A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| What would make you leave America? |
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| mr-bean |
| 05/27/03 at 07:33:06 |
| [slm] This is a serious question. What would make you leave the US? I don't live in the US anymore even though I spent virtually my whole life there. And I am not eager to go back. It simply seems a very scary place for muslims. For example, read the article from the NYtimes I posted in the Ummah folder. Deeply embedded in my thought process is how America has always been a deeply insular and jingoistic country. Witness the attitude toward blacks, american indians, jews and the Japanese during WWII. Do all of you really believe that something similar to the japanese internment won't happen in the future? What happens if there is a nuclear explosion? Did you see the recent hit series 24? They used to lynch black people 40 years ago in America. What makes everybody so certain that they won't do it to muslims in America in the next 40 years? I don't wanna be like the Jews of Nazi germany -- a passive people while being led to slaughter.....and so I would prefer to live in very multi-cultural London than anywhere in America. This is a sad commentary on what was once the most open-minded country on planet Earth. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Kathy |
| 05/27/03 at 08:55:24 |
| [slm] The only reason I would leave is to go somewhere for my son to become affluent in Arabic and where it is safe for me. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| theOriginal |
| 05/27/03 at 09:11:50 |
| [slm] I have been thinking about this. There are two sides to American society. 1) The maddening ignorance. 2) The opportunity. In answer to your question, if I did live in the US, then the thing that would make me live the US, would be the disintegration of #2. And yes, this is beginning to occur. Whether or not this is feasible for most people, is an underlying issue that must be kept in mind. However, Muslims need to be internally revolutionized, and we need to stop blaming others one second, and then counting on the same people the next second. As Muslims we should stop living in a fantasy world where things just happen for the better. We need to acknowledge that we are facing a social problem, especially now, in a post-9/11 society. Given our moral boundaries, we need to be comfortable in the changes we can make, because we CAN make them. A while back, I read an article on Jews in America in the 70s (or was it the 60s?)...when many of the crimes being committed in metropolitan areas were directly caused by Jewish youth. The entire American jewish community decided that this had to stop, since the long-term effects of such a reputation and such a social culture would lead to the destruction of their entire people. And so, they set curfews for their youth, so that no Jews would be seen after a certain hour on the streets. This was enforced at every level: individual, home, community, town, state, country. Whether or not this is true is irrelevant. The point is that as Muslims we need to fix ourselves from within in order to succeed. We can make the American judicial system work in our favor, the media seek our voice, etc. But we need to start now. Else we might just as well set ourselves packing. Wasalaam. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 05/27/03 at 10:22:55 |
| if we lost monday night football i would leave |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Dawn |
| 05/27/03 at 14:43:37 |
| [slm] A swiss husband!!!! ;D ;D But on a more serious note, I am not sure "leaving" for reasons such as "the maddening ignorance" is something I would consider, even if I had a place to go. (Physical safety, or the lack thereof, is another issue entirely. And let us not forget that there are plenty of Muslims who are born and raised in the U.S. and hold no other passports, and, umm, aren't married to foreign nationals.) Perhaps it is the very small "idealist" streak in me (yes, it is quite small -- most of the rest of me is very much a realist), but in this regard my only thought is if one Muslim leaves, there is one less Muslim "light" to illuminate the "darkness" of that ignorance. Less "light" = more "darkness". It's rather a simple analogy, I realize, and there are certainly holes, but it gets at the basic idea. And for me personally, I would not want to be responsible for contributing to that increasing "darkness". Just my thoughts. |
| 05/27/03 at 14:44:55 |
| Dawn |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Ameeraana |
| 05/27/03 at 19:34:22 |
| [slm] Although I already have marriage plans to move to UAE--I had been thinking about leaving before. I wanted so bad to move to an Islamic country--which if any Muslim were to migrate I think would be best to move to an Islamic country. But, I don't really know if any country is truly Islamic anymore. Especially the ones who are supposed to set the biggest examples of Islam--the Middle East. Not because they are superior because they are Arabs or anything like that, but it is where the religion started, it is where Prophet Muhammad [saw] fought with such might along with many others who gave their lives to spread the truth and gain our freedom and it is also home to the holiest site for us. They have gained such wealth it is amazing!! And yet the money does not seem to be spent on what will move Muslims into a better, more powerful future. The wealth they own would end poverty amongst Muslims but this is only a dream within another dream that it will happen. The Arab youth that are coming to the U.S. to study are horrible role-models of Muslims. They will proudly tall anyone they are Muslim and yet they really do treat (ok not all--but it happens far too often) non-Arab Muslims--especially the poorer ones--as sencond class. I really wonder if many Muslims started emigrating to the Middle-Eastern countries if most of them would feel warm open arms or experience coldness and hostility and be treated as if not the equal to the Arabs. I know I am sounding harsh, but I really do feel as if many Arab Muslims feel superior to non-Arab Muslims. Is it just me??? I would think some European countries would have more open-minded communities towards Muslims than the U.S. right now. About the U.S.