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Looking to learn
Tirisilex
12/06/03 at 12:23:40
I'm looking to learn about Islam and I dont know where to start accept of course with the Koran. I am not a Muslim but a Buddhist. I'm just looking into Islam because I love learning about Religions.  
My Biggest question is how can I find a Mosque close to my area so I can find someone to talk to?
Re: Looking to learn
saadia
12/06/03 at 12:54:14
Hi Tirisilex,

A good website to check out would be www.islamicfinder.org.
You can put in your zip code and find a masjid/mosque near you.
Good luck and if you have any questions, you've come across the right place!


Saadia
Re: Looking to learn
AbdulJalil
12/06/03 at 16:59:18
hello

these are websites  :



http://www.discoverislam.com/





http://www.whyislam.org/






http://www.islam101.com





This is a whole book online:

http://www.islam-guide.com




http://www.islam-guide.com/more




http://www.beconvinced.com




http://www.sultan.org




http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic





http://www.muslimheritage.com

Re: Looking to learn
Tirisilex
12/14/03 at 12:44:32
Does Islam have any kind of Mystical Practices?
12/14/03 at 19:44:26
Tirisilex
Re: Looking to learn
faisalsb
12/15/03 at 03:12:19
Well that's really very good question I think the best person on the board to answer that question is Sister Maliha previously called Mystic.

Actually it's a vast topic, would you like to eleborate what do you mean exactly by Mystical Practices?
Re: Looking to learn
Tirisilex
12/15/03 at 10:52:15
Well.. I mean like how Hindus and Buddhists practice Yogic meditations and examining reality. The Jews practice Kabbalah.. Christian Mystics practice Contemplative Prayer..
Does Islam have their own Mystical practice?
Re: Looking to learn
humble_muslim
12/15/03 at 13:16:09
AA

Muslims stand up and pray to Allah/God 5 times a day.  When done correctly, this is a VERY spiritual and mystical experience. I VERY STRONGLY suggest the following book which would help you understand this :

http://www.isna.com/bidiw.html

Inner Dimesnions of Islamic Worship
[Imam Al-Ghazali, translated by Muhtar Holland]. In this book, Imam Al-Ghazali goes beyond the most obvious aspects of Prayer, Almsgiving, Fasting, Pilgrimage, and so forth and to explain how to reap the rich harvests of spiritual, moral and social upliftment of worship. It is an especially important book for young men and women of today who are seeking God’s pleasure - a lifestyle impossible to maintain without an understanding of the inner resources that Islam offers. P/Bk, 141pgs.
BIDIW$7.95
NS
Re: Looking to learn
Matheerah
12/22/03 at 16:21:05
[slm]

I dont want to you put u off in any way or anything but i shall say it in the most humbelest way i can, that to practice any "compulsary" act in islam one is required to be a muslim.
e.g Salah, which a compulsary act required 5 tiimes a day dialy.

but i hope you enjoy the tast of it  ;) []
Re: Looking to learn
Tirisilex
12/28/03 at 22:22:01
It isn't so much that I want to practice. It's that I wish to know and understand.

I once heard that Muslims accept some of the Biblical Old Testament.. I'm not sure if this is true or not. However King Solomon was praised as a wise King and he took it upon himself to not only learn the practices of his own faith but of those outside of his as well.
I believe I do the same.. In order to be wise.. one must learn wisdom. I see wisdom in most of the religions of today.
Re: Looking to learn
bismilla
12/29/03 at 04:25:18
[quote]I once heard that Muslims accept some of the Biblical Old Testament[/quote]

We accept the four books revealevd in it's originality by God viz. Zaboor (pslams?), Torah, Injeel(Bible) and Quran.

[quote]Does Islam have any kind of Mystical Practices?[/quote]

I suggest you read a book called "When you Hear Hoofbeats think of a Zebra" by Shems Friedlander.
Does Islam have any kind of MyRe: Looking to learn
Emerald
01/01/04 at 21:35:53
Hi Tirisilex. Welcome. :)

You asked, "Does Islam have any kind of Mystical Practices?".....

