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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| The "perfect Islamic" society |
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| Saam |
| 12/31/03 at 19:54:56 |
| [slm] I know this topic may cause controversy, which is not my intention, but I am just curious about the differing opinions on this matter (hopefully this is not another banned topic :( ). If it is banned, I would ask people to please instant message me their replies. As I am new to Islam, I am still in the process of trying to better understand many issues in Islam. I have been giving much thought as to what "laws" are or are not to be enforced to the whole of society. Obviously the Qur'an preaches against murder, and obviously it should a law for all, muslims and non-muslims, not to murder. Stealing and other obvious issues, everyone will agree should be law. However, on the opposite end of the spectrum, there are some things which Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) commands us to do in the Qur'an, like praying 5 times a day, which (at least I feel) is a matter that can be forced on no one. So apart from these 2 extremes there are many many commands from God to Muslims. For example, we are all called to practice modesty (lowering our gaze, and covering the appropriate parts of our body). This, however, is forced in some countries... I know that women, muslim and non-muslim, are all forced to cover their heads in countries like Iran. In fact it is the forcing of such laws that caused my Iranian family to be pushed away from Islam before I was even born, and caused me to be raised a Christian. Now I am not arguing that this issue should or should not be forced, but there are many issues like these (adultery, punishment for stealing, punishment for murder, separation of the sexes), which are forced in many countries. Furthermore, I know the Qur'an states in Surah 2:256 : "There is no compulsion in religion, verily we have made right distinct from wrong." So we as Muslims know that we cannot force anybody to be religious. Here is my question. Are there laws (by laws, I mean enforced by a governing body) which are to be applied only to Muslims? Or should both Muslims and non-Muslims be governed by the same laws? In either case, where are we, as Muslims, to draw the line between what a person is to take upon him or herself as a personal obligation to follow God's law (like praying 5 times a day), and what should be enforced on society by a governing body to ensure the advancement and protection of that society (like making murder and stealing illegal)? I suppose another question to follow that with is, are Muslims called to enjoin Islam with the government, or practice separation of religion and state? What does the Qur'an or the Hadith say about this issue? Now, I am aware that it is extremely idealistic to think of a such a "perfect Islamic society," where people are not "forced in religous practices," yet the laws prescribed allow for social justice and social progress. I am of the opinion that the closest thing to such a society existed in the life of the Prophet (peace be upon him) when he left Mecca and established an Islamic state in Medina. I know I asked a lot of questions, but if you guys can bear with me, I would appreciate it. I hope this is not too controversial of an issue. I am only trying to know the will of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala). Thank you and Peace, Blessings, and Mercy of Allah be with you all. Saam ;-) |
| Re: The "perfect Islamic" society |
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| lifeisfitnah |
| 01/01/04 at 07:36:40 |
| [slm] i didn't get ur question clearly but i think wat ur trying to ask is whether the rules n regulations of a muslim country apply to muslims only..well i think yes it does appl to muslims only but if a christisn or a jw or any non muslim wants to be judged according to islamic laws that can also be done (e.g if one doesn't get justice according to his principles)because at the time of prophet (saw) jews and christians used to bring their cases to holy prophet (saw) anyhow no islamic law can be imposed on non muslims,the countries ur talking abt like iran (also in sadia arabia pple r forced to cover their bodies whether they r muslims or not ..this certainly isn't wat is preached by the prophet .in theses countries outwardly it seems that the things r going islamically but inwards there's a totally different story so the islamic shariah is applicable only to muslims regarding ur secnd question that how should we muslims decide which things to take on ourselves n which to leave on the goverment those things which r of serious threat to islam should be guarded by the government like taking care of zakah ,strict actions against people claiming false prophethood etc etc .there shouldn't be to much imposing of laws ..a true muslim is well aware of his rights n duties to both ALLAH n to his fellow beings..the spirit of islam is lost with the ladder of law ..if there's too much law it ends up in wrath n if there's not much islamic shariah it ends up in a social chaos ...there should be a harmony.waALLAHU aalim..i dunno if tahts the answer to ur question..ask some scholar akhi .... i didn't give any referances i jsut kept in my mind that there's no complusion in religion.. so seek answer from some knowlegeable person n enlighten us also ..jazakALLAH |
