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hadith and the quran

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hadith and the quran
ltcorpest2
11/13/03 at 20:33:31
ok, This will sound really lame.  I have been here for 2 years now and I feel i should have known this by now.  I have a copy of the quran,  Am i supposed to have a copy of the hadiths and are they contained in one book?  and do most (i guess that would be practising) muslims read both or one over the other?


mike
Re: hadith and the quran
ltcorpest2
11/13/03 at 21:29:17
hey,  how come there are 11 views and not one answer?  
Re: hadith and the quran
superFOB
11/13/03 at 21:37:40
Mike

You could have gone to ANY masjid and they would've been tripping over each other to hand you a copy of the quran. lol

Anyways, what you need is a copy of the quran with english translation and tafsir (the explanation). The translation is in-line, i.e., each arabic line of text is followed by a line of english translation. If there is material on the borders, it is most probably tafsir. It should be clear from the title but sometimes its not.

Tafsir is done using reports from the times of the Prophet  [saw], the times of the companions of the Prophet  [saw], the generation following the companions, rules of fiqh, etc. Only the most knowledgeable of the scholars venture to do a tafsir and only a few have managed to do justice in all 1400 years. The most popular is the one attributed to Ibn Kathir (RA). Tafsir may be in any language (even arabic), but you need it english of course.

You don't need books of ahadith at this point in time.

Hope it helps.
Re: hadith and the quran
Taalibatul_ilm
11/13/03 at 22:30:03
I think hadeeths are a great source of information for non-Muslims, not to mention Muslims.  Reading hadeeths really helped me learn and grow when I first became a Muslim.  The thing though Mike is that there are hundreds of thousands of them, and they have different grades according to the chain of transmitters, etc.  There is a condensed book of the Bukhari collection of hadeeth which are all authentic and that would give you a lot to read.  
http://islamicbookstore.com/b4105.html
Re: hadith and the quran
se7en
11/14/03 at 00:46:08
salaam / peace Mike,

Hm.. no, there isn't one book of hadith.. there are actually different collections of hadith by well known scholars, the largest and most comprehensive being those produced in the ninth century.  Usually when you read a quote of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)  you see a name after it, (like "Bukhari", "Muslim", "Tirmidhi").. this signifies that the quote cited is from one of their books.

The Qur'an is believed to be in it's *entirety* free of human error, and the authentic, exact word of God as revealed to the prophet Muhammad.  Because of God's promise to preserve this divine text, and the rigorous process by which the Qur'an was collected (under the rule of the 3rd caliph Uthman) it is accepted by all Muslims (and many many non-Muslims) to be free of error.

Though the Sunnah, or the prophetic example, is also believed to be divinely guided, the hadeeth, or the *narrations about* the prophetic example (what he did, said, approved of, etc) that were memorized, collected and written, are subject to human error.  These narrations therefore have different levels of authenticity, depending on the chain of transmitters that trace the quote back to the prophet Muhammad and the actual text itself.

Soo.. there is an analysis of the chain of transmission... Is each transmitter in the chain known as a credible witness, of upright character and with intellectual/scholarly ability and memory?  Do they match up chronologically with the person before them?  Is there more than one chain, with numerous people from numerous backgrounds, attributing the quote to Muhammad?

And also the text of the narration is subject to analysis as well.. Is it linguistically sound? Are there any foreign words that may have been added later on?

It's a really systematic and interested process called Hadith Criticism.

So through this process of Hadith Criticism each hadith is given a categorization.. there are many categorizations from 'authentic and sound' to 'weak and unreliable', etc.  Of course the ones that are most authentic have more weight.

Both the Qur'an and the Hadith (as a whole) are taken as sources of law for Muslims.  Usually the Qur'an has the commands and prohibitions, but it is in the hadith that we learn *how* to do things.  Like for example, the Qur'an exhorts people to pray, but the actual details about the prayer, how to do it, when exactly to do it, etc, are described in the hadith literature.

whew.. I hope that made some kinda sense.. lemme know if you have any questions..

Hmm.. see, it's hard to recommend one particular book of hadith.. but if you just want a taste of what the hadith are like, you can check out "a treasury of ahadith" by mazhar u kazi.. I like that book a lot :)

take care,

se7en :)
11/14/03 at 01:51:00
se7en
Re: hadith and the quran
eleanor
11/14/03 at 07:55:36
[slm]

I started out with Imam Nawawi's 40 hadith. It has just 40 hadith, but 40 very authentic and very profound hadith.
It is excellent to get started on reading hadith and has an explanation for each one in it.
I would definitely advise you to get this book first.

All the best!
Re: hadith and the quran
sofia
11/14/03 at 10:41:58
Mike,
As someone once put it: Learning about the sunnah is like feeling a breeze from Madinah.

Gives a good idea of how Qur’aanic teachings were [i]enacted[/i] by Prophet Muhammad, pbuh. And the more (legit) commentary there is along with the hadiths, the better (as with the Qur’aan, things can sometimes get lost in (just a) translation).

