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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| Anonymous |
| 07/05/03 at 12:49:04 |
| Ok, some of you may find this pretty gross, but I have learned that many upright muslim guys do their business standing up (the number 1, not number 2), and not sitting or crouching as the Prophet asked his followers to do. You might consider me to be obsessive compellish -- but I find this rather disturbing, particularly when these brothers then go and lead the prayer. The prophet warned the sahaba about standing because the stuff reflects off the ground/toilet and back onto one's clothes. And I cannot see how brothers avoid this problem when using the toilet standing up. In fact in one incident, the Prophet (saw) passed by a grave of a practicing muslim and became very disturbed. This was apparently because the dead man was being tortured for not keeping his clothes clean while praying -- i.e. he used to do his business standing up. Now, can someone please explain to me why some of our very lovely brothers engage in such un-lovely behaviour. I worry about them, and am fearful that Allah will not listen to some of their very noble dua simply because of their utter carelessness in abiding by the easily followed rules of religious cleanliness. As salamu alaikum |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| muahmed |
| 07/05/03 at 16:01:53 |
| [slm] ;-) You ask a question that can only scrap some worth from a philoshopical view point. It is useless to ask "why do people (put anything here)?" |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| superFOB |
| 07/06/03 at 07:10:11 |
| [slm] One of the unfortunate aspects of living in the west is the leading of salaat by people who fail to comply with the shariah, intentionally or otherwise. Using urinals is just one of them. Its pointless to talk to them directly as they are the 'imams' and you wouldn't know better. Three things that I recommend for all brothers: [list][*]Repeat the salaat if you are not satisfied with the imam. Do not leave the jamaah though. [*]If the imam can be just anyone from the mussallees, try to lead the prayer yourself, if you fulfill the sharee requirements for imamah.[*]Pray for the guidance of the ummah.[/list] |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| Tesseract |
| 07/07/03 at 03:08:33 |
| Assalamu 'alaikum, [quote]Three things that I recommend for all brothers: Repeat the salaat if you are not satisfied with the imam. Do not leave the jamaah though. [/quote] Can u please provide some source to support ur recommendation from shara'ee point of view. There can be several reasons for not being satisfied with the imam, and almost all the muqtadees (followers) can have something to be dissatisfied with, e.g the length of the beard. Different people follow different opinions on this beard issue. Do u think all those who are dissatisfied with the beard of the imam shall repeat their salaah? I appreciate ur comments. JazaakAllah khair, Wassalamu 'alaikum. |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| superFOB |
| 07/07/03 at 03:46:25 |
| [wlm] As far as differences in sharee requirements are concerned, there are set rules. Please ask your favorite scholar in detail. No, length of beard is not a valid excuse for not following an imam according to scholars, whose opinions, I follow. That said, lets get back to the original posting. We were talking about urnine on the clothes. One of the "ijtihad" in the west is to make all of the mussallees imam, in rotation, or by some other rule. Of course this has no basis in fiqh and is just a tool for "democratizing" the position of the imam or for realizing some other misplaced, albeit sincere, intention. Urine on ones clothes invalidates the salaat of that person, and a person who is not careful in this regard can not lead salaat. If you come to know of such behavior, you can not pray behind thap person. If the salaat of the imam is invalid, so is the salaat of the mussallees. Husn uz zan is advised as always. This is all common sense my dear brother. I won't provide you with references in any case :) |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| muahmed |
| 07/07/03 at 09:20:06 |
| [slm] ;-) Correct me if I am wrong, but in hanafi fiqh atleast, if the amount of nijasa on your clothes is very small (I think if it is less than a small coin) then salat will be valid though ofcourse it is best to avoid nijasa altogather. Hence the salat will be valid, for hanafis, if the imam was careful not to get too much urine on his clothes (with too much being it making a spot bigger than a coin). |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| asap |
| 07/15/03 at 04:33:02 |
