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He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...

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He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Shahida
09/23/03 at 07:36:16
[slm]

I posted a q in the Naseeha about what men do on Jamaat...I still dont quite get it, but this is why I had to ask about it.

An elderly lady in my community had a nervous breakdown the other day.  She had to be taken to hospital.  She is divorced, all her daughters are married and live far away, and the only child with her now is her son.  he is not married yet.

He came home one day and said that it is his duty to go on Jamaat for 4months at least once in his life time.  He took some money for the airticket and stuff, and a few weeks later he was gone.  It has been more than 2 months already.  he has called twice to say he is ok.

Can this be justified?  Just abandoning his mother to go on thie "Fard Jamaat" expedition for 4 months?  Maybe someone in here can explain this to me?

She had a panic attack and then totally broke down because she was totally lonely...sub7anAllah.

Wasalam
Shahida
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Fozia
09/23/03 at 08:40:54
[slm]

I'd say in this case, the son is in the wrong, a man's first duty is towards his mother, right?
I read once (and as per usual promptly forgot the source). During our beloved Prophets [saw] lifetime, there lived a man, he lived far from where the Prophet [SAW] resided and he yearned to see him and be amongst the Sahabah, however he had a frail mother who depended on him. Upon hearing this the Prophet [SAW] said that what he did was good and he should stay and care for his mother. The man did once go to the prophet[saw] house but found no one home and immediately returned, as it was the condition his mother had set, she had asked him to return immediately on approaching the Prophets [saw] door. Because of his devotion to his mother and to the prophet [saw] he was counted among the sahabah, although he never actually set eyes on the beloved Prophet[saw].... I'll have to ask my husband his name and perhaps my ramble might make sense.

Anyways so my view the son is in the wrong.... Feel free to shoot me down, everyone knows more than moi, but that's why I'm here to learn.

Wasalaam
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Fozia
09/23/03 at 08:42:11
ooh just noticed I got two stars :o... how'd that happen????
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Nomi
09/23/03 at 08:57:49
[slm], me again !

[quote author=Shahida link=board=sis;num=1064313378;start=0#0 date=09/23/03 at 07:36:16]

Can this be justified?  Just abandoning his mother to go on thie "Fard Jamaat" expedition for 4 months?  
[/quote]

I think what you didn't get is the part in bold, and answer to that is "its not fard". What he's doing is wrong according to my understanding and interaction with jamaat of around 4 years.

I've seen people (general ppl, not talking about jamaat here) who after getting back on track, when start praying they are so zealous, or Allahu Alim what they are, that they repeat their prayers time and again by judging that their 'khushu' in the prayer wasn't upto par (i know a convert to islam who does that. no, not from this board!). Some people do the same mistake when it comes to going out on jamaat.

For instance, i mentioned it in a thread in UCC, that people are grouped in different sub-jamaats according to their profession, few guys in jamaat of doctors stopped their house jobs for going out on jamaat but the scholars of jamaat condemned this practice of theirs and asked them to continue their house jobs.

So what that guy is doing is not encouraged but infact condemned even by the scholars of jamaat.

I'll add something more, its about me and my family!! Actually Allah [swt] used these guys from jamaat to guide us! My elder bro got attracted to them some 5 years back and mashaAllah there was a big change in him, after one year of 'anky panky' i also started offering my prayers regularly and alhamdulillah our immediate family was next to follow then few aunts and their children.

Not that they are tableeghis, its just that they are alhamdulillah practicing Muslims now. So i was saying... My mother! she just can't live without us (me, my only bro) and thats one reason that i'm still in Pakistan! go figure.

But there were times when she allowed me to go abroad to pursue higher edu. she said that this attitude of hers is not good and that she should be strong etc. (but i stopped pursuing it coz i kinda knew that she'll ask me to come back after a couple of months!) but when it comes to going out on jamaat she was always like "NO! you can't, what'll happen to me without you!". But over the course of five years my elder bro has only been gone for 40 days at the max and he dint do it in a click, he started with 3 days, slowly took our mother in confidence and slowly but surely she got used to it.

My point is, those who are over zealous sometimes give jamaat a bad name and i strongly believe that they should stop doing it.

The reason i highly respect jamaat and encourage my friends from real life is that i've seen it work in my life and i've met converts (which is my passion btw :P ). I've met converts from china and there are many  of them found in raiwand near Lahore in Pakistan all the time and they are from many different countries. There are also places on this plannet where ppl only dress up in their *own skins*, at least 180 of them converted to islam from jungles of Congo! Allah used a jamaat to do it! Some of you may also have come across that heart breaking story of that Jap. convert. Bro Hanif might have met that ex-jew (now a Muslim), if he knows bro Mansoor and bro Nauman from london!

I dont go on jamaat regularly but yes i would like to be called a tableeghi, as they say in my native language "unglee kata ker shaheedoon may naam likhwana :P ", reason for that is when Allah will call on judgement day that which was the jamaat who i used to convert 'fulana and fulana', i'll be there inshaAllah with my few days with the jamaat in my register! Same is the case with this site i.e. when Allah will ask on judgementday that who are the people who participated in jannah.org from which many many people gained knowledge of deen, i'll say (inshaAllah) that ya Rabbi i was an addict too!

Speaking of addiction! some of us at some stage might have wasted their time on this board, the time that they would better have utilized doing something that might be fard or more important than being here! Now we can't blame this board for this action of their's right? In the same way what that boy/man is doing is his fault and i'm sure if someone from his jamaat finds out about the condition of his mother then he'll definitly be asked to go back home ASAP!

Lucid, if you are reading this... add something bhai :)

<i'll modify this post later inshaAllah>
[slm]
09/23/03 at 09:51:50
Nomi
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Nomi
09/23/03 at 10:05:37
[quote author=Fozia link=board=sis;num=1064313378;start=0#1 date=09/23/03 at 08:40:54]
Feel free to shoot me down
[/quote]

erm... but i lost my water gun somewhere !! *smiles*

Naah sis, me agrees with you. Actually i wanted to add more but i dont want to send out an impression that i'm advertising here or anything !!

