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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| Nomi |
| 07/30/03 at 12:51:01 |
| [slm] What would you encourage your kids to be ?? A mathematician, doctor, engineer, IT geek (plz dont :P), journalist ?? What naseeha would you give to others, do explain the pros as to how it can help the ummah ?? And there was a thread about choosing imam for your local community in which we saw problems of having indian/pakistani imams who are not much aware of western culture and can't be of help in certain areas for the community. So, who would encourage his/her kids to be imams/scholars ?? |
| 07/30/03 at 14:01:08 |
| Nomi |
| Re: I want to be a Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| shieldsoffaith |
| 07/30/03 at 13:51:29 |
| I would love my children to be scholars. I have two boys Ibrehim and Abdulazziz ages 15 and 13. I wish they can become scholars. However, that would probably not help them to support their families very well. Ibrehim used to say he wanted to be a pilot. However, lately he has been quiet. Any of the professions you mentioned is good brother to help in deen as long as the brothers are very pious and fair in dealings. This is just a sisters view. Hope that is ok. |
| Re: I want to be a Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| Fozia |
| 07/30/03 at 14:03:16 |
| [slm] I'm hoping Fatima Zohra will be a hafizaa she can study whatever else she wants at uni, I'm pretty relaxed about it although I think hubby would like for her to go into medicine, hopefully she'll be able to do both, but I have no intentions of pressurising her. I'll tell her what I hope for her though... Am I making any sense??? Wasalaam |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| shieldsoffaith |
| 07/30/03 at 14:09:24 |
| assalamalyakum sister, I also have daughters. Maryam and Somayah. I would love the same for them. But, as you say I will not pressure them either. You make perfect sense to me. |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| wardah |
| 07/30/03 at 18:12:38 |
| [slm] 'Ospologomelanogenomist' :-/ woa! thats made up, right?! :o might as well ask...are there any pharmacists around here? |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| Maliha |
| 07/30/03 at 18:50:28 |
| [slm] wow..i am a bit surprised at the responses... a couple of things sh. Hamza Yusuf said that made me really really reflect on what i would want for my to be children... a)the parents of Hufaadh will be resurrected on the day of Judgement with Crowns of Light on their heads. *subhana Allah* b)Rizq is already allocated to everyone even before their births. He said don't make your dunya dependent on your children, for your Rizq is Maktoob and it's unchanging regardless of what your kids do (this is for the parents who invest in the typical engineer/doc/lawyer/ etc..) c)Rizq is Maktoob, whatever your children decide to do in this life, their sustenance is guaranteed. Knowing that our children's sustenance in the dunya is guaranteed while their Akhera and our Akhera is *not*, wouldn't it be a logical choice to steer them to what is beneficial in this world *and* the next? The Ummah is currently suffering a *major* void in real scholarship. We need ulamah, as the older generations are taken back to Allah, we are going to have a serious problem leading all the way towards the very end of time where people will say Laillaha illa Allah simply because their heard their forefathers say that :( May Allah protect us all. As far as letting the children "decide"..that is a western concept that is alien to Islam. As mothers/parents we need to know what our children's strengths are and part of the Tarbiyya process is channelling that strength in a concrete way to help the Ummah. The dajjalic era is upon us, and seeking knowledge *real, substantial ilm that will help us beyond this ephermal dunya* is a fareedha on every Muslim. Just some thoughts. May Allah enlighten and illuminate our hearts. (amin). Sis, Maliha :-) [wlm] |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| deenb4dunya |
| 07/30/03 at 20:27:31 |
