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Differences of opinion
Abu_Hamza
07/20/03 at 17:31:18
[slm] Often times we see a fatwa being stated by someone, only to be responded to by the words: "there is another opinion on this matter ..." Sometimes I wonder how we laymen make our decisions about which opinion to follow from the several that may exist on a particular issue.  I question whether, more often than not, we are motivated by what our [i]nafs[/i] inclines towards as opposed to what opinion seems to be the strongest because of its arguments and evidences. Brothers and sisters, I advise you and myself to not be swayed by our nufoos.  When we look at an issue which has difference of opinion, let us try to research the matter with objectivity, putting our nafs aside, to look at all the evidences available to us, to look at which opinion seems to be held by the majority of the scholars, and who are some of those ulamaa that supported each opinon.  Only then, make your decision.  And even then, be ready to change your stance if you are presented with stronger evidences from the other opinion later on in your life.  For if you don't, then there's a possibility that your original decision was based on hawaa, not objective textual analysis performed due to an honest yearning for discovering the truth. Wallahu ta'ala a'lam. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

Re: Differences of opinion
muahmed
07/20/03 at 17:55:37
[slm] You ask too much from ignorant me. You ask everyone to do ijtihad! There is no difference in evaluating different fatawas to choose the best and in giving a fatwa yourself. If I was a mujtahid I would happily do what you ascribed, indeed I would be bound to do so. But for me to engaged in what you ask  is to remove the leash from my nafs, on the pretext of putting a leash on it. Certainly I would be a fool to try to tread my own path, when clear paths have been made manifest. And Allah alone gives success.

Re: Differences of opinion
Nomi
07/20/03 at 18:09:00
[slm] Bro Muhammad Ahmed, thanks for reading my mind and putting it here. But i do agree with that caution that one should not rush into adopting a new practice without some good research.

Re: Differences of opinion
Abu_Hamza
07/20/03 at 21:03:01
[slm] So what do you suggest for a person who wants to know whether a certain thing is halal or haram, and it is something which the scholars differ on? What should he/she do? Let's say the person lives in a place where there is no mujtahid scholar available to him/her.  All he/she has access to are some Muslims who have somehow gained a pretty good cursory knowledge of islamic fiqh from sitting in various halaqaat and reading books, *some* books of fiqh, some Islamic magazines, and the itnernet. In other words, your typical United States community. My point is, the person will inevitably have to choose.  The matter is differed upon by scholars (sometimes within the same madh-hab).  Which one the person chooses cannot be based on a simple toss of a coin.  There has to be some thinking involved.  Some objectivity.  Granted the research will not be the caliber of scholars, but there must be some effort made.  It is this method of choosing which I'm talking about. My issue is there are many of us who have an inclination to doing/believing in certain things.  Then, when we are told there's actually a scholarly opinion which condones what we do/believe in, we feel good/happy about it and continue to do what we're doing/believing in (often without reading for ourselves *what* that scholar had *actually* said about the issue, or what the premises [usool] for his ruling were).  Then, when we are told by someone else that the scholars have condemned what we are doing/believe in, we turn to that person and tell him: "excuse me!  there's another opinion on this matter ... please respect the other opinion and don't force yours over mine." What's sad is the same person - on another issue - will follow an opinion which is condemned by that *very* scholar whose opinion they were following so happily in the first instance!  This time however, they follow another shaykh's opinion, because in this instance that other shaykh happens to have ruled in favor of what this person's nafs inclines towards! This kind of subjective picking and choosing between the various opinions - where the decision maker is primarily the nafs, where there's no objectivity, no *real* thirst for discovering the truth, but only to find *an* opinion which satisfies the person's already established inclinations - is what I'm warning against. Wallahu a'lam.
07/20/03 at 21:17:46
Abu_Hamza

Re: Differences of opinion
Nawawi
07/20/03 at 21:34:11
I use to be anti madhabi, and I was on this whole thing about following the strongest opinion and not blindly follow an Imaam. Because I strongly believe in the principle of not blindly follow an Imaam and we have to follow the strongest opinion. This lead me to do some research on the differences of opinions among the scholars. To make a long story short, when I read some of these differences of opinions, and their evidences and reasonings, alot of the fatawa made sense. I become confused as to what is really the strongest opinion, because they all made sense from a certain prespective. So I decided to follow one madhab and stick with it.  I believe the Imaams knew what they were doing when they made the fatawa. So now I follow the Shafi madhab.  And out of necessity I will follow opinions from another madhab. So I just found it easier to follow one madhab.  And let the scholars fight amongst each other about which opinion is the strongest and isn't.  As I am not qualified. I mean granted,  I could tell you my opinion what I think is the strongest opinion is, but sinse I'm not a scholars, does my opinion really count. And to be honest I haven't found a fatawa in the Shafi madhab, that did not conform to the Quran and Sunnah. I have found opinions that other scholars thought was a weak opinion or  a baseless opinion.  But at the end of the day.  I am satisfied with my decision of following one madhab.
07/20/03 at 21:36:06
Nawawi

Re: Differences of opinion
bhaloo
07/20/03 at 21:59:09
[slm] [quote author=Muhammad Ahmed link=board=madrasa;num=1058733078;start=0#1 date=07/20/03 at 17:55:37]You ask too much from ignorant me. You ask everyone to do ijtihad! There is no difference in evaluating different fatawas to choose the best and in giving a fatwa yourself. [/quote] No one is asking you do ijtihad.  Also, this is not the same as making a fatwa and evaluating different fatawas!  Where did you come up with this idea? ???  The one that makes a fatwa is a qualified scholar who can sift through the evidence, understand what the scholars from the past have said on a matter and provide the evidence.  Seeing the process and understanding what the scholars went through in arriving at their fatawa is a beautiful thing.  Its like visiting a doctor and asking to be diagnosed, and then getting a second opinion.   Your claiming that getting the opinion of the doctors is the same as the individual diagnosing himself without having any medical background whatsoever!!!   As one can clearly see it is not the same. To address your question Abu Hamza: Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Saleh Ibn 'Uthaymeen was asked  when two scholars give differing judgments on a personal issue, how do we decide upon which opinion to choose? Do we look at the specialization of the scholar, his age or just the evidence he brings? Answer : It is well known and important that we know what is correct through the means of evidence. Yet it is upon him (the person seeking the truth) to follow whom he sees is closest to that which is correct. This is according to the scholar's knowledge and the level of trust in him. As far as knowledge - there are indeed people who speak without knowledge. He may have some aspect of knowledge while having yet missed many aspects. As far as trust - there are some people who have a lot of knowledge yet he looks to what the people desire therefore he becomes negligent and rules according to what suits the questioner. So if scholars disagree, look to who is closest to what is correct. Just as two doctors may differ in diagnosis or treatment of an illness. You will follow the one whose diagnosis you see is deeper and more thorough.   [quote] If we choose one of the two scholars opinions about a person, group or issue, how do we treat those who take an opinion different from us? [/quote] Answer : It is necessary that you cooperate in a manner that shows love and excusing them if they do not abandon or forsake (the correct) 'aqeedah. Because the companions (radiallahu 'anhum) differed in matters yet they agreed (in principle) and were in conformity. They were in agreement (muttafiqoon) that the aim was to reach the truth and what was correct, and they were in conformity (muwaafiqoon) with the shari'ah (Islam). Every person will not attain the same understanding as another. So if there is a difference upon an issue there is no need for dispute. We all agree to be on one line (i.e. the same 'aqeedah) because I know that my companion (holding the other opinion) will not differ from me without following evidence and I likewise would not differ from him other than upon evidence. Our aim is the same. Then it is not permissible for one to have any hatred nor anger nor enmity towards the other. We have many examples of this, among them the matter of Bani Quraidhah. When the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) returned from the battle of Ahzaab and they had put down their preparations for war, Jibreel came to him and ordered him to go out to Bani Quraidhah in their homeland and fight them because they had broken the treaty (between them and the Muslims). So the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) delegated his companions telling them not to pray Asr except in Bani Quraidhah, and it was far from Al-Medinah. They set out from Al-Medinah and the Asr prayer came in so some amongst them prayed saying that the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) told us not to pray except in Bani Quraidhah only to urge us to hurry. Others said he (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) ordered us not to pray except in Bani Quraidhah so we won't pray until we reach there even if the sun goes down. This reached the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and he did not blame or censure any of them nor did any of them find fault in the other. This is what is obligatory. If I know that my differing companion is well-intending and he would only differ from me due to evidence with him, it is necessary to know that it is not permitted for me to feel hatred toward him. Why (should I)? If was to justify detesting him it means that I am justifying to myself that I must be obeyed as though I am infallible. This is not permissible. His argument against me is like mine against him and he can say why don't you obey me?
07/20/03 at 22:00:46
bhaloo

Re: Differences of opinion
jannah
07/20/03 at 23:30:13
[wlm] the reason we post that "there are other opinions out there"  is because there ARE other opinions out there.. and if one person comes and cut&pastes a fatwa that says this or that and makes out like that is the be all, end alll opinion and that's it, that isn't right... One could easily cut and paste another fatwa... but what's the point of that. It's better to say that there are other opinions and it's the person's job to use whatever method they use.. their imam, their madhab whatever to find out about the issue...

Re: Differences of opinion
humble_muslim
07/21/03 at 00:15:05
AA In some cases, there is DEFINTELY a trend to follow the nafs.  The classic example is music, when people blindly follow the scholars who maintain that music is halal without really looking at the issue deeply enough.
NS

Re: Differences of opinion
timbuktu
07/21/03 at 02:41:39
[slm] subhanallah this topic & answers help a lot. I thought of giving a reply, but brother bhaloo's post expresses much more clearly what i had in mind. so jazakallahu khayran

Re: Differences of opinion
Tesseract
07/21/03 at 03:12:59
Assalamu 'alaikum,         [quote]One could easily cut and paste another fatwa... but what's the point of that.[/quote]                What is wrong in posting the other fatwa? If the purpose of this discussion board is to learn deen and help others learn deen, then I think the different opinions should be posted. If a person knows one opinion and favours that and cuts and pastes that fatwa, then the other person who knows of other opinion should bring it up as well and paste that opinion as well. However, people should know how to respect different scholars and different opinions. None of us is a scholar here, so none of us should judge which fatwa is right and which is wrong. If someone has disagreements, let him/her keep it upto him/herself. There are people here (atleast me) who is always eager to know different opinions on different issues, but I rarely get to read different opinions.              [quote]It's better to say that there are other opinions and it's the person's job to use whatever method they use.. their imam, their madhab whatever to find out about the issue... [/quote]                   Not all people here have enough knowledgable imams in their communities. If u have a knowledgable person in ur community who has a different opinion on certain issue and u know of it, then I think u should share that knowledge. So, imho, its better to post a fatwa or a different opinion rather than just say that there is a different opinion.                    I just mean to be supportive to post different opinions. No offence intended to anyone. Wallahu A'lam. Wassalam.

