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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Sharia & Hudud Laws |
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| ampbreia |
| 09/12/03 at 13:09:37 |
| I have a question I hope Muslim women here will answer: What is the up side of Sharia law for women? What are the benefits to women? [i]IS[/i] there an upside? Any real attraction to it that is factual in practice within Islamic nations? I am a non-Muslim woman with considerable knowledge of Sharia & Hudud in practice just wondering why any woman finds it acceptable. This is honest curiousity. |
| 09/12/03 at 13:11:36 |
| ampbreia |
| Re: Sharia & Hudud Laws |
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| jannah |
| 09/12/03 at 14:56:22 |
| Hi ampbreia, Welcome to the board... Hudud (penal code) are a very small part of Islamic law as a whole. It really can't be looked at in a vacuum without considering the whole of Islamic society and it's practice. And it really can't be looked at through the eye of Western values and principles. That being said, there is much in Islamic law that protects a woman's right. For example, no one can accuse her of adultery without having FOUR witnesses who have seen the act!! A woman can initiate a divorce through the courts. She has automatic custody of her young children and so on... But what exactly do you find objectionable? btw for those interested this is a nice essay on the subject of hudud: http://jannah.org/morearticles/4.html Traditionally it is said that the Shari'ah is divided into five main branches-I'tiqadat (beliefs), 'ibadah (ritual worship), adaab (morals and manners), mu'amalat (transactions and contracts) and 'uqubat (punishments). The Shari'ah protects and defends life, property, honour, religion and intellect. Hence the penal system is absolutely vital in guaranteeing these fundamental 'human rights, as it is "the defence system in any society" which "upholds the values and preserves the institutions of that society" otherwise "the entire fabric of society will crumble" as "it is on the proper and most effective administration of law that a society is moulded into what it should be". Therefore the Islamic penal system is just one of many branches of Shari'ah and it will be unfair for a critic, as it is done in the rubric of this essay, to single out some aspects of its penal policy in isolation to judge the merit or de-merit of the Islamic law without looking at the "context of its total scheme - its conceptual basis, primary objectives and goals and overall framework". The concepts of crime and punishment in the Shari'ah were tailor made "to bring about the kind of society and moral order that the religion of Islam foresaw". In fact there are arguments to suggest that Islamic punishments are only applicable and enforceable in a just and proper Islamic state where the socio-economic and political systems are fully operating according to Shari'ah. There is a saying that "you can bend the necks but you can't change the hearts"- so punishment alone cannot ensure compliance with the law or solve the problem of crime. In an Islamic state, punishment follows a long series of prohibitory and reformatory steps where all efforts are made to engender attitudes of contempt for crime and eliminate all the root 'causes' of crime and to create a healthy crime-free environment. Even then punishment is not meted out for all breaches of the Shari'ah but only certain specifically defined crimes with strict conditions "because of their bearing upon...the establishment of peace and order". ..... |
| 09/12/03 at 14:58:40 |
| jannah |
| Re: Sharia & Hudud Laws |
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| se7en |
| 09/12/03 at 18:24:46 |
| salaam / peace it seems quite clear that in your eyes there *is* no upside to the shari'ah for women. can you elaborate on why you feel this way? why do you find it unattractive? |
| 09/12/03 at 18:25:41 |
| se7en |
| Re: Sharia & Hudud Laws |
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| ampbreia |
| 09/12/03 at 21:05:50 |
| Greetings dear Jannah & Se7en and thank you for attempting to answer me. I appreciate the effort. However I suspect that neither of you have actually ever had to live under Sharia law before. Am I right? I lived for about a year under Sharia law in Iran and didn't like it much. For one thing, there are what are called "morals police," which are very severe women in black marnets and chadurs that ride around on pickup trucks looking for women that are wearing their hijab in some way incorrectly. When they find one, the scold and beat her with batons. I even saw a woman arrested for the dual "cause" of having a lock of hair slip out from under her silk scarf and for have a romance novel in her purse. For another thing, no woman is allowed to leave her house, much less go anywhere with her children, without her husband or an approved escort and his written permission. She gets arrested if she does. I'm not sure if the above two items are Sharia or not; just that all of the other women I know who have lived in and gotten out of Iran and other Islamic countries