A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musul |
|---|
| tincanman |
| 11/24/03 at 01:42:41 |
| Iraqi Teens Pummel Bloodied U.S. Soldiers By MARIAM FAM, Associated Press Writer MOSUL, Iraq - Iraqi teenagers dragged two bloodied U.S. soldiers from a wrecked vehicle and pummeled them with concrete blocks Sunday, witnesses said, describing the killings as a burst of savagery in a city once safe for Americans. AP Photo AP Photo Slideshow: Iraq U.S. Base Attacked, 3 Iraqis Killed in Tikrit (AP Video) Latest headlines: · Iraqi Teens Pummel Bloodied U.S. Soldiers AP - 56 minutes ago · Japan May Help by Air and Sea in Iraq - Papers Reuters - 1 hour, 23 minutes ago · Attack in N. Iraq Kills 2 Americans washingtonpost.com - 1 hour, 56 minutes ago Special Coverage Another soldier was killed by a bomb and a U.S.-allied police chief was assassinated. The U.S.-led coalition also said it grounded commercial flights after the military confirmed that a missile struck a DHL cargo plane that landed Saturday at Baghdad International Airport with its wing aflame. Nevertheless, American officers insisted they were making progress in bringing stability to Iraq (news - web sites), and the U.S.-appointed Governing Council named an ambassador to Washington — an Iraqi-American woman who spent the past decade lobbying U.S. lawmakers to promote democracy in her homeland. Witnesses to the Mosul attack said gunmen shot two soldiers driving through the city center, sending their vehicle crashing into a wall. The 101st Airborne Division said the soldiers were driving to another garrison. About a dozen swarming teenagers dragged the soldiers out of the wreckage and beat them with concrete blocks, the witnesses said. "They lifted a block and hit them with it on the face," said Younis Mahmoud, 19. It was unknown whether the soldiers were alive or dead when pulled from the wreckage. Initial reports said the soldiers' throats were cut. But another witness, teenager Bahaa Jassim, said the wounds appeared to have come from bullets. "One of the soldiers was shot under the chin and the bullet came out of his head. I saw the hole in his helmet. The other was shot in the throat," Jassim said. Some people looted the vehicle of weapons, CDs and a backpack, Jassim said. "They remained there for over an hour without the Americans knowing anything about it," he said. "I ... went and told other troops." Television footage showed the soldiers' bodies splayed on the ground as U.S. troops secured the area. One victim's foot appeared to have been severed. The frenzy recalled the October 1993 scene in Somalia, when locals dragged the bodies of Marines killed in fighting with warlords through the streets. In Baqouba, just north of Baghdad, insurgents detonated a roadside bomb as a 4th Infantry Division convoy passed, killing one soldier and wounding two others, the military said. In Baghdad, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt confirmed the Mosul deaths but refused to provide details. "We're not going to get ghoulish about it," he said. The savagery of the attack was unusual for Mosul, once touted as a success story in sharp contrast to the anti-American violence seen in Sunni Muslim areas north and west of Baghdad. In recent weeks, however, attacks against U.S. troops have increased in Mosul, raising concerns the insurgency is spreading. Simultaneously, attacks have accelerated against Iraqis considered to be supporting Americans — such as policemen and politicians working for the interim Iraqi administration. On Sunday, gunmen killed the Iraqi police chief of Latifiyah, 20 miles south of Baghdad, and his bodyguard and driver, American and Iraqi officials said. No further details were released. The assassination occurred one day after suicide bombers struck two police stations northeast of Baghdad within 30 minutes, killing at least 14 people. Gunmen on Saturday also killed an Iraqi police colonel protecting oil installations in Mosul. In Samara, about 75 miles north of Baghdad, Iraqi police said six U.S. Apache helicopter gunships blasted marshland after four rocket-propelled grenades were fired at the American military garrison at the city's northern end. One Iraqi passer-by was killed in the air attack, police said. In Kirkuk, 150 miles north of Baghdad, a bomb exploded at an oil compound, injuring three American civilian contractors from the U.S. firm Kellogg Brown & Root. The three suffered facial cuts from flying glass, U.S. Lt. Col. Matt Croke said. KBR, a subsidiary of Halliburton, also has a significant presence at Baghdad's Palestine Hotel, which was rocketed by insurgents Friday, wounding one civilian. "We all know that Americans are being threatened," Croke said. Kimmitt told reporters in Baghdad that witnesses saw two surface-to-air missiles fired Saturday at a cargo plane operated by the Belgium-based package service DHL as it left for Bahrain. The plane was the first civilian airliner hit by insurgents, who have shot down several military helicopters with shoulder-fired rockets. DHL and Royal Jordanian, the only commercial passenger airline flying into Baghdad, immediately suspended flights on orders of the coalition authority. Despite the ongoing violence, U.S. officials insisted the occupation was going well. "If you look at the accomplishments of the coalition since March of this year, it has been enormous," Marine Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in Tikrit. Pace is touring Afghanistan (news - web sites) and Iraq. Also Sunday, Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said veteran Washington lobbyist Rend Rahim Francke was appointed Iraq's ambassador to the United States. Francke, an Iraq native who has spent most of her life abroad, led the Iraq Foundation, a Washington-based pro-democracy group, and has helped plan Iraq's transition from Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s rule. The appointment will renew the diplomatic ties between Washington and Baghdad severed in 1990 when Saddam invaded Kuwait. cut&past from Yahoo |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| jannah |
| 11/24/03 at 01:55:29 |
| Inna lillah wa inna ilaihi rajeoon... concrete blocks?? astaghfiruallah that's just not right.. what is the point of that! why can't people fight honestly anymore.. sword to sword person to person, now we have brutal personal violence and massive inhumane actions like dropping bombs.. maybe a sociological study could answer why we have these sick times. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 11/24/03 at 08:55:35 |
| [slm] I pray that the Muslims are victorious and defeat and humiliate these enemies of Islam that have invaded Muslim lands. AMEEN AMEEN AMEEN |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| lucid9 |
| 11/24/03 at 10:26:46 |
| [slm] I think that noticably arrogant muslims who are noticably religious are more a threat to islam than any foreign power, no matter how wealthy and no matter how well armed. Because, such muslims drive others muslims away from Islam. Just look at what happened to East Pakistan after 1971. The noticably religious and noticably arrogant muslims helped the Pakistani troops slaughter and rape the East Pakistani population. This turned away from islam the whole generation that witnessed that and subsequent generations. Now, no islamic movement has even the most minute chance of ever becoming politcally dominant there. |
| 11/24/03 at 10:27:49 |
| lucid9 |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| tincanman |
| 11/24/03 at 12:57:34 |
