that month your saying to me that you would not have any feelings for him ? The nervousness, the shakes, the doubts, the warm feelings conjured when you think of him ? What if your long distance away and communicate by phone do you not get a tingling in your heart everytime he says salaamz ? C'mon I think not many of us on this board are that strong to dispel such emotions for our intended partners. Yes it may appear to be haraam in a certain way but give the couple the benefit of the doubt. Salaams Hanif |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| lightningatnite |
| 05/05/03 at 13:38:54 |
| [slm] The advice given by Dude is unislamic. In Islam, the consequence of marriage is love, but not necessarily vice versa. I believe there has been warnings in the past about giving advice to Muslims that are against Islam. It is so sad that even in our own forums Muslims cannot get halal advice. Sister Shahida, I hear you :) We have a general decline of Islam the world over. When once upon a time, marriages were based on spiritual principles that led to true fulfillment in life, more and more people are giving in to their urges. True love in Islam is love for Allah. Divine love. Our worldly love is a ray of that Divine love that manifests in our lives. How much more fulfilling than a weekend romance! :) |
| 05/05/03 at 15:40:31 |
| lightningatnite |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Dude |
| 05/05/03 at 13:56:06 |
| Did I give any advise, anywhere? [quote]In my opinion, sometimes falling in love is unintentional, and just happens. Whatever leads to it isn’t the issue now, but rather, how the couple deal with it. If they are choosing to get married, and keep Islam in their household, shouldn’t they be supported (assuming the parents are all on board)? [/quote] Show me the advise part you refer to. Seems to me that you'll read "haram" into anything I'll ever write, so what does it matter? I clearly stated In my opinion, sometimes falling in love is unintentional, and just happens. Do you disagree? I also stated: If they are choosing to get married, and keep Islam in their household, shouldn’t they be supported (assuming the parents are all on board)? Do you disagree? Finally, I stated: I think it is best to say there isn’t one tried and true formula. Couples either make it work, or they don’t. You either love someone, or you don’t....I agree though…if it happens on it’s own, why not endeavor to make it work through Islamic principles? I eagerly await your rebuttal, and opinion on these particular points. I also eagerly await your proof that I gave advise here, in this section. Thanks. |
| 05/05/03 at 14:14:07 |
| Dude |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Nistar |
| 05/05/03 at 14:37:54 |
| Falling in love *is* unintentional. If anything, one can argue that falling in love is part of Divine Preordinance. Has anyone read, "Daughters of a Different Path"? How many women in this book say that they fell in love, converted, and then became highly pious muslims? I even recount one story where a woman began dating a Muslim man -- when he fell in love with her, he asked her to convert, put on hijab, and get married to him. Although she felt strongly for him, she refused and they parted (as they had been dating a week). Years later after her own study and personal revelation, she came to Islam on her own accord. She moved to a new town, joined the local mosque, and asked the sisters' representative to ask the Imam for an arranged marriage. She didn't even see the man -- they were married in separate rooms. When they met, her new husband turned out to be the man she originally fell in love with! Sure, they didn't have an engagement -- they had a creatively Islamic wedding. Nevertheless -- they loved each other, and God made it happen. Medina Wrestler is correct -- we don't have both sides of the coin. Perhaps your friend is in a habit of saying "love" when she means "like" -- who knows. Perhaps she was also simply pointing out his good qualities (ie: reasons why she would say yes to marriage). And just because she loves him, it doesn't mean they have been doing anything wrong together. Engagement is a liminal phase -- you are no longer single, but not yet married. You mentioned that it is an engagement by Western standards -- isn't there an Islamic equivalent? Even of 3 or 4 days? If she is a practising Muslim, why assume she will transgress certain boundaries with her "future husband"? As her friend and good sister, I'm sure you will look out for her best interests....right? :) Sure, she can have a humble nikkah tomorrow -- but if she is steeped in traditionalism and culture, she will still have an extravagant wedding in December. Finally, I think judging a statement to be "unislamic" or not, is beyond any of us here. Peace, Nistar |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| mr-bean |
| 05/05/03 at 15:08:00 |