| Assalamu Alaikum, [quote] wow..i am a bit surprised at the responses... a couple of things sh. Hamza Yusuf said that made me really really reflect on what i would want for my to be children... a)the parents of Hufaadh will be resurrected on the day of Judgement with Crowns of Light on their heads. *subhana Allah* b)Rizq is already allocated to everyone even before their births. He said don't make your dunya dependent on your children, for your Rizq is Maktoob and it's unchanging regardless of what your kids do (this is for the parents who invest in the typical engineer/doc/lawyer/ etc..) c)Rizq is Maktoob, whatever your children decide to do in this life, their sustenance is guaranteed. Knowing that our children's sustenance in the dunya is guaranteed while their Akhera and our Akhera is *not*, wouldn't it be a logical choice to steer them to what is beneficial in this world *and* the next? The Ummah is currently suffering a *major* void in real scholarship. We need ulamah, as the older generations are taken back to Allah, we are going to have a serious problem leading all the way towards the very end of time where people will say Laillaha illa Allah simply because their heard their forefathers say that May Allah protect us all. As far as letting the children "decide"..that is a western concept that is alien to Islam. As mothers/parents we need to know what our children's strengths are and part of the Tarbiyya process is channelling that strength in a concrete way to help the Ummah. The dajjalic era is upon us, and seeking knowledge *real, substantial ilm that will help us beyond this ephermal dunya* is a fareedha on every Muslim. Just some thoughts. May Allah enlighten and illuminate our hearts. (amin). Sis, Maliha [/quote] MashaaAllaah.. well said... I wholehartedly agree with Maliha :-* Wassalamu Alaikum, Deen |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| shieldsoffaith |
| 07/31/03 at 01:55:09 |
| [quote]As far as letting the children "decide"..that is a western concept that is alien to Islam. As mothers/parents we need to know what our children's strengths are and part of the Tarbiyya process is channelling that strength in a concrete way to help the Ummah. [/quote] The problems I face daily with this one is my christian family telling my children they can make their own choices and I have no say in the matter. It is better now then it was when I was a new muslim. But, still the problem is there. I pray daily for my children knowing that dua of a mothe for her children is answered. Inshallah they will all grow to be respected muslims. [quote]The Ummah is currently suffering a *major* void in real scholarship. We need ulamah, as the older generations are taken back to Allah, we are going to have a serious problem leading all the way towards the very end of time where people will say Laillaha illa Allah simply because their heard their forefathers say that May Allah protect us all. [/quote] I didn't realize that. I will talk to my children about this one. It is quite possible I can persuade one or two of them to study Islam and become scholars. Jazakalahair (??spelling) sister. |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| timbuktu |
| 07/31/03 at 02:36:23 |
| [slm] My father was a Hafiz, but none of us took the trouble, & it is a great loss. & i was so taken in by western liberalism, that i let my chidren decide for themselves what they want to become. actually, i had done the same, as i was quite independent-minded from an early age. However, my niece took her eldest son out of school until he became a Hafiz. He is now back to school, after having become one, masha'Allah. but a scholar of Islam, that is indeed a great prize for one to have in one's family. & it is quite possible to combine a career supporting one's family, & to be a scholar of Islam. |
| 07/31/03 at 02:41:38 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| Shahida |
| 07/31/03 at 06:55:13 |
| [slm] Well, I don't have kids, *yet*, but I pray that Allah swt makes things easy on them, as I just see this world getting worse and worse...:( Anyway, Maliha said something that made me think... [quote author=Mystic link=board=madrasa;num=1059580262;start=0#5 date=07/30/03 at 18:50:28] [slm] a)the parents of Hufaadh will be resurrected on the day of Judgement with Crowns of Light on their heads. *subhana Allah* [/quote] Well, let me tell ya...this is true, alhamdulillah, but there is another side to it too...will just ALL parents of Hufaadh get raised like this? Or just some? Here in South Africa, every family *almost* has at least one son who is a haafidh. Like in my class at uni, there are at least 4 of them...and many many more around campus, mashaAllah. BUT when I look at the way they act, what they do, what their parents allow them to do, then I *shudder* at the mere thought that someone is gonna have to answer to Allah about them! The parents sent them off to the masjid to learn the Quraan off by heart...but they *never* gave them the spiritual enlightenment or sense of responsibility that goes with that beautiful blessing of being a "keeper" of the Quraan al Kareem... So where does that leave us? With *literally* 10000000 Hufaadh, but no-one I would look up to *exept* for the fact that he knows the Quraan off by heart... Just wondering about *these* parents, and what the crown on their heads will be made up of on that Day, may Allah protect, save and guide us all, ameen. Salam Shahida |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| Fozia |
