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msa and freshmen

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msa and freshmen
nouha
05/17/03 at 19:34:47
[slm] everybody,

i have a question? :)

mashallah the muslims in our freshmen class at Union college (this past year) were many.  in the beginning of the year, many of them came to meetings/events/etc. however as the year progressed, less and less showed up... i understand that many of them have alot of work and all.... but i heard that some of them are attending drinking parties/etc.

what is wrong with the new freshmen muslims??? we really wanna help them out and get them more involved in our msa.. becuase as many of us grow older and graduate... its those freshmen that are gonna be left to take over MSA (or get rid of it  :'( )

i dont want to see this happen, any suggestions... pls????

wasalam
nouha:)
Re: msa and freshmen
Kathy
05/18/03 at 13:05:56
[slm]

Ha Ha! We came accross a bunch of them in a red van on Friday! They were looking for the masjid but found the dawah center.  We led them to the masjid ...in a different city!

Maybe they are just lost.....
Re: msa and freshmen
Kareema_Abdul-Khab
05/18/03 at 17:23:12
Salaams,
you may wanna try having fun, social events instead of just lectures and events all the time.

the MSA at the uni I'm going to go to in the fall has karaokes, bonfires, potlucks as well as all the events and speakers.    

The social events are of course seperated by gender, the brothers go out to the local gym a lot.

Also, make sure the environment is inviting(ie that they aren't so scared they'll do something wrong and then be reprimanded for it) and that all feel that there is a place in the MSA for them, even if they don't have much Islamic knowledge maybe they're good artists and can make signs, good hosts/hostesses etc.

Maybe appoint one elder to shadow one freshman, the elder showing them the ropes and asking them to show up at meetings and asking why they didn't if they don't show up. Son't become a spy, just let themknow that you're thinking about them, and that you really do care about your bro/sis in Islam.


For the party drinking thing, I don't know what to suggest except maybe some discussion/lectures on death/sin/purification of the soul or stuff like that , and if you don't already have a roomate list or service, try to come up with one so that Muslims can room with each other and maybe be stronger against temptation.
Re: msa and freshmen
theOriginal
05/19/03 at 04:43:06
[slm]

Some people enter university with a certain assumption about the MSA.  And, speaking from personal experience, a lot of the times, the MSA seems very unwelcoming.  In my first year I used to feel completely isolated within the MSA, and I eventually stopped attending their events.  Even at the Jumaa prayers, there was always a divide.  This is what happens to most people, and in a university setting, where everyone is trying themselves out, this can be dangerous.  Anyway, when I was in 2nd year (year of the 9-11 thing), I met one girl who really insisted that I would join.  She would call me up for every event, and really made an effort to make me feel comfortable.  Alhumdulillah.  

I think it is because of her (she graduated this year  :'( ), that many people stayed connected.  Anyway the point is, the MSA needs to be welcoming.  There is a certain attitude amongst Muslims that needs to be dropped.  And no, I'm not bitter, it's just experience speaking.  :)  

Don't be a hater.  (lol)

Wasalaam.
Re: msa and freshmen
Mulla
05/19/03 at 16:08:44
[slm]

I couldnt resist answering this one, Well in College me and a lot of others were busy with this thing and belvie me every year we had to deal with this issue that once the semester starts we had a few brothers usually Pakistanis and some others then slowly they would dwindle down in numbers and we kept looking at them going into other issues.......and we were really worried....

Well one day in my Hebrew class (yes I took hebrew) and my teacher who is a Rabbi and is still alive, he asked me about the MSA (muslic club) population ...and I said well we are only a few who join but there are a lot who dont join on a regualr basis but inshallah....He smiled at me and he said can I suggest you an experiment.......I said why not.......Well I was shocked at what he said and I will shock you people by what happnened next...

Well he said, make a "women" run the MSA....! and make other females as memebers of the MSA administration and keep the number of men to minimum.........

