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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Habby New Year |
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| jannah |
| 01/01/04 at 00:55:54 |
| ... for those of us who have to write 2004 on our checks when we're not even used to 2003 yet ;) a [] on me... |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| timbuktu |
| 01/01/04 at 01:22:10 |
| [slm] sis jannah does this mean the dissenting Ikhwaans' contract to stay on board is renewed for a year? :) and why only happy year at start of the solar year habby every day, nay every second, to all of you :) |
| 01/01/04 at 01:45:38 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| paula |
| 01/01/04 at 01:26:38 |
| [slm] [] Happy New Year !! … There are 2 hrs left to go here on the West Coast of the US. … Makes me wondering if Sis Azizah is still out in the Snow by moonlight :). We’ve been having a snowstorm over this last week & it’s forecasted more to come (smile). :-[ Thinking we need to have an image option back so we can share some of this beautiful cold/white/winter weather with everyone. [wlm] |
| 01/01/04 at 01:29:13 |
| paula |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| Caraj |
| 01/01/04 at 01:50:01 |
| [quote author=simply_sister link=board=bebzi;num=1072936555;start=0#2 date=01/01/04 at 01:26:38] [slm] [] Happy New Year !! … There are 2 hrs left to go here on the West Coast of the US. … Makes me wondering if Sis Azizah is still out in the Snow by moonlight :). We’ve been having a snowstorm over this last week & it’s forecasted more to come (smile). :-[ Thinking we need to have an image option back so we can share some of this beautiful cold/white/winter weather with everyone. [wlm] [/quote] mmmmmmm (sigh) wish I was running dogs in Alaska by moonlight :) But I did have fun in the snow today ;) Happy New Year Everyone!!!!!!! 1 hr 10 mins to go on the west coast. Another year with my Medina Family ;) I feel very blessed May Allah bless each and everyone of you in this coming year. May he keep us all happy and well and serving him. Simply_Sister did you get snow down your way? I hear hwy 5 was closed a couple days back due to the storm |
| 01/01/04 at 01:52:09 |
| Caraj |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| paula |
| 01/01/04 at 02:15:15 |
| [slm] Oooh yes, we've had snow since the beginning of the week. I had to take my nephew back home yesterday ... 2.5 hr drive one way & had actually kept him over a couple days longer (because of the weather & I-5) but decided to take the break (in weather) to get him back before we get more/ they’ve been forecasting more & there’s work to be done too … poor little guys been stuck with me (hehe/enjoyable)…Anyway, it’s no joke I-5 has been a mess mostly between Salem & Willsonville & it was slick... I think I saw 6 cars or so slide off the road on my way back. But no injuries & I myself made it home... Alhamdu lillah. Nice to hear you’ve had some fun in it… It’s soooo beautiful … 'cold' but 'Beautiful'.. Masha’ Allah. [wlm] |
| 01/01/04 at 04:20:23 |
| paula |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| Halima |
| 01/02/04 at 03:27:40 |
| Happy New Year to all Madinates, veterans (old members), the new, those to yet join and those who have left for one reason or another! For me the solar new year brings amazement because of its dawn in different parts of the world at different intervals, sometimes such wide gaps in times. It dawned first in New Zealand and Australia when it was 4:00 p.m. (31/12/03) here in Nairobi (around 8:00 a.m. 31/12/03 in New York). Then followed by Asia, Tokyo, Hongkong, China, etc. all still ahead of Africa in time. Followed by my City Nairobi which is in the same time zone with Moscow and Baghdad. Then Greece, Berlin ahead of Britain. Mid-night in London was 3:00 a.m. (01/01/04) here in Nairobi. And midnight in New York was 8:00 a.m. January 1, 2004 here in Nairobi!!! Well folks, may it be a year of PEACE, TOLERANCE and UNDERSTANDING, Biidhnillah, Ameen. Halima |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| Sabr |
| 01/02/04 at 10:40:04 |
| [slm] Am confused ?? :-/ Is it the islamic NEW YEAR?? I thought today’s date is Friday 9 Thw al-Qi`dah 1424 A.H. *???????? The Islamic New year does not start in Muharrum?? HMMMMMM ??? |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| jannah |
| 01/02/04 at 10:45:11 |
| Most of us do not write 1424 in our checkbooks and do not go by the lunar islamic calendar in every day life.. Sorry but it's reality. We speak English too can't change that either. I also remember when we tried to say Happy Islamic New Year and that got shot down as bid'ah/haram or something.. so please just relax and if you find something unislamic whatever remember that's your personal level of iman and imposing it on others is not the way to do dawah. |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| Sabr |
| 01/02/04 at 11:20:05 |
