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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| AbdulJalil |
| 09/02/03 at 16:23:15 |
| Assalamu Alaikum if you know a non-hijabi, try these words, don't know if it will work, but you can try! "Many things that Allah(swt) made valuable in the world is covered and hard to get to. Where do you find most diamonds? Deep down in the ground, covered and protected. Where do you find most pearls? Deep down at the bottom of the ocean covered and protected in a beautiful shell. Where do you find most gold? Way down in the mine, covered with layers and layers of rock. You've got to work hard to get to them. Your body is sacred. You're far more precious than gold, diamonds, and pearls, and you should be covered too! Become the gold, diamond and pearl of your husband!" |
| 09/02/03 at 16:24:30 |
| AbdulJalil |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| shieldsoffaith |
| 09/02/03 at 16:50:42 |
| [slm] I am going to print this out and display it on my Fridge for all to see with the permission of Abduljalil. [wlm] |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| AbdulJalil |
| 09/02/03 at 23:15:46 |
| Assalamu Alaikum Yes, you may. It is actually not even my words. I just added the last sentences, and changed/added a few words. i was in a chat room and a Christian woman asked why do Muslim women cover. Someone replied to her, and i just cutted and pasted. If a Christian woman ask you about Hijab you can tell her about this verse in the bible: First Epistle to the Corinthians, chapter 11,verses 3-10. "But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven. For if a woman is not covered, let her be shaven. But if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. A man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man. For man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority over her head, because of the angels." if she is not religious, i don't know what effect it would have, but it might shock her! well, at least you can use it with christians that you know. |
| 09/02/03 at 23:21:39 |
| AbdulJalil |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| Nisa |
| 09/03/03 at 06:59:25 |
| [slm] Akhi Abdul Jalil...when I saw your post I remembered reading it before. Here's where the excerpt was taken from: [i]Taken from the book: "More Than A Hero: Muhammad Ali's Life Lessons Through His Daughter's Eyes." "If memory serves me correctly, I was wearing a little white tank top and a short black skirt. I had been raised Orthodox Muslim, so I had never before worn such revealing clothing while in my father's presence. When we finally arrived, the chauffer escorted my younger sister, Laila, and me up to my father's suite. As usual, he was hiding behind the door waiting to scare us. We exchanged many hugs and kisses as we could possibly give in one day. My father took a good look at us. Then he sat me down on his lap and said something that I will never forget. He looked me straight in the eyes and said, "Hana, everything that God made valuable in the world is covered and hard to get to. Where do you find diamonds? Deep down in the ground, covered and protected. Where do you find pearls? Deep down at the bottom of the ocean, covered up and protected in a beautiful shell. Where do you find gold? Way down in the mine, covered over with layers and layers of rock. You've got to work hard to get to them." He looked at me with serious eyes. "Your body is sacred. You're far more precious than diamonds and pearls, and you should be covered too."[/i] [wlm] :-) |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| AbdulJalil |
| 09/03/03 at 11:19:43 |
| Assalamu Alaikum Thank you sister. i guess the person had memorized the passage or was cutting and pasting too! It is great way to put it, without soundind too religious, because many of the women that ask are not that religious,sometimes. |
| 09/03/03 at 11:21:41 |
| AbdulJalil |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| Nisa |
| 09/03/03 at 11:27:15 |
| [slm] You're welcome akhi. Agreed...I have asked a lot of non-muslims (and muslims) to ponder on it, and their reaction is....that is sooo true :o Alhamdulillah :) [wlm] |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| hayat |
| 09/04/03 at 03:53:41 |
| [slm] @ akhi abduljalil but is this excerpt from the bible not from the old testament? in our school there was a catholic religion teacher who said that she would one day come to school with a hijab on in order to find out how her pupils would react (there was and still is a discussion going on in germany whether muslim teachers with hijab are allowed to teach at normal schools, currently the case is in the supreme yourt here) well this teacher did really come with hijab to school and they had on lesson just talking about the topic of a teacher wearing hijab or not... she started the lesson of with a quote from the bible to show that even in christianity women ought to cover their heads. i dont remember whether this is the same quote you gave.. well at the end of the lesson she took the headscarf off and said that she as a christian didnt believe THAT much in the old testament thus she would not cover her head. so i wonder whether yuor quotation is also from the old testament? if so, the argument would not work that well for (religious) christians... waassalam hayat |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| Dawn |
| 09/04/03 at 06:13:44 |
| [slm] You are in luck! It is new testament material. (BTW, the writer continues on the topic for several more verses in the bible, hounding home the point.) However, anyone who decides to present this to a practicing Christian would have to keep in mind that the specific issue discussed is not the covering of the head at all times or in front of non-mahrems, but rather the covering of the head while either praying or prophesying (which should really probably be better translated preaching, but that is beside the point, as elsewhere in the new testament, women are told to keep quiet in church. ::)) And also, the reasoning given is not for modesty or protection, but to publicly demonstrate her subservience to men, and specifically, to her husband (that comes from elsewhere in the new testament). So the question which would need to be asked of the Christian is, when presenting these particular verses, do they cover their hair while praying (since I am assuming, unless they are a minister, they are not preaching). That may be one reason, Hayat, why your Catholic teacher didn't feel the need to cover her head every day. But you can walk into plenty of churches in the world today (though not nearly as many as, say, 40 years ago) and see the women with hats or lace doilies or other such decoration, covering their hair during church. The funny thing is, many of them don't even know why they are doing it -- it has just always been done "this way". And yet another thing to consider is, not all Christians take the bible at face value. But that is another topic for another day ... With Peace, Dawn |