| Salam warahamtullah, Well, do brothers and sisters know that herpes (an infection that infects the genital area and produce sores) is very common in US. Almost 20% of populace has it. Much more so in the teens. In fact on a campus as much as 70% have it. Okay so it spreads mainly through sexual intercourse but it can also spread by touching objects such as a toilet seat or hot tub. And it is for life once you got it because there is no permanent cure for it. It is highly advisable to clean toilet seats before using it in a public place and the best to avoid it if you can. Secondly, using urinal standing does violate the sunnah but it is not exactly as 'the stuff reflects off the ground/toilet and back onto one's clothes' because you are not peeing on the ground ::) Think over it! My point cleanliness and staying away from what is harmful (an infection in this case) is more important. wa salam asap. PS: Do not dismiss herpes as something of a nuisance only b'cos it can cause serious relationship problem with your spouse if one of them has it. |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| Tesseract |
| 07/15/03 at 06:28:58 |
| Wa'alaikum Assalam wa Rahamtullah bro., [quote]Okay so it spreads mainly through sexual intercourse but it can also spread by touching objects such as a toilet seat or hot tub. And it is for life once you got it because there is no permanent cure for it.[/quote] Where did u get this from bro.? I don't think so that's true. There are 2 types of Herpes simplex virus: HSV type 1 and 2. Which one are u talking about? |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| asap |
| 07/16/03 at 04:01:35 |
| Salam Alaikum warahmatullah, Well bro, I got it from NIH site (National Institute of Health). The link is here: [url]http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/stdherp.htm[/url] Please go to the section "How does someone get genital herpes?" Although it says that it rarely spreads by touching objects such as a toilet seat, they dont have definite data on it. It is so hard to filter it in a society where people are sexually active since early teens. wa salam asap |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| superFOB |
| 07/16/03 at 04:13:49 |
| [slm] Herpes or not, its a good idea to thoroughly clean the toilet seat before using. Put a couple of paper seats as well. They have plenty of these in the public restrooms, so use them. Public restrooms, especially in the freeway rest areas get filthy fairly quickly. Its horrible. But I must commend the way the restrooms are kept reasonably clean in most cities and public places I have been to, in the US. And the toilet seat is a wonderful idea. But don't expect to find these and even toilet paper in rural or less developed areas. I revert to desi mode in such situations. PS: The above applies to US cities in general. |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| faisalsb |
| 07/16/03 at 04:23:08 |
| [slm] [quote]Correct me if I am wrong, but in hanafi fiqh atleast, if the amount of nijasa on your clothes is very small (I think if it is less than a small coin)[/quote] Brother Mohammad Ahmed I think you are refering to the fatwa of Imam Abu Hanina rehmatullah alieh. I heard this story from one of our relative: Once someone asked Abu Hanifa, "How much nijasa is must to be cleaned or washed out?" He replied, "If the effected area is equal to or bigger than one dirham coin then you must clean it" Some time back same guy saw Imam Abu Hanifa had a small spot of nijasa on his clothes but he started washing it. The man asked "Ya Imam according to your fatwa you are not supposed to wash your clothes?" Imam Abu Hanifa replied, "That was fatwa and this is taqwa" ............ |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| bismilla |
| 07/22/03 at 10:59:56 |
| [slm] I don't mean any disrespect, but i was wondering why some mosques frown on "high pans" and prefer the "eastern" or "low" pans? Is there perhaps a good reason behind this, backed by Haadith or perhaps just a traditional prefernce that is once again being made into Law? .....[slm] |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| chokoz |
| 07/22/03 at 15:39:21 |
| [quote]I heard this story from one of our relative: [/quote] Can you please provide sources to verify whether Imam Abu Hanifa actually said the statments that have been posted. It is important to verify what we hear because we may spread incorrect information unintentionally. That is why I would like to see the evidences for the statements attributed to Imam Abu Hanifa. |
| NS |
| Re: To Stand or To Sit: Male Toiletry Habits |
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| Zahra |
| 07/25/03 at 17:12:58 |
| [slm] The reason why some people a low toilet rather than a high toilet is because with a low toilet your body does not come into contact with any part of the toilet whreras with the high toilet you are placing your bottom where lots of others have placed theirs leading to a higher risk of infection etc.What do you guys think? |
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