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Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Musafir
06/09/03 at 11:21:46
[slm] Prophet Muhammed   [saw]' first marriage -  Bibi Khatija (RA) who was nearly twice Elder to his age and 3rd one with Bibi Ayishs Siddiq (RA) who was nearly Thrice as yuong to His age - I have a SERIOUS doubt regarding the issue of marriage- when 'young' men  propose to a ‘women’ not a ‘girl ‘ who is 3 to 15 years ‘Elder’ to them for marriage they get a negative replies (Why is so ??? (from my own experiance too) YHOW = (Young Hubby & Older Wife) Just go through this article (written by non-muslim group but on Women's issue ) which I found on ‘NET’ .Please let me know the opinion of sisters on this board – I want to know what do sisters on this board think and is there some one (from sister’s side willing to get  married can further contact ) " Younger men make better husbands because they grew up differently than the previous generation. They don’t have all the stereotypes to contend with. They cook, clean, they spend a lot of time with kids, and are very in tune with a woman’s emotions. They also don’t have a problem with a woman building a career. In other words, it’s the best of both worlds combined to make a wonderful relationship that works. I’m told repeatedly by women who prefer younger men that men their own ages are boring, set in their ways, and need women to follow the rules. To these women that means no fun, giving up their freedom to follow their own journey through life and settling for unspent dreams. Before I met my husband, I was slowly falling into that category without realizing it. I was losing site of the adventure of life. Randy brought life back into me, he balances my tendency to be all work and no play, he shares household chores easily, he loves to cook, he reads my emotions and isn’t afraid to display that tender side men of my generation have no time for. The things most women crave in a man younger men provide naturally and forever. Because our happiness is so obvious to others we encounter, it seems to over rule any objections they might have about our age gap. Society has given us a bum rap for too long. It is acceptable for a 70 year old man to date and marry a 20 year old but not acceptable the other way around. Because of this, many hide the age difference between them to avoid embarrassment. Thank goodness Ageless Love is proving to be a beacon of light for those of us in this type of relationship. Because as more couples discover there are a lot of us, then society may be forced to take a second look at a growing population who is no longer afraid to speak up.   " My main Question is ‘ DOES AGE DIFFERENCE CONSIDERED BY MUSLIM SISTERS FOR MARRIAGE  (YOUNG HUBBY WITH OLDER WIFE ) & WHY ? [wlm]
06/09/03 at 11:39:04
Musafir

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
readagain
06/09/03 at 14:48:07
[slm] I am 2 years older than my fiance.. ::) who is, alhamdulillah, the best thing that ever happened to me  ;) [img]http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons/08.gif[/img] and i know few ppl who has probably the same age difference which is wife being 2 or more years older than the husband and subhanAllah i see them being very content and merciful towards their spouse  :). :-)
06/09/03 at 14:50:13
readagain

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Ameeraana
06/09/03 at 15:18:54
[slm]  I am 4 years older than my fiancee.  I don't see anything wrong or wierd about it.  Khadija was older than Prophet Muhammad [saw].  By the way, its not that I was looking for someone younger.  There are wonderful qualities about him that made me want to marry him. Ameera

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
jannah
06/09/03 at 15:49:51
[wlm] I think in certain cultures the age difference where the wife is older is a big taboo. Even when you tell people about the example our prophet [saw] and how he had such a happy marriage for 25 years and their big age gap they will still give you excuses about how it's 'wrong' and that it 'won't work out' or it will 'cause problems in the marriage'. All proven untrue.. I would argue that it's as islamic to ignore age as it is to ignore race..Allahu alam.. btw  " Younger men make better husbands because they grew up differently than the previous generation. They don’t have all the stereotypes to contend with. They cook, clean, they spend a lot of time with kids, and are very in tune with a woman’s emotions. They also don’t have a problem with a woman building a career. In other words, it’s the best of both worlds combined to make a wonderful relationship that works.  " I think that this is true to some extent.. older men ie 30+ and men born and living in non-western countries have been raised differently. They see the role of marriage differently and find those things beneath them.

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Nomi
06/09/03 at 17:02:41
[slm] [quote] I think that this is true to some extent.. older men ie 30+ and men born and living in non-western countries have been raised differently. They see the role of marriage differently and find those things beneath them. [/quote] First off, i think there is nothing wrong in marrying an older lady :), secondly, i'm born and raised here in Pakistan, have never been abroad to any western country and, i would love my would-be wife to be a doctor or teacher for ladies, am i an exception !!? dont think so, coz if i were then the rest of my friends would have been like the one who have been pointed out in discussion above. :) [quote] Younger men make better husbands because they grew up differently than the previous generation [/quote] Generation ? hm... How many years separate a generation? 10 ? well if its ten then that would mean that ladies will have to marry someone 8-10 years younger than them to get a yes man :P and if the difference is of around 5 years then how come a guy would be (1) different from someone who is from the same generation (2) and a yes man :) ? Still contemplating :) Asim Zafar [quote] First off, i think there is nothing wrong in marrying an older lady :), [/quote]
06/09/03 at 19:51:09
Nomi

