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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| se7en |
| 10/05/03 at 20:49:05 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah, I was completely *blown away* to hear the news that a Muslim couple donated 2.5 million dollars to fund the Islamic Studies Department at Stanford; and this was matched by Hewlitt Packard with another 2.5 million!! http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2003/september24/islam-924.html Masha'Allah.. in the Muslim community today we possess both the *financial* and the *intellectual* means to make things like this happen! Insha'Allah with continued effort on our part, and on those after us, we can see things like this come to fruition even on our own campuses. I remember a speech by a local sister given about the Battle of Khandaq [the trench]. The Muslims were digging a ditch to ward off enemy forces.. they were knee-deep in dirt, tired, uncertain of their future - and Rasulullah, salAllahu alayhi wasalam, with his own hands, began digging, and promised them success -- "the keys of Shaam [Syria] are mine, I swear by Allah, I can see its palaces at this moment" Striking the earth again, he said: "Allahu Akbar, Persia is mine, I swear by Allah, I can even now see it's white palaces" -- and he struck the earth again, saying "Allahu Akbar, I have been given the keys of Yemen, I swear by Allah, I can see the gates of San‘a while I am in my place." Subhan'Allah.. our Exemplar [salAllahu alayhi wasalam] was a visionary.. he has promised this deen success.. we only have to keep digging. wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah |
| 10/05/03 at 20:49:55 |
| se7en |
| Re: $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| ascetic |
| 10/06/03 at 03:44:45 |
| [wlm] Yup. This is just fabulous news. The fact that the person happens to be from my workplace make it more cool 8) Sohaib Abbasi was one of the earliest employees at Oracle who pioneered the "Oracle Forms" technology. He recently retired from his Senior VP position. He also funds a fellowship at UIUC that sponsors a Pakistani graduate student each year. I do hope that Stanford makes the best use of the money though. It would be super cool if Sh. Hamza Yusuf could teach a class for a quarter (Altho that would be difficult due his commitments at Zaytuna.) |
| 10/06/03 at 03:47:23 |
| ascetic |
| Re: $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| muahmed |
| 10/06/03 at 08:07:47 |
| [slm] People I have met who studied "Islam" in places like University of Chicago cautioned me against such departments. It took pious people many years under true shaykhs in the middle east to get rid of the poison they had been fed. They were full of doubts about everything, including bukhari and Muslim. If the entire department is run by true Muslim shaykhs it would be useful and good. But then that would be having a Zaytuna inside Stanford and I doubt that is happening. It is probably going to have these orientalist professors and "modern free-thinking Muslim philoshopers." Such people tend to concentrate on these "research papers" that prove the Quran is not completely authentic and the sahaba weren't really as pious as we claim them to be and Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Omar married their daughters to the Prophet (Saws) to become hiers to the leadership (aoozobillah). They would take just one translation of an arabic text and assume the translation conveys the whole meaning and correlate it with everything else and find contradictions between the texts. Those contradictions could be removed if one analyzed the original arabic and the different possible interpretations. But if one has not reached the knowledge of a shaykh one would definately be misled. I have glanced over a few "research" type books on Islam by orientalist PhDs in religion and philoshopy and it took only a few pages before I couldn't bear it anymore. I threw the book accross the room and returned it to the library the next day. Whenever people who don't practise the complete deen do "research" on Islam, the result is usually not something to cheer about. Islam is learned in places like Darul-ul-Uloom, in the kurdish madrassas in eastern Turkey and northern Iraq, in the many mosques in Syria, Jordan where great shaykhs still live and teach, in the villages in morocco and yemen where knowledge is learned from men who manifest the knowledge. Not in universities known for "research" as the current day "research" can dissect and mutilate but not make awliya out of men. |
| Re: $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| Maliha |
| 10/06/03 at 08:52:50 |