InshaAllah there is no need for anyone to advertise as well coz in jamaat everyone is self funded, as the phrase goes "apne jaan, apna maal, apna waqt" and they believe in personal contact which is quite affective (makes me recall what bro Asim Karim said when i announced my return to the board 5 months back :) .... personal contact !)

Time to go home
[slm] :)
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
humble_muslim
09/23/03 at 13:58:40
Found an article by Adil Salahi.  If this is the case of Jihad vs. Parents, then where does that put Jammat vs. Parents ?

And also, without wanting in anyway to put down the tablighi brothers (who are better than me), I do not think that anyone after the Prophet (SAW) can declare it a Fard to go for 4 months on Jamaat once in your lifetime.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is well known that to take part in a campaign of Jihad, or struggle for Allah’s cause, is one of the most highly rewarded actions a Muslim may do. He is prepared to sacrifice his life for the cause of Allah. Allah is certain to reward him amply. In this light, consider this Hadith related by Al-Bukhari Muslim and others on the authority of Abdullah ibn Amr: “A man came to the Prophet (Pbuh) declaring that he wished to go on a campaign of jihad. The Prophet (Pbuh) asked him : Are your parents alive? He answered: yes, The Prophet (Pbuh) said: Then go and do Jihad in their service.” Linguistically speaking, Jihad means to exercise one’s best efforts. The Prophet’s (Pbuh) instruction to this man was to go and try as hard as he could to please his parents. The more kindness he showed them the better for him. What is more, to do so is equivalent in reward to fighting the enemies of Islam.

One may ask how can kindness to parents compensate for fighting the enemies when Allah states in the Qur’an, warning the believers against sitting back when it is time to fight the enemies. Unless you come forward (for Jihad) He will inflict on you grievous suffering. (9:39) There is certainly no contradiction in the teachings of Islam. Jihad is a community duty. Like we said earlier, if a sufficient number of Muslims go on Jihad the others are not deemed to have absconded. Jihad becomes a personal duty only when the ruler of a Muslim country makes it so by declaring full mobilization. To be dutiful to one’s parents is a personal duty.
NS
gobble gobble
BroHanif
09/23/03 at 18:27:21
Salaams,

Well for starters there is no such things as Farz going out in Jamaat. Yes its necessary to raise the deen but sometimes I think people become zealouts in their acts and its in all walks of dawah, not just tabligh jamaat.

I can sympathise with the mother and I actually feel sorry for her, one of the problems of dawah is who delivers it to you. It could be anyone from wacko jacko to someone who thinks they are pious and gives you the lowdown for 2 hours on death.

I'll give you an example, once someone gave me dawah in a mosque that if you go to umrah don't bother going to the grave of the prophet  [saw] your better off spending your time elsewhere doing dawah i.e. Jamaat.At that point in my life when the person said that it was a real bad experience, I became distant with the Tabligh Jammat and in fact kinda shunned them after that. It was only later on that when I associated with different people within Tabligh that you had a better understanding and not to become zealots like the previous ignorant guy.

In life there always needs to be a balance, just recently I know a bro whos gone for 2 and half months and his wife is completly distraught, she's got to manage three kids al by herself, spend ramzan again by herself and eid day. She's in tears all the time when my wife and mom talk to her and all she mentions is how much she misses her husband. What was the point for the bro in going I say, go for a few days but listen to your wife and hear her concerns, they are genuine.  So it needs to be a balance thats all.

May Allah make us all good inviters to his cause. Ameen.

Salaams

Hanif

NS
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
faisalsb
09/24/03 at 03:17:52
[slm]

Well it sounds all the members have consensus on the issue.

I'll like to add something to what sister Fozia said. The sahabi what she was talking about is known as Hazrat Owais Karni (rau). The distinction what that sahabi has over other sahabis is that according to defination of a sahabi the person must have seen Holy Prophet  [saw] in state of Imaan. Hazrat Owais Karni (rau) doesn't come upto that defination since he never saw Holy Prophet  [saw] in his life. But still Holy Prophet  [saw] mentioned him as his companion in front of other sahabis. And he got that distinction due to his love and care for his mother. Infact he preffered taking care of his mother over meeting Holy Prophet  [saw].
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Nomi
09/25/03 at 05:23:53
[slm]

[quote author=Shahida link=board=sis;num=1064313378;start=0#0 date=09/23/03 at 07:36:16]
She had a panic attack and then totally broke down because she was totally lonely...sub7anAllah.
[/quote]

Those who are from non-Muslim countries when are out on jamaat for 4 months come to Pakistani Headquarter of the jamaat, near Lahore (where i live). It'll sound weird but i was thinking that if his mother's condition is too bad then i can go there on weekend and let some scholar know what this guy has done!! and i'm sure that he'll be sent back.

Actually they keep a record of who is out on jamaat and their whereabouts. So to be able to do this i'll be needing his fullname, city/town name and country name and if he's carrying a mobile phone then it'll be a plus. He should have himself come back but his case might need an ear full from some scholar.

It's just a thought, IM or email me the info if his mother's condition is too bad.
[slm]
09/25/03 at 05:29:23
Nomi
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Shahida
09/25/03 at 05:57:02
[slm]

Jazakum Allah for the replies...

Even after hearing you say that there is no such thing as a "Fard Jamaat", I am not convinced that our local Tableegh Jamaat knows this.  Allahu a3lam, and may Allah guide us.

There is another case in our community: A young boy, 17 years old, in his last year of school.  He should be writing exams in the next few weeks.  These exams are the most important (in school terms) and will determine whether he can get into a university and which fields he would be able to go into etc.

