A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| eleanor |
| 06/19/03 at 16:22:45 |
| [slm] I heard of someone who as a joke called his wife "sister" or "mother" behind her back or to her face. Someone said that there is a ruling on this where the marriage becomes invalid and you have to feed 60 poor people and do Nikkah again. Another person said that there is no such ruling and that if the person repents then there is nothing grievious about it. Does anyone have a ruling for this, [i]with proof[/i] to clear up the matter? Serious replies with proof (hadith/Qur'an) only please!! |
| Re: he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| sofia |
| 06/19/03 at 19:45:17 |
| As-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah, Eleanor I know of couples who call each other (when referring to them outside their presence) "sister X" or "brother X" or "mother of so-and-so" or "father of so-and-so" every once in a while. Weird, yes. But in a respectful way, I think. :) However, you may be thinking of a pre-Islaamic form of divorce that Arab men used, "You are like my mother's back to me," or, "You are forbidden to me," out of anger. Also known as Zihaar, which meant they were divorced but she wasn't entirely free to re-marry, or something to this effect. Islaam forbade this type of divorce (ie, it was made void/didn't mean divorce, but there is still a retribution to be paid for saying it, Allahu A'lim). Khuwaylah bint Tha'labah once complained about her husband, 'Aws bin As-Saamit, to the Prophet (S) and more importantly, to Allah, about his pronouncing Zihaar. So the first few verses from Surah Mujaadilah were revealed ("The Woman who disputed." Subhan'Allah, Allah hears all of our complaints). I think the point is moreso about pronouncing divorce upon one's wife out of anger/neglect, and the retribution for it (rather than using specific words for a different intention). I'd strongly suggest asking a knowledgeable and trustworthy scholar if you want a ruling, since each case has its own specifics and may have different rulings. The case you mentioned may or may not even fall into it. Allaahu A'lim. [color=green] “Indeed, God has heard the statement of her that disputes with you concerning her husband. Those among you who make their wives unlawful to them by Zihaar, they cannot be their mothers. None can be their mothers except those who gave birth to them. And verily, they utter an ill word and a lie. And verily, God is Oft-Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving. And those who make unlawful by Zihaar and wish to free themselves from what they uttered, [the penalty] in that case is the freeing of a slave before they touch each other. That is an admonition to you. And God is All-Aware of what you do. And he who finds not [the means] must fast two successive months before they both touch each other. And for him who is unable to do so, he should feed sixty poor. That is in order that you may have perfect Faith in God and His Messenger. These are the limits set by God…” (Translation of Mujaadilah 58:1-4) [/color] The tafseer of Ibn Katheer is online at www.tafsir.com - scroll down to Surah 58 and click on related topics (for verses 1-4). Might also want to check out this Islam Q/A. [url=http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=13778&dgn=3] Mentioning husband’s or wife’s name in front of people [/url] [url=http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=22034&dgn=3] Divorce uttered in anger[/url] Again, please don't take any of this as a fatwah for the specific case you mentioned. Hope that helped, somewhat. :) |
| 06/19/03 at 19:51:00 |
| sofia |
| Re: he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| a_Silver_Rose |
| 06/19/03 at 19:48:14 |
| [slm] dont know ... have you heard that song 'all my life been waiting for you , your like my mother, sister, ect... or some people will say their husband or wife is like their mother, father, brother, sister. Alot of times when someone cares for you or acts like your mother, grandmother, you call them mother, or grandmother..(dadee amma) which I have been called recently by someone ::) Anyway I heard that even if you say divorce jokingly it doesnt count b/c it was jokingly or maybe you should repent b/c you shouldnt say those things like 'divorce' as a joke. But im confused myself as to why it would be wrong to call your wife, 'sister, mother' as a joke or because they are just acting like your sister or mother.... ps posted at same time of sister sofias so I didnt get to see her post first... |
| 06/20/03 at 16:37:22 |
| a_Silver_Rose |
| Re: he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| Yousef |
| 06/19/03 at 23:29:44 |
| There is nothing as a 'three-time divorce' , 'triple-divorce'... |
| Re: he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| muahmed |
| 06/20/03 at 13:45:26 |
