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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Away from home and alone |
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| Nomi |
| 06/30/03 at 22:02:36 |
| [slm] Are Muslim ladies allowed to stay away from home (alone) when they do have mehrams? e.g. at hostels during studies? Well their friends might be there but they are not accompanied by their mehrams. From what i know its not allowed under islam. What do you say, and what if someone doesn't have any mehram?! wassalam Asim Zafar. |
| 06/30/03 at 22:07:41 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| Nomi |
| 07/02/03 at 10:57:53 |
| [slm] Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, when he was delivering a sermon, “No woman should travel except with a mahram.” A man stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, my wife has set out for Hajj, and I have signed up for such-and-such a military campaign.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Go and do Hajj with your wife.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3006; Muslim, 1341. So it is not permissible for a woman to travel (let alone stay at hostel for study purposes) without a mahram. A mahram is a man whom she is forever forbidden to marry because of blood ties or for a permissible reason. This is also subject to the condition that he be an adult of sound mind. A minor child cannot be a mahram, and neither can one who is not of sound mind. Asim Zafar. |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| jannah |
| 07/02/03 at 12:59:12 |
| [slm] curious you ask a question then answer it? btw fyi there are other opinions on this issue and it definitely takes a scholar to make a judgement when there are alot of circumstances involved... |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| Nomi |
| 07/02/03 at 13:48:28 |
| [slm] [quote author=jannah link=board=madrasa;num=1057034994;start=0#2 date=07/02/03 at 12:59:12][slm] curious you ask a question then answer it? [/quote] What am i supposed to do when no one answers the Q? Yes, you guessed it right, i find the answer for myself :) .... and i paste it here so that others may know too... [slm] Asim Zafar. |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| salaampeaceshalom |
| 07/02/03 at 15:03:35 |
| [slm] there are differences of opinion on this, and I also found the following. I guess u can take and leave whatever u choose to, but thought u may be interested in reading it: www.islamonline.net European Council for Fatwa and Research In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger. Islam cares for the dignity and honor of woman. Because of her weakness and vulnerability to being targeted by vile men, Islam is keen to close the doors to such situations by insisting that a woman should not travel long distances or stay away from home by herself unless she has taken adequate safeguards in order to ensure her own protection. 1. The ruling concerning the woman’s taking permission on leaving home: It is incumbent on the woman to inform her husband when she wants to go outside her home. However, the woman’s leaving her house to work, study or run errands for the home and the children does not require but a general consent on the part of the husband, and the wife does not have to ask permission every time. The matter is subject to common tradition. If the wife’s going out of the house is to visit a family not known to the husband, or if her going out entails staying overnight outside the house, the permission of the husband become necessary. If the husband refuses, the woman shall not go out. Muslim morality also requires that the husband should tell his wife if he wants to travel or stay overnight outside the house, for she has the right to know her husband’s whereabouts when he is absent from home. 2. The ruling regarding a woman’s travel without a mahram This is primarily unlawful according to the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him): “A woman who believes in Allah and the Hereafter shall not travel for (a period of) a day and a night unless accompanied by a mahram of hers.” (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim) Depending on this general text, some scholars are of the opinion that a woman should not travel by herself. Other scholars stipulate that her travel is permissible in the company of a trustworthy group of men or men and women. The prohibition conveyed by the hadith is justified by fearing that the woman may be exposed to mischief or temptation if she travels alone, bearing in mind that the dangers of travel were numerous in the past. Caliph `Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) allowed the Prophet’s wives (Mothers of the Believers) to travel for Hajj with a group of believers and sent with them `Uthman ibn `Affan and `Abdul-Rahman ibn `Auf. In the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to `Adiy ibn Hatim we