| "I think that noticably arrogant muslims who are noticably religious are more a threat to islam than any foreign power," This is the excuse that traitors use to help the Kaffar invaders against Muslims. They see the Kaffar as their friends and the Islamists as their enemies. The Islamist groups in Bangladesh were against independents. The people who were pro independence were the Cow-Worshipers and those who wish to be Cow-Worshipers. They collaborated with the Cow Worshiping Indians against their Brothers in Islam. And the excuse they used was the one stated above. And this is what is used by the people who collaborate with the Israelis, and who collaborate with the Americans and collaborate with the Cow worshipers in Kashmir. The people who run Bangladesh now are the Nationalists. The Nationalists hate Islam; this is because Hinduism is the native religion of Bangladesh, not Islam. The ulimah hated the Nationalist and didn’t side with them in dividing Muslim land. The Nationalists say what you said on the bottom accusing the ulimah of turning people away from Islam by not collaborating with the Cow-Worshipers. Now if people in Bangladesh have turned away from Islam, this is the fault of the People not the ulimah for refusing to pander to the Traitors. India is Dar ul Harb, they fight and kill Muslims and desire to exterminate them, and these are the alias of the Bangladeshi Nationalists. Now in Iraq the noticeably religious people in Iraq are fighting to free themselves and the Land of Abu Hanifa from the clutches of the Zionists. You can also notice that the noticeably irreligious people are collaborating with the Zionists in their occupation of Iraq. What I have noticed is the religious people are always pro independence when it comes to Muslims fighting for independence against the Kaffar, like what is happening in Iraq and anti Independence when it comes to Muslims fighting to divide Muslim land like what happened when Bangladesh broke from Pakistan. And the people who are pro Independence when it comes to siding with the Hindu-Lovers to gain independence from their brothers are against what other brothers do in an effort to liberate themselves from occupation of the Kaffar. Funny that, has any one else noticed it? |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| Caraj |
| 11/24/03 at 13:20:18 |
| [quote author=jannah link=board=ummah;num=1069656161;start=0#1 date=11/24/03 at 01:55:29]Inna lillah wa inna ilaihi rajeoon... concrete blocks?? astaghfiruallah that's just not right.. what is the point of that! why can't people fight honestly anymore.. sword to sword person to person, now we have brutal personal violence and massive inhumane actions like dropping bombs.. maybe a sociological study could answer why we have these sick times. [/quote] I am totally disgusted with this whole war thing and saddened by it all. I can understand people not agreeing, I agree with jannah about why can't people fight honestly anymore. No matter how desperate a person is to pull unjured people from a vehical and slam their faces with concrete blocks, that takes a sick puppy in my opinion. Would the prophet condone this type of fighting? I mean it is one thing to shoot someone or take them prisoner but to take an already injured person and hit them with blocks??? Sounds more to me like they are emotionally sick and full of rage, not just fighting a war. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| tincanman |
| 11/24/03 at 14:12:11 |
| azziyah I could not disagree more. We are at war. I am sure if we had all the weapons the Americans had we would not need concrete blocks. We would be fighting their Jets with our Jets. We would be using our satellites to target our rockets from towards their cities and factories the way they do to us. But that is not the case. There are rules of war and America has made it clear that they will not be abiding by them when it comes to fighting Muslims. They have labeled the Muslims who fight them as illegal combatants, with no rights. This means that the Americans will be regarded as illegal combatants by the Muslims. We do not have a Gontanamo bay to keep prisoners in while we fain a trial to justify their executions. So for those two soldiers the trial, verdict and execution were done then and there. The soldiers choose to be in Iraq, they choose to join the army. So the consequences of war are of their choosing. The Iraqis did not choose to be on a war zoon. The war zoon came to them, because it was carried to them by people like the two mercenaries. The concrete block did not hit the heads of these soldiers in their fathers homes, the soldiers brought the heads to Iraq to hit the Concrete blocks. Now that the soldiers are facing what they have earned, they would be wishing that they hadn’t gone to Iraq. I wish the same. For the sake of the innocent Concrete block that has now been made unclean by people going to places where they shouldn’t have. Concrete blocks are very useful. For building houses and Schools. Now who will be willing to use this block? May Allah Grant them surveyor torments in the grave while they await what they have earned in their next life, Ameen! What difference does it make if lethal injection is used or a concrete block? Allahu Alim! Anyway, I hope the people who used the block had permission from its owner. Concrete blocks are very expensive. They cost nearly a pound each at Wick Because of the American invasion wages in Iraq have gone down to a dollar a day for a lot of people. So because of the two soldiers some one might have to build with less blocks then he had planed. May Allah grant him new better blocks, amen! |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| BroHanif |
| 11/24/03 at 16:13:36 |
| Salaams, Honesty in war now, who we gonna ask Bush and Blair? Hmm where are those WMD's I wonder. Every human being has a concious, and Brit and American soldiers should think to what they are serving in Iraq. Salaams Hanif |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| tincanman |
| 11/24/03 at 18:30:27 |
| Palestinian child shot dead by Israeli troops uploaded 24 Nov 2003 Jenin, A Palestinian boy was shot dead by Israeli troops during an army incursion yesterday in the northern West Bank city of Jenin, Palestinian medical sources said. Ibrahim Jalamna, 11, was killed when Israeli troops responded with live ammunition to stone-throwing during an incursion in the east of the city involving around 10 Israeli armoured vehicles and one bulldozer, the sources said. His death brought to 3,618 the total number of people killed since the start of the intifada in September 2000. Among them are 2,670 Palestinians and 852 Israelis, according to an AFP count. Source: AFP I think the Iraqi kids have shown blocks are more affective then stones against murderering Zionists firing guns. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| Caraj |
| 11/24/03 at 20:15:49 |
| tincanman, I am appauled by the satisfaction you seen to get by anothers suffering. My heart and my mind tell me THIS IS A WAR any death on either side is a tragic, awful and painful It is not a football game nor a soccer or cricket game to root and cheer for ones favorite team. Do you think the Prophet rejoiced in death and murder? Do you think the Prophet rejoiced in cruelty and torture? I don't think so. When one rejoices in any murder, death or cruelty I pity them as I know GOD/ALLAH ALMIGHTY is the only one to judge a person. When one likes to rejoice, justify or make jokes or light of such things I have but one thing to say FEAR ALLAH |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 11/24/03 at 21:14:22 |
| [slm] What wasn't fair about this? ??? That was perfectly fair. I can imagine some dude fired a projectile hit the vehicle some Americans were in and then those soldiers tried to get out with their guns, and some very heroic young boys around there finished the job. I don't see anything wrong with it at all. Those boys are heros and I would kiss them and tell them how proud I am of them. I pray that Allah (SWT) grants the Muslims a speedy victory, defeats the enemies of Islam and that no more Muslim lives are lost. AMEEN. [quote] Honesty in war now, who we gonna ask Bush and Blair? Hmm where are those WMD's I wonder. Every human being has a concious, and Brit and American soldiers should think to what they are serving in Iraq. [/quote] Bro Hanif said it much more eloquently then what I'm about to say, the really sick freaks are the British and American soldiers that have gone to a Muslim land to steal oil from the Muslims, use nuclear weapons (depleted uranium shells) and kill innocent Muslims. What a bunch of cowards and losers. These are the real terrorists. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| timbuktu |