Well, what do u think we did, this is exactly what I did, cause it was college and anthroplogical and psychology was my keen interest including behaviour of public minds..... Thats What I Did.....

We made a sister the president and another one the secretary and one brother as a treasurer...Brothers and Sisters in Islam, I swear in the name of Allah that our membership soared, to heights unknown before, guys flocked to the asr prayers and belive it or not we were  shocked to find that we had Huffaz of Quran in our college and we didnt know they existed...We had mujahed brothers but who would neve step into ur Rooms were now running the show and it became very vibrant.....

Observing this I fell into great depression.....while some people were congratulating and patting each other on the back but deep deep down I was so broken and so distraught that a nation which has so much reality in their system would only unite if we "projected" women to them, cause sister population was still very small but the results of this was so different that it just openened my eyes to strange new dimensions......

Now, lets not get into the fight of if this was right or wrong, or what is wrong with women being in the forefront, but I did realize a lot of things about men folk but this is one way to keep the brothers... i feel a bit stupid saying things in the open this way but brothers and sisters we are all products of the same system and deep deep down we all function like those whom we think we are better off.


Mulla!
Re: msa and freshmen
Danyala
05/19/03 at 16:18:54
[slm]

Mulla, I'm sorry I think i missed the message of your story....you think that

'we are all products of the same system and deep deep down we all function like those whom we think we are better off'

therefore we should copy non-muslim ways??? Maybe I'm mis-reading this???

I know you didnt want to get into a debate whether its right or wrong, but just for the record, i think Islamically the Amir (President) has to be a man. This doesn't mean that women can't be part of the exec committee but the leader should be a man. In my experience at my msa, the girls did tend to be more organised which is why a lot of things got accomplished - but at the end of the day all you need is commitment whether you're male or female. Like the others, I think friendliness is a key thing. People get intimidated and think they have to be 'good' to come into the msa...all you need to show is that you're human too and befriend them rather than make it look like that what they're doing is 'bad' which at the end of the day won't grab anybody's attention.

All the best,

[wlm]

:-*

Re: msa and freshmen
Maliha
05/19/03 at 16:47:22
[slm]
Interesting analysis Mulla.
Danyala the leader of the UMMAH has to be a man, but no one said that leaders of social groups like the MSA can not be a woman. Our MSA had some clause in the constitution saying that the president HAD to lead prayers...well obviously there wasn't much argument there, as no woman could be a president  ::)
Mulla it could be because sisters are friendlier and just have better inter personal skills than brother?  :-* Also, that the *tone* of the organization is set by the leader, if the president is a cool sis 8) rather than a serious, scary bro :o , it tends to set a better vibe for people to want to join and participate.
I don't know just me two cents....
We had a wack MSA...no one wanted to go...nuff said.
Sis,
Maliha :-)
[wlm]
Re: msa and freshmen
Abu_Hamza
05/19/03 at 19:54:06
[slm]

sr. mulla, why do you think putting sisters in the leadership made such a huge impact at your school?  

what changed?

from my own experiences in the msa, i think different situations call for different solutions to solve problems.  if one msa has a membership problem, the way to solve it may be very different from how another msa has successfully solved it.  one msa may need more social events.  another may need more educational events.  depends a lot on the kinds of muslims that form the demographics in the locality.  the same thing goes with who should be in the executive committee.  the best people to get advice from are your own msa alumni, or people who have been involved with your msa for a long time.

but i would still like to know why putting sisters in the executive committee in your area brought such drastic changes?  what happened exactly?

jazaki Allahu khairan.

wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah
05/19/03 at 19:55:36
Abu_Hamza
Re: msa and freshmen
siddiqui
05/19/03 at 20:06:50
[slm]
Ever asked the freshmen what they want? are they being left out? what would they like to do? and maybe you need to have a slot open for the freshmen kn your e board  and when they come in have an election for it or have it as a 2 month rotation to accomodate the freshmen

