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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Hizb? |
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| xahira |
| 08/06/03 at 20:21:52 |
| slmz... wondering if ne1 can help me coz i dnt knw much bout them, but i knw thers somthing dodgy bout them... and cnt seem to put my finger on it. a friend of mine is being persuaded to join that HT thing... n i knw he shudnt, but i hav no argument against them really coz i never paid attention to them n just avoided them really. plz help som1, n explain wat makes them dodgy to me :( coz i dnt want any of my friends drawn into dodgy political parties. |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| timbuktu |
| 08/08/03 at 00:51:46 |
| [slm] from what i have read of their literature, & from someone i know, they aren't bad. i think u shouldn't worry too much. Their aqeedah seems OK. they are striving for the establishment of Khilafa, which is OK, too. They strive politically, & have suffered under repressive muslim regimes. there are a lot of muslims in this world, & in order to get their rights, they have to organise in Jamaats. i see nothing wrong if they do not fight other groups. wallahu a'alam |
| 08/13/03 at 02:11:13 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| Nomi |
| 08/08/03 at 19:17:19 |
| [slm] Hizb'u'Tehreer? yep i'll second what bro timbaktu said, most of them who i saw over here are young and zealous, just that i am yet to meet the bearded ones among them :). But i'm not judging them by that. |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| xahira |
| 08/08/03 at 20:06:07 |
| slmz.... yeh, i knw theyv got a gd concept....abroad wher ppl r oppressd yeh its gd that its organised to help them thru it, but it was just that the brit 1 seems like its becoming a cult and with the members here i just always found they were khilafa crazy but other than that nm else happening... then ppl sed stuff like, theyr like a new sect now... im just gna leave it neway, even close friends sed its nothing to fuss over. but thnx anyway... |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| Danyala |
| 08/09/03 at 09:57:24 |
| [slm] sis, Best advice i can give is get your friend or even yourself to speak to your local Imam and their opinion on it. I'm sure they'll know loads more, especially wot its like round your specific area. All the best, [wlm] |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| timbuktu |
| 08/10/03 at 02:53:48 |
| [slm] i wish i could be as trustful of the imams opinions as sister Danyala is. & brother Nomi, the HT brother i know wears a beard, & lives in Lahore. He seems a very nice guy. |
| 08/13/03 at 02:41:09 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| Danyala |
| 08/10/03 at 06:42:21 |
| [slm] hmmm why wouldn't you follow the local ulema?? A lot of people dont even give them a chance, and really where are we as an ummah if we dont follow those that have more knowledge than us... [wlm] :-* |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| salsabiil |
| 08/10/03 at 08:44:24 |
| [slm] Dear sister im a member of Hizb wa alhamdoulillah! What are your concerns and what is your wonders about the political party? I would be happy to answer all your questions! [wlm] The work of Hizb ut-Tahrir is to carry the Islamic da’wah in order to change the situation of the corrupt society so that it is transformed into an Islamic society. It aims to do this by firstly changing the society’s existing thoughts to Islamic thoughts so that such thoughts become the public opinion among the people, who are then driven to implement and act upon them. Secondly the Party works to change the emotions in the society until they become Islamic emotions that accept only that which pleases Allah (swt) and rebel against and detest anything which angers Allah (swt). Finally, the Party works to change the relationships in the society until they become Islamic relationships which proceed in accordance with the laws and solutions of Islam. These actions which the Party performs are political actions, since they relate to the affairs of the people in accordance with the Shari’ah rules and solutions, and politics in Islam is looking after the affairs of the people, either in opinion or in execution or both, according to the laws and solutions of Islam. What is manifested in these political actions is culturing the Ummah with the Islamic culture in order to melt her with Islam and to cleanse her of the corrupt creeds, false thoughts and erroneous concepts including the influence of Kufr thoughts and opinions. What is also manifested in these political actions is an intellectual and political struggle. The manifestation of an intellectual struggle is through the struggle against the thoughts and systems of Kufr. It is also manifested in the struggle against false thoughts, corrupt creeds and erroneous concepts by demonstrating their corruption, showing their error and presenting clearly the verdict of Islam concerning them. As for the political struggle, it is manifested in the struggle against the disbelieving imperialists, to deliver the Ummah from their domination and to liberate her from their influence by uprooting their intellectual, cultural, political, economic and military roots from all of the Muslim countries. The political struggle also appears in challenging the rulers, revealing their treasons and conspiracies against the Ummah, and by taking them to task and changing them if they denied the rights of the Ummah, or refrained from performing their duties towards her, or ignored any matter of her affairs, or violated the laws of