| 09/04/03 at 06:15:58 |
| Dawn |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| hayat |
| 09/04/03 at 07:48:04 |
| salam @dawn gruessli ;D ;) thx for the infos. interesting to klnow that, so , there is indeed a duty to cover the head in church / during prayers according to the NEW testament. okey then, thats a different thing. but still, when you say that nowadays you see really quite some peaople in church covering their heads? thats not my experience i have to say, okey i am of course not that often in a church ;), but still, if so, then i didnt many women covering their heads. just some of the older women, who grew up yo could say in another society. ma'assalama hayat |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| Chris |
| 09/04/03 at 17:33:02 |
| But there is a danger in confiming as well. If I take drugs because of Peer Presure, thats wrong, but if a girl wears a scarf because all the other girls wear them and her parents want her to wear them, is that not equally bad? If they don't know WHY - and agree with the reasoning of their own free will - is there any point? Chris/Adam |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| hayat |
| 09/05/03 at 03:56:16 |
| [slm] i agree with you adam/chris. there is really no real point when a girl wears the scarf just because either her friends do it and she would fell to be an outsider when being in mosque, groups etc or because her parents expect it from her and see it as natural that she wears it without any hesitation. but see, thats the thing one hast o learn either by herself or through youth groups where people meet, dicuss about islam and teach what is why and like that in islam. so one of the most important aims in islam comes here: to seek towards gaining knowledge. ws hayat |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| shieldsoffaith |
| 09/05/03 at 22:19:36 |
| [slm] If one reads to verse 15 in Corinthians it reads that a woman's covering is her hair. And when I brought these verses up to my Chrisitan family they tell me a woman should have long hair to read all the verses. I attended the holiness faith when I was Christian and all the women had very very long hair. So those Christians who have long hair consider themselves more religious. Anyway, the truth still stands, no matter what my family says, the Bible does mention women covering the head. [color=green]One argument I use with my family about eating pork is this: Out of all the three major religions, Jewish, Christian, And Muslim, the only one faith that dares to defy that is Christians.[/green] They are kind of quiet when I mention that. However, I am still trying to find a really intelligent answer to women having long hair. [wlm] |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| Dawn |
| 09/06/03 at 07:25:00 |
| [slm] Grüetzi, Hayat! Wi gaat’s? ;) Yep, you're right about not seeing covered heads, at least in Germany, or here in Switzerland either, except among the older generations. However, if you go to many Orthodox churches around the world (Greek or Russian etc.), you will see women with various forms of hats/scarves. You can also see plenty of hats in the US in certain protestant churches, especially in the South, but again, far fewer than 40 years ago. I think the whole head covering requirement was removed for Catholics by Vatican II back in the 60's, but I couldn't be sure that this is the case. (Any former or current Catholics that can help here?) Shieldsoffaith, though not really familiar with the holiness churches, I did once attend such a church with a friend of mine, years ago in college. But not only did the women have long (really long!!!!!!) hair, they also wore scarves or bun caps during the service, as a hair covering. This might not perhaps be universal among that tradition, though, as I am not really familiar with it. But I did not realize that there were churches that thought that hair satisfied the head covering requirement. (Hmm, you learn something new every day! :) Is this something unique to holiness churches, or are there other denominations that you know of which hold the same view?) More often than not, in my experience anyway, those verses are passed off as culturally influenced and therefore no longer relevant. Anyway, as to the long hair thing, I think it may be a translation issue. What version of the bible does your family/church use? It may make a difference in what they are concluding. Let me get back to you on this one. With Peace, Dawn |
| 09/06/03 at 07:27:48 |
| Dawn |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| Kathy |
| 09/07/03 at 18:32:48 |
| [slm] I have nothing to back this up.. so take it for face value only... I was giving a speech at a Roman Catholic Church. After, I was asking the priest some questions. One was why did the woman stop covering? He said a Catholic scholar from the vatican read a Christian 'fatwa" that said women did not have to cover. The news spread like fire [i]no pun intended[/i], it was the liberating 60's and the woman tore off their hats and came to church the nest Sunday uncovered. Unfortunately, the next week they found he had translated something wrong...but it was the sixties and they could not get the woman to put them back on. |
| Re: Words of Wisdom To Non-Hijabis |
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| Chris |
| 09/07/03 at 18:48:54 |
| If we're trading funny stories, here's one with a real sting. There are documemnted cases of covered women removing their veils when the islamic (if such a term can be applied to barbarians) authorities collasped. How funny, anyone would think they they were not happy with their status. The headscarves tended to stay on. Adam/Chris |
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