I didnt have an  MSA as a freshman but when I came in as a grad student.............Ooooops my vice prezzie is looking  ;)

The Moral of the story
1) Fresh men need some extra effort
2) Ask Them for their opinions
3)Ask them (regulalrly not just the first time at intro) what problems are they facing
4) Involve them with the eboard
5)Plan some activities around them like fresh men vs others games or the fresh men take a lead at presenting at the halqa
6)INTRODUCE them to the local masjid and the local mosque community
gives them a sense of belonging btw its not enough to just tell them where the masjid is but take them on a feild trip and introduce them
7)Even if they slip away keep in personal touch and keep on inviting them
8 Pray for their and our hidayah

[quote]sr. mulla, why do you think putting sisters in the leadership made such a huge impact at your school? [/quote]

As far as our MSA is concerned sisters have done a great job and btw our e board is made up of sisters except for one
My ustadh call ist the girls club  :P
[wlm]
05/19/03 at 20:12:01
siddiqui
Re: msa and freshmen
Mulla
05/20/03 at 01:43:49
Sallam!

My dear and respected brothers and sisters........

I really really am ashamed and feel bad deep down by bringing this subject and I will really hate it if someone tried to debate this but as a person who has dealt with MSA's on a global level I still think my experiances are not the most valid daleel for anything but I am sure that in 12 years of academic involvment in student affairs shall enable me to say that.....

the moment we changed the leadership to "female" mode it started bringing other sisters into the group of visitors and this had a direct impact on the males who also started to show up.......

This experiment was done in two ivy league and one non ivy league but still a very good school.......

I am really saying that this was our observation and you can undermine our "practical" observations with your non practical moral advice with out substantial evidence that no this is not right cause such and such factors but Wallahi I swear that brothers are really motivated by sisters taking a step forward.....and the moment we stop sisters or discourage them from actively participating we see a significant drop in attendance of the not so religious muslim brothers and sisters.

Thats all I am saying ,some one did try to disect and attack my statement , which is ok, cause maybe they do not understand the human pschologoy of modern muslim youth who is a product of the western thought yet is trying to find Islam and cannot escape the reality of the power of female and hence thinks that its the way of the kufur but remember that 15 to 20 years of upbringing in the western style of life cannot be washed away in a few years of Islamic lectures.....................................


Mulla!
Re: msa and freshmen
Mujahideen
05/24/03 at 05:08:03
[slm]
I think this is pretty much par for the course in every Muslim organization I experienced it in the MSA – at the beginning of the year everyone has a lot of enthusiasm which quickly wanes and they become bogged down  trying to get an ‘A’ so they get into med school or wherever.

When you leave University and begin working with some of the other organizations within your community you see the same thing – at the beginning of the term for the executive there are many people all with lots of ideas and as the term progresses fewer and fewer of them show up to meetings as they become immersed in the world around them or they become frustrated because they have no idea how to accomplish the loft goals they set out to achieve. Some are busy making money to with make ends meet or to buy a Jag instead of a Corolla. Also you have to understand people join these organizations for many different reasons some have very good intentions while some are there for political reasons – I have been on boards with people in my community who don’t even keep their prayers. Some in the MSA’s join to have something on their resume for employment or for professional collages – it looks good being on the MSA when trying to get into Med School.
[wlm]
Re: msa and freshmen
jannah
05/24/03 at 11:58:59
[slm]

mujahideen did u ever study in syria?? ur email looks familiar?

anyway bro mulla u wrote:

[quote] the moment we changed the leadership to "female" mode it started bringing other sisters into the group of visitors and this had a direct impact on the males who also started to show up.......[/quote]

did u ever study the principle "corrolation does not imply causation" in school, cause it could be any number of things that causes the msa to grow and be more active, not just "males showing up to mack with the females" <---- u seem to be implying this?

first when sisters take over they are on the whole more organized.. they are in general more inclusive, more sisters become involved and participate and that naturally causes more people in general to participate more... u must have noticed sisters don't even go to the bathroom alone.. so of course they'd bring more people into the MSA  (female or male) ;)

if u were the average muslim guy or gal in college that is not really islamically active or knowledgable, what looks more appealing to u? 5 big bros with beards running the msa in a strict/intimidating manner or 4 sisters (2 with hijab, 2 without), 1 bro and all interacting normally.

