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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| What does Islam say about |
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| Caraj |
| 12/02/03 at 19:06:23 |
| I have heard Muslims are to (now please don't quote me) to cover their fellow Muslims sins, not bring light to it or to stick up for, defend (something to this effect) What does Islam say if the person (another Muslim) is undeniably WRONG? If it is appearant and there is much evidence to prove it? If a Muslim is wrong and you can prove their actions are wrong via Quran or the Prophet's example, then what? |
| Re: What does Islam say about |
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| muslimah853 |
| 12/02/03 at 23:10:36 |
| It doesn't matter if the person is undeniably wrong, we still are supposed to cover their sins. There are a number of reasons for this, one important one being that it is not liked for scandal to become rampant in the community. If we are always uncovering and discussing the wrongdoings of other people--we become desensitized to it and quite possibly also fall into the sin of gossiping and becoming arrogant/gloating over the sins and misfortunes of others. Two--it can lead to the practice of people seeking out the secrets of others, and this is obviously undesirable for a number of reasons. Three--maybe the person is committing a sin and feels shame about it, and he struggles with it in private. His sense of shame is at least some level of faith, and it may be that humiliating and exposing him in front of the entire community will cut him off from repenting. If he cannot face the community and/or is turned out from it because of having been humiliated, maybe he will have a hard time finding support in changing. There are other reasons as well. There are exceptions though, when it is permissible, desirable, or even obligatory to speak about the sins of another. Criminal cases, for example, or other court testimony. Say a man beat his ex wife and I know this and he wants to marry someone else. Even so if I can convince the sister in question not to marry him without saying why, then I am not permitted to elaborate. This is a very slippery slope and one must be careful if placed in a situation where speaking up becomes necessary, one must be careful to do so only to the degree necessary and to do so while maintaining careful watch over one's intentions and states of the heart. In cases less pressng than this, if someone is doing something wrong that we know of, advising that person in private is the way to go. |
| Re: What does Islam say about |
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| sofia |
| 12/03/03 at 16:03:39 |
| Salaam/Peace, Allahu A'lim, but I tend to think it's better to say directly what the bad characteristic is in cases of exceptions, provided it does not cause extra fitnah/tribulation. Like for example, when serving as a reference for someone who is asking about a potential marriage partner, straight out tell the woman if a man is a wife-beater so she has all the info she needs to decide. The Prophet (S) did this. I'm not sure what the comprehensive list of exceptions is for when we have an obligation to disclose someone's bad characteristics (I've heard it also includes when acting as a witness, as a reference for financial/business partners, etc), so better to check with the experts. In everyday scenarios, where we are not serving as a reference/witness, pointing out the sins of others is not a good idea, for various reasons as sis muslimah853 pointed out. You know the saying: Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. Allahu A'lim/God knows best. Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: [color=blue]"He who alleviates the suffering of a brother out of the sufferings of the world, Allah would alleviate his suffering from the sufferings of the Day of Resurrection, and he who finds relief for one who is hard pressed, Allah would make things easy for him in the Hereafter, and he who conceals (the faults) of a Muslim, Allah would conceal his faults in the world and in the Hereafter. Allah is at the back of a servant so long as the servant is at the back of his brother, and he who treads the path in search of know- ledge, Allah would make that path easy, leading to Paradise for him and those persons who assemble in the house among the houses of Allah (mosques) and recite the Book of Allah and they learn and teach the Qur'an (among themselves) there would descend upon them the tranquillity and mercy would cover them and the angels would surround them and Allah makes a mention of them in the presence of those near Him..."[/color] [Saheeh Muslim] |
| Re: What does Islam say about |
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| Caraj |
| 12/03/03 at 16:54:04 |
| I am not asking about what one might call minor things, I am talking major things like murder, rape, robbery, adultery. Was just wondering how far one would take this 'covering up of sins' was an honest question. Was sincere curiousity. |
