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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| who said what to whom ?! |
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| Nomi |
| 05/09/03 at 13:33:10 |
| [slm] From my experience of talking to all sorts of Muslims i came to know that many among the ummah label each other by the word "fundamentalist", its not a general rule but someone not offering prayers at all would call a 5 timer a "fundamentalist", someone who does pray but doesn't have a beard would label a bearded man with the word "fundamentalist", an unvield lady would say the same for a hijabi and sometimes a hijabi sis would say the same for a hijabi+niqaabi !!! let me reiterate, i'm not generalizing but it does happen often many would call us on this board fundamentalists as well, even a formula can be derived for the behavior of some muslims i.e. if i follow "X" number of islamic teachings and the number of teachings that you follow are X+N where N is a positive integer starting from (may be) 5, then YOU are a fundamentalist !! seriously speaking... we've talked about the derogatory words in other threads and you might agree with me when i say that this word "fundamentalist" is also something that the kuffar and their media started using to insult Muslims and many of us (Muslims) in our criminal ignorance started using the word for our Muslim bretheren. i think we should float the idea to not to call any muslim with that word coz united we must stand and obviously the X+N one's should not demean X-N one's !! your brother in islaam who follows X-N number of islamic teachings.. |
| 05/09/03 at 14:15:29 |
| Nomi |
| Re: who said what to whom ?! |
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| Nomi |
| 05/10/03 at 17:42:52 |
| [i] just wanted more people to have a see at this one, so i thought why not "push it up" a litle :)[/i] |
| NS |
| Re: who said what to whom ?! |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 05/10/03 at 20:08:29 |
| so, are you a fundamentalist? |
| Re: who said what to whom ?! |
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| Chris |
| 05/11/03 at 10:51:45 |
| Probabully a good thing I did not read that before friday ;) I can't grow a beard (wrong genes) so I guess i'm not a fundamentalist Chris |
| Re: who said what to whom ?! |
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| Nomi |
| 05/13/03 at 17:36:33 |
| [quote] I can't grow a beard (wrong genes) so I guess i'm not a fundamentalist [/quote] [slm] Chris, my buddy, my friend..... did u just call me a fundamentalist :P .. hehe just kiddin... but if someone ever call me one for my beard then i'll be proud of being one :) :) |
| Re: who said what to whom ?! |
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| Yasmeena |
| 05/14/03 at 21:43:32 |
| [slm] Is a fundamentalist the same as ultra orthodox or something? The Muslims where I converted to Islam in S.C. are more strict that the ones here at home. Is that kind of what is being talked about. When I was a Christian, a fundamentalist was one who believed that the Bible is the inerrant word of God that has to be followed 100%. Boy was that an ambiguous like of thinking, or so I found out. You CAN"T follow the Torah 100% and believe the teachings of Paul in the New Testament! ??? ??? At least not the way I read them! If believing 100% in the teachings of the Qur'aan and Sunnah makes me an Islamic Fundamentalist, I will gladly wear that label! :) ;) :-) Yasmeena [wlm] |
| Re: who said what to whom ?! |
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| humble_muslim |
| 05/16/03 at 15:01:43 |
| AA Yasmeena, Your last statement reminds me of a t-shirt I once saw which said : "If following the Quran and Sunnah is extremism, then I'm an EXTREMIST". Bottom line is this : the first few verses of Surah Al Baqarah tell us that there are three sorts of people : believers, disbelievers, and the hypocrites. Take your pick about what you want to be from those 3 categories, if it's enough for Allah SWT, it's enough for me. |
| NS |
| Re: who said what to whom ?! |
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| mr-bean |
| 05/16/03 at 16:46:38 |
| [slm] The muslim equivalent to the Christian term of fundamentalist is fanatic. Muslims by definition literally believe in the quran and by and large the hadith. Thus all muslims are fundamentalists. Since this term applies to all muslims whether they eat pork, drink wine or believe in killing Americans because they are Americans, the word fundamentalist isn't very helpful or usefull in differentiating between muslims. A more descriptive/useful description for labeling a person who's views are disturbing, e.g . Bin Laden, etc, is the word fanatic..... A whole host of other adjectives can then be used to differentiate between other muslims. For example i consider some muslims [i] harsh [/i], some muslims [i] lax [/i], and some muslims [i] normal [/i], etc.... I.e. the basic point is: muslims unlike christians don't have this issue about taking the quran literally....because it is much easier to stomach a literal reading of the quran than the bible....so very few people among the people who call themselves muslim have any problem in taking the quran literally. They may have problems with interpretations of certain verses, but very few outright reject certain verses of the quran. [slm] |
| Re: who said what to whom ?! |