| [slm] dude i totally agree with Muhammad, Islamic studies is actually a growing phenomenon in the west. Our shaykh was telling us there are approximately 500 Islamic studies departments all over the country and all of them headed by Non Muslims. He said about 4000 schools are teaching some form of Islam and the number of Muslims over all can be counted on one hand. my research on "Quran and Orientalism" is really scary...there are a *alot* of Non Muslim scholars working *really* hard to crack open the Quran...misinterpretations, critiques, etc have gone a long way historically to even con-fuse some muslim [s]so called[/s] scholars that are demanding the Quran to be re interpreted to suit the secularist and modernistic tendencies. Why not invest in the awesome Muslim institutions that are trying to achieve the same goals run by Muslims for Muslims in America? [s]The Graduate School of Islamic and Social Sciences[/s] Alhamdullillah, I definitely can't criticize the awesome generosity of the brother, may he encourage many more like him to invest in other programs and may Allah reward him and all others who are trying to do something constructive within the society. (Amin). [wlm] |
| Re: $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| UmmWafi |
| 10/06/03 at 12:44:32 |
| [slm] Although this may seem kinda hard to believe in view of the fact that most times I don't sound smart let alone like an intellectual, I have the ambition to get my PhD in Islamic Thought, Inshaa Allah. Currently the road there seems to be a bit constricted and paved with hardships, but, Inshaa Allah, I strongly believe that I am on the right track because for every hardship I face, Allah Bless me with some kind of relief and indications that my steps are turned towards the right direction. Please make du'ah for me :) That said, when I eventually decide on the institution in which I shall be pursuing my PhD, Stanford would be one of them, besides University of Chicago, University of Arizona and McGill University. These institutions are chosen because they have produced some of the most brilliant Muslim scholars I have been fortunate to meet and study under. The issue of wrong teachings is not exclusive to these universities. At the risk of coming under fire and being pummelled by members, let me ask you this question. What makes you so sure that what is taught at al-Azhar is in some way not a mild form of "wrong teaching" ? I am not making any accusations, rather, I am provoking you to pause and think for a bit. How many of us actually can claim that we know exactly what is the true meaning of education, let alone decide authoritatively what form such education should take. Yes, the Orientalists have been insidiuos and persistent in their pathetic attempts to marginalise the Qur'an and the Hadiths and even the musannafs. However, ask ourselves, who is buying into their lies ? Sadly, some Muslims are buying into these lies. So what do we do ? Ban the Orientalists ? We can't so the next best thing we can do is to educate our young. If we don't know what the enemies of Islam are saying how do we combat them ? If everyone shy away from Stanford, how do we gainsay all the lies ? One prominent Orientalist said this. "To confuse the Muslims is easy. Just bring up and old issue and confuse them with new questions and when they are confused, offer them the answers." That is exactly what I see happening with the Muslim world. Muslims being confused by non-Muslims with issues that have been dealt with during the time of the sahabahs. Muslims actually buying into the whole crock which the propagandists are offering. Sadly, Muslims who offer a one dimensional solution to a complex problem. The only way we can counter attacks on Islam is to first know our religion. To know our religion is to first open our heart and mind to knowledge. Only when we know can we understand the difference between what is right and what is wrong. Don't forget, what is taught in schools are just facts and information. Knowledge is the interaction between those facts and your active intellect and your soul. Prepare your soul for knowledge and Inshaa Allah, you will be granted Hidayah. After all, even the great and wise Prophet Sulaiman AS begged from his Creator "Ya Rabb....give me an understanding heart". Allahu 'alim. Wassalam. |
| 10/06/03 at 12:49:13 |
| UmmWafi |
| Re: $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| lucid9 |
| 10/08/03 at 06:04:48 |
| [quote author=Muhammad Ahmed link=board=bebzi;num=1065397746;start=0#2 date=10/06/03 at 08:07:47] Islam is learned in places like Darul-ul-Uloom, in the kurdish madrassas in eastern Turkey and northern Iraq, in the many mosques in Syria, Jordan where great shaykhs still live and teach, in the villages in morocco and yemen where knowledge is learned from men who manifest the knowledge. Not in universities known for "research" as the current day "research" can dissect and mutilate but not make awliya out of men. [/quote] I understand the sentiment above. But I can't completely agree with it. We have had madrassas, and places like Darul-ul-Uloom and its cousins for years. But what good has it done? The point is the religious leaders have traditionally always been the leaders of our societies. And when the religious leaders failed to cope with modernity -- it was really the fault of the educational institutions.... Basically, there is something missing from our traditional forms of islamic