| 11/24/03 at 21:25:49 |
| [slm] brother hyper, i was in east pakistan when the AL declared independence, & my family had lived there from 1966 to 1971. Some brothers before & after that. all i will say is that it was not as your post suggests. i agree with sisters jannah & azizah, if the US soldiers had been dragged out dead. but if they were alive, then there are other possibilities to consider: 1.) would it have been possible to take them as prisoners? In that case, killing them by hitting with concrete blocks is not right. They were already out of action. 2.} if it were not possible, or if they still posed a threat, then killing by whatever means is justified. but mutilation is not. |
| 11/24/03 at 21:35:46 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| WhiteSomali |
| 11/24/03 at 21:58:00 |
| [slm] [QUOTE] I pray that the Muslims are victorious and defeat and humiliate these enemies of Islam that have invaded Muslim lands. AMEEN AMEEN AMEEN [/QUOTE] Ameen brother. [QUOTE] My heart and my mind tell me THIS IS A WAR any death on either side is a tragic, awful and painful It is not a football game nor a soccer or cricket game to root and cheer for ones favorite team. Do you think the Prophet rejoiced in death and murder? Do you think the Prophet rejoiced in cruelty and torture? I don't think so. When one rejoices in any murder, death or cruelty I pity them as I know GOD/ALLAH ALMIGHTY is the only one to judge a person. When one likes to rejoice, justify or make jokes or light of such things I have but one thing to say FEAR ALLAH [/QUOTE] Killing an ENEMY soldier is not murder, it's war. Let's remember who started this war too. Let's remember who's occupying a country they have no business being in. We rejoice when US soldiers are killed because they're trying to screw over a Muslim country, and every one of them that dies is getting nothing but what they asked for. [QUOTE] "I think that noticably arrogant muslims who are noticably religious are more a threat to islam than any foreign power," [/QUOTE] I don't think the Muslims fighting US soldiers are arrogant. What makes you think the US soldiers are our friends and not our enemies? Or that they're civilians and not occupiers? [QUOTE] azziyah I could not disagree more. We are at war. I am sure if we had all the weapons the Americans had we would not need concrete blocks.[/QUOTE] I was going to say the same thing. You beat me to it. I have absolutely no sympathy to the US troops that were killed in Iraq. If they weren't ready for the possibility of being killed, they shouldn't have signed up for the military. [slm] |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| ltcorpest2 |
| 11/24/03 at 22:51:33 |
| sounds like a nice group of thoughtful people here, |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| Caraj |
| 11/24/03 at 22:58:46 |
| [quote author=Ahmad link=board=ummah;num=1069656161;start=10#12 date=11/24/03 at 21:58:00] [slm] Killing an ENEMY soldier is not murder, it's war. Let's remember who started this war too. Let's remember who's occupying a country they have no business being in. We rejoice when US soldiers are killed because they're trying to screw over a Muslim country, and every one of them that dies is getting nothing but what they asked for. I don't think the Muslims fighting US soldiers are arrogant. What makes you think the US soldiers are our friends and not our enemies? Or that they're civilians and not occupiers? I was going to say the same thing. You beat me to it. I have absolutely no sympathy to the US troops that were killed in Iraq. If they weren't ready for the possibility of being killed, they shouldn't have signed up for the military. [slm][/quote] I did not post to start a whose right and whose wrong. I still stand by what my post said. I find it a great loss, tragic that ANYONE from ANY SIDE dies. I am not taking sides, Mr. Bush had not shown me personally any documentation for his actions nor has made hard firm evidence public in my opinion. However hopefully you will find some comfort to know that even though you may not agree with me, my family also does not agree with me cause I am not pro war and pro bush (the older people in my family) I also mentioned, murder, torture, etc, I never made mention to brave or not brave or friend vs enemy I never mentioned sympathy by association. My heart tells me any death, for any reason is ashame. If you think I am wrong by wishing all would get along and any death for any reason is sad, then you'll have to take this one up with God as he was the one who made my heart. And as timbuktu mentions, is mutilation justified? I think not no matter who it is. You all can disagree with me if you wish, But if you read my post it is not a brave vs not brave american vs Iraqi enemy vs friend I simply said I did not think any death, murder or torture is something to be joyous over. This is my heart, this is how I feel, what is there to disagree with??? If an american was rejoicing over a Muslim or Iraqi death I would be sad and not happy about that either and many I know are mad at me as I have done JUST THAT, was sadden by their death too. The night we went to war I could not help but be sad and cry as my heart went out to both the Iraqis and the Americans involved. I'm outta here and out of this post. Like I said,,,,,,, got a problem with my heart......take it up with the Almighty It is one thing to take sides and have an opinion to me it is another side to take joy in anothers suffering. NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE |
| 11/24/03 at 23:02:10 |
| Caraj |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| Nomi |
| 11/24/03 at 23:20:09 |
| [slm] First i thought i would simply ask the mods to lock this thread (at least not during eid guys!!) But then i couldn't resist posting what i was gonna post yesteday right after sis Jannah's post! Two iraqi boys set out to find food for their family, one of them lost his innocent father and brother in this war coz of some intelligent cruise missile and the other lost his house and his family is now living under the SKY! At least they had their family intact before the war, so now they are mad at these chickens with the big guns. Now they are out with weapons??? NO they would be shot instantly if they do. Are they out with knives??? NO coz the chickens have got GPS, heat sensors, metal detectors (maybe) and what not attached to their guns so no one can carry a knife and besides if they carry one and checked by the chickens then prison is guaranteed for them. So they are SIMPLY unarmed and see some bleeding armymen who slaughtered MANY of their countrymen for NOTHING! Should they let them go??? for what? so that they heal and butcher more innocent iraqis, DISHONOR more iraqi sisters?? SO they decided to kill them "nip the evil in the bud". How do they kill them? One of them should go get some knife? i dont think so coz time is short as the apache helicopter is on its way to pick them chickens. So should these boys strangle them? probly strangling someone involves lotsa pain, the only efficient way "to them" maybe is to get a big concrete rock and finish those who butchered their relatives and countrymen for nothing! Had these chickens not invaded their country and not butchered innocent iraqis, these boys would never have done so but they just couldn't let them get away only to come back and butcher more iraqis. To them it was right, to me it is right. and in the end i would like to add that i really respect ALL of you on here, mike, azizah, sis jannah, hyper and everyone. Love for peace lovers inshaAllah. being IN war is different my respected brothers and sisters, its really really different! [slm] Your brother. |