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| Raafi |
| 05/19/03 at 07:48:03 |
| [slm]Tale-Carrying, Backbiting and Slander Shaykh Saalih Ibn ’Abdul-’Azeez – hafidthahullaah – says: “About nameemah (tale-carrying): Hudhayfah (radiyallaahu ’anhu) relates, that the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said: “The tale-carrier will never enter Paradise.” [16] And from Ibn ’Abbaas (radiyallaahu ’anhu) who related that the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) passed by two graves and said: “The two inmates of these graves are being punished, but not for any great matter. As for the first, he used spread gossip and carry tales, whilst the other never protected himself from being soiled by his urine.” [17] Thus, tale-carrying is prohibited and is included amongst the great sins. And nameemah (tale-carrying) is: “Conveying the words of some people to others in order to create mischief amongst them.” [18] [19] Shaykh ’Alee Hasan al-Halabee – hafidthahullaah – said: “Tale-carrying is a foul disease; when it enters the heart, it corrupts it, and when the heart is corrupt, the rest of the body becomes corrupt and one’s actions are destroyed. How many people there are today whose evil actions have been made alluring to them by their devils. Such that they think that their deeds are free from blemish! How many there are today who think that tale-carrying is a good and righteous action which they are carrying out! However, these people who move about amongst the worshippers of Allaah – the Most Perfect – spreading mischief, falsehood and leading the hearts astray, then the sincere Muslim should not give them any chance to operate, but should rather turn away from them and keep away from them! This is the least punishment possible for these people. The sickness of tale-carrying only finds place in hearts that are filled with the love of this world, the hearts of those who use the Religion for lowly and despicable ends – and we seek the refuge of Allaah from that.” [20] NOT DISHONOURING THE MUSLIMS: The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said: “Whoever accuses a Believer of something that is not true, then Allaah will make him dwell in the pus flowing from the inhabitants of the Fire, and he will not leave until he retracts from what he has said.” [21] The Prophet (’alayhis-salaatu was-salaam) said: “Do you know who the muflis (bankrupt one) is? The muflis from my Ummah is one who comes on the Day of Judgement having performed Prayer, fasting, and giving zakaat (charity). However, along with all of this, he had abused this person, and slandered that person, eaten the wealth of this person, and unlawfully spilled the blood of that person. These people will take from his good deeds. If, however, his good deeds become exhausted, then their sins will be put upon him and he will be thrown into the Fire.” [22] Shaykh ’Alee Hasan al-Halabee said: “So the lethal plague of backbiting destroys ones good deeds, destroys brotherhood, and destroys ones reward. So the true Muslim does not backbite, nor does he allow backbiting to take place in his presence. So let those people fear Allaah, those whose bodies do not develop and whose souls are not fed, except upon spreading rumours and inventing lies upon the servants of Allaah, claiming, “that this is for the benefit of the da’wah!” How strange! What benefit of the da’wah will be achieved through slandering, backbiting, and mentioning the bad manners of others? Do you think – O backbiter – that you are far removed from defects? O you who can only see the deficiencies of others, do you think that you are free from mistakes? No, rather you are full of deficiencies and the people have tongues.” [23] How does a Muslim Indulge in this sin? 1. by listening to a tale-carrier without the attempt to forbid his evil 2. by believing the tale-carrier 3. by spreading the tale of the tale-carrier The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) has warned his ummah numerous times about this because it is a cause for the Muslims, who should have mercy in their hearts for one another, to split and fight among each other. To demonstrate the abhorrence of being caught indulging in this sin. It was narrated that Ibn Mas'ood said: "We were with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) when a man got up and left. Immediately another man spoke disparagingly of him. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said to him: `Clean between your teeth.' He asked, `Why do I need to clean between my teeth? I have not eaten any meat.' He said, `You have eaten your brother's flesh.'" (saheeh by al-Albaani). It does not take a genius to figure out that the tale-carrier will not come to you and say "I am a tale-carrier and I backbite and gossip." Instead, he will come to you and say something like "I am only warning you of a person's evil and you should stay away from that person." But in actuality, it is he who the world should be warned about. There is a fine line between tale-carrying and warning people of someone's great evil, a subject we should all learn about. Al-Nawawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his commentary on Saheeh Muslim (Sharh Saheeh Muslim): “But gheebah (speaking about a person in his absence) is permissible if it is for some legitimate (shar’i) purpose, which includes six reasons: THE FIRST is complaining about unjust treatment: