Madina Archives

Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board

Direction of the board...
jannah
12/29/03 at 06:19:18
Assalaam Alaikum, I would just like to bring up some issues that have been on my mind lately.  First let me just say that it is not the job of anyone here to represent the 1000+ members except for me. It's my job. There are people here who go to mehndis. There are people that watch movies. (In fact i can't think of a single person except maybe one who doesn't and none who never have). There are people that don't wear Hijab. There are people who have boyfriends. There are people who commit Zina. *I* represent these people. And as representitive to these people I would like everyone to stop posting their personal opinion of what is right and wrong criticizing people. Everyone has their own personal level of Iman. Each person has their own struggles. Islam is extremely diverse. Scholars differ. To try to cram one brand of Islam or "my way" of Islam does only harm to everyone here and the board. This is not an issue about fatwas or about what's right or wrong Islamically. It's about interaction and response. This is not a school where we are admonishing the students for their wrong actions. This is not a Q&A board where we are correcting the world.  We are ordinary Muslims living our lives interacting with other ordinary Muslims. We are real people with our own struggles trying to be a better Muslim at our own pace. Not someone else's. The board has become so self-righteous with certain people's opinions, people don't even post anymore. They certainly don't post about their life, about their personal circumstances. about how to to help each other. Posts have become fake and hypocritical. This is certainly not about one person's posts and it's not something recent... this has been something I've been fighting for the last two years. But now I feel it's an inevitability. Ever watch the movie Titanic? (I'm sure no one would admit to it here in the current atmosphere). The 'unsinkable' ship is hit by an iceberg. No one thinks anything of it, the kids play with the fallen ice, the entertainment continues in the ballroom,  but the architect knows the ship can take damage to four of the holds, but not five, never five. The ship builder faces a clock on the mantle in the ballroom of the ship he has built. He is agonized but certain. 'It's a mathematical certainty', he says. 'The ship will sink'. I say this too... this board has become a hollow ship... a dying land. People are leaving.. have been leaving for a long time...notice how none of the moderators post anymore or any of the 'regulars'? How there are no personal posts save via anonymous? and why... because (1) Every time someone posts anything they get jumped on by the hyper judgemental "That's haram" or "I don't do that" or "That's not my personal level of iman" and (2) People do not post about their real lives...it's become that hypocritical let's censor what I write for fear of what people will say. Those two things have led to a viscious cycle that breed certain types of posts and threads and keep others out, alienating real life, normal thought and interaction. I've tried... really tried, but not even I can stop it. This board has stopped being meaningful real people. It's just about pasting fatwas, hypocrisy and being fake. If it lasts another year I'd be surprised at this point. In fact, I only keep it going in the hopes of returning to what it once was.. to it's potential and I know others still hold on here for that reason too. They are extremely dissatisfied but they can't figure out what went wrong, when. But without change of every single member realizing the purpose of the board and changing their posting habits we are going to sink. It's a mathematical inevitability.

Re: Direction of the board...
Halima
12/29/03 at 07:04:29
Thank you Jannah for realizing this and saying it openly.  Yes, the fear factor has encrouched on this board. And as representitive to these people I would like everyone to stop posting their personal opinion of what is right and wrong criticizing people. Everyone has their own personal level of Iman. Each person has their own struggles. Islam is extremely diverse. Scholars differ. To try to cram one brand of Islam or "my way" of Islam does only harm to everyone here and the board. This is not an issue about fatwas or about what's right or wrong Islamically. It's about interaction and response. This is not a school where we are admonishing the students for their wrong actions. This is not a Q&A board where we are correcting the world.  [i]We are ordinary Muslims living our lives interacting with other ordinary Muslims. We are real people with our own struggles trying to be a better Muslim at our own pace. Not someone else's.[/i] Very true indeed. I say this too... this board has become a hollow ship... a dying land. People are leaving.. have been leaving for a long time...notice how none of the moderators post anymore or any of the 'regulars'? How there are no personal posts save via anonymous? and why... because (1) Every time someone posts anything they get jumped on by the hyper judgemental "That's haram" or "I don't do that" or "That's not my personal level of iman" and (2) People do not post about their real lives...it's become that hypocritical let's censor what I write for fear of what people will say. [i]Those two things have led to a viscious cycle that breed certain types of posts and threads and keep others out, alienating real life, normal thought and interaction[/i]. I would be healthy if we agree to disagree wihtout someone being all bent out of shape. Halima

Re: Direction of the board...
flyboy_nz
12/29/03 at 07:07:23
[slm], Jannah I have to say I whole-heartedly agree with your views.  To be honest I have been away from the board for a while.. I used to post a bit back in the days but have become more of a lurker.  The old crew have changed, withdrawn or moved on. I discovered Madina back around 2000 and this place was a utopia for me.  To be surrounded by such a cool bunch of people, who are so knowledgeable, wise and supportive.  Who are also entertaining and full of jokes that would have me smiling throughout the day.  Madina was a place where I'd come to receive a much needed boost to my imaan.  It was a place where I'd come for inspiration and assistance.  It was a place for advice and feedback. What was it that made Madina unique? and what has changed?  Remember the posts that bro mujaahid used to write?  They were a lil on the contraversial side, but done with humour and also there was an underlying respect for the others on the board.  Is it that the respect and understanding has gone?  If people can't be real, then how can their hearts get closer together... and if their hearts can't get closer together, how can they have respect and understanding for each other? I can so see what you mean when you say the ship is sinking...the water slowly filling one hold..then another. As a general observation I've noticed this trend in the general Muslim community.  A trend towards rigidity and intollerance..and you're right, it's also a trend towards fakeness.  My personal nickname for these types of people are Telebangelists - ones who beat you around the head with their doctrine with little care for the individual. Will we have to draw the battlelines and show similar intollerance back?  No, the weapon of choice must be hikmah!  We must stive on with hope Jannah.  We must make a collective du'a to revive that love, respect and understanding between each and every one.   wasalaam, ;-)Ahmed

Re: Direction of the board...
timbuktu
12/29/03 at 08:31:08
[slm] hi jannah really! i did not notice it. i thought we were going along fine, but i do not have such an old membership, so perhaps i don't know what it was like in the past. i came here to escape the islam-bashing & terrorist-calling by a group of right-wing americans on IOL, & i have loved it ever since. i find care & love & solace, & i find good islamic advice. i have been able to learn & improve my practice of islam. only the other day this girl who directed me here has tried to start a Halaqa on IOL, citing jannah.org as an example. all of you, without exception, make a very nice family here. It is lovely to belong to this family. BroHanif has even started a shadow Jannah site. Sometimes brothers & sisters fight. OK, most of the time they fight. all right, they do fight ALL the time.  :) was this decay from the extremist-fanatic-fundamentalist-terrorist that they called me on IOL? has my coming caused this degeneration that is causing you concern? if so, i will go away, although it will break my heart. but i am used to having my heart broken.  :) It is too nice a place to be destroyed. i don't think there is anyone more dogmatic than i am, so please don't point the finger at anyone else. & i am sorry if i have hurt anyone's feelings.
12/29/03 at 23:31:42
timbuktu

Re: Direction of the board...
strait-talkin-sis
12/29/03 at 09:07:16
[slm] I know what you're talking about sis jannah, I've been a lurker here for about 2 years :)  Yet, ironically what made me screw up the courage to finally join up was the fact that the board has "moved on" . If you don't mind my saying so, it had a very "clubby" feel to it earlier perhaps because most of the regulars who posted knew each other personally in real life or made references in general posts to things which only they understood. It made people like me feel excluded, not "in the know" if you know what I mean. One of the main strengths of jannah.org and this board in my opinion is that it is such a contemporary reflection of the times we live in. We Muslims everywhere have been forced to re-think our positions vis a vis EVERYTHING -- big and small --post 9/11, and like flyboy_nz pointed out this change in the community is reflected on the board. I don't think that's a bad thing at all, in fact I've noticed most of the threads are a  lot closer to real life and so are the responses, as compared to the previous sugar-n-spice-n-everything nice stuff. Another thing is that as a community we are supposed to "enjoin good and forbid evil"  ALBEIT with wisdom. So if there are people here who are committing zina, have boyfriends or don't wear hijab like you said, it is the job of this Islamic message board to pass on the message to them in the best possible way...I remember reading in one of your posts ages back that the purpose of this website is dawah, why exclude our fellow brother and sister Muslims from this? Yes, being judgemental instead of being sympathetic to someone's personal problems is kinda mean and we do see a lot of talking AT and talking DOWN TO instead talking WITH, but that can be taken care of. My suggestion is that as an administrator you could completely ban the Madina quote-athon where one poster's quotes are picked to pieces by another. I don't see the point of interminable wranglings and I bet it's counter productive to dawah to see Muslims nit-picking like this. I'd also suggest some rules on the 'adab' of differing....kind of like sparring rules with a list of things a poster may do/not do if they have  a difference of opinion with someone on the board. I've learnt a lot from this board over the years and am still learning...one of the first and most important things I learnt here was not to fly off the handle when someone opposed me in Ramadhan 2000. The coming year was to witness a phenomenal rise in Quranic awareness. Perhaps the most fascinating aspect of the diploma course is the word to word translation of the Quran which the students learn thus enabling them to understand the entire Quran in the language chosen by ALLAH SWT. This method of learning has been devised personally by Dr. Farhat who has endowed her students with this invaluable treasure. Eliminating the dependence on translations for all students irrespective of their mother tongue is nothing short of a miracle. Students are also able to teach others Quranic Arabic based on the same methodology. What is also especially appealing to the educated mind is the Tafseer (commentary) of the Quran which Dr. Farhat attempts to make relevant to today's world. Relating Quranic Ayahs to everyday lives she inspires her students and listeners to practically implement in their lives all they have learned in the light of the Quran and Sunnah. Pakistan women socialitee back last year and still lurk (Nistar = hidden).  I certainly have felt that some of my older posts were being criticized for being "wrong" -- by member and by *cough* moderator *cough*....so I've stopped posting except for here and there and under Anon. Real life?  I don't think I can talk about my real life without perhaps leaning into several of the banned topics. As I scanned the responses, Halima's one line stuck out the most: [quote]Yes, the fear factor has encroached on this board.[/quote] I think the fear factor is everywhere -- at least, I've seen it materialize in two different MSAs that I've worked with over the past 5 years.  People mentally beaten into their deen:  Sisters leaving (and taking all of their friends with them) because of barriers.  Brothers afraid to speak on secular issues in the musallah or at meetings for fear of being jumped on.  Muslims of various madhaabs and "sects" feeling excluded and hated.  All being accomplished by the "my Islam is right" crew.  Prejudice, self-hate and blatant intimidation in the name of God is rampant in many communities (even on-line ones).  But then there's the question, "don't the intimidators also have a right to say what they believe?" I don't think this board is this dark.  I also think that there are many moments of good and happy light. Who knows why posts of harsh criticism occur?  We all know that it is easier to fly off the handle in virtual communities.  And yet, if I were a betting person, these posts are made with sincerity in attempting to help the "wayward" back to "light" (even though it's the "my Islam" light). Perhaps there should be a virtual adab of naseeha.  But then, here appears yet another ban, or another restriction on posts...feelings... real life. I don't think the old days could ever be recreated -- and I don't think that (where the board is at right now) hikmah-filled messages are getting across.  I agree with flyboy -- there used to be a climate where controvercial, and Islamically-oriented (ie: naseeha for posts on zina, hijab, etc), were presented with humour and respect for other beliefs.  Lamenting over the old days won't help any of us -- but we can look toward creating new levels of tolerance and mutual respect. Wa Allahu 'alam.   [wlm] Nistar

Re: Direction of the board...
Caraj
12/29/03 at 13:07:15
Jannah thank you for bringing this up. I have actually taken a board break at times cause I felt judged, but to be honest I have also decided to stay here as I have felt more acceptance from this group of people more than any group I have socialized with. I feel like I have learned a lot and have grown. However I have felt this judgementalness and I will not mention names but 2 sisters have told me they stopped posting as much as they use to due to this. There are only a handful I feel this way about, but that is ok Allah made us all different for a reason. But to be totally honest and fair I have felt more love, compassion and acceptance here than I have in any church in my past 4 decades and I have learn so much here. If I were to never convert I will defend Islam and Muslims to ones who do not know what it is all about. This is like a true family, we don't always agree with everything but the door is open and the compassion and kindness flows. Jannah you have a tough job, may we all realize that and act accordingly, you are a wonder administrator who gives of your time so we can all enjoy this board. Not our babysitters and I would not want you to feel like you are in that position of feeling as such. In conclusion, if I have ever offended anyone please forgive me, I always try to talk from experience and from the heart. But I am a mere humain who makes mistakes. (oh and this last break was a personal one, no one offended me  ;) )
12/29/03 at 13:09:58
Caraj

Re: Direction of the board...
faith
12/29/03 at 22:45:44
[slm] First of all sister Jannah, and others on the board, I am sorry you feel that this ship is sinking.   :( I feel at home here, amongst friends of the same faith, striving to practise our faith to the best of our abilities.  I want to thank you and others who have been spending their hours, efforts, money, whateverelse, to let muslims and non-muslims, gather here and talk about islam and our lives.   :)  I guess, as a newbie, I can't compare how greener the past must have been here. In a way, the remarks by sister Jannah on watching movies kind of hit home.  I know I responded to another member's thoughts on this, and I was just thinking aloud the cons (& not the pros) of this activity.  Notwitstanding that, I also acknowledged my own weaknesses as a mortal in modern times, with habits just like other mortals in this lifetime.   What I am trying to say is that, I acknowledge the ultimate standards of "living islam" that we are to strive for, but I also acknowledge my own weaknesses, and that I have a long journey ahead of me before I can arrive at the pinnacle standards of islam, i.e. my own struggles to submit to the will of God, and not to submit to my own will. I think other members have shared their standards of Islam on this ship.  Unfortunately, some members can be quick to judge others against their own standards. If I have ever come accross as judgemental, I seek forgiveness from all those who felt offended.   I never meant to judge anyone.  As my teacher have said many times, it is not our role to judge, for the ultimate Judge is Allah, Knower of all things apparent and hidden.     Take care.  Peace to all brothers & sisters. :-)

Re: Direction of the board...
timbuktu
12/29/03 at 23:17:52
[quote author=Nistar link=board=bebzi;num=1072696759;start=0#5 date=12/29/03 at 12:39:55] ......... there used to be a climate where controvercial, and Islamically-oriented (ie: naseeha for posts on zina, hijab, etc), were presented with humour and respect for other beliefs.......[/quote] that is nice. can you please give some links to us newcomers. maybe we learn something from the hikmah of the old-timers, thereby staying on the right side of our queen :)
12/29/03 at 23:57:38
timbuktu

Re: Direction of the board...
Lil_Sista
12/30/03 at 02:01:32
[slm] ____________________________________________________________ If you don't mind my saying so, it had a very "clubby" feel to it earlier perhaps because most of the regulars who posted knew each other personally in real life or made references in general posts to things which only they understood. It made people like me feel excluded, not "in the know" if you know what I mean. ____________________________________________________________ how true! :( sometimes i feel that im nothing but outsider here.i dont know any1 of ya'll in real life.neither im a paki nor living in USA (for example) :-[.but sis Jannah i wanna thank u for making this,jannah.org is a good site even tho yeah....sometimes i feel ignored  :'( on the board. Wassalam, :-)

Re: Direction of the board...
timbuktu
12/30/03 at 02:50:44
[slm] [quote author=Lil_Sista link=board=bebzi;num=1072696759;start=0#9 date=12/30/03 at 02:01:32] [slm] ____________________________________________________________ If you don't mind my saying so, it had a very "clubby" feel to it earlier perhaps because most of the regulars who posted knew each other personally in real life or made references in general posts to things which only they understood. It made people like me feel excluded, not "in the know" if you know what I mean. ____________________________________________________________ how true! :( sometimes i feel that im nothing but outsider here.i dont know any1 of ya'll in real life.neither im a paki nor living in USA (for example) :-[.but sis Jannah i wanna thank u for making this,jannah.org is a good site even tho yeah....sometimes i feel ignored  :'( on the board.Wassalam, :-)[/quote] well, Lil_Sista, don't feel ignored. when we talk in Urdu or among ourselves from the subcontinent, jump in & ask for explanations, & to put us in our place, tell us about your wonderful country & its wonderful people in the thread started by sis azizah.   have a bebzi []8/td>
12/30/03 at 02:58:16
timbuktu