have all complained of the same. Before I went to live in Iran, I believed what my Iranian husband told me when he said that hijab was not mandatory and that women had no more restrictions on them than men do. This was not true. Women have to wear hijab, men don't. Men require no ones permission to go anywhere. Women - no matter how old they are - always have a male guardian they have to ask permission of. I found that very galling. About divorce and child custody, a Muslim woman can certainly sue her husband for divorce and she can also gain custody of her children... but only if she happens to be living in a non-Muslim country. In Islamic nations, she requires her husband's permission to divorce him and many husbands, for some reason (pride or possessiveness perhaps?) won't grant that. Yet all he has to do in order to divorce her is say "I divorce you" about her before witnesses 3 times in a row and she doesn't have to be one of the witnesses. Nor can a Muslim woman in an Islamic nation usually get custody of the children. The reason is that various Islamic sources (the Koran among them) says that fathers are are the custodians of their families and must be sure they are raised as proper Muslims. Therefore, the mother has almost NO chance of getting custody of the children in a divorce. My baby was likewise stolen from me when he was 10 months old. I wasn't even allowed contact with him. All of the women I know that bore children to Muslim husbands and were later divorced lost their children. The thing about Hudud law that really bugs me though... That thing you said about the woman having to be accused by 4 witnesses in order to be proven guilty of adultry is quite true, but there is another side to it. If a woman is raped, she requires 4 male witnesses to prove her case - and who is she going to get? Her rapists? or the men who stood by and did nothing when she was being attacked... assuming there was an audience? If she cannot get witnesses, as most cannot, she will be given 100 stripes in a public square for making a "false" accusation. If however the rape she couldn't prove results in a pregnancy, she will be allowed to bear the child (in prison) which will be handed over to a foster family while she is taken out and stoned to death for "adultery." If she can get the witnesses, she can win her case, however her family is likely to kill her for damaging their family "honor" via the "crime" of being raped. This is far too often the outcome. I supose that last is the most disturbing thing I find about Huddud. Also, I really question killing someone just for having sex out of wedlock for any reason. I mean, they're not actually hurting other people. Many so-called "adultresses" are not only not married, but didn't chose the sex either. It was rape. As for those that are married, perhaps you don't realize this, but women in Islamic nations are seldom allowed to choose their own mate and, in accordance, are not in the least bit romatically inclined toward husbands that were chosen for them against their will that they didn't even know before the actual wedding day. It seems to me it is human nature to want romance in ones life and a woman shouldn't be killed for it. And stoning is an extremely cruel death. I'll spare you the details. The above item is why Muslimahs in Idonesia were objecting so strenuously to Hudud being imposed on them there. I don't blame them! All the while the men were saying what a "healthy" society it would make for them. Well not for the women I'll warrant! A Muslim man on the other hand, even if his wife (or wives) is chosen for him, has plenty of romantic outlets. In addition to his wife or wives, he is allowed to take unlimited concubines, isn't legally required to take care of them, and is only guilty of adultery if he is stupid enough to have an affair with an already-married-to-someone-else woman. Then there's that thing in the Koran about men being allowed to beat their wives. Under Sharia law, you see, a man beating his wife is not considered an assault or crime of any kind just because the Koran says that. But a woman who beats a man is likely to imprisoned or even killed for it. She can be killed even for simply talking back. It all seems unusually cruel and unfair to me. I take it you two have experienced or know nothing of those things? I'm very curious where you two are coming from on this topic and I hope I haven't disturbed you too much with my rant. |
| 09/12/03 at 21:19:56 |
| ampbreia |
| Re: Sharia & Hudud Laws |
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| eleanor |
| 09/13/03 at 07:05:39 |