I’d definitely second both se7en’s and Eleanor’s suggestions. You can get M. Kazi’s “Treasury of Ahadith” book online (like at www.islamicbookstore.com). It's short and an easy read. You can read  [url=http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/riyad/default.htm]”Riyad as-Saaliheen”[/url] online (with commentary). It's longer, but sectioned, so it's easy to navigate through. By the same author that Eleanor mentioned.

In addition to se7en's excellent intro, check out the USC Islamic Server Intro to Sunnah and Hadith:

[color=black]In Islam, the Arabic word sunnah has come to denote the way Prophet Muhammad (saas), the Messenger of Allah, lived his life. The Sunnah is the second source of Islamic jurisprudence, the first being the Qur'an. Both sources are indispensable; one cannot practice Islam without consulting both of them. The Arabic word hadith (pl. ahadith) is very similar to Sunnah, but not identical. A hadith is a narration about the life of the Prophet (saas) or what he approved - as opposed to his life itself, which is the Sunnah as already mentioned.

In M. M. Azami's Studies in Hadith Methodology and Literature, the following precise definition of a hadith is given,

According to Muhaddithiin [scholars of hadith -ed.] it stands for 'what was transmitted on the authority of the Prophet, his deeds, sayings, tacit approval, or description of his sifaat (features) meaning his physical appearance. However, physical appearance of the Prophet is not included in the definition used by the jurists.'

Thus hadith literature means the literature which consists of the narrations of the life of the Prophet and the things approved by him. However, the term was used sometimes in much broader sense to cover the narrations about the Companions [of the Prophet -ed.] and Successors [to the Companions -ed.] as well.

The explosion of Islam in the 7th and 8th centuries confronted Islamic scholars with a daunting task: to preserve the knowledge of the Sunnah of the Prophet (saas). Hence the science of hadith evaluation was born. We recommend that you read the "Introduction to the Science of Hadith" below to understand the tremendous efforts that were required to sift the true reports from the false reports… [/color]

[url=http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/scienceofhadith/atit.html]An Introduction to the Science of Hadith[/url]
11/14/03 at 10:46:19
sofia
Re: hadith and the quran
ltcorpest2
11/16/03 at 12:24:48
hey,  thanks for all your info.  super fob,  i felt better getting my own quran , but it in retrospect i probably should have gone to the masjid and saved myself a few bucks.  My 1st outing to masjid didn't work out though.  I looked one up in the yellow pages and went to the closest one in my office.  It was not in the best part of town (in van nuys) and the address showed a massage parlor.  I think it was maybe a muslim center of some sort above, but i didn't want to park there in case anyone i knew saw me stopping at the massage parlor.  I need to make the time to go again somewhere else.
Re: hadith and the quran
UmmWafi
11/17/03 at 11:37:18
Salam Mike

Some people go to a restaurant and get poor service and swore never to eat in the restaurant again.  Some would give the restaurant a chance because after all its the waiter who is rude, the food might be delicious and the waiter might have been trained and changed.

Which patron are you likely to be ? The one who swore never to eneter the restaurant again or the one who would give it a chance ?

The Holy Qur'an is a beautiful collection of the Words of Allah, ie, they are divine revelations.  The Hadiths is a beautiful collection of the sayings and deeds of the Prophet  [saw].  They are not divine but they tell you how to and why you should obey the divine.  The Hadith complements the Qur'an.

Best of luck with the parking and should a nosy neighbour snitch on you and the massage parlour...well, you can say that age is catching up with u and u can feel your years in your joints  ;)

Wassalam.
11/17/03 at 11:38:45
UmmWafi
Re: hadith and the quran
ltcorpest2
11/17/03 at 17:31:22
Umm Wafi,  I think the place I ended up at was a cultural center and not a masjid.  I think there is one on reseda and i do have plans to go to that one.  
Re: hadith and the quran
UmmWafi
11/18/03 at 02:38:41
So Mike, no mixing business with pleasure eh ?  ;)

Where are you at and I shall see if I know anyone in that area to help you out.
Re: hadith and the quran
superFOB
11/18/03 at 09:21:53
[quote author=mike aka ltcorpest2 link=board=lighthouse;num=1068773611;start=0#9 date=11/17/03 at 17:31:22]Umm Wafi,  I think the place I ended up at was a cultural center and not a masjid.  I think there is one on reseda and i do have plans to go to that one.  [/quote]

It is not a cultural center (not at least in the usual sense), rather a musallah (a makeshift masjid), founded and managed by Afghan immigrants. It is inactive throughout the year except in Ramadan and when the Tablighis do their periodic visitation (may Allah reward them for their effort). The musallah is on the first floor and there is an entrance from the back also, which is what the regulars use. I don't know whether the musallah predates the massage parlor or vice versa, but the musallah is there to stay inshallah. Since the place is dormant most of the year, visiting it is not a very good idea, imho.

There are a number of very active masajid (mosques) near Chatsworth. There is one in Granada Hills, another one on Tampa (nearest cross street is Reseda if I recollect correctly), and one on Reseda as you mentioned. The latter two, at least, have iftaar (Ramadan breaking of fast at sun down) every day this month (Ramadan). Why don't you go have a free meal and chat with the regulars? I know of a couple of mosques in North Hollywood as well. There might be more but these are the prominent ones.
11/18/03 at 09:23:39
superFOB


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