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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Abusive before Marriage? |
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| Anonymous |
| 09/10/03 at 01:32:12 |
| I'm not a regular user of this site, but i remember from i used to be a few years ago, everyone seemed to be very helpful. Insha Allah, someone will give me good advice. Does anyone have something sensible to say about marrying a man of whom you know is abusive towards his family and you know it will not be any different with you due to experience. There are many good sides to this man besides being abusive(verbally with tendencies of physically). It hurts my heart deeply because i would very much like to get married to him but i'm also afraid. At first both our families loved to see us get married to eachother, but now my family as well as his have adviced me not to. To make matters worse, it's not possible to work out the problems since i can't talk to him anymore, there is no reasoning with him. I make lots of du'a to Allah because my heart is simply set on this man. I feel i lack the right words to say to make things better, i don't know what else to do then to make du'a. I know everything is up to Allah, and i have to accept whatever happens, but maybe there is someone who reads this and have gone through the same thing and has something helpful to say about this? May Allah bless all of you. |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| WhiteSomali |
| 09/10/03 at 01:41:21 |
| [slm] I don't think it's really a great idea to enter an abusive relationship, for kinda obvious reasons. Of course, I reccomend you pray Istikhara. Allahu Alim. I know from personal experience it can be hard to give up someone you love or the future you envisioned for yourself, but sometimes it has to be done. Personally, I'm lucky, and I can put my emotions aside quite easily when I need to; you should try to do the same when you're making a decision like this. Emotions can really get in the way sometimes. [slm] |
| 09/10/03 at 01:44:35 |
| WhiteSomali |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| SisNur |
| 09/10/03 at 04:02:51 |
| [slm] Sis Anon I agree with Bro. WhiteSomali. It is just not worth to enter into such relationship. A relative of mine had gone thru this exact phase. They eventually got married (my relative thought that she might be able to change him), but, Allah knows best. His abusiveness got worst & they got divorced after only 3 months... Please continue with your dua and may Allah makes it easier for you. Insya'Allah. You will be in my dua too ... Nur :-) |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| Nomi |
| 09/10/03 at 05:07:28 |
| [slm] There is a gr8 scholar who teaches at an islamic uni near my place, once a man came to him for a piece of advice for his daughter (who was going to get married) and said that the prospect (would be husband) offers 5 prayers daily etc... the scholar asked "how is he in akhlaqeyaat? (dealing with others)". This man again said, "he offers 5 prayers daily " but the scholar repeated his question... "how is he in akhlaqeyaat? (dealing with others)"" I've seen it happen around me, i would also suggest you not to go for this guy. [slm] A brother in islaam. |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| UmmWafi |
| 09/10/03 at 05:23:15 |
| [slm] Eeep my 3rd post of the day..... Anyway, dear sister, I think you need to realise something. You cannot enter a marriage with the hope of changing someone. Firstly because as much as we can be a good influence to someone, that person himself must want to change and make the effort to change. We cannot force change. Only Allah has the Qudrah and the Amr. Secondly, when we enter into marriage, we must want to marry that person, for the person that he is. We cannot enter a marriage by saying "I want to marry him..but..so and so..ah well..I should marry him because things might be different". Thirdly, change requires time. Someone don't just change overnight just cos he is married. From my past experience dealing with abusive clients, it usually stems from something inside. He has to resolve that not you. Lastly, make lotsa du'ah that Allah SWT will Bless you with what is good for you. Best wishes. Wassalam. |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| knowledge_seeker |
| 09/10/03 at 05:42:10 |
| [slm] If this man is abusive, how will he treat the children you will have? I think for the sake of yourself and your future children it will be unwise to marry this brother and also because your parents don't want you to. May Allah grant you a wonderful pious husband who will be a companion in this world and the hereafter. Ameen. I know that it is difficult to get over these things sis, but with time you will ralise it is the right decision inshaAllah. Walaykum Asalam |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| faisalsb |