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Yousef
06/09/03 at 20:52:33
[slm] My wife is older than me by 3 years and I did face trouble from both sides, Alhumdillah things are pretty good. However, the consequences of marrying an older woman will appear later on, as it is known women age earlier than men and adding the fact that she is already older in the first place. Things might not run smoothly, but after marriage for such a long time these things might be overlooked, waAllahu A'lam. But you can always marry another one.  :D
06/09/03 at 20:58:09
Yousef

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
a_Silver_Rose
06/09/03 at 21:33:24
[slm] [quote]I would argue that it's as islamic to ignore age as it is to ignore race..Allahu alam.. [/quote] Subhan'Allah I so agree. Age does not necessarily determine a persons maturity level. I know people who first worry about it but then realize it doesnt even make up too much of a difference, what matters is what kind of person he/she is.  I know someone who divorced her husband (just nikkah) who was older but so immature about whats really important in life. And Alhumdulilah right after/now she has a proposal from a man who is 2-3 yrs younger and much more understanding/mature! (plz make dua for her, that whatever happens, happens for the best!) [quote]But you can always marry another one.    [/quote] aww maybe Im wrong to say this but paleeez dont say that..for some reason I really feel for the woman and my heart goes out to her when a husband sais it like that
06/10/03 at 00:34:13
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Yousef
06/10/03 at 00:51:45
[slm] Ukhti a silverose, you might disagree with me and probably many would, but that is no reason for any hatred or enmity. I believe that a woman, a Muslim woman should just face the fact that polygamy is Allaah's Legislation and not man's creation and not something that was just practiced long time ago. It's part of Islaam and she has to accept it, you will see women who would go too emotional, they would speak without knowledge, and false statements are made. And sadly, in most cases results in Major Kufr (Disbelieve) without them knowing. And I agree with you, a husband should take his wife's feeling into consideration and not joke alot abuot it but that's no justification for a wife's rejection or hatred to polygamy. [slm]

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
.sakeena.
06/10/03 at 01:08:30
[slm] my two cents on polygamy: a)i think men today, can barely handle ONE woman let alone two, not to mention FOUR. b)i think its humanly impossible to handle four women as perfectly and as equally in all forms, as the Prophet saw dealt with it... c)i think that like many things in the deen, it is existant for a reason, yet one that we don't have the capacity to understand just yet. there is a time and place for everything, and the time and place for polygamy, is definitely not now. Wallahu A3lam.... lol closeline my argument if i am wrong... take care folks. Fi aman Illah, .sakeena.

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
a_Silver_Rose
06/10/03 at 01:23:13
[slm] [quote]Ukhti a silverose, you might disagree with me and probably many would, but that is no reason for any hatred or enmity. I believe that a woman, a Muslim woman should just face the fact that polygamy is Allaah's Legislation and not man's creation and not something that was just practiced long time ago. It's part of Islaam and she has to accept it, you will see women who would go too emotional, they would speak without knowledge, and false statements are made. And sadly, in most cases results in Major Kufr (Disbelieve) without them knowing.   And I agree with you, a husband should take his wife's feeling into consideration and not joke alot abuot it but that's no justification for a wife's rejection or hatred to polygamy. [/quote] Yes I agree with you Brother (sorry didnt mean to start discussion on this) I just cannot help it when feeling that way for a woman when a man says something like that...considering there have been horrible situations involving polygomy (and Alhumdulilah there have been good situations) Just want to mention that although it is aloud  (and woman should recognize the fact)it is clearly not recommended.(so woman shouldnt be pushed to actually go and tell their husbands to consider it or not considered bad if they dont want their husband to have a second wife)..and also the punishment for not treating them equally (as leaving one hanging) is severe. (there is hadith about this) But brother I dont disagree with anything you said and I dont feel hatred or enmity but I dont like it when brothers tend to brag about this fact ..just hurts me a little...considereing polygomy is hard on brothers too..because lets say they wanna be with one of their wives but they are not aloud to because it is another wifes turn... on the contrary I do think it can be done in this day and age as there are some woman who like this (because the other woman helps and because they have a friend and also b/c they get a lil break from hubby) but considereing that the man is God fearing and very patient and trys his best to treat them equally.
06/10/03 at 01:37:18
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Caraj
06/10/03 at 01:36:44
Ok I have a question here    :P Is it ok or a womans right to ask what a mans feeling are on this matter and if he is for more than one wife, refuse to marry him? I mean, ok, I am not trying to start a major battle here (Caraj left her boxing gloves in the closet   ;D  ) can a woman not marry a man who would do that? And can there be a pre-marriage agreement about it?

