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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| the rock star and the mullahs |
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| se7en |
| 07/09/03 at 21:37:15 |
| DOCUMENTARY ON MUSIC AND ISLAM TO BE AIRED ON PBS http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/about/film_s2_f2.html The Rock Star and the Mullahs, produced and directed by Angus Macqueen and Ruhi Hamid will be airing on Thursday, July 17, 9pm (check the TV schedule for local listings). The documentary will feature, Salman Ahmad, the charismatic lead guitarist for the popular Pakistani rock group Junoon. Inspired by the ancient Sufi tradition, the band's music and lyrics reflect the moderate, liberal side of Islam. WIDE ANGLE follows Salman as he journeys from the tolerant streets of Lahore to Peshawar, where politically powerful and conservative mullahs want to ban music. This film presents a rich and intimate portrait of modern day Pakistan, a pivotal nation in the war against terror. |
| 07/09/03 at 21:41:31 |
| se7en |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| AyeshaZ |
| 07/10/03 at 02:17:09 |
sigh!! man gotta see this!! :o |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| Nomi |
| 07/10/03 at 09:01:45 |
| [slm] Junoon THE "sufi pop group".... and now use media to bash mullahs... *sigh* Junoon once performed at my college (organizers happened to be my friends) but Backbiting isn't a good idea so i can't tell you about "sufi pop group++" !! But i guess we should only be concerned about their music, so yes, i like few numbers of theirs... |
| 07/10/03 at 09:23:50 |
| Nomi |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| theOriginal |
| 07/10/03 at 17:07:22 |
| [slm] The liberal side of Islam??!!! Why should Salman Ahmed be representing any side of Islam...he's not exactly an authority in the religion. If anything, yes I respect his political beliefs, and I applaud his stance on AIDS awareness in Pakistan, but as a musician representing Islam....I don't know...that's kinda comical. Okay yes their music is heavily influenced by some Islamic ideologies (if that), but...hmm...(Okay, and am I the only person who feels that their music expresses an extremely ascentic but cuckoo bend to their views on religion? Honestly, some of their songs make me feel ill.) And I think we all know what bro. Nomi is referring to. It's not exactly a well-kept secret. If that is the liberal side of Islam, then the documentary should be very...hmm...interesting. If anyone watches it, let me know if it was any good. Wasalaam. |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| muahmed |
| 07/10/03 at 17:27:04 |
| [slm] I will try to watch it, but I don't know if I can survive through all of it. Junoon representing sufism? ! :o :( Everyone is bent upon defaming poor sufis. I always wonder how people can like these entertainment business people, music stars and the like. After all if you through money at them they would strip of all hayaa, jump on a stage and do weird bodily motions. |
| Paki singers JUNOON on PBS tonite! |
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| asalkuur |
| 07/17/03 at 15:36:48 |
| [slm] I found about this yesterday. Didn't know where else to post it for people who are interested. PBS usually does good documentaries, but I don't know why they chose to make one about Junoon when they could have covered more important topics in the Muslim world. Anyways, lets check out how it is. salaams http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/ http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/about/film_s2_f2.html The Rock Star and the Mullahs Producer/Directors: Angus Macqueen and Ruhi Hamid Thursday, July 17, 9pm (check the TV schedule for local listings) Salman Ahmad is the charismatic lead guitarist for the popular Pakistani rock group, Junoon. Inspired by the ancient Sufi tradition, the band's music and lyrics reflect the moderate, liberal side of Islam. WIDE ANGLE follows Salman as he journeys from the tolerant streets of Lahore to Peshawar, where politically powerful and conservative mullahs want to ban music. This film presents a rich and intimate portrait of modern day Pakistan, a pivotal nation in the war against terror. |
| Re: Paki singers JUNOON on PBS tonite! |
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| Trustworthy |
| 07/18/03 at 14:11:31 |
| [slm] I saw that special and I agree, there could've been something more important then his plight to prove his music is justified Islamically. The hair has to go. And him singing the verses of the Qur'an with a guitar is haram. How can he not see that? Well he also implied that he doesn't pray 5 times a day. But he says he's a Muslim so more powere to you. Ma-asalaama.... |
| Re: Paki singers JUNOON on PBS tonite! <+th> |
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| ascetic |
| 07/18/03 at 19:57:00 |