| 09/10/03 at 07:55:25 |
| [slm] Well while agreeing with all the sisters and brothers, I think first of all you should ask this question to yourself would you be able to sustain that insult and if yes then how long? If answer of first and second question is YES and FOREVER respectively then you can think about marrying him and still what about your kids if they would be able to do the same? May Allah help you to make the right decision ..... Ameen |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| Kathy |
| 09/10/03 at 08:15:01 |
| [slm] Do you know any wives and children of abusive Muslim men? These type of men eat away at your soul and your deen. I have come across too many women who have said to their husbands... that they are Muslim inspite of them. I have seen the children who do not want to be anything like their father..who is a Muslim...and Islam is an aspect that the kids identify most readily with, because this kind of man uses a warped version of Islam to berate his family. You have already entered the world of Battered Women. In your post I see that you have already begun to succumb to the Syndrome. You love him, you want him, you have put your dreams and hopes into a man who is known to beat and berate. >:( The pressures of marriage can bring the kindest man to blow.... an abusive man will be a boiling kettle of rotten putrid oil... ready at all times to burn and scald. You need help. You need to step back and not play the martyer, who will love and change this man... if you want to, think again.. because you are picking a horrible man to father and raise your children. Because I see the syndrome starting in you... start looking for a father for your children, not a man for you. One simple question i ask the women who are considering a particular man for marriage: You are a manager at a daycare center. Would you hire this man to watch the children? :o |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| sofia |
| 09/10/03 at 11:49:51 |
| [slm] At first glance, I was going to ask if you had done istikhaarah. But after reading your post, no offense, but are you mad? Even his own family is advising you not to marry him. Kathy's right, there are major signs being exhibited here. Red flags everywhere. [quote]my heart is simply set on this man.[/quote] This is not helping. While no one's perfect, a man should be married for 2 main things: his fear of Allah [i]and[/i] his character. This person would be like the ameer of your family. Even he’s a “good” guy, prays, is active at the masjid, I wouldn't marry him if I thought for one second he could be abusive. Why would I do that to myself, my future children, etc? It makes no sense. As everyone else has already advised: stay away. No point in being subtle. You already knew the answer to your question, so maybe there's something else there that's allowing you to consider him. Leave it, whatever it is, it can't be good. |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| Trustworthy |
| 09/10/03 at 13:26:38 |
| [slm]... Ya Rubb. Ya Ukhti...why? Here's some more advice. There is a hadith for men to look for in future wives and that is 1. Wealth 2. Beauty 3. Family 4. Religion. If the man can only find one thing out of the 4 then it's ok. If he found all 4, then he's lucky. (Last sentence is a joke, but very true since it is rare). Now here's the hadith for women looking for future husbands as Sr. Sofia has advised on. You look for 1. Religion 2. Character Now for the women here, she needs to find a man or look at a man for both qualities. Not one without the other. Some Sheikhs are great in religion, but very abusive verbally. physically, etc. A Muslimah should not even marry them. He may have character, the most kindest, generous, etc man that ever lived, but without religion, he's nothing. So from this hadith, you shouldn't marry him until he learns to control his anger. My cousin married an abusive man and let's just say she survived a suicide attempt (knowing it's haram). She survived b/c my mother was able to rescusitate her. Now that made her husband realize his horrible character and Al-hamdulillah, he changed. They're still married and he's no longer abusive, BUT what if she succeeded in her suicide? I'll make du'a that you will never have to go through that. Ukhti....think about it and ask Allah (SWT) for guidance. Ma-asalaama..... |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| Caraj |
| 09/10/03 at 15:08:27 |