| 11/24/03 at 23:22:57 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| Caraj |
| 11/25/03 at 00:51:06 |
| I second Nomi's request for locking this thread Please jannah |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 11/25/03 at 01:46:59 |
| [slm] When i think about this fairness comment I think about the millions of IRaqi men and women killed because of sanctions by the US. I think of the megaton bombs dropped on civillians. I think of the thousands of Muslims lives lost by the US dropping their nuclear weapons and other bombs on Muslims. I think about Madeline Albrights statement saying it was worth it to kill 500,000 children in Iraq. I remember the pictures of the babies born with deformities due to US depleted uranium shells. Where was the call for fairness then? ??? Why weren't people speaking out against these attrocities committed by the US killing machine. Throwing a block, which is just a little bigger then a rock, at someone to kill them is not mutiliation. Regarding mutiliation, bro. Timbuktu, what you said is generally correct, but there is an exception among some of the scholars. Among the sayings of scholars on the permissibility of taking revenge: Ibn Taimiyyah said: "it is their right to mutilate. So it is their right to do it in revenge and payback in the same coins, OR they may waive it, but patience is better. This is in a case where the mutilation does not lead to a gain in the Jihad, and it is not for an equal treatment from them (the enemies); But when Mutilating them will lead to their accepting the faith or warn them against another aggression, then, it is - in this case - part of recommended Jihad and retribution." (This was quoted by Ibn Muflih in Alfuru' vol.6 p.218') ;============================== But like I said I don't believe there was mutiliation here. Regarding what someone's heart feels, everyone has feelings, this doesn't mean that those feelings are right and they may very well be wrong, ultimately we have to refer it back to what Allah (SWT) and what the Prophet (SAW) and the Companions (ra) did and how the scholars have ruled on such matters. Much love for my Muslim brothers and sisters, may Allah (SWT) help us, and grant the Muslims a speedy victory. |
| 11/25/03 at 01:48:27 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| Caraj |
| 11/25/03 at 02:14:06 |
| bhaloo, maybe I'm missing something here (I mean after all I am getting old ;D ) but I just read over all the post and I don't see where someone mentions 'FAIR' besides, is there truly anything FAIR in war? Some do not agree and think the concerte block was not right. Some think it was great. No one is saying what is and is not fair. We just have an idea in our hearts what is wrong and what is right. Tell you what, these last couple years I don't feel I can win for losing. I am honest with my family that I don't agree with all of bush's ideas and how I am worried and concerned my country is playing the worlds policeman. I defend Muslims and Islam on boards and in chat when 'the worse example of my country' is acting with vile and hatred. And then I am called anti american, un patriotic, names I cannot repeat here, a traitor, someone who needs to leave the country or be killed and the most disgusting names you can imagine. Then on these boards (thank you jannah you have rules) I get the, how it is ok for someone to go out of their way to be cruel. geeeeeeesh I believe in my heart 2 wrongs do not make a right All life given to us by GOD (one GOD) is precious and a gift I am saddened by the hatred on both ends I am saddened by the killing, murder or whatever anyone wants to call it to justify their cause/reason or whatever. Just seems I cannot win for losing but I know my heart and I know what I feel is right and what is wrong. |
| 11/25/03 at 02:17:00 |
| Caraj |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 11/25/03 at 02:30:22 |
| There is no need for you to get emotional and bring your own personal problems that you are going through with your family into this. Look at it from a logical point of view please, because looking at things emotionally will just make you upset and not achieve anything. Caraj, it doesn't matter to me what you think is right or wrong I look at what Islam says. There are conditions under which Muslims are ALLOWED to kill others, such as times of war when the invaders have invaded Muslim lands, such as we see in the world today. The Muslims are defending their land from these invaders (in fact in the news the US has referred to themselves as occupiers). You may see this as "2 wrongs don't make a right" but that is not what Islam says. And the only thing I'm interested in, is what Islam says. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| Caraj |
| 11/25/03 at 02:45:20 |
| bhaloo you can really be quite mean at times, I was not bringing up my personal problems, I simply mentioned what I did to show everyone thinks they are right, and besides it is not just my family who doesn't agree with me. I mentioned in that above post I have been called all sorts of things defending Muslims and Islam. As for emotional, I believe all the post in this thread contains quite a bit of emotion. I'll back off and leave this be. It is getting really unproductive at this point. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| jannah |
| 11/25/03 at 03:07:38 |
| [slm] No matter what the injustices are that other people put Muslims through, WE are not justified in returning the same to them. We are people of Allah who follow HIS laws not our own. We show justice to others even though they show no justice to us. We respect human life even though others do not. We follow the rules of war and convention even though others do not. We do NOT believe in the axiom 'the ends justify the means" or "the reasons justify the actions". That is the main point. Now it comes down to... is it allowed to "kill soldiers with bricks"? under what conditions? war, occupation? does the situation of today follow those conditions? what were the circumstances surrounding this event? were they dead, not dead? what were they doing in that area? was that a combat zone? and keeping mind all of the specifics does that change the general rulings? So first, we do not have complete information on this event. We only have the little that has been gleaned by some media. Two, we are not scholars to make the fatwa and rulings which have to take into account the specifics of this. Therefore let's agree that this war is indeed tragic and please definitely do something more productive to maybe help stop it instead of making armchair comments on it. . |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| Nomi |
| 11/25/03 at 04:00:38 |
[quote author=azizah link=board=ummah;num=1069656161;start=20#20 date=11/25/03 at 02:45:20]bhaloo you can really be quite mean at times, [/quote] Please friends, lets get over it. Sis Cara was just expressing her views and bro Arshad was just explaining the priority of things! Please don't think that anyone was being mean! Why is it happening during Eid!? Can we please make peace? Didn't you guys get any eidi this time ? :P as a sister once said..................................... CHILLAX GUYS |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| timbuktu |
| 11/25/03 at 05:22:49 |