education, and part of what is missing may be the "liberal mindset usually present in western universities..." I am not saying to disregard our traditional methods of learning. Of course not. What i am saying is that it needs to be augmented with something new. Having said that, I somehow really doubt that Stanford is going to make good use of the money. The money will almost surely be used to fund mostly christian and jewish Ph.d students and a few non-muslim "experts" in islam. It would only be worthwhile if muslim students start applying to Stanford in droves, and dominate the department there. But, I doubt that will happen. Another thing is: i think it is true that some of what is taught in these departments is not very authentically islamic. But for earnest, sincere and with for muslims with faith they provide them with settings in which they can learn about islam easily. And these people are often strong enough and confident enough about themselves to hurdle the idiocies some non-muslims teach about things like the inaccuracy of the hadith and the non-existence of prophetic miracles, etc. I will tell you bit about my experience. I used to take classical arabic classes at the center for middle eastern studies at a certain university where my arabic teacher was a desi lecturer (asma asfaruddin) who graduated from John Hopkins. She was very positive about islam, but was not that keen on prophetic miracles. Nevertheless, coming from her background, she was a big boon for islam, and has been since 9/11. In the same department was a man named Omar Khalidi, who really was a wonderful person. And you also had people like William Graham -- a western "expert" on the quran. Professor Graham used to begin his graduate class on the Quran by saying something like "I am not a muslim, but the possibility that the quran is divine is quite possible...." Such an opening statement in my opinion is rather refreshing given the historical western bias against islam. And in that department you also had a person named Annemarie Schimmel, who everybody will pretty much agree was a defender of Islam. In fact one of my friends who took her class said he asked her after class whether she was muslim, and she said "Yes." So you get all types in Islamic studies departments. You get the good, the bad and the ugly, but the good doesn't seem to be dominated by the ugly as much as before. And as many in those departments will admit, islamic learning does not end with a Ph.d. Authentic learning must include long stints in famous islamic institiutions like al-azhar, damascus, etc,...and must also include sitting at the feet of the learned sheikhs all over the muslim world. People who have gone through this entire process can in the end be extraordinary. I will give you an example: Tim Winter, aka Abdul Hakim Murad. He was educated at Oxford and Cambridge and spent many years in Egypt and all around the muslim world learning at the feet of learned muslim sheikhs. He is now a lecturer in divinity at the University of Cambridge and is the most extraordinary scholar, and the most eloquent exponent of islam that i have ever, like ever, met in my life. He is so authentic in his islamic learning, so orthodox, yet makes islam seem so beautiful, so wonderful, and so in tune with the modern world. May allah bless him, and make all of you who love islam even better proponents and scholars of islam... |
| Re: $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| Maliha |
| 10/16/03 at 18:34:21 |
| [slm] hey interesting tid bit i learned that made me think about this thread. Saudis funded the first economic chair in either Rice university or USC. The nature of funding is that you really have no right about what they do with the money. The school hired Prof. Kurran an agnostic, whose entire research is based on "Islamic Economics doesn't exist!" ...therefore we have to apply "neo classical" economics to our Shariah for Ijtihaad and the results are of course changing the whole nature and implications that can be derived from Islamic Economics. Related to this concept, the whole program at Harvard branch of Islamic Legal studies is the same..applying modern economic theories to Islamic Ijtihaad...you can pretty much then, by extension, make lotsa very Haram concepts halal. The implications of true Islamic Economics and the worldview it provides is amazing to say the least, but when put in the wrong hands it can create much confusion. For the first time *ever* i think i am agreeing with Hyper...*Twilight Music plays*.... there's a huge gap between Traditional Islamic Knowledge and the "Rational" knowledge in our days..and even Muslims who are really good in Traditional Sciences are having a hard time applying these concepts today. And many western trained "thinkers" have no clue how to integrate Islamic Traditional sciences and build on our "lost" intellectual heritage..most of what you have today are Scientists, engineers, etc who also happen to be Muslim..a really strange form of mental dichotomy/compartmentalization that also has its own set of problems in the very way we formulate our thinking. The western paradigm of thought and nature of knowledge has a lot of secular concepts that are sooo deeply imbedded in it..and it affects the way they approach everything. Only in a western Institution can make something as sacred as Islamic knowledge be completely desacralized, dissected, and eventually thrown out the window in favor of these new "gods" of progress, freedom, development etc. Sigh...its really depressing to learn about the wasted potential of the Islamic viewpoint in really leading the world to a better place. Most Muslims don't even really believe this.... May Allah guide our visions to a better tommorow(Amin). [wlm] |