| [slm] I have something kindof radical to say. This is basically because (1) Muslims have a hard time of becoming the part of the accepted fabric of society because they look different -- skin color, hair color....etc (2) Where ever muslims went they intermarried with the local populations. So if the object is to the maximize muslim numbers and the acceptance of islam in the west, wouldn't it be most desirable if (a) Muslim guys married more local women? (b) Muslim ladies married more local men? By local i mean yeah...people who look traditionally american, i.e. black or white or perhaps oriental, native american indian....etc. If despite my idiocy, you agree with me so far, well then the only way i see that such a thing could happen is via relationship marriages (not arranged marriages). So according to my completely messed up logic, it would then be desirable for muslim guys to get into relationships with such women, then marry them, and do their best to convince them to convert. Likewise, it would desirable for muslim women to "catch" local guys, convince them of islam, marry them and then have lots of children !!! The basic point is: in order for muslims to fit in -- they need to integrate (in a positive way) in this society. And everywhere muslims went throughout history, they integrated with the local population. And from what i know, the biggest cause prompting American women to convert is marrying a muslim man after a having a (at least somewhat haram) relationship with him for some time. Yeah i know i'm kinda messed up....but its just a thought. |
| geez.. |
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| princess |
| 05/05/03 at 15:13:35 |
| as'salaamualaikum ;D love is a feeling. it's an emotion. it's not something you have control over. and i'd have to respectfully disagree with the notion that you can't love someone unless you've married them. [quote author=Nistar link=board=madrasa;num=1052141284;start=0#7 date=05/05/03 at 14:37:54]Sure, she can have a humble nikkah tomorrow -- but if she is steeped in traditionalism and culture, she will still have an extravagant wedding in December.[/quote] sad, but oh, so true :-/ |
| 05/05/03 at 15:14:06 |
| princess |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| lightningatnite |
| 05/05/03 at 16:11:00 |
| [slm] I'm reading a book entitled "Islam in America" and its a collection of essays written by Muslims. The last article in the book is on Muslim marriages in North America. The author points out that over 60% of Muslims in North Amarica become divorced within the first year. So, imagine, out of the remain 40%, how many are actually happy? In the recent issue of JAMA, the journal of the American Medical Association, an article states that 40% of all women who are admitted to emergency rooms are there because of domestic violence or date rape. What has happened to the institution of marriage? Do we have any less 'love' in today's world than in generations gone by? It is true that some men and women have come into Islam because of love, and some of them are angels, mashaAllah :) But many many marriages of this type end in divorce, and the children lost. Two of my best childhood friends...so many more I have seen with my own eyes lost, melted into America. True there have been some sisters who have come into this deen through their husbands, who had illicit relationships with them. Hmm, if dating was halal, probably so many more people would learn about Islam. But what are the long term implications? Whats the harm of falling in love? Hmm...well it weakens the institution of marriage. It can lead to fornication and adultery (I've seen it in my own Muslim community). It can divide families. It can result in religious people being belittled because they are not so charismatic or pretty (and incidentally, good brothers or sisters not getting married because they don't mingle as much as they should). I wouldn't want my daughter finding a person to marry based on his charm :) I'd like her to find a righteous pious husband who will treat her right and guide her to jannah, even after the romance wears off. |
| 05/05/03 at 16:49:28 |
| lightningatnite |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| moonie |
| 05/05/03 at 16:11:22 |
| I think you are right man. You can fall in love even under Islamic conditions Since when is falling in love wrong - as long as you follow the islamic principles and actions |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| lightningatnite |
| 05/05/03 at 16:29:13 |
| [slm] A good book to read is "Love of Allah" by shaykh Zulfikar Ahmad Naqshabandi. In it he describes two types of love: "Ishq Haqeeqi" and "Ishq Majaaziy". He says that the first type, True Love, is love of Allah. The second type, Metaphorical Love, is worldly love. He warns of the terrible consequences of it, and how it is one of the greatest enemies to a human beings spiritual development. Here is an online version, please see page 59: http://www.faqirpublications.com/love_allah.pdf |
| 05/05/03 at 16:30:16 |
| lightningatnite |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Dude |
| 05/05/03 at 16:29:21 |
| You’ve taken the time to generalize all of Western society, without even offering comparable statistics from an Islamic state. You’ve made a huge leap: you’ve suggested that because somebody may not be Muslim, or may not practice ideal Islamic values (as you see them), that the likelihood of that young lady ending up in the hospital a victim of domestic abuse or rape is heightened. I have seen far too many examples of abuse inside the Muslim community, to the point it sickens me. One has been happening in our own family…arranged marriage, both husband and wife moved here from Fiji. I try my best not to let this affect my opinion of Muslims, but it is difficult. It always seems to be that the abusive husband is someone who came here from elsewhere… “The old country”, as they put it. Another generalization, this time spun a different way. You’ve making a huge leap from one issue to something altogether more serious, and different. You state that you wish Muslims could come here and get good, Islamic advise. What is this, then? [quote]I wouldn't want some punk fliriting with my daughter, I'd give him a beat down [/quote] YEAH! Great Islamic advise! BTW: when are you going to address my points, Lightningatnite? ??? Or, are my points too "un-Muslim" for you to address? |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 05/05/03 at 16:42:10 |