From what I know wa Allahu A'am (Allah knows best) is that there are some sects of Islam that do. These sects though have made innovations  in Islam (straying from just the Quran and Sunnah {traditions of the Prophet Muhammad}) and are not followed by Sunni Muslims.

Emerald   :-)
Re: Looking to learn
al-ajnabia
01/01/04 at 23:32:05
[slm]
someone once told me that when a sunni goes mystic and stays sunni they kick mistical sufi bee-hind. I believe it.
What I understand of any mysical pracitce is that the "mystical" things are side effects. But its sort of like the Am Indian Idea of "medicine" you dont own it, its to help with, maybe you notice things that make it come in a more timely fasion but its not at your beck and call, if it is thats a danger sign. When ya do what Allah told you to do to the best of your ablity and become more of who you are, you might notice your are a little extra unique or you might not be. It is no help whatsoever in getting to know your place at all. It is just if you have a strong back or a quick wit use those for good and why should anything else be any different?
Theres no law against a sixth sense as far as I know, but then, who knows. People are people no matter what religion they are. Anyone can use their strength and abilities for good or bad.  Wasnt there a guy exicuted for putting a hex on someone in the Kingdom a few years back?
But then who doesnt listen the cousin with preminitions?
I'm afraid I cant give the references for all that but they exist. but there are ways and ways of reading "spend what you have" its just not too popular to talk that way right now.

I dont know waht kind of Budhist you are, or what youve been doing, but if you took on islam like a practice and folowed the directions exactly (that includes believing in Allah excusively) it would make all that other stuff look like "methods of self torture for the purpose of torturing all beings even longer" and I dont say that to be mean.  Arent there warnings on that stuff about waht happens if it is practiced wrong? Ye t the person speaking believes that many of those practices are derived form the Koran or extracted but unfortunately mingled. That means that they are not straight paths if you follow that line of logic. You have to make a leap at the end, or you end up messed up and even if you do make that leap you cant tell anybody.
Islam is still about compassion, but its more into human nature than Budhism is.
well, there's that
al-ajnabia
Re: Looking to learn
WhiteSomali
01/03/04 at 15:50:10
[slm] :)

[QUOTE]
Theres no law against a sixth sense as far as I know[/QUOTE]

Actually psychics and fortune-tellers are collaborating (sp?) with shaytaan, because they get their information from shaytaans that have been eavesdropping on Allah and his angels. And all forms of magic are haram, not just black magic. I'm not sure if that's what you meant by sixth sense, so if it's not my bad.

Does anybody know where I can get information on Sufis? If that's a banned topic then just go ahead n pm me :) I don't like being ignorant to such things so I wanna learn more about them. Thanks.

[slm]
Re: Looking to learn
humble_muslim
01/03/04 at 18:38:57
AA

Tirisilex,

Where do you live in New Hampshire?  There are some muslim communitites I konw of there.

You might find the following article interesting.  It includes information about the muslim belief in the Biblical prophets.


What do Muslims Believe?
In order to understand Islam, it is important to know exactly what muslims believe in. In this article, we present some verses directly from the Quran which describe the muslim belief.

The following verses of the Quran broadly sum up the total of a muslim's belief:

This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, for the God-fearing - who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, and who believe in the Revelation sent to you, and sent before you, and in their hearts have the certainty of the Hereafter. (Chapter 2, vv 2-4).

The Messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each of them believes in God, His angels, His books, and His messengers. (Chapter 2, v 285).

Belief in God
This is the first and foremost belief of the muslim, the belief of the existence of a single God, who created the universe and everything in it, and who alone deserves to be worshiped.

Belief in the messengers, divine revelation, and divine books.
Muslims believe that God has appointed messengers from amongst mankind, thruout the ages, to guide mankind to the message that there is only one God. The first such messenger was Adam; the last such one was Muhammad (peace be upon them). These messengers, sometimes referred to as prophets, received divine revelation. Some messengers were given the revelation in the form of a divine book. Such books include the Torah (revealed to Moses), the Gospel (revealed to Jesus), the Psalms (revealed to David), and the Quran.