| [slm] I do not think that I am imposing anything on any1 …Allah made clear what is right and what is wrong. If u as the administrator want to emulate the kuffar by saying happy New Year to every1 and have other members follow you then it is your right since u can do whatever u want! Don’t give me the lecture about dawah !! I do not wish to be a member of this site anymore so please delete me since it seem that your opinion is the only one that counts !! Remember my sister haram is clear and halal is clear! PS : Whatever new year it is how can it be "happy" when so many of our brothers and sisters died in Iran . There is no power or might except with ALLAH WE we all follow the sunnah of Muhammad [saw] [wlm] |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| timbuktu |
| 01/02/04 at 12:36:58 |
| [slm] sister Sabr i understand your point, but please do not withdraw like this. these are not the times of withdrawal yet. there is still a lot of dawah to be done with hikmah. isolation is not the answer. |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| jannah |
| 01/03/04 at 08:25:48 |
| [wlm] This is the absolute perfect example of what I am talking about that is wrong with the board. There is nothing wrong with saying happy new year. I would like to see a reputable scholar say that it is haram. AND I can tell you that there are scholars that DO NOT consider it haram. So when you post "gee I think this is haram" "haram is clear and halal is clear" you are really imposing your "fatwa" on other people in a way that is un-dawah like. This is the exact point I'm trying to make. Perhaps it's just not possible to have any discussions on here anymore because there will ALWAYS be someone who disagrees on a topic and considers it haram. They post and the thread automatically turns into haram zone. Let me just for a moment show you some of the visions I see of the "sinking of the Madina" someone posts about how they are depressed ---> someone posts how it is 'islamically wrong' to be depressed ---> person gets more depressed! someone posts about waxing ---> someone posts how hair removal is haram someone posts about problems praying at their job ---> someone posts how women shouldn't be working at jobs anyway someone posts about trying to find something nice for a wedding that is also islamic ----> someone posts how black burka is the only acceptable clothing for Muslims someone posts about struggling with Islam ---> someone posts how what they are doing is haram ---> first person then leaves islam *this has happenned on the board too many real examples... too many "hits" to people's iman. more harm than good... once this board stops being more beneficial Islamically it has sunk... there is no point to it's existance Still I really think we should be able to somehow respect the differences. Scholars differ, and differ with respect... why can't we? About deleting your membership, just don't login for 3 months and the system will automatically delete your account. As for Iran I can understand your being upset, but as the khateeb said here this past week it is Allah's Qadr and wisdom and we cannot be unhappy with that. One Hadith even consider them shaheed. Who would not wish to die a shaheed! |
| 01/03/04 at 09:31:31 |
| jannah |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| mujaahid4ever |
| 01/03/04 at 16:29:23 |
| Assalaamu-alaikum Warahmatulaahi Wabarakaatuhu ;-) ....dont wanna be a killjoy or nothing, but everyone put your drinks down and stop celebrating.......as this is the Christian New Year, in Fact its not even that, its a new year the christians have adopted from the Pagans :P So drinks and food down dudes, and please leave the room......thats it, towards the door you go, all of you............no, dont look back.......... (quickly gathers all leftover cakes and food and puts them in a carrier bag, and takes them all home) ;D happy new year...ehem....err......i mean walaikumasalaam ;) m4e |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| mujaahid4ever |
| 01/03/04 at 17:21:44 |
| Assalamu-alaikum Sister jannah may i address some points you make, openly and honestly? Jazaakullah khair ;-) I cannot quote so will use these signs to quote your words my dear sister << and >> <<There is nothing wrong with saying happy new year. I would like to see a reputable scholar say that it is haram. AND I can tell you that there are scholars that DO NOT consider it haram.>> I dont wish to delve too deep into this issue as its not something i honestly know much about, however what i do know is that its ok to say happy new year in response as a way of being polite, so for example if a non-muslim wishes you happy new year, they are being polite hence as a muslim you should respond in a polite way. I have non-muslims say "Eid Mubarak" to me when its eid, should i tell them that i cannot accept "eid mubaraks" from a non-muslim? no. Hence i agree with sis Jannah on this to a certain degree. <<So when you post "gee I think this is haram" "haram is clear and halal is clear" you are really imposing your "fatwa" on other people in a way that is un-dawah like. >> But sister, this is where i disagree with you, as this is just whats leading to an unreal/manufactured atmosphere. As a discussion board/community board, people will always disagree and its this diversity which builds a thriving, successful community. However if you try and force everyone to follow the same line, you are asking people to almost disregard their own opinions and just follow a certain view, just for the sake of keeping people happy. This is what leads to "fake" postings. <<Perhaps it's just not possible to have any discussions on here anymore because there will ALWAYS be someone who disagrees on a topic and considers it haram. They post and the thread automatically turns into haram zone.