| [slm][quote author=jannah link=board=ummah;num=1069656161;start=20#21 date=11/25/03 at 03:07:38]No matter what the injustices are that other people put Muslims through, WE are not justified in returning the same to them. We are people of Allah who follow HIS laws not our own. We show justice to others even though they show no justice to us. We respect human life even though others do not. We follow the rules of war and convention even though others do not. We do NOT believe in the axiom 'the ends justify the means" or "the reasons justify the actions". That is the main point. [/quote] couldn't agree more. & i guess most of our problems stem from lack of this realization. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| ltcorpest2 |
| 11/25/03 at 13:28:50 |
| But when Mutilating them will lead to their accepting the faith or warn them against another aggression, then, it is - in this case - part of recommended Jihad and retribution." (This was quoted by Ibn Muflih in Alfuru' vol.6 p.218') EDITED BY ADMIN FOR INSULTING A GREAT SCHOLAR!!!!! Do you really believe that it is ok to mutiliate in order to lead me to islam? If it is not why was this posted? And if this offends some muslims for me asking my apoligies for not asking it in a kinder way. It was also posted a while back by bhaloo from some imam that it is required for muslims to bring the fight to other nations so that we may accept islam. From what i am gathering (and certainly not from most of the muslims i have met here) there are many muslims that think that killing us (non muslims) can be done just about anytime. There have been some very strange postings on this thread for sure. Bhaloo , i am looking at it logically and so is Caraj. I do not think you can take pot shots at people that you do not agree with and tell them what frame of reference to look at. Posted by: Nomi Posted on: Today at 4:00am on Today at 2:45am, azizah wrote:bhaloo you can really be quite mean at times, Please friends, lets get over it. Sis Cara was just expressing her views and bro Arshad was just explaining the priority of things! Please don't think that anyone was being mean! What priority is arshad looking at? For soemone to bring up a post about the justification of mutilation. Maybe someone needs to change priorities. |
| 11/25/03 at 19:44:55 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| Maliha |
| 11/25/03 at 14:50:55 |
| [slm] Eid Mubarak y'all.. To all you armchair activists, chilling in your AC Rooms, full from over Feasting on ya meals, bloated from your self righteous realms..Eid Mubarak. To all the suffering Muslims around the world, dying, starving, eating the dust of their existence..Eid Mubarak. To all the dead Muslims, *mutilated* beyond repair..to the Bosnian women, who were slaughtered open and fed filthy pig entrails, to all the kashmiri women raped to date, to all the chechens, iraqis, philistinies, fillipinos..to all the dying multitudes..Eid Mubarak to you too. We will save a minute of silence to belch while remembering your deaths and dying ones. To all the american soldiers, blindly killing and being killed for no rhyme or reason...to all the tyrants heading the world, to all the lazy worshippers, to all the apathetic hearts, to all the dead ones walking, to all the heartles ones, to all the empty voids soulless lives outsurviving the stench of their deaths..to all the corrupt ones, the insane ones, the bleeding ones, the silent majority lending their fruitless support, the loud minority forcefeeding opinions into each other's throats..to all the screamers, the weepers, the slackers, the keepers, the procrastinators, the sleepers... another Eid has come and will go, as cycles proceed we will all die, whether in the warm comforts of our luxurious beds, or out in the fields dying for a cause. To all the self righteous, don't pass a judgement when one will be passed over your soul...don't criticize when you will be criticized, don't account for someone's life, when yours will be..don't let your heart die, before the day no one will accept its cries... to the world, Eid Mubarak...wake up before you are eyes are forced wide shut. Struggling sis in a world of madness >:(, Maliha [wlm] |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| ltcorpest2 |
| 11/25/03 at 15:02:36 |
| maliha, what a great post. I think you have the best writing skills around. mike eid mubarak to you also! ps Was i the slacker though? oopps i think i was the loud minority |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 11/25/03 at 20:15:32 |
| [slm] [quote author=jannah link=board=ummah;num=1069656161;start=20#21 date=11/25/03 at 03:07:38]Now it comes down to... is it allowed to "kill soldiers with bricks"? under what conditions? war, occupation? does the situation of today follow those conditions? what were the circumstances surrounding this event? were they dead, not dead? what were they doing in that area? was that a combat zone? and keeping mind all of the specifics does that change the general rulings? So first, we do not have complete information on this event. We only have the little that has been gleaned by some media. Two, we are not scholars to make the fatwa and rulings which have to take into account the specifics of this. [/quote] You say this, but earlier you said this: [quote] concrete blocks?? astaghfiruallah that's just not right.. what is the point of that! [/quote] That is what first made me upset. You made a judgement on these Muslims (saying that its not right) without knowing the facts. And especially in the situation that they are in, fighting against the enemies of Islam, fighting in a war. I can not even begin to imagine the pain and suffering they are going through and the hardships they are facing. The Muslim people should have all our support and prayers at the very minimum. Does anyone really need to ask for a fatawa is it permissible to fight with stones against an enemy that has guns and bombs and planes? ??? Let's be real here. As for you Cara, you accuse me of being mean, but you are the one that is mean attacking my brothers in Islam, to quote you "they are emotionally sick and full of rage". Mike quit twisting my words, and slandering me, but thanks for the sadaqah you've provided, insha'Allah. [quote] Therefore let's agree that this war is indeed tragic and please definitely do something more productive to maybe help stop it instead of making armchair comments on it. [/quote] I already did in this thread and I'll do it again: I pray that ALlah (SWT) grants the Muslims victory, defeats the enemies of Islam, humiliates them and ends the oppression that the Muslims are facing. AMEEN AMEEN AMEEN |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| tincanman |
| 11/26/03 at 10:32:17 |
| Azizya you are appalled that I get satisfaction that two of the enemies of Allah entered Jahanum in their efforts to exterminate believers? I am appalled that you do not get satisfaction from that? I would assume you would be feeling safer knowing that there are two less murderers about? Did the prophet rejoice at murder? No! but this was not murder, it was self defense and the defense of others! He didn’t cry tears for people like Abu Jahl when they were sent to hell where they belong at the Battle of Badr, even though people like that were his own kin folk. The battle of Badr and the deaths of the chiefs of Quraysh were seen as a great victory. And what the boys did in Iraq is a victory in these days when victories are rare and far apart. This was not cruelty it is the end of cruelty committed by two evil people. This is not torture, what is torture is allowing the two to stay alive and continue torturing believers after they recover. When one does not rejoice at victory, but instead cries crocodile tears for the enemies of Allah I pity them. No wonder Allah grants us so few victories these days. People show so little gratefulness when he does!!! Allah is the one and only judge and Allah has judged what to do to the Kaffar who invade our lands, Fight them where ever you find them. Now are we going to feel proud of our young heroes for obeying their lord at times when we are too cowardly to? So fear Allah and do not speak badly about the only people in the ummah who are willing to do what it takes to end torture, rape, oppression and kufr. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| tincanman |