Re: Direction of the board...
ouch
12/30/03 at 04:29:59
[slm] [quote] But without change of every single member realizing the purpose of the board and changing their posting habits we are going to sink. It's a mathematical inevitability[/quote]   God forbid! I'm another ex-lurker who's only just joined because I actually thought that the board was getting more mature, with more variety in the kind of posters and posts it attracted. I think a good starting point for all Madina citizens to go forward would be to follow the words of the Prophet  [saw] who said: "Man kaana yu'minu bi Allahi wa al-yaumi al-aakhir fal yaqul khairan au li yasmut" Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day let him speak that which is good or let him keep quiet. (Sahih Muslim, Bukhari) It would be a good idea if posters evaluated what they were going to put down in writing: will it add something meaningful/purposeful to the ongoing discussion or is it just a comment aimed to put off/"diss"/belittle someone else? At least two other posters hv pointed out in this thread that you DO increasingly meet people in real life who are "hyper judgemental" or those who want to "cram their version of Islaam down everyone's throat".  I'd say this is a good place to learn to deal with them with wisdom and reasoning, rather than face them in real life and be at a loss as to what to do with them! Lastly, I'd say the direction of this board and the tone of its discussions is something that is ultimately decided by its administrators... If you think of this board as just an outlet for people to hang out, pass their time, share their views and the learning part is incidental then you can act accordingly and cut out all the 'other opinions'. On the other hand if the  aim of this website and these boards is to do da'wah for the sake of Allaah swt, then I think you need to allow Muslims and non-Muslims  alike to voice their opinions and deal with them with hikmah and understanding instead of despairing . It's a tall order, but I know inshaAllah that you are up to it. May Allaah increase us all in guidance. :-)
12/30/03 at 04:31:48
ouch

Re: Direction of the board...
faisalsb
12/30/03 at 04:51:11
[slm] Well I am agreed what Sister Jannah said but I am not agreed with the conclusion what she made out of it. As a muslim nation we have all those weaknesses what Sister Jannah talked about additionally we are hypocrite, disorganised, short sighted and many more such adjectives can be added before the so called word MUSLIM NATION. So if all those qualities of our great nation are reflected on this board then I'll say this board is more representative of the nation and painting the true picture instead of hypocritical one. [quote]I've tried... really tried, but not even I can stop it. This board has stopped being meaningful real people. It's just about pasting fatwas, hypocrisy and being fake. If it lasts another year I'd be surprised at this point.[/quote] Well sister we can see the hardwork what you have been doing but I think you are exaggerating the situation and I don't think this ship is going to sink soon ..... Inshallah but if it is meant to be sink then no one can save it. But in either case you shouldn't be worried because as a muslim we are not supposed to keep the ship floating or save the ship from drowning but we are just supposed to keep on doing the good work. Allah knows the best what is better for the ship either to keep it floating or to sink it. I personally think the board is in better shape today compare to couple of years ago because earlier there was STRICT SENSOR and comparitively now we have FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Re: Direction of the board...
eleanor
12/30/03 at 05:17:11
[slm] Glad to hear others feel the same way. I thought it was just me. I could post a novel here about how my life is, how my iman is but for reasons mentioned by jannah I'll refrain. Nuff said.

Re: Direction of the board...
Nomi
12/30/03 at 05:20:27
[slm] At the start of my post i take 100% responsibility of messing things up on here. [center] [size=4]Part1: Saving my back[/size] [s]bad boys..... watcha gonna do when they come for you... oops[/s] [/center] Actually in strict sense of the word "representing" i, represent no one. No organization, no group of people, no "other website" no nothing but myself as a human "bean". But in casual sense of this word i represent those who go on mehndis (my immediate family and other muslims), i represent those who watch TV shows (my immediate family and other muslims), i represent those who have girlfriends (some of my friends and other muslims) and boyfriends, i represent those who have committed zina but now are good muslims (a coupla friends), i represent those who are commiting zina and are alcoholic and in other sins (different Muslims). AND along with that i represent those who are not for mehndi, not for movies, not for any xyz thing... Why? because i 2 alhamdulillah, am a Muslim. So my suggestion is that admins should also represent me and others like me (even one of the moderators i.e. super dooper IT AI geek, share my views about movies!!! so you guys should represent him 2). Before i move on further i would like to highlight something that i've always been doing. I dont address our admins as just jannah and bhaloo but by words of respect (cultural thing may be) like "sis jannah"; "bro bhaloo"; "respected sis"; "arshad bhai"; "respected lady" etc. So this is what the level of respect i chose for our admins, point being, i dont pick on anybody. That said... (remember i'm only concerned about my back here... i know, thats mean) We have a coupla differences like in dos and donts of mehndi, about movies BUT we have hundreds of things in common like tawheed, salaah, fasting, zakah, hajj, charity, dhikr, dawah, jihaad, Nikah (not in "that" sense :P), valima, haya, no-dating, no-alcohol, no-betting, no-clubbing, no-interest, no-haraam-music, no-bidah, we agree on laws of inheritance, laws of banking, islamic laws of punishing, laws of halaal food, laws of cleansing, and each and every verse of The Noble Qur'an (man thats thousands of things). So we are obviously in harmony. Now about pouncing at people when they share their family problems.. hm.. i recall that many people had posted about domestic violence, committing zina etc and atleast i was very kind to them in replying. Like to one sister (i would really appreciate if these people post.. even as anons to approve it) who committed zina for 3 years then repented, all of us were so so accomodating for her. Then it was ... um.. i think i shouldn't name names of those who posted as members but the point is alhamdulillah we were quite accomodating for them. But i recall that there was a post with the subject "I'm the worst sinner" and our admins deleted its contents and modified them by saying that you should talk to your imam as we can not help you with this worst situation. Till this point it was all okay but what i personally didn't like was that red smiley that was added to it. So that makes another suggestion. Now because it was my reply to a couple of posts which made our sis do what she was trying to do 16 months earlier than i joined here and kept thinking for another 8 months and finally we saw this thread. So, i was starting to feel like its ALL my fault, then i looked back, gave it a thought and said.. wait a minute... We are told that things started to get bad 2 years back right? and 8 months = 1/3 of this period (i joined 8 months back) so i only share one third of responsibility of messing things up. Rest of the 2/3 is to be distributed among other members, like its simple mathematics... but wait another minute... :) Sis Azizah and sis Nistar said that they were at times offended by ppl on the board and which includes a [s]coughing[/s] moderator too!! hm... Actually i've seen ppl have a "hard talk" with sis azizah but that wasnt me and i dont remember ever replying to sis Nistar's posts nor having an argument with her. So it wasn't me who troubled these sisters who are complaining. Now as it all happened when i was here and i admitted to 100% responsibility of messing things up during my time here which makes 1/3 of the total mess of 2 years' bad patch.. SO.................. these ppl who offended or ticked off sis azizah and sis Nistar should also share the responsibilty of these 8 months with me. <deep breathe> Now, there are three factors among which my share of 33% mess-creation should be distributed, one: a moderator that sis Nistar talked about; two: members who offended her and sis azizah. Which leaves 11% responsibility on my weak shoulders which constitutes making people leave the board for which i have got some convincing stats for you at the end of this pos[i]h[/i]t. [center] [size=4]Part2: Appreciation time[/size] [/center] [quote] If you don't mind my saying so, it had a very "clubby" feel to it earlier perhaps because most of the regulars who posted knew each other personally in real life or made references in general posts to things which only they understood. It made people like me feel excluded, not "in the know" if you know what I mean. [/quote] May be just a few of us but yes i agree... [center] [size=4]Part3: I want the moon[/size] [s]...fly to the moon and back if.... oops[/s] [/center] Who is leaving the board? Again, last part of my post will shed more light on this but i think many ppl that used to visit here 3-4 years back either have got married or have started some job which gives them less or no time to talk here. Secondly, internet is huge huge medium and ppl find different places all the time, so there is also this possibility that those who left left for spreadin the wisdom they gained here at other forums or at other places in real life. Like ppl cometh and ppl goeth all the time. Some selective ppl that i recall leaving were, bro Mullah, that crazy Mr. Bean, sis bint-a-rolf (remember her?). These people left because two of them were picked on by ppl among us (if you recall the threads "Racial Slurs" and "choosing an imam  for your community"). And sorry to sound blunt but we dint even let sis bint-a-rolf breate here when she gently showed her concerns about interaction among genders here on the board, like we should have told her that ok sis please stay here and correct us when we err in our interaction but instead two mods moved onto say that, no we are doing A okay when it comes to your concern. I hope we still remember these people? She was a convert we must have accomodated her! (thats my third suggestion) And we have lotsa members and they are joining and discussing at a very fast rate. Thats exactly why we had to limit users to 5 posts per day, remember? What else do we want ok, we want more inshaAllah we'll get more and more in quality too. [center] [size=4]Part4: Saving the sinkin ship[/size] [i]Reminds me of "cut throat island", the movie[/i] [/center] [quote] Posts have become fake and hypocritical. This is certainly not about one person's posts and it's not something recent... this has been something I've been fighting for the last two years. [/quote] Problem started 2 years back. I joined 8 months back. i've seen 300+ users join infront of me as back then our strength was around 850 (or less, maybe 800). So we had (2 years - 8 months = 16 Months..) yea 800-850 users in 16 months. But this board is not 2 years old which means you had just 850 users in 4+ years as compared to 300+ users that *i* have seen join us in just 8 months! What does that prove.... its simple mathematics... Even lurkers as old as for 3 years have joined us recently, sis dazed, sis yusufzai, sis straight talkin and many others. People have infact started joining more since i've joined and probly thats because of my [s]extraordinary[/s] sense of humor :P and way of going on here that has attacted them (j/k) ... I mean just look at that calculations above. Rate of people joining us and discussing stuff has increased many folds infact!! So, whatever panic was created isn't worth it and i'm finally free from all charges [heh.. j/k]... Seriously ppl (who IMed me or replied to my IM), i really am honored. This place is actually improving and is going nowhere but up....[s]up, up... up and away.. oops supaman..[/s] .. Its a mathematical inevitability! All of us err and all of us should improve inshaAllah, myself included. (and saying sorry shouldn't be an ego problem for us) [slm] And much respect for all of you. ps: I have more suggestion.... later inshaAllah, if.... pps: --timbuktu [quote] Sometimes brothers & sisters fight. OK, most of the time they fight. all right, they do fight ALL the time. :) [/quote] You nAUGHty boy!!!!! :P :P :P :P :P

Re: Direction of the board...
yumna
12/30/03 at 07:07:02
ooooff brother Nomi (i think) nobody was trying 2 say u were responsible for the changing situation of the board ! plz its ok who ever actually was responsible ..can we plz forget about the mehindi incident and wat was the other thing?....... watever it was ........and be back 2 the noramal friendly board again......plz??? thank u! :-* :-/ o and lil sis [quote]If you don't mind my saying so, it had a very "clubby" feel to it earlier perhaps because most of the regulars who posted knew each other personally in real life or made references in general posts to things which only they understood. It made people like me feel excluded, not "in the know" if you know what I mean.   ____________________________________________________________   how true!  sometimes i feel that im nothing but outsider here.i dont know any1 of ya'll in real life.neither im a paki nor livinc in USA (for example) .but sis Jannah i wanna thank u for making this,jannah.org is a good site even tho yeah....sometimes i feel ignored   on the board. [/quote] i hear u sis  i hear u :( masaalaamz and loveand peace 2 all!

Re: Direction of the board...
Julie
12/30/03 at 08:32:34
[slm] Another old member signing in...  I joined the old board a couple of years ago and have to agree that the atmosphere was more open and tolerant of others back then.  Although I was never a big poster, I left completely about a year ago after noticing some of the changes Jannah mentioned and then eventually came back but in lurker mode since I do still feel that there are things to learn from the board. The post by flyboy_nz hit home with me and I don't think I can say much more than what's already been said.   Please don't give up hope Jannah.  Despite everything, the board is still "home" on the internet to many people across the world. Julie

Re: Direction of the board...
Orange_Tree
12/30/03 at 09:33:13
[slm] I have lurked, logged on, then lurked again but I don't think I'm an old enuff member to remember the 'good ol' days'.  However, I think that the Lil Sista's and strait-talkin-sis's post rings true for a lot of 'newbies'.   [quote]If you don't mind my saying so, it had a very "clubby" feel to it earlier perhaps because most of the regulars who posted knew each other personally in real life or made references in general posts to things which only they understood. It made people like me feel excluded, not "in the know" if you know what I mean. [/quote] Everytime, I log on there's a new member name at the bottom of the screen which suggests a lot of ppl are logging on yet I rarely see new faces posting around here.  I think it's easy to be ignored and to respond only to members we recognise.  Perhaps, if we were more inclusive then then we wud get back a new cosy inclusive crowd that welcomes and tolerates all who enter.   There are not many posts on the site everyday (maybe we're saving up our vital 5 daily posts!) so perhaps instead of making every newbie introduce themselves on their own thread and then suffer the humiliation of having 3 replies (it's hurts the old ego!) we cud just let newbies throw themselves into the midst of it.  i remember a while ago when someone posted that they were felt ignored because ppl bothered to read their thread but few posted.  A kinder approach to all new faces may go some way towards a nicer atmosphere rather than a clique one. I think the trend toward anon posting is something we need to address because some posters may feel that they might get judged harshly or that their opinion may be criticised and they may get a 'rep' from it that stays with them. [quote]We must make a collective du'a to revive that love, respect and understanding between each and every one.   [/quote] Ameen.   P.S. Languages are fun but I think anything posted in other languages shud come with a translation!  ;) Bebzis are on me, folks!  []

Re: Direction of the board...
mujaahid4ever
01/01/04 at 07:23:19
Assalaamu Alaikum Warahmatulaahi Wabarakaatuhu Just a general observation if i may  :) I used to read the boards a couple of years back, but have only just returned about 2 weeks ago. The difference in this time has been immense, and sadly taken a downturn. Many of the regulars from back than seem to have dissapeared. Back than the atmosphere was different, it was lively, it was exciting, there was a lot of humour, posts were spontaneous, people said what was on their mind, sometimes it was even controversial, but people were tolerant, although they didnt always see eye to eye they rarely if ever got "abusive". The atmosphere seemed real, like that of a thriving, busy community, full of life!! My first impression when I returned recently, was the almost "sombre" mood of the board. The liveliness, the thriving community feel seems to have dissapeared. Its like i've returned to a once great city, where the buildings have been abandoned, where the people have moved on, and where those that remain talk of the good old days. I agree with sister Jannah that the posts do often seem "fake", in the sense people are not being themselves, but being something they feel others would expect them to be. The faults in people dont seem to show up, theres no spontaneous posting, its almost as if people are writing the posts, rereading them, correcting them, reading them again, and when they feel it sounds "acceptable", than posting it. Why this has happened its hard to say. Maybe Muslims now feel they need to behave in ways which those outside of Islaam would look at us and say "wow, look at these muslims, they really are not those mad fanatics, extremists the media make them out to be, they are angels". We seem to be being too nice, as in unrealistically nice and polite. We seem to be accepting the staus quo, seem to be allowing the media to pressure and push us into silence, where we only say what we really feel behind closed doors, and this is reflected here on this online community. The individuality in each and everyones character is dissapearing. Everyone is becoming the same, people are trying to be like the next person because they dont want to be seen/labelled as a "bad" muslim. They dont want to be seen as "different". People are not being themselves. They are putting on a front,  this leads to a sombre tone and an almost cold atmosphere. We all have faults, we all have our individual personalities, this is what makes each and every one of us unique, and this is what a thriving community feeds off. Take away individuality, or try and restrict it, and all you will end up with is an unrealistic, almost fake community atmosphere. This is my opinion of the change i have seen in the boards over 2 years. But thats all it is, my opinion. People may agree, people may dissagree. However if i have offended anyone with what i have said than i sincerely apologise. walaikumasalaam Mujaahid4ever

Re: Direction of the board...
timbuktu
01/01/04 at 07:45:36
[slm] i respectfully disagree with jannah & mujaahid4ever about "fake" & "disappearing individuality". i logged on as timbuktu, & normally i am a reticent person, but the open atmosphere has encouraged me to reveal much about myself that i wouldn't mention normally. i see sincerity, & see individuality, & i wouldn't be here if it wern't so. but i do see mature & authentic posts. if someone does not want to follow the scholars, he/she doesn't have to. we live in a free world. but "about the good old days", i wasn't here then, so i don't know. please give me a phrase with the name of a poster, so i can search the archives for some feel of that atmosphere everyone is talking about. if jannah.org seems so friendly to me now, it must have been "something" then. but if there are people who are hiding their problems or posting as anonymous because they feel intimidated, let them speak out. we should not let fear grip our brothers & sisters.
01/01/04 at 08:14:09
timbuktu

Re: Direction of the board...
mujaahid4ever
01/01/04 at 11:15:18
Assalaamu-alaikum warahmatulaahi wabarakaatuhu I'm not too familiar with this new layout as it used to be different back then, but if there is a feature that allows you to search old archives, i would suggest reading back to the time around 9/11 as i feel that at such a testing time, the muslims on this board were a shining example of unity and determination. I was highly impressed when i first came here, about the start of 2001. If there is a way to go back all the way to than, and read those old threads, i would be grateful Jazaakullah khair walaikumasalaam mujaahid4ever
01/01/04 at 11:17:46
mujaahid4ever

Re: Direction of the board...
strait-talkin-sis
01/01/04 at 12:24:47
[slm] Bro I'm an oldtimer here too (not legit but a lurker) and I often browse through the Madina Ark which has all the old threads, so whenever you're feeling nostalgic for ye good ole days, drop over and INDULGE inshallah. With due respect I just wanted to say a few things re: your previous post [quote]  the almost "sombre" mood of the board [/quote] How can it be otherwise, considering what the community is going through all over the world?? Would you rather that Muslims engaged in witty banter in the virtual world while facing prosecution and misery in the real world just to keep up a brave front and the illusion of a hip, with-it community? [quote] We seem to be accepting the staus quo, seem to be allowing the media to pressure and push us into silence, where we only say what we really feel behind closed doors, and this is reflected here on this online community [/quote] Unfortunately, all too true. In fact when we register here on the Madina board we sorta agree to "not say whatever we feel like" , isn't it? I've seen numerous reminders by sis jannah from my lurker days that govt agencies and nosy reporters have the spotlight on Muslim sites like these, all the better to spot wannabe terrorists  with ::) So it does make sense to watch what one says. What's the harm in being extra "nice and polite" to our fellow Muslim bros and sisters? As it is we see very little of that in real life and from what I've seen of the other virtual communities they're extraordinarily vicious...that's what is jannah.org's USP as far as I'm concerned-- the fact that it's a friendly, civil  place where no one is taking their anonymity as a license to be obnoxious to others and everyone learns good Islamic manners while they're here. That said, let me confess even I miss the old timers ...they were a kewl lot and we really don't see enough of them around. Calling Ship to Shore:  sisters Maliha, deenb4dunya, Kathy (just to name a few) and brs bhaloo, Bro Hanif and mujahid (is it true what I picked up from the grapevine that he's now banned??) Care to come back here and share your thoughts ?