| [quote author=ampbreia link=board=lighthouse;num=1063382978;start=0#3 date=09/12/03 at 21:05:50]I take it you two have experienced or know nothing of those things? I'm very curious where you two are coming from on this topic and I hope I haven't disturbed you too much with my rant.[/quote] hello ampbreia, You probably won't get better answers from anyone on the board than jannah and se7en and I doubt this is the first time that they have read a post such as yours. Not being so knowledgeable myself I cannot go into the details of Sharia or Hudud, but I will say one thing. Most Muslims are in agreement that there is no such thing as a proper Islamic country in the world today. All have shortcomings - generally are over zealous in one area (ie hijab) while overlooking far greater crimes/sins such as rape etc. You cannot judge Islam based on your experiences of living in a so called Islamic country at the hands of so called Muslims. Your baby certainly shouldn't have been stolen from you - all Muslim children have the right to live with their mother at least until 7 years old. (the age when praying becomes obligatory on them). That is just one example of where you were treated unfairly. It is indeed a sad situation when Muslim women only get their rights granted to them in a country which is not ruled by Muslims. Same thing about forced marriages. This is Islamically incorrect. The woman has the right to say no to a potential spouse. But again this is not implemented in many cases. Wait for some more answers to your post. I am very glad that you have joined here and if you stick around and read the posts on the whole board, you may soon learn some of the true and beautiful things about Islam. It must be a bit puzzling to you, why would any western woman, who has all her rights ever choose Islam as her religion? Insha Allah you will find out soon :) take care |
| Re: Sharia & Hudud Laws |
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| jannah |
| 09/15/03 at 03:34:28 |
| Ok, I'll try to respond to some of your questions and hopefully give a Muslim woman's perspective (being one myself)... [quote author=ampbreia link=board=lighthouse;num=1063382978;start=0#3 date=09/12/03 at 21:05:50]Greetings dear Jannah & Se7en and thank you for attempting to answer me. I appreciate the effort. However I suspect that neither of you have actually ever had to live under Sharia law before. Am I right? [/quote] We both live in the U.S. Other sisters on the board are from Germany, England, Canada, Kenya, Australia, India, Saudi Arabia, and other places. (You can click on membermap and check it out ;)) However the point is that none of us live under Shariah law, not even those that live in so called "Muslim" countries, because all of those countries do not implement shariah. Their laws are a mix of some Islamic laws, alot of times civil law of western countries and some of their own cultural laws. [quote] I lived for about a year under Sharia law in Iran and didn't like it much. [/quote] I don't think you can say you lived under shariah law since it is not fully implemented and as I mentioned before the law they practice is actually quite a mix. But it is true you lived under the "law of Iran" while there. [quote]For one thing, there are what are called "morals police," which are very severe women in black marnets and chadurs that ride around on pickup trucks looking for women that are wearing their hijab in some way incorrectly. When they find one, the scold and beat her with batons. I even saw a woman arrested for the dual "cause" of having a lock of hair slip out from under her silk scarf and for have a romance novel in her purse. For another thing, no woman is allowed to leave her house, much less go anywhere with her children, without her husband or an approved escort and his written permission. She gets arrested if she does. [/quote] That's really messed up. Both things are totally against the ethics and practice of Islam. [quote]I'm not sure if the above two items are Sharia or not; just that all of the other women I know who have lived in and gotten out of Iran and other Islamic countries have all complained of the same. [/quote] They're not ... it's true unfortunately alot of "Islamic countries" or more accurately "Muslim majority countries" have alot of messed up things going on due to many factors -- people not following Islam, the general corruption, poverty, socio-economic factors, culture, etc etc [quote] Before I went to live in Iran, I believed what my Iranian husband told me when he said that hijab was not mandatory and that women had no more restrictions on them than men do. [/quote] Hijab is obligatory for Muslim women, whether a country has it as a law or not differs across the Muslim world. As I said... restrictions are really dependent on the country.... and that country's laws might or might not be according to Islamic precepts. [quote] This was not true. Women have to wear hijab, men don't. Men require no ones permission to go anywhere. Women - no matter how old they are - always have a male guardian they have to ask permission of. I found that very galling. [/quote] It's true in Islam women do have to wear hijab and men don't. It's also true that men have to support the family and the women don't. It's all a system that works together. It's equitable in the end, even though the rights and duties may be different for women and men. I actually think women have it pretty good in alot of things :) They don't have to work and if they want to their money is theirs to do whatever they want with. For men, their money is the right of the family and not their own. They aren't allowed to cheat on us. They aren't allowed to beat