| 11/26/03 at 11:35:25 |
| Page two replies: Mike aka “sounds like a nice group of thoughtful people here,” Yes, I agree, the boys with the blocks do sound like a bunch of nice young men. That’s why I posted the article. Aziziyah Even if he had “evidence”, him and his mercenaries will still be enemies. And it will still be Farrad to fight them. The only reason why they don’t want Iraq to have Nukes is they don’t want Muslims to have them. So they can Nuke us when ever they want with us nuking back. “my family also does not agree” Are you a revert? War is killing. When there are people with Guns, imposing rules that people do not want. Then removing this situation involves killing. End of oppression means killing in such numbers that the oppressors can not afford. The deaths of American soldiers mean there are things happening that may lead to an end of oppression. For the oppressed it is good news and promises of liberation. Why do you refer to the murdering mercenaries in Iraq as “we”? The Muslim ummah is one body and one people. “We” for you is the boys with the blocks, not the cowards with the Guns. Bush and his mercenaries are “them”, what have they got to do with you? You didn’t tell Bush or his mercenaries to do what they are doing? And they wouldn’t listen to you if you tell them to stop. When I hear Muslims using the word “we” to describe the politicians, It kind of makes me think about the old movies where a black slaves uses the word “we” to describe the “Master”. This war is Bush’s war and the War of his gang of Zionists. Not your war, they wouldn’t let you within a mile of where these guys made the decision, let alone take part in the choice to go to war. Nomi, Nice story. I have my own theory about what happened. Two Jewish Zionist Americans were in their Hamvi trying to find a Kosher restaurant. But they started arguing about which is more Kosher the K symbol of the U symbol. The argument got so intense that they shot each other. There was a nearby group of kids who came to the rescue. They pulled the two out of the Hamvi to administer first aid. The problem was it was close to Eid and the kids needed to keep their cloths clean. They don’t have other cloths because of the way the Americans had ruined the Iraqi Economy. In order not to make their clothes unclean the kids decided to administer CPR with concrete blocks. When it looked like the Americans had not savvied their Kosher argument the kids gave up. But the man who owned the blocks shouted at them and told them to pay for the blocks. The boys thought for a bit and realized unlike Saddam Husains Iraq, Americans have to pay for medical treatment. So the kids took some stuff out of the Hamvi as a fee for the treatment administered to the soldiers. And they used the fee to pay for the bricks. Now when the Zionist hate mongering media heard about this they twisted it. They mentioned the actions that happened, but refused to mention that it was due to a argument and the administration of CPR. But, Allahu alim, I wasn’t there and neither were any of you? Aizizah Being called Anti-American is a very big complement. America is a land built on the blood of the red man and the sweet of the Black. So being Anti-American is a complement. Unpatriotic is another complement. It means you can decide for yourself whether something is right or wrong instead obeying the whims of the rulers. They might tell you to leave the country, and you can tell them the same thing. So what? The thing is they have been telling the Redman to leave the country ever since colombus landed. They have enslaved the black man, took them from their homes and their history, and now tell them to leave when ever the blacks want rights or disagree with the politicians. Being American means swearing at who ever disagrees with you, killing who ever thinks differently and expelling anyone who is different. Their words tell us that this is not what American means, but actions speak loader then words. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| tincanman |
| 11/26/03 at 11:52:22 |
| Jannah Is it farad to kill with a brick? Jannah you don’t need to be a scholar to know it’s lawful to use a brick? And you don’t need to ask a Scholar for a fatwa for each weapon you might decide to use. It is Jihad. It is farad to kill the enemy. You don’t need a scholar to know that. What you should ask scholars about is, is it lawful for you not to fight the Americans at this time? Is it lawful for you not to sabotage America’s economy while you live in America knowing that it is the American economy that pays for their war against us. Is it lawful for you to pay your taxes knowing that they buy bullets that kill your brothers? The only issue about the incident that may have a question mark on it as far as I am concerned is, did they pay for the concrete blocks? You might think that it is a petty question, but all the attacks on the kids have been very petty compared to the evil of refusing to fight when it is farad to do so. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| jannah |
| 11/26/03 at 15:07:58 |
| [wlm] tincanman you can do whatever you want. but if you want to follow the laws of Islam you find out what is right to do from Quran and Sunnah and you don't make up your own laws and guidelines. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| ltcorpest2 |
| 11/26/03 at 18:43:20 |
| Posted by: mike aka ltcorpest2 Posted on: Nov 25th, 2003, 1:28pm But when Mutilating them will lead to their accepting the faith or warn them against another aggression, then, it is - in this case - part of recommended Jihad and retribution." (This was quoted by Ibn Muflih in Alfuru' vol.6 p.218') EDITED BY ADMIN FOR INSULTING A GREAT SCHOLAR!!!!! my apologies, i did not know he was (or is?) a great scholar. Is he from our time or from earlier? The vol 6 p 218 , what book is that from? and one more question: I look at something like that and think that it is sick twisted and perverted. Would the average muslim think this also or would they think he has a point? also to all the american muslims have a great thanksgiving!! to those who celebrate it, for those who don't you can ignore the comment. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| UmmWafi |
| 11/27/03 at 11:21:31 |
| [slm] I believe, and I am very sure that most of you also believe, that things happened for a reason. Sometimes the reasons are clear but sometimes they elude us. In one of the most famous stories about the sahabahs, Umar RA held a most hated enemy at swordpoint but he withdrew at the last minute and did not kill him because he was afraid that if he killed the enemy, it wouldnt be because of Allah but because of his nafs. Subhanallah, Subhanallah, Subhanallah. We are so very lucky that we have these examples to guide us. So, ask ourselves, of all our actions and of all the words written on this board, how often were they expressed "lillahi ta'ala" and how often were they expressed from nafs ? Eid is a day we celebrate triumph, the triumph of a month-long struggle against our nafs.let us not stop on 1st Syawal. Inshaa Allah, we pray for hikmah so that we will always have "lillahi ta'ala" as the basis for all our thoughts, words and deeds, and not nafs. Wassalam. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| gharib |
| 11/27/03 at 12:34:04 |