| 07/31/03 at 07:53:31 |
| [quote author=Shahida link=board=madrasa;num=1059580262;start=0#9 date=07/31/03 at 06:55:13] So where does that leave us? With *literally* 10000000 Hufaadh, but no-one I would look up to *exept* for the fact that he knows the Quraan off by heart... Just wondering about *these* parents, and what the crown on their heads will be made up of on that Day, may Allah protect, save and guide us all, ameen. Salam Shahida [/quote] [slm] Hmm that's what I waas thinking about too, my husband and I were discussing this, and he said if we could send Fatima to be an Aalimah that would be good too, but I soooo want to be able to listen to my daughter recite the Quran the correct way that I'm seriously going to try to help her become one as much as I can. My ickle cousin who's about 7 decided oneday all by himself he wanted to be a Hafiz and began practicing just like that, my dad when he went back home said he heard someone reciting the Quran before Fajr namaz and he thought he was dreaming until he went to get ready for salat and there was my cousin... When I said I'd let Fatima Zohra decide what she wants, I meant that sometiems no matter how much you want something for you or your child, Allah has other plans. I don't want to make my daughter unhappy by forcing her into something she is unable to attain. But Inshallah I will try my best to guide her. I have to say though there aren't many Hafizza's around on my end of the world, my brother in law who's an Imam in Dubai, wanted to marry a Hafizaa and his family only recently found one. I don't know I appear to be rambling. Wasalaam |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| Nomi |
| 07/31/03 at 08:32:20 |
| [slm] Infact the whole purpose of my post was to bring up the topic of encouraging our children to be imams/scholars and i'll also reiterate what sis mystic and bro timbaktu said. A friend was telling me the other day that a doctor he knew went over to meet a shaykh, they shared stuff and asked about what their kids are doing these days. Shaykh replied that his fulaana son is a doctor and fulana is in Army, the doctor told him that both his sons are scholars, mashAllah. "zamanay kay andaaz" I'd say "plan it", make one of your sons a scholar.... walk the walk inshAllah My elder bro is more intelligent than me and mashAllah hes ahead in everything, now completing his third year of islamic studies after leaving his "chartered Accountancy" study. He stood first last year in the class of 45 approx. students (all graduates). He is mashAllah planning to go for another 3-4 year of religious study, pray for him inshAllah. Now we've got few volunteers in sis mystic, sis shieldsoffaith and bro timbaktu. who else ? |
| 07/31/03 at 08:54:16 |
| Nomi |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| BrKhalid |
| 07/31/03 at 09:36:35 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]The parents of Hufaadh will be resurrected on the day of Judgement with Crowns of Light on their heads[/quote] [quote]BUT when I look at the way they act, what they do, what their parents allow them to do, then I *shudder* at the mere thought that someone is gonna have to answer to Allah about them! The parents sent them off to the masjid to learn the Quraan off by heart...but they *never* gave them the spiritual enlightenment or sense of responsibility that goes with that beautiful blessing of being a "keeper" of the Quraan al Kareem...[/quote] Sr Shahida raises an important point. A Hafiz I know always stresses that the Hadith mentioned only promises its rewards if the Hafiz learns the Qur'an and then acts according to its knowledge. Without both there is no crown. Narrated Mu'adh al-Juhani: The Prophet [saw] said: If anyone recites the Qur'an [u]and acts according to its contents,[/u] on the Day of Judgment his parents will be given to wear a crown whose light is better than the light of the sun in the dwellings of this world if it were among you. So what do you think of him who acts according to his. [Abu Dawood] |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| Lana |
| 07/31/03 at 22:45:36 |
| [slm] I don't have any children but I would want them to be whatever they feel they would be good at. I know so many people who are inclined towards a certain field but have been raised being told "You must be a doctor, anything less would be failure." Many of them would make extraordinary professors, diplomats, or scholars, but instead they lose hope that there is any future in anything but the medical field. As long as my child was earning by halal means and was satisfied with his/her occupation, I would be satisfied as well. |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| Nomi |