>> Again i disagree with you Sister Jannah. You seem to be implying that people should not have a difference of opinion. But then isnt everyone simply towing the line for the sake of simplicity/compliance?, the exact reason why many end up posting views which seem almost "fake"? In Islaam, as we all know, there are many groups and many different schools of thought. Not everyone is the same, in fact even in each and every particular group, you will find differences of opinions. So trying to remove these differences from this community as a whole, or to try and hide them, is next to impossible. No matter what stance you take on any particular issue relating to Islaam or Muslims, you will always find someone who is passionately opposed to it. I truly believe people should be allowed to express their differences of opinion as long as they dont start preaching or putting others down, but rather state their side of the argument and why they feel the way they do, and leave it at that. An old saying springs to mind over this issue: "you can please some people some of the time, but you can never please all the people all of the time" <<Let me just for a moment show you some of the visions I see of the "sinking of the Madina">> Sister Jannah i feel these issues are not sinking the Madina, but the way in which people express their views is where the problem really lies. So for example if someone truly believes that hair removal is haraam, allow them to say that, and allow them the freedom to say why they feel that way, without jumping on them telling them they are out of order for having that view. However i believe the person crosses the line if they try and claim that anyone disagreeing with them is either a bad muslim or they actually get abusive towards this person. <<too many real examples... too many "hits" to people's iman. more harm than good... once this board stops being more beneficial Islamically it has sunk... there is no point to it's existance>> Sister, this board is currently, or so it seems to me (based on what people are saying) going through a crisis phase. THIS is the test every community faces at some point, be it in the real world or the cyber world. Its how the many members of this board come together to help the board through this period which will eventually define the strengh of the community, and define its true identity. We all, as muslims and non-muslims face crisis at some point in our lives, we sometimes arrive at life changing moments, moments which either change us for the better, or change us for the worse. I have not been reading these boards consistently over the years to know if this is the first crisis (if you can call it a crisis!!) in identity, but if so, this may well be the turning point which either makes or breaks this community. But one important point i would really like to bring up. At the moment throughout the western world, many muslims are going though an identity crisis, coming under constant pressure from the media and the public. Its at times like these we muslims need to show strength and be a source of inspiration to those muslims who are confused and lost and dont know which way to turn. We need to show that we as a community, even an online community, can have our differences, even passionate differences, yet still be united as one strong community whom muslims can turn to for help and support. I feel the Madina can be such a place, if it already isnt, but what we cannot do, is fall into despair if the ship enters rough waters. <<Still I really think we should be able to somehow respect the differences. Scholars differ, and differ with respect... why can't we?>> I agree 100%. <<About deleting your membership, just don't login for 3 months and the system will automatically delete your account.>> Sister this is not the right way to approach such a query. Sometimes people are upset and hurt, and lash out at others in angre, often saying things they dont mean. Instead of pushing them away we should take a step back, and give the person time to calm down. Muslims all over the world are going through a difficult time. Its times like these where we should all be there for one another and put our diferences aside as much as possible. Stand strong and be united. Sister i apologise if i have said anything here which has upset you or any other members, but i strongly and passionately believe in what i have said ;-) Walaiakum asalaam Your brother in Islaam mujaahid4ever |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| timbuktu |
| 01/03/04 at 18:36:05 |