| [slm] ;-) [quote author=Yousef link=board=madrasa;num=1056050566;start=0#3 date=06/19/03 at 23:29:44]There is nothing as a 'three-time divorce' , 'triple-divorce'... [/quote] What do u mean? |
| Re: he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| Yousef |
| 06/20/03 at 15:46:55 |
| As you know in Islaam you can divorce a woman upto three times. Some ignorant men would utter the three divorces at the same time, however that is not valid. |
| Re: he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| muahmed |
| 06/20/03 at 17:43:51 |
| [slm] ;-) That is valid according to many great scholars of the past and present. JazakAllah khair for informing us of a different opinion on this issue. |
| Re: he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 06/20/03 at 22:45:41 |
| [slm] It is well known that there is a difference of opinion on this matter of divorcing 3 at a time. Here are some scholarly opinions on this matter: From islam-qa.com Sheikh Munajjid was asked: Could you please let me know according to the Shafi mishep, if a man can give his wife Talaaq tree(3) times at once. Answer: Praise be to Allaah. Giving talaaq (divorce) three times at once is bid’ah, and goes against the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “… When you divorce women, divorce them at their ‘iddah (prescribed periods)…” [al-Talaaq 65:1]. If a Muslim wants to divorce his wife, he should divorce her according to the Sunnah, which is to give one talaaq at a time when his wife is taahir (not menstruating) and he has not yet had intercourse with her following her period, or when it is clear that she is pregnant. According to the Shaafi’i madhhab and the majority of other madhhabs, giving three talaaqs at once counts as three separate talaaqs and is irrevocable, and the couple cannot remarry until the woman has been married to and divorced from another man. Other scholars say that three talaaqs given at once count as only one talaaq. And Allaah knows best. ;================================== From Our Dialogue: Q. Many of us felt a great relief when we read your reply, explaining that a divorce pronounced three or more times in one session is counted as one revocable divorce. The relief comes from the fact that it is common practice in our part of the world to pronounce divorce three times together, which has resulted in many a broken homes. However, it is mentioned by scholars that all four schools of thought are unanimous in considering a divorce pronounced three times as three divorces, which renders the break of the marriage irreparable. Even Maulana Maudoodi mentions this in his book Tafheemul Qur'an. Please comment in detail. 2. It is common practice that a man casts his wife by pronouncing the word of divorce three times. It is often true that this irrevocable break up of the marriage has no reason other than the husband's desire for another woman or some such silly thing. In this way, he uses the law of divorce to satisfy his whims. Could you please explain what sort of protection is given to the woman to guard against such abuse of the law. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A173 : Any law or regulation can be subject to abuse. Unless you appoint someone to watch over every person to ensure that he abides by the letter and spirit of the law, you cannot achieve a proper adherence to the law. But Islamic laws and regulations are given the support of the very real feeling which Islam implants in the mind of every one of its followers that Allah watches over him or her. When we realize that Allah knows our intentions and the real reasons behind our actions, we feel that we must always watch out. We must never abuse Allah's law or be guilty of any wrongdoing. As people who believe in the Oneness of Allah and in the message of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) we know that we have to face a detailed reckoning on the Day of Judgment, when we have to answer for every action that we may make in this life. It is the total sum of what we have done in life and the net result of our good actions set against our bad ones that determines our destiny in the life to come. As believers we know that heaven and hell are a reality and that we must do our best to ensure our admission into heaven. Therefore, we must always guard against doing injustice to anyone, particularly those whom we are required to look after and to whom we are supposed to bring happiness, i.e. our wives and close relatives. The other safeguard is the fact that in a Muslim community, women are properly looked after either by their husbands or by male members of their families, such as their fathers, brothers or uncles. In addition, if we are good believers and know that following the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) brings us the greatest reward of all, namely, that Allah is pleased with us, we should work hard