| 08/01/03 at 19:46:37 |
| [slm] But the point is, how many kids have it in their systems that being a scholar of deen is also an option. Are they given enough food for thought/exposure ? Shall we not put things even then ! |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| Trustworthy |
| 08/01/03 at 20:10:41 |
| [slm] If I could be a scholar, that would've been my second choice to being an Astronaut. Love the stars. But then Mom said no and there goes my dream so I said it would be great if I was so knowledgable about Islam and knew the Qur'an like the back of my hand and the stories of the Prophets, etc. I told my idea to the Imams and they said, women can be knowledgable, that's good, but only men can be scholars. So that went down the drain as well. Life had it for me to be a computer technician, not an astronaut, not a scholar, and not a surgeoun, may be a peditrician....that's still being played out. But I still love reading things about Islam, hadiths and all. Chnaged my life around, let me tell ya'. My daughter has been wanting to be a teacher since she was 6. I support her decision. But I'm hoping a teacher of Islam. Ma-asalaama..... |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| timbuktu |
| 08/01/03 at 22:31:02 |
| [quote author=Trustworthy link=board=madrasa;num=1059580262;start=15#15 date=08/01/03 at 20:10:41] ......the Imams and they said, women can be knowledgable, that's good, but only men can be scholars[/quote] well sister, your imams were wrong there. There have been women scholars in the past, & there may even be some now. On this board too i see many women who know & can apply logic better than i do, but perhaps that is a reflection on my poor logic. :) women just cannot lead men in prayers, but there has been an exception as well. it is a true story: when the Afghan Jihad against the USSR occupation was on, many Afghans dispersed to various lands. This Afghan girl was working in a boutique in Paris, when a French man walked in, & well he liked this girl. He wanted to marry her, but the girl said that he should first understand what islam is, & if he accepts that islam is the true religion & becomes a muslim, the girl would marry him. He accepted islam & they were married. When it was time for salah, the girl told him to perform it. he said he hasn't learnt it. So his wife led the prayer at home & taught him Salah. When he had learnt enough, his wife asked him to lead the prayer. he was surprised at this reversal of roles, & then his wife explained to him. On islam-on-line.net discussion board, i found that the women were far more logical as well as learned. There were these two Hijabi women (aged 26-33), passionately arguing for Islam. These were medical doctors and scholars as well, & far ahead in taqwa & practice of islam than many scholars i have heard of. The men who could be called scholars on that board perhaps had more memory & access to islamic literature in English, but their logic was flawed at times, & their posts were mostly repitition of dogma. These two women were Arabs. This gives them an edge. & sister, it is possible to combine careers with scholarship. i made a mistake in my childhood, i equated islamic scholarship with hardship & a closed mind. i equated learning of arabic to becoming a mulla. and my son has inherited thie same, but it goes to show that we have prejudices. it is possible to start at any age, & become a scholar. one of the hijabi women i talked about above, told me that her great-uncle was an atheist. Upon retiring, his colleagues gave him a ticket for Umrah, & we dont know why, but he learnt all about how to perform Umrah, & came back a changed man. & he started learning the Quran, & reading & thinking about islamic issues. he became a Hafiz, he is recognized as a scholar, he went blind, but he is still very sought after as a scholar. & he must be above 80 now. i must stop now, or i will keep telling stories. |
| 08/01/03 at 22:37:04 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| Nawawi |
| 08/01/03 at 23:46:46 |
| [quote author=timbuktu link=board=madrasa;num=1059580262;start=15#16 date=08/01/03 at 22:31:02] well sister, your imams were wrong there. There have been women scholars in the past, & there may even be some now. .[/quote] This is so true. Shaykh Ul Islam Imaam As Suyuti studied under women scholars. Aisha is counted among the companions who were scholars. Asma aisha's sister was also knowledgeable, and many other female compaionscompanions. the is a book entitle Islam:The Empowering of Women by Aisha Bewley. She speaks of women scholars from the beginning of our his history. She named a female scholar that studied under Imaam Shafi. So there is no doubt that there are female scholars. |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| BroHanif |