| [slm], Eid mubarak to all, Be very careful about all the news you read. As an update on the story from; http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/24/international/24CND-IRAQ.html?hp Unfortunately, as usual, people will only remember what they are fed by the pre-digested media (Faux News ...etc) U.S. Retracts Report of G.I.'s Being Mutilated ..... A military official here, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that the two soldiers had died of gunshot wounds to the head and that their bodies had been pulled by Iraqis from their car and robbed of their personal belongings. The military official said that contrary to some reports, the men had not been beaten by rocks or mutilated in any way. ...... The military official said that while an initial military report had said that the men's throats had been cut, further investigation revealed no evidence of such wounds. The military official said that the men had been pulled from the car, presumably to make it easier for Iraqis to rifle through the men's clothing and steal their possessions. The men were robbed of their personal belongings, the official said, including their guns. But they were not dragged through the streets, the official said..... .....Another mystery was the initial reports about the men having their throats cut. The official could offer no explanation for that. ......... |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| tincanman |
| 11/27/03 at 17:43:25 |
| As I said. The kids pulled them out the Hamve to help them after they shoot each other over a arguement about kosher symbols. But the evil Zionist media still calls the fact that the kids took a fee from them as stealing. American hospitals charge fees, why doesnt any one call that stealing? |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| timbuktu |
| 11/27/03 at 18:10:35 |
| [quote author=UmmWafi link=board=ummah;num=1069656161;start=30#33 date=11/27/03 at 11:21:31]In one of the most famous stories about the sahabahs, Umar RA held a most hated enemy at swordpoint but he withdrew at the last minute and did not kill him because he was afraid that if he killed the enemy, it wouldnt be because of Allah but because of his nafs. Subhanallah, Subhanallah, Subhanallah[/quote] sis, i think this happened with Ali (RA) & not Umar (RA), & it was a dagger, not a sword. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| timbuktu |
| 11/27/03 at 18:37:45 |
| [quote author=mike aka ltcorpest2 link=board=ummah;num=1069656161;start=30#32 date=11/26/03 at 18:43:20] ......... (This was quoted by Ibn Muflih in Alfuru' vol.6 p.218') EDITED BY ADMIN FOR INSULTING A GREAT SCHOLAR!!!!! my apologies, i did not know he was (or is?) a great scholar. Is he from our time or from earlier? The vol 6 p 218 , what book is that from? and one more question: I look at something like that and think that it is sick twisted and perverted. Would the average muslim think this also or would they think he has a point?[/quote] mike, have a nice thanksgiving. what do you give thanks for, & why particularly at this time of year? i believe the scholar in question was ibne Tammiyya. He was indeed a great scholar, who organised people & fought off the Tatars when they invaded Syria. but this opinion does not sound like his. if it refers to "Ibn Muflih", the name sounds familiar, but i haven't read him. That would be because i am not a scholar. He was also probably in the past. the book is already mentioned: Alfuru' one bit you should also remember is that many in the past have added or ascribed comments or sayings to famous people. Sometimes, whole books have been written & wrongly ascribed to scholars whose concepts & ideas were opposite. So, we take information from scholars who know & have researched on such matters. The average muslim is appalled by mutilation, & is not happy about death or misfortune of anyone, but for a very long time muslims have sufferred the ignonimity of colonialism, & the world is now run through a hidden colonial startegy, with native faces but agenda of the West. no one likes that, & the anger sometimes shows itself. & since there is no compulsion in Islam, mutilation cannot bring anyone to true islam, so the argument for is not valid. ibne Taimmiyya was a great scholar & mujahid, & i have read translations of some of his books. He does not come out as someone who would go againt the Quran & Sunnah. That is why i suspect this comment was put in by someone who wanted to discredit ibne Taimmiya. |
| 11/28/03 at 06:30:40 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 11/28/03 at 02:25:58 |
| [slm] [quote] sis, i think this happened with Ali (RA) & not Umar (RA), & it was a dagger, not a sword. [/quote] Yes it was Ali (ra), but I can't find the isnad for it, but its mentioned here in this article: http://www.islamonline.net/English/Science/2002/09/article05.shtml Caliph Ali was once fighting in a war imposed on Muslims, and the chief of the Unbelievers confronted him. During the fight, Ali was able to overcome his opponent. Ali was about to kill him when he, suddenly aware of his fate, spit on Ali’s face. Ali immediately got up and left him alone. The man went running after Ali and asked, "You had a chance to kill me as I was defeated; why did you not use your sword?" Ali said, "I have no personal animosity towards you. I was fighting you because of your disbelief, on behalf of God. If I had killed you after you spat on my face, then it would have become my personal revenge which I do not wish to take." That Unbeliever chief became a Muslim immediately. [quote author=timbuktu link=board=ummah;num=1069656161;start=30#37 date=11/27/03 at 18:37:45] That is why i suspect this comment was put in by someone who wanted to discredit ibne Taimmiya.[/quote] The information was related by Sheikh Munajjid of islam-qa.com. I was going to start a thread some time back on the greatness of sheikh ul Islam Ibn Tamiyyah and the responses to those that falsely attack him and the stories made up about him. |
| 11/28/03 at 02:26:38 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| tincanman |
| 11/28/03 at 06:39:15 |
| Shaik ul ISlam ibn taymiah was most famous because he continued the fight against the Tartar when a lot of others had abandoned it. The grand children of the Khan had embraced Islam so a lot of people said the Jihad had ended as Muslim land was no longer occupied by Kaffar. But the shaik said, they still rule by the Yasik(laws made by the khan) so The Jihad against them has not ended until they Rule purely by What Allah has revealed. Ibn Taymiah was never married, a lot of brother wish that they had followed his example soon after getting married. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| ltcorpest2 |
| 11/28/03 at 10:20:52 |
| thanks Timbiktu for your response. as to your questions of giving thanks , i will answer the 2nd part 1st. The reason for giving thanks at this time is tradtition. It is tradtidtionally the end of the harvest time and people give thanks to God for their harvest. The Puritans had come to the Americas to find personal and religious freedom like many of us who came later did and thanksgiving is in memeory of that 1st year they were here. Since my family suffered from both i feel it is especially important to me. Now the reasons I am thankful are in no particular order and certainly not al inclusive: I am thankful for my wife and all that she means to me. My 2 boys especially due to the fact of all we had 7 years of infertility i feel trully blessed to have the cutest boys on the medina. I am thankful for my parents who are no longer here on earth, but who have given me my foundation of living and the wisdom and character they had and the perseverence to raise 5 boys in a very small house and the sacrifices they made for me. I am thankful for the oppurtunity to be in the United States. (my family is from lithuania and my parents lived in a displaced persons camp in germany for 2 years after having to walk across lithuania and poland and my grandparents ended up dying in siberia because they wee not able to get out.) I am thankful for my employer and the oppurtunities he has given me. I am very thankful for a great group of friends that i can support emotionally and give them support as well. I am thankful i live in califoria and the beautiful places God has created here and the oppurtunities to have visited them ie: Yosemite, Sequoia, monterey peninsula, trinity alps and heck even the rock hills of chatsworth. I am thankful for the oppurtunity to get to know many muslims on here and the many things i have learned here. I am thankful for so many of the small things (and some bigger) that have shown me that God is in control of my life. I am thankful that i broke 80 this year even with a limited time of playing with 2 small kids. That is a partial list and it somewhat ignored the religious aspect of why i am thankful but i didn't think it appropriate to list those here since I am on a muslim webstie , but suffice it to say that I am extremely thnakful to the creator of the universe to all he has given me and without God there would be nothing to be thankful for. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| tincanman |