| 10/16/03 at 18:40:22 |
| Maliha |
| Re: $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| BroHanif |
| 10/16/03 at 19:31:47 |
| Salaams, [quote]And many western trained "thinkers" have no clue how to integrate Islamic Traditional sciences and build on our "lost" intellectual heritage..most of what you have today are Scientists, engineers, etc who also happen to be Muslim..a really strange form of mental dichotomy/compartmentalization that also has its own set of problems in the very way we formulate our thinking. [/quote] Can you elaborate bit more please??? I'm a bit lost and sorry to say I only understand some of your points. Salaams Hanif |
| Re: $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| Maliha |
| 10/16/03 at 20:14:01 |
| [slm] i attempted to clarify my thoughts in the piece "finding meaning in a post modernist existence"...if it doesnt' make sense still...then forgive me. I am just trying to integrate so much and i think it's spilling over in this non coherence that i can't seem to get a handle over ::) make duah for me. Sis in ze struggle. [wlm] |
| Re: $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| timbuktu |
| 10/16/03 at 21:30:45 |
| [slm] should i be writing anything at all in this thread & the other topic by sis Nur_al_Layl "Finding meaning in Post Modernist Existence". Most things are above my head? i am puzzled & have some questions. perhaps some will be able to clarify the issues. i have been troubled by looking at another discussion board on islamonline.net it is a fantastic site, but under attack by a lot of non-muslims, & some muslims do not help, instead they are abusive to everyone. The moderators delete some very obnoxious posts, but their work-load is very high. This is good reason for jannah 5 posts-a-day rule. my real disturbance comes from some muslim posters who refuse the roots of Islamic teachings. They will only take Hadith that appeal to them. One of them is a female American convert with a PhD in art history. & takes the study of Islam in the american style of the liberal or social sciences. Q1: is that the way to study islam? i know our ulema & mashaikh have lagged behind in knowledge of the modern world, & rely on texts & interpretations of their respective sects' founders or thinkers, but the approach from some muslims i see there is very disturbing. The prophet [saw] said something like: "The best of times is my time, then of those who come after me, & then of those who come after them". I also read that he [saw] said the situation (wrt deen) will continue to deteriorate. At the same time i read that a mujaddid will come at the beginning of every 100 years. & i do think that if not every 100 years, then Allah (swt) has provided for re-education of the Ummah every now & then. but this has mostly degenerated into sects, or political groups, entrenched in the teachings of their originators. some new ideas catch on, then their fallacy becomes apparent when they fail. then i read on this board about progressive islam. people are asking that the traditional islamic interpretation has failed the Ummah, & instead muslims must take their cue from the West, & bring about a Reformation, divorcing religion from state. They say the Ummah does not exist. Q2: is that true? my home, my country, my family, my reason to want to continue to live, ..... has been the Ummah, however weak it may be. If it does not exist, i have lived a fruitless life. can someone please help with answers? |
| 10/16/03 at 21:38:15 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| Maliha |
| 10/16/03 at 23:11:55 |
| [slm] Since i have given up any attempt to do constructive work in this all procrastinating evening... I am confused by your questions and I pray to Allah for a minute my words did not bring on the implications that I am asking for a "reformation of Islam" or to divorce Islam etc etc. Let me clarify some basic concepts Inshaallah which might/or not help clarify this... First we all agree the state of Ummah is in Decay. Second: We all know the Islamic "system" works because it did before, and has worked throughout time when it has been implemented...Worked means on all levels of our existence it has given us meaning individually, family, societally...etc. There was no contradictions in thought processes at all. Third: Islamic Civilization went down the drain at some