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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| But, they do.... |
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| Kathy |
| 07/19/03 at 07:42:09 |
| [slm] Lately, I have been running into a bit of problems that Muslims are causing for me and my non- Muslim family. Let me give you some examples Recently I went to some social events with my sister. She has always bugged me about not shaping my eyebrows... saying I look unkempt (by American standards this is true) ... imagine her delight when she saw so many Muslim women... shaped. In her opinion... they are the real Muslims... because they are foreign born! We went to a graduation.... the event was outdoors, men and women seperated so ever slightly.... My sisters observations? "Kathy what is wrong with you... they are all wearing make up, nail polish and scarfless... If they (the majority) are doing it... why aren't you." We went to another revert graduation. The family had a poster board of pictures of the graduate's growing up years. A Muslim family... pictures of christmas trees, halloween cosutmes and the grand finally... pictures of the boy going to the prom, with his arms around the girl with covered parents at his side. What were all the Christians who attended, thinking, when they saw this? Will they go back to their friends and say Muslims do this kind of stuff? She of course says I should let my son participate.. as it is obvious the "real Muslims" do. The final blow, however I am in no doubt there will be more, was I was discussing my "money/budget problems" with my sis. She said... just charge it. I explained for the millioneth time about riba and she made a very astute observation. "Kathy, I have seen the cars and homes of many of your friends (Muslim) there is no way they can do all of that and send their children to college with out the bank." How right she is. Of course she follows the comment with how I must be wrong because "they" all do it. It is sad, but it is these kind of Muslims who are making living life hard for me in the correct Islamic way in America...not the Americans. |
| 07/19/03 at 07:43:50 |
| Kathy |
| Re: But, they do.... |
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| lucid9 |
| 07/19/03 at 08:14:38 |
| [quote author=Kathy link=board=madrasa;num=1058611329;start=0#0 date=07/19/03 at 07:42:09] It is sad, but it is these kind of Muslims who are making living life hard for me in the correct Islamic way in America...not the Americans. [/quote] Yeah, really sorry for that. But just think about how hard they make it for muslims "back home." They are downright unbearable. And if you're religious and also a "born" muslim, you face so much scorn from Aunts, Uncles, Mom, Dad and your 6 million other relatives who think just because you are particular about praying on time, or covering yourself, or don't want to take interest you've gone off the deep end. For example, there are lots of muslim girls out there who actually want to wear hijab, but whose mom and dad discourage it or even forbid it. A friend of mine recently got married, and his wife started covering her head after that. And because of that his inlaws labeled him a "taliban" and religous nut, when in fact he's a pretty kind and liberal guy, and it was his wife's decision whether or not to wear a scarf. I mean every young practicising muslim, that I know has called at some point a fanatic, an extremeist, or a nut by his family or friends. In my opinion, the most prejudiced people against muslims are actually other muslims. These muslims have a fascist idea about what islam is and what it should be, and everything outside of their extremely liberal paradigm is extremism. Unfortunately, these are the people who define "modern islam," and the kind of people others want muslims to emulate. I mean, just look at Turkey -- that's what everybody wants us to be like. And that is his own admission -- Parvez Musaharraf's and others' paradigm for the accceptable muslim country/state/society. |
| Re: But, they do.... |
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| sofia |
| 07/19/03 at 11:33:55 |
| As-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah, Kathy I've experienced this once, too. But with a new Muslim who befriended "modern" Muslims early on, and wondered , 'if they can do it, why can't I?' (Do I have to wear the hijaab? Can I wear make-up in public, too? Mixing? Etc). It's not easy, but I found the most helpful thing was providing her with evidence otherwise. It takes time, and the approach definitely depends on who you're dealing with. As always, focus on what Muslims can do, rather than can't. It should be made clear that Islaam is a perfect religion, and we, as Muslims are imperfect. Most (if not all) of us will not get every aspect down, unfortunately. Nor will we all be educated about Islaamic law at the same level. Building this knowledge takes time, and it's mandatory on all Muslims to learn as much as we can about Islaam and Islaamic law (not to mention, we should include Muslims in our da'wah efforts). So when it comes to Islaamic law, maybe focus on lack of knowledge, rather than any particular Muslim's refusal to obey a particular commandment of Allah. [quote]In my opinion, the most prejudiced people against muslims are actually other muslims.[/quote] I'm in total agreement with br. lucid on this. Some of the most unsupportive people of modest clothing (hijaab/jilbaab/niqaab and probably goes for the beard for bros, as well) are born-Muslims. Just goes to show that Islaam does not equal all Muslims (ie, we don't represent it as it should be). May Allah bring all of your loved ones into the fold of Islaam, aameen. |
| 07/20/03 at 13:46:59 |
| sofia |
| Re: But, they do.... |
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| Caraj |