us. They're told to treat us with kindness and honor. As for the mahram issue, that is pretty annoying, however many scholars of today say it is fine for women to travel less than 3 days without a mahram...and if it's more than that (i'm trying to think of a travel that takes more than 3 days nowadays??) to have someone there to help and protect her is a pretty good thing in my opinion. [quote] About divorce and child custody, a Muslim woman can certainly sue her husband for divorce and she can also gain custody of her children... but only if she happens to be living in a non-Muslim country. In Islamic nations, she requires her husband's permission to divorce him and many husbands, for some reason (pride or possessiveness perhaps?) won't grant that. Yet all he has to do in order to divorce her is say "I divorce you" about her before witnesses 3 times in a row and she doesn't have to be one of the witnesses. [/quote] This is not true for all Muslim-majority countries, many do allow women to get divorced and even Islamically a woman is allowed to initiate divorce proceedings and sue for divorce... the only thing is some countries are so messed up they don't even have Islamic courts so don't give women their rights in this. The divorcing thee times in a row thing.. there's a difference of opinion on that, but yes some allow it. [quote] Nor can a Muslim woman in an Islamic nation usually get custody of the children. The reason is that various Islamic sources (the Koran among them) says that fathers are are the custodians of their families and must be sure they are raised as proper Muslims. Therefore, the mother has almost NO chance of getting custody of the children in a divorce. [/quote] Hmm that's quite a generalization. Again I don't think that's true in all Muslim-majority countries. Islamic law itself says that a woman automatically gets custody when the children are young and if there are reasons to keep the child beyond that (ie abuse, etc) the court makes the decision on that. [quote] My baby was likewise stolen from me when he was 10 months old. I wasn't even allowed contact with him. All of the women I know that bore children to Muslim husbands and were later divorced lost their children. [/quote] That is sad to hear that, it is a great injustice to take a child from it's mother without any reason. I know many women married to Muslim husbands that were divorced that kept their children. [quote] The thing about Hudud law that really bugs me though... That thing you said about the woman having to be accused by 4 witnesses in order to be proven guilty of adultry is quite true, but there is another side to it. If a woman is raped, she requires 4 male witnesses to prove her case - and who is she going to get? Her rapists? or the men who stood by and did nothing when she was being attacked... assuming there was an audience? If she cannot get witnesses, as most cannot, she will be given 100 stripes in a public square for making a "false" accusation. If however the rape she couldn't prove results in a pregnancy, she will be allowed to bear the child (in prison) which will be handed over to a foster family while she is taken out and stoned to death for "adultery." If she can get the witnesses, she can win her case, however her family is likely to kill her for damaging their family "honor" via the "crime" of being raped. This is far too often the outcome. [/quote] It's only the outcome in certain countries were the Islamic laws are biased and set up wrong. For example Pakistan's rape laws are right now undergoing a process of revision just because of this reason. As for your statement that if a "woman is raped, she requires 4 male witnesses to prove her case", I don't believe that's part of Islamic law. To prove a case of rape requires different proof and evidence and is different than proving a case of adultery. [quote] I supose that last is the most disturbing thing I find about Huddud. Also, I really question killing someone just for having sex out of wedlock for any reason. I mean, they're not actually hurting other people. [/quote] Having sex out of wedlock has a lesser punishment than adultery. As for not hurting other people, in the end it does hurt a lot of people -- the society, the messed up children, etc etc... but when it comes down to it we believe these are laws from God to protect society. [quote] Many so-called "adultresses" are not only not married, but didn't chose the sex either. It was rape. [/quote] Again rape is an entirely different case than adultery. [quote] As for those that are married, perhaps you don't realize this, but women in Islamic nations are seldom allowed to choose their own mate and, in accordance, are not in the least bit romatically inclined toward husbands that were chosen for them against their will that they didn't even know before the actual wedding day. [/quote] Yes I know that it is a cultural practice. However it is completely against Islamic teachings. [quote] It seems to me it is human nature to want romance in ones life and a woman shouldn't be killed for it. And stoning is an extremely cruel death. I'll spare you the details. [/quote] Again, each