| Re: What does Islam say about |
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| timbuktu |
| 12/03/03 at 23:33:58 |
| [slm] rape, murder & robbery are sins that need to be reported to the authorities, & punishment sought. adultery: in shari`a you need four witnesses to prove it. & it is best to counsel quietly. i do not think advertising other people's sins by naming them in public is condoned, but a general statement about such sin & its avoidance is necessary, perhaps. This is what i have understood, but i am no scholar. |
| 12/03/03 at 23:45:05 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: What does Islam say about |
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| Dawn |
| 12/04/03 at 07:18:24 |
| [slm] Hmm, I had always understood that cases where the sin is harming another person were exceptions to this "covering the sins", though general exposure or a public hearing would not always be the best way to "uncover" the sin, as it were. Clearly, things like rape, murder, robbery, etc. would fall in this category. Perhaps I misunderstood, and now I am wondering. Are things like child or spousal abuse included in the "major" category or "minor" category? What about a person who is taking advantage of another financially? Someone who is slandering another and ruining their reputation? Where is the line, if there is one, drawn? |
| Re: What does Islam say about |
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| Maliha |
| 12/04/03 at 07:32:37 |
| [slm] In Islam there is always a major underlying rule, and everything else can be taken as a separate case study to be looked at individually and studied upon..at the end of the day commonsense is also applied to reach a certain conclusion based on what the texts, prior examples etc teach us:) So the first major rule in this case is not to simply spread other's sins for the sake of it. There are many related issues here, backbiting, slandering, etc. Also the fact that spreading others sins leads to desensitizing our hearts to them, and setting a precedence for the youth to do the same (like well "he did such and such, why shouldn't I?") When the case is against a public officer, or someone that others hold in esteem then this rule can be broken, because the person't authority comes with responsibility to the people and basically to set an example. If there are other pressing cases of abuse, murder, rape etc In all the cases above its to be taken through the proper channels of investigation (as the Quran exhorts us to before we jump to conclusion), and then making the judgement on consequences the individuals should face. The point is not to hide the person's sin, blindly and let them commit whatever transgressions without saying anything because "thats what we are supposed to"...no. That would actually go against another *Major* responsibility and that is to enjoin good and forbid evil and yet another one and that is to stand up for justice even against yourself and your loved ones . I hope that helped :) above is extracted from this really puny brain of mine, if I said anything wrong please feel free to [s]jump down my throat[/s] ;) Sis in struggle :-) [wlm] |
| Re: What does Islam say about |
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| Dawn |
| 12/04/03 at 09:51:31 |
| [slm] [quote author=Nur_al_Layl link=board=madrasa;num=1070409984;start=0#6 date=12/04/03 at 07:32:37] In Islam there is always a major underlying rule, and everything else can be taken as a separate case study to be looked at individually and studied upon..at the end of the day commonsense is also applied to reach a certain conclusion based on what the texts, prior examples etc teach us:) ... The point is not to hide the person's sin, blindly and let them commit whatever transgressions without saying anything because "thats what we are supposed to"...no. That would actually go against another *Major* responsibility and that is to enjoin good and forbid evil and yet another one and that is to stand up for justice even against yourself and your loved ones . [/quote] This is what I had thought. Thanks so much! |
| Re: What does Islam say about |
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| sal |
| 12/04/03 at 15:59:37 |