| 07/19/03 at 12:50:43 |
| [quote author=sofia link=board=madrasa;num=1058611329;start=0#2 date=07/19/03 at 11:33:55]As-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah, Kathy And if that doesn't work, you can always try the "if one person jumped off a bridge, would you?" argument. :) May Allah bring all of your loved ones into the fold of Islaam, aameen. [/quote] I don't mean to cause an arguement nor hard feelings but we are all responsable to the Almighty for our actions. Others may not be setting a good example or do as you do however Which is worse One who covers and wears no make up and judges others actions? One who does not cover and doesn't judge others actions? I AM NOT saying anyone is judging. And when raising my kids I realize how hard it is to do right by them when the other parents are doing different and the kids say WELL so and so's mom lets him do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is hard to do what in your heart you believe is right when all around you they are not doing what you feel is right. Maybe the example they set is not what you want set for your beliefs. But this all requires faith does it not? Just some food for thought. |
| Re: But, they do.... |
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| humble_muslim |
| 07/19/03 at 13:49:24 |
| AA Azizah, this is not about judging. This is a VERY serious problem for msulims trying to practice thier religion in what people reagrda as "extremist" ways. I send my kinds to an Islamic school. My mom (who lives in the UK) came her to visit me, and also visit her bother (my uncle) who lives in a different city with 5 kids of his own. His kids (except the samllest one) did not go to Islamic schools. So she starts to tell me that there's nothing wrong with good American schools,just look at your uncle's kids! |
| NS |
| Re: But, they do.... |
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| Maliha |
| 07/19/03 at 13:50:56 |
| [quote author=azizah link=board=madrasa;num=1058611329;start=0#3 date=07/19/03 at 12:50:43] It is hard to do what in your heart you believe is right when all around you they are not doing what you feel is right. Maybe the example they set is not what you want set for your beliefs. But this all requires faith does it not? [/quote] [slm] hmmm...sis Azizah you bring a good point about not judging others, but in Islam our actions are *not* based on what our heart feels is right. The heart can be swayed by many factors including society, our own desires, family, etc. therefore it becomes a pretty inept tool to judge what Allah (SWT) Wills for us. Everything in Islam is clearly outlined in the Quran, the Sunnah (The Prophet's [saw] way of life), and numerous scholarly works deriving legilation from the above. Therefore there is *no* room for our own justifications on doing what is forbidden and setting our own standards on what faith should or should not entail. It's sad but I agree with all the above, Muslims are pretty interesting when it comes to the issue of implementing what we know to be true. What's ironic is that there are many Non Muslims that are actually more principled and ethical than Muslims are. I have noticed this a lot, especially in the West where Muslim FOB parents are pretty clueless on the detriments of this society and let their kids do whatever...yet, I have friends who are Non Muslims with parents who were very strict on watching what kind of programs they can see, how they spend their time, and one of my friends was never allowed to go to even a slumber party growing up. Then as some others pointed out there is the whole issue of professionalism, where you can almost guarantee doing business with Muslims= being ripped off. This is really heart breaking. Because our predecessors were so particular and meticulous that even when they sold something they would first show the person every little "fault" that existed in the product before they made the sale. My grand parents were Yemeni Merchants who streamed to East Africa and their generation reverted almost the whole coastal strip mainly by their ethical dealings and upright standards. Recently my hubby was ripped off a total of almost $8000 by two different Muslims (one a close friend) who fronted like they were trying to help him. These things can really shatter one's faith when it comes to feeling the brotherhood and unity within the ummah. Subhana Allah we have lost alot along the way, and shouldn't be surprised at all by our generally pretty debased position in the world. All we can make is duah, and remain strong in keeping our footing on the straight path. Seriously we are approaching the time of strangeness within Islam, and many a time, even within the community you feel like a stranger. Also it's even stated in the Quran that should you follow a majority of the dwellers of earth you will end up in Hell. May Allah protect us and guide us and strengthen us to remain steadfast (Amin) May He bring us all and keep us within the fold of Islam, His Mercy, His Light and Never leave us to our own selves even for a blink of an eye (Amin). Sis, Maliha :-) [wlm] |
| Re: But, they do.... |
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| Caraj |
| 07/19/03 at 14:15:01 |