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
a_Silver_Rose
06/10/03 at 01:50:24
[slm] there are different views whether there can be a pre-marriage agreement on this. There are some who say you can write it in marriage contract. I personally do not agree because I do not think one should change or limit what Allah (swt) has clearly aloud and you never know when you might change your mind or it might become a necessity. On the other hand you can definately discuss this before marriage and a man should keep his word and not lie for this kind of lying is not aloud. Is it wrong to refuse a man for the reason he has or wants to have another wife? There is a hadith that says if you refuse a pious man for your daughter there is corruption in the land. So I dont know... Also if the man is truly pious (then he will do his best to be fair) and maybe there is a good/valid reason he is marrying another woman ...ect.. But if you are not able to live with this man (b/c of that and you have your own reasons) then I believe that is a valid reason to be able to refuse. Also plz read my above post as I have modified it. I also want to say that by reading through different Quranic ayahs some say that this it is ideal to have one man-one woman(altho im not sure this is correct b/c it may not be ideal for everyone) and can only done if there is a valid reason for it..(.I have some more info if anyone would like that pm me. ) Anyhow it is very clear that it is not recommened. I also want to point out that Muslim men shouldnt brag about this because I think Islam is the only religion where they have actually limited the number of wives you can have, while other religions have no limit . Allah (swt) knows best [quote]Ok I have a question here     Is it ok or a womans right to ask what a mans feeling are on this matter and if he is for more than one wife, refuse to marry him? I mean, ok, I am not trying to start a major battle here (Caraj left her boxing gloves in the closet     ) can a woman not marry a man who would do that? And can there be a pre-marriage agreement about it? [/quote]
06/10/03 at 01:55:55
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Yousef
06/10/03 at 01:51:53
[quote]Just want to mention that although it is aloud  (and woman should recognize the fact)it is clearly not recommended.[/quote] Where is your evidence of it being not recommended. [quote]can a woman not marry a man who would do that? And can there be a pre-marriage agreement about it? [/quote] Yes, in the marriage contract and it is perfectly fine. However it is not recommended becuase somethings might come up that would force either the wife or the husband to break the contract. A wife can go as far as stating that she is not going to cook or clean ;)

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
faisalsb
06/10/03 at 02:13:07
[slm] Well I am not sure about having pre-marriage contract but when Ali (rau) wanted to marry daughter of Abu Jahal while keeping Fatima (rau), Holy Prophet [saw] didn't allow Ali (rau) to do so while mentioning he  [saw] is not making halal thing haram but it's not appropriate to combine daughter of prophet  [saw] and daughter of enemy of Islam in one home. But still if Ali (rau) wants to marry her then he has to divorce Fatima (rau). So I think according to upper mentioned hadith woman can ask for divorce if husband intend to go for second marriage. Walla hu Alam ....

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
a_Silver_Rose
06/10/03 at 02:18:04
[slm] [quote]Where is your evidence of it being not recommended. [/quote] [i]If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry woman of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hand possess.  That will be more suitable, to prevent from you from doing unjustice.[/i] (Translation of Qur'an by A. Yusuf Ali 4:3) I believe there is another translation that says 'that is best' instead of 'that will be more suitable' (anyhow same thing) [quote]and also the punishment for not treating them equally (as leaving one hanging) is severe. (there is hadith about this) [/quote] Here is the hadith Im talking about: [i]"Man kana lahu imra'taan fa maala ilaa ihdaahumaa jaa'a yauma al-qiyamati wa shiqquhu maa'ilun." "Whoever has two wives and favors one of them will be resurrected on Qiyama with one of his sides hanging down."  Abu Daud (sahih) [/i]
06/10/03 at 02:33:02
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
a_Silver_Rose
06/10/03 at 02:30:05
[slm] [quote]So I think according to upper mentioned hadith woman can ask for divorce if husband intend to go for second marriage. [/quote] Some other info: [i]Ye are never able to be fair and just between woman, even it is your ardent desire: but turn not away (from a woman) altogether as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air).  If ye come to a friendly understanding and practise self restraint, Allah is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful [/i] (notice it says to practice self restraint  maybe because even if you wish to be with one of your wives more you cant because you have an obligation to the  other and have to treat them equally) But if they disagree and must part. Allah will provide abundance for all from His all reaching bounty: for Allah is He that careth for all and is Wise. (Translation of Qur'an by A. Yusuf Ali 4:129-130).
06/10/03 at 16:40:45
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Caraj
06/10/03 at 02:45:22
Thank you for the responses. I don't mean to sound disrespectful nor un Islamic but I ain't sharing   :( Besides, I'm so ornery I bet my husband would tell you I am a handfull to deal with as it is   :D I would rather be divorced. (I know I'm gonna catch slack for this one  ::)  ) Oh and younger husband on this end too   8) But only by three years. Those in their 40's and 50's wouldn't be able to keep up. I am to ambitous and on the go.    :-/ Allah knows best   :) and he sent me the right man for the job. Patient, loving, kind, caring, and forgiving of all my orneryness.   ;D
06/10/03 at 02:48:52
Caraj

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Yousef
06/10/03 at 02:47:12
Faisal Siddique: The marriage involves a contract and that's where all the conditions are stated. a silverose: {And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan_girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.} (an-Nisaa' v. 3) One cannot say phat the beginning of the Aayah is meant to set a condition, since it is well known that the Prophet, saw many companions who were married to more than one, and they did not do so for orphan caring. This Aayah should be understood in the same sense of the Aayah that allows us to shorten our prayers if we fear harm from the Kuffaar (during war). This is not meant to place such as a condition for shortenning, as is known in the Sunnah that the Prophet, would shorten in times of ease and tranquility during his travels. So the Sunnah explains the Qur'aan. What you are trying to reach here is that Allaah allowed polygamy under the condition of being just and said that we will never be just, so in essence prohibitting it by contradicting Himself! So it is obvious then that we are misunderstanding the verses. As the scholars say, the injustice that is prohibited is material injustice, like sharing of time, gifts, etc. The one which is outside our control is that of the heart, since even the Prophet, loved some of his wives over others. He once was asked, who was his favorite person, and said Aaa'isah. So this love of the heart, one is not held responsible for.
06/10/03 at 02:48:13
Yousef

