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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| unity with cultural & ethnic diversity |
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| timbuktu |
| 12/08/03 at 08:11:00 |
| [slm] among many things i have learnt here, one in particular i did not know existed. i had come to realize the narrow-mindedness of many groups here in Pakistan, & the East in general: sectarian, urban/ rural, tribal/ clannish, ethnic, linguistic, class, etc. & since by & large i am devoid (not completely) of these, i was puzzled as to the reasons. i have figured out some, which may or may not be true. then when i spent time abroad, although i had little contact with the muslim community, i found that the muslims in Britain were pretty much divided along ethnic/ linguistic lines. I ascribed this to the working class background of the immigrant community in Britain. I thought North America was different, as most of the muslim immigrants come from the middle class. From some of the posts here I am beginning to gather that the same phenomenon also exists in the US, perhaps to a lesser degree, i hope. I was asked to write about it. Before I apply myself to this problem, I would love to have your input and any online references you can give for me to read. including that in the UK & other countries. my questions are: to what degree does this exist? in what sort of communities? what are the reasons for it? & what ways do you see to remove it? & any other input you think may be of help |
| 12/08/03 at 08:12:43 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: unity with cultural & ethnic diversity |
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| IMuslim_4Ever |
| 12/09/03 at 21:00:04 |
| [slm] i don't think that north america is any different... i sitll see caste, class, clan, language, ethnicity, cluture, countries divisions! there are just too much divisions among muslims... seriously among muslims... my own ppl make very harsh comment regarding Arabs...Pakis...and others... i wish to do something...but what can i do? i will attempt to answer your question: it exist about 99% in my Bengali communites of NJ... reasons....?? many... one is that what will other member of the community think? esp. when marrying into different caste, class, and most significantly culture... i know a lot of family disowned, outcasted their children for marring a person who is from different culture... where i live there is a huge huge huge bengali communities... huge huge huge arab communities... but they never ever get together... its like they don't think that each other exist! i don't know why!??? they have like atleast 7 masjids.. 1 paki...2 bengali...like 2 arab... 1 turkish..and others...and they each pray in their own masjids! i know bengalis never go to the arab ones...and arabs never come near the bengali ones... really...whats up with this? what happen to muslim botherhood? sisterhood? who should let these communites know what they are doing is really sad that if Prophet[saw] was here now he would probably cry over this and feel very sad... :'( :'( "sigh" May Allah[swt] help us... don't know what else to write... ma salaama |
| Re: unity with cultural & ethnic diversity |
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| William |
| 12/18/03 at 14:48:51 |
| Bismillah [slm] I also feel that this is a sad state of affairs. It sadden me to learn that different ethnicities were having their own individual Eid celebrations in my community. Like many other apsects of Islam, brotherhood is preached but rarely followed. We have to be brave enough to break through these barriers. If we don't, then who do we think will actually do it. This has become the state of our deen and ummah where we figure that since there are so many of us that someone else will do it. Because of this, nothing gets done. Insha'Allah we will stop being so shallow and realize that we are all united by our love for Allah. |
| Re: unity with cultural & ethnic diversity |
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| Nistar |
| 12/19/03 at 02:23:42 |
| [slm] I'm sorry that this probably won't help you to write (and I don't want to "hijack" the thread) -- but I need a wee bit of a rant! :'( I was told today by one of the Arab aunties in the community, that my future in-law family (only God knows who they will be), will never accept me (you know...being Canadian n'all). However, they will accept me with open arms, if I push my future husband to love and to "practise" his culture. If I move back to the "homeland" (assuming he's arab I guess) and completely embrace it with the entirety of my heart. Then I'll be accepted. Subhan'Allah, she was only trying to give me caring and loving advice... and I didn't have the heart to bring up my poor and seemingly worthless, un-Islamic culture (sigh...nope, nothing in German or Irish culture that can be within the Islamic canopy! :P ) That is all ;D [wlm] Nistar. |
| Re: unity with cultural & ethnic diversity |
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| timbuktu |
| 12/19/03 at 05:22:57 |