| [slm] so many people have complained about the quote thing. it is simple: when you start a quote, type: [ quote] follow this up with the quotation text & then type: [/quote] make sure there is no space between "[" or "]" and "quote" or "/quote" in the above example, i have added a space between "[' and "quote", so that you can see the instructions. now, if i remove that space, the quote will appear:- [quote] follow this up with the quotation text & then type: [/quote] & yes, there is a quote shortcut. look at the top right of the post you want a quote from, among one or two other things, it also says: Quote bring your mouse pointer to this "Quote", & it lights up, you click, & there you are :) |
| 01/03/04 at 19:33:49 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| BroHanif |
| 01/03/04 at 21:19:10 |
| Salaams, Hey have a great 365 days to ALL MEMBERS on the board. Be they the best years of your life and may they be prosperous. C'mon people lets all think to why we are here, some of the posts on this board make me think whether I should even stay here or not. I find some of the posts very naive, allow me to say this but I'm 30 years old and I really don't have much time for childish behaviour. Can everyone grow up and treat each other with some respect and honour? Jeez at times I feel like why even bother but something in me keeps telling me that the world is not full of bigots and mindless morons who have one thinking, but its full of people who are creative, articulate and have some reasonable intellect and who differ. If Jannah says happy new year then I bid her happy new year, really have we stooped so low that every small act we now do is deemed as an act of the KUFR??? And me and Sis Jannah disagree on some points, heck I disagree with my close friend Nomi and with many others. But never for one second would I call him/her or anyone else imitating an act as a KUFR? If there is a disagreement then I would ask all members to say it in matters that are polite, Have we forgotten the verse of the Quran: Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair exhortion and argue with them with that which is the best. Lo! your Lord is best aware of him who strays from his way, and is best aware of those who go right." (Qur'an, an-Nahl:125) What's wrong with some people that if its not there way then there is no way? Its either they are right and the whole world are wrong if they don't agree. Forgive me for saying this but sometimes this place is like cancer, a lot of the people become morbid, the laughter has ceased. Why? because its down to each and every board member. Yes that's right you and me. We either make it or break it. As Jannah has giving the example above its sadly true, when was the last time there was a post that gave hope to others? When was a post that filled you with joy? When was there a post that filled you with tears of laughter and had you rolling on the floor? When was a post that made you think heck the sis is right and hey I better pull my socks up if I want to succeed? Why has the ummah lost the inspiration to do dawah, real dawah? Not some fake dawah that if I bid someone New Year then I'm labelled as a KUFR? Why is it time and time again those who read the Seerah of the Prophet [saw] find him a hope, a light that guided mankind. Was the prophet of Allah only sent for the Muslims? Did he not inspire hope in even those who were not Muslims? This is my point if 300 board members come on board and act like they got cancer of the throat, genitals, breasts, backside and you name it then that crap is gonna spread to other Muslims and Non Muslims off the board. That's why I don't find it a surprise that our whole community are just plodding along at times. We need people with enthusiasm, charisma and Hikmah to lift us from our current state. Sure the Muslim world has gone through a lot but are you a quitter or a winner? Are you a person who is inspired by encouraging others to do good but in ways that are polite and respectful? Or are you going to take the short route and the easiest one for your nafs and say hey that's bidah and your a Kafr agent of change? Ask yourself if you, yes that's you again, if you don't make the sacrifice for the change who is going to do it? Don't count on anyone else but yourself, see yourself as a person who can do something. Your not an average Joe/Jane/Aysha/Abdul you CAN make a difference be it on the board here or outside in this small world of ours, are you willing to lead others or do you want to be led by others? No one likes bloody wingers be they on board or in real life, no one likes to be knocked down harsh fully. Above all people like to be near positive people, do-ers I call em. People with energy, and guts to do* People who are faced with a wall in their lives but manage to knock it down or go over it. This board can be both a place where we can come and feel like crap or a place where we genuinely inspire others. I know why I'm here and seriously not to whinge and to moan. There are enough bigots out there who do that for me. I'm here to take hope and give hope to others, I want everyone of you to succeed, in this life and the next. I want everyone of you to know that we are all one family we may not get along as families do but hell we are there for each other when the going gets tough and right now we need our family to work together. Sure we might not have the khilafah by the coming hajj nor we might not free Palestine in our lifetime but hey that shouldn't stop us, it should only make us stronger to succeed. So lets forget our differences, clean our intentions and do good. Salaams, Hanif |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| Caraj |