He has applied to university and even got a bursary (dependent on his performance in these final exams).  He came home after a weekend  expedition with the Jamaat, and told his parents that he will be going to Pakistan for 4 months as soon as the exams are over.  This would mean that he would not be back in time for the start of uni next year.  He does not care, as this 4month Jamaat is more important.  His father lost his business, and he is an only child.  Coupled with this, he intends to get married shortly before going to Pakistan.  (don't get me started on that!! the poor girl!)

His parents spoke to the "leader" of his Jamaat, and asked if it is possible for him to go for 2 months, so that he can be back in time for uni.  This is impossible too, unfortunately, as it is 4 months or nothing.  "And 4 months is more honourable in the sight of Allah, than going to a Kuffaar university."  This all coming from a wealthy doctor, who also studied at the same "kuffaar" uni I am at.  He has enough money to disappear for months on end, and still support his family (support=money, not anything else).

The parents will have to fork out lots of money for the airfare etc.  (My q to the mom is why she doesnt just refuse to pay it? that way he will HAVE to stay at home! or what? ) anyway, complicated...

I have always had a good opinion of the TJamaat, because it was a means to get the youth off the streets and out of the clubs.  But I just don't get it anymore:(  So many different situations arise, because people have made Fard upon others, what Allah swt has not.

Wasalam
Shahida :(
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
lucid9
09/25/03 at 07:36:27
[slm]

Maybe such women should get a life....like seriously...

Oh.... i forgot that it was beaten into their heads from an early age that pious muslim women should not have a life....that they should forever be sequestered in the house, and utterly dependent on males.... So now, you can't blame them for tightening the dog chains on their sons and husbands when they stray too far...

Seriously, sons and husbands should be allowed to get away....and women, unless they are very old and unwell should be able to easily cope...

Tablighis are great... May Allah bless them and guide them...



Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Nomi
09/25/03 at 08:12:42
[slm]

Cases that are mentioned by our sister and others that many of us may have come across are obviously discouraged by all of us. Please keep this in mind while you read whats jotted down below.

How many people do we know, or have heard of, have sent their children abroad for higher studies and jobs? Have a look at the job market around you! How many highly educated people are driving cabs or are working in malls and gas stations? We do believe that our rizq will be made available to us by Allah right? yes what we've got to do is 'tawakal' i.e. first try and then rely on Allah (fasten our camel). But from how many places do we want to fasten it !!! one leg? two legs? all of them? the neck too? well the possibilities are endless considering the size of camel!

I talked about my friends who've been abroad for study, 4 in toronto, Canada, 2 in Houston US, 2 in England, 3 in Australia and these are just figures from one person, you'll hear same figures from many many persons. Now rizq is from Allah [swt] and i pray in Allah that he forgives me if what i'm gonna say next is wrong that, 70% of my friends that i mentioned above dont have a 'proper' job even after finishing their studies! Yes someday it'll pay off inshAllah but that someday is something that makes many of us running after more and more all our lives.

There's more, there are people with degrees and job experiences who are working at places where neither their studies nor their work experience helps them (gas stations etc), i'm not demeaning n e one (may Allah save us) as its Halal rizq and all good but my point is that its all in hands of Allah [swt].

And what that doctor said about that uni was outrageous, this attitude again is discouraged by everyone, in fact condemned. What concerns me is that when someone is away for business or job then not many complain  and are quite happy but when its for deen then people are seen criticizing them. In the process what we overlook is many lives that Allah is using this group to transform for good.

A place that once hosted few scholars and some uneducated listeners today hosts an annual religious gathering of around 1 million people, count them. I know that its all about quality not quantity and i've seen quality too, such quality that makes me say to myself *wakeup* and lift the deen, no, not in terms of going on jamaat but in terms of  lifting my faith and being more practical a Muslim.

I don't want to repeat all those stories of converts that many of us may have heard of from people who've been with jamaat, our sister herself has mentioned the change that she witnessed around her, so this group is being used by Allah like other individuals and groups, that you like, are being used by the Almighty. I'm not punching these keys to convince my sis here to start liking the jamaat again what i'm trying to do is to compare what good it has brought and what bad people within this group (like the two mentioned) out of their over zealous nature have brought to it.

Again, the incidences that you mentioned and others that many of us may have come across are discouraged not only by me but by majority of people who've seen jamaat work, closely.

[slm] and sorry for the off tangent post.

PS: Reading my first post in this thread again may also help clarifying things.
09/25/03 at 08:27:46
Nomi
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
momineqbal
09/26/03 at 12:43:35
Fatwa Question Details

Name  Fadlallah  - Indonesia  
Title Tabligh Group in the Balance of Islam  

Question As-salamu `alaykum. What is the Islamic view on the group known as Tabligh? One of the main principles of this group is the concept of traveling and leaving one’s responsibilities. What is your view regarding this?  

Date  25/Aug/2003  

Mufti  
Group of Muftis  

Answer
Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear questioner, we would like to thank you for the great confidence you place in us, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His Sake.

In the first place, we would like to emphasize that Muslims should beware of all routes and channels that may lead to differences and conflicts among them. Muslims should abide by the Qur’an and Sunnah, keeping in mind that they are the assured means of salvation both in this world and in the Hereafter. Referring to this, Allah says what means: “And hold fast, all of you together, by the covenant of Allah and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.” (Al `Imran: 103)

As far as the question in point is concerned, we cite the following fatwa issued by Sheikh `Abdul-Majeed Subh, a prominent Al-Azhar scholar:

“The Tabligh group is one of the current Islamic groups that call to Islam. Members of this group are of good intentions and morals. The group plays an important role in some places where its members educate and invite people to Prayer and Islamic teachings. They travel throughout different countries with the intention of calling people to Islam.

However, members of this group have some shortcomings. They, for example, believe in the obligation of traveling abroad for the sake of da`wah (calling people to Islam), heedless of leaving their jobs and families. Also, they lay a great emphasis on a certain form of dress, which may seem improper in some countries or cultures, while neglecting fundamental issues in order to be safe from confrontation with the different authorities and powers.”