| [slm] i think this thread is developing along the right lines. The most important test of integration in inter-marriage. That is why, Muslims cannot be fully integrated with a non-muslim community without losing something of Islam. For one thing, Muslimahs are not allowed to marry non-muslims. why don't people describe the culture practiced in their community, & that which in their view corresponds or clashes with "Islamic" culture". to get it going, i will describe what i know: i come from a trading community of Delhi, & my childhood was spent in Karachi. There was a fair mix of people from various communities, but my interaction with them was limited to school. my mother was educated at home, & yet she had the foresight to push her children towards education, & what i read was along the unity in Islam. & towards more tolerance of others. plus i had some education in co-ed schools. We moved back & forth between East & West Pakistan, & so any prejudices got reduced with time. & my sojourn abroad made me even more of an integrationist. still i did not want to marry a non-muslim woman, & i wanted a life-partner who would have a formal education to at least a graduate level, & who would be a practicing muslimah. at that time i was more observant of the don'ts & not the do's. but background did not matter to me. Three of my brothers have married into the community, two (including me) outside it. The four of us brothers who have married have had their wives chosen for them by our mother. I would have preferred to meet & understand a girl before marriage, but i was not very fussy about that. A sister has been married outside the community, & two are what Medina calls "Single Muslim Career Women". So the problem described there is experienced in my family. my community makes money & shows it off, & we in our family hate that. but sometimes i think one of my sisters has that snobbishness about her. & i do not understand my wife. does anone? i have never made so much money to show off, thank Allah for that, but some snobbishness is there, i think. so, what is this culture conflict that sis Nistar talks about? Islam does not allow mixed dancing. & single gender dancing can only be when the audience is of the same gender, & that too if it is not erotic. next is food: i avoided pork & associated foods, but i now know that in the West, "fish & chips" are fried in lard. so if i again go there, going out for fish & chips is out. I visited pubs, & drank orange juice, or plain soda water, while friends had alcoholic drinks. I avoided beer, but if it is a done thing in your culture, it would be difficult to avoid. I had an interesting discussion with a sister who insisted that she was the lone muslim in her community (of medical doctors), & she could not abandon them, so she would have some champagne to drink during celebrations, never enough to get tipsy, & that this was OK. She offers her salah, & fasts. She wouldn't accept my arguments. Now in arab countries drinks are available, & strong spirits, too. So, the question here is whether the individual abstains or not. What other aspects of culture are there? Let us consider: niqab, or hijab. In my childhood, the urban middle class women put on the black burqa, while the widows wore a white one. The black changed into a brown one, & tight-fitting ones before disappearing altogether. Now the arab abayas are pouplar among the middle & upper-middle class urbanites. of course, in sub-communities of a country, the culture would be quite different. Let us take Lebanon. say Beirut. go to this site www.hadeer.com they have hijabs modelled, ....... it is a very good islamic site. & there is a good discussion on hijab & veil. & yet the it looks like another fashion show. take the arab muslim da3ees that have captured the hearts of young arabs & are turning them towards Islam: Amr Khaled & Moez Masud. Both are clean-shaven, & ask the women to wear the veil (amr Khaled) & the hijab (Moez Masud). So, i am still confused: what is Islamic culture, & what is not? what does an outsider muslim (or -ah) have to do in your community to be accepted? i hope i have made some sense. will be waiting for answers. |
| 12/19/03 at 06:01:00 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: unity with cultural & ethnic diversity |
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| sofia |
| 12/19/03 at 10:41:23 |
| [slm] Interesting discussion. I'd agree with everyone else, there are some "sectarian" issues within Muslim communities (to clarify: *not* within the teachings of Islaam), regardless of where. And it's particularly disheartening when new Muslims have to see/deal with it. In a fairly homogeneous region, lines can be drawn along status, education, etc, lines. In a fairly mixed one, it can be drawn along these, as well as nationality/color/race lines, none of which have any basis in Islaam. If we're told to stand shoulder to shoulder with our fellow Muslims when we pray, of course this should extend to our other activities. But does it? We're one ummah, and Allah didn't create the boundaries that we now have. Islaam embraces different cultures (to the extent it does not go against Islaam). We really need to catch up to how progressive Islaam is about this issue. On a positive note, mixed communities do have an obvious advantage. I see change and big changes happening fast in the West, masha'Allah (even in the East, look at the Muslims now compared to 20 years ago). Children of immigrants learning and living with people of other backgrounds. Marrying outside of the "lines" their parents/culture may have had. Even though most of my friends are all Muslim, I'd say they are more diverse than the friends of some of my non-Iuslim colleagues. It just comes with the territory of being an American Muslim. And alhamdulillah for that, I wouldn't want it any other way. So I see more positive than negative, and it may take time, but it will get better, insha'Allah. And may Allah improve our condition as an ummah, aameen. [color=green]"Verily, this brotherhood of yours is a single brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore serve Me (and no other). But (later generations) cut off their affair (of unity), one from another: (yet) they will all return to Us." [/color] Translation of the Qur'aan, Al-Anbiyaa' (Chapter of the Prophets), 21:92-3. |
| 12/19/03 at 10:43:54 |
| sofia |
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