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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| Anonymous |
| 10/08/03 at 13:46:23 |
| [slm] I thought this was totally outrageous, but wanted to ask if anyone knew more about it... A sister told me yesterday that in Islam, we believe that Allah is able to conceal a pregnancy for up to 7 years. To be clear she explained, that a woman can become pregnant, and then not have the baby be born until 7 years after conception. If you're going, "thats just crazy"- imagine how I reacted. I told her that of course, Allah awj can do as He pleases, but He gave us the laws of nature, which prescribe that a baby is born 9 months and 10 days later(some a bit sooner, some later) BUT...it is not physically/humanly possible for the baby to survive in vivo for 7 YEARS!!! She said her son came home from the religious Madrassah with this story (he is becoming an Aalim). She could not say whether he found this evidence in the Quraan or any Hadith however. This story was disclosed in the Madrasah as proof that Amina Lawal was not guilty of extra-marital intimacy, but that it was her ex-husband's baby instead...just concealed by Allah for whatever reason.?? Anyway, please respond if you have *ever* heard about this. I am not claiming to be an expert on Islam or Medicine, or anything for that matter, so if this is true, maybe someone else can tell me more about it? Thanks:) Salaam Anon |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| se7en |
| 10/08/03 at 15:47:35 |
| ??? |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| Fozia |
| 10/09/03 at 06:37:53 |
| [slm] The whole purpose if the Iddah period is so any pregnancy can be detected and the resulting child given it's fathers name. The way the law stands (as far as my limited knowledge goes) is this. If a woman discovers she's pregnant during her iddah period she must declare it before the end of her iddat, otherwise the child is not considered her husbands, and is given over in sole custody to the mother. In the case of anon's question it works like this, say a woman's husband is away and she discovers she is pregnant, she can announce it belongs to her husband even if he's not been around for the prescribed 9 months. Upon his return if the husband refutes claims of fatherhood to the child, than it's not considered his however, should he accept it we are not allowed to dispute it. The minimum length of a pregnancy Islamically is 6 months and there's no maximum. That's my understanding of the matter anyways. And Allah knows best. Wassalaam |
| 10/09/03 at 06:38:36 |
| Fozia |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| Shahida |
| 10/09/03 at 07:02:06 |
[slm] I have never heard of this, so like Se7en ??? Anyway sis Fozia [quote author=Fozia link=board=madrasa;num=1065631583;start=0#2 date=10/09/03 at 06:37:53] [slm] The minimum length of a pregnancy Islamically is 6 months and there's no maximum. That's my understanding of the matter anyways. [/quote] What do you mean by *no maximum*...surely there is a maximum, or else what these people say about 7 years can be true...and no offense, but that's just crazy!!! ??? What will we be thinking up next? Allahu a3lam Salam Shahida |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| Fozia |
| 10/09/03 at 07:37:05 |
| [slm] Sorry I've just rechecked, the maximum period is two years. Remember I'm not an expert by a long chalk. AllahuAllam Wassalaam |
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| hayat |
| 10/09/03 at 09:10:25 |
| [slm] :o ??? ??? very conspicuous.... ??? [wlm] |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| readagain |
| 10/09/03 at 12:02:28 |
| [quote author=Fozia link=board=madrasa;num=1065631583;start=0#4 date=10/09/03 at 07:37:05] [slm] Sorry I've just rechecked, the maximum period is two years. Remember I'm not an expert by a long chalk. AllahuAllam Wassalaam[/quote] yeah thats what i thought, back in HS i sat in this education class with my friends ( i wasnt taking that class) and i remember the teacher saying somethign about how the longest pregnancy reported wsa for 2 years..wAllahu alam |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| Shahida |
| 10/10/03 at 05:50:29 |
| [slm] If you guys could please please post some references for this 2 year thing... Imagine what my Obs/Gynae professor looked like when I asked him about it....talk about embarrassing for me, hope he doesnt remember this if I get him in my final exams next year... Guys...I totally agree with Anon. This is just crazy wazy...even 2 years, think about that, 2 years? I mean come on, that's not biologically possible as far as I or my prof know... So get those fingers typing the references...you are confusing me here...:p Salam Shahida |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| SisterHania |
| 10/10/03 at 06:20:15 |
| [quote author=Shahida link=board=madrasa;num=1065631583;start=0#7 date=10/10/03 at 05:50:29] [slm] If you guys could please please post some references for this 2 year thing... [/quote] [slm] I think what the sisters could be saying is correct. The longest pregnancy is nealy 2 years or 600 to 660 days but this figure is for an elephant! "Elephants have the longest pregnancy of all mammals" from: http://teachingtreasures.com.au/Photo%20Gallery/elephant.htm "How long are elephants pregnant? An elephant's period of gestation (the time a fetus spends growing inside the mother elephant) is 22 months - the longest pregnancy of any animal." from: http://www.projectelephant.org/ask_project_elephant/faq.asp "There is usually one calf born after a gestation period of 22 months. This is the longest pregnancy in mammals. " from: http://sailfish.exis.net/~wesjr/tip0b.htm But I could be wrong.........add me to the ??? list. [wlm] Hania |