point. Why? Volumes of analysis exist on this. In lieu of education, it's important to study Islamic Sciences, traditional transmitted knowledge, authentic from the Rasul [saw] and the Sahabi, and *just* as important is to *learn* how to implement it in our daily lives today. Simple yeah? no...part of the reason why we "fell" is the over simplification of the "problem". Why is it that we know we have to formally study for 12-20+ years to be a scientist, computer geek, engineer etc... but then we assume going to a halaqa once a week, plus reading a book here and there is enough to suplement us with all that we need to know? We have to understand the system of thought that indoctrinates us, to know how to even begin to apply Islam today, in the West, when we are all wrapped up cozily in our ideologies many of which upon further study directly contradict Islam. If we really understood the philosophical implications of going to school, no Muslim would send their kids to public school. period. no question about that. yet why today some of the most practiscing Muslims, whom I adore and respect, still send their kids to public school? (please don't diverge on this discussion, there's another thread in Akhawat for this)...Sticking to the point, if we don't *know* the secular system, we assume it's "objective" and "neutral"... we assume that we can formally study and train our minds to approach "work" a certain way, and then somehow infuse Islamic "values" into this very benign system. Then comes the issue of Scholars...why do we have scholars talking one language and saying something over and over again, yet the majority of muslims are *really* astray? Why is it my sunday school kids groan at the thought of sunday school at the tender ages of 7-13? The reality is most Muslims assume althought they claim to be Muslim, the "study" of Islam is not only irrelevant but misplaced in this new "wave" of life. The west provides us not only a space to make "a living" but a complete way of life, with its philosophies, assumptions, inherent ideologies...what makes us think we can truly "transcend" and be really good Muslims, above the din of madness that precipitates into the depth of our beings? In order to understand the Quran, The hadith, the Seerah, we also have to truly begin to understand the "context" of today, not as a separate entity, but how Islam can actually answer these fundamental questions of ethics, values, etc and more importantly speak in a language that the majority of people understand (due to their training etc). The Rasul [saw] did not begin with building the state, etc. He worked hard to infuse the philosophical framework of Tawheed, and really building the foundation at the heart level such that everything the Sahaba did was in this context. When they exploded out in the world they had such a strong vision, such an irrevocable world view that understood *everything* stems from this Oneness and everything else is relative to this. Then the building began. Today many are hard pressed to even begin to conceptualize Tawheed, and many of us are struggling with "how can we run a Muslim state?" (sorry Nomi no diss to you) when we should be thinking of the bare essentials...and without understanding how the society influences us and others, and especially our children out there, how can we educate ourselves properly? I may be speaking gibberish..Allah knows best. All mistakes are mine..and may Allah help us understand (Amin). Sis in Struggle... [wlm] [quote author=timbuktu link=board=bebzi;num=1065397746;start=0#9 date=10/16/03 at 21:30:45][slm] should i be writing anything at all in this thread & the other topic by sis Nur_al_Layl "Finding meaning in Post Modernist Existence". Most things are above my head? i am puzzled & have some questions. perhaps some will be able to clarify the issues. i have been troubled by looking at another discussion board on islamonline.net it is a fantastic site, but under attack by a lot of non-muslims, & some muslims do not help, instead they are abusive to everyone. The moderators delete some very obnoxious posts, but their work-load is very high. This is good reason for jannah 5 posts-a-day rule. my real disturbance comes from some muslim posters who refuse the roots of Islamic teachings. They will only take Hadith that appeal to them. One of them is a female American convert with a PhD in art history. & takes the study of Islam in the american style of the liberal or social sciences. Q1: is that the way to study islam? i know our ulema & mashaikh have lagged behind in knowledge of the modern world, & rely on texts & interpretations of their respective sects' founders or thinkers, but the approach from some muslims i see there is very disturbing. The prophet [saw] said something like: "The best of times is my time, then of those who come after me, & then of those who come after them". I also read that he [saw] said the situation (wrt deen) will continue to deteriorate. At the same time i read that a mujaddid will come at the beginning of every 100 years. & i do think that if not