--sometimes I really do wonder if Islam will grow so big in the U.S. that persecution will become outrageous. I wonder also if Muslims will end up being able to create positive relations in politics. My guess is, so long as there is no peace in Palestine and its Occupied Territories, I don't think so. But who knows? Maybe the American public will start to see the truth and popular opinion will help us. oooooh I just keep on rambling on!!! I better quit and make the rest short--sorry guys... just got into too deep of thought. So, all in all, right now, not much would make me leave the U.S. except of course, my marriage plans, but I think it is important that we leave a good impression of Islam here in the U.S. and help it grow even more. So I hope there won't be a mass-emigration from here. But, if it gets worse, I would definitely recommend England, France, Spain... . and inshallah one day there will come a time when there will come one Khalifah where we can all join as one under him??? Or are we well on our way to the Day of Judgement already? ... sorry if I strayed waaaay off the topic LOL :) Ameera |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Sunnah |
| 05/27/03 at 20:19:53 |
| [quote author=Ameera link=board=bebzi;num=1054031586;start=0#5 date=05/27/03 at 19:34:22] [slm] But, I don't really know if any country is truly Islamic anymore. Especially the ones who are supposed to set the biggest examples of Islam--the Middle East. Not because they are superior because they are Arabs or anything like that, but it is where the religion started, it is where Prophet Muhammad [saw] fought with such might along with many others who gave their lives to spread the truth and gain our freedom and it is also home to the holiest site for us. They have gained such wealth it is amazing!! And yet the money does not seem to be spent on what will move Muslims into a better, more powerful future. The wealth they own would end poverty amongst Muslims but this is only a dream within another dream that it will happen. The Arab youth that are coming to the U.S. to study are horrible role-models of Muslims. They will proudly tell anyone they are Muslim and yet they really do treat (ok not all--but it happens far too often) non-Arab Muslims--especially the poorer ones--as sencond class. Ameera[/quote] [slm] Ya Allah......... sis you just wrote what exactly on my mind!! its not even funny!! wow. subhanallah... Yes sis, its so true... and whats also true that arabs don't treat muslims from other countries right. i know some poor ppl from a country who go to middle east ( cuz they can only afford that visa) via working visa from a business person or some boss of Middle eastern countries, like Qatar, Saudi...etc.!!! they are always terrible to those emigrants!! i wonder if you guys seen that 20/20 show by Barbra Walter ( i think i got it right). they showed how workers from other countries were so badly in the middle eastern countries. its so sad, how our own brothers are so selfish and mean and heartless and bad!!!! but ofcourse a good muslim will never do that! Alas! how we have so less good muslim! Alas how we forgot to be kind and to follow the way our beloved Prophet [saw] ( remember the Sunnah) :( MUSLIM PLEASE BE KIND TO UR FELLOW BROTHERS!! sorry to be off topic. sorry again... yeah...may be i would like to leave this country one day...but only to go to a place like "Jannah" to a real muslim country!!! wasalaam p.s. don't get me wrong...i don't dislike all arabs. i love some arab ppl, like my sis ameera said...i admire them a lot...but only the real good muslim arab.... i am even planning to marry ;) an arab (religious one inshallah), if my parents allow me to. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 05/27/03 at 22:05:12 |
| Hmm, aren't these two contradictory statements? [quote author=mr-bean link=board=bebzi;num=1054031586;start=0#0 date=05/27/03 at 07:33:06] America has always been a deeply insular and jingoistic country.[/quote] and ... [quote author=mr-bean link=board=bebzi;num=1054031586;start=0#0 date=05/27/03 at 07:33:06] America ... was once the most open-minded country on planet Earth. [/quote] |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| bhaloo |
| 05/28/03 at 01:46:56 |
| [slm] The whole job situation is very sad in America. I hear about so many people getting layed off, and all the hi-tech jobs are going away and jobs are disappearing overseas to china as big businesses are shifting manufacturing to overseas facilities. Its terrible. Although, people that can offer a service are doing really well though, like real estate agents, landscapers, auto detailing, etc. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| mr-bean |
| 05/28/03 at 09:35:50 |