| 01/03/04 at 22:02:11 |
| Ok, can someone explain to me about the Islamic calender? A month is? How long it lasts? What are the names of the months? We are at year 14 something cause why? How many months in an Islamic year? Is there any celebration for the Islamic new year? Thank you for the responses and education in advance :) |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| WhiteSomali |
| 01/03/04 at 22:30:41 |
| [slm] all. ;D Bro Hanif I like your post alot, very inspirin jazakAllah khair ;D Okay, if I'm wrong about any of dis pls correct me ppl cuz I wouldn wanna accidently mislead pplz ;D Azizah, there are 12 months on the Islamic Calender (Hijri calender), each one of dem has 29 or 30 days depending on the moon. Also there's 7 days in a week, same as the common calender. Like you prolly kno, esp. since I jus said it, the Hijri calender is based on the cycles of the moon and the new month begins when the new moon is sighted. The Hijri year is right now 1424, because the calender starts when Prophet Muhammad [saw] migrated from Makkah to Madinah. The months are (Shame on me I dun even know the order or half of the names of the months ::) had to look it up): Muharram, Safar, Rabi Al-Awwal, Rabi Al-Akhar, Jumada Al-Awwal, Jumada Al-Akhirah, Rajab, Shaban, Ramadan, Shawwal, Dhul-Qadah, Dhul-Hijjah. As for celebrating the new year, that's when hajj and Eid al-Adha takes place, but if I'm wrong about that I'll feel really dumb ::) Salamz ya'll. |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| paula |
| 01/03/04 at 23:23:30 |
| [slm] There is so much I would like to say & yet a book isn’t flowing fast enough for the posts (smile): Respectfully, I would mostly like to express … I believe Sister Sabr had a right to say what she did; I don’t think her initial post was at all degrading. Lighterhearted in content but our Beloved Prophet [saw] himself exhibited lightheartedness … I believe she has a right to her opinion in any manner that it flows (sure if it was direct & rude … but that was a long shot from direct & rude … & it appeared the follow up was more of a reaction post & mixed with a lot more events from the board than just this one.. that's just how it appeared on this end). We do what we do because the positions we stand in, the view we’re standing from & the purpose we have to fulfill. She might be standing at a point that she needs to be asking such a question (for her own benefit) & may be held accountable if she didn’t question it? I don’t think the point of ‘words are going to detour someone from Islam’ holds a whole lot of water… Allahu Alam. I know I’m ignorant but I do believe there is a higher power & hand that presides. I believe that with all sincerity. Quite possibly we need not worry ‘what & why’ someone does something so much & enjoy what’s here. A lot of that happiness is lacking because we are not just enjoying & smiling /discussing easily. (There’s a lot of preemptive thought of ulterior motives…that’s hurting the board a lot). We are not Saints… talking about it won’t make us such. This is a great board & a wonderful community of siblings. I like how Sister Sophia expressed it in the other thread ‘things rarely stay the same’ … as such… rough waters are indeed a part of life. (One Nice Thing: there has been a lot of activity & a lot of voices heard over the last few days…. That has been enjoyable in it’s own right… very enjoyable) [wlm] |
| 01/04/04 at 00:03:31 |
| paula |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| Nomi |
| 01/04/04 at 00:31:35 |
| [slm] Sis Sabr i know you are reading this.. hehe... trust me... you are reading this :)... So how is your family and have you guys recovered from that kidnapping etc that you mentioned in your recent post? Okay, the reason i'm responding to you is that i had a fight with my brother coupla days back (we fight alot :) ) The fight was over wishing others the new year. My point of view was that the christian calender started before the birth of our Prophet [saw] and hence before Islaam. So those people were actually Muslims coz the final devine law hadn't come to mankind yet so infact the christian year is Muslim year too. May Allah forgive me if i'm wrong. BroHanif, appreciate your post man, but you didn't have to lie about your age ::) Now that you've started it, i'll give them your correct age in 12 hours so if you wanna save yourself some embarrassment for the lie, go ahead and give them the correct one for yourself :P ps: oh and sis sabr, we need representatives from your part of the world. So keep on contributing and ask your friends to join as well. Thats an ORDER :P pps: The only reason i dont say happy new year to others is due to all this non-sense around me that gets created on new year night. ppl drinking and clubbing and dancing, yea it happens here too ::) |
| 01/04/04 at 00:47:06 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| bhaloo |
| 01/04/04 at 02:15:51 |