Re: Direction of the board...
se7en
01/01/04 at 12:34:39
as salaamu alaykum, I miss the days when Br. Khalid, Abu Khaled, Abdul Basir, Eleanor, Saleema, Abu_Hamza, Barr, Kathy, MF, Bhaloo, Mystic and countless others would post to a hot thread with ideas so intriguing, so thought provoking, so debate-able, that you found 15-20 others drawn to the discussion.. and it turned into one in which many great minds contributed their thoughts and you just learned so much. I think the problem is that people are just not writing anymore, or writing significantly *less* than they used to.  If most everyone is lurking and only a few are contributing, it's inevitable that the few people who do post tend to dominate with their opinions, their ideas, and their perspectives.. c'mon guys.. argue with me :) hehe wasalaamu alaykum :-)
01/01/04 at 12:35:46
se7en

Re: Direction of the board...
mujaahid4ever
01/01/04 at 13:22:59
Assalaamu-alaikum Strait Talking Sis Quote: How can it be otherwise, considering what the community is going through all over the world?? Would you rather that Muslims engaged in witty banter in the virtual world while facing prosecution and misery in the real world just to keep up a brave front and the illusion of a hip, with-it community? Sister i agree the Muslim community around the world is going through hard times, through persecution and misery. BUT its no good us sitting here feeling sorry for ourselves. Our Morale is low, we are demoralised, so what are we going to do about it? Sit here and feel sorry for ourselves? Or get up, dust ourselves down and make a change? Its time we gave ourselves a morale boost, its time we think positive, its time we start being thikners, planners and most of all dreamers, as all great things start as dreams. We need to pick each other up when our spirits are down, and make things happen. That doesnt mean we behave as if everything is fine, far from it, it means we need to accept things are bad, and make the changes, work hard to improve the situation. To quote a line from a cool rap song of a recently deceased artist: "......dont let them jack you up, back you up, crack you up.....you gotta learn to hold your own....... at the sound of my tune.... you say it aint cool.... but my mama didnt raise no fool....." Quote:  Unfortunately, all too true. In fact when we register here on the Madina board we sorta agree to "not say whatever we feel like" , isn't it? But isnt that the exact cause of a sombre/fake/unrealistic atmophere? I am not saying i'm intending on breaking the rules, but i've not seen such a rule. We are restricted on discussing certain issues, but i havnt seen a rule saying we cannot debate openly. Quote: What's the harm in being extra "nice and polite" to our fellow Muslim bros and sisters? As it is we see very little of that in real life and from what I've seen of the other virtual communities they're extraordinarily vicious...that's what is jannah.org's USP as far as I'm concerned-- the fact that it's a friendly, civil  place where no one is taking their anonymity as a license to be obnoxious to others and everyone learns good Islamic manners while they're here. Agree to a certain extent. However by doing so, we are not being ourselves, we are putting on a front. I'm not saying lets be vicious and go for each others throats, i am saying we need to stop trying so hard to be so nice. Just be yourselves. As long as you are respectful in the way you conduct yourselves, i dont see the need to make an "extra" effort to be so polite. Be cool, be relaxed, be chilled, but no need to be saints, because we ar enot saints. We are all individual and different, so should be ourselves, as long as we stay within the boundaries of the constitution. Walaikumasalaam m4e p.s. i have totally failed in my attempts to qoute the sisters words. Could somneone tell me how to quote someones words?  ;-)
01/01/04 at 13:33:32
mujaahid4ever

Re: Direction of the board...
faisalsb
01/01/04 at 14:30:33
[slm] Well I am not optimistic in strict sense but I think I can show some optimism over here. [quote]I think the problem is that people are just not writing anymore, or writing significantly *less* than they used to.  If most everyone is lurking and only a few are contributing, it's inevitable that the few people who do post tend to dominate with their opinions, their ideas, and their perspectives..   c'mon guys.. argue with me  [/quote] There is a phrase that "KNOWLEDGE SPEAKS AND WISDOM LISTENS" just wondering the knowledgable people might have taken a step forward towards wisdom? I can recall something from history which might be relevant to the topic once a person asked Hazrat Ali (RAU) that in era of earlier Khulfa-e-Rashdeen it was peace and prosperity everywhere but in your era there are a lot of problems and conflicts, why is that? Hazrat Ali (RAU) replied in the time of earlier Khufa-e-Rashdeen they had advisors like me and in my time I have advisors like you .....

Re: Direction of the board...
ltcorpest2
01/01/04 at 15:10:09
muj 4 ever  as far as quoting good luck.  I have tried and tried and was able to do it only one time.  andd people have expalined it over and over and over.  But i am sure you are not as lame as i am.

Re: Direction of the board...
Tesseract
01/01/04 at 18:14:22
Assalamu 'Alaikum wa Rahmatullah,         I may be wrong in my opinion and observation, but I don't see the admins and mods. doing their job the way they used to do. U don't blame the common people for doing something wrong until u make sure that the "people in power" did their job the way they were supposed to do. If this board needs to be run by teamwork, then show the "teamwork". One person alone cannot run the whole board, that's an established fact. So, if the teamwork is not there, work on the teamwork first. Good people are still here, its just that that they are not doing the good the way they used to do, for whatever reason. And, ofcourse, Allah knows the Best. Wassalam. ps: This post is not meant to single-out someone.

Re: Direction of the board...
strait-talkin-sis
01/01/04 at 22:18:02
[slm] Bro m4e, for quotes (v.useful in Madina quote-athons :P) click on Help For more info on "not saying whatever you feel" read your copy of the Madina constitution. It's free!! A sample: SPECIAL NOTE: Basically this constitution is saying that we all agree to curb what we say on this board. Some people may disagree with that and that is fine. They might have issues with it and think they should be able to say whatever they want, whenever they want because they are "enjoining the good and forbidding the evil". That is fine for them, but there are rules on this board to protect every citizen and guest. These rules are here for a tried and true reason, because we the moderators have seen what happens when those rules are not there. To continue this board in the way we would like and to fulfill its goal everyone must agree to and follow these rules despite the impulses they have. It is important to understand that this board is not Islam, it is not the last word, it is not the Khilafah, nor is it the free Islamic press. It is just a message board with rules and principles guiding its progress and interaction. Therefore you are not allowed to say whatever you want even if it is or you believe it to be 'correct' Islamically. Through this constitution we have all agreed to these rules of posting here for the betterment of all Madina citizens and guests, InshaAllah. If you seriously don't think you can agree with this that is fine InshaAllah. We understand why some people might disagree on principle. If so, this Madina is not for you. See you around inshaAllah
01/01/04 at 22:20:08
strait-talkin-sis

Re: Direction of the board...
bhaloo
01/01/04 at 22:36:29
[slm] The Direction of the Board ===================== I've read through all the comments on  here and some of them are right on, others are exaggerated,  while some are completely off.  It seems like there is confusion on the very issue of what should be the direction of the board.   Everyone has their idea of how a board should work and how it shouldn't.  Obviously everyone can't have their way. There is a lot of work that goes into maintaining the board and in establishing a "direction for the board", believe it or not.   In the beginning when we established the board, all posts had to go through an approval process and everyone sent an email that was forwarded to me and jannah, and we both decided on what was approved and what wasn't, and we decided when we were going to even put up certain posts.   Some posts were purposely delayed because we wanted to have sufficient time to address the points in the post.  This type of message board had some advatages in that we were able to not approve silly posts, inappropriate posts, and posts that were contrary to mainstream Islamic values.  We started to notice that we had a regular following of users that were there to help people, and the nice thing about these people were that they made the most of their posts.  They took the time to write out their posts in detail and address all issues that the questioner might have because they knew it would take us a few days to approve a 2nd posts of theirs and of the questioners, so they wanted to make the most of their 1st attempt at posting. We were then ready to make the next jump, a jump to a message board, similiar to this one we have here (though with some fewer features).  I really wanted to keep the anonymous feature, because i saw that people that needed help didn't want to disclose who they were, and so we had this feature in the new board, and we gave users the capability to log in to the board and post without the need of being approved.  It was a big step for  us, and at first quite a few of the users from the old board didn't join up right away, but after some time and seeing how the board developed they signed up.  Jannah wanted to add 5 moderators to the board, so she came up with her list and I came up with mine.  We picked the same people: Panjul, Abu Hamza, Se7en, Kashif, Asim.  (or maybe we added Panjul a little later, I forgot).  These people, together with myself and Jannah, posted about 70% of the posts on the board.   This was the direction of the board.  These were the people that established it.    This was the time, or at least the start of time when this board kicked butt!!!  Alhumdullilah, these people had very balanced views on Islam, they were great to work with, and we saw eye to eye on just about everything.  This was a time when I would just sit and listen to Panjul, Kashif, and Abu Hamza discuss intense topics in the UCC and listen in amazement (and didn't participate).    I viewed the board as my house, and the people above as my family, everyone else was a guest visiting this house and they had to get along with the people in the house.   I did everything in my power to make sure these people, the ones that set the direction of the board were happy.  Every day I would think to myself, hmmmm, is each and everyone of them happy, if not what can I do, so they will like this place more and stay here.   That was my goal to make sure these people were happy.   They did a wonderful job of making sure discussions and posts stayed in check and that correct knowledge of Islam was spread, that scholars weren't insulted, etc.   From the wonderful manners of these people and from the people that needed help, more and more people joined the board and wanted to be part of our family.  There was a time when I used to welcome each and every person that joined the board and introduced them to "my family" and made them feel like they belonged.  I'd joke around with them, bring them into the discussions, so they wouldn't feel like strangers.  That takes effort I don't have the time to do that all the time. For me personally I assign certain tasks a higher priority then others.  Like if someone is attacking Islam and other Muslims, I assign that a higher task then helping someone that may need help on the board.  And after 9/11, that's all I saw happening, so I was spending a lot of energy defending Islam and other Muslims from attacks on the board, then getting an opportunity to deal with people's problems.  And I'm only human so I get burned out as well, and that's why I like to joke around on the board every now and then.    Yeah, many of those original family members are there, but they aren't participating, for whatever reason, well some of the reasons I know and they are valid and I agree with them.    But on the bright side, I look at the board, and alhumdullilah most of the people on here are pretty good people.  I see someone like Bulwark of Islam and he reminds me of Abu Hamza in the early days, I see Maliha's posts on here and I always go mashallah, how blessed are we to have someone like her on here, an ispiration for us all, Sophia and her wonderful posts, and a few more. Hmmmm, I actually have a lot to say on the direction of the board, but this will suffice for now. [quote] I may be wrong in my opinion and observation, but I don't see the admins and mods. doing their job the way they used to do. [/quote] BOI, you are absoultely right.  Every single one of them is to blame, myself included.  Things aren't going to change unless we take the time and effort to make that change.  The question is, is everyone up to the challenge? [quote] I think the problem is that people are just not writing anymore, or writing significantly *less* than they used to.  If most everyone is lurking and only a few are contributing, it's inevitable that the few people who do post tend to dominate with their opinions, their ideas, and their perspectives..   [/quote] I agree with that Se7en.  I agree with Faisal's reference to the saying from Ali (ra).  The people now aren't the same people as "my family".
01/01/04 at 22:38:41
bhaloo

Re: Direction of the board...
sis
01/01/04 at 23:17:45
bismillah alrhman alrhim alsalamu alaykum wa rhmat Ullahi wa barakatuh  :) Subhan Allah ! Hmmm at the risk of sounding like an old timer....i used to come to this board when it  first looked like a note pad with a ton of post-it notes everywhere ;) I see what everyone is saying and most of it is relevant but you know i think we all have to remember (like many of you have mentionned) this board does in a way reflect the state of the ummah. I think about it over and over again, about why everything seems to have slowed down, efforts don't seem to have as much weight as they used too, spirits aren't as strong as before. And someone summed it  up well by mentionning that the muslim community's iman is at a trough in a wave. For some reason, we have let our iman take a beating. No doubt everyone is a bit exhausted by all that's happened in the past years. What i really miss is the drive everyone used to have to keep working through that exhaustion to reach our goal. Whether it be posts on the board or actions in real life. I find it so heart breaking that when we reach  a point of strength, we seem to loosen our grip. Is it just another example of the saying 'what goes up must come down"? I doubt it. I really would love to see this place become a thriving madina again. Allright, maybe my post wasn't so enlightening  ::) but i feel the change, within myself and the board  :( . May Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala reward the efforts behind this board and always guide us to what please Him ta'ala . Make dua' for each other  :-X walsalamu alaykum wa rhmat Ullahi wa barakatuh:)
01/01/04 at 23:20:49
sis

Re: Direction of the board...
Caraj
01/01/04 at 23:52:08
[quote author=bhaloo link=board=bebzi;num=1072696759;start=20#28 date=01/01/04 at 22:36:29][slm] The Direction of the Board ===================== I've read through all the comments on  here and some of them are right on, others are exaggerated,  while some are completely off.  It seems like there is confusion on the very issue of what should be the direction of the board.   Everyone has their idea of how a board should work and how it shouldn't.  Obviously everyone can't have their way. [/quote] I know I am putting myself out here and take the chance of getting squashed like a bug. The above comment, in my opinion is your opinion. What I am hearing is,  if you agree with someones comment it is cool and if you do not agree it is exaggeration. But to the ones who you feel are exaggerating,  it is their opinion and feels very real to them. An opinion is neither wrong nor right it is how a person (THAT PERSON) percieves the issue or discussion at hand. To say someones feelings, views and perceptions is exaggerated is to belittle and dismiss their feelings and opinions. I know I try to help others, I know I ask a lot of questions and advice, maybe I get to personal at times but I have been privately thanked for being so open and honest and it truly helped people at times when they were to embarrassed to ask about a situation. Others have told me to email them personally from now on as they do not post anymore cause of the tensions on this board. I know I myself I have stopped posting and twice in the last 2 years have asked Jannah to discontinue my citizenship. I am thankful she did not and allowed me time to cool down. I know I myself and a few others felt if we were not agreed with by a limited 2 or 3 we were squashed like bugs. But that's ok, cause there is over another 1,000 other people on the boards  :) I've grown to respect and care about all of you, maybe this board bloomed into something much bigger than Jannah and others expected or meant it to. But thats ok too. I just think if we can all try to be compassionate and kind and not take things personally and remember an opinion is a persons perception. We'll be fine. If we can voice disagreement with someone using dignity and respect, we'll be just fine Deal with each other as we would like others to deal with us. Encourage and uplift  each other in their Inam. I know I'm thankful I came to this sight and have had personal growth as a result of being here and learning and I hope to continue this growth. Also remember even in the most all together and loving families there are disagreements and moments of tension. I hope this all makes sense. I just went and read back over the constitution and I'd like to paste here something that is there: By (the Token of) Time (through the ages), Verily Man is in loss, Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy. Quran Chapter 103
01/02/04 at 00:00:18
Caraj