Here are some relevant verses from the Quran.

Surely We have revealed to you (Muhammad) as We revealed to Noah, and the prophets after him, and We revealed to Abraham and Ismail and Issac and Jacob and the tribes, and Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon; and We gave to David the Psalms. (Chapter 4, v 163).

He has revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Book with truth, confirming that which was before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. (Chapter 3, v 3).

It was We who revealed the Torah, in which was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who submitted (to God's will), by the rabbis and the doctors of law: to them was entrusted the protection of God's book, and they were witnesses to it. (Chapter 5, v 44)

And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Torah that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Torah that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to the God-fearing. (Chapter 5, v 46)

Were you witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship your god and the god of your fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one God: To Him we submit." (Chapter 2, v 133).

Say: "We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Him do we submit." (Chapter 3, v 84).

And We gave to him (Abraham) Issac and Jacob; each did We guide, and Noah did We guide before, and of his descendants, David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Aaron; and thus do We reward those who do good. And Zachariah and John (the Baptist) and Jesus and Elijah; every one was of the good; and Ismail and Elisha and Jonah and Lot; and every one We made to excel (in) the worlds. (Chapter 6, vv 84-86)




It is important to note that according to Islamic belief, Jesus was not the son of God, nor was he God incarnate, but he was a prophet like the other prophets mentioned here.

Belief in the hereafter
Muslims believe that there is a life after the life of this world, which is referred to as the hereafter. It consists of two distinct phases : the Day of Judgment, and Paradise and Hell.

The Day of Judgment is described in great detail in many places in the Quran. We shall just quote a couple of extracts here.

And the day on which We will cause the mountains to pass away and you will see the earth a levelled plain, and We will gather them and leave not any one of them behind. And they shall be brought before your Lord, standing in ranks: Now certainly you have come to Us as We created you at first. No, you thought that We had not appointed to you a time of the fulfillment of the promise. And the Book shall be placed, then you will see the guilty fearing from what is in it, and they will say: Ah! woe to us! what a book is this! it does not omit a small thing nor a great thing, but numbers them (all); and what they had done they shall find present (there); and your Lord does not deal unjustly with anyone. (Chapter 18, vv 47-49).

When the earth is shaken with her (violent) shaking,

And the earth brings forth her burdens,

And man says: What has befallen her?

On that day she shall tell her news,

Because your Lord had inspired her.

On that day men shall come forth in sundry bodies, that they may be shown their works.

So he who has done an atom's weight of good shall see it

And he who has done an atom's weight of evil shall see it.

(Chapter 99, vv 1-8).




These verses illustrate the main points of the day of judgment :

The earth will undergo a great cataclysm

All of mankind, from the first to the last, will be brought back to life and be gathered before God

Everything which each human did in this is life will be shown to them




Each human being will then be judged, and be awarded either a reward, in terms of Paradise, or a punishment, in terms of Hell.




Most surely the righteous are in bliss, and most surely the wicked are in burning fire. (Chapter 82, vv 13 – 14)




And as for him who transgressed all bounds, and preferred the life of this world, the fire will be his home.

And as for him who feared the standing before his Lord, and kept his desires under check, Paradise will be his home. (Chapter 79, vv 37-41)




Surely We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire, the curtains of which shall encompass them about.

Surely those who believe and do good, We do not waste the reward of him who does a good deed.

These it is for whom are gardens of perpetuity beneath which rivers flow. (Chapter 18, vv 29 and 31).




What is the criterion by which each person will be judged by? The first and foremost thing will be whether he/she worshiped God alone, with no partners. The Quran says that those who take gods other than the one true God will not be able to enter Paradise :




Surely whoever associates (others) with God, then God has made Paradise forbidden for him , and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust. (Chapter 5, v 72).




Disbelief in the revelations of God leads to hell :




And (as to) those who disbelieve in and reject My revelations, they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide. (Chapter 2, v 39).




This is their reward, Hell, because they disbelieved and took our revelations and our messengers as a joke. (Chapter 18, v 105).