| [quote author=Abu_Hamza link=board=bebzi;num=1054031586;start=0#7 date=05/27/03 at 22:05:12] Hmm, aren't these two contradictory statements? [/quote] a bit of a an oxymoron....ain't it?! i wondered if anybody would notice that....and yeah despite the self-contradiction that's how America used to be....very insular, jingoistic and yet still open-minded to things they don't understand -- cuz they assume that everybody is like em and wants what they want.....:) american people are still one of the kindest people on the face of the earth.....and muslim americans -- they are the coolest!! just kidding :) [slm] |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Yasmeena |
| 05/28/03 at 13:17:52 |
| [slm] Do you have any suggestions? Give me a list of better places to live! ;) I was born a US citizen 40 some years ago, high side. My Da always taught me to think, analyze and question everything. He wasn't too happy when that maxim made me question HIS Christianity, but thats beside the point. At 14, while taking a US goverment class in Jr. High, I began to question certain practices of it. If we started out as a "Republic" after a revolution, how did we become a "democracy"?? The two aren't always compatable. Da answered my concerns and, to my mother's frustration, I became what we used to call "peace-nik" and/or "flowerchild" in the late 60's. Da's commanding officer wasn't happy and asked me, in his office, if I wanted to get my dad in trouble. Paranoia reigns in the military, as we have seen lately. I am still of the same mind as I was back then, but my actions are tempered by Islam. I still talk with my hubby about my frustrations over the ambiguity of what the government says and what it does. We are of like minds on this. Until I said that I want to move and when he asked me to what state and my answer was, "Not state but country." I am an Irish/Scot (maybe Celt is more to the point) with Native American mixed in somewhere along with Swede. Heinz-57!! Mix 3/4 Irish and Iriquoian Indian and you end up with a bad tempered muslimah. [Okay Madina Wrestler - I'm ready for the jab. Let it fly!] Allah ta'ala has been helping me with this, Masha Allah!!! Anyway!! I hope this made sense as to the "why". The "where" is the question now. Yasmeena [wlm] |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| BroHanif |
| 05/29/03 at 20:39:13 |
| Salaams, hmmm[quote]I am an Irish/Scot (maybe Celt is more to the point) with Native American mixed in somewhere along with Swede. Heinz-57!! Mix 3/4 Irish and Iriquoian Indian and you end up with a bad tempered muslimah. [Okay Madina Wrestler - I'm ready for the jab. Let it fly!] [/quote] errr hello I'm a bit lost. Sis Yasmeena care to back track a little ? Nah in all seriousness I think the time is coming soon when we will be faced with migration. I don't really feel comfortable in the west, I'm just sickened by what goes on. For example, the sinning that goes on, from soft porn mags like FHM/Maxim to shows where they have no hayaa or shame like Big Brother or reality TV, sex has become rampant its now used to sell products from lip gloss to cars. Killing is on the increase, people are killed for no reason whatsoever, crime is on a spree. The liars hold posts and convince people of WMD's and the pile of poo that goes with it. I was thinking the other day that just think how fast does time go by no sooner has the sun beamed its light into the room the day is already approaching at its end. As the moon gives off its last light a new day is starting. Time is flying isn't this one of the minor signs of the last hour. In short the only pace I've really felt safe in the world are Macca and Medina. Whether I end up there or not I don't know. But one thing is for sure times are gonna get harder for Muslims wherever they may be, in the East or the West. Salaams, Hanif |
| NS |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 05/29/03 at 22:57:22 |
| [slm] [color=Blue][i]I was born and raised in USA although ever since I was baby I have been going back and forth (like every 2 yrs) to Pakistan. I love this country, This is where I grew up and learned so much... I have met the most sweetest and open minded people here. This is the country where I learned more about my religion than my cousins even know in Pakistan (a 'muslim' country). (where many timz there the Qur'an is just used to decorate the shelf) altho Alhumdulilah many more people are starting to read the meanings and leaving the culture which contradicts w/ Islamic teachings. This country I agree has many social problems but nowadays anywhere you go is getting very messed up. (altho not as much as here) Wish they would get the good (like being more open minded and understanding) (one proof is the millinons of people who convert) from the west instead of the bad... This reminded me the poem in jannah's list of poems 'desh kai halath' (state of my country) (very inspring/also hit me hard... im crzy bout it so plz check it out if you havent) Many people not only come here for opportunites (they do) but they also come here b/c they want to get away from the corruptness of their government and the poverty and yes the 'maddening ignorance' over there. I know people who have come here and dont want to go back to their home country just because the people are not understanding and are ignorant. When we were in one 'unity' gathering I remember one man saying that from watching tv in his homecountry he thought the people in america would be very mean. he was surprised to see the opposite. he said ' people who dont even know you in the streets will smile and say hi and ask how you are' the 'maddeniing ignorance' here? I dont know ... I see maddening ignorance everywhere and Alhumdulilah I also see openmindedness everywhere...altho I do think Americans more easily become slaves of media/drugs/peers, ect. I also think there is more stress in America (one reason I would like to leave) Another reason that would make me leave is that if I get married and my hubbs lives in a diff country or if my hubbs had to move b/c of job. Lastly because I really love and miss my relatives in Pakistan. It is like my second home and I love the people there just as I love the people in America. .. or maybe just to have the experience of actually living (more than 6 months) in a diff country..or to simply have a change...[/i][/color] |