Moreover, Dr. Sano Koutoub Moustapha, professor of Fiqh and Its Principles, International Islamic University, Malaysia, adds:

“May Allah Almighty bless everyone who works for the sake of Islam regardless the titles and organizations. Surely, the Tabligh group has been contributing a lot to the propagation of Islam around the world. May Allah bless them.

Yet, as any group, they do have weaknesses and strengths, and nobody can claim any group is perfect. Saying that, I shall point out they need to improve and re-evaluate their methods of da`wah. In other words, they have to develop their mechanism and methods to be at the level of challenges to Islam nowadays, especially in terms of spreading and propagating Islam in the Western world.
I am confident that with moderation and realistic approach they can gain much ground in many places in the world.

Furthermore, it is evident that da`wah nowadays badly needs new approaches and methods. Therefore, our beloved brothers in the Tabligh group should try to be realistic in this context. For instance, many of their opinions about women' s participation in da`wah activities should be reviewed and corrected in the light of the Divine sources, which call upon all Muslims, men as well as women, to be involved in da`wah.

Having stated the above, I can conclude by saying that there are many wonderful and great jobs done by this group in this era of materialism. May Allah bless all devoted and hard-working Muslim brothers and sisters for the sake of Islam.”

As to the concept of traveling and leaving one’s responsibilities, we cite for you the following:

“Men and women do not have to go with the Tabligh group and it is not obligatory. Each Muslim, within his or her own community, may invite people to Islam and teach others. The Tabligh group started in Pakistan with the sole purpose of reminding people to love their religion and abide by it. Their usual approach is simplicity, and they emphasize going out of their homes and countries to invite people to the religion as Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) did, and to teach care and morals.

Generally speaking, they don't get involved in any political or economic activities related to Islam.

Moreover, the propagation of Islam is the duty of all Muslims. The name “Tabligh” means conveying the message of Islam. Hence, the idea of this organization is sound. To go from one place to another in order to explain Islam to people and to call on Muslims to be more conscious in the fulfillment of their Islamic duties is commendable. However, leaving such activity to be done by only some people leaves much to be desired. The system followed by the Tabligh is to ask its members to devote a certain portion of their time to the propagation of Islam. A member is expected to devote one hour a day, or one day a week, or one week every month or two, or one month a year, when he would go out and call on people to attend more conscientiously to their Islamic duties. At times, some missions spend four months with the sole purpose of conveying Allah's message. Members who go out on these missions are supposed to pay for their transport and their living expenses. Members who are well off can support those who are not, when the latter intend to go on a mission.

The strongest emphasis is based on Prayers because the Tabligh believes that when a Muslim attends regularly to his Prayers, he is set on the way to be a better Muslim and his Prayers will have a positive effect on his behavior, making him a better person. All this is sound in theory; when people take an active part in the propagation of Islam, they feel that they themselves must be more diligent in observing their Islamic duties. It is true that, after completing a task in the service of Islam, some people may think that they have done their duty. They may become a little lax in their observance of Islamic duties or in their efforts to improve their own understanding of Islam and work better for it.

What is important is to follow a successful mission with actions that are calculated to enhance one's commitment to the cause of Islam and to make the next mission even more successful. Furthermore, important as it is to remind Muslims that they must attend regularly to their Prayers, it is not sufficient. People must learn what while Prayer is the cornerstone of Islam, building an Islamic community requires much more than a cornerstone. Going on an extended mission of four months or so raises a few questions.

It may be that the leaders of the Tabligh have made it clear it their guidelines that anyone who wants to go on such a mission must meet certain conditions, such as having acquired a minimum standard of understanding Islam, having provided well for his family during his absence, and not allowing equally or more important duties to be neglected during his absence. Take, for example, a man who has a young family, with two or three children still at school and a young wife. He may leave his wife enough money to look after the family for the whole period of his absence, and he may ask a close relative, such as a brother, to look after his family. But we do not think that such a prolonged absence in such case is justified, especially when we consider the fact that there is much to be done within the local Muslim community. The man will render a better service to Islam if he concentrates his efforts on bringing up his children as good Muslims and using his spare time to help his local Muslim community understand Islam better. An example of misuse of this system is found in the fact that some people who live in Europe may take themselves out of work, register with the state as unemployed and draw social security benefits for their families to live on while they go abroad, or even travel within the same country, on their propagation work. Such an arrangement cannot be approved by Islam. We are certain that the leaders of Tabligh would not approve of it either. Still it is done.”

The above is excerpted with slight modifications from: www.islamicity.com  
NS
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Caraj
09/26/03 at 17:08:47
[quote author=hyper link=board=sis;num=1064313378;start=0#10 date=09/25/03 at 07:36:27] [slm]

Maybe such women should get a life....like seriously...

Oh.... i forgot that it was beaten into their heads from an early age that pious muslim women should not have a life....that they should forever be sequestered in the house, and utterly dependent on males.... So now, you can't blame them for tightening the dog chains on their sons and husbands when they stray too far...

Seriously, sons and husbands should be allowed to get away....and women, unless they are very old and unwell should be able to easily cope...

Tablighis are great... May Allah bless them and guide them...

[/quote]

I am sooo surprised Momma Mod hasn't come down on you for this comment. Reading it stirred the anger   >:(  in me real deep.
Let me tell you how it goes. As a woman you are expected to put your hopes, dreams and goals on hold for your husband and children. Which there is nothing wrong with if you chose to be a wife and mother (THAT IS if people aren't down your throat constantly to hurry up and get married.

So, you are married and need to wash, clean and cook and be a good wife... nothing wrong with that.

The children come and you can't sleep, eat or at times even take a shower unless they are sleeping or hubby is kind enough to watch them (some do and some don't) I need a drink, I'm hungryyyyyyyyy, I need to go to soccer practice,   I need to go to the store to buy something for a school project, I need, I want, I have to, etc, etc

You spend 18 plus years caring for others, cooking for others, putting your needs on the back burner for others. And there is nothing wrong with it, but noise, noise, demands, demands, no time to think and after almost 2 or more decades of this BOOM nothing......It is a shock to a person. When my sons left home I didn't even want to cook for myself, I found it boring, a waste of time and effort to mess up dishes to cook one meal, eatting alone, no one asking for help, no ones wash to do, you are so needed, needed, NEEDED and then BOOM no one needs you.
Empty nest syndrome.