it is permissible for a person who has been mistreated to complain to the ruler or judge, or other people who have the authority or power to deal with the person who has mistreated him. He can say, So and so mistreated me, or, he did such and such to me. THE SECOND is seeking help to change some evil action, and bring a sinner back to the right path: so he may say to the person who he hopes can help: So and so is doing such and such, so try to stop him, and so on. THE THIRD is seeking a religious ruling or fatwa: whereby a person may say to the Mufti: So and so – or my father, or my brother, or my husband – has treated me unjustly by doing such and such; does he have the right to do that? How can I deal with this and protect myself from his mistreatment? etc. This is permissible in cases of need. It is preferable to say in the case of a man or a husband or a father or a son that someone did such and such [i.e., describe it indirectly], but naming names is permissible, because of the hadeeth of Hind who said (to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him): Abu Sufyan is a stingy man. THE FOURTH is warning the Muslims against some evil: this may take various forms, such as mentioning the faults of narrators, witnesses and authors. This is permissible by scholarly consensus. Indeed, it is obligatory, in order to protect the sharee’ah. It also includes describing faults when one is consulted [about a person, for a serious reason such as business, marriage, etc.], and speaking up if one sees someone buying faulty goods or a slave who steals or commits zina or drinks wine etc. – he should mention that to the would-be purchaser if he does not know about it. This is by way of sincere advice, not to cause harm or offence or corruption. Also, if you see a seeker of knowledge frequently visiting a person who is immoral or who follows innovations, and taking knowledge from him, and you fear that he may be harmed, you must advise him by explaining the situation to him, with the aim of offering sincere advice. If you see a person in a position of authority which he cannot discharge properly because he is not qualified for it or because he is corrupt, you should tell whoever has authority over him and explain what he is really like so that he will not be deceived by him and so that he will discipline him – this is not gheebah, and it is obligatory to put things right. THE FIFTH is if a person is openly committing immoral deeds or following bid’ah: such as drinking wine, confiscating people’s property unlawfully, collecting extortionate taxes, being in charge of illegal activities, cutting the beard, etc. It is permissible to speak of what he is doing openly, but it is not permissible to speak of other things except for another reason. THE SIXTH is for the purposes of identification: if a person is known by a nickname such as al-A’mash (rheumy-eyed), al-A’raj (lame), al-Azraq (blue), al-Qaseer (short), al-A’ma (blind), al-Aqta’ (missing a limb) etc., this is permissible for purposes of identification, but it is haram to use such names for the purpose of belittling a person, and if it is possible to identify them by using other words, this is better. And Allah knows best.” But if there is no useful purpose to be served by speaking about a person, or if the aim is to make funm of him or expose him, this is gheebah and is not permitted. And Allah knows best. [wlm] |
| Re: who said what to whom ?! |
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| Nomi |
| 05/19/03 at 09:08:05 |
| [slm] all, Thanks for the gr8 article Raafi jazakumullah :) |
| CNN the biggest Tale bearer! |
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| Maliha |
| 05/20/03 at 09:22:35 |
| [slm] That article is deep thanks bro :) I think this post points to a deep issue we have amongst Muslims. The whole need to differenciate between ourselves. It irritates me when we get soo caught up in what title we would like to put on a person. There is the "fanatic", "harsh", "lax" blah...there are still others that I didn't even know existed until i visited some websites out there..the "Qutubis" ???, of course the infamous "wahabis", "salafis", and others I can't even remember. As Muslims we are quick to point out that unlike Christianity that is so full of denominations, we are just "one" Ummah. Yet, amongst ourselves we are so quick to jump and write off one of us as [insert label here], so we can quickly dismiss their unfavorable views to us. Another thing that irritates me, is when we "pretend" to be "intelligent". Watching the zionist/capitalist/oppressive media outlets such as CNN and other cohorts and using their same Labels to denounce our brothers and sisters. Muslims are quick to denounce eachother as "terrorists", "cowardly", etc...without looking into a host of other variables that exist. Of course *we* are the *good* Muslims, we sit in the warm comforts of our homes, live on the luxurious laps of good ole US, UK, etc...So we can so connivingly play up to both sides of the card. It's disgusting. I am not getting into a debate about what "particular" Muslim figure out there is good or bad..but in my opinion we tend to all too quickly swallow many of the lies fed to us, to justify our *own* apathy and lack of backbones. I am sorry if I offended anyone...Just needed to get that off my chest. Sis, Maliha [wlm] |
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