| 05/30/03 at 16:24:01 |
| a_Silver_Rose |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Emerald |
| 05/30/03 at 00:38:00 |
| In all honesty I don't feel the security here as I did before 9-11. After that incident I saw a completely different side of the US. Somehow I feel it tries to hide behind the ideal image it feeds to people which in reality doesn't exist. Where is the freedom of speech if you cannot say and do what you believe in without being sterotyped a terrorist out of ignorance taught by the media? I always use the Dixie Chicks as an example. They got bashed big time for speaking their mind. What the media was trying to do was basically tell them to shut up or else they were going to ruin their careers! Secondly, what about the racial profiling? On the other hand, the US has given us so much. The opportunity to practice our faith freely, to work and earn a living, and a better chance to give our children more than they might have had somewhere else. But then again, (I'll give the example of Syria because Im Syrian) people who I've spoken to that are from Syria say there is great poverty in the homeland but they're living HAPPY lives. So about your question, I have no definite answer. It's like a yo-yo with me. Sometimes I hate it here and sometimes I love it. But I do know one thing for sure - if my family left, I'm sure to follow. I guess that's the answer. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| siddiqui |
| 05/30/03 at 01:04:55 |
| [slm] Ill stay till Allah swt has kept my Rizq here and move on (the cuaz wouldnt really matter matter then right ;) if it is planned/forced) when its over [wlm] |
| 05/30/03 at 11:27:36 |
| siddiqui |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Anonymous |
| 05/31/03 at 02:42:11 |
| Do you have any suggestions? Give me a list of better places to live! Yasmeena I second that!!!!!!!! Da's commanding officer wasn't happy and asked me, in his office, if I wanted to get my dad in trouble. Paranoia reigns in the military, as we have seen lately. I second that also. As a military wife, oh yes, compliance through scare tactics. I know this one first hand. Wrong or right they love that power trip and control. Can anyone offer a list of better places to live and why? My husband and I were actually considering Canada. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Yasmeena |
| 05/31/03 at 21:44:39 |
| [slm] [quote author=Madina Wrestler link=board=bebzi;num=1054031586;start=0#11 date=05/29/03 at 20:39:13]Salaams, errr hello I'm a bit lost. Sis Yasmeena care to back track a little ? [/quote] Sorry about that if you took offense. I was referring to a couple of comments you have made, probably in joking - like mine was, about the bad temperedness of sisters. For the most part I agreed with the comments you had made as far as I am concerned. I am bad tempered and that is one of the sins I deal with every day. Yasmeena [wlm] |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Anonymous |
| 06/01/03 at 03:44:17 |
| Many, many reasons why this sister left the country. The article is a little strong but has some valid points. May Allah guide us all - aameen. Why I Am Never Going Back To America May 10, 2003 By Zeba Khan, US Citizen A Thoughtful Article By A Sister For The Parents In America. I may be an American citizen, but that's not my fault. I ask the reader to please forgive me that much and continue with the rest of the article. As a consequence of having been born, raised, and college educated in the States, I have gora-saab Urdu, a severe allergy to mosquito bites and a blue passport, but again, that's not my fault. Often at parties, mostly at weddings, people (with sons my age who eat, drink, and dream in red, white and blue) will slyly ask whether or not I have plans of returning. I say no, not at all, not unless pigs fly, hell freezes over, and the Cubs win the World Series, all on the same day. Then they ask me why, and I can never answer them. I'm ashamed to, and the reason why is because the true nature of American society is obscene, and Islamic Taboos are often rites of Passage back in God Bless America. The sins that Americans proudly broadcast are so fahosh (obscene!) that I cannot mention them in mixed company in more than a whisper. But luckily I can type though, and here, dear readers, dear sly aunties, dear people who think I'm insane, is why I'm never going back to the US. America is famous for turning out highly qualified doctors and engineers, and I will not insult their universities and colleges. The Ivy League universities offer the best education that money can buy...in an environment where 90% of all on-campus rape cases are linked to alcohol and approximately 240,000 to 360,000 of