Islam. So all the work of the Party is political, whether it is in office or not. Its work is not educational, as it is not a school, nor is its work concerned with giving sermons and preaching. Rather its work is political, in which the thoughts and laws of Islam are presented in order to act upon them and to carry them so as to establish them in life’s affairs and in the State. The Party conveys the da’wah for Islam so that it is implemented, and so that its ‘aqeedah becomes the foundation of the State and the foundation of its constitution and canons. This is because the Islamic ‘aqeedah is a rational creed and it is a political doctrine from which originates a system that deals with all of man’s problems, whether they are political, economic, cultural, social or any other issue for that matter. The work of Hizb ut-Tahrir is to carry the Islamic da’wah in order to change the situation of the corrupt society so that it is transformed into an Islamic society. It aims to do this by firstly changing the society’s existing thoughts to Islamic thoughts so that such thoughts become the public opinion among the people, who are then driven to implement and act upon them. Secondly the Party works to change the emotions in the society until they become Islamic emotions that accept only that which pleases Allah (swt) and rebel against and detest anything which angers Allah (swt). Finally, the Party works to change the relationships in the society until they become Islamic relationships which proceed in accordance with the laws and solutions of Islam. These actions which the Party performs are political actions, since they relate to the affairs of the people in accordance with the Shari’ah rules and solutions, and politics in Islam is looking after the affairs of the people, either in opinion or in execution or both, according to the laws and solutions of Islam. What is manifested in these political actions is culturing the Ummah with the Islamic culture in order to melt her with Islam and to cleanse her of the corrupt creeds, false thoughts and erroneous concepts including the influence of Kufr thoughts and opinions. What is also manifested in these political actions is an intellectual and political struggle. The manifestation of an intellectual struggle is through the struggle against the thoughts and systems of Kufr. It is also manifested in the struggle against false thoughts, corrupt creeds and erroneous concepts by demonstrating their corruption, showing their error and presenting clearly the verdict of Islam concerning them. As for the political struggle, it is manifested in the struggle against the disbelieving imperialists, to deliver the Ummah from their domination and to liberate her from their influence by uprooting their intellectual, cultural, political, economic and military roots from all of the Muslim countries. The political struggle also appears in challenging the rulers, revealing their treasons and conspiracies against the Ummah, and by taking them to task and changing them if they denied the rights of the Ummah, or refrained from performing their duties towards her, or ignored any matter of her affairs, or violated the laws of Islam. So all the work of the Party is political, whether it is in office or not. Its work is not educational, as it is not a school, nor is its work concerned with giving sermons and preaching. Rather its work is political, in which the thoughts and laws of Islam are presented in order to act upon them and to carry them so as to establish them in life’s affairs and in the State. The Party conveys the da’wah for Islam so that it is implemented, and so that its ‘aqeedah becomes the foundation of the State and the foundation of its constitution and canons. This is because the Islamic ‘aqeedah is a rational creed and it is a political doctrine from which originates a system that deals with all of man’s problems, whether they are political, economic, cultural, social or any other issue for that matter. [wlm] |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| Aafreen |
| 08/12/03 at 12:03:36 |
| aa brother salsabiil what exactly do you do then, practically for the good of Muslims? |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| timbuktu |
| 08/13/03 at 02:31:39 |
| [slm] sister Danyala, you have a very good question here. actually you asked first to follow the imams, & then you switched to the Ulema. So let me give you the picture here. mostly our imams are not very learned. some may be pious, some are not. They just belong to one or the other sect or group, & advise accordingly. If i ask them the reasons for their opinion, they would not be able to elaborate the Quranic verses & Ahadeeth, with the level of confidence in the Hadith. So I just take them as good for leading the prayers, & perhaps guiding me to an a'alim. The ulema are also divided into sects & groups. Of course, there are some good ones, but they are so busy one cannot get at them. I found a real a'alim who has taught in Medina University & is a real scholar with taqwa, but he is very old, & hard of hearing, so not of much use to me. Al-Hamdolillah, i have access to detailed analytical works on many topics of interest by scholars, so when I face a problem, I read up the relevant discourse, & i usually find a satisfactory answer. where i do not have info, & need a quick answer, i do ask the local ones who have more knowledge than me. but the sister was asking about a political group. This is the most tricky bit. Almost all ulema & imams regard another group as a threat to their own constituency, so they will mostly run them down. There are some exceptions, but few & far between. That is why I help out most groups wherever i can, but have not joined any. i wonder how does it work for you. sister azizah also asked about ameers, imams & sheikhs. & i am very interested in this too. How do other muslims organise their affairs. i mean there is a lot of talk of sheikhs. are sheikhs the same as religious scholars? & how binding is their opinion on ppl? |