| [slm], I happened to turn on the tv when this was airing on KQED and the program was really sad. The gist of the program was that Salman Ahmed (one of the members of Junoon) was trying to figure out why singing/playing music was haram when it gave him so much 'peace'. Instead of going to a learned scholar, (heck, he should have picked up a phone and called Yusuf Islam!) he goes to Mullah 'Bijli' from Peshawar who gives him an earful rhetoric without any explanations. Salman then goes to a madrasah where he meets w/ the students and tries to convince them that he gets in touch w/ God through music and sings "rabbana aatina fid-dunya ... " while strumming the guitar (audhu billah). The sorry part of the program was how they were showing un-islamic concepts and calling that "moderate Islam" while branding someone who was wearing a beard and following the sunnah as an "extremist". While this is not something new, I didn't expect it from PBS. --Zahid. |
| Re: Paki singers JUNOON on PBS tonite! |
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| Trustworthy |
| 07/18/03 at 20:19:15 |
| [slm] Yeah. And what bro Zahid said too. Ma-asalaama.... |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| bhaloo |
| 07/19/03 at 00:55:50 |
| [slm] [quote] Inspired by the ancient Sufi tradition, the band's music and lyrics reflect the moderate, liberal side of Islam. [/quote] [quote] The sorry part of the program was how they were showing un-islamic concepts and calling that "moderate Islam" while branding someone who was wearing a beard and following the sunnah as an "extremist". [/quote] I've read about the practices of these people and what scholars have said, but now I was able to see first hand on TV the things they do, and it was very disturbing. There were a group of people dancing out of control as some sort of ibadah. One guy was spinning around in circles and another was moving his body around as if he had been electrocuted. Then they interviewed one man who was taking part in a procession to the grave of a sufi saint (and while the procession was travelling they were playing music). He said that they are going to this grave to pray TO this saint (who is dead by the way) . (I'm not talking about praying FOR, but praying TO this guy). This is what the person that was being interviewed said. I guess his reasoning was he wanted this dead saint to help him. I think unfortunately these practices are very common in Pakistan. There was also a caller who asked a member of Junoon (I think it was Salman Ahmad) if he was religious, if he prayed 5 times a day. He didn't want to answer and laughed a little bit. |
| 07/19/03 at 00:58:13 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| Kathy |
| 07/19/03 at 06:16:07 |
| [slm] I too only caught the last ten minutes. My heart sank as I watched the guy play the stringed instrument.... On a positive note, I was able to finally understand a concept, that a one language person can not grasp.... What gets lost in the translation. At the end they had a man/ scholar? (not sure who he was) sing a song- in his language- about Madina and Prophet Muhammad [saw] The beauty of the tone and sound was meserimizing. As he was singing the translation was at the bottom of the screen. The meaning of the song was great. Of course, in English the words did not rhyme. If I had read the words of the song in a book, there would have been no impact. But the song still flows in my mind. I think, finally, I understand what people mean when they speak of the Qu'ran and how much we miss in the translation. I wonder how many other people will naturally be drawn to the old man's song... as I do not remember the stringed guys now... |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| jannah |
| 07/19/03 at 07:02:35 |
| [wlm] kathy that guy singing was the infamous "mullah bijli" the electric mullah who apparently gives electricifying sermons and also stated that the only way for peace to be found on earth was to lock up your women and keep them in their homes and go to jihad or some such... i think the point they were trying to prove was that he sang a type of song or music.. yet said it was 'forbidden in islam' for salman to do it. i watched the second hour at least if it was 2 hours? anyway i find it interesting how they depicted things.. i doubt if it was maliciously on purpose, but it ended up with suave, british-accent, designer clothes and sunglasses salman talking about a "free islam" where anyone could interpret the 'holy book', versus the backwards big beard brainwashed & brainwashing mullahs talking about wack things. i know people think that the media and the gov't are deliberately pushing this secular, 'soft' anyone can 'interpret' type islam versus mainstream "orthodox" islam... but to be honest we really do have this separation among muslims. to me that show just highlighted the two extremes that we have in the ummah... both of whom should not be speaking on behalf of islam... one truly irreligious 'i'll do whatever i want' despite islam the second, the 'islam says this and only this and if u don't do it ur a kaffir' ppl. one side needs to realize it has to come back to the original teachings to interpret what is right and wrong and leave their own wants and opinions to the wayside while doing that. the other side has to realize that there is alot of flexibility and leeway in islam and to say that such and such is THE way and the ONLY way is doing a complete disservice to this deen. in fact, both are doing more harm to the deen that can be said. anway just some thoughts........ oh yeah the guy wasn't necessarily singing the quran.. he was singing a dua which just happens to be in the quran... |