society determines what it considers a capital offense. In the US, it's multiple-murder, many people disagree with that too.. [quote] The above item is why Muslimahs in Idonesia were objecting so strenuously to Hudud being imposed on them there. [/quote] Not familiar with what Muslimahs and why they were objecting to Hudud. Maybe they were objecting to it not being enforced or the laws not written properly. [quote]I don't blame them! All the while the men were saying what a "healthy" society it would make for them. Well not for the women I'll warrant! [/quote] lol [quote] A Muslim man on the other hand, even if his wife (or wives) is chosen for him, has plenty of romantic outlets. In addition to his wife or wives, he is allowed to take unlimited concubines, isn't legally required to take care of them, and is only guilty of adultery if he is stupid enough to have an affair with an already-married-to-someone-else woman. [/quote] whoaaaaa concubines don't exist in these modern times. and when they were it was a requirement to take care of them and many other rights and duties dealt with that whole subject [quote] Then there's that thing in the Koran about men being allowed to beat their wives. Under Sharia law, you see, a man beating his wife is not considered an assault or crime of any kind just because the Koran says that. But a woman who beats a man is likely to imprisoned or even killed for it. [/quote] Uhhh NOWHERE does the Quran allow domestic abuse of women. Please read http://jannah.org/sisters/end.html [quote]She can be killed even for simply talking back.[/quote] um what are you talking about??? [quote] It all seems unusually cruel and unfair to me. I take it you two have experienced or know nothing of those things? I'm very curious where you two are coming from on this topic and I hope I haven't disturbed you too much with my rant.[/quote] Basically your "rant" as you put it is against alot of abuse of women that is occuring in the world (Iran) and especially in Muslim-majority countries. However you seem to be attributing this abuse to the Hudud (penal code) and/or the Shariah (Islamic law) and I think that is a pretty unobjective assessment. Because first of all.. Shariah and hudud in it's entirety is not practiced anywhere in the world. Many countries have their own messed up mix of shariah and culture and whatever else they want. Also, in many countries the oppression that takes place against women has nothing to do with Islam (except perhaps someone twisting it and using it as justification??) and most of the time the oppression and messed up things going on are actually AGAINST Islamic law, tenets and ethics.. and if Islamic law and practice was there in it's entirety these things wouldn't even exist... So I think the best thing we can conclude is that Muslim women need to be educated on their rights. Muslim men should be educated to know what women's rights are and that they can't be abused. And the rest of the non-Muslim world needs to learn what Islam is, what Islamic law is and the difference between that and cultural/dominating/law/ practice. Lastly, I think it needs to be said that if one studies the whole system of Islam as a social-economic-political system, all of Islamic law makes alot of sense. With study we can also appreciate it's principles of justice and balance with wisdom. There is alot that the "western world" can learn from it and has actually... For example the principle of being innocent before proven guilty is an Islamic law postulate and so on... Anyway I'm a Muslim woman and proud of it and would be quite happy to live under proper Islamic rule and law -- if it could ever be established since it doesn't right now. And many millions of Muslim women would have to agree. Sometimes I wonder how other woman can think that all 5.1 million of us are oppressed or just plain stupid! We're not :) We've studied Islam. We know it's good and right. Unfortunately it's not being practiced, and not being practiced correctly, but that doesn't detract from Islam's beauty and justice. There is also the point that after studying Islam as a whole, we believe Islam is from God. And that all these laws are just and equitable and have wisdom since they are from our Creator. With that said.. there are alot of resources on http://www.jannah.org/sisters if anyone's interested on the true stance of Islam towards women. |
| 09/15/03 at 03:50:07 |
| jannah |
| Re: Sharia & Hudud Laws |
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| sofia |
| 09/15/03 at 15:37:24 |