Re: Direction of the board...
UmmWafi
01/02/04 at 00:26:09
[slm] Alqalbu qalbaani....... ~ Abu Hafs al-Suhrawardi I would like to just take this opportunity to apologise sincerely if I have contributed in any way towards any negativity on the Board.  May Allah SWT and perhaps all of you forgive me. PS Sis Jannah - May you be Blessed with Strength and Courage to stick with the Board and make this ship go further than any ship before. Sunk or otherwise  ;D Wassalam

Re: Direction of the board...
timbuktu
01/02/04 at 00:33:05
[slm] [quote author=bhaloo link=board=bebzi;num=1072696759;start=20#28 date=01/01/04 at 22:36:29] ........ I agree with Faisal's reference to the saying from Ali (ra).  The people now aren't the same people as "my family". [/quote] food for thought here for us relatively new members who have been posting a lot. perhaps we need to step back, & read the "family's" old posts to see if we can adapt to be accepted as family.
01/02/04 at 00:34:33
timbuktu

Re: Direction of the board...
paula
01/02/04 at 04:13:47
[slm] Jannah… Jazak Allahu Khairan I sat here for a few days wondering for the life of me… ‘A sinking ship’. I couldn’t figure it out... I knew I missed a lot lately, but didn’t think I had missed that much. Bits & pieces that I have read over the course of the thread, which I myself mostly agree with in each of it’s elements as well. There have been some really good points that all ring true. But I think I got the picture now.   I reiterate Sister UmmWafi’s Post… I would like to apologize to any & everyone that I may have ever offended in [u]any[/u] manner, or any negative effects I personally may have contributed. If I ever do, please let me know so I may amend my ways... I do realize I am very humanistic in my own right. May Allah (swt) reward for all the assistance that has been offered to me through the great many posts here, directly & indirectly. There are many that would never realize the assistance they have offered ... but you each have been in my prayers & Allah knows Best. As Well Jannah: [quote]May you be Blessed with Strength & Courage to stick with the Board & make this ship go further than any ship before. Sunk or otherwise   [/quote] ~ Ameen One last thing that struck me since the beginning of this thread: Regardless of what is ever uttered by a person (forum or true to life), one quite basically, ‘hurts’ themselves by their intension & sincerity or lack thereof, far more than one shall ever ‘hurt’ another … Does that mean though a forum can survive, I suppose that depends on the desires/ vision of those in authority & only as Allah (swt) allows. As Always ... Allah (swt) knows best [wlm]
01/02/04 at 04:45:37
paula

Re: Direction of the board...
strait-talkin-sis
01/02/04 at 04:19:10
[slm] After reading Br Bhaloo's post I thought to myself:  OMG what am I doing here? [quote] : Panjul, Abu Hamza, Se7en, Kashif, Asim.  (or maybe we added Panjul a little later, I forgot).  These people, together with myself and Jannah, posted about 70% of the posts on the board.   This was the direction of the board.  [/quote] [quote] I viewed the board as my house, and the people above as my family, everyone else was a guest visiting this house and they had to get along with the people in the house.   I did everything in my power to make sure these people, the ones that set the direction of the board were happy.  Every day I would think to myself, hmmmm, is each and everyone of them happy, if not what can I do, so they will like this place more and stay here.   That was my goal to make sure these people were happy. [/quote]   [quote] The people now aren't the same people as "my family".   [/quote] Don't know if there's more to this emotional outburst than what meets the eye, but basically what I could make out was: 1. The clearly stated goal of this board is to make the mods and admins happy. 2. Everyone who agrees with them/emulates their style of posting/meets their personal approval is welcome to stay (....what about the rest???) 3. A happy admin maketh a thriving warm board 4. All members are actually "guests" ...go figure...and had better get along with the powers that be or else..... 5. The basis for deciding brotherhood/sisterhood/coolness quotient depends upon how old a member you are. If you aren't an OldSkool .....forget it. The question is, why go to the bother and expense of hosting this board when all you need to do is exchange e-mails with each other and keep the warm, fuzzy feeling flowing? Correct me if I'm wrong PUHLEEEASE... And the only reason I keep posting on this thread is that (believe it or not) I really love this place and truly appreciate all the hardwork, effort and LOVE that has  gone into making it what it is. Yet something tells me I'd be better off in lurker mode, especially after this last bit of straight-talkin. PS. Anyone who cares to respond to my post, please don't bother picking a fight...I'm not about to be drawn into a wrangling match. If anyone genuinely  wants to/cares to refute my conclusions they're welcome...
01/02/04 at 05:02:59
strait-talkin-sis

Re: Direction of the board...
Halima
01/02/04 at 05:29:50
[quote]A sample:   SPECIAL NOTE: Basically this constitution is saying that we all agree to curb what we say on this board. Some people may disagree with that and that is fine. They might have issues with it and think they should be able to say whatever they want, whenever they want because they are "enjoining the good and forbidding the evil". That is fine for them, but there are rules on this board to protect every citizen and guest.   These rules are here for a tried and true reason, because we the moderators have seen what happens when those rules are not there. To continue this board in the way we would like and to fulfill its goal everyone must agree to and follow these rules despite the impulses they have. It is important to understand that this board is not Islam, it is not the last word, it is not the Khilafah, nor is it the free Islamic press. It is just a message board with rules and principles guiding its progress and interaction. Therefore you are not allowed to say whatever you want even if it is or you believe it to be 'correct' Islamically.   Through this constitution we have all agreed to these rules of posting here for the betterment of all Madina citizens and guests, InshaAllah. If you seriously don't think you can agree with this that is fine InshaAllah. We understand why some people might disagree on principle. If so, this Madina is not for you.[/quote] Part of the fear factor crops up from the constitution and part of it from people who assume to know it all hence shoot down all other opinions with such cruelty sometimes that it shocks me.   With the constituion in mind, you have to do a balancing act when planning to post.  So, you have to edit, re-edit before you post.  Having a constitution is a good idea, but the constitution is not carved in stone and could be updated from time.  Rigidity breads fear and fear makes people refrain from being honest.  Without honesty, we have hypocracy which leads to fakeness.  The constitution should be a guiding tool which remindes us of our duty to be human, tolerant, understanding and correcting others with utmost wisdom.   The moderators are among the people who assume to know it all.  An example is Brother bhaloo.  There was a post in which he was so cruel to Sis azizah it really shocked me.  I guess with his knowledge of Islam, I did not expect that from him.  I am saying this without malice or defending Sis azizah who by the way is capable of defending herself quite well.  Bro. bhaloo is one of brothers I "met" before I knew the the existence of jannah.org  And he struck me someone gentle.   Just want to tell Bro. bhaloo that being a moderator is not only responsibility for him and the others but also duty to lead and guide your madina community with good example of Hikmah and tolerance.  I know that you are human and can be provoked, but brother, exercise good judgement with restraint in accordance with your position and especially to non-Muslims.  Guide them to Islam don't shun them away. [quote]We picked the same people: Panjul, Abu Hamza, Se7en, Kashif, Asim.  (or maybe we added Panjul a little later, I forgot).  These people, together with myself and Jannah, posted about 70% of the posts on the board.   This was the direction of the board.  These were the people that established it.    This was the time, or at least the start of time when this board kicked butt!!!  Alhumdullilah, these people had very balanced views on Islam, they were great to work with, and we saw eye to eye on just about everything.  This was a time when I would just sit and listen to Panjul, Kashif, and Abu Hamza discuss intense topics in the UCC and listen in amazement (and didn't participate).    I viewed the board as my house, and the people above as my family, everyone else was a guest visiting this house and they had to get along with the people in the house.   I did everything in my power to make sure these people, the ones that set the direction of the board were happy.  Every day I would think to myself, hmmmm, is each and everyone of them happy, if not what can I do, so they will like this place more and stay here.   That was my goal to make sure these people were happy.   They did a wonderful job of making sure discussions and posts stayed in check and that correct knowledge of Islam was spread, that scholars weren't insulted, etc.   From the wonderful manners of these people and from the people that needed help, more and more people joined the board and wanted to be part of our family.  There was a time when I used to welcome each and every person that joined the board and introduced them to "my family" and made them feel like they belonged.  I'd joke around with them, bring them into the discussions, so they wouldn't feel like strangers.  That takes effort I don't have the time to do that all the time.[/quote] Ah brother bhaloo!  So, you mean anybody who is not the people you have listed does not count?  How sad for you! By the way, I do not mind who the moderators are and I applaud their work and efforts but to trash other members just because they are not moderators!  So, the rest of us make the board what?  An infested house?  And the opinions of the 1,000 plus members the moderators aside are what?  Useless?  Was this board/site created for just a chosen few?  If so, then the option of registering should not have been there.  I thought jannah wanted people to register, be members, share in the discussions, respect each other.   Respect, understanding, etc., are all two streets.  Respect is also earned and not bought.  I value the opinions of everyone here, whether they have been here since the inception of this board are joining now.   There are times that I have put my foot in my mouth and on one occassion been very rude to UmmWafi.  I regretted that very much.  I have faults, I am human, I am older but I am not above reproach.  If we all realized that, then we could co-exist.  I for one enjoy this board and site very much.  I want to say here that I will not be put off by a few people because there are wonderful people here as well.  Unless jannah terminates my membership, then I am here to stay.   Communities thrive on diversity.  New members should not be made to feel like second class citizens.  We have enough of that already in our living environments let's not import it here, please.  The "old" members need to be tolerant, accomaditing and accepting. I have read posts here that have made realize that I don't know as much as I thought I knew.  Learning is a continuous process and learning is not only derived from books but also from people.  I am happy to ''know" and "meet" people here who are not from my background.  For they have lessons to teach me and I can learn some more from them. Bro. bhaloo you can kill me if you want.  You are allowed. Halima

Re: Direction of the board...
sofia
01/02/04 at 10:46:41
[slm] Just wanted to reiterate what Umm Wafi added: [quote]I would like to just take this opportunity to apologise sincerely if I have contributed in any way towards any negativity on the Board.  May Allah SubHana Wa Ta`ala and perhaps all of you forgive me. PS Sis Jannah - May you be Blessed with Strength and Courage to stick with the Board and make this ship go further than any ship before.[/quote] Yeah, please forgive me, too. And may Allah reward you all. Btw--things rarely ever stay the same. Insha'Allah, khayr. May the fruits outweigh the...bad things. And may we all evolve into something better, insha'Allah, aameen. :)
01/02/04 at 10:49:02
sofia

Re: Direction of the board...
jannah
01/02/04 at 11:48:34
[slm] Thanks for all your posts. They've been interesting to read. Just to put everything in perspective, this *is* just a message board. Let's be constructive. I really think that there are a few things that we had in the past that were positive that we don't have now (as well as negative we have now we didn't have then). First I think we should work on: [list] [*] Positive Islamic posts and articles enjoining each other to good stuff and building Imaan instead of critical one's within other people's threads. Like there's a big difference in posting an article about benefits of hijab in it's own thread than from posting the same type of comments right in the middle of someones thread about say fashion. This is called wisdom in dawah. [*] Building community by getting to know each other's lives and struggles through out different discussions and posts. The more anonymous we are the more we hate each other and are not willing to understand and have mercy for each other's struggles and deficiencies. (By the way, you can have an excellent community even if you have 20,000 users.) [*]Also, I think we have to understand that anything in life including this message board will only be as good as we make it to be. There is a reason why the Prophet (s) said the believers are mirrors of each other.  If we are intolerant then others will be intolerant of us, if we are respectful others will respect us.  If we don't respond to others how can we expect others to respond to us. If we are closed and judgemental how can we expect others to welcome us with open arms. [/list] And we should avoid: [list] [*] "That sounds haram to me" posts. Since I feel uncomfortable with it or am at a level of Islam where I don't do it, no one else should or talk about it. [*]  Judgemental "I don't think you're following Islam right" "I don't think you're a good enough Muslim" posts. We should be mature enough to admit that people do practice Islam differently and people do have different legitimate opinions on issues. [*] Here's my cut and paste fatwa about such and such topic. There is no need. We all know how to cut and paste. [*]  Temper tantrum posts instead of well thought out discussions (I admit to many myself) [*] Make clear that our posts are our "opinions" and shouldn't be taken as uniform law or the be all end all way to be,  because we are all influenced by culture, experience, different islamic learning, etc. [*] Censoring our posts for fear of what people may "think" or "say". Let's just be honest with each other and ourselves and learn to respect each others opinions even if we think it's wrong. [/list] And I'm sure we can add as we go on... So in the end I think it's a matter of understanding that we all have the same goal here, which is Islam and being better Muslims but also that we are very different people and we need to respect each other's differences of opinion and struggles. I am the first of you to make mistakes, many many of them, the first to need these reminders over and over again and I will be the first to be held accountable. But that doesn't mean we can't learn from our mistakes and change.

Re: Direction of the board...
Maliha
01/02/04 at 11:58:06
[slm] wow...all this sadness and negativity what's up y'all??? This place still really ROX  ;D and i am not in Denial  :P i think we all need to take a step back and figure out how each of us are contributing and whether it is positively or negatively. seriously. I remember,  a deep bro on the board (hyper), once pointed out to me that if I am a hijabi, self proclaimed Muslimah then why am I sooo harsh in my posts???! It really struck a chord in me and i began to reflect on the gentleness of the Rasul  [saw] and felt really, really bad...i don't know if i have improved any..but hey, it did make me think :-[ Anywho, i just wanna say sorry too to all you silent lurkers, and non silent ones, if i was ever mean, offensive, or rude and brash...sometimes we get typin' happy and forget that even words have essences..and when we misuse them they actually hurt. guys, also don't jump to conclusions...*cough* on bhaloo *cough*...i didn't really see what you guys are talking about...he was reminiscing on how the board started..i came much later and i love it here. My real life has been completely altered by the depth, and awesomeness of the many posters coming and going...and every new person comes with a different dimension, and an angle that we are forced to reckon with and learn from..its really still largely positive. Jannah, you deserve the very best and more:):):) May Allah reward you abundantly..for the haven you have created here is by far the coziest, warmest little enclave i have ever come across :-*   sis in struggle, :-) [wlm]

Re: Direction of the board...
bhaloo
01/02/04 at 12:58:43
[slm] [quote author=strait-talkin-sis link=board=bebzi;num=1072696759;start=30#34 date=01/02/04 at 04:19:10] Don't know if there's more to this emotional outburst than what meets the eye, but basically what I could make out was: 1. The clearly stated goal of this board is to make the mods and admins happy. [/quote] How did you arrive at such a conclusion?  I said that was *MY* goal, and it was my goal because I wanted these people to continue to post and *CONTINUE* to set the "direction of the board".  I didn't say that was the goal of this board.   [quote] 2. Everyone who agrees with them/emulates their style of posting/meets their personal approval is welcome to stay (....what about the rest???) [/quote] Everyone that conforms to those standards adds to the harmony of the board.  Don't you agree?  Naturally conflicts may arise, but we should have certain ideals.   Don't you think people should work within that framework, or do you think people should just come on here and hijack the board and make it go in their own direction?   That is also one of the reasons why we put in a 5 post a limit day, because certain people were changing the direction of the board as well as the board became their whole life. [quote] 3. A happy admin maketh a thriving warm board 4. All members are actually "guests" ...go figure...and had better get along with the powers that be or else..... [/quote] Yes, all members are guests here, they agree to abide by the rules of the constitution we established here.  If they don't like the rules, then they should leave.  The board isn't intended to be for everyone. [quote] 5. The basis for deciding brotherhood/sisterhood/coolness quotient depends upon how old a member you are. If you aren't an OldSkool .....forget it. [/quote] I think you meant "in" OldSkool, because being "an" OldSkool might be offensive to some people.  The OldSkool title refers to people that Jannah has personally met, or knows really well  Certainly being an old member doesn't determine how cool you are.  Its true that many of the people from that era helped to establish the direction of the board.  There are quite a few new-new people on the board that do a good job:  Bulwark of Islam, Timbuktu, Ahmad, Justone.    And there are a lot of oldies, and oldie-newbies, semi-newbies, semi-oldies and newbies that do a good job, but unfortunately they aren't being encouraged to post more. [quote] The question is, why go to the bother and expense of hosting this board when all you need to do is exchange e-mails with each other and keep the warm, fuzzy feeling flowing? Correct me if I'm wrong PUHLEEEASE... [/quote] This is addressed in the constituion: [i] Madinatul Muslimeen has been founded and built to be a fun, informative place so Muslims can get to know each other and support each other in becoming better Muslims. [/i] Timbuktu said: [quote] food for thought here for us relatively new members who have been posting a lot. perhaps we need to step back, & read the "family's" old posts to see if we can adapt to be accepted as family. [/quote] Excellent question, sorry I forgot the link, Se7en can insha'Allah help out.  At least it will give an idea of how the board was, insha'Allah. Halima said: [quote] Ah brother bhaloo!  So, you mean anybody who is not the people you have listed does not count? [/quote] No, I didn't say that. [quote] By the way, I do not mind who the moderators are and I applaud their work and efforts but to trash other members just because they are not moderators!   [/quote] I don't know how you arrived at this conclusion?   I was trying to describe for you the people that set the direction of the board, the people that posted 70% of the posts on here.  It certainly doesn't hurt to see how the posts were then, does it?  My favorite poster and in my opinion the most knowledgable person on the board wasn't part of the moderating team.  I begged and pleaded with him to stay, but he told me things had changed on the board, as did another brother I respect greatly, so they both left.   Halima, I'm not certain how you can say every opinion should be valued.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't mean we need to respect it or value it.   As an example, the imaam that said it was ok for women not to wear hijab in non-muslim countries, or the islamic organization that said they approved of Bush's bombing of muslim countries.  I don't respect or value those opinions, how can I. [quote] Bro. bhaloo you can kill me if you want.  You are allowed. [/quote] Not today, maybe some other time. ;) sis said: [quote] someone summed it  up well by mentionning that the muslim community's iman is at a trough in a wave. For some reason, we have let our iman take a beating. No doubt everyone is a bit exhausted by all that's happened in the past years. What i really miss is the drive everyone used to have to keep working through that exhaustion to reach our goal. Whether it be posts on the board or actions in real life. I find it so heart breaking that when we reach  a point of strength, we seem to loosen our grip. [/quote] Very true.