| 07/19/03 at 07:06:00 |
| jannah |
| Re: Paki singers JUNOON on PBS tonite! |
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| dhameer |
| 07/19/03 at 10:42:33 |
| [quote author=zahid link=board=kabob;num=1057797435;start=0#7 date=07/18/03 at 19:57:00] [slm], Salman then goes to a madrasah where he meets w/ the students and tries to convince them that he gets in touch w/ God through music and sings "rabbana aatina fid-dunya ... " while strumming the guitar (audhu billah). The sorry part of the program was how they were showing un-islamic concepts and calling that "moderate Islam" while branding someone who was wearing a beard and following the sunnah as an "extremist". While this is not something new, I didn't expect it from PBS. --Zahid. [/quote] The Rock artists always remind me of these veres in the Quran Surah Ash-Shuraa [quote] 221. Shall I inform you, (O people!), on whom it is that the evil ones descend? 222. They descend on every lying, wicked person, 223. (Into whose ears) they pour hearsay vanities, and most of them are liars. 224. And the Poets,- It is those straying in Evil, who follow them: 225. Seest thou not that they wander distracted in every valley?- 226. And that they say what they practise not?- [/quote] Its very difficult to sing and live exactly you describe in your song. You can sing about Peace and all and still be the troubled, insecure soul underneath. Only a poet/singer can himself/herself answer this truly. What are the effects of these singers on our children? Better left unsaid.... Anyway Islam is much beyond the music and rhetoric. [slm] |
| 07/19/03 at 10:47:38 |
| dhameer |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| Aurora |
| 07/20/03 at 01:05:27 |
| [quote author=jannah link=board=kabob;num=1057797435;start=0#11 date=07/19/03 at 07:02:35][wlm] kathy that guy singing was the infamous "mullah bijli" the electric mullah who apparently gives electricifying sermons and also stated that the only way for peace to be found on earth was to lock up your women and keep them in their homes and go to jihad or some such... i think the point they were trying to prove was that he sang a type of song or music.. yet said it was 'forbidden in islam' for salman to do it.[/quote] Please correct me if i'm wrong, but you're talking about Bijli Gar Mullah, right? (Translated means "Electric House" Mullah) As the mosque where he gives his khutbah is next to a electric power station. Personally speaking, he does come off very strong, I know my dad's hit the fwd button a few times while listening to his taped khutbahs in the car. It comes with the territory I guess, its not exactly right, but I can understand where he's coming from and so what he says isn't offensive, its a cultural thing, pashtun/pakhtun culture is very male-oriented/dominated, but that does not mean the women of that culture are oppressed I know it probably sounds like i'm contradicting myself, its complicated ;) But anyways last time I was in nwfp I heard his daughter was running for a political position so that should tell you something about his 'lock women up in their houses' line. Like Kathy said a lot gets lost in translation. Just a cent and a half :) |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| jannah |
| 07/20/03 at 02:45:35 |
| [wlm] I don't know who he is except for how the documentary portrayed him. As for something being lost in the translation I heard him say it in urdu and understood what he was saying. It translates out the same if worse in urdu :) What he says may not be offensive and is cultural to some, but it's offensive to me when he's saying it under the guise of being a scholar/mullah of Islam. |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| Aurora |
| 07/20/03 at 17:56:12 |
| I'm sorry, I was under the impression he gave most if not all of his talks in pashto. People love listening to him because of the way he talks, really down to earth, simple, understandable and thats why he's become so popular in the frontier region, but he's also become infamous for that same reason,( the way he expresses himself), i.e. his misogynistic tendencies. I'm not trying to justify what he does, nor did I intend to excuse his actions in my previous reply....all I was trying to do was I guess give a sense of understanding. Anyways I guess I mucked that one up. I apologize again. |
| 07/20/03 at 17:57:30 |