every 100 years, then Allah (swt) has provided for re-education of the Ummah every now & then. but this has mostly degenerated into sects, or political groups, entrenched in the teachings of their originators. some new ideas catch on, then their fallacy becomes apparent when they fail. then i read on this board about progressive islam. people are asking that the traditional islamic interpretation has failed the Ummah, & instead muslims must take their cue from the West, & bring about a Reformation, divorcing religion from state. They say the Ummah does not exist. Q2: is that true? my home, my country, my family, my reason to want to continue to live, ..... has been the Ummah, however weak it may be. If it does not exist, i have lived a fruitless life. can someone please help with answers?[/quote] |
| Re: $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| Nomi |
| 10/17/03 at 02:09:34 |
| [slm] Its ok sis Nur, btw that thread had a different purpose !!! i was just trying to do some brainstorming so that at the end we all understand to some extent that why is a particular Muslim government is operating (operated) the way it is. (things make some sense when we stand in others' shoe) No one is perfect ofcourse. [quote author=timbuktu link=board=bebzi;num=1065397746;start=0#9 date=10/16/03 at 21:30:45] i know our ulema & mashaikh have lagged behind in knowledge of the modern world [/quote] This i think is one of the biggest problems with us Muslims, we blame scholars for the lag! I blame *myself* for this, i as a Muslim should have excelled both in deen and dunya, i should have followed the footsteps of Sahabah [ra], tabi'een and taba'tabi'een as they were keen to learn 'ilm' and 'hun'r' (knowledge and skills). Scientists of islam from the past whom we speak highly of were not just scientists, they also had good grasp on deen. So i strongly believe that scholars shouldn't be blamed for this lag but we as an Ummah are responsible. Whats the ratio of scholars to common people? There are at the max 5% scholars in the Ummah (may be) so i dont blame them i only blame myself. [slm] Asim Zafar. |
| 10/17/03 at 04:03:57 |
| Nomi |
| Re: $9 million for Islam @ Stanford |
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| timbuktu |
| 10/17/03 at 09:39:58 |
| [slm] 1st: moderator plz merge this thread with sis Nur's "Finding meaning in Post Modernist Existence" i come to this board because i find solace here, from the war on islamonline.net sis Nur, i was referring to the confusion induced by some posters - muslim & nonmuslim on the islamonline.net board. it was not my intention to tarnsfer my confusion to any one else. my whole life has been centered around the Ummah, but do i understand what is wrong with it? you say volumes exist, perhaps they do, & perhaps i have tried to understand, but i am not any wiser for the effort. i can see the symptoms, sometimes i offer reasons for these. For example, we found that the people from the Potohar area of Pakistan always say yes to you, but either do not know how to work, or never do the work in time. why is that? My friend & I figured out that the invaders from the North-West always went thru' this area, & the people developed the line of least resistance, which was to agree to the authorities, & let time take care of the rest. The second characteristic was wasting time, doing things very slowly. so i figured that since "bhang" is the natural vegetation of this area, the chemicals released by the leaves of this plant are in sufficient concentration to induce a sleepy atmosphere. but the same people, when they have something in their interest, think & act very fast. They just do not think working here is in their interest. Again when these people go to Oman, say, they work very hard. why is that? i see lies, i see shirking responsibility, but i see the reverse as well from the same person. why? & although the Ummah is one, this constant leg-pulling, harrassment, & the system is so sluggish & designed to make you wish you weren't in this world at all! & this is not confined to Pakistan, Egypt is the same, other countries have similar attitudes. why, why? & then how to improve these conditions? people (not anyone on this board) come along & say that islam has not kept pace with the world, it needs reformation. it needs to be secularised. they say: keep your religion at home or in your mosque. keep it personal. no need to want to have your spouse & children with the same religion. All paths lead to God. That is the wisdom of the West. the answers exist, in the Quran & Sunnah, but which ones among us are able to find them, & relate them to today's events, & to apply them to the Ummah? bro Nomi writes: [quote]There are at the max 5% scholars in the Ummah[/quote] well bro, 5% is a lot, but are they really scholars, or are they simply parrotting what their cheifs say. I think we have very few think-tanks, & scholars cannot live on pen & paper alone, they need money to survive. |
| 10/17/03 at 21:08:40 |
| timbuktu |
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