Re: Differences of opinion
superFOB
07/21/03 at 03:50:33
[slm] The board is doing fine without the fatawas, imho. Fatwas and counter fatwas always spiral into a brawl. I agree with the assertion that people usually follow their nufoos when they fatwa shop, though.

Re: Differences of opinion
muahmed
07/21/03 at 04:16:51
[slm] [quote author=bhaloo link=board=madrasa;num=1058733078;start=0#5 date=07/20/03 at 21:59:09][slm] The one that makes a fatwa is a qualified scholar who can sift through the evidence, understand what the scholars from the past have said on a matter and provide the evidence.  Seeing the process and understanding what the scholars went through in arriving at their fatawa is a beautiful thing.  Its like visiting a doctor and asking to be diagnosed, and then getting a second opinion.   Your claiming that getting the opinion of the doctors is the same as the individual diagnosing himself without having any medical background whatsoever!!!   As one can clearly see it is not the same. [/quote] You use a good analogy that augments my point. Why didn't I think of it. So I goto 3 docotrs. All 3 give me a different perscription and tell me the reasons behind their diagnosis and perscription. I pick one of the perscriptions to follow for either of the following 2 reasons: 1) the perscription i follow is the easiest (maybe its the cheapest, maybe it avoids needles and injections, maybe it just goes with my temperament and ideas) 2) i think the perscription i chose is the best because my knowledge of medical science and the disease tells me it is the most sound position. I choose it because it is "technically" the best. Reason 1 corresponds to unleashing ur ego. Reason 2 corresponds to making ijtihad. How is an ignorant man to "technically" assess a perscription without a high probability of his subconsciously succuming to reason 1? He has no knolwedge of medicine or how a diagnosis is made. The perscriptions will "sort of" make sense to him cuz the doctors will explain them in laymans terms .. so all his knowledge came from the 3 doctors.. maybe the perscription he chooses is wrong and bad but he cant figure that out as he is unaware of some factor that the doctor didnt explain to him,..or didnt take into account... In real life people only get a 2nd opinion when they don't like the treatment the first doctor offers.. eithers its too expensive or includes a risky operation or some costly procedure... so they are already looking for an easier way to solve their problem.. which is understandable and makes sense.. That is why this analogy does not fit perfectly... To make long story short: 1-- majority of the scholars for a majority of the time uphold that one should follow the madhabs, preferrably stick to one... 2-- some scholars start saying one can pick n choose according to the formula bhaloo presented... from the above, some people choose ruling #2... some stick with the way things have been for most of the time...  People who pick ruling #2 are very unlikely to go back to ruling 1, as by picking ruling #2 they have already indicated their temperament or methodology or whatever... hence I am wasting my time posting... I shall avoid posting more on this thread inshAllah.  i apologize if my views or comments hurt anyone.

Re: Differences of opinion
WhiteSomali
07/21/03 at 04:18:03
[slm] ;D I agree 100% with every bra superFOB posted above me. The second sentence would be the reason I avoided this thread, and really I still haven't read very much of it.

Re: Differences of opinion
faisalsb
07/21/03 at 04:29:25
[slm] Jazakalla Khair brother Abu_Hamza I think you have pointed out very important matter. But there are two different things one is that anyone justifies his/her wrong behavior through Quran and Sunnah and the other one is sincere difference of opinion. Where ever the first thing is concerned I think there is a verse of Quran which says there are people who have made their nafs as their god so they follow them. I think that's the most dangerous stage of our Iman when we start justifying our own desires with justification from Quran and hadith. Since as long as we consider WRONG as WRONG then there are chances that one day we might repent but if we lose the guilty concious then we are closing doors of repentance on us ourselves. Once I was talking to a guy and he tried to justify fornication through a hadith that there is a hadith that if a young man or woman commits fornication then their parents would be responsible since they didn't get them married ontime. Now I think there is a hadith like that but does it justify fornication? No, but for that guy that might be justification. Where ever sincere difference in opinion is concerned I think that's something not only good but necessary to have healthy Islamic society. I can recall one hadith when one Sahabi found another Sahabi reading Quran with different pronunciation what the first one thought was incorrect. So he caught the other Sahabi and took him to Holy Prophet  [saw] and complained that he has found him reading Quran in different pronunciation than Holy Prophet  [saw] used to read. Holy Prophet  [saw] asked both of the Sahabi to read Quran one by one and at the end he  [saw] said both are correct and Quran is revealed in seven different pronunciations. Where ever deciding between haram and halal is concerned I think there is a hadith that halal is clear and haram is also clear in between which is not clear is Makrooh so for momin it's better to avoid haram and makrooh both since makrooh is not haram but it might lead to haram. Another example which might not be inappropriate to mention is when Holy Prophet  [saw] made one Sahabi ameer of one area before he departed Holy Prophet  [saw] asked him how would you decide between people in case of disagreement he said I'll try to find the solution in Quran. Holy Prophet  [saw] said if you don't find it there? He said then I'll try to find the solution in your  [saw] sunnah. Holy Prophet  [saw] said what if you can't find it's solution there even? He said then I'll try to solve it through my own judgement and Holy Prophet  [saw] confirmed his approach to be correct. I think the most important thing when it comes to difference of opinion is we should respect other's opinion as if we want our opinion to be respected instead of declaring others Kafir, Jahanami etc since only Allah knows who will go to hell and heaven and what is level of Iman of every individual. Walla hu alam ....

Re: Differences of opinion
jannah
07/21/03 at 04:47:29
[wlm] Bro Bulwark you have some good points, but the problem is as follows - - first a fatwa is an answer for a particular specific question/circumstance, unfortunately on the board it is often used as evidence for something else or to make a generalization about something else -second, can we as lay people actually weigh 2 fatwas and decide which one has more evidence and proof? isn't this what making a fatwa is anyway! - third, when you cut&paste a fatwa the assumption is you found the fatwa on an electronic resource... the web, certain sites, certain cds. and since that is true each of those sites has it's own particular type of agenda and points of view it is propogating and is inherently biased, therefore because the pool of e-fatwas out there is limited, our cut&paste fatwas have certain leanings and will be limited - fourth, if only ppl could post their fatwa/opinion and leave it at that instead of pushing/arguing that only THEIR opinion is the true/right opinion.  if only this was true!!! "However, people should know how to respect different scholars and different opinions." - fifth, cyber-fatwa wars.. need i say more? this just isn't the right way to go about learning knowledge about an issue, ESPECIALLY controversial issues.... because as ppl mentioned we end up going fatwa shopping according to our nafs and that isnt right either.  i know most people do not have an imam or person they can go to for 'real teaching' but seriously that's a problem in itself, we don't want to allow something here that causes more problems on top of that first one!!!