Belief alone is not sufficient to enter Paradise; it must be accompanied by righteous deeds.




Surely (as for) those who believe and do good deeds, their place of entertainment shall be the gardens of Paradise (Chapter 18, v 107).




Certainly We created man in the best form; then We render him the lowest of the low.

Except those who believe and do good, so they shall have a reward never to be cut off. (Chapter 95, vv 4-6).




Surely (as for) those who believe and do good, they shall have gardens beneath which rivers flow, that is the great achievement. (Chapter 85, v 11).





























NS
Re: Looking to learn
al-ajnabia
01/05/04 at 15:40:36
[slm]
Ya ahmad,
waht do you say about sheikhs and swamys, are they in league with the devil too?
there is a difference between info kicked down by devils eaves droppin on angels and timely info kicked down to those in more dire straits thatn can be politley discribed. I'm not saying on the level of timeless prophesy, but angels talk back soemtimes.
Never heard of someone who followed a thought and saved their life by doing soemting out of their normal path?
Its a serious conversion issue for some people in some places where they know factually that they hear the thoughts of others whather they want to or not wheather they try to or not just like they hear weather they want to or not to speach spoken out loud. I've met several to quite a few that might contiplate coverting to islam more seriously if they thought they had any chance whatsoever of keepin a lid on their telepathy.
On the level of day to day human life of islam, a lot of us are telepathic. Allah made us not any devil, and I'm sure he knew waht he was doing.  Maybe we aught to be hunted down and shot like the christains have doen to us, or enslaved like the hindus have done to us.  I dunno all I have to say is hail.
[wlm]
Re: Looking to learn
Tirisilex
01/05/04 at 22:28:39
I'm located in the Lakes Region of New Hampshire.. A few towns over by Laconia. Concord is like 25 minutes away from me.. I can't travel far.. Anything more than 1/2 hour away is too far for me.
Re: Looking to learn
WhiteSomali
01/05/04 at 22:37:13
[slm]

Sis al-ajnabia, I dont understand why you're comparing Sheikhs to fortune-tellers. The two are not the same, in fact they don't have a whole lot in common.

And really, feel free to not bash me for what I said, esp. considering that it's not simply an opinion I hold, it's from the Islamic values that I've been taught. Also, I have never heard this particular issue disputed, everyone I've known holds the same opinion about fortune-tellers and magic-users.

[slm]
01/05/04 at 22:38:45
WhiteSomali
Re: Looking to learn
al-ajnabia
01/06/04 at 00:13:15
[slm]
This is really quite startelling to me to be honest. But are you sure that false sylogysms are not being used here?
If Allah sent the message to all mankind, are you saying that he was excluding the telepathic ones from that number?
I have a personally low opinion of people who try to turn a profit fromthe stuff or who break all sorts of rules, but its like as though because you have only know the deaf you say the hearing are un natural? or maybe I dont read you right?
all ducks swim
my brother swims,
therefore my brother is a duck?
devils see differently than most people I have met
my sister sees differently than most people I have met
therefore my sister is a devil?
I find it difficult to fathom that Allah would allow marraige to cousins but provide the basis for equating humans with different capacities to the devils in the same token.
people with a lot of energy runa round a lot on the earth
people who run around a lot encounter many opportunities for good and evil behavior
many people do not make good decisions
people who dont make good decisions and have a lot of energy do a lot of evil on the earth
People who dont make good decisions and dont have a lot of energy dont do as much evil as they would do if they had a lot of energy.
But it is a break in the logical process to state that we should sedate the world's population so that people will not have a lot of energy.
Its not what you have, its how you got it and what you do with it.

