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| What should she do? |
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| Anonymous |
| 07/16/03 at 02:51:15 |
| [slm] I have a Muslimah freind who has been married to her husband for several years. From the outside looking in, their relationship is unusual. Her husband does not work and she works all the time. They have 2 children and her mother watches the children (practically lives with the grandma) Her husband refuses to watch because he doesn't feel obligated to since he's the man and he has enough troubles worrying about financial situation. He has ideas of running a business yet does not persue them because he thinks he isn't capable to. His brother gave him a business now for him to run and keep the profits yet (in my opinion) he doesn't do it so well since he makes very little. The wife does not know what to do. Another problem she tells me is that he doesn't love her. He doesn't hate her, but he doesn't love her. She's asked for a divorce 3 times but he won't give her one b/c he feels family togtherness is more important then her selfish needs of a loving husband. (I think b/c she makes the money). Another problem is that his Islamic practices are'nt so good. He plays the lottery once in a while (hoping to hit the jackpot one day). He knows it's haram, but he says it's ok if when he wins, he will borrow and then pay them back. He prays, but prays late and once in a while go to the Masjid. SOmetimes he'll wait til Fajr time to make up the prayers he missed from Zhur to Esha, the last day. They used to argue all the time and now I think she's just given up on him b/c she's exhausted. She doesn't want to be his mother. There are more problems, but I think these ones are major. I don't know what to tell her. She is a good wife and tries her best to be one. But no one supports her decision in divorce except for me. The Imam told her that love is not the basis for marraige in Islam and b/c he does not abuse her then there aren't any good grounds for a divorce. She's going by what the Imam says (she's asked 2) and still unhappy but not showing it. She just comes to me b/c she trusts me. I don't know what to tell her. Can anyone help, please? Jazakhullahu Khairum. |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| salaampeaceshalom |
| 07/16/03 at 09:11:24 |
| [slm] poor lady, sounds like she's having it tough. I don't understand though, I would have thought that she did have reasons for a divorce, the fact that the husband isn't helping out with the house, the children, financially? So what exactly is he doing? For real, I can't believe the Imams have said she has no grounds for divorce. And the fact that he doesn't seem to be really practising Islaam doesn't bother them?? Maybe she needs to find better Imams who have a real understanding of what life must be like for her, rather than ones who would like women to continue to plod through life with a husband like that who is emotionally and mentally draining and doesn't seem to have a real reason to be around, other than to say to the kids, 'oh hey yeh, I'm your dad, helped produce you, yep that's me, don't mind me while I just sit here and do nothing'. Ok, sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I could go on and on, but I won't. I also think it's pretty obvious how the wife is going to be affected psychologically, as well as the kids. And remember children learn fom observing others, and the first people who become their role models so to speak, are the parents. So I hate to think what her children are learning from their dad. So maybe she needs to find an Imam who is willing to listen and to be more active. For instance, to really understand how everyone's lives are being affected by the inactivity of the father, and to suggest ways on how to deal with this, even if it's not via divorce. An Imam who is also willing to talk to the husband, hear his side, and to give him suggestions on what he can do. Is there no-one else in the family who is willing to talk to the husband and see what's going on and how they can help out? Erm, individual and family therapy? Just seems that the husband must have some issues that need to be looked at and dealt with. Seems to have low self-esteem, especially if he thinks he's not capable of running a business. Ok well, am sorry I couldn't come up with something really amazing, but I think it's really sweet of you to come on here and ask for advice, because it shows how much u really care for your friend and want to help. I hope all works out for your friend and her family, and that you continue to be patient and have strength to help them deal with this insha'Allaah wa'salaam |
| 07/16/03 at 09:15:17 |
| salaampeaceshalom |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| Trustworthy |
| 07/16/03 at 12:58:58 |