Re: Differences of opinion
WhatDFish
07/21/03 at 05:12:51
assalaamu`alaikum There's been quite a bit I've been meaning to say in a number of threads but of late I've been trying to withhold my opinions, anyhow, here's a good article and inshaa'Allah i hope it will be of benefit to all. Differences of Opinion: Their Causes & The Muslim’s Stance Towards ThemBy Bilal Dannoun Verily all praise is for Allah, the only true God worthy of worship, and peace and blessings be upon Muhammad, the slave and final Messenger of Allah. People were a single nation upon the religion of Adam (‘alaihis-salaam) for fourteen generations, then the devils dislodged and diverted them from their deen (religion) and forbade them from what Allah had made permissible. They disagreed and differed, so Allah sent His Messengers in succession so that they would worship Allah alone and so that His sayings would be the deciding factor in any disagreement. Muhammad  came after a gap in the succession of Prophets, to explain the straight way to the people and to guide them by Allah’s permission, in those matters of the truth about which they differed, to the way of the Mighty and the One worthy of all praise. The reason this topic is being written about, when this page could have well been written about matters of more importance pertaining to this deen, is because it occupies the minds of many people, especially in this time of ours. Not only does it cause confusion in the minds of the common people, but also the students of knowledge. Additionally, this article aims at eliminating hatred, enmity, and disunity amongst Muslims as a result of differences in opinion. We ask Allah Most High, that upon taking a glimpse at this topic, that there will develop an increase in the respect of scholars and tolerance towards other Muslims who hold valid opinions that may be contrary to that of others. During the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam , people used to refer directly to him when in dispute, so he would judge between them, making the truth plain to them. How often do we read in the Qur’an: “They ask you regarding…” upon which Allah  would then reply to His Prophet with a clear answer, ordering him to convey it to the people. Some examples include the following verses: “They ask you as to what is lawful for them. Say, ‘Lawful unto you are all things good and pure…’”1 “And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say, ‘What is beyond your needs…’”2 “They ask about the spoils of war. Say, ‘The spoils of war are for Allah and the Messenger…’”3 “They ask you about the new moon. Say, ‘They are signs to indicate fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage…’”4 After the demise of the greatest man ever to have set foot on the face of the earth, Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam , the Muslim Ummah (nation) differed on legal rulings of the Sharee’ah. However, these disagreements within subsidiary issues do not affect or harm the fundamentals of the deen, and hence, do not impose on the principles of the Sharee’ah nor it’s root sources – The Qur’an and the Sunnah. None of the scholars who are trusted, and relied upon with respect to their knowledge, trustworthiness and religion, intentionally oppose the book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam . Nevertheless, it is indeed possible for scholars to commit mistakes in the laws of Allah because the human, as Allah describes him, is weak: “…and man was created weak.”5 Therefore, man is weak in his knowledge and perception, and he is weak in his understanding and comprehension. As a result, mistakes will emanate from him in some matters. Mistakes committed by the majority of the scholars are not in the fundamentals, except there are those who have fallen into error and stood in opposition to certain fundamentals of Ahlus-Sunnah as a result of their ijtihaad. Ibn Taymiyyah states: “…Many of the Mujtahidoon of the Salaf (pious predecessors) and those later on have said and performed deeds which are innovations. They however, did not know these deeds to be acts of innovation due to weak hadiths which they believed to be authentic, or incorrectly understanding verses of the Qur’an or due to an opinion they exerted in an issue which had textual evidences they were not aware of…”6 The Causes The following causes are some of the frequently found reasons for differing between scholars: 1. The evidence was not known to the scholar, which ultimately led to error in his judgement. Evidences pertaining to a particular issue or issues of the deen not reaching a scholar, whether he be one of the four schools of thought or any of the scholars that came after them, is not something unique to them only. This also happened to the companions themselves. This can be seen in the hadith collected in Saheeh Bukhari: ‘Umar ibn Al-Khattaab (r.a) was travelling to Ash-Shaam. Along the way, someone mentioned to him that a plague had broken out there. So he stopped and started to seek counsel from the companions. He counseled both the Muhaajiroon and the Ansaar, and the companions differed on this issue which resulted in two opinions, the correct being that they should not travel to Sham but return to Madinah. During this deliberation and consultation, ‘Abdur-Rahman ibn ‘Awf, who had been preoccupied and therefore not initially present, turned up and remarked: “I have with me some knowledge on this matter. I heard the Messenger of Allah  say: ‘If you hear of it (i.e. a plague) being in a land, do not go there, and if it breaks out in a land which you are in, do not leave in flee of it.’”8 This example illustrates that people who lived during the time of revelation did not have knowledge and evidences regarding everything. The above ruling given by ‘Abdur-Rahman ibn ‘Awf was not only not known to the chief of the believers, ‘Umar ibn al-Khataab (r.a), but also to the major companions of the Muhaajiroon and Ansaar. 2. The hadith is known to the scholar, however he regards it as being in contradiction to a stronger hadith. Once again, let us look at an example involving the companions themselves and not those after them. Fatimah, the daughter of Qays (may Allah be pleased with her) was divorced by her husband for the third and final time. He arranged for wheat to be sent to her as a means of sustenance during her waiting period. She however, belittled it and refused to accept it. They then took their case up with the Prophet , whereupon, he informed her that she in fact had no legal claim to any maintenance or accommodation.9 ‘Umar ibn Al-Khataab was unaware of this Sunnah and held the view that the woman in such a predicament was entitled to maintenance and housing. He rejected the above mentioned hadith on the basis that she may have forgotten and said: “Are we to leave the saying of our Lord for the saying of a woman, when we know not if she has remembered or forgotten?” The verse ‘Umar (r.a) was referring to is: “…and do not turn them out of their (husbands’) homes, nor shall they (themselves) leave unless they are guilty of open lewdness…”10 The chief of the believers did not have any confidence in the authenticity of this piece of evidence. There are numerous examples where we notice that some scholars regard a certain hadith as authentic, so they give judgement in accordance to it. Whilst others see it as being weak so do not consider it, due to a lack of trust as to whether it actually is reported from the Messenger of Allah . 3. The scholar knew the hadith but he did not recollect it. Indeed just how many people find that a hadith or a verse from the Qur’an has slipped from their minds. Even the Prophet  can forget, the one to whom revelation is sent down. Allah  said: “We shall cause you to recite so that you do not forget, except what Allah wills…”11 The Messenger of Allah  lead his companions in prayer one day and he missed out a verse forgetfully. Ubayy ibn Ka’b was present with him, so when the Prophet  finished praying and was informed that he missed a verse, he said to Ubayy: “Why didn’t you remind me of it?”12 An example for this cause is the incident involving ‘Umar ibn al-Khataab and ‘Ammaar ibn Yaasir (may Allah be pleased with them both). The Messenger of Allah  had sent them on an errand. On their journey one morning, both of them awoke in a state of Janaabah (major impurity). ‘Ammaar exercised his judgement and saw that the purifying action of the earth was the same as that of water. So he rolled around on the earth just as the animal would, in order to completely cover himself with the earth just as it would have been compulsory for him to cover his entire body with water; he then prayed. As for ‘Umar, he did not pray. When they approached the Prophet , he informed them of the action that should have been taken saying to ‘Ammaar: “It would have been enough for you to do this with your hands.” The Prophet  struck the ground with his hands once, wiped his left hand on top of his right hand, then he wiped his palms and face.13 ‘Ammaar used to relate this incident before and during the khilaafah of ‘Umar. One day, ‘Umar summoned for him and said: “What is this hadith which you keep relating?” After ‘Ammar informed him of the incident, ‘Umar did not recall it and said: “Fear Allah O ‘Ammaar!” So ‘Ammaar said to him: “If you so desire, as Allah has made binding my obedience to you, I will stop narrating this incident.” ‘Umar replied: “We leave you to that which you have adopted.” i.e. relate it to the people. Therefore, we see that ‘Umar had forgotten that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam  allowed tayammum (dry ablution) for the one in the state of janaabah, just as it is allowed for the one who is in the state of minor defilement. The point to be made here is that a scholar can forget, becoming oblivious to the correct legal judgement and therefore giving an incorrect judgement, for which he is excused. However, the one who is aware of the evidences is not excused. 4. The scholar is aware of the evidence but understands it incorrectly. An example from the Sunnah to support this cause is the incident where the companions differed with each other on their way to a battle. The Messenger of Allah  ordered his companions to set out for Bani Quraydhah and said: “None of you should pray ‘Asr except at Bani Qurayhdah.”14 The companions understood this command differently: Some thought that the Messenger of Allah’s intention was for them to make haste in setting off so that when the time for ‘Asr prayer arrived, they would already be at Bani Quraydhah. Consequently, when the time for ‘Asr prayer set in and they were in fact still on their way, they prayed and did not delay it out of its prescribed time. The other companions understood the Messenger of Allah’s order to mean that they should not pray ‘Asr until they reach Bani Quraydhah. Hence they delayed their prayer until they reached Bani Quraydhah and therefore prayed it outside its time. This hadith is a fundamental evidence for not rebuking the Mujtahid who falls into error when exercising his judgement. This is only true when certain conditions are met. Some of them are the following: Firstly, the person performing Ijtihaad is qualified to do so. Secondly, the particular issue in which he errs in is open to Ijtihaad. Thirdly, the person exherts his utmost in trying to arrive at the correct ruling. Also, the person must have some form of evidence, which he uses to justify his position. The Messenger of Allah sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam  said: “If a judge gives a ruling upon Ijtihaad and is correct, he will attain two rewards, and if he performs Ijtihaad and errs in his ruling, then he secures one reward.”15 So, it is only when the previously mentioned conditions are met that this hadith can take effect. This is an extremely important matter related to “differing” mentioned by a number of scholars like Ash-Shaatibi, Al-Khataabi, Ibn Taymiyyah and their like. In the example of Bani Quraydhah, the correct position is with those who prayed on time. This is because the texts which make the prayers at their stated times obligatory, are clear and conclusive; and this hadith is a vague text. Therefore, the sound and correct methodology that should be adopted in such circumstances is to refer those texts that are vague and ambiguous back to those that are clear and conclusive – And Allah knows best. 5. The scholar is aware of the hadith, but it is in fact abrogated. At the advent of Islam, the praying person, when in rukoo’ used to put his hands together and place them between his knees. However, this was later abrogated, and the new ruling was for one to place his hands on his knees.16 Once, Alqamah and Al-Aswad, two famous taabieen scholars from amongst the students of Ibn Masoud prayed at his side; they placed their hands on their knees, whereupon, he prohibited them and ordered them to do as he did. This is because he did not know of the abrogation. Hence, a scholar may use as evidence for his ruling a hadith that is authentic, its meaning may also be understood correctly, however, little did he know of its abrogation. 6. The scholar is aware of the evidence, but he sees it to lie in conflict or contradiction to a stronger evidence. We often hear one asserting that there is a consensus of the scholars on a particular issue, only to find out that no such consensus has in fact taken place. An example of this is that a group related that there was a consensus of the scholars on the acceptance of a slave’s testimonial, whilst others reported that there was a consensus on the rejection of a slave’s testimony. The reason this occurs is because a certain type of individual who is surrounded by people who agree with him on an issue, believes that not a single person disagrees with him due to his full conviction that this judgement is exactly what the texts imply. Hence, two evidences form in his mind: the text and a consensus of the scholars. In addition, he may even feel that this judgement is supported by correct analogical deduction known as qiyaas. Therefore he judges that no one differs on this text which to him is supported by correct qiyaas. The reality however, is the complete opposite. Ibn ‘Abbaas  is of the opinion that ribaa (usury) only occurred in an-nasee’ah17, whilst the scholars after him have all agreed that ribaa is of two types: al-fadl18 and an-nasee’ah. 7. The scholar gives a ruling based on a hadith he deems to be authentic, whilst others see it as weak (da’if). A weak hadith is not a true saying or action of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam  and cannot be used to prove any point of Islamic Law. Thus any law which is based on such a hadith is considered incorrect. In the hadith collected by Abu Dawud, whereby Hafs ibn Ghayyaath reported from ‘Abdur-Rahmaan ibn Is-haaq from…that ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib was supposed to have said: “The Sunnah position of the hands in Salaah is to place one hand on the other hand, below the navel.” This hadith is classified as weak because ‘Abdur-Rahmaan was a known liar. In another hadith also collected by Abu Dawud, and which the scholars of hadith classified as authentic, Taawoos reported: “Allah’s Messenger sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam  used to put his right hand on his left hand and place them on his chest whenever he was in Salaah.” Another example is the differences of opinion concerning the prayer of Tasbeeh. Whilst some scholars view it as legislated and justifiable, others deem the hadiths regarding it as not authentic. Shaykhul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah said: “It’s hadith is a lie on the Prophet .” Whose opinion should we follow? It is obligatory on the Muslim to search and investigate in order to find the one closest to the correct opinion. Just as a person who is sick, looks for the most competent person in the field of medicine, then the same applies here, as knowledge is a remedy for the hearts. It is not a condition that you take all your rulings from the most knowledgeable person of your time. This is because not every knowledgeable person always holds the correct opinion. This statement can be supported by the fact that at the time of the companions, people would ask one who was less knowledgeable than others who were also present. At the very least, a Muslim should refer back to those whom he believes to be the most competent in both his religion and knowledge, one who refers back to the Qur’an and authentic Sunnah. The notion that because there is a difference on a particular matter, e.g. with regard to the prohibition of something, it therefore becomes permissible is completely rejected by the Sunnah. If we were to accept this then we would declare lawful riba, illegal marriages like mut ‘ah and certain intoxicating drinks because the ummah differed in these issues. Allah Most High says: “If you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it back to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day.”19 Let us conclude by citing some of the statements of the Imaams of the four schools of thought, may Allah have mercy on them all: Abu Haneefah “If a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then it is my madhhab.”20 “It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them.”21 2. Maalik ibn Anas “Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look into my opinion: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it.”22 “Everyone after the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) will have his sayings accepted and rejected, except the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).”23 3. Shaafi’i “If you find in my writings something different to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam, then speak on the basis of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam , and leave what I have said.”24 “When a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then that is my madhhab.”25 4. Ahmad ibn Hanbal “Do not follow my opinion; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi’i, nor Awzaa’i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took.”26 Therefore reflect on these sayings, for they alone are enough to smash blind following of opinion. And Allaah knows best. Alhamdu Lillah and may the peace and blessings of Allaah be upon His Messenger Muhammad sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam . -------------------------------- 1. Al-Maa’idah, 5: 4 2. Al-Baqarah, 2: 219 3. Al-Anfaal, 8: 1 4. Al-Baqarah, 2: 189 5. An-Nisaa, 4: 28 6. Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (vol. 19, pg. 191) 7. Abu Hanifa, Maalik, Shafi, and Ahmad ibn Hanbal (May Allah have mercy on them all) 8. Saheeh al-Bukhari, English translation, 4/452/no. 679 9. Saheeh Muslim, English translation, 2/769-773 10. At-Talaaq, 65: 1 11. Al-A’laa, 87: 6-7 12. Sunan Abu Dawud and Musnad Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal 13. Saheeh Bukhari, English translation, 1/208/no. 343 14. Saheeh Bukhari, English translation, 2/34 15. Saheeh Bukhari, Muslim, and others 16. Saheeh Bukhari 17. Illegal profit earnt on a lent commodity 18. Illegal profit earnt by exchanging the same commodity, different in quality 19. An-Nisaa, 4: 59 20. Ibn ‘Aabideen in al-Haashiyah (1/63 and others) 21. Ibn al-Qayyim in I’laam al-Mooqi’een (2/309) and others 22. Ibn ‘Abdul Barr in Jaami’ Bayaan al-‘Ilm (2/132) and others 23. Ibn Hazm in Usool al-Ahkaam (6/145,179) and others 24. Khateeb in Al-Ihtijaaj bi ash-Saafi’i (8/2) and others 25. Nawawi in Al-Majmoo’ (1/63) and others 26. Ibn al-Qayyim in I’laam (2/302) and others