And yes, husbands and sons should be able to get away but did this young man prepare his mother? Make sure she had visitors? Was there volunteer work to help her feel needed and useful? What about the daughters? What are they doing to help? We woman are needed and used and have demands put on us and all of a sudden when our families are done with us we are just 'SUPPOSE TO GET A LIFE' ???

Women who have family demands on them feel needed and useful when they can help and do things for others, it is called compassion and love that the almighty gives us to indure the life of a wife and mother.

I hope and pray this woman is loved and cared for by her local mosque and the people in it. Maybe she can help a new mom or a mom of many who is overwelmed after she gets better herself.

I was fine with the empty nest syndrome thing but believe me....it was hard. Very hard.

Get a life??? Indeed....... Sons and husbands and even daughters, please be careful and compassionate not to demand of us all those years and then throw us away when you no longer need us.
Get a life    >:(    >:(    >:(  

Bet peoples words and thoughts would be different if some wife went off for 2 to 4 months and left her husband and children ohhhhhhhhhh but that is different right???
09/26/03 at 17:21:59
Caraj
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Nomi
09/27/03 at 04:25:17
[slm]

Thanks for that fatwa bro Eqbal, i just have something to clarify about the actual stuff thats going on and is somewhat missing in that fatwa. No disrespect intended to the scholar, not even in my dreams!!

There is a gr8 scholar who teaches in an islamic uni near my place, hes the imam as well, i respect him more than other scholars for his knowledge and Taqwa and guess what, he doesn't approve of the methodology of Tabligh jamaat!!! This scholar i'm talking about himself runs a "madrassa" and the jamaats are allowed to work and stay in the mosque built by him!! Allahu Akbar, the methodology is different but goal is same alhamdulillah.

[quote]
Also, they lay a great emphasis on a certain form of dress, which may seem improper in some countries or cultures, while neglecting fundamental issues in order to be safe from confrontation with the different authorities and powers.”  
[/quote]

But we all are for hijab and jilbabs right? doesn't that look improper to the *others*? Its the sunnah thats the best practice and inshaAllah it'll keep on attracting mankind.

[quote]
many of their opinions about women's participation in da`wah activities should be reviewed and corrected in the light of the Divine sources, which call upon all Muslims, men as well as women, to be involved in da`wah.  
[/quote]

Thats quite opposite from what i've seen!! Even my mother and sis have gone with jamaat couple of times!! Like its a norm...

[quote]
“Men and women do not have to go with the Tabligh group and it is not obligatory. Each Muslim, within his or her own community
[/quote]

Ofcourse, what i'll like to add is that one of the motos of Tabligh jamaat is "Think globally and act locally". What they go out for is for refresher course and to have some real life experience of how the Prophet [saw] performed dawah work (one form) by going to meet different people. The whole idea is to come back from the retreat with more zeal to work in local community which includes meeting with people of local community once a week, daily 'taleem' in masjid and in one's home and then meeting with people from next block once a week.

[quote]
However, leaving such activity to be done by only some people leaves much to be desired. The system followed by the Tabligh is to ask its members to devote a certain portion of their time to the propagation of Islam.
[/quote]

My understanding is that its all about seasonal members, like everyone is a member (if you wanna call it membership, although i dont feel easy with the word), the whole idea is that the dawah work should be done and everyone depending upon ones schedule should participate in it for some time.... open house.....

[quote]
He may leave his wife enough money to look after the family for the whole period of his absence, and he may ask a close relative, such as a brother, to look after his family. But we do not think that such a prolonged absence in such case is justified, especially when we consider the fact that there is much to be done within the local Muslim community.
[/quote]

People are not pushed to stay out of home over and over again but encouraged to go for 4 months once and to do it with hikmah so that their doing it wont affect their family.... and as i said....

[i]
one of the motos of Tabligh jamaat is "Think globally and act locally". What they go out for is for refresher course and to have some real life experience of how the Prophet [saw] performed dawah work (one form) by going to meet different people. The whole idea is to come back from the retreat with more zeal to work in local community...[/i]

Hope this helps in developing more understanding...
wassalam
09/27/03 at 04:33:32
Nomi
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Caraj
09/27/03 at 13:07:43
Due to a private message of concern (thank you for your concern) I thought I would briefly mention, my post above is not my situation. I have a life. I have two businesses, critters to tend to and more, and my 2 sons are in once or twice a week or even more contact with me. One even calls me about 3 times a week and talks to me on his cell phone during his 30 minute commute home. Not that I condone that, wouldn't want him hitting a deer on the back roads  :o  I don't call him, he calls me, I think the poor fellow is board driving home  :D

What got my rage up is I actualy have known or knew of woman abandoned after making their famlies their lives. I see on this post many times of sisters being pressured to get married and then someone making a comment about a woman needing to get a life when someone leaves her.

Nomi made some real fine points too. GOOD JOB OFFICER NOMI   ;)

We also only have minor facts, not the whole story. We don't know if this woman had emotional problems prior to this situation. We don't know if this young man made provisions for his mother or just left. And the person who started this thread did use the term.....olderly lady.

Just when I read so much pressure about getting married then read about how such women should get s life.......well the rage, sympathy and compassion get going inside me.

Ok, I'm done, claws and fangs retracted..... I'm done

09/27/03 at 13:09:33
Caraj
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
tryharder
09/27/03 at 16:27:53
[slm]

:'( Astaghfirullah. HEAVEN IS BENEATH THE FEET OF OUR MOTHERS!!  