| My Dearest Sister Anon, I beg of you to read this and take it seriously and to heart. HEED MY WARNING, it comes with experience that came at a price. A price I still pay and now so does my beautiful and wonderful daughter-in-law :'( I married the first time at 15. (I am 41 now) He got very angry and jumped up on top of me sitting on my stomach with his fist drawn back to punch me in the face cause I was scared of a severe thunderstorm and was begging for him to close the window. As a child growing up I was always taught to close windows and unplug appliances during bad lightening storms. The head of our bed was against the open window. I cried in fear and begged him to close it, he did not want to cause it was hot. Another time I was slammed up against a wall cause I forgot to make his ice tea and I had drank it that day and there was none left for him when he got home. It was hot, I had been busy and meant to make more before he got home. I was 5 months pregnet at that time. I remember I was driving and getting smacked in the face, I can't remember why, it was 20 years ago. I can tell you more, but hopefully you get the point and besides it would be to graphic to put in a public post. If he has an anger and abuse problem, it is NOT YOUR JOB to help him. YOU CAN NOT change him. Muslim or not. If he does not see he has a problem and does not seek help to fix it, marrying him will not stop it. Remorse and promises are also a farce, they are bandades that cover up till the next time. I would bet money it will only get worse. Also most likely you are only seeing or hearing the candy coated mild parts (I can bet you, that you are not hearing the whole story)and you will get to see the 100% wrath if you marry him. And in the meantime you will lose every ounce of self worth you have as those types (abusive men) have a wonderful way of helping you believe and convincing you it is all your fault. If only you had not this or if only you had not that. Finally.......How a man treats his family IS how you'll be treated and in most causes even worse. I can almost guarentee you this. And if even his family is warning you, does that not tell you ANYTHING?? WAKE UP before a slap or punch or kick wakes you up. Maybe I sound harsh, I divorced him over 18 years ago and my 24 year old son acts like him, verbally and emtionally abuses his wife and clenches his teeth when angry just like his dad did. My older son says 'Dang mom, how weird, he does that just like dad.' SO my son learned and remembered this from age 4 and under. Do you want any future children to go through this? GEEEEEEEEESH RUN.........RUN FAST.........DON'T LOOK BACK. Please It took me many years later to feel good about myself, it took a lot of healing to pick a good man after that. IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO FIX HIM I shiver when I read what you wrote about making dua and whatever happens happens, I pray you don't mean you'll marry him and whatever happens, happens. Stay safe, stay cautious and wait for an emotionally healthy man who treats his family with love and great respect. |
| 09/10/03 at 15:21:04 |
| Caraj |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| tryn2surrender |
| 09/10/03 at 18:16:40 |
| [slm] sister, I'm sorry for being really frank, but I don't think the main issue here is whether or not you should marry this abbusive man....the real question is, why don't you love yourself? It seems that your selfworth and self value is really low if you are actually thinking about marrying this guy. I'm sure you are a good, decent, loving person, who will find a man of quality, which deserves your goodness to marry. There are so many muslim men out there, different shades, backgrounds, proffessions and who have good character as well...why would you SETTLE for someone whom you wouldn't want your own daughter to marry. Tell me, if I was the one who posted your question and in the same situation, would YOU advise me to marry him? Love for your sister what you would love for yourself...or in this case....love for yourself what you would love for your sister. Please think about this. Forgive me if I offended you, i only mean to help. :-* [wlm], tryn2surrender |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| ltcorpest2 |
| 09/10/03 at 21:13:23 |
| i agree with everyone run away. not only how he will treat the children but how he will treat you in front of the children and perpetuate abusiveness for other generations |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| paula |
| 09/11/03 at 04:05:13 |
| [slm][size=2][font=Verdana][color=Navy] I'm one to say only Allah(swt) knows best. & yet for many reasons I too would encourage not to marry him. I am a firm believer that people can change, but we never may know when or if that may happen, that is only by Allah(swt)'s hand. Taking this man as a husband & possible future father, with prayers to Allah(swt) that he may change his ways is a very risky proposition. Trying to endure abuse is even riskier... Allahu Alam. I agree with the sentiments as well, that abuse wears at the deen very hard. Verbal abuse as well as physical abuse. This is always compounded when we speak of abuse from family, whether parents or especially a spouse. When someone goes out of control they are not in control of themselves & their behavior at that moment. That is a very dangerous & a very scary thing. There is no reasoning with madness, no words to calm the beast so to speak.Honestly, people with rage can get mad even at people who do nothing & are silent. Our only protection comes from Allah(swt). How may we be protected by him when we agree to a situation that we became aware of in our evaluation process. I would compare it to saying. I agree to this man by Allah(swt) & I agree to his anger (because of the knowledge of it upfront). I would believe it is a dear blessing Allah(swt) made it apparent to you before a more critical stage. Yet, I'm hearing you say your heart is yearning. I pray Allah(swt) may give you answers for that.One thing I do believe, when we have a yearning for something that according to Allah(swt)would not be right & we stand firm for his sake. He knows it, & we learn from it, we are supported by making it through those difficult times. But how those may transpire only Allah(swt) himself knows. I too would say the division that is placed must be a hand of Allah as well. We are weak as humans, & often words are cheap & superficial. Once abuse has shown itself it may be years before one can say the tendency is conquered. You know what I believe wholeheartedly, good people are inclined to forgive easily & believe the best. I would suppose you are a very good person & so you are inclined to believe the best. One that has experienced disease of sins (which is what abuse is) may take a lot to overcome that behavior even if intensions are well meaning. That's just reality. That becomes scary when the effects of their sins may endanger or hurt the welfare of others. This is not all-inclusive by any means....& completely humanistic at that… but my two cents as well. Surely Allah(swt) himself knows best. Perhaps it might give your heart ease to follow up on more Islamic text & study (a class maybe pertaining to this subject). I would suggest this for two reasons. Comfort of the heart through this trial & knowledge that will help for success in the future... Insha Allah. I Pray the best for you 'Anon'.... May Allah(swt) hold you ever so close.... Ameen. [/color][/font][/size] [wlm] |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| Caraj |
| 09/11/03 at 13:15:40 |
| Anon, I know I was a bit harsh in my above post but it is fact. It was also a long time ago and it is over and done and althought I have healed, became emotionally healthy (think better of myself as not to allow such a man in my life) it still effects me in ways. I would like to share a little bit more with you as it is on my heart to do so. tryn2surrender really hit it on the nose I believe. And sometimes us woman we are the peace makers and fixer uppers and we think we can fix, help, change, etc another. More info about abuse from my own exerience: The abuser usually has a way of blaming others, curcumstances and even the partner for their lack of control. If you do talk to him later I bet he blames everyone else for his behavior and says no one understands. Maybe, maybe not. The abuser usually asks forgiveness and vows never to do it again. But usually always does. Outside of the situation I can almost guarentee you are not even seeing the whole picture. Remember the tip of the iceburg is usually the 'tip' and the biggest part is below the water where you cannot see. Disrespect, yelling and name calling most likely will lead to a smack which of course you will of deserved cause if you had not said something or had did something right (or the way he sees right) then he would not of done it. Children learn at a VERY VERY young age, My youngest was 3 or 4 when we divorce yet his older brother remember what dad was like and sees it in his younger brother. Today........20 years later.....I still feel defensive even though I have a wonderful and very kind husband. I worry about stupid stuff if he will get mad........My husband never gets mad. I do not exaggerate, he doesn't at me. In that situation let me tell you it is like hell on earth, I was a basket case, I would cherish him going to work and dread him coming home. I would surry like a whipped mouse to make sure everything was just right, not out of love but out of fear. I would always wonder what kind of mood he would come home in. I searched his facial expressions and body language in 2 seconds flat after he walked through the door to see what I had to deal with. I could not trust our infant son with him. Anyway there had been a rape in the neighborhood and a neighbor was fearful alone with her infant son at night till 10 pm while her husband was at work. I went over (with hubby's permission) to keep her company. Our son was asleep and I left him with hubby. All of a sudden I get a call at this lady's house from my husband mad, irritated and angry saying the baby woke up and he would not stop crying. When I ran home (2 doors down) I found red finger marks on the back of my baby's neck where he