Re: Differences of opinion
Nabila
07/21/03 at 05:40:48
[slm] That was a very informative article :) A little something else I found:  http://www.arabnews.com/?page=5&section=0&article=20730&d=29&m=11&y=2002 Its not as packed with information but its an interesting viewpoint I think. ma asalaamah and take care

Re: Differences of opinion
bhaloo
07/21/03 at 10:09:32
[slm] Bulwark of Islam, I agree with you 100%.  I feel like you read my mind. :) [quote author=jannah link=board=madrasa;num=1058733078;start=0#14 date=07/21/03 at 04:47:29]- first a fatwa is an answer for a particular specific question/circumstance, unfortunately on the board it is often used as evidence for something else or to make a generalization about something else [/quote] That's not completely true.  It has happened sometimes, but I think after you've warned those people , they are better at putting up the whole question so one can see the circumstance this applies to. [quote] -second, can we as lay people actually weigh 2 fatwas and decide which one has more evidence and proof? isn't this what making a fatwa is anyway! [/quote] Please see what Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Saleh Ibn 'Uthaymeen said in the earlier post I posted and the doctor example.   [quote] - third, when you cut&paste a fatwa the assumption is you found the fatwa on an electronic resource... the web, certain sites, certain cds. and since that is true each of those sites has it's own particular type of agenda and points of view it is propogating and is inherently biased, therefore because the pool of e-fatwas out there is limited, our cut&paste fatwas have certain leanings and will be limited [/quote] That's not entirely true.  Sure it does happen.  People have access to books and type them in (I've done that before here), or scholars that have email and have discussed this in detail with their students.   But getting back to your response, the same can be said about someone that say lives in a particular community that adheres to a particular madhab strictly.  What is the person supposed to do?  Move?   They are in the same boat again.  At least here, alhumdullilah we have people from all over the world, and we can see all the beautiful opinions out there. [quote] - fourth, if only ppl could post their fatwa/opinion and leave it at that instead of pushing/arguing that only THEIR opinion is the true/right opinion.  if only this was true!!! "However, people should know how to respect different scholars and different opinions." [/quote] I'm all for this.  Like BOI said:   If u have a knowledgable person in ur community who has a different opinion on certain issue and u know of it, then I think u should share that knowledge. So, imho, its better to post a fatwa or a different opinion rather than just say that there is a different opinion. ;===================================== I'd love to see what different opinions there are on a matter (backed up with the detailed evidence).  I remember the case where the issue of if a girl could marry a guy without her wali.  3 of the 4 schools of thought say no, the hanafis being the exception.  and there was a discussion of this on the board, and a sister who follows hanafi fiqh provided detailed evidence for this view.  It was awesome.  Even though I felt the opinion of the other scholars was much stronger, she provided the evidence for her view in GREAT DETAIL.  Its one of the posts from message boards that I visit that I remember the most, because it was so beautiful seeing the evidence.  I bought the book of fiqh that she made reference to because of this.   If this thread isn't locked when I get back from work, I'm going to respond to another post. ;)

Re: Differences of opinion
Abu_Hamza
07/21/03 at 13:24:41
[slm] If anyone has a suggestion, a comment or constructive criticism regarding the policies of this message board, please talk to one of the admins (i.e. jannah or bhaloo) privately using the Private Messaging feature, or email.  The policies are not set in stone, and may change if you can convince the admins of your point-of-view.  However, until the changes take place, please respect and abide by the *current* policies in place.   Please remember that when you became a member of this board, you signed a written contract to abide by the rules set forth in the constitution.  Please respect that contract, as respecting the contracts that one agrees to is a fundamental principle of our Deen. As Jannah said, please re-read the constitution if you are not sure about the policies. Jazakum Allahu khairan.
07/21/03 at 19:22:16
Abu_Hamza

Re: Differences of opinion
sofia
07/21/03 at 15:14:40
As-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah, Excellent topic, jazaakAllahu khair. See also: [url=http://www.wponline.org/vil/Books/TA_edi/Default.htm]The Ethics of Disagreement in Islaam[/url]. Just a few other thoughts came to mind from reading this thread (and I haven't even read all the posts yet, sorry). 1. [quote]But i do agree with that caution that one should not rush into adopting a new practice without some good research. [/quote] Often times, older practices require just as much research as newer ones. The older ones seem like the hardest to break. One of the reasons seeing a new convert learn about Islaam is so beautiful, is because they get to start with a clean slate. The rest of us usually have some extra (cultural) baggage that we  need to get rid of in order to more properly implement the Qur'aan and Sunnah (and no, that's not meant to be an anti-culture statement). For example, how many Muslim countries have accepted various forms of bi'dah (innovation into Islaamic practices) that are so ingrained and accepted in the culture, that they are often argued to be a part of Islaam? Too many. Again, I don't mean to single out any particular culture, this is more of a general statment, and none of us are immune, unfortunately. As one of the local imams here once put it: It's amazing how we have so much time for bi'dah (innovation) and so little time for the fard (obligatory)! Subhan'Allah, is an unfortunately true social commentary on our ummah right now, in general. Another scholar here mentioned, sometimes, it's often the reverts who revive the Qur'aan and Sunnah, in such a way that some set-in-their-ways born-Muslims will comment, "How strange of them/they must be wrong, that's not how we do it." He then quoted the hadith about how Islaam began as something strange, and will end as something strange, so glad tidings to the strangers. Somewhat in line with a comment Abu Hamza made on how Muslims can be "strangers" even amongst other Muslims. 2. The thing about posting fatwas on the board, I agree with most sides of the argument. Whenever I post one (a scholar's fatwa, cut-and-pasted), I always get a twinge of: what if someone takes this as the be-all, end-all? There are so many similar situations like this that may require an alternative ruling (fatwas are usually situational) -- what if someone thinks this is the definitive answer to all such situations? Allahu A'lim, may Allah increase us in knowledge that will benefit us, and guide us all to the right decisions. 3. [quote]majority of the scholars for a majority of the time uphold that one should follow the madhabs, preferrably stick to one...[/quote] Not really -- you may hear a lot of lay-people say this -- and most of us are lay-people, it's not meant in a derogatory way. I realize there are [i]some[/i] scholars who recommend it, but I'm not sure they're a majority. Please see [url=http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=105]Shaikh Salah As-Sawi's response[/url] to this question (he's often referred to for "hard" fiqh questions by many of the imams/scholars in VA/DC/MD). He pretty much states that we will be asked by Allah on Yawm-ul-Qiyaamah/ the Day of Judgement if we followed the Qur'aan and the Sunnah (and in particular, if we followed Prophet Muhammad's teachings), not a particular scholar or Madh-hab; this has not been made mandatory on us. Allahu A'lim. Not to say that following a madh-hab is wrong, but just wanted to point that out. The interesting thing about living in a multi-cultural and multi-madh-hab area is that the more knowledgeable scholars here (regardless of where they're from) have to be able to answer fiqh-type questions with a) the knowledge of whether or not different madh-habs differ on a particular point of interest (often, there is even difference of opinion within a particular madh-hab), and b) what is/are the strongest/saheeh verdict. In other words, we live in a time when the early scholars have done a lot of the leg-work in putting together legal edicts for particular situations (eg/ the 4 imams) and their sources. We also live in a time when later scholars have analyzed more comprehensive Islaamic teachings, to follow up on these imams' advice: If there is a ruling/teaching that is more in line with the Qur'aan and sunnah than mine, than follow that (and not my ruling). Yes, following a learned scholar is important, and in some cases, necessary. And I don't mean to underestimate our scholars in any way (past or present), as their knowledge benefited all of the generations after them, may Allah reward them all and have mercy on those of our scholars who have left this earth. But Islaam is not a religion meant to be understood only by few -- this has [i]never[/i] been a characteristic of our deen. Think about our sahaabah. Mashaa'Allah, everything they heard from the Prophet (S), they would implement with little hesitation. Not every sahabah heard everything the Prophet (S) taught. Not every sahabah memorized the entire Qur'aan. But so many more of their generations will enter Paradise for their taqwa and implementation of what they did know. There was someone from the tabi'een (next generation) who once asked a sahabah, "There's a woman without any family members who has just died in our town. Should we wash her before burying her?" The sahabah said something like, "We didn't used to make things so difficult (ie, just have her washed and buried, sheesh)." Nowadays, we may not have the Prophet (S) as a litmus test to tell us what is authentic from the Sunnah, but we do have a somewhat more comprehensive database of his teachings (hadith literature/study) and we have scholars who have classified the authenticity of his teachings, walhamdulillah. This shouldn't limit us from learning whether or not what we ascribe to Islaam is legit, and seeing where we can improve. This is somewhat of a separate issue, and doesn't require us to make ijtehaad. As mentioned by someone else, later followers/scholars of the 4 imams have at times (not always) deviated from the particular imam they proclaimed to follow. There are so many fatawah that are not necessarily those of Abu Hanifah but are ascribed to him, for example. So imagine what we may be doing that is out of line with the teachings of who we proclaim to follow. Allahu A'lim. Related to this, M. Ash-Shareef also mentioned that two legit scholars can come up with two different rulings for one case. If they both looked for legit proofs (and struggled to) and studied to their utmost, they will both be rewarded. They may not both be correct, but they will both be rewarded. [Jihaad and ijtehaad come from the same root] Allahu A'lim. May Allah forgive me if I've conveyed anything incorrectly or offended anyone.
07/22/03 at 10:13:41
sofia

