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| urgent: need & all about hadith |
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| timbuktu |
| 09/15/03 at 06:47:38 |
| [slm] i am having an argument with some ahl-e-Quran who rfeuse to accept Hadith or the scholars' interpretation, plus some agnostics who use the arguments of ahl-e-Quran. can some one give me arguments from the Quran in favor of Hadith, & the interpretation by the early scholars, on an urgent basis. thanks |
| Re: urgent: need & all about hadith |
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| salaampeaceshalom |
| 09/15/03 at 06:51:13 |
| [slm] only thing I can say for sure is that the Prophet (peace be upon him) told us to follow his way, the sunnah, and that is what ahadeeth tell us, about his way of life. I'm sorry I can't be of any more help than that. Unfortunately I'm still trying to build on my knowledge about many things. I hope someone else can be of much more help then me, insha'Allaah :) wa'salaam |
| Re: urgent: need & all about hadith |
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| Nisa |
| 09/15/03 at 07:29:54 |
| [slm] Br Timbuktu, heres a site which may be of some help inshaAllah: [url]http://www.alinaam.org.za/dhadith/auth_sunnah01.htm[/url] If I find anything else, I'll post it here :) [wlm] |
| Re: urgent: need & all about hadith |
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| timbuktu |
| 09/15/03 at 18:53:40 |
| [slm] thanks siters, & sister Nisa: that was a very good article you gave a link to. I shall be waiting for more input from you or bother bhaloo (why this bearish name?) or from anyone who can contribute. I also need to know when the Hadith were written, gathered, compiled, what criteria were used to collect & sift, tevidence for writing down in the times of the prophet (saw), in short the authenticity is being questioned some muslims are denying the prophet's traditions as heresay, & the agnostics & atheists are having a field day, while i am ill-equipped to show them the truth. i shall be greatly obliged. thanks |
| 09/15/03 at 20:10:04 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: urgent: need & all about hadith |
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| Nomi |
| 09/15/03 at 21:59:11 |
| [slm] Just wanted to add my 2 paisas... Ask them if they pray, if they do then how do they know how many rakahs are there in each prayer ? How do they know What to do/recite while offering prayer ? Tell them that they *do* follow sunnah and hadith but they just dont' admit it as Qur'an just asks us to pray but doesn't tell us how! So its indeed the Hadith that explains Qur'an. Hope this helps [slm] |
| Re: urgent: need & all about hadith |
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| jannah |
| 09/16/03 at 01:03:54 |
| [wlm] here's some references in something sh albaani wrote. also check out [url=http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=204]On the Obligation to Accept the Authority of the Prophet Imam Ash-Shaafi`ee[/url] btw weird coincidence.. as i was writing this got an email about some debates on Quran & Science... so check em out inshaAllah, u can listen and learn from them or send em to ur friends...http://www.angelfire.com/ex/debates/ Today, a sect exists, called "Quranites" who comment according to their whims and fancies; without seeking the explanation of the authentic Sunnah. They only accept and follow the Sunnah which suit their desires, the rest they throw behind. The Prophet salaallaahu `alayhi wa sallam is reported to have said that: "None of you reclines on his bed, the order comes to him on an affair which I am commanded to do or not to do, he says: 'I do not know, what is found in the Book of Allah, we follow." (Tirmithi). According to another report: "What is found in The Book of Allah as 'Haram' we pronounce it 'haram' (forbidden). Surely, I am given The Qur'an and its example with it.' Yet, according to another report: "What the Messanger of Allah has forbidden, Allah has prohibited it." It is a matter of regret that one renowned scholar has written a book on Islamic Law and its dogma, and in its preface, he says that he has written it and that he has made reference only to the Qur'an. This true hadith gives positive evidence that the divine law of Islam - As-Shariah - is not mere Qur'an, but Qur'an and Sunnah. Therefore, whoever hold fast ton one source for reference to the exclusion of the other, he held fast to none of them, since both complement each other. The Qur'an says "Whoever obeys the Messanger, obeys Allah". Allah says: "No, by your Lord, they do not believe until they submit to your adjudication in all disputes between them, then they do not find themselves oppressed with your decisions and they completely submit." (4:65) Again, Allah says: "When a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messanger, it does not behove a believer, man or woman, to have choice in their matter. One who disobeys Allah and His Messanger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path." (33:36) Furthermore, Allah says: "What the Messanger teaches you, take it; and what he forbids you, avoid doing it."