Re: Direction of the board...
bhaloo
01/02/04 at 15:02:28
[slm] Thanks Maliha, you understood what I was trying to say, jazak Allah khairen. :) [quote author=Nur_al_Layl link=board=bebzi;num=1072696759;start=30#38 date=01/02/04 at 11:58:06] [slm] I remember,  a deep bro on the board (hyper), once pointed out to me that if I am a hijabi, self proclaimed Muslimah then why am I sooo harsh in my posts???! It really struck a chord in me and i began to reflect on the gentleness of the Rasul  [saw] and felt really, really bad...i don't know if i have improved any..but hey, it did make me think :-[[/quote] That sounds wack.  I always look forward to reading your posts, and lately these last few months they have been an inspiration for all, encouraging people to good, mashallah.   I remember recently when you gave me some naseeah in private about Richard, and some may have thought it was harsh if they had read it, but I thought it was great and I can't think of a single post you put up that was inappropriate, well except back in the day when you wrote those 100 line poems, hehehehe, but you learned and were new.  :P Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah (d.728H) -–rahimahullaah – said, “The Believer to the Believer is like two hands, one of them washing the other.  And indeed the dirt cannot be removed, except by some form of coarseness.  So cleanliness and softness only comes about by obligating that initial roughness.”
01/02/04 at 15:03:14
bhaloo

Re: Direction of the board...
Nazia
01/02/04 at 18:48:22
Assalamu Alaikum :) I don't really have much to say, infact most of you guys probably don't know me.  I'm one of those "2000-2001" posters :) I was never a hard core poster but I did write, and definitely visited the board often.  Anyways, some of you mentioned the old-timers--saleema, abu khaled, etc.  Are they still around? New screen names?  Also, I wanted to let you know that at this VERY moment, I'm cooking rice in the rice cooker you guys gave me for my wedding! :) so sweet. :) ALSO,  I visited this board after many months searching for the Hajj section that was often added around this time of year. Do you still do that?? I couldn't find it.  But Insha'Allah, the hubby and I will be making Hajj in a few weeks so I was hoping to get some input from you folks. by the way---cool smileys! Back when I was a regular the newest thing we had was the hijabi/bearded smileys. :) Take Care! Wassalam, Nazia
01/02/04 at 18:50:01
Nazia

Re: Direction of the board...
AyeshaZ
01/02/04 at 22:50:03
[slm] Insha'Allah all is well with everyone! i skimmed through most of the posts, if i am redundant my apologies!   ;) Alhamdullilah, i *too* like many was a lurker before a member.. I've taken this board  like most things in my life for granted.. expecting it to be there... i've had many laughs, cries and takbeers on this board! :) BarakAllah fikum

Re: Direction of the board...
timbuktu
01/03/04 at 00:04:45
[slm] thanks all for clearing up many points, & to brother Arshad, for including me in the list of those who are doing a good job, so my membership of the board is not under immediate threat  ;) Jannah said: [quote] Here's my cut and paste fatwa about such and such topic. There is no need. We all know how to cut and paste[/quote] my request is to allow cut-n-paste. It make the life of ignorant & lazy ones like me somewhat easy. Sometimes when one clicks on a link, the material has been removed (some sites allow free access only for a short period), it may be archived, & one may need to go through a lot of reading to find the relevant one. So, my request is to allow cut-n-paste, although an insistence on one's preferred scholar should perhaps be disallowed. ----- However, i think all of us are contributing positively in their own way. Certainly, for the individual too the limit of posts is in his/her own interest. & i don't mind the moderators/ administrators being a family unto themselves. They have a tough job to do, & naturally those you have met physically or over a long time, will be closer to your heart. i have looked at some of the oldSkool posts & yes, the tone was very friendly, & that i think i can achieve, but i do lack some talent, so if the family does not accept me, it is OK :) i wouldn't want to be a fake in order to be accepted. ----- i do wonder if we sound too harsh at times. i remember a sister who wanted to become a muslim, & one of us told her she will have to stop all interaction with non-muslims, & that frightened her, & she backed off because she said that all her relatives & friends & acquaintances were non-muslim & she couldn't give them up, & she was right. she never came back. i think this ruling was not intended to be extreme, and the choice of words spoken to her was not appropriate. We born-muslims do not stop interaction with non-muslims, so how can we expect the same from a revert. I tried to explain, but she had probably given up. If not, & if she is still lurking: i will repeat to her what i said then. ask yourself if the basic beliefs of Islam are what you accept. If so, then declare the shahada, the practice comes afterwards, & one keeps on renewing & improving one's faith & practice. The most important point is the shahada in the heart & in words. The practice comes afterwards. If my behavior were to be judged in accordance with the rulings, then although i am nearly at the end of my life-expectancy, i will be found wanting severely, & i now realize that although i talk all the time of going to the highest Jannah of Allah (Firdaws-e-a3laa) , i have done & am doing nothing to get there. :( i remember the Hadith which goes something like when Hind & other women came for Baiya to the prophet [saw], & promised to be very strict in their observance of Islam, the prophet [saw] said something like "no, say i will do to the best of my ability". does everyone see the hikmah in this? and at another time, the prophet [saw] is reported to have said something like: Islam is ease, make it easy for people to come to islam & observe it. i look at ourselves, & i wonder whether we are doing islam a disservice, by being too strict. perhaps it is necessary like it was in the times of ibne Taimiyya, when the mixing of Christians & others with muslims had brought on an avalanche of bid`a, & the suffering of muslims. Perhaps this is also a time like that, but we should go further back, & see the prophet's [saw] behavior. There will always be those who will continue on the original path set by the prophet [saw], but i think that the original path included dawa with hikmah, & ease for practicing islam. so it is this hikmah, this empathy, & this humility that we are also fallible, & probably make more mistakes than the ones we are chastizing, which need to be inculcated in ourselves. i would appreciate if what i say on this board is found to be without these qualities, then someone comes out & tells me that it is wrong & not acceptible. may Allah (swt) make me first & after that the others reflect & improve themselves, so that our niyyah (intention) is only for Allah's sake, & our life is in accordance with the Sunnah of the prophet, both visible & invisible. aameen
01/03/04 at 01:40:42
timbuktu

Re: Direction of the board...
strait-talkin-sis
01/03/04 at 00:58:08
[slm] Thanks for confirming in so many words what I had already concluded br bhaloo...as long as the different mods and admins of this board don't arrive at a consensus as to what is/isn't allowed here this kind of schizophrenic squashing of all 'other opinions' will continue. To paraphrase one of your own mods from another thread...this kind of high handedness and arrogance in your personal capacity would be fine, but to do so as the administrator of a purportedly Islaamic board reeks of the "hypocrisy" and "fakeness" that you so often accuse other members of. Post 9/11, Muslims are getting used to doors slamming shut in their face, by saying  [quote] The board isn't intended to be for everyone [/quote] you've just joined the club. I'm outta here...your collective attitude has finally put me off this place.....inshaAllah for life...

Re: Direction of the board...
Nomi
01/03/04 at 05:36:37
[slm] [quote author=bhaloo link=board=bebzi;num=1072696759;start=30#39 date=01/02/04 at 12:58:43]Everyone that conforms to those standards adds to the harmony of the board.  Don't you agree?  Naturally conflicts may arise, but we should have certain ideals.   Don't you think people should work within that framework, or do you think people should just come on here and hijack the board and make it go in their own direction?   That is also one of the reasons why we put in a 5 post a limit day, because certain people were changing the direction of the board as well as the board became their whole life [/quote] Two things, about the highlighted text. 1] Those who "intentionally" keep on going against the constitution will obviously be banned. Example = samr etc. So there is no need of thinking out loud about this thing "in this time" as ppl are getting you wrong. 2] About the second bold text: Lets be very careful in selection of our words as there are many ppl on here who are "the only muslims" in their family or the only muslim family in their community and this board (and few others like this one) might indeed be their life. If you wanna name names then go ahead you are welcome but i request you not to make general remarks like this one. Last thing i expect is some announcement in HQ saying the board is closed for a weak or so so that ppl may reasses their neeyah or something as to why they are here... i also request in advance to not to do something like this. May be i'm sounding wack but whatever the team posts from now on please please, first discuss that in your secret forums to take suggestions from other mods as Allah has put immense barakah in the process of asking for suggestions. Invite knowledgeable people like sis Nur, BroHanif, bro timbuktu to your secret forums if you have to, to ask their opinion and only then bring the issue up. I'm not doubting your abilities as we undoubtably have the best admin team. [slm] and I end this with a smiley :) .... ok two smilies :)
01/03/04 at 05:42:53
Nomi

Re: Direction of the board...
jannah
01/03/04 at 08:40:08
[quote author=strait-talkin-sis link=board=bebzi;num=1072696759;start=40#44 date=01/03/04 at 00:58:08]      [slm] Thanks for confirming in so many words what I had already concluded br bhaloo...as long as the different mods and admins of this board don't arrive at a consensus as to what is/isn't allowed here this kind of schizophrenic squashing of all 'other opinions' will continue. [/quote] [wlm] I don't think you have understood the point of all these posts so far in this thread. What we are talking about is an opening up of allowing people to say what they want and to share their life and struggles without fear from /and instead of forcing one person's idea of what is halal and haram upon them. [quote] The board isn't intended to be for everyone [/quote] I really have to agree with that even if that makes you leave sister. This board isn't for those who want to use it for their agenda.. whether it be an organization or a person's certain "brand" of Islam. This is a board for real people, real Muslims to share and help each other.  Read the constitution. We have developed guidelines and purpose for this board. This is something the mods and admins HAVE come to a consensus on and who all who have registered have purportedly agreed with. If someone doesn't agree with it they are really free to stop participating. And they are welcome to find a board out there they agree with..  there are alot of boards out there... like one's who are very strict in what they consider halal and haram and others that are completely free. I like to think we've come to some kind of compromise which is allowing people's free interaction within some limits like not disrespecting others and not letting free reign to crazyness.. but Allahu alam Let's get back to constructive criticism.... timbuktu thanx for your post about the cut&paste fatwas issue.. we've discussed this extensively in the past and have come to the conclusion that sometimes the way it is done is more harmful than beneficial to people. your example of the sister leaving islam is exactly a good reason and there are more arguments. i'll try to find those or elaborate further later inshallah..
01/03/04 at 08:46:26
jannah

Re: Direction of the board...
amatullah
01/03/04 at 08:45:47
[slm] I think it is true that for most of the members it has been a feeling of both, contributing to the negativity as well as feeling like they are on the receiving end. So maybe it is normal for a message board? For the most part, I still see it as a positive place. A few points for me personaly: -I think a great thank you is due to sister se7en and br. Bhaloo for keeping the direction of the board healthy in their different ways masha'Allah. They have either stood up for the truth when it was difficult or really had thoughtful responses that i learn alot from. - I used to lurk in the time I think you were mentioning. I don't know if it is much better a time except for the mods and the "club" as people implied.  Many times it felt like it was private conversations. I do miss the posts of some of the people though, like Kashif and Abu khaled, or was it the other one like his name that i always confused ??? -In terms of "hyppocracy" and "fake", in my own experience here, if someone writes something about a wrong thing they do they will get more support than if another write to encourage someone to do better (in the right thread mind you). I am not saying they should not get support, they should. But I don't think that to state the sunna point of view should be so disoucaraged. I think this is where the fakenss and hyppocracy really is. If ahadeeth, and ayas and ex. of past lives are not valid, then I don't know what is. Hidaya if from Allah, all of us with our different ways are only reasons or catalysts.  And so the best way is to keep the religion as is regardless of our different approaches. I don't think curbing Islam for da'wah works. I am not saying this is something that happens alot, but it does happen. And when it does it way more readily accepted than say the opposite end of hte spectrum, if someone is pushing for niqab or something. Ok it isn't right to push it either, but as soon as the topic comes up, the threat of closing the thread came up as I recall. I don't wear niqab, but I didn't understand why such topics were discouraged instead of opening up the door for muslimas to improve if they can/want to. I think for the baraka to fall upon this board we need to some introspection and clear our sincerity and strengthen our commitment for Allah as a whole. (In tansuru Allah, yansurkum is such a simple equation = for prosperity, victory, etc.) We have a Muslim girl here in Canada who wrote a book and is an open lesbian. She writes that the Quran has contradictions and hadeeth is not authentic sources, etc. That whole movement is huge following right now. Why do we wait to discuss these things and provide proof till it is too late? Instead of this way too lax attitude that gradually makes everything halal. If we don't make clear what islam is and forbid evil and enjoin what is good, the sunnah and the whole of this deen will be lost. I think we should be balanced in doing this ofcourse. But I feel a trend against any posts that do that period. I remember spending alot of time summerizing a Bilal Phillips video that dealt with sufism and it wasn't put in the reviews. Maybe my english is not the best, but the information is mostly understandable. I understand that there is a difference of opinion among scholars on some things, but alot of times i find that only one point of view of this difference is allowed to exist here even when both fall under the sunni point of view. This has been a reason for me not to post much but mostly read. I find it judgemental in that sense. But still it is more positive than negative and may Allah reward all those sisters and brothers who contribute positively. Maybe that is what you were talking about sis Jannah when you said halal and haram posts? Obviously it is not right to judge people, or where they are with their iman, only Allah knows that, BUT  i think it is equally important that the pure monotheism and clear creed does not get compromised either. I for one think it is possible to state it and discuss about it without being judgemental of a person. -I am sorry if I hurt any of my brothers and sisters and I ask them to forgive me and ask Allah to forgive me. -Fatwas are good! I love fatwas! haha I know sis Jannah is always on about not putting them up but I think in many cases they are not simply about halal and haram but also how to do certain things, and the meaning of others,etc. I for one like them because they explain better than me what I am trying to say. -My resolution insha'Allah to make it better is: not to respond when I first read something that upset me to non-muslims or missionaries who are always critical and judgemental and negative. Insha'Allah I will try to take the time out first. Although this is rare because most non-Muslims who come here are wonderful people who really want to learn, and have expressed positive attitudes towards Islamic teachings in some things at least.
01/03/04 at 09:06:25
amatullah