| [slm] Sister Shahida Really your post is the only one I read so Im answering from that. [quote]Is it because we have inculcated in ourselves the need for an elaborate, expensive wedding, that needs lots of time to plan, thus postponing a rather simple and inexpensive Islamic Nikaah ceremony? What is the status of these two young people? They are not married, have not signed the marriage contract, but are "engaged" according to the western ideas of engagement...by my standards that means they are still NOT mahram of each other, and therefore not supposed to be "falling in love" or entertaining such notions. Am I wrong? [/quote] Well they are getting married so Alhumdulilah it is good. Although I agree that they shouldnt be overtalking in their engagement. But this is not a western principle, but actually a very eastern one. In the West its more about talking before you even get engaged, but in the East lot of people think its ok to hang out if you are engaged, including parents. In Pakistan there are many parents who let their kids go out w/ their fiance alone! and let them talk to each other freely. I have heard stories where two people fall in love during their engagement period (they didn tknow ea. other b/f engagement so it was arranged) then later their parents decided to break the engagement which hurt the two kids very much since the parents were the ones who put them together in the first place. And yes I agree when you are talking to each other falling ln love just happens, you cant really help that, but this is also due to the fact that cultrualy we have long engagement periods and treat the fiance as if he or she is a mahram now. |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| BroHanif |
| 05/05/03 at 16:47:48 |
| Salaams, [quote]I wouldn't want some punk fliriting with my daughter, I'd give him a beat down [/quote] Very interesting, only thing is if it was my son or Dude's son would you still beat him up ? I doubt it. And what if the relationship was spurned by your daughter ??? Remember Lightningatnite a relationship is between two people not just one. Would you beat down your daughter as well ?. You would cause more harm than good. Sometiems we all need to control the raging bull in us. Salaams Hanif |
| NS |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| lala |
| 05/05/03 at 17:15:34 |
| First off, if you've ever been in real love with someone you would do almost anything to safeguard them and look out for them. The notion that love only brings divorce or rather 'weakens the institution of marriage' is a generalization at most. Dont get me wrong, love in a physical sense can lead to fornication...but the kind of love I'm talking about is having deep respect, care and admiration for someone of the opposite sex. We should not truly disregard love b4 marriage as being truly horrible and unislamic. Most of us here realize that the most blessed love is the one we each hold for Allah... But golly gosh folks, isnt it good to be loved:)? But I'm digressing..so thats that. Lets not judge the sister and the brother who are engaged.. |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| jannah |
| 05/05/03 at 17:29:32 |
| [slm] True lala, I think there are very many definitions of love. So this "love" before marriage could mean mutual respect, admiration, attraction, sharing of common interests, etc. "Love" after marriage... a deeper, different type of love.. tolerance, understanding, deep caring...etc. |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Chris |
| 05/05/03 at 19:41:22 |
| How is it, that when ever we touch upon a serious topic that needs serious attention, we start argueing about little details? The sad fact of the matter is that relationships need love in the mix somewhere. Douphless there would be less pain involved if we had a mating season instead of being on heat practically all the time, but I think it adds a little something to the effect. Now, more than love is needed for the relationship to survive past the point when phiscall attrachion wears off. It needs respect and liking to be present. Speaking for myself, my g/f and I started out as friends and our friendship slowly became love when it was needed. We have had a very nice relationship and we have not had stresses like so many other couples who just jumped in stright away. Chris |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 05/05/03 at 20:11:13 |
| [slm] Just wanna say for those of you who are *sincerely* interested in learning about the Islamic stance and view towards love, its different types, and cures for those types that are harmful, a wonderful book to read is Ibn al-Qayyim's [i]al-Jawab al-Kaafi, li man sa'ala an al-Dawaa al-Shaafi[/i]. The book's title literally means "The Sufficient Response for him who asked for a Healing Medicine." It was written to respond to a query brom someone who had fallen in love with a woman. He was not married to her. Unfortunately, it's only available in Arabic and Urdu :( Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah |
| 05/05/03 at 20:39:19 |
| jannah |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Dude |
| 05/05/03 at 20:26:06 |
| [quote]Douphless there would be less pain involved if we had a mating season instead of being on heat practically all the time[/quote] Funny because it's true. [quote]I'd like her to find a righteous pious husband who will treat her right and guide her to jannah, even after the romance wears off. [/quote] Yes, this is true, but what about friendship? Wouldn't you want your daughter to marry someone who treats her with respect, as a best friend would? This next part is not meant to be advise, only insight. Speaking personally, before coming to know Islam, I had been involved with romantic relationships as well. Having said that, when I met my wife, and learned about her, and became friends with her, it really became obvious for me: this was the woman I wanted as my wife. It wasn't because she's gorgeous (she is), or kind (she is), loves her parents (she does), is faithful to God (she is), received my Mum's blessing (she did, and later on she hooked the old man, too), wanted children (we have two now), or because we had developed a strong friendship through school...it was all of these things. I did not want a wife before I met her...I didn't want to get married (I shudder to think where my life would have lead had I not settled down)! Meeting her changed everything for me. Now, many will say that we met under haram circumstances...who am I to argue? I'm new to Islam, and have a hard time debating that point. I also had one ignorant coward tell me that our marriage was invalid in the eyes of God. Well, to people like that, I say stuff it. We've both worked extremely hard to make our marriage work. She's worked hard to help me learn about Islam, and I've worked hard to accept it. The suggestion that my marriage would be considered invalid in the eyes of God, because of the way we met, is unacceptable to me. Beyond that, I believe it is a false preconception in Islam. Being attracted to one another is important, but being friends, in my opinion, is more important. We're best friends first, lovers second. Intimacy fades, but friendship, devotion, and respect don't (or, shouldn't). You need it all to make a marriage work, but the last three are the most important elements. Once again, this is my opinion, based on my experience of being involved in what I would term a successful marriage that has produced two beautiful children- God bless them every day. This isn't meant to be "religious" advice...so take it for what it is worth. |
| 05/05/03 at 20:28:21 |
| Dude |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| bhaloo |
| 05/05/03 at 20:29:03 |
| [slm] [quote author=Abu_Hamza link=board=madrasa;num=1052141284;start=15#19 date=05/05/03 at 20:11:13] a wonderful book to read is Ibn al-Qayyim's [i]al-Jawab al-Kaafi, li man sa'ala an al-Dawaa al-Shaafi[i]. The book's title literally means "The Sufficient Response for him who asked for a Healing Medicine." It was written to respond to a query from someone who had fallen in love with a woman. He was not married to her. [/quote] Brother Hisham had translated a really good portion of it that I always use whenever this topic comes up, but now I don't know how to use the search feature on the old messages so I can't find it, and my email is lost with this information. :( I guess I could always ask him if he has it, but if someone else does have that info put it up. I didn't know they had an Urdu translation. :o That would be great if you translated it. :) |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 05/05/03 at 21:55:08 |
| [slm] [quote]The advice given by Dude is unislamic. In Islam, the consequence of marriage is love, but not necessarily vice versa. I believe there has been warnings in the past about giving advice to Muslims that are against Islam. It is so sad that even in our own forums Muslims cannot get halal advice. [/quote] I believe one should be very careful when judging someones advice(altho there was no advice given) to be unislamic especially since they might be wrong. And to judge someone like that is unislamic, not to mention very rude and hurtful. Fear Allah (swt) as you told him once. It seems like the majority of people agree with him here. Another point to make is that it really doesnt have anything to do with the West but actually whats happening in the East as I have mentioned. Dont forget this hadith: (as told to me by sista) During the time of the Prophet [saw] there was a man who was 'head over heals in love' with this woman. ...she didn't want him. Rasullullah took pity on him and said to her, "I wish you would marry him". She asked him, "Is that an order?" He said, "No, it is only a recommendation." To which she replied, "I don't need your recommendation." (Note: Not rudely! Deficiency in translation...) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There is nothing unislamic about being in love, although that feeling may have originated by passing the limits of Islam (such as talking to much to the opposite gender (nonmahrem) and not keeping to reason) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Divorces arent due to love marriages, but they are due to the fact that people believe one has to be 'in love' to have a happy marriage. A relationship takes effort so being in love is not always enough. And alot of times not necessary. What is necessary is companionship and the goal of Jannah. Having said that there are many 'love marriages' that work. ~~~~~`~~~~~~~ BAck to topic, well since they are in love, lets pray that it does end up in marriage. I see it as a blessing to be able to marry the one you are in love with. Allah (swt) knows best Your Sister |