(59:7) In connection with this verse, I am marveled by what is corroborated by Ibn Masud (Allah be pleased with him) that is, a woman came to him and told him: "You who says: May Allah's curse be on Al-Namisat [a woman who plucks hers or others eye-brows - to be a thin line - to seek beauty. Such an act is fobidden. It is a mean to change the form of Allah's creation] and Al-Motanamisat [a woman who asks others to do it for her] and those who tatoo." He said: "Yes." She said, "I read the Book of Allah (Al-Qur'an) from its beginning to its end, I did not find what you have said." He told her: "If you have read it, you would have found it. As for your reading what the Messanger teaches you, take it, and what he forbids you, avoid doing it." She said: "Certainly". He said: "I have heard the Messanger of Allah (salaallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) says: "May Allah's curse be on Al-Namisat." (Bukhari & Muslim) |
| Re: urgent: need & all about hadith |
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| bhaloo |
| 09/16/03 at 01:12:42 |
| [slm] I would not call those people ahl-e-Quran as those people are in reality rejecting verses in the Quran such as ones that call for obeying the Prophet (SAW). So how can they be called ahl-e-Quran? ??? Once I had a discussion with one of these people, and asked him how does he pray, show me all the proofs for everything you say and the actions you preform from the Quran. He couldn't provide details so he asked me for proof. So I showed him the Prophet's Prayer Described by Sheikh Albani: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/pillars/prayer/albaani/prayer_1.html He was amazed, and he became Muslim, alhumdullilah. Sheikh Munajjid also talks about this group of people here: Proof of the importance of the Sunnah (1) The Qur’aan speaks of the importance of the Sunnah, for example: (a) Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allaah . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:80] Allaah described obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him): “O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59] (b) Allaah warns us not to go against the Prophet (peace be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “. . . And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.” [al-Nur 24:63] (c) Allaah has made obedience to His Prophet a religious duty; resisting or opposing it is a sign of hypocrisy: “”But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:65] (d) Allaah commands His slaves to respond to Him and His Messenger: “O you who believe! Answer Allaah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life . . .” [al-Anfaal 8:24] (e) Allaah also commands His slaves to refer all disputes to him: “. . . (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59] (2) The Sunnah itself indicates the importance of the Sunnah. For example: (a) Al-Tirmidhi reported from Abu Raafi’ and others that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “I do not want to see any one of you reclining on his couch and, when he hears of my instructions or prohibitions, saying ‘I don’t accept it; we didn’t find any such thing in the Book of Allaah.’” Abu ‘Eesaa said: This is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. (See Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Shaakir edition, no. 2663). Al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, reported that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Would any of you think, reclining on his couch, that Allaah would only describe what is forbidden in the Qur’aan? I tell you, by Allaah, that I have warned and commanded and prohibited things that are as important as what is in the Qur’aan, if not more so.” (Reported by Abu Dawud, Kitaab al-Khiraj wa’l-imaarah wa’l-fay’). (b) Abu Dawud also reported from al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, that “the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) led us in prayer one day, then he turned to us and exhorted us strongly . . . (he said), ‘Pay attention to my sunnah (way) and the way of the Rightly-guided Khaleefahs after me, adhere to it and hold fast to it.’” (Saheeh Abi Dawud, Kitaab al-Sunnah). (3) The scholars’ consensus (ijmaa’) affirming the importance of the Sunnah. Al-Shaafi’i, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “I do not know of anyone among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een who narrated a report from the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) without accepting it, adhering to it and affirming that this was sunnah. Those who came after the Taabi’een, and those whom we met did likewise: they all accepted the reports and took them to be sunnah, praising those who followed them and criticizing those who went against them. Whoever deviated from this path would be regarded by us as having deviated from the way of the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the scholars who followed them, and would be considered as one of the ignorant. (4) Common sense indicates the importance of the Sunnah. The fact that the Prophet (peace be upon him) is the Messenger of Allaah indicates that we must believe everything he said and obey every command he gave. It goes without saying that he has told us things and given instructions in addition to what is in the Qur’aan. It is futile to make a distinction between the Sunnah and the Qur’aan when it comes to adhering to it and responding to it. It is obligatory to believe in what he has told us, and to obey his instructions. The ruling concerning those who deny the importance of the Sunnah is that they are kaafirs, because they deny and reject a well-known and undeniable part of the religion. ;============== he also mentions: Some people have started to claim that the Sunnah is not a source of legislation. They call themselves “al-Qur’aaniyyeen” and say that we have the Qur’aan, so we take as halaal whatever it allows and take as haraam whatever it forbids. The Sunnah, according to their claims, is full of fabricated ahaadeeth falsely attributed to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). They are the successors of other people about whom the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us. Ahmad, Abu Dawood and al-Haakim reported with a saheeh isnaad from al-Miqdaam that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Soon there will be a time when a man will be reclining on his couch, narrating a hadeeth from me, and he will say, ‘Between us and you is the Book of Allaah: what it says is halaal, we take as halaal, and what it says is haraam, we take as haraam.’ But listen! Whatever the Messenger of Allaah forbids is like what Allaah forbids.” (Al-Fath al-Kabeer, 3/438. Al-Tirmidhi reported it with different wording, and said that it is hasan saheeh. Sunan al-Tirmidhi bi Sharh Ibn al-‘Arabi, al-Saawi edn., 10/132). The name al-Qur’aaniyyeen does not befit these people, because the Qur’aan tells us, in almost one hundred aayahs, to obey the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Obedience to the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is considered in the Qur’aan to be a part of obedience to Allaah, may He be glorified. “He who obeys the Messenger, has indeed obeyed Allaah, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammad) as a watcher over them.” [al-Nisa’ 4:80 – interpretation of the meaning]. The Qur’aan, which they claim to follow, denies the faith of the one who refuses to obey the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and does not accept his ruling: “But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” [al-Nisa’ 4:65 – interpretation of the meaning] Their suggestion that the Sunnah is “contaminated” with fabricated ahaadeeth is not valid, because the scholars of this ummah took the utmost care to purify the Sunnah from all alien elements. If they had any doubts about the truthfulness of any narrator, or there was the slightest possibility that he could have forgotten something, this would be sufficient grounds for rejecting a hadeeth. Even the enemies of this ummah have stated that no other nation has paid so much attention to examining its reports and their narrators, especially in the case of reports narrated from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). For it to be obligatory to follow a hadeeth, it is sufficient for it to be known that it is a saheeh (authentic, sound) hadeeth narrated from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was content to convey his message by sending just one of his Companions, which proves that the hadeeth reported by one trustworthy person must be followed. Moreover, we would ask these people: where are the aayaat which tell us how to pray, or which tell us that the obligatory prayers are five times daily, or which tell us about the nisaab on various kinds of wealth for the purpose of zakaah, or about the details of the rituals of Hajj, and other rulings which we can only know from the Sunnah? Al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah, 1/44 |
| Re: urgent: need & all about hadith |
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| salaampeaceshalom |
| 09/16/03 at 04:03:28 |
| [slm] again :) I came across this, which I thought may be of some use to u, seeing how ur also asking about how ahadeeth were written, compiled, etc http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/scienceofhadith/atit.html However, I haven't looked into it myself, so I don't know how good it is wa'salaam |
| Re: urgent: need & all about hadith |
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| timbuktu |
| 09/16/03 at 09:39:41 |
| [slm] thanks you all sisters & brothers, your posts are very helpful. I have put this thread in my favorites list. it is so informative. i seem to recall that Dr Hamidullh discovered a manuscript from wahab bin munabba. this manuscript contains Ahadeeth that were totally incorporated in one of the books of Hadith. I need deatils of that. plus i need some more details on the efforts made by the muhadditheen in collecting, sifting & confirming Ahadeeth. may Allah (swt) reward you all with the best in both worlds. aameen |
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