| [slm] I hate to hear situations as these. I've known some and all you can do is be there for your freind since she feels like you're the only one that listens. I wish I had hadiths to give you about a husband's roles and duties b/c it doesn't seem like he understands them. I'm not sure how love fits in Islamic marriages either. When I talk to Mom about it, she makes sense in saying that there should be love and for the husband not to love her is like using her like a free prostitute. I don't know what I'm talking about. If the Imams don't understand the situation, I suggest looking for someone who is above him and telling it like it is at home. How you are so affected by it and not leave anything out. Maybe go back to your Imam and explain it in full detail. You can go with her just in case she needs your help in explaining it. Sometimes it's hard to explain it when your emotional. I know some of the wives in my community have me go with them because they are embarrassed to speak to the Imam about such things. Try that and ask the Imam to show you some hadiths and duas to help the situation. Insha Allah, things will work out for your freind. There is nothing you can do but just to be there for her. Ma-asalaama..... |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| Nomi |
| 07/16/03 at 17:39:58 |
| [slm] [quote author=Trustworthy link=board=madrasa;num=1058334675;start=0#2 date=07/16/03 at 12:58:58] she makes sense in saying that there should be love and for the husband not to love her is like using her like a free prostitute. [/quote] Sorry, i quite disagree. They are in the bond of marriage for God sake :( [quote author=Trustworthy link=board=madrasa;num=1058334675;start=0#2 date=07/16/03 at 12:58:58]I don't know what I'm talking about. [/quote] That i agree with as far as that comment is concerned. There are lots of ups and downs in life, one can't just escape this by means of divorce. I dont think that this particular case has its solution in divorce either as there are no grounds. How weak will ppl make this relationship of marriage ??? wife says: "Honey do u love me?" Hubby says: 'no", wife: "i want divorce !!!". Sorry i'm taking it way too far but the impression of few lines of the posts above is portraying marriage as a very weak relation. Divorce isn't the first things one should think of or tell others about! Yes that guy needs to be corrected, get some respectable person of the family talking to him, some good friends of his, try to convince him to fulfill his duties as a husband. InshAllah he will but if he still doesn't then keep praying and trying. Another way to look at it is, what if someone's husband get disabled ? should a wife ask for divorce then ??? |
| 07/16/03 at 17:43:39 |
| Nomi |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| Trustworthy |
| 07/16/03 at 19:18:55 |
| [slm] Ohh maaan!!! Bro Nomi.... How can I put this so that it makes sense? Let's see if I can the situation on you? What if it was you? You love your wife dearly, but she does nothing. You have children but she does not take care of them. Let's you take care of them. She does not clean house since she's always thought it was a servants job and she isn't your servant. She doesn't cook b/c she's lazy to learn how so you eat out every night. She doesn't work b/c it's not her duty to help with that stuff. She just uses you for your money and let's you have her whenever you call yet she feels nothing in doing so. And she says she does not love you, but she does not hate you when you ask and you love her so much. You wouldn't ask for a divorce or is it different for a man? Now this lady, sounds like a good wife and loves her husband and her husband thinks she's selfish for wanting the love in return? Yes it's a bond from Allah (SWT), but maybe her marraige was only to last for so long. It might be a time for a divorce. I mean doesn't abuse include emotional as well? If my husband didn't love me and I'd be like what for? It's not like you love me or anything. So what's your answer if this happened to you? Ma-asalaama.... |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| Nomi |
| 07/16/03 at 20:01:38 |
| First off, may Allah save us from such a situation. Now to answer your Q? 1** I would not go flat out and divorce her, i'll keep trying to correct her and i've got enough faith in Allah, the abilities He [swt] has blessed me with and humans not being hard-wired-robots! to think positive. 2** I would never ever think of her as a free prosi !!!!!!!!! and how come the opinion of that scholar was easily trashed? just because what he said doesn't conform with our non-scholarly ideas? does it makes him a "jahil" (ignorant) scholar ??? |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| Trustworthy |
| 07/16/03 at 20:15:11 |
| [slm] "First off, may Allah save us from such a situation. " Insha-Allah. And of course you wouldn't think that way about her because you love her, but what if she thought that about you? (free ***) I never trashed those Imams. I said may be she didn't say it like it was and may be the Imams did not understand the situation of abuse. She asked 2. My Imam said cause I asked him about it, says love does not constitute a marraige but it helps the bond and the Prophet (SAW) loved his wives. But abuse includes physical, verbal, and emotional and if the wife has been trying to work things out as best she could and he is the same person and she is still not happy then there is grounds for a divorce. But to always try before divorcing. I mean look at him. He prays late, doesn't go to masjid all the time, gambles, doesn't help, doesn't work, seems to me he doesn't care. What I don't get it is how they end up together? Arranged? Allahu Alim... ma-asalaama.... |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| Caraj |