| 05/06/03 at 15:24:42 |
| a_Silver_Rose |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| deenb4dunya |
| 05/05/03 at 22:11:11 |
| Assalamu Alaikum, (This is in no way meant as advice... this is rather a new question:)) I've been monitoring this thread... I wanted to run a scenario past you guys.. tell me...where would this fall? The reason I'm asking this question is because the word 'love' seems to have many meanings and connotations. Say there is a brother or sister who you 'love' (not sure how everyone would understand this word???) for the beautiful qualities Allaah swt has imbued them with that He swt loves, such as birr (righteousness), sabr, taqwaa, khushoo'(humility), hayaa' (bashfulness, modesty, humility)...etc. You love and/ or desire to marry him/ her because of his/ her character... would this be considered reprehensible. Allaahu 'Alam but based on the little 'ilm I have, I would say that to a certain degree this would be ok (if their is a possibility you may marry him/her... or if you are engaged...) but in general one should detach themselves from this type of 'love' lest it leads one to a deeper form of hub. Can the more well-versed students of knowledge clarify what I may have misunderstood...?? Wallaahu 'Alam, Wassalamu Alaikum, Deen |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 05/05/03 at 22:27:06 |
| [slm] [quote]And how do we as a Muslim society go about changing these things, and educating our youth and our selves about what is Halaal and Haraam about these kinds of situations? [/quote] What is important in a spouse? Deen , character, ect. Once we are sure we we want to marry a person then nikkah should be ASAP (after you have seen how they deal w/ people ect) Also maybe educating the parents as well as youth that a fiance is still a not a mahrem and should be not treated as one. This article has some good info: http://members.tripod.com/maseeh1/advices7/id209.htm |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Shahida |
| 05/06/03 at 07:11:41 |
| [slm] My my, didn't mean to get everyone on their defensive sides... I am not talking about "love" in the sense of "love for the sake of Allah", or admiration because he is so pious or whatever...that I think would be normal, as he is the one you have chosen to marry, obviously there are traits and qualities you admire in him-->that's why you are getting married, right? This "love" I am talking about is the kind of love that my non-Muslim friends have felt for their husbands before they married. It is the feeling they *need* to have BEFORE they feel ready to marry the other person. It is the love that grows by really intimately getting to know someone, spending all your time with them, going out and looking for houses together, and shopping for furniture hand-in-hand, nevermind spending hours and hours on the phone with each other, late into the night, discussing things that people who are married would discuss with their spouses. They are engaged, yes. What do I mean by this? His family went to her family's house, where there was a big celebration and he put an engagement ring on her finger. (Is this not what happens in the non-Islamic situation of engagement? That's what I meant by saying that they are engaged according to the Western understanding of engagement). My point is, that *we* (I mean, this Muslim society) think that all the stuff I said above is ok for the engaged couple to do. I do *not* think that is ok at all, and was shocked that she would even tell me about how she "loves" him in a way that is not about love=admiration... Engagement in Islam? Please someone explain this to me. We do not use the word engagement in a context where the two people get to know each other for marriage. That's the "get to know each other for marriage" stage. What comes next? In my understanding, if you have come to an understanding that the 2 of you are Islamically and otherwise compatible, then you make plans to get married. Signing a marriage contract, having a Nikaah ceremony does not take months and years to plan. Before marriage, you are NOT Mahram for/to each other, therefore, NOT allowed to go out together, and probably this would mean that the guy is only allowed to visit the sister at her home, or in the company of a Mahram. This admiration that grows inside of you, this "tingle" that Bro Hanif spoke about...is that love? InshaAllah, I hope not. I would hope that love is more than that, and grows from a deeper understanding and appreciation for the person. When my Arab friends talk about being "engaged", they mean that they have signed the marriage contract(so married by Islamic standards), but have not yet consummated the marriage. In this time, they are Halaal for each other, can visit each other without a Mahram present, etc... So I am being hard on her? It is because I had higher expectations for someone who I believed grew and transcended the societal and cultural understanding of Islam. Boy, we have a lot of work to do, a long road ahead of us... Salam Shahida |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| jaihoon |