Re: Differences of opinion
a_Silver_Rose
07/21/03 at 18:47:14
[slm] I strongly believe that since we are all responsible for our own actions we should not blindly follow scholars. IF a scholar sais that certain kind of music is ok then does that mean we are going to get away with it in the day of judgement? ofcourse not so its better to research ourselves why the scholar is saying what and what proof does the scholar give, ect. Allah (swt) tells us more than once in Quran that the Qur'an is here for our guidance and to read it and reason and reflect. We have to use our own minds, study what Qur'an, sunnah, and the scholars say and then make a decison insh'Allah. We have to fear Allah (swt) and remember that what we want to be right is not necessarily going to be right and what we dont want to be right may actually be what is right. Like I always say, what seems good to us may actually not be good to us for we are only human and Allah (swt) knows best for He is perfect. [quote]Brothers and sisters, I advise you and myself to not be swayed by our nufoos.  When we look at an issue which has difference of opinion, let us try to research the matter with objectivity, putting our nafs aside, to look at all the evidences available to us, to look at which opinion seems to be held by the majority of the scholars, and who are some of those ulamaa that supported each opinon.  Only then, make your decision.  And even then, be ready to change your stance if you are presented with stronger evidences from the other opinion later on in your life.  For if you don't, then there's a possibility that your original decision was based on hawaa, not objective textual analysis performed due to an honest yearning for discovering the truth. [/quote] I totally agree.

Re: Differences of opinion
UmmWafi
07/22/03 at 00:14:29
[slm] Thank you Bro Abu Hamza for starting this thread for it is a good reminder for all of us, especially me, to be careful when posting something pertaining to usul al-Deen.  I know that your intention is sincere in wanting to create an atmosphere of objectivity and impartiality in religious discourses.  May Allah Bless you for your intentions. In essence, fatwas are nothing but advices.  Granted, the ones qualified to issue fatwas must be mu'allims but at the end of the day fatwas are advices and guidelines for a certain current issue or problem.  Muslims are not compelled to follow a certain fatwa because they are not Divine laws neither are they hadeeths nor sunnas.  However, a fatwa can be reached based on careful exegesis and analysis of Qur'anic injunctions and hadeeths and sunnas.  Still they are not absolute. There are basically two main problems, as I see it.  The first problem is when the issuer of fatwa present his fatwa as THE authoritative stand on a particular issue.  We must admit that not many Muslims nowadays are students of the Deen, ie, not many of us can lay claim that like the tabi'iin of yore, we have access to extensive sources of knowledge.  This being the case, most Muslims mistakenly see fatwas as a definitive legal ruling.  A fatwa can be used as a basis for a legal ruling but it is not automatically one.  Please remember that fatwas are derived from exercising ra'iy and qiyaas, both of which are sources of usul al-fiqh.  Even then, there are ikhtilafs on the usage of ra'iy and qiyaas as reliable and good sources of usul.  Therefore, we must bear in mind that what we believe and what we hold to be the absolute truth in fiqh rulings may be different from another person's, based on his acceptance of another juridical exercise. That being the case, we must allow for differences without being intrinsically different from each other. The second problem I see is the Muslim's misplaced scepticism and apathy.  We live in a time where there are some fake ulamaa's who unabashedly manipulate situations to gain power and leadership, Astargfirullah.  Exposed to an environment where Islam is no longer sacred to some, it is understandable why some Muslims began to develop a healthy scepticism of new fatwas.  However, the scepticism becomes unhealthy when we start questioning and wantonly dismiss years and decades of research by Muslim scholars.  I have even heard some Muslims dismiss Imam Bukhari and some other muhaadithuun as doubtful, na'udzubillah.  Some of us have reached a stage where we scoff scholars and prefer to solely depend on our ijtihaad.  Yes, we are all eventually responsible for our own graves, but seriously, how many of us even comes close to having knowledge and the mental abilities of such as Imam al-Ghazaali or al-Taftazaani or al-'Ashaari and many others ? I would say in all humility that I doubt my mental ability to be even 10% of theirs.  Our ijtihad must be guided, as theirs had been.  What is our guidance, besides the Qur'an and the Sunnahs ?  Well the wareeths of the 'anbiyaas, ie, the scholars.  A discerning and discriminating mind is fine and good but remember negative shaqq is the legacy of Iblis, na'udzubillah.  Amidst our differences, we must be discerning enough to know that Islam allow for ikhtilafs so that we can remain as a jama'ah. My dearest brothers and sisters, I am no expert in any matters, and I am aware that my written piece above is fraught with mistakes and errors, so I beg your forgiveness.  However, my intention is good, In shaa Allah.  I am reminded of two hadeeths by our beloved Prophet Muhammad [saw] (I can't provide the exact source now cos I am at an internet cafe but I appreciate anyone who can).  In one he said that his way is simple and generous.  Let us emulate his way.  Let us not convolute simple things into a quagmire of confusion and enmity.  In the second hadeeth he said that the beloved Muslim is one who unites the Ummah and not split it asunder.  This is a time when the Ummah sorely needs uniting and after all....fatwas are meant to help us live our lives as good Muslims.  That does not start with finger pointing and in-fighting.  Instead, it starts with humility and the realisation that al-Haqq is with Allah SWT. Allahu 'alam bissawab. Wassalam.

Re: Differences of opinion
momineqbal
07/22/03 at 01:56:28
[slm], I attended a workshop on Fiqh long time back. It was given by Dr. Hisham Abdullah of Bay area. I will try to ask around if someone has good notes on it, in the meanwhile here is what I took down in my notebook (I am a very bad notes taker). I am not sure if this will help anyone, but just in case  ;-) Fiqh - literally means understanding. But it has also come to mean rulings in shariah relating to Ibadah and Muamalat and does not get into Aqeedah/Spiritual dimension of things. Taqleed (literally surrendering your neck) is opposite of Ijtihad (I guess most people on here have some idea what Ijtihad means). So Taqleed is following an opinion without any questioning or investigation. In between Ijtihad and Taqleed is Ittiba3', in which a person follows a paricular opinion while knowing the Daleel (evidence). Historically speaking there were two centers of scholarship initially. Hijaz was a center for Madrasatul Hadeeth while Iraq was a center for Madrasatul Ra'e. My understanding is that Madrasatul Hadeeth stressed on following the Hadeeth strictly, while Madrasatul Ra'e also looked to reasoning. A lot of difference in opinion among major scholars like Abu Haneefa and the rest occur because of the level the scholars kept the sources (Quran and Hadeeth) at while deriving their fiqh. Madrasatul Hadeeth regarded Quran and Hadeeth to be at the same level, whereas Madrasatul Ra'e regarded Quran as Primary and Hadeeth as a Secondary source. Some scholars: Imam Abu Haneefa - 80 - 150 AH Imam Malik - 93 - 179 AH Imam Shafaei - 150 - 204 AH (So Imam Abu Haneefa and Imam Shafaei never met) Imam Ahmed - 164 - 241 AH Abu Haneefa's student Muhammad ibn Al Hassan met Imam Malik and associated with him and learnt from him. Other Major student of Imam Abu Haneefa was Imam Abu Yusuf. Al-Muatta - Work of Imam Malik, one of narrator of Al-Muatta was Muhammad ibn Al Hassan. Imam Abu Haneefa did not start teaching until the age of 40 (He did not consider himself fit to teach until then). There were lot of other scholars as well during these times some of whom had their own independent opinions from the above mentioned scholars. Madhabs started by students of students. Abu Haneefa - Abu Yusuf became chief Qadi and schools got established. Imam Malik - Al Mansoor requested Imam Malik to write AlMuatta and asked him to make easy, neither too strict nor too lenient). Imam Malik refused to let his book be distributed all over the khilafah, since he thought his fiqh might not be applicable to all place. Imam Shafaei - Born in Ghazza. He became a reference in arabic language. He got influence of both Madrasas (Hadeeth and Ra'e). Only of the 4 Imams to wite down his methodology (ArRisalah - first book on Usul Al-Fiqh). Moved to Egypt from Iraq. He learnt from Imam Malik. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal - Authored Al-musnad (collected hadeeth and organized according to narrators). 1 to 2 % of muslims follow his madhab). Ibn Taymiah - Originally studied madhab of Imam Ahmad, but later on developed his own independent opinions on may subjects. Madhabs started getting down to generations like a funnel effect. Abu Haneefa said - No one should follow me if they do not know my daleel. Similar things said by other scholars. There has been lot of recycling of Fiqh over the many centuries. Where we stand: 6 Categories: 1. Ammi or lay person. Ijtihad is prohibited for this category. Taqleed is mandatory. Cannot give fatwa to others except in very general well known matters. 2. Muttabi. Someone with some degree of knowledge/education. Follows an opinion but also tries to know the Daleel behind them.  Most of us should strive to be in this category. Must be careful and not consider oneself a mujtahid. 3. Faqeeh Al Madhab - Someone who knows a particular madhab's rulings as well as the usool (methodology) used to derive them. Qualified to give fatwa within a madhab. 4. Mujtahid Juzi' - Knows more than one madhab's rulings and their usool. Can perform Ijtihad in a madhab. 5. Mujtahid - General Mujtahid. 6. Mujtahid Mutlaq - Highest level of Mujtahid on whom Ijtihad is mandatory. Not very many present in these times, maybe less than half a dozen or even less. scale: Ammi - Muttabi - Faqeeh Al Madhab - Mujtahid Juzi' - Mujtahid - Mujtahid Mutlaq Prohibited ----------------------------Ijtihad----------------------------Mandatory Mandatory ---------------------------Taqleed----------------------------Prohibited General advice - Fanaticism is prohibited. Madhab should not become an identity. Taqleed is permissible. It is permissible to follow just one madhab. Know your limits.