| Re: The "perfect Islamic" society |
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| faisalsb |
| 01/01/04 at 15:08:27 |
| [slm] Brother Saam your question is quite vast in it's meaning and interpretation according to my knowledge what I can tell you breifly is that there are certain sins which are punishable in this world and there are some what we will have to answer at the day of judgement. Where ever the question of Islamic Sharia is concerned either it's applicable to muslims only or it's applicable to non-muslim also. According to my knowledge it's applicable to each and every CITIZEN of the Islamic state regardless of his religion, social status and ethnicity. In certain matters non-muslims have option either to be judged my Islamic laws or laws of their own religion and that's also part of Islamic sharia. I would like to quote two instances over here first one was when one Jew commited adultary and the case was brought to Holy Prophet [saw] and Holy Prophet [saw] asked the jew to bring Torouh and the decision was made according to that. Second example is when Hazrat Ali (RAU) was Khalifa and he filed a case against a jew who had stolen a weapon of Hazrat Ali (RAU). The judge called both of them to the court and asked both of them who is owner of the weapon both of them claimed to be it's owner. The weapon was in possesion of the jew so the judge asked Hazrat Ali (RAU) did he have any witness about his claim. Hazrat Ali (RAU) said his son was his witness. The judge rejected the witness because according to Islam witness of son is not acceptable and the case of rejected also. So an Islamic law was applied in the case of non-muslim. Allah knows the best ...... |
| Re: The "perfect Islamic" society |
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| se7en |
| 01/04/04 at 07:00:50 |
| as salaamu alaykum br. saam, awesome post :) you brought up some really interesting questions.. there is an *excellent* lecture I have listened to on Shari'ah [Islamic Law] by Dr. Ingrid Mattson.. one really interesting point she made was that in a society under shari'i law the governing apparatus really had very little interference in the life of its citizens, in the private sphere.. it is only when things occured in the *public* sphere - and thus posed a harm to the society at large - that the governing authority really played a role. I'd really recommend listening to the lecture.. check it out here: http://www.windowonislam.com/archives/whatisshariah.ram we had a discussion a while back on the shari'ah.. more about women and the shari'ah.. but it really has a lot of good info in it if you want to check it out: http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/madina/YaBB.pl?board=archives;action=display;num=1063382978 let us know your thoughts :) wasalaamu alaykum |
| 01/04/04 at 07:12:57 |
| se7en |
| Re: The "perfect Islamic" society |
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| MarineLiner |
| 02/04/04 at 04:53:57 |
| [slm][quote author=Saam link=board=lighthouse;num=1072918497;start=0#0 date=12/31/03 at 19:54:56] [slm] . . . . . . . . . . . I suppose another question to follow that with is, are Muslims called to enjoin Islam with the government, or practice separation of religion and state? What does the Qur'an or the Hadith say about this issue? Now, I am aware that it is extremely idealistic to think of a such a "perfect Islamic society," where people are not "forced in religous practices," yet the laws prescribed allow for social justice and social progress. I am of the opinion that the closest thing to such a society existed in the life of the Prophet (peace be upon him) when he left Mecca and established an Islamic state in Medina. . . . . . . . . . . .[/quote][color=darkgreen]And now we have: [IMG]http://www.islamic-state.org/img/logo.gif[/IMG] [URL=http://www.islamic-state.org/method/]The method to re-establish the Islamic State (Khilafah)[/URL] Truly praise is to Allah (swt). We praise Him (swt), seek His help and forgiveness, and seek His refuge from the evils of our souls and the wrongs of our deeds. He whom Allah (swt) guides none shall misguide him and he whom Allah (swt) misguides none shall guide him; and I bear witness that there is no god but Allah (swt), Alone with no associates, and that Muhammad is His servant and His Messenger. Allah (swt) said, [i] [IMG]http://www.wponline.org/vil/quran/arabic/3_104.gif[/IMG] "Let there arise out of you a party, inviting to the good, ordering what is right, and forbidding what is wrong. And they are those who are successful" [Ale-Imran:103] [/i] So it's depend on us, should we leave it alone or begin to implement. Wallahu a'lam bishshowab.[/color] |
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