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Yousef
06/10/03 at 02:51:00
Are you adressing me Caraj  :D
06/10/03 at 02:53:16
Yousef

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
nouha
06/10/03 at 03:59:21
[slm] Muslim women are to accept that polygamy is part of Islam and is HALAL...however a muslim woman also has every right to put in her contract that she does not want to "share" her man.... and if he agrees to this then alhumdulilah, if not...alhumdulilah.... so cara dear u do not sound unislamic or disrespectful... :)..im the same way ;) wasalam nouha:)

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
faisalsb
06/10/03 at 06:13:06
[slm] Brother Yousef thanks for telling me about marriage contract I think I also singned one when I got married ...;) Well offcourse I know about marriage contract but what I meant there was that I wasn't sure either we can put that particular condition in marriage contract or not. Anyway once again thanks for the information although it sounds a bit funny ....:)
06/10/03 at 06:13:50
faisalsb

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Nomi
06/10/03 at 06:55:54
[wlm] and [slm] [quote] a)i think men today, can barely handle ONE woman let alone two, not to mention FOUR.   [/quote] So true, i'm all for that, men nowadays can't do justice with even two wives let alone FOUR!! but i wonder that what would happen in the future coz number of sisters is increasing one reason for that is many men get "shaheed" in wars !!! [slm] Asim Zafar
06/10/03 at 07:38:02
Nomi

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Asim
06/10/03 at 07:36:11
Assalaamu alaikum, Just wanted to say one thing.... [quote]a)i think men today, can barely handle ONE woman let alone two, not to mention FOUR.   So true, i'm all for that, men nowadays can't do justice with even two wives let alone FOUR!![/quote] I feel this is the wrong way of thinking (and this is not tied to this issue only but others as well). Our line of thinking should be, Islam has given us the best way of life, the best process and the best product. We should change ourselves and our environment to gain the *benefit/reward* in following the Islamic process and attaining the Islamic product rather than dismissing them as inapplicable in our times/situation, and thus foregoing the reward of following sincerely. The Islamic product and process are strongly correlated. One cannot be he healthy without the other being healthy. Wasalaam.
06/10/03 at 07:49:50
Asim

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Nomi
06/10/03 at 07:42:28
[wlm] and [slm] Reason for me saying that was, Islam instructs us to do polygamy only if we can be just with wives, no ? But how many of us are willing to teach our children, our daughters before they get married that if the husband marrys another woman then they should be happy about it ? Asim Zafar PS: i'm learning while texting things as many of us are about this particular topic :)
06/10/03 at 08:31:36
Nomi

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Asim
06/10/03 at 07:58:13
Only Allah is Just. One cannot be just to a single wife also, it is hard! But I don’t want to talk about this issue specifically. [quote] how many of us are willing to teach our children, our daughters before they get married that if there husband marrys another women then she should be happy about it ?[/quote] This should be our individual and collective responsibility, and these represent our struggles. If women have some issues, men have theirs. These are our tests and trials. The point is we shouldn’t shun away from an Islamic process and attaining a product by simply saying it is too hard for us. The goodness of Islam is the absolute. It is not tied to any other thing (condition of ummah/situation/time, etc). We should always gravitate towards that goodness. Yes it can be hard, but we still strive towards that goal. Strive= jihad, and the developing of the correct thinking and inclinations in our hearts is a form of striving. I feel this is the correct line of reasoning, and not “ such and such conditions exist, so such and such process/product is not applicable or good or practical”). See the difference? P.S. sorry folks for the diversion. You can go back to the original discussions now :)
06/10/03 at 08:36:32
Asim

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Nomi
06/10/03 at 08:14:49
[quote] Our line of thinking should be, Islam has given us the best way of life, the best process and the best product. We should change ourselves and our environment. If women have some issues, men have theirs as well. These are our tests and trials. The point is we shouldn’t shun away from an Islamic process and product by simply saying it is too hard for us. [/quote] MashaAllah bro Asim nice lines of reasoning, quite convincing. Each and every islamic teaching is undoubtably perfect but its only us, men and women, who are weak in faith. jazakumullah Asim Zafar
06/10/03 at 08:54:17
Nomi

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Nafisa
06/10/03 at 09:12:17
[slm] funny how polgamy manages to sidetrack every debate!  I'm not going to add more fuel to the fire becuase it's a seperate idea altogether.  But the fact that it all kicked off with an implication that when an older wife starts to look more 'mature' the man can simply bring in a younger wife...well, lets just say it gets the sisters' backs' up! But back on topic, I find it reaaally difficult to persuade my mum that i should marry someone my own age let alone someone younger!  I guess it's a bit of a taboo and the thinking is that older men are more ready to settle down and are more financially stable and so on.  The pressure from parents not to marry younger because of negative perceptions may be a reason why we don't see many YHOW couplings.
NS
06/10/03 at 09:21:10
Nafisa

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Kathy
06/10/03 at 11:18:45
[slm] Regarding the marriage contract, this is my understanding: A woman can write that she will not be a co- wife, but she can not write that her husband is not allowed to take another wife.