Re: Differences of opinion
bhaloo
07/22/03 at 23:57:17
[slm] Nice post Sofia, I was going to mention Sheikh Taha's Ethics of Disagreement.   Another good book is Dr. Bilal Philip's  book, The Evolution of Fiqh (Jannah is a big fan of his writing and eventually convinced me). It does a nice job of discussing fiqh through the years and the different madhabs that developed and briefly goes into the key points of each school.  A much more detailed book and one that I highly recommend is the Four Imams, you can find it here: http://store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b6806.html (I actually did a book review on the Maliki madhab from that book on the board some time back in the INternational Kabob House.)   [quote author=Muhammad Ahmed link=board=madrasa;num=1058733078;start=0#11 date=07/21/03 at 04:16:51]2) i think the perscription i chose is the best because my knowledge of medical science and the disease tells me it is the most sound position. I choose it because it is "technically" the best. Reason 1 corresponds to unleashing ur ego. Reason 2 corresponds to making ijtihad. How is an ignorant man to "technically" assess a perscription without a high probability of his subconsciously succuming to reason 1? He has no knolwedge of medicine or how a diagnosis is made. The perscriptions will "sort of" make sense to him cuz the doctors will explain them in laymans terms .. so all his knowledge came from the 3 doctors.. maybe the perscription he chooses is wrong and bad but he cant figure that out as he is unaware of some factor that the doctor didnt explain to him,..or didnt take into account... [/quote] Thank you for enforcing my point. Remember all 3 doctors are supposed to be licensed experts and have credentials.  You are correct in saying that all his knowledge on this particular matter came from the 3 doctors.  Let's say one of the doctors prescribed a certain medication, mainly because it was recommended to him by a certain manufacturer whom he trusts and has usually relied on.  But unknown to the doctor (because he hasn't done extensive research in this particular matter) the medication has side effects in some patients.  If he was sticking with only one doctor, we can see that this is a problem.  But by him going to the other doctors, who have done a little bit more research in this particular matter, they advise him against it.    And we can clearly see that for the patient, it was better that he had other opinions.   [quote] In real life people only get a 2nd opinion when they don't like the treatment the first doctor offers.. eithers its too expensive or includes a risky operation or some costly procedure... so they are already looking for an easier way to solve their problem.. which is understandable and makes sense.. That is why this analogy does not fit perfectly... [/quote] You are correct in saying that people get a 2nd opinion under certain extreme conditions such as when there is some risk involved, a life or death situation.  Why?  They want to make sure what they are doing is right, because this is something *VERY IMPORTANT*.   The question to ask oneself is, how serious do they take their religion?  Isn't it a matter of life or death?  Shouldn't we be sure about the actions we take and the consequences? [quote] To make long story short: 1-- majority of the scholars for a majority of the time uphold that one should follow the madhabs, preferrably stick to one... [/quote] Ibn al-Qayyiam al Jawziyya's says in Alaamul-Muwaqqieen(4/261), "Does the comon person have to follow one of the well known madhabs or not? There are two sayings regarding this: That is not obligatory upon him and this is what is correct and definite since there is nothing obligatory except what Allaah,the Most high,and His Messenger(saw) have made obligatory and neither Allaah nor his Messenger made it obligatory to follow the madhab of any person from the Ummah and to follow him alone in the Deen. The best generations passed by without anyone doing this. Indeed the common person can not have a madhab ,even if he thinks that he does,since the common person has no madhab at all because the madhab will be the one who is able to research to a certain level and understand evidence and also know about the other madhabs or for the one who has read a book concerning the details of that madhab and knows the ruling and sayings of his Imaam. As for the one who is unable to do any of that but merely says'I am a Shafiee ' or "I am a Hanbaleee' etc then he does not become that just by saying so,just as would be the case if he said " I am a religous scholar' or 'I am a scholar of grammar ' or 'I am a writer' then he does not become that just by saying so. This is further clarified by the fact that the one who says 'I am a Shafiee or a Malikee' or a Hanafee' claiming that he follows that Imaam and his way,this would only be true if he were to follow his way in acquiring knowledge ,unederstanding and extraction of proof. As for this one,with his ignorance and being far from the manners of the Imaam and his knowledge and way,then how can it be correct for him to ascribe himself to him except with mere claims and empty words having no meaning?! How can the common person have a madhab and even if it could be imagined,then still it would not be obligatory upon him or anyone else to ever have to follow the madhab of a certain man from the Ummah ,such that he accepts all his sayings and rejects everyone else's sayings.This is a filthy innovation introduced into the Ummah;no scholar of Islaam has ever said this and they are higher in station and better knowing about Allaah than to order the people wth this.  Even further from the truth is the saying of those who say that he must stick to the madhab of a single scholar and even further from the truth is the one who says,he must follow one of the four madhabs! O Allaah, how strange
07/23/03 at 00:01:48
bhaloo

Re: Differences of opinion
humble_muslim
07/23/03 at 00:42:08
AA Let's please try to avoid getting into a madhab vs. non-madhab fight here.
NS

Re: Differences of opinion
Nawawi
07/23/03 at 12:09:58
Sufyan at Thawri said, "If you see a man doing something over which there is a debate among the scholars, and you yourself believe it to be forbidden, you should forbid him from doing it."(al-Dajaw,Imaam, Maqalat wa Fatawa (Cairo:Majmu al Buhuth al Islamiya) 1492, II, and 575) Imaam Nawawi and even Ibn Taymiyyah mentioned something along the similar lines: "Scholars only protest against that which musters unanimous consensus: as for what does not muster unanimous consensus, then there is no permission to protest" (Al Nawawi, Sharah Sahih Muslim, Chapter entiteld: Al Amr bi Al maruf wa al Nahy an al Munkar.  This statement is reiterated verbatim by Ibn Taymiyyah in Majmu Al Fatawa al Kubra (Dar Al Marifa edition, 2:33) And Allah knows best.

Re: Differences of opinion
Nomi
07/26/03 at 18:22:45
[slm] [quote author=bhaloo link=board=madrasa;num=1058733078;start=15#23 date=07/22/03 at 23:57:17] How can the common person have a madhab and even if it could be imagined,then still it would not be obligatory upon him or anyone else to ever have to follow the madhab of a certain man from the Ummah ,such that he accepts all his sayings and rejects everyone else's sayings.This is a filthy innovation introduced into the Ummah [/quote] This i agree with but differently! Because imaams were alot more learned than scholars of today and i agree with this because following a scholar of today to the full is indeed a filthy innovation introduced into the Ummah [quote author=bhaloo link=board=madrasa;num=1058733078;start=15#23 date=07/22/03 at 23:57:17] That is not obligatory upon him and this is what is correct and definite since there is nothing obligatory except what Allaah,the Most high,and His Messenger(saw) have made obligatory[/quote] What about "ijtihaad" then? Wouldn't it become obligatory for us if the jumhoor come up with a solution to some problem ? [quote author=bhaloo link=board=madrasa;num=1058733078;start=15#23 date=07/22/03 at 23:57:17] Indeed the common person can not have a madhab ,even if he thinks that he does,since the common person has no madhab at all because the madhab will be the one who is able to research to a certain level and understand evidence and also know about the other madhabs or for the one who has read a book concerning the details of that madhab and knows the ruling and sayings of his Imaam. [/quote] Arn't we asking too much from the common person here, honestly, how many among the ummah are learned and how many among the learned are learned when it comes to deen. There are many who when presented with couple or more different ways of going about an islamic practice get confused, irretated and sometimes discouraged unfortunately. Why not keep it simple, why not let them follow one madhab coz all four of them are comprehensive enough, why ask them to do all the research work coz neither it has happened in the past not it'll happen in the future that all the ummah carry out this research. [quote author=bhaloo link=board=madrasa;num=1058733078;start=15#23 date=07/22/03 at 23:57:17] As for this one,with his ignorance and being far from the manners of the Imaam and his knowledge and way,then how can it be correct for him to ascribe himself to him except with mere claims and empty words having no meaning?![/quote] Lets take it one step higher, one says s/he is a Muslim and then he is failing in some areas of deen, what now? Is him saying 'i'm a Muslim' a mere claim and his are empty words having no meaning? Last but not the least, when you ask a common person to choose from the fiqh/ruling of different imaams (not scholars of today) then more likely that person will go for what suits him/her in that particular situation s/he is in at the moment, s/he may revert to another imaams way at/in someother time/situation. Now as that person is going for the easier way then there are broad chances for such people falling prey to the fatawa that go 180 degree from the original teachings of islaam coz them people were following their nafs. Let me make it clear that i'm not generalizing here, there are lots of people with high high faith and will never play such games but just have a look at the ummah as a whole. I apologize if my comments hurt/offended anyone.
07/26/03 at 18:55:57
Nomi