the nation's 12 million current undergraduates will ultimately die from alcohol-related causes. (Stats from SAMHSA, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration website) But like I said, I'm not going to slander institutions where illicit affairs betweens professors and students are common enough to be part of campus life. It's a lovely collegiate society where emergency phones with blue light beacons are installed every 100 or so feet on college grounds to curb crime and sexual assault. I said I wouldn't slander the colleges, and I'm not. To slander something is to lie, to demean it with incorrect information, and I'm doing neither. Everything I've mentioned it true blue (and white, and red) and 100% certifiable by anyone who has been to college in any major city like Chicago. Enough about college, let's go further back to public high school. I'll tell you no lies here, either. The state of Illinois has mandated a health and safety class for all students, and the class is taught to grade 9. The safety part of the class curriculum includes driver's education. The health part of the class involves skin care, fitness, how to use a condom, how to recognize transmitted diseases in your sexual partner and why, if you decide you're a homosexual; it's ok to feel that way. I was blessed, truly blessed by Allah that I was absent the day that my teacher showed a live video of a woman giving birth, the natural way, in the nude, in stirrups. This all-natural, all-nude video was shown in front of my mixed 9th grade class, it was shown to both the boys and the girls at the same time. I heard horror stories the next day from my fellow miserable Muslimahs. I, and hundreds of thousands of other young Muslims who were unfortunate enough to be educated in the US, was taught that being gay (Hijra!) is quite normal. Never mind the two girls sitting outside the class window kissing each other with open mouths - they're exercising their right of choice. Homosexuality is not a deviation, it's a lifestyle, and a rather trendy one at that. Hooray for gay-rights and the yearly gay-pride parades held in most major cities of the US. If you're fortunate enough not to know what a gay-pride parade is, allow me to ruin your day. It's a procession of cars, decorated floats, dancers, near-naked hijras and brainwashed heterosexuals who are proud to be part of a sin so severe that it caused the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Back to school, if your son or daughter needs a condom so that they can have a little fun on their lunch break, they don't need to be ashamed. They can just go to the school counselor's office and get one from her, for free. If any of the students want to exercise the freedom that the American forefathers fought and died for, and engage in some pre-marital relations without any of the consequences, then there are hundreds of NGO's to help them with birth control, adoption, or abortion, without ever letting the parents know what's going on. I'm being quite bay-sharam, I know, but how else can I explain these things? How else can I tell you that high-school in Chicago, a very average place, is a beer-drinking, pot-smoking, hormonally charged orgy where young girls and boys play merry-go-round with their sexual partners. Oh, and there's very high-quality biology, chemistry and physics in there somewhere too. If you think that my merely mentioning this is outrageous, then what do you think of the unfortunate Pakistanis and Muslims who study this as part of school curriculum and are taught to practice these things in their daily life? It's not their fault they're subjected to such an immoral brainwashing, and that's why I call them (and myself) unfortunate instead of guilty. These poor 9th graders (aged 14-15 on average) did not chose to be born in a society where talk is cheap, love is free, and God is banned from public schools. Yes, God is officially banned in public schools. Prayer in school is quite a controversial issue back over there in God Bless America. Religion is a private affair, and much like STD's, you're supposed to keep them to yourself. The American educational assault goes farther than immorality; it extends into the illogical and absurd. Did you know that our ancestors were monkeys? What? You say that you knew your ancestors, and though one of your uncles had a low forehead, he was hardly simian? You may also say that the first man was Prophet Adam, peace and blessings be upon him, and he was no monkey. You know this because God said so, not just in Islam but in all three major religions of the world, and plus evolution has been deemed impossible by a huge but muffled community of scientists. (Read Evolution Deceit: The Scientific Collapse of Darwinism... by Harun Yahya) If you make the mistake of expressing your religious beliefs in class, you will be laughed out of class and scolded when you come eventually come back. Teacher:(laughing with cocky attitude further bolstered by authority and his/her own brainwashing) "Silly, backwards, fundamentalist student, how foolish can you be to believe in God? What, have you ever seen God? Look around, I don't see anything remotely worship-able in the universe, do you?" Student:(muttering under breath to avoid being failed for bad behavior) "Well teacher, come to think of it, when I look around I can't see radio waves, microbes, heat, radiation, wind, or even your brain for that matter..." The secular American scientific community boasts of its superior knowledge, but if you went by the same