| 07/16/03 at 20:37:42 |
| Anon, I think you're already saying and doing the right things cause she trusts you. Unfortunatly you can't make things better for her in any other way than being there for her and being a trusted friend which you already are doing. She can cry, talk and vent and share her situation with you and that is a biggie. Sometimes just listening to a person in that situation helps cause while they are talking, they are processing it all in their head. She is blessed to have you to be able to go to. Many don't even have that. Is there someone above an Imam, like a district Imam of an area? Is her Imam not willing to go and talk with her husband? |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| deenb4dunya |
| 07/16/03 at 21:06:09 |
| Assalamu Alaikum, Just curious... [quote]The wife does not know what to do. Another problem she tells me is that he doesn't love her. He doesn't hate her, but he doesn't love her. She's asked for a divorce 3 times but he won't give her one b/c he feels family togtherness is more important then her selfish needs of a loving husband. (I think b/c she makes the money). [/quote] If a woman asks for a divorce 3x, she still isn't granted it unless the hubby approves? Then how do women get out of abusive marriages with power-hungry, controlling husbands? Maybe I misunderstood. If someone can clarify that'd be great. WAllaahu Ta'aala A'lam, Wassalamu Alaikum, Deen :-) |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| jannah |
| 07/16/03 at 21:10:21 |
| [wlm] Good question... Every woman should put it in her contract that she have the right to divorce.. or at least a binding third-party mediator because there are no courts here where a woman is supposed to go if she wants a divorce in an Islamic state. Why doesn't she just get a legal civil divorce if she really wants one? Plus sister, I'd be really careful with your freind, she seems to be telling you her side and getting all the sympathy, but does she really want a divorce? Doesn't seem like she's doing everything she can to get one or stay away from her husband? |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| deenb4dunya |
| 07/16/03 at 22:56:32 |
| Assalamu Alaikum, [quote]Good question... Every woman should put it in her contract that she have the right to divorce.. or at least a binding third-party mediator because there are no courts here where a woman is supposed to go if she wants a divorce in an Islamic state. Why doesn't she just get a legal civil divorce if she really wants one? [/quote] Hold on a sec.. isn't it a right for the Muslim woman to ask for a divorce.. why would she need to include it as a clause in her marriage contract? Wassalamu Alaikum, Deen :-) |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| jannah |
| 07/16/03 at 23:14:07 |
| [wlm] She can ask for a divorce, but he has to consent for it to go through. But if you have it in your contract you can have a unilateral divorce for any reason. The problem is we want to implement Islamic laws in a vaccuum without any courts, laws, or support system... If it were a Muslim state a woman always has the right to initiate divorce proceedings in the court. But she can't just divorce him by stating it. |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| bhaloo |
| 07/16/03 at 23:22:46 |
| [slm] I agree with many things Nomi and Jannah said. We are only hearing one side of the issue. And after reading the first paragraph I can imagine another perspective. Let's *PRETEND* I was a friend of the brother and wrote the following paragraph: I have a Muslim friend who has been married for several years. The brother is going through a difficult time, having been layed off from his job shortly after 9/11. He's finding it very difficult to find a job, and his wife is always nagging him about this, and wants to continue to live her extravagant lifestyle, going to $100 restaurants and driving $100,000 cars. The brother is very depressed and his wife's behavior is making the situation worse, she isn't understanding at all. She works as well, and is annoyed that she is working and he isn't. They have 2 children and her mother watches the children (practically lives with the grandma) The brother doesn't know how to take care of children, because he grew up in an environment that looked down on men taking care of kids. But he is trying, but only makes a bigger mess of things when he tries and his wife gets angry at him. He has thought about starting a business but has seen so many businesses fail that he doesn't know what to do. His brother gave him a business now for him to run and keep the profits . Its hard work and he tries his best, though he isn't making as much as when he worked as an employee. The wife isn't satisfied with his attempt, she demands more. All this stress has affected their relationship and the wife's behavior has hurt their relationship. One day she asked him if he loves her. He being a man, didn't use his brain and spoke what was on his mind and said, he didn't feel anything. Obviously he was mad, depressed, and annoyed with her and that's why he said it, and he's had enough. But I know deep down, that he still cares about her, and she still cares about him. ;================================================ See that? That's a VERY