Re: Direction of the board...
Serena
01/03/04 at 21:03:35
Dear Respected Brothers and Sisters in Islam, Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu. I pray you are all in the best of health and iman, insha’Allah. Sister Jannah, I would just like to say that you are doing an amazing job with this website and message board. Throughout the four years I have been hanging around here I have seen people come and go, marriages begin, and unfortunately end, babies born, brothers and sisters convert…I have shared in others’ joys, fears and tears. My thoughts and prayers were with everyone, even if my words were absent. I have felt as if all of you were my home away from home. This place used to be one where someone could come to get away from their frustrations…to share a joke, sip some tea, or make a shout-out. And now it seems as if this is where someone comes to release that frustration. :( I remember all of the old timers that others have mentioned. These people were *great* contributors to this board, as well as many people still here, they would uplift you on your worst day, hear your venting without judging, and bring you closer to Allah (swt) by their words of wisdom. Many have said that the board hasn’t changed, but unfortunately it has. Myself, as well as many others who have left long ago, have seen it happening. There was a time when you could sign online and read a post that would just floor you. Brothers and Sisters would be corrected with words of encouragement, guidance and a sincere desire to help you. For many converts, an online community like this one is all that they have to look at for answering their questions and building on their iman. A new revert is very weak in their faith and they have many questions. Each individual’s circumstances are so different that for someone to post a fatwa or for someone else to say that what they are doing is haram/halal should not be allowed. Simply because what is good for one might not work for another. And where did the family feeling go? A while back a newcomer would be welcomed with open arms. And now they are hardly welcomed at all. Maybe the community got too big??? Lately, as I lurk around, there seems to be so many harsh words being said to each other. Muslims and non-Muslim alike. What has happened? Where is the Ummah? There are so many of our Brothers and Sisters suffering in the world and some of you are treating each other in ways I wouldn’t treat my pet. I have seen many people come here and sincerely ask for help and because of the responses they get they never return. Subhan’Allah, I wouldn’t want to be the one turning someone away from Islam. Would you?       Just because we are all face-less images on the other side of your computer screen does not mean that we don’t have feelings. Would you treat your own siblings, mother and father like this? I certainly hope not! Please remember that you are all representing *our* Islam. Your words may be the final words that will either guide or turn someone away. I personally have seen two walk away because of the judgmental attitudes and negativity that was shown towards them. I believe, wa allahu a’lam, that the board is still a great dawah tool, if used properly. One should respond to posts with hikmah, love and a sincere desire to guide their “family” to do their Deen proud. :) Take care of yourselves and each other.
01/03/04 at 21:07:34
Serena

Re: Direction of the board...
BrKhalid
01/03/04 at 21:09:01
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]To all those I let down, I am sorry. To those who expected more, I am sorry. If I did not give you your due, forgive me. If I said I would do something and haven't, know that it was not out of neglect or apathy. . When I fell short, it was because I could not reach that far yet did not realise it. If I overshot, then it was because momentarily I forgot my place, astaghfirullah. For I am but the 'abd of Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`ala ). To those that benefited some, alhamdulillah, may he (SubHana Wa Ta`ala ) keep us on the Sirat al-Mustaqeem, and Guided.[/quote] You know I will always remember the day I joined the board. It so happened that exactly the day before my namesake Br Abu Khaled decided to say farewell to the Board. The above is part of his final post. Like many others I stumbled on the board, indeed, my introduction in the Bebzi Stand made mention to this I believe…. [quote] Hmmm....well I seemed to have stumbled on to this site which seems a definite breath of fresh air [if such a thing can occur on line that is] :)[/quote] [As you can see back on those days I didn’t have the bearded smiley but that’s a whole different story…;-)] I remember when I first joined up I didn’t really post a lot because I was too busy reading all the old posts. It was all new to me and I found there was so much I didn’t know. Indeed in the same intro thread I made the comment… [quote] Have to admit I've been far too busy (when I've managed to get on that is) in reading old threads. There really is a great community spirit here……my view is we can all benefit from the experiences of others and if we gain knowledge we should aim to put it into practice for one is worthless without the other. [/quote] So there I was: A Madina Newbie ;-) [Well we all have to start somewhere right? ;-)] I remember when I first joined I used to have a routine where I would read all the new posts when I logged in and then I would reply to maybe 1 or tops 2 threads if I thought I had something worthwhile to say. Of course most times I didn’t have anything to say so my post count didn’t exactly keep the statisticians too busy!! ;-) So that was my lot. I would post here and then maybe there. Sometimes I would get a response and on other occasions not. In fact I clearly remembering my first real post [excluding my intro post] having zilch replies until Jannah took pity on me and wrote something back!! ;-) Anyway it transpired that I had reached 99 posts [a lot on those days!!] over the course of a few months and to be fair I didn’t really feel part of this community which I had admired from afar. No one really responded to me and I only posted haphazardly anyway. I couldn’t but help re read the farewell message from Abu Khaled. Allah knows best his reasons for leaving but when I read the posts he used to write, before his departure, and the responses he used to receive, I sensed I was maybe feeling some of the sadness he was feeling??? The moderators and regulars seemed distant to new people and would seem only talk to those they knew already. For my part I only posted when I thought it was worthwhile and hence there seemed to be no way to be “accepted”. I remember taking some time off from the board. A week if I remember rightly. [Please bear in mind that a week in the mind of an addict feels like a month if not two! ;-)] I wondered what I should do? I loved the being part of the board. I was learning things I had never come across within my own sphere and environment but yet I didn’t feel part of the board and that my contributions were not being acknowledged. I remembering thinking to myself that I had two choices: I could either quit the board and just be a lurker looking in or I could do something about it and change what I thought was wrong with the board. I have to admit the first option was always the most tempting and easiest. I wonder sometimes what would have happened if I had decided to walk away? Allah knows best I guess. But in my heart I knew the correct thing to do was to persevere and remain patient. There was good in staying on the board, not only in learning but being able to share knowledge as well. Hence I made the conscious decision not only to stay but to be more active on the board and to contribute more. Well in the weeks and months after my decision to stay I must have been the most prolific poster on the board. My usual quote of 1 or 2 posts a day became 5..6..7..8...9 posts a day!! I came up with a new posting guideline for myself whereby I would at least write one serious post but most of the others were either light hearted humour efforts or welcoming people on board. I wanted the board to be more friendly and obviously you can’t do this if you only post twice a day!!! So what is the point of all of this I hear you cry? Well in no particular order: I understand when newbies feel this place is very cliquey or clubby. I apologise that, as a moderator, I haven’t done more to make people feel more welcome. Talking about the good old days automatically alienates those who weren’t around in the good old days [myself included] because by inference the new days are not so good? [sheesh is that lousy grammar or what? ;-)] But finally and more seriously I wanted to quote Imam al Haddad from his book “Knowledge and Wisdom” in the Chapter of The Golden Mean [ie moderation] [color=red]”…too much humour and cheerfulness leads to fatuousness and triviality, while too little leads to offensiveness and estrangement.”[/color] Balancing these two extremes is hard for an individual let only a huge community such as our Madina. I myself readily admit of being guilty of veering towards both extremes. Navigating a straight course is hard to achieve but maybe just maybe if such a course can be steered the inevitable need not be so inevitable? [color=Red]Said the Emissary of God (may God bless him and grant him peace), “When Heaven’s people are settled therein, friends will yearn for one another, and the couch of one will travel to that of another so that they meet and discuss what had passed between them in the worldly abode. One of them will say, “O my brother, do you recall such-and-such a day, and such-and-such an assembly, when we prayed to God and He forgave us?” [Bayhaqi – Taken from the Remembrance of Death & The Afterlife by Imam Al Ghazali][/color] We all know life is short and arguing over something which may bring displeasure in the Hereafter is a heedless occupation. Not everyone on the board will agree with everyone else. We all have our opinions but what we *do* have in common is our shared faith in Islam which means: [color=Red]”The Muslim is the one from whose tongue and whose hand Muslims are safe”[Muslim] “Among the best of you are those who have the best attitude (towards others)”[Muslim] “No greater deed will be placed in the balance than a good attitude towards others. A good attitude towards others will bring a person up to the level of fasting and prayer.”[Tirmidhi] “By virtue of his good attitude towards others, a person may reach the level of one who habitually fasts (during the day) and stands in prayer (at night).” [Tirmidhi][/color] May Allah forgive us our sins and grant us a good attitude towards others
01/03/04 at 21:13:06
BrKhalid

Re: Direction of the board...
se7en
01/04/04 at 04:46:07
as salaamu alaykum, I cannot put into words how troubling these posts are, subhan'Allah.. Br Khalid your post made me cry :(  I would really like to ask every single one of you for forgiveness for any words, or silence, that may have hurt your feelings or caused you discomfort or anxiety.  please understand that we are all human beings - and we have our own personal weaknesses, moments of emotion and anger, and strong opinions about things.. and we all need advice, guidance and reminders.   I would like to clarify something that I think has led to a lot of confusion:  Outside of administrative posts -- those that deal with administrative decisions, like closing a thread, warning a member, etc -- *all* other posts by the admins/mods are personal posts.  That is, they are an expression of the *personal* opinion of the poster, and are not necessarily (and not usually) an expression of all of the admins/mods opinion on a matter. It was mentioned that the board is run under a type of 'schizophrenia'.. I think this is a relatively accurate comment, considering that the group of us that make up the admin/mod team often have very different opinions and ideas about things.  We try to make administrative duties in shura, but everything outside of that is individual expression.  Please do not think that if one of the 'team' disagrees with you, it means the whole board is against you.  Everyone has the right to express their feelings and ideas in ways that are proper, in line with the guidelines of Islam and the rules of the board.. and everyone has the right to disagree with them, correct them, think they are crazy, etc if they so choose.  I really hope that, insha'Allah, this small clarification helps rectify some matters.   It's also been mentioned that those that know each other in real life are more responsive and warmer to each other than others.  Once again, I am truly, so sorry for any coldness anyone has experienced on my part.. especially if this leads you to feel that you are not welcome on the board, that your opinion doesn't matter, that you're outside of a 'clique', or anything along those lines. It is just so distressing and honestly, it hurts a great deal, to hear that people feel that they were/are mistreated on the board.  For sure, harsh words have been exchanged, disagreement has occurred, mistakes have been committed, but I always truly felt that there was a mutual attachment and love for one another, rooted in a deeply spiritual connection, that brought us together. If something has been troubling you, please bring it to the table, and let us work together to rectify things, insha'Allah. [color=black] The believers, men and women, are protectors and helpers of one another; they encourage good and shun evil; they observe prayer, practice regular charity, and obey God and His Messenger.  On them will God pour His mercy: for God is exalted in power, the Wise. --- Qur'an, Surah Tauba [/color] wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah, se7en
01/04/04 at 05:16:13
se7en

Re: Direction of the board...
Abdussamed
01/04/04 at 19:12:44
[slm] I was never lurker. I had so much to write but my knowledge is limited..I have learned much here not only about islam. I take everythink seiously here and sometimes affect me in my real life... My first visit was mamaslink... I wish from Allah swt WE all muslims of this board SEE us at Real Jannah better Jannatol Firdaws...  Amiin...  ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)  [wlm]
01/04/04 at 19:21:37
Abdussamed

Re: Direction of the board...
UmmAbdulRahman
01/04/04 at 20:46:44
[slm] Unfortunately, I do not have much time to read through all of the replies that have been posted in response to the original post so, I apologize if I'm being redundant.  Basically, I just wanted to say I think it's really cool, Jannah, the way you are taking on such a responsibility, an amana, of representing the Muslims who are utilizing this board.  I wonder if anyone else sensed this, but I felt the sadness in your "voice" when I read your post and I wanted to give you a big hug.  Don't feel hopeless.  Your efforts to maintain this board as a warm, trusting forum where Muslims from all over the world can meet and become stronger, better people, are not in vain, insha'Allah.   I also wanted to say that I understand so well your points.  I think it's amazing the way someone says something on this board and then it's shot down by someone else before everyone else on the board has had a chance to read it.  How many times in face-to-face life would that happen?  In my experience,  it's rare that anyone in face-to-face life will bash me for any little conflict my words have with their opinions.  Most of the time, people will just stay silent.  I'm not saying that people should just shut up all the time-disagreement can be healthy.  But people, I think, definitely need to learn the etiquettes and manners of disagreeing (it's not about imposing your way on other people) and learn how to practice this in all aspects of their lives.   May Allah help us.

Re: Direction of the board...
paula
01/04/04 at 21:17:06
[slm] [quote] I wonder if anyone else sensed this, but I felt the sadness in your "voice" when I read your post and I wanted to give you a big hug.  Don't feel hopeless.  Your efforts to maintain this board as a warm, trusting forum where Muslims from all over the world can meet and become stronger, better people, are not in vain, insha'Allah.[/quote] I as well very much sense the sadness & frustration … You are holding a lot on your side of the board… all I think all the time is Masha’ Allah… if nothing more what you have accomplished to date is amazing & truly appreciated … Subhan Allah … listen to these voices… there’s far more good & help & trust & love for the sake of Allah(swt) flowing through these messages than reservation, contempt or hostility … I believe as well your efforts are not in vain… Allahu Alam ... & sincerely pray the ship sails into serene waters whereby your heart may once again feel peace… Insha’ Allah A truly heartfelt Jazak Allahu Khairan [wlm]
01/04/04 at 21:18:55
paula

Re: Direction of the board...
gift
01/05/04 at 04:27:12
[slm] I've been away from the board for about three weeks and it's all crashing down around me :'(   Sister Jannah I totally agree with everything you've said, but as someone who joined 2000/2001 I just wanted to tell you what the board means to me. I didn't really start to post on the board until about a year after I joined, a lot of my friends were away studying in Egypt and Syria, and I felt that the board was my link with the Muslim ummah.  So many times when I was upset, afraid or depressed I came to the board, and I never once left feeling the same way - I invariably left the board with a smile on my face :)  Sister Jannah, this board has been a haven to me in sooo many ways and I have learnt so much from all of you.  It has been a wonder and a joy to hear of brothers' and sisters' weddings, children being born, conversions to Islam etc.  Each time I hear such news I feel joy, because you are all part of 'my family'.   So please Sister Jannah, hold on tight, don't let us go  :( . If I have every wounded or offended anyone in anyway, please forgive me. [wlm]

Re: Direction of the board...
jannah
01/05/04 at 04:33:04
[wlm] wow u guys, thanx for the support and input i really appreciate it :) thanx to all who sent me private input as well.. it's been truly insightful i don't even know what to say back yet. i was thinking about se7en's post... hmm i tend not to respond back to topics that have been discussed before either and i think others don't either. it just seems like a lot of effort replicated.. maybe newbies can go back and read some old threads, even if just the titles, to get an idea of the repeating topics - there's alot that recurs.   i also don't usually respond to introductions unless they ask a question or say something i can comment on. although i am of course ecstatic about the fact that new people join and participate, so don't think ur not welcome! i don't respond to posts unless i really have something to say and there's usually a lot of reasons why i say nothing...including no knowledge, no inclination to argue with someone when i disagree, no time, etc etc.   i don't think it's anyones job to respond here. i think the board is a voluntary thing so no one has the right to blame others if they don't. if one notices the anonymous posts where people don't even know the poster, sometimes there will be alot of responses and discussion and help and sometimes there's none, so it's not a question of 'who knows who'. now that i am thinking about this more, i think the people dissatisfied with the board  have a different idea of what it is/should be (me included). it's not a club.. so those people expecting great welcomes and leading by hand are dissappointed. it's not an organization so those pushing people to be politically or otherwise active on the board are dissappointed. it's not islam-qa... so those people looking for fatwas are dissappointed. it's not the khalifah so those people wanting to enforce their view of islam are frustrated...and so on maybe we should re-iterate what's on the constutition [code]ARTICLE I: Purpose &Vision    Madinatul Muslimeen has been founded and built to be a fun, informative place so Muslims can get to know each other and support each other in becoming better Muslims.[/code] sigh that's all I wanted... i don't know why it has become so difficult
01/05/04 at 11:23:47
jannah