to implement the Prophet's teachings in our lives. The Prophet has repeatedly emphasized that we must take good care of our women. To take good care of one's wife cannot be accomplished by abusing the law of divorce in order to get rid of her, or "cast her away" as you say. May I now turn to the other point of divorcing one's wife three times in the same session. I have explained several times that this is forbidden. When the Prophet heard that one of his companions did this, he expressed extreme anger and addressed the Muslim community, saying: "Will Allah's book be trifled with when I am still alive among you?" He described a divorce pronounced three times in the same session as "trifling with Allah's Book." There can be no greater emphasis that such an action is absolutely forbidden. Yet people do it all the time. I am afraid that many are under the false impression that unless they pronounce the word of divorce three times together, the divorce does not take effect. Therefore, this comes as a result of ignorance. The question is whether what people do, pronouncing the word of divorce three times in quick succession, or in one session, or on the same day, counts three divorces as the four schools of thought say, or counts as one divorce, as I have explained on more than one occasion. Before answering this question let me point out three very important facts: First, a verdict may be accepted by a large number of highly prominent scholars, including, the founders of the four schools of thought, yet it may be supported by less weighty evidence than an opposite verdict which may be advocated by a smaller number of scholars. If we find that evidence supporting the view of the minority weightier, then we do not hesitate to accept that opinion, because no one, a scholar or others, of even the highest eminence, is immune from making a mistake or giving a judgment which relies on a misunderstanding, etc. All our scholars agree that no opinion of any person is to be taken in preference to an authentic Hadith. Even the founders of the four schools of thought have expressed this view very clearly. Imam Al-Shaf'ie says: "If I say something and you find an authentic Hadith saying something different, then take the Hadith and leave my opinion aside." The second point is that when there is more than one verdict in relation to a particular question, a person in my position, having to answer people's queries and explain what people should do in order to earn Allah's pleasure, should not leave his readers in a position of confusion. He must tell them the view that he believes to be the correct one, as supported by the weightier evidence. If any reader decides that he wants to take the other view, he is free to do so, but he should make his decision based on a proper understanding of the evidence relevant to the question on hand. Thirdly, if the leader of a Muslim community chooses a verdict which is supported by good and weighty evidence and decides that this is the one to be implemented by the courts of law, he must be obeyed provided that he is only acting in the best interests of the community. Those who consider that a divorce pronounced three times in succession, or in one session, or written down on the same piece of paper counts as three divorces rely on a ruling by Umar ibn Al-Khattab who, as a ruler of the Islamic state, enforced that piece of regulation. He justified it by saying: "People have precipitated something in which they have been given relief, it may be appropriate to enforce what they have precipitated." So he enforced it. It is clear from this statement that Umar meant this as a punishment befitting the misbehavior of people who precipitate the irrevocability of divorce by divorcing their wives three times in succession. In other words, he was saying that "People want that irrevocability to take place immediately, then let them have it." The companions of the Prophet who were alive at that time accepted Umar's view, because they felt that the punishment was appropriate. Later scholars have taken this as a unanimous verdict by the companions of the Prophet and include it in their books as the appropriate ruling. The fact that it was merely a punishment is the acknowledgment implied in Umar's own statement that people have already been granted a relief, but they still precipitate the ultimate result. It is only appropriate to ask what that relief is. The answer is contained in the authentic Hadith included in this report by Abdullah ibn Abbas: Rukanah ibn Abdyazid divorced his wife three times in the same place, and then he was full of grief of having done so. Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) asked him: "How did you divorce her?" Rukanah said: "I have divorced her thrice." The Prophet asked him: "In one session?" He answered: "Yes." The Prophet said: "That is one divorce, and you may return to her if you wish." He revoked the divorce and remarried her." This Hadith tells us that the Prophet himself gave the ruling that a divorce pronounced three times in a succession, or in one place counts only as one divorce. It is well known that a remarriage between a divorced couple can take place if the divorce is taking effect for the first or second time. Indeed, this was the ruling enforced by the Prophet throughout his life, and also enforced throughout the reign of Abu-Bakr and the early period of the reign of Umar. All companions of the Prophet who were alive in that period were unanimous in their acceptance of such a divorce as a single divorce. This ruling, as I have mentioned earlier, is one adopted by a number of renowned scholars, including Imam Ibn Taimiyah and Imam Ibn Al Qayyum. Earlier in this century, when the family law in several countries was enacted, scholars who were entrusted with the task of formulating the Islamic teachings in a well coded family law chose this ruling as the correct one and incorporated in that family law. It was then endorsed by the ruler. As such, it takes a much stronger effect. From a totally different point of view, it is well known that in Islam, when a person says to his wife that she is divorced, intending a termination of his marriage to her, she begins the procedure of divorce [and her waiting period] immediately. She is, technically speaking, a divorcee, but she is observing a waiting period. When he says the same thing to her a second time, whether immediately or a short while afterwards, his statement is no more than an idle talk because she is no longer his wife. How is it possible to divorce a woman who is not one's wife? That is certainly impossible and, therefore, the second and any subsequent utterances of the word of divorce have no significance whatsoever. |
| Re: he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| eleanor |
| 06/21/03 at 12:12:44 |
| [slm] thanks for the contributions this far, but it's a little bit different in this case. The husband is saying that the iarriage is still valid, that he was just kidding around. (don't ask why ::)) And yet the one brother insists that this renders the marriage invalid because you can't call your wife "sister" or "mother" and then sleep with her that night. His intention was not to divorce his wife. I don't know what his intention was/is. |
| Re: he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| a_Silver_Rose |
| 06/22/03 at 00:43:44 |
| [slm] jazak Allah bro Arshad and yes bro Yousef I have heard the same [quote] The husband is saying that the marriage is still valid, that he was just kidding around. (don't ask why ) And yet the one brother insists that this renders the marriage invalid because you can't call your wife "sister" or "mother" and then sleep with her that night. His intention was not to divorce his wife. I don't know what his intention was/is. [/quote] the husband sais it was just a joke..so why is the man making a big deal. maybe they can tell him to provide proof or better yet just leave them alone! Why try to break a marriage ... :( these things just upset me. |
| Re: he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| Nomi |
| 06/22/03 at 09:56:29 |
| [slm] [quote] I heard of someone who as a joke called his wife "sister" or "mother" behind her back or to her face [/quote] Thats what the original question was and today i put it to a shaykh (Mufti) who serves at the islamic university near my place, here is the answer As it was said as a joke so nothing wrong happened, neither the marriage is void nor there is any penalty [slm] Asim Zafar |
| Re: he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| Nabila |
| 06/27/03 at 17:32:42 |
| [slm] Happened to see this in arab news... Calling One’s Wife Mother Q. Is it permissible for me to call my wife ‘Mamma’ to express my appreciation of her kindness? S. Yasin A. The Arabs of pre-Islamic days had a practice of punishing their wives by considering them like their mothers. A man might say to his wife that she was to him like his mother’s back. In this way, he terminates the marriage without divorcing his wife. Islam forbids this practice and prescribes a very heavy punishment for it. Scholars agree that if one calls his wife like a mother, out of kindness or respect, he does not fall in the same category. However, it is better not to resort to such appellations. A husband may express his appreciation of his wife’s love or kindness in a variety of ways. Why should he call her by a name that is normally given to mothers? Arab News Islam 27 June 2003 ma asalaamah and take care |
| Re: he called his wife "sister" |
|---|
| eleanor |
| 06/28/03 at 07:26:14 |
| [slm] Jazak Allah to all who replied - esp. Bro.Nomi and Sis.Murasaki. I think the issue is clear now. :) |
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board |