| 05/06/03 at 08:08:49 |
| [quote author=jannah link=board=madrasa;num=1052141284;start=15#17 date=05/05/03 at 17:29:32][slm] "Love" after marriage... a deeper, different type of love.. tolerance, understanding, deep caring...etc. [/quote] and more/most importantly commitment coupled with responsibility. :) Allahu A'lam ::) |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Maliha |
| 05/06/03 at 08:18:49 |
| [slm] Sis Shahida I hear ya...I never got the idea of engagement myself. Recently we went to a wedding, at the end they had an engagement party for another couple. The girl was like 15, the guy maybe 20 or 21 at the most. They were both *not* ready to get married for a couple of years at least. Yet, I kinda know that they now have the license to talk, hold hands, spend time alone etc. It's a cultural phenomenon that has taken religious connotations despite the fact that it's against religion. We just need to be more aware of the fine lines that lead us to sin...especially when it's specifically stated in the Quran "do not go *near* zina". Being engaged is meaningless in Islam. The Taaruf session can be as long as needed. Muslims should take the time to know each other, especially when divorce rates are so high. One of the issues is that Muslims tend to jump into marriage, without taking the time to *really* know eachother. A year or less into the marriage they decide to divorce, when reality kicks in. Our Imam will not have a nikaah if pre counselling is not done. I think its an awesome idea. Sometimes Muslim men take advantage of Muslim reverts because of paperwork/citizenship, our Imam takes the steps to ensure that they are legit. More than once he adviced a woman against being married because he sensed insincerity on the man's side. (okay this is another topic...) Anywayz, my point is I agree with you Shahida, Nikah aint a big deal. If a couple has *successfully* gone through Taaruf session, they *know* they want to marry eachother, but the ceremony is way off for whatever reason, they should at least do Nikaah. Make it legit in the Allah's eyes, and start off the relationship steeped in His Blessings, Guidance, and Mercy. May Allah guide us all (Amin). Sis, Maliha :-) [wlm] |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| sofia |
| 05/06/03 at 12:58:03 |
| As-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah Interesting points made. Just had one thing to add. [color=purple]The best solution for two people who are in love, is marriage.[/color] - Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him (not sure of exact wording or authenticity) Islaam recognizes that humans are humans. It also sets guidelines. Rather than focusing on whether or not two people are in "love" before marriage, the main issue is whether or not we're trying to follow Islaamic guidelines. And this deen is about 'ilm/knowledge (to be able to implement these guidelines). It's a constant struggle/jihaad we all need to work on; ie, we all have something. |
| NS |
| 05/06/03 at 12:58:59 |
| sofia |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Sparrow |
| 05/06/03 at 20:25:28 |
| Hi all: I have no advice, Islamic or otherwise :) I just have a question. When a couple agrees to marry, what *can* they do before the actual ceremony? I mean in terms of their interaction. Could they go for a walk together with a mahram present as well? Could they sit in the living room and talk if Mom and Dad are in the next room? Thanks! Sparrow |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| muslimah853 |
| 05/08/03 at 23:02:59 |
| Hi Sparrow Hmm. You might get different answers on this one. For me, my preference is to say no. I won't go so far as to say that those things are prohibited, but I definitely don't prefer it. Before the decision is made to marry, when both parties are trying to figure out if he/she is the one, that's fine. But I generally think that once you are sure that you definitely do want to marry this person, the best course of action is to go ahead and do it, and then you can take all the strolls you want, without a third party. Islamically there is a preference to marry right away once you are sure that it's the right thing to do. It is very difficult not to step over the boundaries with someone you're engaged to. What happens oftimes, and this is more common among the Arab Muslims that I know, is that when couple has decided to marry, and for whatever reason they may not want to move in together right away, maybe she is finishing school, or maybe they want to have a large wedding that takes time to plan, or just cultural norms, is that they actually get married, do the legal contract portion of things, and then go and have a bigger, larger, celebration some time later when they are actually going to move in together and/or consumate the marriage. So in the meantime, they are not torutured by the fact that they love this person and know that they want to be with them for the rest of their life, but have to wait until the wedding six months to a year later to actually spend time with them. My husband and I did something like this--we got married a week after we made the decision--and we planned our walimah (wedding feast) where we invited all of the family and friends from in and out of town for some time later. I hope this helps. |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| theOriginal |