Re: Differences of opinion
Nabila
07/27/03 at 06:41:01
[slm] Many of the Imaams have made statements like:- 'no one should follow our rulings [i] unless he knows where we have derived them from[/i]' and 'If a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then it is my madhhab' and '[i] Do not follow my opinion[/i] ; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi’i, nor Awzaa’i, nor Thawri, [i] but take from where they took'[/i] and 'Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). [i]Therefore, look into my opinion [/i]: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does nkt agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it.” Were these statements directed at their students or to people in general? Because the students would have the tools for looking at the sources, as the scholars recommended. If they were directed at people in general, however, then does that mean that a certain amount of knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim so that we can heed their requests for 'looking into their opinion'? How should we interpret 'take from where they took'? - To a lay person it may sound like, ''Do your own fatwas'' whereas it means something else perhaps? At the very least, are the scholars asking us to be able to see how they derived their opinion (something which may not require knowledge, but logic - to be able to see the progression from source to fatwa)? Confused - would appreciate any help... :) ma asalaamah and take care

Re: Differences of opinion
sofia
07/28/03 at 10:34:03
As-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah, [quote]Why not keep it simple, why not let them follow one madhab coz all four of them are comprehensive enough, why ask them to do all the research work coz neither it has happened in the past not it'll happen in the future that all the ummah carry out this research. [/quote] None of our scholars (at least not those listed above) argue that it is haraam to follow one madh-hab. Nor has that been argued here. [quote]What about "ijtihaad" then? Wouldn't it become obligatory for us if the jumhoor come up with a solution to some problem ? [/quote] May want to ask a scholar/shaikh, since you are questioning a scholar's quote/naseehah. Also, see the 3rd bullet point from the notes below. Just as we can make the argument that those who do not choose one madh-hab may fall prey to choosing the "easiest" fatwa they hear, we can also argue that those who choose only one madh-hab, don't actually "choose" it at all. Most "common/laypeople" haven't studied all of the madh-habs, let alone their own madh-hab, and just take on the madh-hab of their parents/locality. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I realize I'm generalizing here, but I'm talking about the 'Aam/general/majority. And some may accept a "fatwa" that's not even a fatwa, not realizing that they have taken the opinion of someone other than their scholars, since they may not have researched where their evidence is coming from. And that can be a bad thing. Bottom line: with or without the claim of following one madh-hab, we have to be careful. Islaam is a simple religion; ie, we are not asked to do more than we can bear, nor more than what is reasonable. What we are requested to do, is to follow the teachings of the Prophet (S) and stick to the jama'a/the "group" or majority. If someone comes to us with daleel for a certain action, there is a certain amount of "trust" when it comes from a scholar (and M. Al-Shareef was asked how we know someone is trustworthy as a scholar. He mentioned, we should check out where/how s/he was educated, they should be in the habit of giving their proof when they speak, and they will most likely end their naseehah with "Allahu A'lim." There's more to it, but there's a general bit of advice). When it comes from a lay-person, we should know where the daleel comes from, before accepting it blindly. Once we delve into more technical issues, we should still study and seek advice from "those who know." So yes, we do have a certain amount of responsibility (ie, we must know what the shahadah means in order to believe in it; ie, be a Muslim), we're not alone (insha'Allah, we'll always have scholars), and it is fard to seek knowledge in this deen. I found some notes from an Usool-ul-Fiqh course with Muhammad Al-Shareef (there are many on this board who have taken more in-depth courses, so please correct me if I've misinterpreted anything). There were some points that he made that may be helpful to this discussion. I won't get into posting the main notes, since I highly recommend everyone take an Intro level class. The course wasn't meant to make anyone a scholar (not even close), but to understand & realize what it means to be a mujtahid. And to make us realize how far we are from being a mujtahid (as lay-people). It wasn't as historical as the course the other brother took who posted his notes, but moreso explanatory in definitions and applications. And a lot of the points below were actually side comments made be M Al-Shareef, but important, nonetheless. Btw--M. Al-Shareef got his degree in Islaamic law (LLB or something) from Medinah University, is a hafidh of the Qur'aan, etc. [color=blue] -"Usool-ul-Fiqh" is not fiqh. It's learning the principles of fiqh; ie, where the rulings for actions come from, how, when, etc. -Using the example of the Prophet (S) ordering his followers not to pray 'Asr until they reached Banu Quraidhah: two rulings (ie, there is ikhtilaaf) for one situation are not both correct. However, it's not necessarily sinful if there is sincerity in trying to come to a conclusion. Both may actually be rewarded, if they sincerely struggled to come up with the right conclusion. So ikhtilaaf does exist, as long as there are legitimate sources/daleel. -Anyone who goes against the ijmaa' of the scholars is mistaken; there is no room for ikhtilaaf when there is ijmaa'. Ijmaa' overrides qiyaas; ie, if there is no ijmaa' and only qiyaas exists for a certain situation, it does not have the status of ijmaa'; ie, there can be ikhtilaaf. [i]M. Al-Shareef went on to discuss different types of rulings, and which over-ride what. This is just an example.[/i] -The ruling of an ameer eliminates difference of opinion/ikhtilaaf. Ex/ deciding when to start or end Ramadhaan. Unless there is absolute certaintly, the 'ameer's ruling must be followed. There is no room for difference of opinion in these circumstances. -The default ruling for an act of 'ibaadah is haraam, unless there is proof provided otherwise, indicating that it's halaal (ie, the burden of proof is on the one who brings the opinion that it's halaal). Ex/ praying a certain way. -The default ruling for a mu'amalaat (non-ibaadah) act is that it is halaal, unless there is proof indicating that it's haraam (ie, the burden of proof is on the one who brings the opinion that it's haraam). Ex/ wearing a leather jacket. -The people of bidah will do an act, and [i]then[/i] look for proof in the Qur'aan/Sunnah. The people of the sunnah will look towards the Qur'aan/Sunnah first, and then base their actions accordingly. -Some students asked M. Al-Shareef: Must we follow a madh-hab? He directed us towards Shaikh Salah's answer, which coincides with many of our pious predecessors. He also said: Choosing a madh-hab is only obligatory on the mujtahid, not on a lay-person, since they can't make ijtehaad. The lay-person's madh-hab is based on the madh-hab of the scholar that they asked. It's an "impossible dream" to have only one madh-hab (or even limit it to 4), even amongst the scholars, even if they relied on all of the same evidence (historically, they have not), since there will always be some difference of opinion. Allah will ask us, did you listen to the Prophet? Not, which madh-hab did you belong to. So (if we say we follow a madh-hab), we must either start from where they (the scholars) have started from (and get to the same basic conclusions that they got to), or we continue from where they left off (ie, learn their fatawa & proofs and move on from there). [/color] As alluded to, this is in indication that the "doors of ijtehaad" are not closed. However, there is less scholarship today than ever before, and ijtehaad is not possible by a lay-person. Our scholars spent their lives in study and pursuit of the best conclusions (which is not impossible for anyone else to do). We, as mentioned, sometimes just follow our own nafs (selves or lower desires) and spend our lives in pursuit of things which have little benefit to our aakhirah. May Allah protect our scholars and increase us all in 'ilm/knowledge, aameen. Disclaimer: Any mistakes in this are mine, I am only a "beginner lay-person." Again, I have not included the main body of notes from the course, only those that may pertain to this thread. Allahu A'lim.
07/28/03 at 16:00:39
sofia

Re: Differences of opinion
Nawawi
07/28/03 at 17:28:09
[quote author=lady_murasaki_sa link=board=madrasa;num=1058733078;start=15#27 date=07/27/03 at 06:41:01] [slm] Many of the Imaams have made statements like:- 'no one should follow our rulings [i] unless he knows where we have derived them from[/i]' and 'If a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then it is my madhhab' and '[i] Do not follow my opinion[/i] ; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi’i, nor Awzaa’i, nor Thawri, [i] but take from where they took'[/i] and 'Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). [i]Therefore, look into my opinion [/i]: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it.” Were these statements directed at their students or to people in general? Because the students would have the tools for looking at the sources, as the scholars recommended. If they were directed at people in general, however, then does that mean that a certain amount of knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim so that we can heed their requests for 'looking into their opinion'? How should we interpret 'take from where they took'? - To a lay person it may sound like, ''Do your own fatwas'' whereas it means something else perhaps? [/quote] Only the ignorant would think that these statements from the Ulama were directed to the general people. They were directed to the scholars and the students of knowledge.. These statements are used by anti-madhab people to convince people that you should follow them instead of Imaam Shafi, Imaam Malik, Imaam Abu Hanifa, and Imaam Ahmad. It is of the igorance of the person to say, [u]the Imaams were men and I am a man.  [/u] If you realized how much the four Imaams knew, you would be quiet. This includes the Imaams that came after the four Imaams as well.  Like Nawawi, Suyuti, Bayhaqi, Dhahabi, Ibn Qayyim, Ibn Rajab, Ibn Hajar Asqanlani, Ibn Hajar haytami, Abu Bkar ibn Arabi, Qadi Iyad, Qurtabi, Ibn Qudamah, Izz Ibn Abdal Salam, Tahawi and many more You can rest assured that the Ulama that I have listed were Hafiz of hadith memorizing at 100,000 along with its chain of transmission. And when they made a fatwa, to assume they didn't know the hadith, is completely insane.  These Imaam were well aware of the difference opinions as well as what those different opinions were based on. When you start to study usul fiqh you will learn,that when they didn't act upon a particular hadith it was because of a number reason, 1. Hadith is not strongest enough to act upon, even though many scholars may have consider the hadith authentic (ie. hadith found in Bukhari or Muslim). (many times Hanafis and Malikis will not act upon Ahad hadith even though they are Sahih because according to their usul it is just not strong enough in terms of making a ruling.) 2.  because of an usul principle they will disregard the hadith (ie ihtisan, maslahah mursalah or Sadd Dharai- you will find this alot among Hanafi and Malikis, although these principle exist with the Hanbali- it is very very rare that a principle in usul will over ride a textual evidence-  These principles are not really part of the Shafi madhab) 3.  They regard the hadith as Sahih but the fuqaha understand it different. (some may feel it is aborgated, some say the hadith is general while other may say it is specific, the lingustic meaning of the hadith, either the wording or the grammar) We can sit and cry about how my shaikh thinks this or that.  But all these principles I mentioned above in regards to the why some scholars will not act upon a hadith or act upon a hadith wre principle used by the Salafus Saleh. So don't let people try to bully you with words like, I follow authentic hadith or authentic sunnah or I follow such and such according to the salafus saleh.  Most people who say this, don't even know how to grade hadith nor do they know everything that was taught by the salafus saleh anyway.   [u]Most of them are parrots.  And don't understand half of what they are saying or quoting. [/u] I am pretty sure their are more reasons as to why a scholar will not act upon a hadith, but this is all I can remember.   And Allah knows best.