had one hand under his neck and head and the other hand under his lower half like one holds a baby, but appearently he was so fustrated he squeezed his hand under the head and neck to leave red marks on this infants neck :o >:( Ok I am done sharing stuff, I don't like to but it was put in my heart to do so. It was a long long time ago and even though it is personal maybe my experience will help someone see the little red flags popping up. If his family is warning you, is that not enough and look at how blessed you are to have concerned parents !!!! Have you not read the posts on this board of the many women with parents wanting their daughters to marry for status, green cards, just because and have you read from sisters about how a parent knew the man womanized, drank and was not a practicing Muslim but they still wanted her to marry him anyway? The sister who asked our advice about an abusive spouse??? |
| 09/11/03 at 13:33:37 |
| Caraj |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| Anonymous |
| 09/11/03 at 14:16:12 |
| Salam Alaikum, Our parents are always so picky about choosing the RIGHT husband for us. Somebody who respects us, saves us from the big bad world outside, loves us, and also provides for us by working hard. And how do you think a person you know is abusive will succeed in any of these departments? He *might* change, but who can guarantee this change? and is it worth jumping in the well with the hope of getting out of it alive?:( I might, and just MIGHT be able to understand where you are coming from. For the longest time, I was involved with a person who was extremely hot-tempered and abusive. No matter how much he hit me, just one apology from him, and I would melt completely. It was absolutely impossible contemplating a life without him. But the final straw was when I literally got mauled by him in front of my friends, because I took some extra time to get into the car. Humiliation, disgrace, fury, etc etc..do not even begin to describe what followed. I finally mustered up the courage, called it the quits, moved out of the country, and decided I just had to restore my pride and self-respect. It was very very hard to completely wipe out the memory of this person, because like you, even I felt that he was the man for me. But Alhumdullilah, there IS the proverbial, light at the end of the tunnel, and I carry on my life with a hope of finding a better soulmate for myself inshahAllah. Like everyone else advised, love yourself sister. You are special, a loving person, very beautiful from the inside and outside. You deserve someone equally spectacular inshahAllah. Give a man who is more worth it a chance. And may Allah (SWT) guide you to the best of decisions. and please forgive me if I managed to offend you. JazakAllah Khayr. |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| jannah |
| 09/12/03 at 01:44:32 |
| [quote]At first both our families loved to see us get married to eachother, but now my family as well as his have adviced me not to. To make matters worse, it's not possible to work out the problems since i can't talk to him anymore, there is no reasoning with him. I make lots of du'a to Allah because my heart is simply set on this man. [/quote] [slm], Sister everything is written so don't worry if things don't work out inshaAllah. You probably only see one side of him, the nice good side, but the families get to see all the other one's of his character that he doesn't show you (right now). So please heed the advice of the sisters and brothers inshaAllah. |
| Re: Abusive before Marriage? |
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| Anonymous |
| 10/14/03 at 02:58:30 |
| A while ago i posted here for advice about what to do when you know someone is abusive and you still consider marriage with this person. I want to thank everyone that responded and gave me advice. I've done a lot of thinking on this subject, i would almost say every waking moment of the day for the past weeks. This is a situation that has been going on for a long time. Sister Kathy figured me out really well. I read a lot on this subject and realise now it is not up to me to change the situation. This is something that hurts me a lot but at the same time i know it's from Allah and therefore it is good with me. I pray i will be strong enough not to fall back into it, it's a matter of the heart and a woman's heart can be weak when it comes to these things. I will be ever more so thankful should i be granted a loving husband. Your advice has helped me a lot, more than any of you realise, i'm sure. To sister Azizah, i want to say that i'm happy that you're not in my situation anymore, Alhamdulillah. Ramadan is coming up, i hope it will be a blessed one for everyone and may your fasting be accepted by Allah(Subhana wa Ta'ala) and may Paradise be the final destination of all of you. Amien. |
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