| 05/09/03 at 11:32:19 |
| [slm] Sure you can be in love without being married. Of course you can. You just can't act on that love. In fact you shouldn't admit it to anyone else, unless you marry the guy/girl. You shouldn't show it in an unislamic manner, and you should do yourself a favor by creating distance unless and until you are married. And once you're married, your love becomes drawn on different things which make the relationship more weighted. Okay I'm done. Wasalaam. |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Nomi |
| 05/09/03 at 12:24:10 |
| [slm] people i want to share something with you all, its about a secret love affair of mine as not many people know about it.. erm... the thing is that . . . erm... how should i put it !!!!!!!!!!!!!! . . . . well... ....... heh :) I LOOOOOVE MY AMMEE (mother) [i]aur bhee gham hain zamanaay mae[/i] ... Asim Zafar :) |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| se7en |
| 05/09/03 at 14:09:28 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah, It may be that the engaged ppl don't *want* a huge delay until their nikaah/waleema, but due to their circumstances (parents feeling strongly about it, the need to finish school, etc) they have to wait. Any suggestions for people in this situation, on how to keep their feelings in check? [quote]When a couple agrees to marry, what *can* they do before the actual ceremony? I mean in terms of their interaction. [/quote] There are no special rules for engagement in Islam.. the rules/prohibitions change only *after* the actual ceremony takes place. That's why it's such a challenge for a lot of people to keep their emotion and actions in check.. and that's why getting married (at least having the nikaah ceremony done) as soon as possible is so encouraged. [quote]Could they go for a walk together with a mahram present as well? Could they sit in the living room and talk if Mom and Dad are in the next room? [/quote] The general rule in Islam when it comes to our interaction with other people is that.. unless something is prohibited in text, it is permissible. And the prohibition is on being alone with someone of the opposite sex.. so the things you mentioned are technically permissible. The thing is, we should try our best to follow not only the letter of the sacred law, but the spirit behind it as well. An example.. if somone asks me if I did something and I did it.. but I don't say anything in response. I'm not *technically* guilty of lying.. but I am going against the *spirit* of the prohibition on lying and dishonesty. So.. same thing here.. if we understand the prohibition to mean that we shouldn't allow ourselves to do things that will make our emotions very difficult to control.. then we should try to make our behavior *inside* the law in accordance to that as well. Personally, I've seen the things you've mentioned done a lot with people who are just getting to know each other, and want to learn more about each other for the purpose of marriage. But.. doing it everyday once you're engaged might just drive you both crazy :) I feel bad for the poor third wheel/chaperone/mahram guy.. :P wasalaamu alaykum :-) |
| 05/09/03 at 14:36:38 |
| se7en |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Sunnah |
| 05/11/03 at 22:32:32 |
| [slm] well... ....... heh :) I LOOOOOVE MY AMMEE (mother) [i]aur bhee gham hain zamanaay mae[/i] ... Asim Zafar :)[/quote] what i will have to confess is that............... I looooooooovvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeee my Abbee/baba (father). My jaan, my hero ------>>>> is my father. :) Nice posts...now i am more learned about love. ;) i don't like to look for love...it would be havenly if "Love" find me :) and benifit me with my religion and in deepening my love for Allah (swt) Therefore, i would love anybody who love Allah...I love ya all good Muslims!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you a lot brother lightningatnite for the article (book: love for Allah). May Allah reward you all for your love. ameen |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| IMuslim_4Ever |
| 05/12/03 at 21:16:47 |
| [slm] Very interesting points...hmm love b4 marriage...hmmm... Good luck whoever fall in that catogary...cuz it aint so easy...its too painful. i have seen quiet a lot for my age. Interesting Post indeed.... Have some drink you all...maybe tired after reading all that...i was. :) [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] |
| Re: About "love" b4 marriage... |
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| Rameeza |
| 05/14/03 at 13:55:33 |
| [slm] On similar lines I have question Anyone heard of the Maldives or the Maldive Islands???? Well, the Maldives is a muslim country. A set of 2000 Islands off the west coast of India. I hear that the young people have to find their own spouses there. Any proposed marriage is considered a bad thing for the couple. People who marry through a proposal are considered to be those who are not good enough since no one fell for them. One of my friends is from this country and is a great person but due to her parents bringing them up in a strict sheltered background she has not met anyone to marry. When I asked her if she will marry through a proposal she says that it will look bad. What do we do when an entire muslim country thinks this way??? |
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