Re: Differences of opinion
Nomi
07/28/03 at 18:56:16
[slm] Wanted to comment but am chosing not to coz i'm told "baroon say zayada bayhas nahee kertaay" :). But just a few words on this. [quote author=sofia link=board=madrasa;num=1058733078;start=15#28 date=07/28/03 at 10:34:03] Islaam is a simple religion; ie, we are not asked to do more than we can bear, nor more than what is reasonable.[/quote] Indeed we are not asked to do more than what we can handle but, IMHO, islam is by no means an easy/simple religion to follow !! Islaam is nothing but the truth and this fact is clear as daylight but to follow islaam and to become one of the obedient to God (Allah) we are required to conform our lives with the rulings of islaam. Islam guides us in all spheres of life and to go by it is not easy/simple coz its a 24 hour job. We just can't be care-free, must watchout all the time, must fight our nafs 24/7 and thats not easy/simple !! Just a thought...... . . . . lemme give u peeps the meanings of that urdu phrase too.. (don't argue unnecessarily with elders :) ) but thats not the rule of thumb !

Re: Differences of opinion
Abu_Hamza
07/28/03 at 20:20:36
[slm] A reminder, from the Constitution: No prolonged arguments about any issues that even the scholars of Islam over the centuries have not come to a consensus on! This includes controversial issues (i.e. meat, music, Mawlid, the Taliban, voting, [color=red]Madhabs[/color], bashing scholars, suicide bombings, Niqab, sunni/shia/sufi/salafi/jamaat/whatever debates).  (Article III, Clause 2). Jazaakum Allaahu khairan.

Re: Differences of opinion
Tesseract
07/29/03 at 00:08:35
Assalamu 'alaikum,           [quote]Indeed we are not asked to do more than what we can handle but, IMHO, islam is by no means an easy/simple religion to follow ![/quote]            Bro. Nomi, one should always try to be careful when choosing words  :). It is our weaknesses as humans that make us feel that our religion is not easy, but this is what Allah's messenger said: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Religion is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded; and gain strength by worshipping in the mornings, the nights." (See Fath-ul-Bari, Page 102, Vol 1). Reported by Bukhari. Wassalam.

Re: Differences of opinion
Nabila
07/29/03 at 08:49:09
[slm] The link is here: http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=78852 Question of Fatwa Do newly converts, men and women, have to abide by a certain school of the well-known Juristic Schools: Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi`i, Hanbali schools? If yes, can he/she choose his/her own Madhhab according to his/her free will? What about a woman, should she abide by the same Juristic School (Madhhab) of her husband?       Name of Mufti European Council for Fatwa and Research       Content of Reply In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.   All thanks and praise are due to Allah and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.   Dear questioner! Thanks a lot for the great confidence you place in us and for the interest you show in understanding the teachings of Islam.   It is to be noted above all that Islam compels neither the newly converts nor anyone else to follow a certain Madhhab (Juristic School). Every Muslim is free to choose any of the well-known authoritative Sunni Madhahib. Following any of these Madhahib (sing. Madhhab) does not mean that one has to insist on such a Madhhab or force the others to abide by it. In other words, if the husband follows a certain Madhhab, this does not mean that his wife should abide by the same Madhhab.   Actually, it’s not easy for a layman to choose between different Juristic opinions, and who knows not the judgment pertaining to a certain issue should consult a trusted scholar or a knowledgeable person and abide by the Madhhab of that scholar or person.   Given the fact that there are many Madhahib that provide facility for people, the newly converts are in no way obliged to follow a certain Madhhab.   Shedding more light on the issue, the Fatwa of the European Council for Fatwa and Research goes as follow:   “Abiding by a certain Madhhab is not a religious obligation. Neither Allah nor His Messenger oblige us to abide by Hanafi, Maliki school or otherwise. Muslims are to abide by the Qur’an and the Sunnah. These are the two authentic, perfect, infallible sources, whereas every individual judgment is subject to acceptance and rejection. The renowned Imams themselves forbade others to unquestionably adopt their opinions.   Muslim jurists, however, agree that there is no specific Madhhab for the layman, he should abide by the Madhhab of the one who is capable of giving him a Fatwa.   The term ‘layman’ here refers to the person who cannot study the proofs of every ruling and give priority to a ruling over another. Such a person should have no Madhhab. Choosing a certain Juristic School entails giving priority and preference to certain proofs over others; this is the job for only erudite scholars. As for a commoner, he should follow the opinion of the scholar who gives him Fatwa. Whenever he has a certain problem, he can consult an Imam or a Sheikh and follow his Fatwa. Almighty Allah says: “Ask the followers of the Remembrance if ye know not!” (An-Nahl: 43) And the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said concerning some people: “Why don’t they inquire if they know not, verily inquiry is the cure of ignorance.”   If an ordinary Muslim lives in a country in which all of its jurists follow a certain Madhhab, then he can follow the Madhhab adopted in his country. In fact, the common Muslim should follow the Jurists of his country and their Madhhab. But he should not insist on abiding by his Madhhabor belittle the other Madhahib. If it appears to him that the judgment pertaining to his Madhhab is weak in a certain issue, he should follow the judgment of the strong and sound Madhhab. A true Muslim always seeks the sound evidence and abides by it wherever it might be.   Imam Abu Hanifah is quoted to have said: “This is our opinion and we are ready to listen to him who brings a better opinion.” Imam Malik said: “Everyone’s opinion could be accepted or rejected except that of the one buried in this grave (pointing to the grave of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him). Ash-Shafi`i also said: “If a Hadith proves to be authentic (regarding a certain issue), then accept it and reject whatever religious opinion I may utter (regarding the same issue).”   Every Muslim is free to choose the better and sound Madhahib. It is not an obligation for the son to follow his father or for the wife to follow the same Madhahib of her husband.   Thus, we can say that the most appropriate ruling for the newly converts is not to abide by a certain Madhahib, for this places many restrictions and inflicts hardship on them. Those newly converts are welcome to Islam, a religion that has a treasure of religious texts and great objectives. While a certain Madhahib may prove to be difficult, another can provide facility and easiness. We, Muslims are commanded to make things easy for people, and give them glad tidings specially newly converts.   In short, the newly converts, men and women, are not obliged to follow a certain Madhahib. If a husband follows a certain Madhab, for some reason or another, it is not obligatory for his wife to abide by the same Madhahib.”   Almighty Allah knows best.

Re: Differences of opinion
muahmed
08/02/03 at 02:41:38
[slm] [quote author=lady_murasaki_sa link=board=madrasa;num=1058733078;start=15#27 date=07/27/03 at 06:41:01] Many of the Imaams have made statements like:- 'no one should follow our rulings [i] unless he knows where we have derived them from[/i]' and 'If a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then it is my madhhab' and '[i] Do not follow my opinion[/i] ; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi’i, nor Awzaa’i, nor Thawri, [i] but take from where they took'[/i] and 'Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). [i]Therefore, look into my opinion [/i]: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it.” [/quote] The four madhabs are not the work of four people, but about 10 centuries of scholarship. The final version of each madhab is based on the concensus of hundreds of great mujtahid imams over 8 to 10 centuries. And ofcourse none of the madhabs is static. Part of the rulings, like those that apply to prayer, zakat, hajj are static but part of the rulings depend on time and location. The imams had great fore-sight. Had they not made statements like the above no one would have modified or added to their rulings and the madhabs would be a long forgotten thing of the past. Those statements were for mujtahids like them and not for people like me. Hamza Yusuf's sheikh, Sheikh Murabatul Hajj who is regarded as one of the most learned scholars alive today gave a fatwa stating in these times it is imperative to follow the madhabs. To say the companions of the Prophet (PBUH) acted like the current day Muslims, especially in America and Europe in evaluating fatwas themselves and accepting those they find "valid" and rejecting those they find "faulty" is completely wrong. There were 14 fuqaha amongst the companions whom the rest followed. Those 14 included Hazrat Aisha (radiAllah taala). These 14 esteemed fuqaha would follow 6 amongst them if they found that the ruling of those 6 differed from their own. Out of those 6, that included Omar ibn Khattab, Ali ibn Talib etc 3 would give up their position to follow the position of 3 of them (including Omer ibn Khattab and Ali ibn Talib). Hence even the companions followed 3 sort of "imams" and their rulings rather than trying to comopse fiqh themselves. Ofcourse due to the limitations of travel in those times doing that was not always possible.

Re: Differences of opinion
Tesseract
08/09/03 at 11:15:08
Assalamu 'alaikum,          [quote]-The people of bidah will do an act, and then look for proof in the Qur'aan/Sunnah. The people of the sunnah will look towards the Qur'aan/Sunnah first, and then base their actions accordingly.[/quote]                This particular thing got me thinking day and night ever since I read it. These are no doubt, some beautiful words carrying a lot of hikmah in them. What got me thinking was would it be wrong to say that  majority of Muslims today (unfortunately) are people of bid'ah and not people of sunnah. It definitely is due to lack of proper understanding and knowledge of our deen, that we act like that. But talking about knowledge and understanding of deen, to me, they are 2 separate things, but inter-dependent. Without certain knowledge, one cannot have the proper understanding to pursue the understanding of his/her deen, and without proper understanding, one cannot have the proper understanding of pursuing his/her knowledge of deen. It seems like a vicious circle. Allahu A'lam (Allah knows best). Don't know if I make sense to u people  ??? Wassalam.
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