| 08/02/03 at 09:24:48 |
| Salaams, [quote]What would you encourage your kids to be ?? A mathematician, doctor, engineer, IT geek (plz dont ), journalist ?? What naseeha would you give to others, do explain the pros as to how it can help the ummah ?? [/quote] Insha-Allah, Fatimah bint Hanif will become whatever she wants to pursue. She can become a street cleaner and that's fine, or a consultant and expert in brain surgery and thats ok or what ever she desires. Yet one thing she will not be is passive in deen. Where I live we have scholars and Alimahs(women scholars) in nearly every street. Forget the number of hufaaz, tons. Yet our community is the most backward when it comes to Islam. Why? because the scholars of today in my town bar one, have failed to provide Islamic resources for the coming generations. What is the point of learning 8 years of knowledge and then not dispersing that onto the community, what is the justification on that?. What is the point of becoming an Alimah when your bound to be shackled indoors by your husband who refuses to start any activity for the sisters. Every once in a while I get an email from a sister saying this, in fact it is so ludicrous that you can have sisters working in industry and engaging in university surrounded by fitnahs from all sides yet, when she comes home the best Islamic activity she has is listening to a scholar in urdu on the mosque receiver, one word, pathetic. We don't even have the Quran tafsir in English in fact the best a sister can do where I live is read Ibn Kathirs translation of the Quran by herself, great isn't it, NOT. And this post isn't something out of anger its something that has been going on for years. Even the Ulamah can not be ready to start an activity where I live and its really disheartening. Isn't it a surprise that our siters/brothers our going out of the fold of Islam yet there is no one there to provide them any resources in English?. Do these scholars not fear Allah as they will be questioned how they dispersed their knowledge on the 'Day of Judgement'. Make your little ones whatever they want to become, guide them, coach them but for Allahs sake do not make them passive in deen. Teach them what it means saving a life, distributing money to the poor, developing trade amongst each other and being there for Muslims/Non Muslims when injustice and oppression occur in the world. Make them see the truth of Islam and they themselves will become examples and role models for others. If your son/daughter becomes a doctor send em to the the improvished lands of Africa where there are few doctors, save a life and you have saved a humanity, people will become appreciative and who knows may even accept Islam. If you daughter becomes a techie then let is be that she develops technology that allows food wasted by Europe and US to be sent to the hungry and poor. If your son becomes an expert in medicine, let it be that he finds the cure for cancer/aids is ranked alongside Ibn Sina and always conducts himself by adhering to the Quran and Sunnah. If you make your daughter an astronomer fine, but again let he be so sharp in her work that she is ranked alongside Tahabit Ibn Qurarah. For some of our ancestors who contributed greatly to the sciences, medicine, and other fields check out: http://www.muslimheritage.com Be amazed and what they crafted and never think for one second that our children can not make a similiar if not greater contribution for Allah. Thats me with the pep talk done. Salaams Hanif |
| NS |
| 08/02/03 at 19:11:21 |
| BroHanif |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| tq |
| 08/02/03 at 11:01:54 |
| Assalamo elikuim Bro Hanif said " Make your little ones whatever they want to become, guide them, coach them but for Allahs sake do not make them passive in deen" I 101% agree with it. I always tell my sons that Islam is not only to be read but to put in practice. I dont want my sons to be doctor,engineer or anything but whatever they want to be, whatever they enjoy as long it is Halal but they will not have choice in not practicing deen and gaining knowledge, they will have to do this and I hope and pray that they will do this from their will/love also not just because of me. As for now my older one wants to be a scientist :) and maudhin(sp- the one who calls the azan) and my younger one wants to be a school bus driver :) Wasalam tq |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| shieldsoffaith |