>:( I get so angry when I hear things like this. Islam is not meant to cause hardship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is a simple way of life. We strive and do our best, knowing we are not perfect and BEG for the mercy of Allah SWT when we screw up. And Allah is OFT-FORGIVING! No wonder people think of the God of Islam as a harsh and cruel God, if they see things like this! Dont get me wrong ... by all means, if one has the means to make s trip like this and no responsibilities at home, then more power to you and may Allah bless you with what you seek, but to abandon your responsibility to you family is WRONG! PERIOD! FULL STOP!

[quote] So now, you can't blame them for tightening the dog chains on their sons and husbands when they stray too far...
[/quote]

I was proposed to by a man who told me (at least he was honest) that at some point in the marriage he would leave for an undeterminable ("as long as it takes -- 1 yr, 2 yrs, 3 yrs ... ) length of time to perfect his relationship with Allah. I immediately said no upon hearing that! Who wants to be with someone everyday all their lives then have that person just up and leave one day, not knowing if or when he will come back?! And imagine if we had children at that point?! It takes TWO good parents to give everything you can - and there are still no guarantees with that!! (no offence to single parents ... its a really hard job!)

The above quote is in reference to wives who have "no lives" ...
I agree, you cant blame them, but NOT because they have no lives!!!!!! The role of a muslim wife IS TO PROTECT AND CARE FOR HER FAMILY!! This comment begs the question ... how would any man like it if his wife came and said, "Honey, I am gonna leave for a few months. I'll call you every now and then to let you know I am ok and to check on you and the kids." If he would get upset about it, does that mean that HE HAS NO LIFE??

And I find it sad that a brother refers to a woman trying to protect her family as a "dog chain".  Brother ... I can understand if a bro wants to go play footbal with his buddies and she nags him everyday for no reason, etc. But we are talking about a long period of time here!!! Dont blame sisters for wanting their families close.

Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Fozia
09/28/03 at 10:02:34
[quote author=tryharder link=board=sis;num=1064313378;start=15#16 date=09/27/03 at 16:27:53]

I was proposed to by a man who told me (at least he was honest) that at some point in the marriage he would leave for an undeterminable ("as long as it takes -- 1 yr, 2 yrs, 3 yrs ... ) length of time to perfect his relationship with Allah. I immediately said no upon hearing that! Who wants to be with someone everyday all their lives then have that person just up and leave one day, not knowing if or when he will come back?! And imagine if we had children at that point?! It takes TWO good parents to give everything you can - and there are still no guarantees with that!! (no offence to single parents ... its a really hard job!)


[/quote]


[slm]

My understanding of these matters is, that a husband is not allowed to leave his wife for longer than six months, without her consent. I f he does she is entitled to sue for divorce....
These practices and ideas sound rather strange to me......

Br. Hyper, out of curiousity, are you married??

Wasalaam
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
lucid9
09/28/03 at 17:52:30
[slm]

So, its like ok when wives disappear to their parents house (back home) for like 6 months at a time, but its like the end of the world when the hubby goes off for 40 days and leaves behind enough money for everything to be ok?!

Women have such a bad opinion of tablighis.  For example, my mom, my grandmother, probably great grandmothers....have been cursing out tablighis for eons.  Some of em do buttheaded things, like take off for 3 months without providing for their wives and children...but those are the exceptional cases.

Sometimes I get the feeling that women cannot live with their husbands, and they can't live without em too.

Tablighis go out calling people to islam, its not like they are taking off on 6 month beach lie away on Mallarca.
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Caraj
09/28/03 at 22:53:13
[quote author=hyper link=board=sis;num=1064313378;start=15#18 date=09/28/03 at 17:52:30] [slm]

So, its like ok when wives disappear to their parents house (back home) for like 6 months at a time, but its like the end of the world when the hubby goes off for 40 days and leaves behind enough money for everything to be ok?! [/quote]

Whoa, whoa whoa??? who said anything about a woman leaving for 6 months??? The post was about a man leaving his elderly mother to go off and I admitted we did not have all the facts. I don't think any woman or man needs to go off unless it is by mutual consent and for a valid reason like family medical and illness (to care for someone in need) or for spiritual reasons or even a small break to re-group.

[quote author=hyper link=board=sis;num=1064313378;start=15#18 date=09/28/03 at 17:52:30] [slm]

Women have such a bad opinion of tablighis.  For example, my mom, my grandmother, probably great grandmothers....have been cursing out tablighis for eons.  Some of em do buttheaded things, like take off for 3 months without providing for their wives and children...but those are the exceptional cases.[/quote]

What is tablighis please ???

[quote author=hyper link=board=sis;num=1064313378;start=15#18 date=09/28/03 at 17:52:30] [slm]

Sometimes I get the feeling that women cannot live with their husbands, and they can't live without em too.[/quote]

ok ok ok I won't deny that statement might be someone true with some woman  :P  But some it is not true. Out of nearly 27 months of marriage my husband has been home only 7 or 8 months of it due to his job. He has been home a week now after being gone 8 months and I admit I might be ready for a small break already   ::)  But that is only cause I got so use to being by myself again, now I have to adjust to someone being around all the time.

[quote author=hyper link=board=sis;num=1064313378;start=15#18 date=09/28/03 at 17:52:30] [slm]

Tablighis go out calling people to islam, its not like they are taking off on 6 month beach lie away on Mallarca. [/quote]

Well, not all anyway. I can see where a man would use an excuse to leave and some who are quite sincere.

Final conclusion of mine  :-[  for what it is worth. I see no reason why a man or woman can't go on spiritual sisters or brothers retreats, for spiritual reasons or away to see family or to help family as long as provisions are made and expectations are talked out way a head of time (Like planning it months in advance not a week or two)

I have also from experience found seperation between spouse no matter what the reason if for a long period of time ( more than a month) can be quite unhealthy to the marriage. But that is just my opinion.