read: “If you live long, you will see the woman travel from Hirah (a city in Iraq) to circumambulate the Ka`bah fearing none but Allah.” (Reported by al-Bukhari) This confirms that the cause (of the prohibition) is fear (of insecurity). If security is guaranteed and fear is no more present, a woman may travel, particularly nowadays when travel has become easy, whether by air, train or coach. In all these means of transportation, company is available and security is realized for the Muslim woman. This is in respect of the woman’s travel from one town to another or from one country to another and her arrival on the same day of her travel, whereupon she finds company providing security. If the journey requires staying overnight in a hotel on the way, or the journey is intended to perform a certain task that requires residence for a certain period, the woman, in this case, is supposed primarily to travel with a mahram of hers, or reside for the required period with a Muslim family in that country to avoid the likelihood of temptation or mischief the woman may face. Finally, the Council urges parents to bring up their daughters and the husbands to educate their wives according to the guidance of Allah, for a Muslim woman will certainly follow the guidance of Allah steadfastly if she has received her due amount of education and instruction and has learned Allah Almighty knows best. wa'salaam |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| Nomi |
| 07/02/03 at 16:53:26 |
| [quote author=salaampeaceshalom link=board=madrasa;num=1057034994;start=0#4 date=07/02/03 at 15:03:35] In the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to `Adiy ibn Hatim we read: “If you live long, you will see the woman travel from Hirah (a city in Iraq) to circumambulate the Ka`bah fearing none but Allah.” (Reported by al-Bukhari) [/quote] Hirah to ka'bah? fine but what about rest of the world? Well either history has already seen that time or its still to come! coz current era is definitly not the one that is mentioned in the hadith above!! [slm] Asim Zafar. |
| 07/02/03 at 18:14:00 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| muahmed |
| 07/02/03 at 19:23:40 |
| [slm] ;-) One of the fatwas I read on the issue said that the Prophet allowed women to travel in caravans with many other travellers as that provided security. Hence in the current day (according to that scholar) there was no harm in a woman travelling using airplanes as each airplane has staff to ensure the journey is comfortable and safe. Also it is like a caravan in that many travellers travel togather to reach a common destination. The following is my opinion and holds no scholarly credit. It is an OPINION and not a fatwa. Even if you don't agree with that fatwa a father or another mahram can easily escort his daughter to a university, help her get settled in a dorm or apartment. From then on her house is the dorm or apartment and she can study in the university. Especially so if she is living in girls only dorm or has Muslimahs for apartment mates. |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| Nomi |
| 07/03/03 at 08:05:13 |
| [slm] The hadith i quoted above is a direct reference from Bukhari and most of the scholars are of the opinion that Muslim ladies (going by that hadith and few more) aren't allowed to stay even at girls only dorms when they do have mehrams. There are many cons of going againt that ruling, i'm not generalizing here but in many cases it leads to fitna. Ladies are heart of a house but there is a reason behind having men as head of the house !!! Just my opinion, Peace. Asim Zafar |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| lucid9 |
| 07/03/03 at 11:21:33 |
| [quote author=Nomi link=board=madrasa;num=1057034994;start=0#7 date=07/03/03 at 08:05:13] most of the scholars are of the opinion that Muslim ladies (going by that hadith and few more) aren't allowed to stay even at girls only dorms when they do have mehrams. There are many cons of going againt that ruling [/quote] Huh? Who are these "most muslim scholars" you are talking about? Seems highly dubious. I've never heard of such a ruling: that female dorms are to be discouraged. What are people afraid of? That women will become lesbians? Lol! I swear so many muslim men are so paranoid of women, and are so funnily afraid of women turning into nymphomaniacs that they would make their wives wear chastity belts, when not with them, lol! (I almost forgot, they do even worse than that -- they genetically mutilate them at birth -- so the very act becomes painful! Blimey!!) [quote] Ladies are heart of a house but there is a reason behind having men as head of the house !!! [/quote] Pure and simple male chauvanism. Why do pious muslims hold these views when the prophet was the most forward thinking male of his time in terms of the rights and duties of women? What do muslim men want? Do they want women to be uneducated and sit at home and tend to them all day and become baby factories? Where is the justice in such a one-sided perspective? How can there ever be justice in the muslim lands until muslim men are just and fair to members of their own families, let alone being just to those outside of their families --- i.e. the rest of society? And people still wonder why the muslims are so poor and oppressed! Lol! How can they not be oppressed when they oppress themselves.? |