I ask again, do you really think that Allah intended to exclude people who were born a little different in the area of perception from full and equal participation in the religion He chose for all of humanity? Surely the concept of humans with different perceptual capacities was known to humanity at the time of the revelation of the Quran.
psychics and fortuntellers who call on devils to sneak up on angles are doing an active thing to go beyond the perceptions that Allah alloted them.
Just as people who develop very strong arms might need more spacific education on how to give someone a "mild beating" so that waht they do is the "mild Beating" that is permissable so somone who sees a little more might need to learn a little extra about personal privacy.  And, someone who takes steroids to increase their strength, and someone who calls on devils to know what they have no right to know are both likely to encounter bad consequences.  Someone who puts themself in a situation to be straightened out by someone on steroids is likely to end up just a messed up as someone who seeks information form someone who's sources are devils.  Both are better off learing self control and how to use their own senses whether they have six or three.
Is there anything in The Quran or Suna that contradicts this,?  I have had no instructionin the memorization of numbers so I dont have the ability to cite like some can, but I do remember the words that I have seen that obviously coresponded to the heart Quran that was able to get to me. We didnt all grow up in areas with large and overt muslim populations, but wandering ,everywhere I have found heart qurans, also I have encountered people of different strengths and weaknessess everywhere I have wandered, Therefore, I believe that Allah wanted everybody, so when I read that the Quran was the last revelation and that it was the religion he chose for the earth and that he had sent it to all people in the written Quran I fingured that was waht the phemonena I have encountered on the Earth were all about. I assumed that the rest of the Written Quran is similarly verified in the Earth and continued to use the processes I have used to navegate the earth to navegate the quran and expected the same signals as to wheather I was on or off track.
Thats how I reach my opinions, I cant cite the verse number or even cut and paste (i'm fairly non computer savy), but I can use this process despite anything it will be ther if the lights go out or all the books disapear, BUt like anyone else, I like to hear the original writing, though ive had to watch my self, people dont critcally settle what is written and ground it in the reality it indicates like they do when its stripped of it numbers and venerated lines of transmission.
Well that's my 2cents
[wlm]
Al-ajnabia
Re: Looking to learn
WhiteSomali
01/06/04 at 00:35:56
[slm]

Okay, here come a couple hadeeth and cut-and paste fatwas :)

But before I put them I should state that psychics and telepaths are a different thing, psychics/fortune-tellers reveal the future, whereas telepaths claim to be able to read other peoples thoughts. I have no reason to believe in telepathic people, and I won't until someone can prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that there truly are people who can read other peoples thoughts. I don't take a leap of blind faith on anything, which is understandable :)

[code]
Visiting Fortunetellers; or Obeah Men; or Psychics; etc.
The Messenger (peace be upon him) said: "Whoever goes to a fortuneteller and asks him anything, Allah will not accept his Prayers for 40 days. " [Muslim]
This is the punishment for going to him and seeking his help. However, if a Muslim believes in what the fortuneteller says, the harm is even greater. The Messenger (peace be upon him) said: "Whoever goes to a fortuneteller and believes in what he says, has disbelieved in what was brought by Muhammad (i.e. Islam)." [Ahmad]

This Hadeeth clearly declares, that to believe anything from the fortuneteller/obeah man, is disbelief.
These experts at deception have deceived many people, and extracted from them much wealth. Yet, many Muslims frequent them. May Allah assist and guide us from such practitioners of evil.[/code]

[code]
On the authority of `Imran Ibn Husain (ra ), in a marfoo' form, it is reported: "Whoever practises at-tiyarah, or tells fortunes or seeks advice from a fortune-teller, or practises magic or asks another to do so, is not one of us; and whoever goes to a soothsayer and believes what he tells him has disbelieved in that which was revealed to Muhammad." (Narrated by Al-Bazzaar, with a good Sanad and by At-Tabarani, in his book, Al-Awsat, with a good sanad, but without the words: "...and whoever goes to a soothsayer etc...")

In this Hadith, the Prophet (saas ) declares himself free and innocent of three kinds of people: (i) The one who seeks omens or their interpretation, (ii) the one who tells fortunes or seeks advice from fortune-tellers and (iii) the one who practises magic, or seeks the services of a magician. Then He (saas ) adds, as an extra warning to the fortune-teller and his clients, that whoever believes in the words of the fortune-teller has disbelieved in the Revelation (the Qur'an and the Sunnah) given to him (saas ); this is because Allah and His Messenger (saas ) have informed us that knowledge of the unseen is only with Allah (swt ), therefore belief in the fortune-teller is a rejection of Allah's Words and those of His Prophet (saas ).