different story then the one Anonymous told, and it may very well be true* We don't know. [quote] She's going by what the Imam says (she's asked 2) and still unhappy but not showing it. She just comes to me b/c she trusts me. I don't know what to tell her. Can anyone help, please? [/quote] Why do you think no one supports her decision but you? Would she still go to you if you didn't agree to divorce? I think one of the major problems is this: [quote] They used to argue all the time and now I think she's just given up on him b/c she's exhausted. [/quote] Ive had so many close, close friends where the relationship went sour completely. And the reason for that most times was that we didn't communicate between each other. We let some differences stand in the way and we didn't work on trying to listen to each other and *HEAR* what the other person was saying, or trying to understand what the other person was going through or feeling. And if some hurtful things are said and those things aren't resolved, it just builds up and up. Anonymous, the relationship of this husband and wife you described is no different then any relationship between 2 human beings (weather it is 2 brothers, 2 sisters, amongst relatives, amongst friends, etc). Communication is the key. That's something those 2 need to work on. They also need to learn that Islam is the most important thing in their lives, not money. Once they make Islam their focus and the akhirah their goal, insha'Allah everything will come into place for them. There's a hadith related to this that mentions: Narrated by Zaid bin Thaabit who said that Allaah's Messenger (salallaahu alaihi wasallam) said, "..... And the one who makes the dunya his concern (main), Allah will remove from his heart contentment and He will place poverty right between his eyes and Allah will shatter his affairs and nothing will come (to him) except what was written for him. And the one who makes the aakhirah his concern Allah will place contentment in his heart and He will remove the poverty that is between his eyes, and He will suffice him in his affairs, and the dunya will come to regardless." (this hadith is mentioned in other collections as well, I remember coming across it in Tirmidhi as well, but don't have the exact reference there). Insha'Allah if they do this, everything will come into place for them. I think it maybe a good idea for them to see a Muslim marriage counselor, if they are having problems just communicating. p.s. This naseeah everyone can use. So if you have a sour relationship with someone (especially with me), why not try and talk it out and resolve things. What's the harm in trying? :) |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| salma |
| 07/17/03 at 00:57:28 |
| brother bhaloo...u mentioned muslim marriage counselor in your post...do you know where they can be found? the imam of the masjid here who i asked for counselling just says one thing "sister get a divorce"...can u pass me some info bout muslim marriage counselors.. jazakallah |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| salaampeaceshalom |
| 07/17/03 at 04:55:24 |
| I'd just like to say something. I DO agree we need to know the husband's story too, that's why I said that somebody needs to speak to him to hear his side as well. I wouldn't say I 'trashed' the Imams. Sometimes people are too quick to give a verdict on something, without looking at everything else. My point was that I feel the wife needs to speak to somebody who is willing to listen or 'hear' everything, as well as what the husband has to say AND provide alternatives to the situation. It's no good to give one or two sentences on a situation, thinking you've done your job. Especially for an Imam. If someone comes to you for help or advice, I think you're meant to help them in any way that you can. Time and time again, I've noticed that the Muslim community are very reluctant to help each other out (my experience working at a specific organisation), and people don't have support from their so-called brothers and sisters, let alone the Imams. At least help find alternatives or give options that people can look into, and I truly do think that that's what an Imam is meant to do, rather than just let the person wander around listlessly, still confused as ever, still completely clueless on what to do/ how to deal with the situation, and nowhere nearer to a solution. wa'salaam :) |
| 07/17/03 at 13:10:12 |
| salaampeaceshalom |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| Nomi |
| 07/17/03 at 13:27:21 |
| [slm] [quote author=salaampeaceshalom link=board=madrasa;num=1058334675;start=0#14 date=07/17/03 at 04:55:24] I wouldn't say I 'trashed' the Imams. Sometimes people are too quick to give a verdict on something, without looking at everything else.[/quote] I didn't mean to put it that way... um... should have chosen a lighter word i guess. salaam, specially peace and shalom a brother in islam |
| Re: What should she do? |
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| salaampeaceshalom |
| 07/17/03 at 13:33:35 |
| salaam bro, lol, the 'sometimes ppl...' bit wasn't meant for u bro :). I was referring to Imams who don't fully listen to stuff/look at 'everything else', sorry for the confusion :) wa'salaam ;) |
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