But hyper.......to say such women should get a life, maybe you did not mean it as I took it but it sure sounded a bit uncompassionate.
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
Learner
11/08/03 at 09:52:39
[slm]  :)

I accidentally ventured into this thread after having having read a post by a sister wanting some feedback to a certain link. Mash’Allah most of you have raised excellent points regarding this issue and I doubt that anymore needs to be said.  

However, and I don't intend to violate any of the constitutional pillars and mean no offence to anyone, I’d like to raise another point about an unwanted feature that is apparent throughout the Muslim ummah.  

One thing I've noticed in my experience as a Muslim, is that when a muslim commits a crime non-muslims usually put Islam on trial –  this is a quote I’ve read from the Ghurabaa flash.

Unfortunately the same principle is applied by muslims in wanting to judge other Muslims from different groups/jamaats/manhaj from themselves. Quite often  our response to the non-muslims is “Don’t just believe all the things you read/hear in the media. Go and find the [u]authentic[/u] information about Islam. Go and interact with [u]Knowledgeable[/u] Muslims to find out the truth about the way muslims think and behave.!”

But isn’t it true that majority of the muslims are guilty of stereotyping other people as well. We usually stereotype tablighis, ikhwanis, jamaatis, salafis and this group and that group etc etc yet we do not take heed of the advice we give to others ie. Find [u]authentic[/u] information about the group and interact with the [u]knowledgeable[/u] members of that group to understand their aims and methods.

We as Muslims need to change our attitudes – it is not befitting that a muslim should be prejudiced towards his fellow human being let alone his fellow brethren. After having got the authentic information and having interacted with the knowledgeable persons we may or may not change our understanding about them, depending upon whether the stereotypes proved to be true or not – but hey at least our hearts will be satisfied knowing that we made the [u]effort[/u] to find out the truth.

I can raise certain points about the other groups I’ve mentioned above but since this thread is only about Tabligh Jamaat, I’ll restrict my points to them alone. In the past few years alone, I have heard of numerous stories of husbands leaving their wives and boys leaving their lone parents to go out in jamaat. In fact I have heard so many stories that I doubt I can re-count them all.  We here these stories regularly like they way we here label  “Muslim Terrorist” so often in the media. This happens to so often to most of us that automatically we develop a negative feeling/attitude towards the jamaat and the stereotype gets cemented into the back of our heads. Next time someone mentions tabligh, we automatically connected it to the husband leaving his wife or the boy leaving his lone parent just like the way some non-muslims connect Islam to terrorism and death.  

But here are just few points about Tabligh Jamaat:

1.      No group/organisation is perfect (there’s always room for improvement – and this includes Tabligh Jamaat)

2.      No individual member speaks on behalf of the organisation – except the Shura Council (consists of scholars and elders of the movement) of the country/region/locality. The Ameer seals the decision of the Shura Council. The local ameer is responsible for implementing the instructions from the Shura Council.

3.      Tabligh jamaat has no formal procedures of admitting members ie. They don’t ask you to fill in forms and register to become a member etc. Anybody who is willing to give da’wah and get involved in the local community efforts is regarded as a “member”.  The advantage of this is that access is open to anybody and everybody who has a desire to carry out the prophetic message. The disadvantage of this (which the Shura Council acknowledge) is that quite a lot of weirdo’s can seep into the group as well.  

4.      A vital factor to the success of the jamaat is the simplicity of it’s method of calling the masses towards Islam. It is for this reason that the jamaat has grown to be one of the worlds fastest growing movements within a short space of  time since it’s inception in the 1920s. From brain surgeons and physicists to illiterate farmers and fishers, from submarine cadets to airplane pilots, from the old and frail to the young and ambitious – you’ll find them all involved in this movement together.

5.      Although named the Tabligh Jamaat (Preaching and Conveying Group), the movement focuses upon the muslim ummah, trying to make it more active and responsible. They believe that if the ummah wakes up and takes up its responsibility then the help from Allah (swt) will come down.  Focus on non-muslims is left to the individuals who should use their knowledge interpersonal skills they’ve learnt in jamaat to try and persuade them to embrace Islam.

6.      Going in jamaat involves taking time out from the “dunya” and dedicating time solely to improve one’s own self and at the same time calling others towards the prophetic message. Members do not go out in jamaat with the intention of “preaching/teaching”, they usually go out with the intention of “learning” and at the same time “encouraging” everybody else to do the same as what they’re doing ie. Go out in jamaat.  

7.      Going in jamaat is NOT fardh. If anybody says otherwise, then truly they are distorting the words of the Shura Council. The movement urges people to go out ajd learn Islam because protecting your faith and practising Islam is fardh - not because membership to the organisation itself is fardh. If the tabligh members of a certain locality say that it is fardh, then they should be reported to the Shura Council for immediate correction and reprimand and fundamentally the ameer of that locality should be held responsible for allowing such statements to flow through the ears of the local community.

8.      Going for 4 months before completing one’s education is against the “usools” (principles) of tabligh jamaat (unless special permission is sought from the Shura Council). 40 days and 3 days etc all have similar conditions attached – students cannot go unless they’ve submitted their assignments or prepared for exams thoroughly…the local ameer should know all this.

9.      The shura council encourages people to make personal sacrifices for the benefit of Islam, but leaving your lone parents or needy wife with kids and going in jamaat is against the usools. Sacrificing your job and signing on for social welfare is against the usools, the movment only encourages you to take a long break from work – not quit or resign.

10.      The whole essence of going “out” in jamaat is to learn Islam and the art of Da’wah so that when the individual “comes back” to his/her own community they must implement all that they’ve learnt in order to make their community a better community. This means they have to be very active on a daily basis with their family, neighbours, friends, masjid, muslims and non-muslims around them. If individuals are found to be not carrying out their responsibilities towards their family or community, again they should be reported to the shura council for immediate reprimand.