empirical logic that they use to ignore God (seeing is believing) then they don't have any brains, either. Both belief in God and belief in your teacher's brain can only be confirmed by sight apparently, and since both cases involve death to do so, (dying to see God, killing your teacher and extracting his brain...) then the issue stays mostly unresolved in circles who refuse to use higher reasoning. I must stop here and give credit to a few very intelligent, very religious college professors that I had. For example, Dr. P. Lancki, a religious Christian and a professor of Microbiology. During a long conversation about religion, science and society at large, Dr.Lancki told me with wonder in her eyes how it was impossible for a single cell, miraculous in function and complex in design, to have been created by accident or random events. Not one single cell could be produced through the methods that educators teach to students in the US; evolution, but Dr.Lancki is forbidden to teach that in her class. "God," one of her coworkers told her, "...died with the dinosaurs. Man doesn't need religion anymore." Times change. Where God was once called on sincerely to bless America, He is now used only for purposes of pro-war propaganda and occasionally brought up to take accountability off the shoulders of criminals. "I'm a sociopath murderer, and God made me this way! I'm gay! And God made me this way! I'm a pedophile, and God made me this way!" Religion in American is approached in a way that's comical if it wasn't so idiotic. In accordance with typical non-judgmental morality, one religion is no better than the next, and all religions take a back-seat to freedom. You may not believe that homosexuality is good, but in America you believe that people should be free to practice homosexuality if they like. Never mind that you believe it is wrong, if you say so in public then you are labeled as intolerant, homophobic, a closet- queer, and of course, a bigot. Bigots get fired by their employers for being closed-minded, but gays get free health-insurance from their employers for the same-sex partner they happen to be living with at the moment. To move back to America would be to subject my future children to a thorough brainwashing, regardless of how well I tried to prevent it. When filth is broadcast on TV, sung about on the radio, advertised on the internet, and taught in school, how can you even remotely hope to fight it? Whatever you teach you children between breakfast and school, school and soccer practice, soccer practice and dinner is untaught a thousand times over once the child leaves home. True, there are some Muslims who come out of America with basically sound minds and characters, but for every sound mind there are 100 corrupt ones who live with their Christian boy-friends, blame God for homosexuality, use the Masjid as a meat-market for dating and flirting, and join organizations like the Al-Fateha group. Al-Fateha sounds holy enough from where you're sitting, I'm sure, but it's actually an organization of homosexual Muslims in the US and Canada. The American society is a system of thinly veiled chaos, and ever so often the veil is lifted. In New York, currently the world's most famous city, the Puerto Rican National Day Parade was one such example. In broad daylight, buzzed on alcohol and under the cover of mob-action, two years ago a group of over 50 young men traveled downtown New York assaulting women. Police stood idly by as women were stripped naked, sexually assaulted, sprayed with liquor and raped in the streets on New York. Did darkness hides the mob from the police? No, it was mid-afternoon. Were the men stopped right away? No, they rampaged for over three hours. This is American society, this is what happens to a people who do not believe in God, whose conduct depends on whether or not anyone will catch them if they do anything wrong. There is no humility or fear of Divine Retribution to keep men acting as men, there is only fear of the police. And when the police invisible or ineffectual, the men become rapists, murderers, barbarians and savages. A funny comparison exists between Karachi and New York, two major cities. In Karachi, when the electricity goes out, children play chupan-chupai or cricket in the streets. In New York, when the lights go out, women are assaulted, people are robbed, and stores are looted. This is not because the electric gates of the prisons have opened, releasing all of the criminals. No, this is because the electric lights and eyes of the police have gone blind, and in the cover of darkness, the common New Yorker becomes a common criminal. I'm not nuts you know, I'm just honest. You can't get me to go back to America, not for money, not for fame, not even under the flimsy pretense of doing Dawah in America. I'm not going to lie to myself and say that living in America is Dawah, because I can't hide that my tax dollars pay Israeli settlers $10,000 a year, per family member, to occupy Palestine and to kill the Ummah I profess to be a part of. A white-picket fence and a two car garage in the suburbs is not Dawah, its greed. Sending your children to the best schools is not Dawah, its opportunism, its taking advantage of a system built on the backs of third-world countries and dead Muslims. Thousands of Afghanis have died to put cheaper gas in your sports utility vehicle, thousands of Iraqis died to keep your car running for less money, your heating bills down, and your salary higher. Thousands of Palestinians have been shot with bullets