| 10/10/03 at 06:23:13 |
| SisterHania |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| Shahida |
| 10/10/03 at 06:31:37 |
| [slm] Sis Hania (been reading all sorts of stuff about Hania and Nomi, but me going with you being a sis anyway ;) ) JazakiAllahu khairun for that!! Lol, my mom actually said, "sure 2 years is possible...for a whale or an elephant!!!" Sub7anAllah:) Later, salam |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| SisterHania |
| 10/10/03 at 06:46:34 |
| [quote author=Shahida link=board=madrasa;num=1065631583;start=0#9 date=10/10/03 at 06:31:37] [slm] Sis Hania (been reading all sorts of stuff about Hania and Nomi, but me going with you being a sis anyway ;) ) [/quote] I just felt depressed because I failed my 3rd driving test and Maliha one of the nicest sis's in the whole world is leaving our team.......... :'( To cheer myself up it was nice making fun of someone...but I shall stop now :) Maliha PLEASE stay [quote]Sorry I've just rechecked, the maximum period is two years. [/quote] I was re-reading the thread and what Sis Fozia wrote. I misunderstood the context of this line until I re-read it............ if the max period is two years then it could still hold true. I think I am just going to leave it and conclude Allah know best. [wlm] |
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| Fozia |
| 10/10/03 at 06:54:45 |
| [slm] OK I am going to ask My brother-in-law, but this may take some time as I am really shy about asking men things like this but I will get back to you on this one promise. BTW for those of you wondering BIL is an Aalim Wassalaam PS Sr, Hania don't beat yourself up about the driving test, my own dear hubby has failed 4 times, which resulted in his driving instructer having a screaming match with the examiner :o My assistant at work failed her's 3 times, she didn't even get behind the wheel she failed the theory instead. My cousin passed on his third try My darling daddy passed I think third time round Besides you know what they say, drivers who pass first time round are really dangerous, therefore you when you pass inshallah will be a brilliant driver ;) Chin up, and keep smiling, May Allah give you something even better in place of what you've lost... (well you know what I mean) Wassalaam |
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| eleanor |
| 10/10/03 at 07:16:33 |
| [slm] wasn't there a case a few years ago of twins being born 18 months apart? I can't remember the details, but they really were twins. will try to find references Insha Allah, but it seems a bit weird that the waiting period in case of divorce is only 3 months. I suppose if longer than three months then the original father will deny it, that's probably why. |
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| Fozia |
| 10/10/03 at 08:20:46 |
| [slm] You do occasionally get different cases in terms of pregnancies. I remember about a year ago, I read in the papers of a woman who had triplets, nothing strange about that, but the girls grew inside the womb whilst the boy grew outside the womb, he was lying on top of it if I remember correctly, the doctors were really surprised when they delivered a healthy baby boy although his birth weight was slightly lower than his sisters', he was regarded as type of etopic pregnancy... dunno I'm not a med. Anyways, my point being just because it doesn't happen everyday doesn't mean I'm out of my tree.... :-/ Wassalaam |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| SisterHania |
| 10/10/03 at 08:28:39 |
| [slm] [quote author=Fozia link=board=madrasa;num=1065631583;start=0#11 date=10/10/03 at 06:54:45] [slm] BTW for those of you wondering BIL is an Aalim [/quote] Mashallah how cool is that :) Sis Fozia I'd love to be related to someone so learned about Islam. [quote author=Fozia link=board=madrasa;num=1065631583;start=0#11 date=10/10/03 at 06:54:45] Chin up, and keep smiling, May Allah give you something even better in place of what you've lost... (well you know what I mean) [/quote] Oh JazakhAllah Sis Fozia that is so sweet of you :-* I cried after failing 2nd and 3rd time, driving is the one thing I can't seem to crack. I always go wide on the test in my reverse around the corner manovere and I always get a Fail for that :( But what is worrying is in addition to the theory test and the practical test there is now the car maintenance test.........passing seems to be getting more difficult :'( Inshallah soon when it is meant to be it will be :) [quote] wasn't there a case a few years ago of twins being born 18 months apart? I can't remember the details, but they really were twins. [/quote] Sis Elenor I just looked it up and it appears that in this case: Twins born 18 months apart to British couple. The "Conception Twins" were conceived from the same batch of sperm and eggs. The first twin, the result of GIFT, was delivered in early 1997 and the second twin, frozen earlier from excess fertilised eggs after GIFT, and transferred back into the uterus 18 months later, was delivered in mid 1998. The country's first "Conception Quadruplets" consist of 2 babies born in 2001 and another 2 babies born in Jan 2003. Looks like ??? again :( |
| 10/10/03 at 08:30:18 |
| SisterHania |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| SisterHania |
| 10/10/03 at 08:32:58 |