| Aurora |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| siddiqui |
| 07/22/03 at 11:45:07 |
| [slm] [quote]What he says may not be offensive and is cultural to some, but it's offensive to me when he's saying it under the guise of being a scholar/mullah of Islam[/quote] When you go to Peshwar to tell him off dude could u pick up one of those fancy kufis for me please ;-) [wlm] |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| WhiteSomali |
| 07/22/03 at 12:11:46 |
| [slm] [quote] The hair has to go[/quote] Just wondering how long his hair is? I saw a picture of him, it only looked like shoulder length. Is it shoulder length or is it longer? Sorry I didn't see the show so I'm working off of one picture ::) But actually if its shoulder length, you can't say anything because that's Sunnah. ANyway, from what you guys wrote, this guy sounds way wayyy to liberal, to the extent that he's not reppin the "modern, liberal side of Islam", but he seems to have invented his own religion based upon the beliefs that there is one God, Muhammad is his messenger, and we can do whatever we want. ::) I'm sure there weren't any bad intentions with the making of the program, but it really didn't work out if it's telling people that all this unIslamic and even Haram stuff is the "good" Islam, and that those of us who follow the religion as Allah revealed it must be Talibans. ::) [slm] |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| timbuktu |
| 07/26/03 at 22:37:08 |
| [slm] there are millions of ppl out there who believe in the sort of things taught in these madaris by the likes of Mullah Bijli Ghar. & it is a very opinionated society. Most of these madaris teach sectarian taqleed, & closing of minds. They just will not listen to reason, just their mullah's mullah's mullah. but i would not deride them. this system did produce some outstanding ppl. & the English college or university education produced only clerical & obstructionist minds. The mullahs are suppposed to be producing obscurantist minds. which is better, i dont know? the tragedy is that these madaris provide free shelter, clothing & literacy to these children who would otherwise starve or end up as criminals. |
| 07/26/03 at 22:44:53 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: the rock star and the mullahs |
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| UmmZaid |
| 07/30/03 at 02:30:50 |
| [slm] (rant on) Oh I'm so glad someone else saw this, only b/c now I have the opportunity to say how much this documentary sickened and irritated me. The brother is right, you expect this type of stuff, but not this level of ignorance from PBS... BTW, from what I remember, Mr. Junoon did make it a point to say that what he was going to sing with music was from the Qur'an. He didn't say "just happens to be," he made a point of saying that they were Qu'ranic verses, and he is going to show those ig'nant ol' madrassah boys how "beautiful" music can be by singing the Holy Qur'an to music. I commend the madrassah students on their restraint and good adab. I am half a world away watching it on tape and I personally found it extremely offensive and had a very visceral gut reaction to it. Mr. Junoon said that he "never found" any scholar who could explain to him why music would be haram... doesn't this guy have access to the internet? (Beyond that... the only scholar he can find in all of Pakistan is the Electric Mullah?) Hanafi fiqh forum has posted several times detailed explanations of the issue, and that's just ONE place where you can find it. All I could think about was the hadith of the Messenger [saw] about how at the end of time, there will be people in the Ummah who hold musical instruments (among other things) to be halal. Yah, and the other thing was how this individual is held up as the beacon of "moderate" and "tolerant" Islam, while you know, the "traditional" face of Islam is the Electric Mullah, and no one else. B/C the bottom line is that the idea is that if you don't line up with the kind of rhetoric spouted by Mr. Junoon (or any of the other "progressives" out there), then you're pretty much labeled a foot soldier for bin Ladin or something. It's as though shades of grey, and a variety of opinions and distinctions are allowed for Christians, Jews, Buddhists, everyone else but the Muslims, who must be in black and white and must be either or. Also, I find it hard to believe that they can honestly say that no one they interviewed explained the difference between singing nasheeds and what music is. (and ugh when they talked about... "singing" the Qur'an and call to prayer? OK. Maybe it is singing, but I know I'm not the only one who associates "singing" with things like Brittney Spears and not Qari Sa'ad al Ghamdi...) Anyway, of course the objective was to portray "conservatives" or traditionals or whatever the label is today as "hypocrites" whlie of course ,the Rock Star isn't. I'll stop now. ::) |
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