| Every crime is a sin ,and the crime is forgiven by the person concerned ,but the sin is is ALLAH'S bussiness ,if the person is insisiting in practicing the crimes and sins like robbery adultary etc. in this case since he/she is not only harming him/her self ,it is must to stop it and punish this person for the illegal actions taking place ,but if the penalty is applied , that part of the sin not to be mentioned as a dark history of his previous life .It can be a new page that makes him/her clear some sins can't be corrected exactly as they are ordered to be done before thay happen FOR EXAMPLE If someone steals some thing from someone ,then wakes up from such a sin . and finds .himself ashamed becouse this might harm his present life .it is allowed to pay that indirectly as a gift or help if he/she is alive but if not it is paid to his sons of realtives if any , the same way as a from of gift or no matter to say this was a loan ,The person this way has taken back his stolen belongings ,at the same time without harming the new repenting person . so if the crime part of the old bad deed is solved then the sin is forgiven by ALLAH . that is why ALLAH worned us from harming others .He says this is not between me and you but between the 2 parts But see in another way what ALLAH does ? 2 Persons came infront of ALLAH one asking for his things from the other before death . the one who is accusing the other saw a palace some where around them. he aked who's palace is this ALLAH? he answered its for who forgives his brother ,he said for me if i forgive him ? he said yes then he forgave him and they were both sent to the HEAVEN So as a crime we have to fight it but as a sin we have not to stain reputations we dont know what follows ;-) |
| Re: What does Islam say about |
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| Tesseract |
| 12/11/03 at 17:43:14 |
| Assalamu 'Alaikum, An excellent article by Sheikh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah on "Amr bil Ma'ruf wa nahi 'anil munkar" ( Enjoining Right and forbidding wrong). I am copying a part of it which is basically the answer to Azizah's question. The whole article can be read here: [url]http://www.quraan.com/Aqidah/EnjoiningTheRight.asp[/url] WHAT IS MA'RUF (RIGHT) AND MUNKAR (WRONG)? Carrying out the punishments prescribed by Allah on whoever transgresses the bounds of the shari'a is a part of prohibiting wrong. It is obligatory upon those in authority ( Uluu-ul-amr ) i.e. the scholars from each group or nation, and their amirs, and their elders, to stand over the general population enjoining good and prohibiting wrong, thus ordering them with all that which Allah and His Prophet have enjoined. For example, the rulings of Islamic Law ( Shari'a ) e.g. the five prayers in their proper time periods, obligatory alms, obligatory fasting, and pilgrimage to Makka. Also, belief in Allah, His angels, His revealed books, His prophets, and the Judgement Day, belief in the pre-destination of all things the good and the bad, and the concept of ihsaan (the highest level of iman or faith) which means to worship Allah as if you see Him for, verily, even if you do not see Him, He always sees you. Moreover, the good ( ma'ruf ) includes everything both internal and external which has been enjoined by Allah and His Prophet. These include: absolute sincerity to Allah ( ikhlaas ), dependance on Allah ( tawakkal ), that Allah and His Prophet be more beloved to the believer than anyone else, hope for Allah's mercy and fear of His punishment, patience with the decree of Allah and complete surrender to His order, truthfulness of speech, fulfilling of obligations, returning trusts to their owners, good behavior toward parents, maintaining of family ties, cooperation in all acts of righteousness and good, benevolence and generosity toward one's neighbors, orphans, poor people, stranded travellers, companions, spouses, and servants, justice and fairness in speech and actions, calling people to good character, and acts of forbearance such as establishing relations with those who cut you off, giving those who deny you, and forgiving those who oppress you. Enjoining people to be close together and cooperative, and forbidding them differing and dividing themselves is also a part of enjoining what is right. As for the bad ( munkar ) which Allah and His prophet have forbidden, its ultimate and worst form is the association of partners with Allah. Associationism means to pray to someone or something else along with Allah. This partner could be the sun, the moon, stars or planets, an angel, one of the prophets, a righteous man or saint, one of the jinn, images or graves of any of these, or anything else which is called to other than Allah the Exalted. Associationism is also to seek aid or succor from any of the above, or to prostrate to them. All of this and anything like it is the associationism ( shirk ) forbidden by Allah on the tongues of all of His prophets. Everything which Allah has forbidden is also part of the munkar such as unjustified killing, taking people's property by unlawful means, taking of property by force or intimidation, interest, or gambling, all types of sales or contracts which the Prophet has prohibited, breaking of family ties, cruelty to parents, cheating in weights and measures, and any form of transgression on the rights of others. Also in this category are all innovated acts of "worship" which Allah and His prophet have not ordained or sanctioned. Wassalamu 'Alaikum. p.s: Azizah, please, feel free to ask anything if u don't understand. |
| 12/11/03 at 17:45:54 |
| Tesseract |
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