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Nomi
06/10/03 at 12:16:20
[slm] Sorry but i just had to ask this question, i myself thought differently of polygamy but bro "Asim Karim" came up with some really convincing points. So, What do sisters on this board, after this detailed discussion on polygamy being ok, think about having a shared husbands ? and lets say that you've got a practicing friend who got divorced coz her husband was a moron! and now she is having tough time in life, would you be willing to ....? Asim Zafar
06/10/03 at 12:24:24
Nomi

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
a_Silver_Rose
06/10/03 at 16:43:19
[slm] [quote]a silverose: {And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan_girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.} (an-Nisaa' v. 3) One cannot say that the beginning of the Aayah is meant to set a condition, since it is well known that the Prophet, saw many companions who were married to more than one, and they did not do so for orphan caring. This Aayah should be understood in the same sense of the Aayah that allows us to shorten our prayers if we fear harm from the Kuffaar (during war). This is not meant to place such as a condition for shortenning, as is known in the Sunnah that the Prophet, would shorten in times of ease and tranquility during his travels. So the Sunnah explains the Qur'aan. What you are trying to reach here is that Allaah allowed polygamy under the condition of being just and said that we will never be just, so in essence prohibitting it by contradicting Himself! So it is obvious then that we are misunderstanding the verses. As the scholars say, the injustice that is prohibited is material injustice, like sharing of time, gifts, etc. The one which is outside our control is that of the heart, since even the Prophet, loved some of his wives over others. He once was asked, who was his favorite person, and said Aaa'isah. So this love of the heart, one is not held responsible for. [/quote] waitttttt a second Brother Yousef I never said that... you asked me to give you evidence that it is not recommended. and I think that ayah is very clear... About whether you have to do it for a certain reason there is a difference of opinon on that. Having said that I do agree with Brother Asim but considering that ayah I dont like the articles which tell woman to accept it with open arms, And the fact that if we dont want our husband to have a second wifet then we are doing something wrong. Why encourage your husband to do something that is not recommende and may cause more harm than good? Now everyone knows their own husband, it might be that you know your husband and you know he can handle it and you know there is a woman in need then Alhumdulilah if you tell your husband to marry her. Now if your husband has already decided we have a right to talk to him about it but woman dont have the right to tell him he CANT do this because this is a God given right to them. Except there are marriage contracts which there is a difference of opinion on the subject. And if he is not just then woman have the right to divorce. On the other hand the ones that are a second wife or have a co wife then we should support them and not disgrade or discourage them!
06/10/03 at 17:56:36
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Caraj
06/10/03 at 16:53:09
[quote author=Kathy link=board=sis;num=1055168507;start=15#27 date=06/10/03 at 11:18:45] [slm] Regarding the marriage contract, this is my understanding: A woman can write that she will not be a co- wife, but she can not write that her husband is not allowed to take another wife.[/quote] What is the difference between a co-wife and another wife? ??? [quote author=Nomi link=board=sis;num=1055168507;start=15#28 date=06/10/03 at 12:16:20][slm] Sorry but i just had to ask this question, i myself thought differently of polygamy but bro "Asim Karim" came up with some really convincing points. So, What do sisters on this board, after this detailed discussion on polygamy being ok, think about having a shared husbands ? and lets say that you've got a practicing friend who got divorced coz her husband was a moron! and now she is having tough time in life, would you be willing to ....? Asim Zafar[/quote] I would be most happy to help her with shelter, food, clothing.education and more but ever hear that little statement when you buy something that says BATTERIES NOT INCLUDED? Well mine is................ HUSBAND NOT INCLUDED    :(  no way
06/10/03 at 16:55:05
Caraj

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Yousef
06/10/03 at 20:31:36
silverose: Again..on what basis are you talking, the Prophet's silent approval of the actions of his companions. The majority of the companions are recorded to have had polygamous relationships. So if it was not recommended it would have been conveyed, it was the Sunnah of many of the Prophets. So how can it be not recommended ? And it was stated by the Prophet implicitly. For example, he encouraged marrying fertile women, for he wants to have the maximum amount of followers on the Last Day. And this goal is achieved thru polygamy. Also, he demonstrated how Sulaymaan wanted to have relations with a large number of women, for the intention of all becoming pregnant with future Mujaahids, but because he forgot to say InshaAllah, it didn't happen. But if one is fearful that he won't be just, or has the choice between doing this and something better for his Deen, or some other reason, than of course, in his case it won't be preferred.

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Yousef
06/10/03 at 20:35:04
[quote]I would be most happy to help her with shelter, food, clothing.education and more but ever hear that little statement when you buy something that says BATTERIES NOT INCLUDED?  [/quote] A female can live with no food, poor shelter, bad clothing. But she can't live without a man. She needs someone to provide her with safety, protection, etc, etc. Put youself in her situation.

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Caraj
06/10/03 at 22:29:06
[quote author=Yousef link=board=sis;num=1055168507;start=30#32 date=06/10/03 at 20:35:04] A female can live with no food, poor shelter, bad clothing. But she can't live without a man. She needs someone to provide her with safety, protection, etc, etc. Put youself in her situation. [/quote] Well now ....... your kind of really asking the wrong sister. I raised 2 boys almost totally alone for 14 years with no man. Started a successful business. Had a wood stove for heat and chopped my own wood and hauled and slung my own bales of hay for my horses. I would not want another womans man to care for me. But like I said you are asking the wrong lady.    :o I made my own money, slung my own hay, chopped my own wood and protected myself and my sons. Sorry to answer this way but I speak the truth.