| 08/02/03 at 14:58:51 |
| [slm] [slm] This is one nice topic I have seen here. To raise our children in deen? To have children who practice deen can only be the most joy of any parent. May all of us have the strength and endurance to follow this through!! Amen wasalam |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| lucid9 |
| 08/02/03 at 17:15:36 |
| [slm] I soo agree with BroHanif about feeling failed by our ulama and the shackling of the female scholars. Personally, I believe that the most important thing is too give children the most well rounded education you can. In the purest sense, there is no such thing as "secular education," as everything containing interesting or useful ideas falls under the purvey of islam -- as the hadith says "any good idea is the [shared] property of muslims." So, part of giving a kid a real education means ensuring that they get a very strong islamic education as well as very strong grounding in history, modern day humanism, mathematics, etc. Knowledge by itself is neutral. It is the orientation of a person which determines whether that knowledge becomes islamic or unislamic. A person with a strong islamic backgrouind will find islam, and the signs of Allah in places which at first glance might seem impossible. But first you have to make sure that kids understand what is islam is all about from a very young age, and *understand* the hadith and quran. This is no small order, but this is how the esteemed earlier generations of muslim scholars were. For example, they were religious scholars and scientists at the same time, and they didn't think there was any big deal about it. Think of Ibn Hazm. His fundamental knowledge base was so strong, that he did many things in life before he actually became a formal religious scholar later in life. Personally, since I feel that misogynism will never stop until women start dominating the religious debates by becoming the most established scholars, I would hope that many of my nieces would become out and out really proper religious scholars. The overdominant males are going to start pooping their pants if they have to start facing up to super educated relgious women scholars. |
| 08/03/03 at 10:12:14 |
| lucid9 |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| ladyTulloolah |
| 08/03/03 at 08:05:27 |
| [wlm] sisTQ wrote: [quote]and my younger one wants to be a school bus driver [/quote] :-/ Cho chweet... Simply adorable..mashaAllah. Wassalam. |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| Nomi |
| 08/03/03 at 18:03:31 |
| [slm] Bro Hanif let me first agree with your points but i've got just one Q? [quote author=BroHanif link=board=madrasa;num=1059580262;start=15#18 date=08/02/03 at 09:24:48] Even the Ulamah can not be ready to start an activity where I live and its really disheartening. Isn't it a surprise that our siters/brothers our going out of the fold of Islam yet there is no one there to provide them any resources in English?. Do these scholars not fear Allah as they will be questioned how they dispersed their knowledge on the 'Day of Judgement'. [/quote] Yep, they'll be held answerable and i guess we will be too. why? because if we know that scholars arn't helping this situation then isn't it our duty to produce such scholar who can produce these resources in english and stuff ? Dont get me wrong as i do agree with what was said above. [slm] Asim Zafar. |
| 08/03/03 at 18:06:05 |
| Nomi |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| Trustworthy |
| 08/04/03 at 14:45:35 |
| [slm] Excellent. I always thought there was something wrong about that just never did the reasearch myself. You know sometimes you do take their (Imam's) word for it. Shows to show you that knowledge can only be taught by thy self. Well, then I'll live my dream through my daughter. Just kidding, but a little guidance that way won't hurt. Insha-Allah. Jazakuhullahu Khairun for helping me out. Ma-asalaama...... |
| Re: I want to be an Ospologomelanogenomist |
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| timbuktu |
| 08/04/03 at 22:52:42 |
| [slm]sister Trustworthy, insha'Allah your daughter will fufill your dreams, but why have you given up on yourself. you can start now, & even with a slow pace, you can become an islamic scholar in say 12-15 (max 20) years. & if you make that niyya now, & start giving an hour or two every day to serious study, the thawab will be written immediately in your register. & if you are unable to complete the dream, but have kept striving for it, you will see that you will be raised with the ulema on Resurrection Day. You have to know the Quraan & AHadeeth. Make the niya now, & start. |
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