Lament of the Wayfarer
Anonymous
01/04/04 at 17:04:37
My dearest, most beloved Brothers & Sisters, Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu wa maghfiratuhu. I am blinking back my tears. BrKhalid (Jan 3rd, 2004, 9:09pm), what have you made me do? It has been maybe a week less than two years since I posted to this Board. Only last week I found that last contribution: http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=madrasa&action=display&num=6805 The Board is not accepting new registrants right now so I am afraid I cannot rejoin. Sister Jannah being exclusivist again, some things eh… I always suspected she had something against me. I have been revisiting here for the last two to three weeks. I don’t recognise it. You have to click on a map to get to a thread. What is that all about? Me and maps don’t go together. ;) My precocious Sister Shazia, forgive this wretch, he never got round to congratulating you on that which he should have congratulated you on. Brother Abu_Hamza, mubarak to you both. It was Sister Saleema who notified me, and me who did not fulfil my duty, wal iyadhubillah. You both deserved better than that from me, I am sorry. No wonder no invite. I understand. Sister Jannah (Dec 29th, 2003, 6:19am): “this has been something I've been fighting for the last two years.” Happy New Year huh. *ducks* Whoah! Did someone throw bid’ah at me? Lol… So, Sister Jannah, I have not been here for almost two years. Should I be concerned in case the Board doesn’t fit me anymore, I’ve kinda filled out a bit you know. But I think it suits me (pun intended). My precious Sister Serena, say nothing, I know. I will explain. It is not as you imagine. Don’t not look at me in that tone of voice please. Sister Amatullah (Jan 3rd, 2004, 8:45am), it was the other one not I. J Sister Nazia (Jan 2nd, 2004, 6:48), he is still around. I know him quite well actually. Sister Se7en (Jan 1st, 2004, 12:34pm): “I miss the days when Br. Khalid, Abu Khaled, Abdul Basir, Eleajor, Saleema, Abu_Hamza, Barr, Kathy, MF, Bhaloo, Mystic and countless others would post to a hot thread with ideas so intriguing, so thought provoking, so debate-able, that you found 15-20 others drawn to the discussion.. and it turned into one in which many great minds contributed their thoughts and you just learned so much.” I thought you would at least be 9ine by now? Anyway, what about that legendary brother Funkmaster Flex, wasn’t he around back then? (Don’t cry, BrKhalid didn’t mean it, though I know how you feel.) Recently I read the thread where Sister Azizah (Caraj?) had some trepidation about embracing Islam. http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/madina/YaBB.pl?board=lighthouse;action=display;num=1066838263 I wanted to respond for I had some soft thoughts on the matter. I wrote to Sister Kathy, but have yet to hear from her. So I abstained. But now, with this (thread), abstention is no longer possible. BrKhalid, why? Why did you do that? It has been so long since I came here that I feel like a guest in my own hotel (lol…). I am nervous of what to say lest it not be understood. Ya’ani, is this Board not a mirror of the page we find ourselves in history right now? Sister Jannah, this is not a Board, it is a life, a legacy. Do not allow the distractions of a few marr your experience of the many. The laments you have made exist wherever one turns: Muslim dilettantes, injudicious retorts, soapboxing, things that are said ipse dixit and ex cathedra, closed-mindedness and his brother, narrow-mindedness. Is it not the norm for too-litle knowledge to get mistaken for just-enough? Do we not just love to debate knowledge more than actually seek it? After I read your post BrKhalid (Jan 3rd, 2004, 9:09pm) I went to look for that post of mine you quoted from. It was entitled Farewell, and I posted it on 8th December 2000. The post I wrote called ill-Logic (linked above) was an occasion when I revisited the Board after that time. I have not contributed since. In truth I have not even visited very often, so many of the names are new to me. “Allah knows best his reasons for leaving but when I read the posts he used to write, before his departure, and the responses he used to receive, I sensed I was maybe feeling some of the sadness he was feeling” I had no reason for leaving other than the time I found myself in. I did not leave because I wanted to but because circumstance chose not to be a friend to me then. It is hard for me to rewind and get a sense of what I felt when I wrote Farewell. Time erases many memories, such is one of the characteristics of life. A characteristic that this Board helps preserve, and one reason for why it should endure. People come and go. On paper it is different when one writes by hand. Their words leave an imprint and some write harder than others, such that even if you try to erase their words, the indelibility of them is left like a faint echo. You can run your hand along that same paper and feel what once you could see, their words. Sometimes this causes a smile, other times a tear. But on a Message Board such words can be deleted, edited, amended, and modified. And when the words written here are more worthy of being forgotten than remembered then we as a community must wake up and answer that distress signal. If we care enough. Which I think we do. Witness the return after a prolonged absence, because a few people remembered me, by name, and said some things that touched me. The Board is not the only thing that has changed. I am now a stranger, and maybe those who once knew my words will no longer recognize me. Ironically I noticed that even this thread itself has not been free from fulminations. One Brother mentioned one thing, and someone else assumed that that which he did not say must itself be a judgemental comment. Did he not deserve the husn al-thann [benefit of the doubt]? If Sister Se7en – purely as a hypothetical – says she likes pepsi (a real lot), it doesn’t mean she doesn’t like water. It just means she likes pepsi (a real lot). Don’t be so quick to read beyond what someone is saying. This trait has caused this Ummah endless problems throughout our history, and still we don’t learn. I cannot talk, I am as guilty of the kinds of things being objected about as anyone. So how can one who knows not Allah ta’ala direct others to Him, jalla jalalu? It reeks of double-standards no? Oftentimes it is ourselves that we are calling others to, if we were but to realize it, not Allah, azza wa jal. For when we project our understandings, when we opine based on how little we know, not how much, we become dangerous to the readers of our words. What is the point of straight talking when the point being made is crooked? This Board attracts not only Muslims. Yet sometimes the window they must be peeping through at us makes us seem as if we obfuscate this Noble Deen. It is not even ours to mishandle, yet we treat it as if we own it. It is an amanah and we are its ambassadors. Yet some of us seem to conflate the analogy with reality and post as if our words have diplomatic immunity. Once, when I was observing an online discussion on a controversial subject that was spiraling downwards into argumentation, a Brother – to whom I will, for this simple nasiha, remain forever indebted – entered the fray and said, “Should you find yourself unable to present your argument and retain your adab too, drop the argument and preserve your adab - surely that is more beneficial to you.” Take nothing else from this post, but I beseech you all, if you care even if only a little for the welfare of this place, then heed these words of the Brother. This is my nasiha to you all. Ask the others who know me, I stumbled many a time here, crossed lines, transgressed, exceeded limits, but they all helped me back up, with gentility, civility and muhabba [love]. Value that if you value little else about this place. You don’t stay in someone’s house and disrespect their place do you? If I knew little else, the above maxim would save me from the many many fitan that occur whenever people meet, conversations ensue, questions are asked, opinions follow and manners are lost. Consider the profound wisdom in the practice of Imam ash-Shafi’i, radhi’Allahu ‘anh. About which Imam an-Nawawi, radhi’Allahu ‘anh is related to have written: “It has been narrated to us about Imam Shafi'i that when anyone asked him a question, he would not answer right away. When they asked him why he was not answering, he would reply: “Not until I know which is better, to keep silent or to answer.”” [Adab Al-Fatwa Wal Mufti Wal Mustafti [The Etiquette's and Qualifications of Issuing Islamic Judgement, of a Mufti, and of the one seeking his opinion] (translated by Shaykh Muhammad Bashir) From the same book: “It has been narrated by ’Ata Ibn as-Sai’b (the Tabi’i) that: “I have seen many of the people (of the first and second generations) and if anyone was to ask them a question they would tremble when answering out of fear of Allah (in case the answer was incorrect.”” This Board is named after a city. That city is an honoured place. It was/is home to one who was an Honour for us to have some ta’alluq [connection] with, alayhi afdalus salatu wassalam. To shame such a city with behaviour as belligerent as some of what is being manifested whilst he is in our midst, alayh salatu wassalam, is pause for concern. We embarrass ourselves to eyes we forget may be watching. To whom we are the example. For whom we may be turned to. A Shaykh enters a classroom and gives salams. No one replies. He again gives salams, but no one replies. He gets upset and starts lamenting about the virtues of replying to salams, and how it is no wonder they’re all useless if they can’t even fulfil this most basic of things. Then one of his students enters, and gives salams. No one replies. So he repeats his salams, but again no one replies. He asks, “What have I done that you aren’t replying to my salams?” The hikmah [wisdom] is in knowing our own reality rather than addressing the reality of others. One person will inveigh against everyone else, the other will consider his known state first, lest that be the true source of the problem. One of our teachers once explained how iman is like a flower. The same way a flower has a fragrance that radiates, so too does iman have a light that radiates. And just as the flower is unable to prevent that fragrance from radiating, so too will a person of Allah ta’ala be unable to prevent his/her iman from radiating. It cannot but, for that is it’s essence and you cannot detach an essence, bi’idhnillah. And in the same way that the fragrance of the flower will inevitably draw others towards it, the light of the iman that comes from the Ahl al-Allah tabarak wa ta’ala will draw in those whose are drawn to that which should be drawn to. So, if (y)our words have not an effect, then don’t get irritated at the other. Maybe you do not have that which should effect them if you truly are one who is of the Ahl al-Allah. It is not always about them, it is more often about you. And truly Allah ta’ala veils one from the problems of the self by preoccupying with the shortcomings of t’other. Words are given weight by the states that accompany them. Else they are mere driftwood amidst the seemingly endless oceans of words that surround us thesedays. It is reportedly attributed to Sayyidina Ibn Abbas, radhi’Allahu ‘anh - wallahu a’lam – that he is related to have said that the one who speaks out of place has indulged in excess. This is from one whom Allah ta’ala chose to be of that pre-eminent first generation who accompanied our Beloved Prophet, sallahu alayhi wassalam, so let not such words be treated lightly. He, radhi’Allahu ‘anh reportedly continued, “Engage yourself not in speach either with the learned or the fool. For the former is likely to defeat you, and the latter is likely to abuse you. [(aw qama qal wallahu a’lam) al Maqdisi, al Adab, Vol I, p 43] Shaykh Abdullah Adhami mentions in a four part article on Shar'iah he authored- in the section on Adab of Knowledge: The “best awareness [ma'rifa] is for a man to have self-awareness. And the best knowledge ['ilm] is for a man to stop at the limit of his knowledge.”” He – hafiDHahullah – further wrote that “the Sahaba recommended: "If you are asked about a matter, worry about saving yourself first before you worry about relieving the questioner of his question.”” Know that if you feel the desire to rush and answer then it is not a virtue. And hastiness in answering questions – particularly on matters related to ‘aqida or fiqh – is the same of one who is careless as well as heedless. One of the mashayikh mentioned that one of the signs of the last day is, “E'tabu kulli bira'in bira'ihi” [The amazement of every opinionated person with his opinion]. I have missed you all – even if I sneaked back every now and again unbeknownst to you - and you know who you are, so don’t embarrass me by getting me to name names. My fond-hearted salams to each and every one of you. The inestimable poetry of Imam ash-Shafi’i, radhi’Allahu ‘anh, leaves us with the following treasure: kullama addabaniyad daharu aranee naqSa `aqlee falammazdadtu `ilman (falamma izdadtu `ilman) zaadanee `ilman bi jahlee! --- the passage of time has civilized me a lot, it has showed me, the flaws of my intellect; as my knowledge increased, the knowledge of my ignorance has increased. “Say: You do not flatter me by your claim to Islam- rather it is Allah's favour upon you that He has guided you to believe, provided you are truthful.” [49:17] Even if you don’t see me again, remember this wretch in your blessed du’as, for he stands in need of the prayers of the saliheen. Affectionately, Abu Khaled

Re: Lament of the Wayfarer
jannah
01/04/04 at 17:09:03
wlm, ahlan wa sahlan ya abu khaled for u i would turn it back on again :) it's off because i'm trying to clean out the inactive accounts and downloading the data into some spreadsheets and stuff so when i'm done with that we'll see. but u may want to check your old login it might be there. btw use jannah.org/board instead of jannah.org/madina to avoid the map jazakallah khair for your encouragement. i pray all is well with u and ur family. 2 years... see it all started when u left bro :p
01/04/04 at 17:22:40
jannah

Re: Lament of the Wayfarer
Kathy
01/04/04 at 22:14:43
[slm] [quote]"I wanted to respond for I had some soft thoughts on the matter. I wrote to Sister Kathy,  but have yet to hear from her. So I abstained. But now, with this (thread), abstention is no longer possible."[/quote] My Brother, you have known me for years... you should know I would never leave a question unanswered, an e-mail of yours~ unopened. In fact, it is I that have felt cheated by the withdrawl of your presence....
01/04/04 at 22:17:23
Kathy

Re: Direction of the board...
Kashif
01/05/04 at 08:06:48
assalaamu alaikum Dear all, I hope in Allah that you're well. As one of the oldies, i too look back with fond memories to the days when the board was new. But i can't pick one thing, or even a number of things and say that it was this or that that made the board cool. Perhaps it was that we were not only friends on the board but also off the board. And perhaps for the newer members who have developed off-board friendships with others here like we did, they experience now the same benefits and joys that we did from befriending others and thus, the board is great for them. Perhaps what the board is going through is just the natural progression that comes as a result of new faces. I don't know if the correct approach is to add more rules and regulations to rectify the problems people note, afterall, what we had before sufficed. Perhaps just more enforcement and more cool heads are needed. I can't think of what else to say except that below is what i intended my post to start off with and now its floating around and i can't link it up with what i wrote earlier. (Just my luck to have to post after the Funkmaster, my post is gonna read even worse, haha). I have to admit that when i read the board now i most look forward to reading the comments of people who were here in the early days: bhaloo, jannah, Kathy, amatullah, Abu Khaled, Abu Hamza, Barr... But at the same time there are other newer members whose input is really beneficial like Nur al-Layl and others. Kashif Wa Salaam PS I'm really happy to see all those old faces logging in again.
NS

Re: Direction of the board...
ouch
01/05/04 at 09:39:39
[slm] I think I could’ve saved myself a lot of unnecessary embarrassment and heartache if I had bothered to read the Madina constitution carefully before I took the plunge from lurker to member. It clearly states what sis jannah reiterated in her post earlier about the purpose of these boards. As the person who created this wonderful place she has every right to hv a vision for this Madina and she has the right to hv this vision respected by others. I plead guilty to being one of the ppl who misunderstood what these boards were meant for—not for any sinister, “ulterior motives” or any pre-determined “agenda”. Simply because there are so few quality sites like these for Muslims to interact on the net, that its v. tempting to try and cram everything into one site –da’wah, activism, information, naseeha… whatever. Given the atmosphere on the board right now, where some ppl get away with calling the hijab (a fard from Allaah) a “stupid piece of cloth” and others, who may be acting out of pure intention but may not hv come up with a way of expression that meets sis jannah’s approval are come down heavily upon,  I honestly can’t see myself fitting in here. I just want to apologize if I added to the bad vibes/negativity for the short while I was here, inshaAllah I will be deleting all the threads and posts which I started and which may hv stood at odds with the purpose of the board. Wishing everyone well, inshaAllah. :-)
01/05/04 at 09:41:29
ouch

Re: Direction of the board...
timbuktu
01/05/04 at 09:56:30
[slm] what  is happening here please? sis ouch & strait-talkin-sis, & others who are leaving don't be so touchy, please. i agree with your posts. no one has deleted your post, has any one? no one has talked down to you. and no one has been rude to you, has any one? we need you here. do we in real life stop interaction with ppl we do not agree with. please do not leave.
01/05/04 at 10:07:28
timbuktu

Re: Direction of the board...
jannah
01/05/04 at 11:46:51
[wlm] thanx timbuktu i agree people shouldn't leave if they have disagreements. however if someone doesn't believe in the constitution or the vision for the board then that is a much bigger issue. as for someone saying they believe 'hijab is just a cloth' first i think ur taking it out of context because someone was trying to make a point about something -- which was maybe that hijab is much MORE than just a cloth.  secondly even if she did mean that, there are a lot of people who believe that literally hijab doesn't mean anything in the world hence what we see today in france. there are also a lot of sisters who are struggling with the hijab because of a number of issues including not really understand the meaning and fardness of hijab. should we then ban them because they are "wrong". should we attack them? shoot them down? should we call them names like 'kafir' and tell them they are following the ways of kafirs and kick them off the board because they are not up to our level of understanding and practice? what is the way we should make dawah? that is the real question under consideration here. on a certain board they'd be banned outright, on another board i doubt anyone would care. but i hope here we can stop being judgemental and harsh and in 'that's haram!' mode and try to understand what the sister is trying to say just like if our own sister was on here and didn't wear/understand hijab. you may disagree and i may disagree but it's all about how we interact with each other.
01/05/04 at 11:51:30
jannah

Re: Direction of the board...
humble_muslim
01/05/04 at 15:53:48
AA First of all, a sincere apology to anyone who has been offended by anything I have posted over the years.  Anyone feel free me to IM me to give me nasiha if you feel I need correcting over anything I ever post. IMHO, this is still the ONLY Islamic board I'd ever go to.  Yes, there are fights, but it does not get to the level of most other boards. I really think this place STILL rocks.  I can't get enough of it.  And the main reason I come here is still to get away from all the crazy thing happening in this world. What can be done about the current situation?  A few common sense points for everyone to follow : 1. First and foremost, do NOT get emotional when you post.  Make sure you're in your senses when you hit the button. 2. Don't bring up contreversial topics.  We all know by now that this is NOT the place for that. 3. Don't say anything Islamic without knowledge.  Ask questions by all means, but don't give fatwas. 4. If you really want to avoid negativity, don't go to the Ummah Community Center. May Allah forgive me if I fail to do as I say.
NS
01/05/04 at 15:57:36
humble_muslim