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Yousef
06/10/03 at 22:54:52
But didn't you want a man? and I'm serious, not joking or fooling around. The fact that you didn't have for one reason or another and you were by the help of your Lord were able to live with no trouble, doesn't mean you were satisfied, happy, etc. However I may be wrong.
06/10/03 at 22:58:32
Yousef

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Caraj
06/10/03 at 23:15:34
[quote author=Yousef link=board=sis;num=1055168507;start=30#34 date=06/10/03 at 22:54:52]But didn't you want a man? and I'm serious, not joking or fooling around. The fact that you didn't have for one reason or another and you were by the help of your Lord were able to live with no trouble, doesn't mean you were satisfied, happy, etc. However I may be wrong.[/quote] I know you're not joking. And yes you are correct sometimes I was lonely and sometimes I wished I had help and companionship. Sometimes I was to tired to care and glad I didn't have yet another responsability...... a husband to take care of.  ::) I am just saying I would never want another womans husband to care for me. As for another sister in need, I would do anything in my power to help her except share my husband. He could help her with work and finances and I would be right by his side helping. But as for the private marital things, I do not share those. And yes you are right I had my Lord to give me strength and courage. We all do. He was my campanion and friend and strength. I am married now and I am still alone. Not cause we want to be but because of his job. I have a fairly large piece of land to work and keep up, animals to care for and a business to run and a household on top of it and for most all of this year. Having a spouse is a blessing and a gift but not a neccessity. One can live without a mate. Maybe not totally happy but they will live. many do not know how to seperate needs vs wants. I need Allah, I need water, I need food, I need air, . A husband, is a want, a blessing, a gift.....I wanted one I did not need one, I would not die without one.
06/10/03 at 23:20:31
Caraj

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
a_Silver_Rose
06/11/03 at 01:49:19
[slm] [quote]silverose: Again..on what basis are you talking, the Prophet's silent approval of the actions of his companions. The majority of the companions are recorded to have had polygamous relationships. So if it was not recommended it would have been conveyed, it was the Sunnah of many of the Prophets. So how can it be not recommended ? And it was stated by the Prophet implicitly. For example, he encouraged marrying fertile women, for he wants to have the maximum amount of followers on the Last Day. And this goal is achieved thru polygamy. Also, he demonstrated how Sulaymaan wanted to have relations with a large number of women, for the intention of all becoming pregnant with future Mujaahids, but because he forgot to say InshaAllah, it didn't happen. But if one is fearful that he won't be just, or has the choice between doing this and something better for his Deen, or some other reason, than of course, in his case it won't be preferred. [/quote] On what basis am I talking????????????? I gave you evidence from Qur'an! You are completely ignoring that...and dont try to tell me about the sunnah. Allah's word comes first! Why are you trying to argue that something is recommended when it isnt? and NO I dont know of the Many comapanions who  had a polgyomous relationship. you have provided no proof for this. So please enlighten me?  hence what is ideal for one family is not necessarily ideal for another. . . Allah (swt) knows best
06/11/03 at 02:12:41
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
a_Silver_Rose
06/11/03 at 01:54:16
[quote]A female can live with no food, poor shelter, bad clothing. But she can't live without a man. She needs someone to provide her with safety, protection, etc, etc. Put youself in her situation. [/quote] hmm the femaile can live with no food???? A female or male for that matter CANT live without food, but a man and woman both CAN live with out each other. After the prophet [saw] death his wives all lived w/o a husband. And Alhumdulilah Aisha lived for a very  long time and her knowledge was very beneficail to the MEN in the community. Alhumdulilah. [quote]The fact that you didn't have for one reason or another and you were by the help of your Lord were able to live with no trouble, doesn't mean you were satisfied, happy, etc. However I may be wrong. [/quote] Many woman are not satisfied/happy living WITH their husband...while they could probably be more happy alone.. Im not trying to get you on everything but please think what you say. It seems as though you are trying to convince one that for everyone polygomy is better. But this is clearly not the case. It is not something that is encouraged, so dont make it so important. There are many woman who are willing to accept it and are more happy with it so dont worry about the woman who arent.. What is ideal for one is not necessarily ideal for another. Also I think we should focus more on men treating them fairly because most men are not/cant do that while if he cant/isnt then it is not right for him to have a second wife. NOw about the question that one brother pointed out whether we would accept it. I dont think that anyone can really say how they are going to feel or what their situation will be in the future. only Allah (Swt) knows. Neway an important thing to remember is that 'never say never' :) Check out this true story ;) : http://www.themuslimwoman.com/marriage/neversaynever.htm
06/11/03 at 02:09:28
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Yousef
06/11/03 at 02:46:06
[quote]I gave you evidence from Qur'an! You are completely ignoring that...and dont try to tell me about the sunnah. Allah's word comes first! Why are you trying to argue that something is recommended when it isnt? and NO I dont know of the Many comapanions who  had a polgyomous relationship. you have provided no proof for this or anything else you say. It is very clearly not recommended. hence what is ideal for one family is not necessarily ideal for another. . .   [/quote] You are interpreting the verses you posted according to your desires, What is meant by the justice that is required in order for a man to be permitted to have more than one wife is that he should treat his wives equally in terms of spending, clothing, spending the night with them and other material things that are under his control. With regard to justice or fairness in terms of love, he is not held accountable for that, and that is not required of him because he has no control over that. This is what is meant by the verse, anNisaa:129 [quote]and NO I dont know of the Many comapanions who  had a polgyomous relationship. you have provided no proof for this or anything else you say. [/quote] Abu Dawood (2050) narrated that Ma’qil ibn Yasaar said: A man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, “I have found a woman who is of good lineage and is beautiful, but she does not children. Should I marry her?” He said, “No.” Then he came again with the same question and he told him not to marry her. Then he came a third time with the same question and he said: “Marry those who are loving and fertile, for I will be proud of your great numbers before the other nations.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel, 1784. Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 93: Volume 9, Book 93, Number 561: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Prophet Solomon who had sixty wives, once said, "Tonight I will have sexual relation (sleep) with all my wives so that each of them will become pregnant and bring forth (a boy who will grow into) a cavalier and will fight in Allah's Cause." So he slept with his wives and none of them (conceived and) delivered (a child) except one who brought a half (body) boy (deformed). Allah's Prophet said, "If Solomon had said; 'If Allah Will,' then each of those women would have delivered a (would-be) cavalier to fight in Allah's Cause." (See Hadith No. 74 A, Vol. 4). And for the companions being polygamous, that would be hard to post but if that's the only obstacle I might be able to post something. Just read some history