Benefits Derived From This Hadith

The prohibition of interpreting omens, of sorcery and fortune-telling.
The forbiddance of seeking these three things.
That believing the prophesies of the fortune-teller is kufr.
That the Qur'an is Revelation, not created.
Relevance of This Hadith to the Subject of the Chapter

That the Hadith proves without doubt, that the fortune-teller is a disbeliever.

Relevance of This Hadith to the Subject of Tawheed

That the Hadith proves without question, that the fortune-teller is a disbeliever, because he depends upon shirk in order to predict the future.

Muhammad Ibn `Abdil Wahhab says: "Al-Baghawi said: "The seer (al-'arraaf) who claims to know the unseen depends upon knowledge stolen (by the jinn, who overheard it from the lowest heaven) and falsehood and the like; It has been said that he is the same as the fortune-teller (al-kaahin), but the latter is, in fact, one who claims knowledge of the unseen events of the future. It has also been said that he is one who knows the secrets of the mind." Abul `Abbas Ibn Taimiyah said: "The seer is a name for the fortune-teller, the astrologer, the thrower of sand, and all those who claim knowledge of these matters by such means." Ibn `Abbas (ra ) said, concerning a people who wrote Abaajaad 4 and practised astrology: "I do not consider that those who do this will have any share (of blessings or reward) with Allah (swt )."[/code]

[slm]
01/06/04 at 00:50:27
WhiteSomali
Re: Looking to learn
Mossy
02/10/04 at 04:45:58
If Tirisilex is still reading this, I would recommend the works of William Chittick (such as The Vision of Islam) and his wife Sachiko Murata (such as the Tao of Islam). I think these will probably help you relate most if you're starting from a Buddhist viewpoint.

For brother Ahmad, the topic of Sufis/Sufism is a rather delicate one, especially given the differences in the exact definition of the term that exist :)

If one defines a Sufi simply as one that does Tassawuf, then that's a nice and safe basis from which to work, as it includes most of the ulema. The entire concept is looking after one's internal state as well as the external - most of the problems we see is one some go to either end, emphasising the external while ignoring the internal is just as bad. As Imam Malik stated:

'He who practices sufism without learning Sacred Law or Shariah corrupts his faith, while he who learns Sacred Law or Shariah without practicing sufism corrupts himself. Only he who combines the two proves true.' (Iqaz al-himam fi sharh al-Hikam, Ibn Ajiba, Ahmad ibn Muhammad, and Ahmad ibn Muhammad Ibn Ata Illah, Mustafa al-Babi al-Halabi wa Awladuhu, Cairo, 1972, pp. 5-6).

Islam is about moderation after all..
Re: Looking to learn
al-ajnabia
02/16/04 at 10:59:13
[slm]
I cant remember if it was just in this thread or in another more recent that I saw a discussionof astrology.  I had the question " was astrology considered a from of fortune telling in the Time of the prophet [saw]?" Because I was under the impression that Astrology (yes astrology not astronomy) was universally considered to be a science at that time. But I didnt ask because I thought it might get heated and I wanted to find where i had seen it discussed the the Quran first.
Today while looking at something else I ran across these verses in translation that I felt might be good to discuss: 15:16-18
16:It is we who have set out the Zodiacal signs in the heavens, and made them fair seeming to beholders;
17: and We have guarded them from every evil spirit acursed
18: But any that gains a hearing by stealth is pursued by a flaming fire, bright.

Abdulla Yusuf Ali then discusses cosmic harmony in h is discussion he says that those who are evil are outside of this harmony and I think this is why I think people who follow Allahs commands sometimes get a glipse of the pattern, which I dont consider the same as seeking knowledge of the future, but I couldnt find that reference when we were having this discussion.
I have an older edition of this Quran, I have heard that it has been modified and that this edition is out of print.  Is this why I cant relate to newer muslims?
Ony Allah knows,
Salaam,
02/16/04 at 11:58:49
al-ajnabia


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