| Peace/ [slm] Excellent post, masha'Allah, Jannah. I can only reiterate the point that there needs to be careful study of a subject before it can be analyzed. We can't just be satisfied with surface knowledge about a topic that is of such depth. And I realize I'm kind of ranting against the media's obsession with Islaam and it's lack of true insight on it. It's a separate, but somewhat related frustration. Ampbreia, I'm sorry to hear about your experience. There are likely tons of other people who have experienced injustice in so-called Muslim countries. But I think sis Jannah gave a pretty good explanation of why that could be. Bottom line, thanks for the reminder that as Muslims, we need to represent true Islaam, and correct where there are wrongs. Anyhow, if you'd like to learn about it, there are tons of well-thought out articles/books on Islaamic shari'ah and its purpose. See here for some examples. http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/madina/YaBB.pl?board=archives;action=display;num=1048086585 And if you're somewhat familiar with Islaam, I'd also recommend the following books by M. Hashim Kamali: [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1903682002/qid=1063652743/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/104-9801259-3378329?v=glance&s=books]The Dignity of Man: An Islamic Perspective[/url] [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1903682010/qid=1063652743/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/104-9801259-3378329?v=glance&s=books]Freedom, Equality and Justice in Islam[/url] Anyhow, I was just thinking the other day that if I lived under true shari'ah, I'd have more rights than I do now living in a so-called western democracy. Not only me, but many others as well. The ones who would lose any rights are the exploiters who carry out injustices (ie, big corporations, environmental polluters, tyrant rulers, child/women abusers, animal-abusers, weapons-of-mass-destruction producers, etc. And some of them know it. I mean think about it, even non-Muslims would be paying much less in jizyah than they would with their current income/property/etc taxes). Not that western democracy is completely lacking, since it actually comes closer to Islaamic ideals than many Muslim countries currently, but it's certainly not as ideal as many claim it is. I have only considered living under shari'ah law since studying it, even just preliminarily. Never before that. The whole purpose of shari'ah is to uphold justice, truth and good action. It's kind of an ideal, but it's a reachable ideal, since there were early rulers over prosperous and diverse nations that correctly implemented shari'ah. That does not mean I'd want to live in any ole Muslim country since I'm not sure where shari'ah law is correctly implemented today. Allahu A'lim. May Allah help us see truth as truth and embrace it, and see falsehood as falsehood and stay far from it. One last comment, although there are few if any true Islaamic states (that implement shari'ah correctly), there are countless Muslims who try to implement Islaamic law within their homes, their daily life, etc. It profoundly affects our relationship with others, with God, etc. The better we understand and implement it as individuals, the easier it'd be for it to be correctly implemented at the state level. |
| 09/15/03 at 15:38:38 |
| sofia |
| Re: Sharia & Hudud Laws |
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| se7en |
| 09/15/03 at 17:00:03 |
| salaam / peace, First, I’d like to describe what the Shariah is, from my limited understanding, so we can then understand what the Shariah is *not*. There is no specific law book or text that is the Shariah. It is a word that refers to a set of legislative principles and guidelines derived from the Quran [the divine text revealed to the prophet Muhammad] and the Sunnah [his example as understood from the recordings of his words, admonitions, actions, tacit approval of things, etc.. as Muslims believe that his actions in daily life were also guided by the Divine]. When it comes to acts of worship, the Shariah remains constant over time and place and is not open to modification or change. When it comes to matters of interaction between people, however, there is room for interpretation, as long as the legislation is within the bounds of the general principles and goals of the Shariah. Adaptation is therefore permissible, as long as in so doing the legislation does not move out of line with the fundamental teachings and practices of Islam and the basic purposes [Maqasid] of the Law, namely: - protection of an individual's morality and religion - protection and maintenance of human life - protection of an individual's intellect - protection of an individual's progeny - protection of an individual's property rights The Shariah therefore has a structure, but is also flexible, as it is adaptive to the particular customs, rituals, and culture of a given region or time in which it is being applied, as well as the specific situation at hand. I have always been amazed at the ability of the Shariah to be successfully implemented in such a wide array of different communities and cultures for hundreds of years. From West Africa to Spain to the Far East, Shariah was the language of Law for many hundreds of years, and the works of intellectuals made it a living code of law that was fully functioning, just, and in accordance with its Divine purpose. Why then, has the word ‘Shariah’ today become synonymous with rigid, harsh law that is oppressive and cruel? I thnk it can be traced back to many reasons, one being the decaying of Muslim institutions of scholarship and study of jurisprudential law. To be properly implemented, the Shariah needs jurists who have a deeply rooted