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
a_Silver_Rose
06/11/03 at 02:56:00
[slm] [quote]You are interpreting the verses you posted according to your desires, What is meant by the justice that is required in order for a man to be permitted to have more than one wife is that he should treat his wives equally in terms of spending, clothing, spending the night with them and other material things that are under his control. With regard to justice or fairness in terms of love, he is not held accountable for that, and that is not required of him because he has no control over that. This is what is meant by the verse, anNisaa:129 [/quote] Brother I realize that and I never argued that fact? What does this have to do with the ayah I gave you which is not even nissa:129. It was nisaa:3... Brother you have said that the majority of the companions were polygomous.  From reading history I have not seen this and you still have not provided evidence for what you said. (Even if this is true it does not mean that it is recomended considereing What Allah (swt) tells us.) The first hadith I have heard and does not support what you said. The second hadith is talking about a prophet and not a companion and cannot work since he is a prophet and  the limit is only four. [quote]The majority of the companions are recorded to have had polygamous relationships. [/quote]
06/11/03 at 02:58:56
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Yousef
06/11/03 at 02:58:45
[i]no food[/i]...I meant poor food, I hoped you would assume that. Concerning the Prophet's wives, those are an exception and you can't and no rulings can be based on exceptions. [quote] *Many woman are not satisfied/happy living WITH their husband...while they could probably be more happy alone..   Im not trying to get you on everything but please think what you say. It seems as though you are trying to convince one that for everyone polygomy is better. But this is clearly not the case. *It is not something that is encouraged, so dont make it so important. There are many woman who are willing to accept it and are more happy with it so dont worry about the woman who arent.. What is ideal for one is not necessarily ideal for another. Also I think we should focus more on men treating them fairly because most men are not/cant do that while if he cant/isnt then it is not right for him to have a second wife.   [/quote] *.  :D Many of you sisters might want to shoot me but from what I have seen, no matter how terrible the husband is, a female still wants a male in the house. Again, thats what I have experienced, aunts, grandmothers, my own family. All my families might be screwed up, but my opinion is based on what I saw. *. You were the one who said that having more than one wife is not recommended - Makrooh - and for someone to consider something as such - Makrooh - is a very big deal. And I was just trying to prove you wrong.  ;D And I agree with you, that we should emphasize more on good treatment between the spouses.

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Yousef
06/11/03 at 03:03:41
“And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice” [al-Nisa’ 4:3] And im requoting myself here, One cannot say that the beginning of the Aayah is meant to set a condition, since it is well known that the Prophet, saw many companions who were married to more than one, and they did not do so for orphan caring. This Aayah should be understood in the same sense of the Aayah that allows us to shorten our prayers if we fear harm from the Kuffaar (during war). This is not meant to place such as a condition for shortenning, as is known in the Sunnah that the Prophet, would shorten in times of ease and tranquility during his travels. So the Sunnah explains the Qur'aan. And concerning the refrence, first you said that I didn't have any refrences, then I gave you the refrences, now you are telling me that they don't help at all, why didn't you state that in the very beginning.
06/11/03 at 03:05:44
Yousef