 
Re: msa and freshmen
Mulla
05/24/03 at 12:34:57
:)

thats all i can say, jannah!

Re: msa and freshmen
siddiqui
05/24/03 at 12:42:11
[slm]
[quote]the principle "corrolation does not imply causation" in school[/quote]

any one heard of the popperian philosophy of causality or any Karl popper fans around?
[wlm]
Re: msa and freshmen
bhaloo
05/24/03 at 13:13:21
[slm]

Jannah called Mulla brother, and Abu Hamza called Mulla sister.  who's right? ???

[quote author=jannah link=board=madrasa;num=1053210887;start=0#11 date=05/24/03 at 11:58:59]
first when sisters take over they are on the whole more organized..
[/quote]

I don't believe that for a minute.  How did you arrive at such a conclusion?  I think its possible there might be some other factors you might not have considered in the equation.  Imagine an MSA meeting  where sisters are planning a conference, here's what we might expect to hear:

Huma:  Sisters we need to plan for the upcoming conference, and we need to figure out when we will have it, where, and who we will invite to speak.
Shazia: Humie, you should invite Sheik Z-man to talk.
Samira: OHMYGAWD!  He has such a cute turban.
Fawzia: I heard he shops at Desis-R-Us.
Sarah: They have a sale there next sunday. 75% off all fall fashions.
Samira: OHMYGAWD!  *faints*
Sarah: So umm like, we can't have the conference then cause like we'd be missing the sale.
Barrella:  Spot on.  But who is going to pay for all of this?
Fawzia: Well my dad said he would give me some extra money at the end of the month for clothes and stuff.
Huma: Chicas, the week after that they have an extra 10% of already reduced prices.
Sarah: I'm having a bad hair day, and I just broke a nail.
Barrella: No I meant the conference.
Fawzia: I thought its free?
Barrella: *sigh*
Shazia:  Holy kabobs!  I could use some new kicks.
Samira: I'm sure we'll think of something, with all the money we are saving at the mall, maybe we can contribute a little.
Barrella: I have a midterm wednesday.
Sarah: Nordstrom's has a 4 hour sale on shoes today, it started 2 hours ago.
Huma: Chicas we've done a lot today, let's reward ourselves with going to the mall and getting some baklava afterwards.

;=================================
Now here is what we might expect to see at a brother's MSA meeting:

Sheikh Abu Hamza: Brothers as you know we have a conference coming up.  Our vision should not be short term, but we should be planning long term.  I have therefore gone ahead and prepared a syllabus of potential conference topics in the coming year along with potential speakers for each conference.  Each conference will focus on a certain aspect of the Islamic sciences with experts in the community speaking on a topic.  There are several fund raising events I have planned including a bake sale, advertising in our local school paper, car washing, and a community dinner.  All of these items are listed in the syllabus, look it over and let me know if you have any concerns.  Remember our focus this year, is increasing participation in the MSA, and increasing knowledge and awareness about Islam.  May Allah (SWT) help and guide us.
Brother Bob: Ameen
Arshad: Alhumdullilah brother, we are blessed to have a brother of your caliber, all praise is due to Allah (SWT).  You have my full support in this endeavor, this is very well thought out and organized, and insha'Allah we'll start to implement it right away.
Asim, Kashif, Uncle Hanif: (in unison):  Vah vah yaar, good job, first class. ;)
Sheikh Abu Hamza:  Jazak Allah khairen.  This meeting is adjourned.

