A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Are we real or are we an illusion |
|---|
| moonie |
| 07/21/03 at 17:02:38 |
| [slm] The other day i got this magizine about sicence and on the cover it said "Are we Holograms" in the quran allah said to the nearest meaning this world is not real nothing in this world is real besides ur soul. the real life is in the hear after. i would like ur opinin on this thanks [wlm] |
| Re: Are we real or are we an illusion |
|---|
| theOriginal |
| 07/21/03 at 17:19:35 |
| [slm] we're merely perceivad by ourselves to be what we think we are. however, as abstract as that sounds, somewhere somehow, we must really be a reality... ahhh i dunno. |
| Re: Are we real or are we an illusion |
|---|
| dhameer |
| 07/21/03 at 17:55:02 |
| [quote author=Mohsin link=board=madrasa;num=1058817758;start=0#0 date=07/21/03 at 17:02:38] [slm] The other day i got this magizine about sicence and on the cover it said "Are we Holograms" in the quran allah said to the nearest meaning [wlm][/quote] [slm] We are in serious reality!! The actions of this world will affect the eternal life in the hereafter. So whereas the Hindu concept of Maya, makes man lazy in many ways and the materialism makes man arrogant and just too attached to Dunya and gives a kick that that he is 'da' master. Islam tarries a way in between these two things...... |
| Re: Are we real or are we an illusion |
|---|
| Traveler |
| 07/21/03 at 18:11:56 |
Refer to the below link for the answer to your question. http://www.hyahya.org/matter.php |
| Re: Are we real or are we an illusion |
|---|
| brother |
| 07/21/03 at 18:21:35 |
| I learnt this in a modern philosophy class Descarte said, "Cognito, ergo sum" I think, therefore I am! |
| Re: Are we real or are we an illusion |
|---|
| UmmWafi |
| 07/22/03 at 00:29:18 |
| [slm] Well...people like al-Ghazaali and al-Ashaari and Ibn Sinaa and al-Farabi and ibn 'Arabi and al-Tabrani and the whole legions of Mu'tazilii scholars had debated on this issue. If any of you are proficient in Arabic, I strongly recommend reading works on this issue in their original texts. Believe me, after 3 hours of trying to pin down the exact meaning for jism and jawhar and jumlah...I had to swallow aspirins. To think, that was only defining terms. The next 3 months saw me walking out of class brain-fried after each theology class. Subhanallah...I cannot even begin to describe the sheer magnitude and excellence of the minds and intelligence of these scholars. May Allah Reward them for their contributions. After reading them you would most prolly say "Einstein ? Who's he ?" :-* Wassalam |
| Re: Are we real or are we an illusion |
|---|
| faisalsb |
| 07/22/03 at 02:32:50 |
| [slm] Well there is a new theory what I heard from someone that some scientists believe everything is made of matter but matter itself is made of energy if we go to atom level composition. I am agreed with sister UmmWafi that there are certain secrets in this world which are beyound human intelligence. As someone gave example of human intelligence with a bowl and knowledge with sea. We can put some water from sea in a bowl but the bowl can't hold more water than it's capacity it would simply get out of it if we try to put more. |
| Re: Are we real or are we an illusion |
|---|
| muahmed |
| 07/22/03 at 04:31:55 |
| [slm] [quote author=Faisal Siddique link=board=madrasa;num=1058817758;start=0#6 date=07/22/03 at 02:32:50] [slm] Well there is a new theory what I heard from someone that some scientists believe everything is made of matter but matter itself is made of energy if we go to atom level composition. [/quote] Matter and energy are interchangeable and are connected by the famous E= mc^2 formula. The interchanging between mass and energy is observable at the atomic level. |
| Re: Are we real or are we an illusion |
|---|
| Nomi |
| 07/22/03 at 08:12:23 |
| [slm] [quote author=Mohsin link=board=madrasa;num=1058817758;start=0#0 date=07/21/03 at 17:02:38] "Are we Holograms" [/quote] What happens when we try to touch a hologram? yep we are through it :). Now hold on and lemme try it on myself. Touching my nose ... NOW ... and bingo !!! my fingure isn't through it. I exist, thank God i'm real :P. But this reality is only temporary and IS an illusion, a "real" illusion ! |
| 07/22/03 at 08:14:51 |
| Nomi |
| there is no spoon |
|---|
| se7en |
| 07/22/03 at 14:05:53 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah, there's an excellent lecture by Sidi Hamza Yusuf about this entitled "[url=http://islamicbookstore.com/a609.html]What do Muslims Believe[/url]".. y'all should check it out :) basically he said that.. this dunyaa is real.. not like the concept of 'maya' the Hindus have that bro dhameer described above.. but it's not *as* real as aakhirah 8) w'Allahu a'lam. wasalaamu alaykum warahmatullah :-) |
| 07/22/03 at 14:06:49 |
| se7en |
| Re: Are we real or are we an illusion |
|---|
| moonie |
| 07/22/03 at 19:37:08 |
| [slm] so what all of u people r saying that allah is wrong? r u saying that he cant say this before it has been proven? allah can do what ever when ever how ever. [wlm] |
| Re: Are we real or are we an illusion |
|---|
| Trustworthy |
| 07/22/03 at 20:28:35 |
| [slm] Mohsin... What ayat is that from? I suggest you read Sura Ar-Rahman. Sura #55. How can we be holograms if we are made from the substance of clay? Maybe if you tell us what surah and ayat that is from, we can help you translate it. Sometimes, I need that myself. Ma-asalaama..... |
| Re: Are we real or are we an illusion |
|---|
| UmmWafi |
| 07/23/03 at 01:21:04 |
| [wlm] [quote] Matter and energy are interchangeable and are connected by the famous E= mc^2 formula. The interchanging between mass and energy is observable at the atomic level.[/quote] Actually what is observable in the physical "world", even at atomic and sub-atomic strata, are just phenomenons. These phenomenons are isolated from any concluding facts. For example, an activity observed occurring during the meeting of mass and energy is just that. A phenomenal activity. There is no basis, scientific or otherwise, that such phenomenon occurs because of an interchange between mass and energy. E=mc2 works on the basis of causality. However, thousands of years of research by the mutakallimuun shows that the theory of causality is indefensible. Imam al-Ghazaali wrote very clearly on this. Still, there is an article by Dr Richard Frank who discussed the opposite, that is, al-Ghazaali supported causality. His arguments, I must say, fell short of the mark. (For a counter argument, read Michael Marmura's commentaries). An interesting off-shoot of this discussion is the Muslim scientists concept of noumen which the Western scientists grappled with too. As for the question of our reality and non-reality, seriously, it is not as easy as it sounds. But for a start, let us refer to the Qur'aan. And God Asked "Am I not your Lord?" To which they say ye.................... A Covenant ? Hmmmm do I then exist ? What am I ? Tune in to the next episode of......The Twilight Zone *music fades out* |
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board |