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
a_Silver_Rose
06/11/03 at 03:08:10
[slm] LOL well Brother I understand the importance of the male, just dont say you cant live without them, you can although I agree it is hard...(dont know what Id do w/o my daddy) and yes it is harder w/o the protection/safety ect. Yes I realize you are 'trying' to prove me wrong ;D But it hasnt happened. Brother you know there are many who say that it is actually ideal to have one man -one woman. because Allah (swt) says in that he has created us from a single nafs and from that our spouse? Can anyone explain this to me? Anyway I dont agree with the ideal thing. About it not being recommened it does seem so although I will say I am not 100% sure. Allahu Alim. Astagfirullah...There is also no proof that it is recommended. Not to mention it is 100% not required so no need to push something that isnt required. Brother I think that if a wife is not happy with it then whats the point? islamically you are suppose to do everything to make your spouse happy ect so they will be a comfort to each other insh'Allah. It may cause more harm than good and on the other hand it may cause more good than harm. I look at it both ways but I have seen so many Muslim brag about this and I dont like that considering it is not easy as they make it out to be, not for them and not for their wife. May Allah (swt) guide us all. [quote]And concerning the refrence, first you said that I didn't have any refrences, then I gave you the refrences, now you are telling me that they don't help at all, why didn't you state that in the very beginning. [/quote] hmm brother I told you to give me evidence (refrences) that backs up what you say not some random information ::) so can we end this discussion here insh'Allah?
06/12/03 at 18:09:23
a_Silver_Rose

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Yousef
06/11/03 at 03:20:14
[quote]Yes I realize you are 'trying' to prove me wrong :D But it hasnt happened.[/quote] [quote]so can we end this discussion here insh'Allah? [/quote] ;)  :D  ;D   As you wish   ;D  :D  ;)

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Musafir
06/11/03 at 10:47:23
[slm] :) I have been watching your debates, well its good, but Haven’t you people forgot all about me and my Question  which I posted here.  :o And is there some one out there who is willing to get settled  for "Our parents engaged us when we were little, they must have forgotten to tell you."  ;D  Taken from Islamic Pickup line thread :-) :-X [wlm]

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
muslimah853
06/11/03 at 11:47:40
[slm] To answer the original question, there is nothing wrong with a woman marrying a man younger than she, so long as they are both comfortable with the arrangement.   To the polygyny question, I'd like to say a couple of things. 1)  Irrespective of "right"--and I put that in quotes because the right is conditional, if a man doesn't have the ability, financially, emotionally, maturity wise, he has no business with one spouse let alone two.  I hate to bust bubbles here, but one has to meet certain qualifications as per sharia'ah to be able to have a spouse.  If you get married to one, or to a subsequent woman, and you are ill prepared to do so, you have wronged them and will be accountable for that.  Anyway, irrespective of "right", there is more to Islam than black and white--books of fiqh generally don't deal with the inward adab, what's "better".  So technically a man may have the "right" to a second wife if his wife is getting older, but you can't tell me that this is a legitimate reason according to the spirit of Islam...he doesn't like the fact that she is no longer firm and supple and so he goes out looking for another?  What is her recourse when he develops a spare tire around the middle and starts balding and wrinkling?  Can she divorce him and go find herself a nice, buff, young man?  Many of you would be appalled at that suggestion, but men can do it without problem?  That's not what marriage, and indeed Islam is about.  Looks matter, but marriage is not based only on physical traits--and if you marry for that reason you will be disappointed.  Looks fade, we grow older, that's the nature of the dunya.  Any man who does this--I'm sorry but I seriously question his maturity level--he shouldn't be trusted with a fish let alone a spouse or two.  And ditto for a man who would wreck a perfectly happy first marriage to take another spouse.  It may be his "right" fiqh wise, but his judgment is seriously impaired as far as I'm concerned. 2)  To the suggestion that women "need" a man.  I NEED my Lord.  Yes, Allah has created women (and men) for a very strong inclination towards one another.  Men are just as lonely, imbalanced, or what have you without a woman in their lives.  So it's a two way street.  If need be, I'd get along without one.  Whatever anyone's personal experience may be, not all women would deal with any old joker just to have man around.  I am not this way, my mother was not this way.  She left an abusive marriage and drilled it into my head for the rest of my life by word and example that you don't NEED a man--she is not anti-man in any sense, she has been involved in relationships (she's not Muslim) over the years, (always with younger men, I might add) but the idea is that if the man is not going to contribute anything to your life, then he gots to go.  There's an old song which I'm fond of quoting, "I can do bad by myself."  If you are not enhancing my existence, I don't want you around.   I like companionship as much as the next girl, and I love my husband dearly, and am grateful to Allah for putting him in my life, but I will not deal with a substandard man simply to have male companionship.  Period.  And I am not an anomaly.   [wlm]

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Ameeraana
06/11/03 at 20:47:18
[slm]  [quote]However, the consequences of marrying an older woman will appear later on, as it is known women age earlier than men and adding the fact that she is already older in the first place. Things might not run smoothly, but after marriage for such a long time these things might be overlooked, waAllahu A'lam. But you can always marry another one.   [/quote]   Although, yes, polygamy is allowed in Islam, let me just say that this quote sounds pretty derogatory.  The tone of the statement alone sounds as if the older wife will automatically be treated unfairly when the new "fresh, young" wife arrives to the home.   Maybe its not how this statement was meant, but the way it was worded sure sounds like it.  How do you think a woman would feel if her husband tells her something like this?   The derogatory feeling of this statement is what set off the criticism of polygamy.   Ameera

Re: Marriage Issue - AGE DIFFERENCE ??? YHOW!!!
Anonymous
06/12/03 at 04:46:59
Ibn Abbas and others narrated from the Prophet (saws) that Adam was alone in Paradise. He slept for some time and when he awoke, he saw a woman. So he asked her, "Who are you? She replied, "A woman" He asked: "Why have you been created?" She said: "So that you could find companionship and tranquility in me."
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