| [quote author=The humble muslim link=board=madrasa;num=1058611329;start=0#4 date=07/19/03 at 13:49:24]AA Azizah, this is not about judging. This is a VERY serious problem for msulims trying to practice thier religion in what people reagrda as "extremist" ways. I send my kinds to an Islamic school. My mom (who lives in the UK) came her to visit me, and also visit her bother (my uncle) who lives in a different city with 5 kids of his own. His kids (except the samllest one) did not go to Islamic schools. So she starts to tell me that there's nothing wrong with good American schools,just look at your uncle's kids! [/quote] This word 'extremist' I think it is misused so much. In my mind there is a major differencs between extremist and fundamentalist. HUGE difference.\ (ie: one will die for their faith another will kill for it/ one will gently teach and show their beliefs and the other will try to force it down everyone throat/ One used their faith to grow and the other uses it to judge others, etc) As to some of the other comments, I was not saying anyone judged, I was simply saying be careful not to judge. Christians have these troubles and differences also. Some are modern, some fundamentalist. Some think it is biblically wrong for a woman to cut her hair. Some think if you divorce you should never remarry. Some think it is ok to kill over their beliefs (like at abortion clinics, etc) Mystic, that is awful what was done to you and your husband and your loss. You would think a people (be it a people of color, of faith, of family or of country) you would think one would look out for their own kind. Humble Muslim, good for you. If my husband and I ever have children we will home teach and not send our kids to any public school. To many in the US have no disapline and teachers are allowed to teach their opinions and not just reading, writting and math and science. And besides the bad manors of other families are being exposed to one children. |
| Re: But, they do.... |
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| timbuktu |
| 07/19/03 at 14:35:01 |
| [slm] a "born muslim" pleads guilty! all i can say in defence is that everyone will be tested before gaining admission to Allah's Jannah, & the results will be there for all to see that justice has been done - no favoritism, lineage & bribery on the Day of Judgment. membership of this jannah's board is no guarantee either, although staying in good company makes one want to strive a little harder. it is hard to resist temptation. it is difficult to avoid taking a short & easier route, although we know that it is wrong. When Allah's mercy is with us, & we choose the right course, the peace & serenity that we get is beyond description. & when we get frightened by Satan into accepting the wrong course of action, the discord & discontent stays with us. & this tussle will go on till the end. The more certain one is about the deen the more likely to stay in line when the final test comes. if these tests look difficult, see what the earliest muslims had to go thru' or think of the days of the Dajjal. How difficult it will be to stay a momin? Don't go by what we "born" muslims make compromises on. When we look at the reverts, we feel guilty, & try to improve ourselves that much more. Even if there are some among us who make fun of reverts for being more backward, when we are alone with ourselves, we yearn for the peace the enthusiastic revert has found in his/ her heart. So, you gain merits by waking up the muslim in us that much more. & on the Day of Judgment the currency will be those merits. Since we have accepted these Satanic merchandise, we are unhappy. Those who make the choice of rejecting such methods, are in peace. This state of affairs has been foretold in the AHadeeth. Before the end of the world, certain signs are to come about. The minor signs have all manifested themselves. Everyone should try to save him/her self & the loved ones. & of course the Dawa must go on. i am sure there are some masnoon dua's for this situation. I cannot offhand think of the appropriate ones. maybe some one else remebers. |
| 07/19/03 at 14:41:47 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: But, they do.... |
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| faisalsb |
| 07/20/03 at 02:28:13 |
| [slm] Well Sister Kathy I think the problem what you are going through is not new and all of us face such criticism at some stage of our life. The thing and idea which give me comfort in such a situation is life of Holy Prophet [saw]. If there is any person who is more complete, accurate and good than Holy Prophet [saw]? But still being a best human example in universe if he was spared from such criticism? There were people who called him [saw] a magician, he [saw] was physically, mentally and socially tortured and isolated. It was same about companions of Holy Prophet [saw]. When Holy Prophet [saw] asked muslims to give sadqa then rich muslims contributed a lot of money. That time Munafiqeen said they are doing it for sake of popularity. When poor muslims who used to work as labourer whole day and at end of the day they used to get some dates as payment of their work. They brought those dates to Holy Prophet [saw] for donation. That time munafiqeen said Allah doensn't need their sadqa since it's too little. So the people who want to criticize for sake of criticism they will keep on doing that no matters whatever you do and how much perfect you are. I think such criticism doesn't deserve even 1% consideration, listen from one ear and let it vent out from the other one .......:) Well Sister Azizah has also pointed out something very important. Although it's a bit off the topic but still good thing to remember. If doing good deeds makes us think that we are better than those who are not doing that then we need do self analysis and check the state of our Iman. Because only Allah knows who is better apart from our obvious character. Since proudness and having superiority complex about one's good character or prayers is something which turned Iblees to Shaytaan. Iblees didn't commit fornication, he never lied, there is no place in universe where he didn't pray and which doesn't have prints of his sajood. His only fault was he became proud of his good character and thought he was superior than rest of all the creation of Allah Subhan wa talla but only Allah knew there was someone who was superior than him. So when Allah asked Iblees to bow down in front of Adam (Aliasalam) he refused and said he was better than him. That's it all of his strugle, his prayers, his worship and obedience to Allah Subhan wa tallah became nullified. Another example regarding the same topic is when Holy Prophet [saw] told names of munafaqeen to one sahabi. When Omar (RAU) came to know about it he rushed to that sahabi and asked him either his name was also among those what Holy Prophet [saw] mentioned to him. So I think that's the state of Iman what we should have all the time something between hope and concern. |