understanding of its basic principles and teachings, and also an understanding of the culture and society in which it is to be implemented. Unfortunately these things are rare to find in our time, and thus the Shariah is reduced to a distorted form of its penal code alone, forced upon people in defective courts of law, and in countries with governments deeply entrenched in corruption and incompetence. The Shariah is not therefore, the law of modern day Saudi Arabia or Nigeria. These and others are simply governments which claim to be legislating in *accordance to* the Shariah. I am going to address only a few portions of your post. I think with some more study on this topic, many of the concerns you have brought forth will be addressed and made clear. [quote] If a woman is raped, she requires 4 male witnesses to prove her case [/quote] This is an issue that is often times brought forward “against” the Shari’ah that stems from incorrect information. Four witnesses are *not* needed for a woman to bring forth an accusation of rape. This is false. Four witnesses are needed to impose the *death penalty* on the one accused of rape. If there are not four witnesses, this does *not* mean that the guilty person will be exempted from punishment, but that punitive measures will be determined by the court and jurist. Also, the need for four *male* witnesses is an issue of contention among scholars, that is not unanimously agreed upon. There are many scholars who say that female witnesses in this instance are equally valid. [quote]If she can get the witnesses, she can win her case, however her family is likely to kill her for damaging their family "honor" via the "crime" of being raped. This is far too often the outcome. [/quote] Honor killings have no place in the Shariah and are condemned, and the one who commits such an act is treated under Shariah law just as any other murderer. This is unfortunately a common, sick practice in some Muslim countries but stems from ignorance and misogyny and not Islam or its code of law. [quote]Also, I really question killing someone just for having sex out of wedlock for any reason. I mean, they're not actually hurting other people. [/quote] You can read more about this [url=http://host06.ipowerweb.com/~ymofmdc/books/mishumanrights/rights_misco.htm]here[/url]. [quote] Many so-called "adultresses" are not only not married, but didn't chose the sex either. It was rape. [/quote] Rape and adultery are two totally different things, and are treated as such under the Shariah law. You are not held accountable under the Shariah for something that was imposed upon you and that you were forced to do – the only exception to this being taking a life for your own life. (for example, if someone tells you ‘kill that person, or I’ll kill you’ – it is not permissible to go and kill that other person.) It is only the conscious, intentional actions of an adult individual of sound mind that are taken into account. [quote]As for those that are married, perhaps you don't realize this, but women in Islamic nations are seldom allowed to choose their own mate and, in accordance, are not in the least bit romatically inclined toward husbands that were chosen for them against their will that they didn't even know before the actual wedding day. It seems to me it is human nature to want romance in ones life and a woman shouldn't be killed for it.[/quote] Under the Shariah law it is clear that a woman’s consent is necessary for a marriage to be valid. Without her consent a marriage is null and void. This is another instance in which the culture of a given place overrides the legislation outlined in the Shariah. [quote]It all seems unusually cruel and unfair to me. [/quote] I think that if the Shariah was as you described it, I would agree with you. But there is more to it than what is often times described in the media today, or in the negative appraisals promoted by Orientalist intellectuals. I really urge you to learn more about the Shariah before making such a sweeping judgment about it. Dr. Ingrid Mattson is a professor of Islamic Law at Hartford Seminary. I urge you to read some of her publications, or you can even check out some interviews with her online at www.WindowonIslam.com. Also you can check out some interesting articles [url=http://www.wponline.org/vil/Articles/shariah/implementation_of_islamic_law.htm]here[/url] and [url=http://host06.ipowerweb.com/~ymofmdc/books/mishumanrights/rights.htm]here[/url]. I'll end with a quote from a well known religious scholar and jurist Ibn Qayyim,that I think sums up quite well what the Shariah is, and I think helps explain why I as a Muslim woman would love to live under its rule if properly implemented and enacted. [color=black]"The foundation of the Shariah is wisdom and the safeguarding of people's interests in this world and the next. In its entirety it is justice, mercy and wisdom. Every rule which transcends justice to tyranny, mercy to its opposite, the good to the evil, and wisdom to triviality does not belong to the Shariah." [/color] peace, se7en |
| 09/16/03 at 01:37:43 |
| se7en |
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