| [slm] hmmmmmm read this below, maybe this is what the 7 years actually refers to? http://humrep.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/14/6/1650 Full term delivery following cryopreservation of human embryos for 7.5 years: Case report Snunit Ben-Ozer1 and Michael Vermesh Center for Human Reproduction, Los Angeles, California, 18370 Burbank Blvd, Suite 301, Tarzana, CA 91356, USA Successful pregnancy in a 44 year old woman is described following the transfer of embryos which were cryopreserved for 7.5 years. The embryos were obtained during a gamete intra-Fallopian transfer (GIFT) procedure in 1989. To our knowledge this is one of the longest published periods of cryopreservation of embryos which has resulted in a healthy baby. This report illustrates the previously presumed viability and normality of human embryos undergoing long-term cryopreservation. Additionally, it emphasizes the importance for advanced reproductive technique programmes and patients to review and update their embryo status. |
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| theOriginal |
| 10/10/03 at 12:19:35 |
| [slm] Wow, this is just nuts. I'm not saying it's not possible...but man! That's just nuts. I once read an article in a Pakistani newspaper about the oldest woman in the world having been found somewhere in Abbottabad. She was 216 years old. That's nuts, too. I mean we know that Hadhrat Nuh (as) lived a reeeeeeeeally long time, but that happening now...is just nuts. Did I mention it sounds nuts? Maybe some people have a different way of counting years. Wasalaam. |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| Shahida |
| 10/13/03 at 04:51:19 |
| [slm] Yeah, lol, JustOne, nuts is an understatement. From what I understand about those "twins" being born 18 months apart: this is how it works---> they were "conception" twins, which means that they were "conceived", ie fertilised at the same time from the same batch of ova and sperm. This is done OUTSIDE of the body. They implanted the first embryo into the mom, and then waited 18 months before implanting the second- it was frozen in the meantime. Hence the second baby was NOT hibernating in the uterus all that time, instead it was in a test tube somewhere in a lab freezer. Therefore this case does not fulfill the criteria of a baby incubating for more than the normal 9 odd months inside the mother. It thus fails to satisfy my need for proof of the original Anon post. Ok, Sis Fozia :) You're not out of your tree...:) The case you quoted is not *that* rare, in fact in the last few years I have heard of several of these ectopic babies, in fact one was born here in SA not long ago. She grew below her mom's liver, sub7anAllah, instead of in the uterus. Sometimes, when the embryo is making its way towards the uterus (where is it *supposed* to go) it gets lost, and can end up in the abdomen for example. I have heard of these cases, and so have most people. BUT I am yet to hear of an IN VIVO (ie in the uterus of its own mom) baby being born more than 9 odd months AFTER it was conceived in the normal method of conception, no test-tubes and stuff. So, bring that proof, you got my curiosity to a point, where I might just wanna kill the cat, errr elephant ;) Salam Shahida :-) |
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| AishaUmAmr |
| 10/15/03 at 22:23:06 |
| [font=Verdana][color=Navy]Asalaamu Alaikum; [quote]This story was disclosed in the Madrasah as proof that Amina Lawal was not guilty of extra-marital intimacy, but that it was her ex-husband's baby instead...just concealed by Allah for whatever reason.?? [/quote] As I understand it, Nigeria's Shari'ah courts follow the Maliki madhab, and in the Malaki madhab, "mystery gestations" can indeed occur. I've heard various reports about what the Maliki madhab allows, so am not sure about the length -- somewhere between four and seven years. It's an allowable defense against the charge of zina in the case of divorced women. I, for one, hesitate to speak out against this particular ruling as it allows women to escape the death penalty...regardless of how much scientific sense it may or may not make. I'm not sure why it'd be considered "nuts" (as some here have put it). Allah subhana wa ta'ala is capable of anything, even of contravening what we [i]think[/i] we understand about human pregnancies. Do I need to point out that in 2003 we are still only at the beginning of knowledge? Just some food for thought. :-*[/color][/font] |
| 10/15/03 at 22:24:15 |
| AishaUmAmr |
| Re: Concealed Pregnancy? |
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| Shahida |
| 10/17/03 at 01:58:32 |
| [slm] sis AishaUmAmr :) Sister, I doubt *anyone* here was implying that Allah swt was *incapable* of doing anything He pleases. Alhamdulillah. We know that Allah can make anything happen, even (and especially) beyond our limited human understanding. He awj made Nabi Esa (Jesus) pbuh, and we all know he had no father. But Allah swt did explain to us in the Quraan about his immaculate conception. No scientist in the world can explain that without acknowledging Allah's almighty ability to do as He pleases. If what you say is true, then I would think that Imam Malik, may Allah be pleased with him, MUST have got his proof somewhere. All I want is for someone to come up with some references. It is no good saying, oh I heard this, I think that, you have to have some sort of reference for your claim either way. The grapevine is a noisy place to live, but most of the stories just aint true, sorry. ;) Salam Shahida :-) |
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| ido |
| 10/17/03 at 05:08:01 |
| :-/ :-/ :-/ got on to this topic a little late! what a cracker! this reminds me of the news report that a woman in nigeria was pregnant for 5 years. and after those long five years, she finally gave birth to a........ TURTLE!!!! ??? and the most hilarious thing was that her husband said he would stand by his wife and new child!!! hope you guys all have a great jumaa! ido. |
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| Fozia |
| 10/17/03 at 07:15:39 |
| [slm] Oh dear Oh dear methinks I'd bbetter hurry up and ask bil before things really go crazy!!! Wassalaam |
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