| Re: But, they do.... |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 07/20/03 at 02:49:04 |
| [slm] "Islam began as [i]ghareeb[/i] [strange]. And so will it return to being [i]ghareeb[/i] [strange]. So [i]tooba[/i] [give glad tidings of abundant rewards] to the [i]ghurabaa[/i] [strangers]." -- Muhammad [saw] P.S. Sometimes, among the strangers, there are strangers! |
| 07/20/03 at 02:50:00 |
| Abu_Hamza |
| Re: But, they do.... |
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| Kathy |
| 07/20/03 at 13:40:01 |
| [slm] [quote]Well Sister Azizah has also pointed out something very important. Although it's a bit off the topic but still good thing to remember. If doing good deeds makes us think that we are better than those who are not doing that then we need do self analysis and check the state of our Iman.[/quote] Yes, this is a very good point. Others have taken the time to point this out to me so the intention of my original post is being misunderstood. There is no way I am being judgemental of other Muslims. I am too aware of my own shortcomings and need to improve, that I surely agree that their actions are their concern. My post was more of an outlook of the general American public finding people like me, too extreme. Mainly in example, my family. Another example was a couple months back when a public school official came to the dawah center because of problems they were having in thier schools with Muslims. They wanted to know what Islam said about different issues. As we were discussing things like the pledge of allegience, gym classes, holidays, prayers, music class,food, dress etc., the other Muslims at the table felt I was too extreme. They told the official they saw nothing wrong with Muslim kids participating in many of these activities. A couple went as far as saying it wasn't neccessary for our children to pray in school, during the time change. So there I sat looking like an extreemist. Now, by me writing this.. doesn't mean that I am judging them... I just disagree. I think when we are in public, even if you have a christmas tree in your house and encourage your kids to go to the prom, you should not advertise the fact in a public gathering. It is kind of like raising a child. At certain ages you have certain expectations of the child. As they get older they should know better. Everyones eman is growing and webbing er ebbing (can you tell I have a nne year old who loves spiderman?) at different times. If a Muslim is at a low tide in their eman... for the sake of other Muslims trying to keep back the gulf... support them. What is scaring me most is that the shame level is not even there. Shame meaning fear of Allah. They are not even trying to cover what they are doing. |
| 07/20/03 at 23:08:44 |
| Kathy |
| Re: But, they do.... |
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| sofia |
| 07/20/03 at 13:43:14 |
| Peace, Azizah [quote]I don't mean to cause an arguement nor hard feelings but we are all responsable to the Almighty for our actions. Others may not be setting a good example or do as you do however Which is worse One who covers and wears no make up and judges others actions? One who does not cover and doesn't judge others actions? [/quote] I see what you mean by this question. And I'm in total agreement with you. I once asked a group of 8-12 year old Muslim girls: which is more important, cleanliness of the heart of the body? (Islaam has heavy emphasis on both) Mashaa'Allah, not one of them got it wrong. It's cleanliness of the heart, and I remind myself first. That "jumping off a bridge" comment was a joke and didn't really have to do with this topic, however. So I've deleted it, since I don't even remember why I thought of it. Might have had to do with the fact that giving Islaamic evidence is not necessarily enough when doing da'wah with non-Muslims (or could have been the fact that I was under the influence of painkillers at the time after having my 'wisdom' teeth extracted; pun intended). :) My main point in my original post was: I don't have full knowledge of Islaam, so I wouldn't want someone to come at me with: "You're a weak Muslim." I would rather they gave me the benefit of the doubt and provided me with evidence/daleel and give me da'wah, so I could make an informed decision on doing good. Alhamdulillah, Islaam has a basis for right and wrong (the Qur'aan and the Sunnah), and is not merely based on human logic. That's one of the most interesting differences between Islaam and any other ideology, but that's a topic for another thread, maybe. Anyhow, I hope that makes more sense. Otherwise, you're right, I do need to work on the whole judging thing, astaghfirAllah. Hope I understood your post correctly. Peace, sofia --------------- After having just read Kathy's reply (btw-I like the squash blossom): To clarify on what I meant by born-Muslims (no offense to anyone, I'm one, too) -- I've had the same experience at one point, being thought of as "extreme" by born-Muslims moreso than anyone else. Allahu A'lim. It's an interesting, and unfortunately, widespread phenomenon. |
| 07/20/03 at 13:48:10 |
| sofia |
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