| 11/28/03 at 17:33:24 |
| mike ? You're 80 and you play with your kids? they must be in their 50's? |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| ltcorpest2 |
| 11/28/03 at 18:47:06 |
| that is pretty good tincan, took a while and had to read my post again to figure why you said that. I guess some here would not be able to figure what that statement means. Now that I think about it most probably do not. I will buy someone a drink, lets say an Arnold Palmer, to the one that knows. there is a hint in there somewhere. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| ltcorpest2 |
| 11/28/03 at 18:48:08 |
| that also might lightne up the mood in this post |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| timbuktu |
| 11/28/03 at 20:47:17 |
| [slm] [quote author=tincanman link=board=ummah;num=1069656161;start=30#39 date=11/28/03 at 06:39:15]Ibn Taymiah was never married, a lot of brother wish that they had followed his example soon after getting married.[/quote] but brother, marriage is also jihad. :) & remember what the prophet [saw] said, something like: marriage is my sunnah, & whoever turns away from my sunnah, is not from us (muslims). & frankly, i have been lucky in my wife, although i keep complaining to her about her shortcomings, she truly is wonderful. & i think all wives are, for having to put up with us. [quote author=mike aka ltcorpest2 link=board=ummah;num=1069656161;start=40#40 date=11/28/03 at 10:20:52] ...... (my family is from lithuania and my parents lived in a displaced persons camp in germany for 2 years after having to walk across lithuania and poland and my grandparents ended up dying in siberia because they were not able to get out.) ...... I am thankful i live in california..... ...... God is in control of my life.... I am thankful that i broke 80 this year even with a limited time of playing with 2 small kids.[/quote] well mike, that was very informative & sad about your grandparents & parents' suffering. If it doesn't bring you pain, can you tell us more about lithuania, & your grandparents & parents? ah California, well i always wanted to go & study there, but whatever has happened has been for the better. & if someone recognizes that God in control, that is the greteast Truth he has found. & to be thankful to God all the time, is a blessing from HIM. about you breaking 80, does it refer to your baseball score while playing with your kids. i know nothing about baseball, btw. just a guess i have hazarded. |
| 11/28/03 at 21:31:31 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| Doha_03 |
| 11/28/03 at 22:48:11 |
| [slm] Posted by: mike aka ltcorpest2 that is pretty good tincan, took a while and had to read my post again to figure why you said that. I guess some here would not be able to figure what that statement means. Now that I think about it most probably do not. I will buy someone a drink, lets say an Arnold Palmer, to the one that knows. there is a hint in there somewhere. Ummmmm.............. It has to do with golf doesn't it? I now breaking 80 is like a golf term and Arnold Palmer has to do with golf too, right? If I am right, how about a nice, cool []. Hehehe. Wasalaam Doha :-) |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| ltcorpest2 |
| 11/29/03 at 00:52:06 |
| wtg doha. Arnold palmer drank ice tea and lemonade combined also know as a Arnold Palmer. |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| Doha_03 |
| 11/29/03 at 01:22:30 |
| [slm] Cool, I learned something new today. 8) But iced tea and lemonade combined? :( I don't know if I would go for that. Wasalaam Doha :-) |
| 11/29/03 at 02:00:54 |
| Doha_03 |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| timbuktu |
| 11/29/03 at 10:20:02 |
| [slm] i always knew that the female of the species is brainier than the male. my hazarded guess was way off the mark. & why did i not connect Arnlod Palmer with golf? probably because i know little about golf, but the name should have rung a bell. |
| 11/29/03 at 10:21:01 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| ltcorpest2 |
| 11/29/03 at 11:08:24 |
| doha, dont most people put a slice of lemon and sugar in their iced tea anyways? |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| Doha_03 |
| 11/29/03 at 14:06:57 |
| [quote author=mike aka ltcorpest2 link=board=ummah;num=1069656161;start=40#49 date=11/29/03 at 11:08:24]doha, dont most people put a slice of lemon and sugar in their iced tea anyways?[/quote] [slm] Maybe, but I am not a big fan of iced tea or even regular tea. I am an iced coffee and coffee type of person. Wasalaam Doha |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| humble_muslim |
| 12/01/03 at 07:10:29 |
| AA Glad to see this thread has cooled down. Thoughh it's not really no longer relevant, just wanted to add my own two cents to the original point. From my "limited" knowledge : there is a hadith in Bukhari in which the Prophet(SAW) expressly forbade the use of stones for fighting, Allah knows best. Secondly, as far as mutilaition is concerned : wit greate nd due respect to Ibn Tayimmah, if mutilation was permissable at all, why did the Prophet (SAW) not allow mutilation in the battle of Badr when his own uncle had been mutilated? Call me a simpleton, but if the Prophet (SAW) forbade it under those circumstances, I don't see how it could possibly ever be justified. And finally, war is ALWAYS justifiable in self defense. MAy Allah accept the martyrdom of all the Iraqis who have been killed in this struggle with the correct intention, Ameen. |
| NS |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| sal |
| 12/01/03 at 15:09:07 |
| [slm] After I came late to read what was going on, I dont mean to reopen the discusion its political side . I would shut up and watch but as long as there is a responsibilty as a muslem for ISLAM I have to saysome thing ,becouse I wonder why you guys are mixing up things . some of you are making your won fatwa ( explanation) about the war in IRAQ that islam says yes to this and no to that. .It is not allowed in ISLAM to relate a personal emotion to ISLAM . so please be careful .This is very dangerous . so far what I know about war is that wounded fighters are to be held as war prisoners and I think ISLAM is so clear on this . we can so easily say those youth who have done this might be right or wrong .any body can express his own personal feeling toward this etc .politicaly but why ISLAM is being involved with our ignorant knowledge ? we dont know well about ISLAM to make a final FATWAH . being just a muslem doesnt mean we know well about it . to the contrary I think some non muslems can have more idea about ISLAM by reading or hearing about it . we need to be careful to make any FATWAH [wlm] |
| Re: Iraqi Kids great US soldier's with Pumels Musu |
|---|
| jannah |
| 12/01/03 at 15:19:48 |
| [slm] Since the topic is now "moot". We might as well close this topic and move on to things more beneficial inshaAllah. |
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board |