11.      Finally, you’ll always come across some weirdo’s in Tabligh Jamaat just as you’ll come across  weirdo’s in other movements/organisations who are very fanatical, extreme in their views, narrow minded, think they know it all and only they will go to paradise! Obviously, such fanatics need to be reported. But rest assured that they are exceptional cases and are not common. Judging from the number of stories I've heard about people leaving their parents and wives, I'd say that out of every 10 tablighis a minimum of 8 would leave their parents and wives. But gues what, in all my experience with jamaati brothers/sisters and research about the Tabligh Movement in the Midlands region of UK, I've only managed to pin point out eight genuine cases of a "weirdo in action" first hand. Eight may seem a lot to some, but just bear in mind that the movement has millions of "members" all over the world, in fact the largest muslim gathering after Hajj is the conference they hold every year in Bangladesh .

Anyway, coming back to the main crux (the reason for why I started to write in the first place), we as muslims need to be more cautious of our attitudes towards our fellow brethren, because it is this kind of negative attitude that’s preventing muslims from being united with one another – the truth being they always have this negativity in the bottom of their hearts although they may show that they have a smile on their face. Yes we may have our disagreements and we may even think that certain things that the other group is doing wrong, but we shouldn’t let our petty disagreements come in the way of our unity. We as muslims should be intelligent enough to understand our priorities especially in these difficult times that the Ummah is facing.  

If we can eradicate ourselves of this illness of boxing muslims into groups then Insha’Allah it will be a step closer towards true unity as opposed to lip service unity. Alhamdulillah, I know of a  group of brothers and sisters, in the UK, who have managed to get salafi / tablighi / ikhwani / sufi  scholars together to form their advisory panel of giving da’wah to the youth. Subhanallah, even though it’s just the start, it is really amazing to see these guys get along with each other, and then you start realising that the labels are a petty thing, the differences amongst themselves are of minor issue. The most important aspect is that we should all be UNITED by the love for Allah (swt) and His Messenger (saw).

I've just realised that I've been writing toooooo much so I'm going to stop now. If I have said anything wrong or offended anyone please forgive me. I pray Almighty Allah (swt) unites the Ummah together. Ameen.
[wlm]   ;-)
11/08/03 at 10:05:17
Learner
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
amatullah
11/09/03 at 14:40:59
I don't think people will like what i have to say about this. But the truth is it is not the exception to the rule when they are ignorant and behave badly. There has more often than the not where they have no idea even of the sunnahs of the visits when their whole approach to da'wah is based on it. They put the lives of other muslims in DANGER constantly. and the most important part is that a part of the aqeeda they promote is false. Maybe not individuals who mean well and just join to do good, i mean as a movment and organization it is based in some major falsehoods that borderline if not do Kufr. There has been a consensus of scholars on this issue and I have not read anything to speak highly about them from not one scholar of ahlul sunnah and jammah. If there is and I just never came across it please pm me the info as I am interested in finding out more.

The last time they were here a new Muslim almost left Islam because of them, the septic tank flooded in the masjid and costs thousand to fix, and that is besides the smells.

Anyway, I think that Allah and His prophet did perfect the deen and what the tableegh are saying is best is not sunnah of the prophet. They have created obligatory things where by they do *often* neglect things that are truely obligations on them like taking care of family and go do "khurooj" they have also made a system of days and months that the prophet didn't which is wrong. I can go on...but I won't. If you tell them something that is sunnah, they seem to still stick to what is "tableeghi" or "abu hanifa brother it's ok abu hanifa"!!!!!!!!!!!

The man who wrote Fada'il al-a'mal (what they take as a major text in their movment) he himself said he makes tawba from things he had written and warned the people should not follow this group.

Other Major scholars of the centruy including Bin Baz, al-albani, Bin othaimain, Alfozan, Al shaikh have all spoken against this tableegh jamaat in clear words. I have some of these fatawas if you are interested in reading them.

Or look it up on the pc you will see i think one also in fatwa-online.
So it is nice that we want to da'wah but we have to make sure first the aqeeda/creed are correct, thenw we should also know something about how to da'wa and not endanger other muslims or at least hurt them by what you are doing.


There is a book that exposes them in great detail but in Arabic if you are an arabic reader pm me and i will send the title.

Anyway if you do even a simple search on the net you will find an english book and many articles that explain more about what I am saying.


I have yet to see a tableeghi person who reads the fatwa of the major scholars of the century become convinced that they know better than him.
11/09/03 at 14:47:45
amatullah
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
amatullah
11/09/03 at 15:15:35
two more things:

Imam abu hanifa ra is innocent of what they claim! He was a revivor of sunnah may Allah be pleased with him

2.for the person who said that women like that should get a life and not be so "dependant" on the males and so let them go to the tableegh...... do you know the jamat tableegh stance on women and da'wah? I don't think they encourage the Independant view so it seems you contradict yourself.

Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
superFOB
11/09/03 at 16:44:52
[slm]

sister:

Whatever you have said is against the consitution of the board, and by subscribing as a member, you agreed to the same in letter and in spirit. Yet you come and pass takfir on a large group of muslims who like the rest of us are not beyond human frailty, and that too in the 'ashra of maghfirah. Reading this immediately after reading about the carnage in riyadh, this really really hurt.

Whats happening to this board?  What is happening to the ummah?  Where is the spirit of ramadan?  Imho, this thread belongs in the shredder-feed, locking would be an injustice.
11/09/03 at 16:47:10
superFOB
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
amatullah
11/09/03 at 18:09:00
Brother,
I don't think i broke the rules of the consititution
There was not a prolonged argument  about the issue. But there was prolonged praise that was an unbalanced view of the topic.


I certainly did not do takfir to any person or group. I am saying that major scholars have said that parts of the creed that the movment was based on and things from the book are borderline so. I think we have a responsibility to pass on that information as well. We can't just say about any and every thing we hear is good and positive on this board or anywhere  in real life  without being fair and tell what the knowledgable people say about it as well.
Re: He went on Jamaat an abandoned her...
jannah
11/09/03 at 19:39:18
[slm]

This topic is now closed. The prolonged discussion/criticism/defense of a "group" of Islam is banned..

Jazakamullahu khairan.


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