Re: Direction of the board...
Caraj
01/05/04 at 17:03:41
[quote author=The humble muslim link=board=bebzi;num=1072696759;start=60#63 date=01/05/04 at 15:53:48]AA First of all, a sincere apology to anyone who has been offended by anything I have posted over the years.  Anyone feel free me to IM me to give me nasiha if you feel I need correcting over anything I ever post. IMHO, this is still the ONLY Islamic board I'd ever go to.  Yes, there are fights, but it does not get to the level of most other boards. I really think this place STILL rocks.  I can't get enough of it.  And the main reason I come here is still to get away from all the crazy thing happening in this world. What can be done about the current situation?  A few common sense points for everyone to follow : 1. First and foremost, do NOT get emotional when you post.  Make sure you're in your senses when you hit the button. 2. Don't bring up contreversial topics.  We all know by now that this is NOT the place for that. 3. Don't say anything Islamic without knowledge.  Ask questions by all means, but don't give fatwas. 4. If you really want to avoid negativity, don't go to the Ummah Community Center. May Allah forgive me if I fail to do as I say.[/quote] Ameen, I second that opinion. And you all know me by now   ::)   ;D I have something more to add. 1) I have been to a few other Islamic boards and in my opinion the quality of jannah.org far surpasses them all. (Bro Hanif your's is a close in the running so please don't get offended as I have been here 2 years and visited yours only maybe 6 times, please don't be offended or I'll   :'(  ) The sense of compassion, family, kindness and wisdon flows on this board and when I visit others to check them out I am right back here. 2) Why don't we all admit we are human and we all make mistakes be it offending or being offended, ask forgiveness, give forgiveness and move on. 3) Please keep in mind that Jannah, bhaloo and the other mods give of their time to make this all possible, one thing I have notice in a change on this board over the last 6 months is the mods seem to be getting less respect and appreciation. I don't mean to offend anyone, I am just speaking from the heart and from my own observation, I see a lack of respect for our mods. Can you even fathom what kind of time, hours, days and weeks these wonderful people put in on this project (the board)??? Do any of you have that kind of time? Think of all the cool and fun things they could be doing instead of being here putting up with all the things we dish out to them. 4) Anyone I have offended over the last 2 years please forgive me, I never intentionally set out to offend anyone, however I do realize I am an ornery. opinionated old country gal   :D I always try to speak from the heart. But I know at times I fall short and I hope you all will forgive me for such. I really care and when someone speaks of the board as a 'sinking ship' can we try to consider the ship to be our hearts and intentions and do a check on it so the ship sails strong. Please, lets all forgive and seek forgiveness, we have aired this all out NOW LET'S GET ON WITH BEING HAPPY and get on with learning and helping one another. and please respect and appreciate our mods.  Pretty pleaseeee   :-* I just can't get over how some people try to challenge, correct and butt heads with them   :o I did not see this behavior to this extent last year, but see if heavily in the last 6 months or so. If you disagree and can back up your correction then message them privately, why dish them in public??? In conclusin please remember an opinion is neither wrong or right, it is how a person persieves an issue or event or situation. By the way what is a fatwa??? ok now that we aired out all our difference   can we get on with being nice, lets learn, lets grow, lets help and lets love and serve our Almighty God  ;)
01/05/04 at 17:11:29
Caraj

Re: Direction of the board...
WhiteSomali
01/06/04 at 00:07:01
[slm] every1 I must be the only person on the board who didn't post in this thread yet. Azizah, a fatwa is a ruling given on Islamic law by a Sheikh or a Mufti. For example, if someone asked a scholar whether or not it was permisseable for, say, a man to wear his hair in plaits, the scholar would issue a fatwa on that subject. Different scholars can issue different fatwas for the same issue, and it's still possible that either way is permisseable under Shariah law, as long as the Muftis looked at all the evidence and can sufficiliently support their claim. When this happens, a person should look at the evidence presented and decide which scholars opinion they feel is most correct to follow, although both ways are perfectly permisseable. Please correct me if any of that is incorrect, somebody :) BTW - [QUOTE] 1. First and foremost, do NOT get emotional when you post.  Make sure you're in your senses when you hit the button. 2. Don't bring up contreversial topics.  We all know by now that this is NOT the place for that. 3. Don't say anything Islamic without knowledge.  Ask questions by all means, but don't give fatwas. 4. If you really want to avoid negativity, don't go to the Ummah Community Center. [/QUOTE] You took the words right outta my mouth, especially with #1 and #3. I'm hereby declaring these the unwritten (well, not unwritten in this case...) code of Madinah ;D [slm]
01/06/04 at 00:08:55
WhiteSomali

Re: Direction of the board...
se7en
01/06/04 at 02:14:01
as salaamu alaykum, Abu Khaled -- :)  stay under the shade of this tree for a while longer. Nazia, Kashif -- it is so nice to hear from you  :)

Re: Direction of the board...
siddiqui
01/06/04 at 23:53:09
[slm] [quote] “Should you find yourself unable to   present your argument and retain your adab too, drop the argument and preserve your adab -  surely that is more beneficial to you.” [/quote] Jazakallah khair for sharing it with me bro [wlm]

Re: Direction of the board...
panjul
01/07/04 at 02:41:08
[slm] --saleema, abu khaled, etc.  Are they still around? New screen names?  Also, I wanted to let you know that at this VERY moment, I'm cooking rice in the rice cooker you guys gave me for my wedding!  so sweet. Yes I'm around and doing well. (It's me Saleema) Wow, i am sure glad to hear from abu khaled and Kashif. :) And Nazia of course! :)  How was the rice? I don't have anything useful to add...except i miss the old days too... Anyway, maybe i will make a comeback. who knows? Take care. I have good news by the way. I have an internship with a fashion magazine! Go figure...(no, not in california...that didnt work out for me. Too stressful, being away from the family and stuff) I thought that everyone would be wearing fashionalbe clothes at the office, but they were all dressed like slobs, in the fashion world that is. I will be helping people edit their commas; and periods. Take care everyone. Salams P.S. Kashif, Abu Khaled--it's very nice to hear from you guys again. :)

Re: Direction of the board...
bhaloo
01/07/04 at 08:56:12
[slm] Saleema, Abu Khaled, Kashif, Br. Khalid, Nazia, woah!   :o  :o  :o Its good to hear from all of you, alhumdullilah.  I think that's one of the few times that Saleema spelled Abu Khaled's name correctly.   :P   Perhaps you all should give us an update of how you are doing, including mystery man Abu Khaled (the person probably asked the most questions about his life, yet he gave the least).  I'm also still waiting on the answer to those riddles/jokes you posted here about 4 years ago, don't you think I've waited long enough? :)

Re: Direction of the board...
BrKhalid
01/08/04 at 09:23:47
Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]“Should you find yourself unable to present your argument and retain your adab too, drop the argument and preserve your adab - surely that is more beneficial to you.”[/quote] For a while now I’ve been thinking of some help for new users when they join the board: “Madina Netiquette” - Help for newbies and long time lurkers when they finally decide to join. The above would definitely have to be top of my list. Others which are worth mentioning include: -      Posting an introduction in the Bebzi Stand -      If members are not replying to your posts maybe change track and join in on current discussions rather than starting one yourself so people can get to know you. -      Most members on this board will not answer something on which they have no knowledge hence zero replies to a thread does not mean there is no interest in the topic. -      Most members on this board do not have time to read everything and respond to everything so one should not expect instant replies to queries and questions. -      Reading old threads and checking the Ark to see if a topic has been raised before. [This may be the reason there are no responses to a question] -      Saving compliments and thank you’s to IM to ease bandwith I’m sure there are others we could come up with. ;-) So if you have any ideas either post them here or send them to the Admins – bhaloo & jannah [Sorry guys I would have volunteered but I don’t check my IM’s enough ;)] and maybe we can get something up and running. [quote]BrKhalid, why? Why did you do that?[/quote] Hmmm……so we could see the Funkmaster flex his muscles one more time perchance? ;) In truth I wrote from the heart and therein maybe lies the answer to some of the problems we have on the board? [quote] The hikmah [wisdom] is in knowing our own reality rather than addressing the reality of others. One person will inveigh against everyone else, the other will consider his known state first, lest that be the true source of the problem [/quote]

Re: Direction of the board...
sabri
01/08/04 at 11:58:50
[slm]   I too would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended. If anyone I offended/upset/hurt is reading this, please forgive me. [wlm] Sabri
01/08/04 at 11:59:36
sabri

Re: Direction of the board...
Arabian_Princess
01/08/04 at 13:09:03
[slm] everyone I've so far refrained from posting cos Im a newbie (as u can see) and i felt i wasn't 'qualified' enuff to engage in an argument  ;) BUT- I just want 2 say that this has got to be the best forum on the World Wide Web. Period. And Br. Khalid I think your idea is brilliant....just what us newbies need! :) (sorry don't have any suggestions yet!)

Re: Direction of the board...
jannah
01/13/04 at 10:15:18
salam, here are some good points some ppl brought up... Some comparisons between the old message board and the new message board: Old board Started: 8/00 Duration: 1.5 yrs Total threads: 11,511 Total posts: 62,088 Post/thread: 5.44 New board Started: 2/02 Duration: 2 yrs Total threads: 53,750 Total posts: 110,645 Posts/therad: 2.05 I think it's obvious that we're having to deal with a lot more posts and discussion topics on the new board than we did on the old board.  Perhaps the board has become too big for our liking.  Perhaps there are too many forums.   I'm not suggesting anything here.  Just throwing this out there as some food for thought, as we're trying to figure out how to make things better here. There are some things I noticed about those statistics.  Look at the number of threads and the number of posts in the 1st board.  For each thread there is about 6 posts to it.  On the new board there is about 2 posts to it.  In other words people are starting less meaningful topics now that don't have much discussion.  Though the last 2 weeks have been interesting, interesting good on the board. There are too many forums, some of them should be axed.   -- so I guess these are some things we can think about too..

Re: Direction of the board...
SisterHania
01/13/04 at 12:47:56
[quote]There are too many forums, some of them should be axed.   [/quote] Please don't axe the Bebzi stand, I love reading it when my head is too heavy with facts and figures amassed from the day :) It's jokes and fun banter bring me light relief and help me through the day. I think if anything HAS to be axed I am willing to sacrifice the Ikhwan Health Club <evil laughter>  ;D  Beards, NBA and muscle men its a hard choice, but I'm willing to give it up, for the love of my Jannah.org
01/13/04 at 17:11:42
jannah

Re: Direction of the board...
Tesseract
01/13/04 at 13:19:22
[slm]              [quote]I think if anything HAS to be axed I am willing to sacrifice the Ikhwan Health Club <evil laughter>    Beards, NBA and muscle men its a hard choice, but I'm willing to give it up, for the love of my Jannah.com [/quote]           Seems like someone has been visiting the Ikhwan Health Club too much  :P See, that itself explains how attractive a place it is, u just can't resist it.  :P I think, that's the only forum with the least no. but quality posts per thread  8)              [quote]There are too many forums, some of them should be axed.  [/quote]            I think Akhwat cafe alone equals "too many forums" [s]with too many useless discussions[/s], feel free to axe it down  :P If u need any help jannah, just let us brothers know InshaAllah. Let us work together for a good cause, atleast once.......... Wassalam.

Re: Direction of the board...
Caraj
01/13/04 at 16:17:49
This is a simple observation not a negative statement. Sometimes, there is a joke or a poem or a news clip and no one responds, but the amount of people who read it / looked at it are many. These have been quite a few but just cause we don't post a reply doesn't mean we didn't enjoy reading it or didn't get anything out of it. Just an observation. I've seen people ask advice and it not get replied to, although that is seldom. I'd be more than willing to give up my long winded experiences  ;) for my love of jannah.org   Question if I may? Is this taking up to much space? Or whatever it is called in the pc world? Is there to much for the mods to keep up with? As I know there are so many members now and also a mod in charge of a board needs to read stuff to make sure people are complying with the rules? Is this to heavy on the server? What exactly is the problem? Outside of the statistics?
01/13/04 at 17:12:49
jannah

Re: Direction of the board...
Nomi
01/14/04 at 00:39:48
[slm] [quote author=Bulwark of Islam link=board=bebzi;num=1072696759;start=70#75 date=01/13/04 at 13:19:22]            I think Akhwat cafe alone equals "too many forums" [s]with too many useless discussions[/s], feel free to axe it down  :P If u need any help jannah, just let us brothers know InshaAllah. Let us work together for a good cause, atleast once.......... [/quote] Stand down officer! I'm beginning to like Akhwat Cafe after that "Amazing Muslimas" thread. I'm with the sisters........ but with my gaze lowered all the way :) [slm] ~me
01/14/04 at 00:41:31
Nomi

Re: Direction of the board...
Halima
01/14/04 at 07:14:17
[quote]There are too many forums, some of them should be axed.[/quote] Hmmmm.... difficult decision - not only for the mods - but also for the citizens.  I look at all the forums with fondness.  I do not post in some and rarely visit others - but by virtue of them being there, they have become standard jannah.org/board features with lots of symbolisms.  But at the same time, the Albany Mafia was axed! How about combining some the forums because in my observation, they seem to serve the same purpose, e.g.: Bebzi Stand Kind of like the water cooler area at work, introductions by new Madina residents, discussion about life, dawah, humor... etc. Moderator: bhaloo Akhwat Cafe For discussion among sisters. Moderator: Kathy Ikhwan Health Club For all things brothers. Moderator: BrKhalid If you look closely, they all cover DISCUSSIONS which is the main underlying factor for each despite the fact that we call them by different names.  Also, discussions among sisters and all things (discussions) brothers are NOT exclusively for either gender.  Both genders visit both and post in them.  So, there is nothing so special or off limits as such.  I visit the Ikhawan Health Club occassionaly NOT to admire MUSCLES (I am too old for that anyway) but to get glimpse of how healthy the brothers (young and old) are.  My findings.....  no comment! As for discussions among sisters, we have brothers contributing too. So, why not combine these two under the banner of the BEBZI STAND?  Among the many things that the bebzi stands covers is "discussions about life".  So both the female and the male citizens of the Madina can totally engage in all sorts of discussions here. I remember a book I read in school.  The thing that struck me most was something about change. ".....changes are scary but change is not necessarily for the worse.....".  I wish I could remember the title or the author.  My brain is too old to remember that far back! Hey, just my opinions and observations.  Nothing more, nothing less. Whatever decision jannah and the other mods make, we will 'swim' with the currents and not against. Most of the time, I read and absorb what other members post.  I LOVE reading.  It is my passion. Wasalaam. Halima

Re: Direction of the board...
SisterHania
01/14/04 at 10:58:51
[quote author=Halima link=board=bebzi;num=1072696759;start=70#78 date=01/14/04 at 07:14:17] I visit the Ikhawan Health Club occassionaly NOT to admire MUSCLES (I am too old for that anyway) but to get glimpse of how healthy the brothers (young and old) are.  My findings.....  no comment! [/quote] :D :-/ Akhwat cafe members ---->[img]http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/muscle.gif[/img] Ikhwan Health club members ----> [img]http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/nerd.gif[/img] How about increasing the number of moderators for each forum. As the number of members and posts increase the work can be distributed so heavy responsibility does not rely on one poor soul.

Re: Direction of the board...
faisalsb
01/15/04 at 03:18:43
[slm] [quote] I think Akhwat cafe alone equals "too many forums" with too many useless discussions, feel free to axe it down   If u need any help jannah, just let us brothers know InshaAllah. Let us work together for a good cause, atleast once.......... [/quote] :) Well I don't agree with the brother bulwark since I think Akhwat Cafe is very essential for the board. Because WHATEVER is usually said over there is CONTAINED in that forum only. So if someone is not interested in to have headache for rest of his/her day then they can simply ignor going to it. But if we abolish it then THAT kind of posts are going to be spread all over the board. So I think it would bring less good and more harm to the board.
01/15/04 at 03:22:32
faisalsb

Re: Direction of the board...
Abu_Hamza
01/16/04 at 00:21:49
[slm] And how exactly do you sisters know so well about what kind of topics are discussed in the Ikhwan Health Club?!  Seems like you visit that forum very frequently ... I wonder why   ??? And you brothers??   ;)

Re: Direction of the board...
panjul
01/16/04 at 01:28:04
[slm] I think the following should be eliminated. The British Souq. The cyber subculture. Muslimeen HQ. And the lighthouse. To serve the needs of non-muslims and newly practicing, they could use the naseeha corner. or vise versa. And of course the akhwat.
01/16/04 at 01:28:43
panjul

Re: Direction of the board...
jannah
01/16/04 at 17:32:32
wlm, thanx for the input... inshaAllah we are discussing it... we don't want to do anything drastic so we'll see.. :) also does anyone have any more madina netiquette suggestions?

Re: Direction of the board...
superFOB
01/17/04 at 01:59:41
[slm] These might sound harsh but... 1. Do away with the e-fatwas. Imho, they target a very limited audience and are, thus, not terribly useful. 2. Admins should take a crash course in how to moderate. Please don't take a hardline even though your heart is in it. Being opinionated is not the job for the moderator. 3. Established scholars must not be allowed to post. I have seen at least one instance of this and felt scared to heck. Was that a takeover attempt? - superFOB

Re: Direction of the board...
timbuktu
01/17/04 at 06:19:19
[slm][quote author=superFOB link=board=bebzi;num=1072696759;start=80#84 date=01/17/04 at 01:59:41] 3. Established scholars must not be allowed to post. I have seen at least one instance of this and felt scared to heck. Was that a takeover attempt? - superFOB[/quote] wow! really. i got to see that. can you give us a link, please.
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