| 08/16/03 at 07:14:18 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| Danyala |
| 08/16/03 at 07:06:40 |
| [slm] Ok my mistake...when i referred to imam i actually meant the sheikh at my mosque. Just to clarify the imam is someone who leads the prayers but not necessarily learned, and the sheikh (who happens to be my local imam) is someone who has spent his entire life learning and can refer to hadiths and quranic verses to answer any questions. I have found that if i have a question or problem it might be too awkward for a sister to approach the sheikh, so usually i send a brother to ask on behalf of me and they are very approachable to them. [wlm] :-* |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| muslim_sister_uk |
| 08/16/03 at 18:21:15 |
| [slm] Ok, I have looked into HT in the past, and considered joining in the past. I agree with the political debate, the need to re-establish Khilafah, the methodology of doing so, but one thing has held me back, and I would be grateful if any HT member could help me on this. I have been aware for a time that HT do not "share a platform" with any other group. We have local talks in my area, and have many speakers working together from different "groups". But HT refuse to participate because another group will be there. I have invited HT sisters that I know to come to local events, but get "well, it's not HT so we don't want to know." Is there really no room within HT for any other groups opinion, why can't HT unite with other groups and work together, because at the end of the day we are all Muslim, or is the Party becoming more important than the Cause??? As a result, I am not a HT member, and when I ask sisters my questions, I always get told "we'll get back to you...." But they never do. I don't mean to sound offensive, or upset any HT members here, but I do feel it is such an important issue. Re-establishment of Khilafah & carrying dawah is something we should all be aware of and working for. [wlm] Sister S. :-) |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| salsabiil |
| 08/17/03 at 13:38:15 |
| [slm]..............muslim sister in UK..... Let me explain for you why Hizb does not work together with other groups! It is not that Hizb is arrogant thinking no one is better than them...........allah knows best......but this is why: The method adopted by Hizb ut-Tahrir to convey the da’wah is Shari’ah Law derived from the seerah of the Messenger of Allah (saw) in his performance during the conveyance of the da’wah. This is so because it is obligatory to follow him, as Allah (swt) says, "Surely, in the Messenger of Allah, is the best example for those who believe in Allah and the Last Day and remember Allah often." [TMQ 33:21] "Say if you love Allah follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your sins." [TMQ 3:31] "Whatever the Messenger gives you take it, and whatever he forbids you abstain from it." [TMQ 59:7] There are many other such verses which denote that following the Messenger of Allah (saw), taking him as an example and taking all aspects of the deen from him is obligatory. Since the Muslims nowadays live in Dar al-Kufr, because they are governed with laws other than the revelation of Allah (swt), so their land resembles Makkah where the Messenger of Allah (saw) was first sent as a Messenger. Therefore, it is necessary to take the Makkan part of the Messenger of Allah’s seerah as an example in conveying the da’wah. By studying the life of the Messenger of Allah (saw) in Makkah until he (saw) had managed to establish the Islamic State in Madinah, it is evident that he (saw) went through clearly defined stages, in each of which he (saw) used to perform specific clear actions. So the Party took from that the method of action, the stages of its action and the deeds which it has to perform during these stages in accordance with the deeds which the Messenger of Allah (saw) performed during the stages of his work. Based on this, the Party defined its method of work into three stages: The First Stage: The stage of culturing to produce people who believe in the idea and the method of the Party, so that they form the Party group. The Second Stage: The stage of interaction with the Ummah, to let the Ummah embrace and carry Islam, so that the Ummah takes it up as its issue, and thus works to establish it in the affairs of life. The Third Stage: The stage of establishing government, implementing Islam generally and comprehensively, and carrying it as a message to the world. See sister the problem is many other groups work by another method than the method provided by the messenger!.......and in their work they compromize islam with kufar in order to get their work done.This is NOT permitted in islam...... To say it shortly Hizb does not work with other groups that do not adopt the method of the prophet!..... I hope i shed some light.......let me know....if you have more questions [wlm] |
| Re: Hizb? |
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| jannah |
| 08/17/03 at 16:03:14 |
| [wlm] Discussing the pros/cons/criticisms etc of Islamic groups is a banned topic. You may of course take the discussion offline ie email or private message. Jazakamullahu khairan. |
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