| 07/03/03 at 11:22:10 |
| lucid9 |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| Nomi |
| 07/03/03 at 11:25:01 |
| [slm] You got my post in wrong context. |
| 07/03/03 at 11:27:40 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| muahmed |
| 07/03/03 at 17:02:45 |
| [slm] ;-) Time for fatwa from some religious scholars. Below are excerpts from a yahoo Hanafi fiqh list maintained by scholars in the US and UK who have had traditional training for many years under great shaykhs. Question: What is the ruling on women spending the night outside of their homes without a mahram present? a) As for women spending the night (or longer time) outside their house without a mahram, this would be permitted if the conditions are safe, and no fitna or harm is feared. In fact, scholars have allowed for women to be dropped off in another country by their mahram for the sake of religious learning, as long the above conditions are met. [ my note: most university campuses are safe! ] Question: Can sisters travel in a group without mahram? The travelling question refers to that which is travel beyond city limits for a travelling distance, right? This is a big issue. There are permissive fatwas from some respected, traditional scholars. But safety lies in caution. As such, what I have heard from two fuqaha of great knowledge, wisdom and taqwa, Shaykh Adib al-Kallas of Damascus and Shaykh Mahmoud Ashraf Usmani of Pakistan is that women should NOT do so under normal circumstances. Consult with a reliable traditional scholar, a mufti, of taqwa and righteousness, about such matters. [ my note: Every case is different. In many cases permission maybe given. Also many traditional schoalrs permit it for genuine needs. ] EXAMPLE OF PERMISSIBILITY: Question: there is a sister that is very seriously becoming depressed because her husband refuses to let her visit her family and cannot take her himself... In the case you mentioned, however, I heard directly from Shaykh Wahbi Sulayman Ghawji, a major Albanian-Syrian Hanafi scholar (well into his 80s) whose taqwa and knowledge are beyond question, that he considers it permitted for a woman to travel in order to visit her family if her husband is unable to accompany her, because maintaining family ties is such a serious matter. [ my note: A fatwa can not be given on the basis of one hadith alone without considering other legal sources on the matter. Scholars spend their entire lifetime learning deen. Many things need to be considered when giving a ruling. I see too many people these days who have no training in even the most basic branches like usul-ul-fiqh giving fatwas by qouting some hadith from the english translation of bukhari they have. One should totally abstain from doing so. ] |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| Nomi |
| 07/03/03 at 17:21:27 |
| [slm] [quote author=Muhammad Ahmed link=board=madrasa;num=1057034994;start=0#10 date=07/03/03 at 17:02:45] In fact, scholars have allowed for women to be dropped off in another country by their mahram for the sake of religious learning [/quote] Religious learning? okay thats fine... [quote author=Muhammad Ahmed link=board=madrasa;num=1057034994;start=0#10 date=07/03/03 at 17:02:45] [ my note: most university campuses are safe! ] [/quote] Scholars allowed it for "religious learning" then why did u jump on general learning ?! [quote author=Muhammad Ahmed link=board=madrasa;num=1057034994;start=0#10 date=07/03/03 at 17:02:45] Question: there is a sister that is very seriously becoming depressed because her husband refuses to let her visit her family and cannot take her himself... <permissible> [/quote] Agreed with this part but that doesn't involve studies ! [quote author=Muhammad Ahmed link=board=madrasa;num=1057034994;start=0#10 date=07/03/03 at 17:02:45] [ my note: A fatwa can not be given on the basis of one hadith alone without considering other legal sources on the matter. Scholars spend their entire lifetime learning deen. Many things need to be considered when giving a ruling. I see too many people these days who have no training in even the most basic branches like usul-ul-fiqh giving fatwas by qouting some hadith from the english translation of bukhari they have. One should totally abstain from doing so. ] [/quote] Can not agree with you more, i go by Hanafis as well so i'll have to check it with scholars around me for reassurance and btw my original answer with that hadith and explanation was from a scholar from islam-qa (weren't just my comments) Peace :) Asim Zafar. |