[quote]
they are in general more inclusive, more sisters become involved and participate and that naturally causes more people in general to participate more... u must have noticed sisters don't even go to the bathroom alone.. so of course they'd bring more people into the MSA  (female or male) ;)
[/quote]

True, women in general are social creatures, whereas men are reserved and are usually lacking social skills.

[quote]
if u were the average muslim guy or gal in college that is not really islamically active or knowledgable, what looks more appealing to u? 5 big bros with beards running the msa in a strict/intimidating manner or 4 sisters (2 with hijab, 2 without), 1 bro and all interacting normally.
[/quote]

It depends in how inviting each group is.  If the brothers are having a BBQ and giving out food, I don't know many people that would turn that down. :)
Re: msa and freshmen
se7en
05/25/03 at 01:17:19
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,


[quote]As far as our MSA is concerned sisters have done a great job and btw our e board is made up of sisters except for one
My ustadh call ist the girls club :P [/quote]

If more of the brotha's stepped up and were willing to get more involved,  maybe we wouldn't be the Muslim Sisters Association :P (*cough*hint*cough*)

[quote]I know you didnt want to get into a debate whether its right or wrong, but just for the record, i think Islamically phe Amir (President) has to be a man. This doesn't mean that women can't be part of the exec committee but the leader should be a man.[/quote]

This is not considered to be the case by the vast majority of scholars.  Sis, please take some time and do some research on this insha'Allah.. there are a lot of great articles and resources on the web on this issue.


[quote]Wallahi I swear that brothers are really motivated by sisters taking a step forward.....and the moment we stop sisters or discourage them from actively participating we see a significant drop in attendance of the not so religious muslim brothers and sisters.   [/quote]

Bro Mulla, why do you think this is?


wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah
Re: msa and freshmen
a_Silver_Rose
05/25/03 at 01:34:26
[slm]

well I dont know ...but  someon was tellin me that if more sisters showed up at his masjid (cause I was saying there are many sisters who come to my masjid) he said it would motivate more of the the brothers to come? donno why cause we are girls i guess :P

I told him that their intention should be to go for sake of Allah (swt) not to see girls but he said well that is just a start...a way for them to come

by the way this is what someone told me, not trying to be a 'source of fitnah' here.

05/25/03 at 01:43:08
a_Silver_Rose
Re: msa and freshmen
Barr
05/25/03 at 11:37:41
[slm] warahmatullah :)

[quote]but  someon was tellin me that if more sisters showed up at his masjid (cause I was saying there are many sisters who come to my masjid) he said it would motivate more of the the brothers to come? [/quote]

We can make them come.. but can we make them stay?

I think wot the brothers need are not sisters on the MSA to "entice" them, but good role models and good da'wah fardhiyah (individual/ personal level) amidst all of the other activities, by brothers, for brothers. Afterall,  peer influence is one of the greatest influence during this age.

I think Siddiqui raised a good point of getting them involved, and soliciting their ideas and assistance. I think we need to make them take "ownership" of the MSA, and this will help, inshaAllah.

Personally, I think there must be efforts @ high school level to orientate the hearts and minds of students, before they enter uni.

This was done here, and alhamdulillah, we see that those students who received Islamic input on student activism during A levels would actually, hold on to the leadership roles @ uni, plus, they would be able to do more things, for themselves, inshaAllah.


[quote]Now here is what we might expect to see at a brother's MSA meeting: [/quote]

Sounds like a dictator and his cronies.  :P

Allahu'alam :)
05/25/03 at 11:50:07
Barr
Re: msa and freshmen
nouha
05/26/03 at 15:35:05
[slm]

jazakumulah so much everybody for your inputs and bhaloo... for that HILARIOUS skit LOL  :D ....
inshallah i will bring all these points to my msa to do a good job in recruiting new members.

as barr pointed out ... i do think it should start from the high school level... that could be onbe of the events all MSA's can do.... go to local high schools and talk to thier fellow youngsters. :)

wasalam
nouha:)


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