that your tax-dollars bought and thousand more will if you stay and become the ideal immigrant. To be the tax-paying, flag-waving, English speaking Desi who is repulsed by 'backwards' notions of religion, and sends your children to get a good education at a Catholic school, is to be the perfectly assimilated, perfectly absorbed hypocrite. How convenient it is for a Muslim to condemn America for its tyranny, but take no action against it at all. It's like a shepherd that shares a cave with wolves who kill his own sheep, but stays because the cave is warm and the mutton is free. The shepherd stays with the wolves under the pretense of doing Dawah to the wolves. He hopes that by living with the wolves, the wolves will feel sympathy for the shepherd, they will better understand him, and maybe not kill his sheep anymore. How very convenient, very illogical, and very beneficial for the shepherd! Never mind that it's wrong, just remember that the cave is warm and the mutton is free, the streets are clean, the skyscrapers are shiny, and your children are being given quality wolf-education and eating quality mutton from your murdered sheep. Dear ALL, I would recommend that you set your sights on some other Amreekan Palat, I may move a hundred times in my life, but never back to the country whose ruler has reinstated the crusades. Never to the land where a 67 year old Afghani Imam is in camp x-ray for giving Mujahideen dry bread crusts. Never to a land where my own Muslim brothers are collateral damage. I swear by Allah, I will never make that mistake again. NEVER. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Tesseract |
| 06/01/03 at 21:32:12 |
| Assalamu 'alaikum, [quote]I, and hundreds of thousands of other young Muslims who were unfortunate enough to be educated in the US, was taught that being gay (Hijra!) is quite normal. [/quote] Just to correct a little bit of ur translation. Gay is homosexual, and Hijra is hermaphrodite i-e neither male nor female. [quote]Al-Fateha sounds holy enough from where you're sitting, I'm sure, but it's actually an organization of homosexual Muslims in the US and Canada.[/quote] This is disturbing. Anybody knows about this organization? Wassalam. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| bhaloo |
| 06/01/03 at 21:42:56 |
| [slm] [quote author=Bulwark of Islam link=board=bebzi;num=1054031586;start=15#18 date=06/01/03 at 21:32:12] This is disturbing. Anybody knows about this organization? Wassalam. [/quote] Yes, it is very disturbing. From what I have heard, the guy was dumped by his fiancee, devastated he became like this and started this deviant organization. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Anonymous |
| 06/02/03 at 00:14:34 |
| I'd say that last anon post was not only a bit strong but it may give many the wrong inpression. Where I come from this is not the case at all. A lot of what this young woman put up with was her parents choice. It was not Americas fault. People have choices here. Yes sex education is taught in our schools but in my years and years later in my childrens years (in a different state) a letter asking for consent for a child to take such a class was always sent home. Parents are asked to a parents meeting prior to that class to review the contents of such a class. I did go and refused to allow my children to go. It was my choice. 1) I feel that sex education is the parents responsability not the schools and 2) homosexualility is not an alternative lifestlye it is plain flat out wrong. Public displays (homosexual or normal) were not allowed in my schools nor my childrens school. It was cause for disaplinary action. Being robbed, raped and all, that is also the peoples choice cause we have the freedom of voting an official in and demanding harsher penaties. I am very thankful that I live in a country where I have many choices. 1) The choice to vote someone out of office should they not live up to my standards 2) The choice to move to another city or state if I do not like the schools the crime or the neighbors. And if I don't like the schools I have the choice to A) home teach B) change schools or C) Make more money and put them in a private school. 3) I can work where I want to and can quit to do better if I choice to. 4) I can start my own business and many do, many are immigrints ( I know I spelled that wrong) and own stores, motels, cleaners, cooperate type businesses. Heck half my town is owned by people who were not born here in the US. But are hard workers like me. Muslims in my town are treated with respect and welcomed. As is any other hard working, law abiding person. I am not saying they have not had something hateful ever said or done to them. But I know many Non-Muslims that have had something hateful said or done to them too. And don't even use the excuse about people not being able to afford to move or change something. Sorry with my past that is just not a valid excuse. I married at 15, had 2 children at 16 and 17, was divorced by 20 and had an 8th grade education (I only went to 4 months of hight school) came from a wealfare mother. A disfunctional family. But I got my GED, I raised my children and was only on welfare 6 months out of 14 years and only due to an injury. I started a business and make more in one week than some make in a month. I am not bragging I am a very hard worker and driven to succeed. My children have never been in trouble with the law, they are not alcholics, druggies and have very good jobs and take good care of their families. All that from a single mother with no education!!!!!!!! In my town we do not allow people to strip in public and as to hate crimes? I don't think so, cause if it is brought to the polices attention the police in my town don't take to kindly to trouble makers. I am truly sorry this siter had to experience many of these things but much of it was her parents choice. If you are not from my country or have never been here, yes what Anon said does happen unfortunatly, but not all America is like this. And I read everyday of crime in other countries also. I know a country where spanking was forbidden many many years ago and it wasn't America. I know there are many countries today where you cannot practice your religon freely, you cannot work where you want to and some you cannot go to school if they wanted to, let alone change schools. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Tesseract |
| 06/02/03 at 00:31:05 |
| Assalamu 'alaikum, Several things can make me leave America: 1- First of all, if there is anything that would hinder the practicing of my deen, a part of which is Da'wah as well ( although I know that Da'wah is not obligatory on every individual Muslim). 2- If I have a better opportunity to learn my deen somewhere else, which ofcourse there are many like Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, even my own country Pakistan (but I'll always keep Pakistan as last option for several reasons). 3- A better quality of life. Not that I want to buy a mansion and a porsche, but better quality of life for me is that u enjoy the basic necessities of life even in a small income. 4- Finally, that my "Earning and Learning (i-e knowledge, both the religious and the professional)" can benefit the ummah in other places better than it can here. We plan, and He (swt) plans, and He is the Best of the planners. Wassalam. |
| 06/02/03 at 00:34:39 |
| Tesseract |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| bhaloo |
| 06/02/03 at 00:42:59 |
| [slm] Brother Bulwark of Islam, care to share your reasons why you wouldn't return to Pakistan? It wouldn't have anything to do with the cuisine in Karachi would it? ;) |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Caraj |
| 06/02/03 at 01:10:41 |
| [quote author=Bulwark of Islam link=board=bebzi;num=1054031586;start=15#21 date=06/02/03 at 00:31:05]Assalamu 'alaikum, 1- First of all, if there is anything that would hinder the practicing of my deen, a part of which is Da'wah as well ( although I know that Da'wah is not obligatory on every individual Muslim). Wassalam.[/quote] You folks have me going back and forth between FAQ's and the posts :D what is Da'wah? ??? I didn't see that one on the list. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 06/02/03 at 01:23:20 |
| I have been here too long, i am knowing way too many of these terms. Caraj, i think it is kinda like outreach, calling others to Islam. But i am not a muslim , but you guys can tell me if i was close at all. |
| Re: What would make you leave America? |
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| Nomi |
| 06/02/03 at 08:16:57 |
| [slm], yea why dont you guys come to Pakistan ? :). Here lemme give you the pros and cons... cons * No disneyland here :P ... * unfortunately bribery is common but ppl with strict rules "can" survive coz its not "that" bad here * Many top notch skewls are not so kewl because of the way in which they are negatively affecting islamic values * Vulgarity is on the rise ! * Thefts are there but in suberbs mostly and not in the major cities * Sometimes dust problem is there in the major cities too, islamabad is an exception and ofcourse the hilly areas... A car solves your problem :) pros * There is a wave of positive change towards the deen * Good education is available for your kids too, that wont be much of a problem * A superb house at a superb location would cost you around.. um.. lemme calculate.. 80,000 $ but it can easily come down to 35,000 $ and the house+location would still be superb (depends on the mind set!) how does that sound :) * As for dressing, a nice trouser+shirt would cost u 16-20 $ i.e. if you are not someone who goes after brands only :P [i]I'm at work right now and this trouser+shirt im wearing at the moment cost nothing, i got it for free :), but dont u expect that you'll get the same coz u might not have a good friend who is a dress designer? .. i do :) [/i] So which flight will you be getting reserved ? :P But on second thought. STAY there !! that place needs more good Muslims coz many of our bretheren have fallen prey to that culture, many of em are lost, there must be someone, some good muslims, to help them get back on track. A best friend of mine graduated from australia and is back in Pakistan now, he says that he saw many Muslim families die spiritually, it may irk you but he added, first generation of yours will be muslim, second will be half Muslim and third !!! Muslims SO TO SAY, he gave an example of a "muslim" family that is really BIG SHOT and they've been there for three generations but there marriage ceremonies are now held in churches and they are not even burried the Muslim way any more !!! There are lots of other example and you guys may know them alot better than me, so i say, stay... Capture the moment seize the day, Keep on track never stray and dont let others stray as well, inshAllah May Allah guide all of us to be even better Muslims Asim Zafar [i]as if someone was actually gonna migrate :)[/i] |
| 06/02/03 at 12:08:26 |
| Nomi |
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