| 07/03/03 at 17:24:29 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| muahmed |
| 07/03/03 at 17:24:23 |
| [slm] ;-) I gave an example of permissibility due to necessity. I could not find an example directly for general learning. The crux of my argument was that permission is given in many cases including religious learning and visiting family. Hence for each case one should present the particular conditions to a scholar and get an answer. A general answer is hard to give and under normal circumstances you are right, it is not permissible. |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 07/03/03 at 17:31:59 |
| [slm] check out this link: http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/madina/YaBB.pl?board=library;action=display;num=1052421493;start=0 |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| a_Silver_Rose |
| 07/03/03 at 17:44:02 |
| [slm] [quote]The hadith i quoted above is a direct reference from Bukhari and most of the scholars are of the opinion that Muslim ladies (going by that hadith and few more) aren't allowed to stay even at girls only dorms when they do have mehrams. There are many cons of going againt that ruling, i'm not generalizing here but in many cases it leads to fitna. [/quote] well than if you are using this reason, then if a man lives in dorms it can also lead to fitnah does this mean a man cannot live in dorms? Anyhow where is your proof that ladies arent allowed to stay in girl only dorms? the hadith you provided does not state that, it says a woman cannot 'travel' here is the hadith: [quote]Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, when he was delivering a sermon, “No woman should travel except with a mahram.” A man stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, my wife has set out for Hajj, and I have signed up for such-and-such a military campaign.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Go and do Hajj with your wife.” [/quote] so Brother Muhammad makes a good point: [quote]Even if you don't agree with that fatwa a father or another mahram can easily escort his daughter to a university, help her get settled in a dorm or apartment. From then on har house is the dorm or apartment and she can study in the university. Especially so if she is living in girls only dorm or has Muslimahs for apartment mates. [/quote] so she is not traveling alone but now the dorm/apartment is her house, insh'Allah... |
| 07/05/03 at 19:44:02 |
| a_Silver_Rose |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| se7en |
| 07/04/03 at 00:24:19 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah, I'd like to remind everyone that discussion/arguments on issues in which there are differences of opinion among scholars is not allowed on the board as per the Constitution, Article 3, Part 2, and Part 5. [color=black]This is not a Fiqh discussion board. Prolonged threads arguing over Fatwas and the details of Islamic law will be closed. Avoid asking questions that require a scholar or Shaykh, as there is no one on the board qualified to answer your questions. Please use other knowledgeable means such as a scholar, Imam or knowledgeable person in your area. [/color] Jazakum Allahu khayran. wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah |
| 07/04/03 at 00:24:50 |
| se7en |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| Nomi |
| 07/04/03 at 06:09:41 |
| [slm] [quote author=a silverose link=board=madrasa;num=1057034994;start=0#14 date=07/03/03 at 17:44:02] well than if you are using this reason, then if a man lives in dorms it can also lead to fitnah does this mean a man cannot live in dorms? [/quote] Travelling with a "Mahram" is something ordained on ladies by Allah [swt] and as we are "equal not similar" so not all the rules that apply to men are for women and vice versa so neither can one ask a man to observe hijab nor a lady to grow a beard ! [quote author=a silverose link=board=madrasa;num=1057034994;start=0#14 date=07/03/03 at 17:44:02] so Brother Muhammad makes a good point: so she is not traveling alone but now the dorm/apartment is her house, insh'Allah...[/quote] I think we should read bro Muhammad's last post again! ... it says its permissible for "religious study" Thanks for the alert sis se7en, i'm out of here... [slm] Asim Zafar |
| 07/04/03 at 16:55:48 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Away from home and alone |
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| Anonymous |
| 07/05/03 at 12:49:59 |
| [quote]Religious learning? okay thats fine... Scholars allowed it for "religious learning" then why did u jump on general learning ?![/quote] The seperation of religious knowledge and secular knowledge is a recent phenomenon. So what you might consider as secular knowledge back then would have been considered as part of the religious education. It's all based on intention. |
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