| [slm] I actually didn't start to read this thread till much later after the fighting started. I don't think we've ever had a "habby new year" thread before. Personally I'm not comfortable saying "happy new year" to anyone, because its not a Muslim celebration. If someone says it to me, I don't say anything to him/her. And definitely for Christmas I tell people I don't celebrate it, I don't respond to them with the same greeting. Someone was asking for proof in this thread, and perhaps what I post may benefit some insha'Allah. The following 2 parts are taken from islam-qa.com What is the ruling on celebrating Christmas New Year? Praise be to Almighty Allah Jallah Wa'ala Blessed and Exalted Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (May Almighty Allah have mercy on him) said in his commentary on the Verse interpretation of the meaning of Verse 72 of Surah Al-Furqaan "And those who do not witness falsehood [al-zoor]" As regards the festivals of the Mushrikeen: they combine confusion, physical desires and falsehood, there is nothing in them that is of any religious benefit, and the instant gratification involved in them only ends up in pain. Thus they are falsehood, and witnessing them means attending them. This Ayah itself praises and commends (those who do not witness falsehood), which has the meaning of urging people to avoid taking part in their festivals and other kinds of falsehood. We understand that it is bad to attend their festivals because they are called al-zoor (falsehood). It indicates that it is haraam to do this for many reasons, because Almighty Allah has called it al-zoor. Allah condemns the one who speaks falsehood [al-zoor] even if no-one else is harmed by it, as in the Verse forbidding zihaar [a form of divorce in which the man says to his wife "You are to me like the back of my mother"], where He says (interpretation of the meaning): "And verily, they utter an ill word and a lie [zooran] [al-Mujaadilah 58:2]. And Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): "So shun the abomination of idols, and shun lying speech (false statements) [al-zoor]. [al-Hajj 22:30]. So the one who does al-zoor is condemned in this fashion. In the Sunnah:Hazrat Anas ibn Maalik (may Allah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allah peace and blessings of Allah be upon him came to Madinah and they had two days in which they would (relax and) play. He said, "What are these two days? They said, "We used to play (on these two days) during the days of Jaahiliyyah.The Messenger of Allah peace and blessings of Allah be upon him said: "Allah has given you something better instead of them: Yawm al-Duhaa [Eid al-Adha] and Yawm al-Fitr [Eid al-Fitr]. (Reported by Abu Dawood). This indicates clearly that the Prophet peace and blessings of Allah be upon him definitely forbade his Ummah to celebrate the festivals of the kuffar, and he strove to wipe them out by all possible means. The fact that the religion of the People of the Book is accepted does not mean that their festivals are approved of or should be preserved by the Ummah, just as the rest of their kufr and sins are not approved of. Indeed, the Prophet peace and blessings of Allah be upon him went to great lengths to command his ummah to be different from them in many issues that are mubaah (permitted) and in many ways of worship, lest that lead them to be like them in other matters too. This being different was to be a barrier in all aspects, because the more different you are from the people of Jahannum, the less likely you are to commit the acts of the people of Hell. The first of them is: The Hadith "Every people has its festival, and this is our festival" implies exclusivity, that every people has its own festival, as Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): "For every nation there is a direction to which they face (in their prayers) [al-Baqarah 2:148] and "To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way" [al-Maa’idah 5:48]. This implies that each nation has its own ways. The laam in li-kulli [for every to each] implies exclusivity. So if the Jews have a festival and the Christians have a festival, it is just for them, and we should not have any part in it, just as we do not share their Qiblah (direction of prayer) or their laws. The second of them is: one of the conditions set out by Hazrat Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) and agreed upon by the Sahabah and by all the Fuqaha’ after them is: that those of the People of the Book who have agreed to live under Islamic rule (ahl al-dhimmah) should not celebrate their festivals openly in Daar al-Islam (lands under Islamic rule). If the Muslims have agreed to prevent them from celebrating openly, how could it be right for the Muslims to celebrate them? If a Muslim celebrates them, is that not worse than if a Kaafir does so openly? The only reason that we forbade them to celebrate their festivals openly is because of the corruption involved in them, because of the sin or symbols of sin. In either case, the Muslim is forbidden from sin or the symbols of sin. Even if there was no evil involved apart from the Kaafir feeling encouraged to celebrate openly because of the Muslim’s actions, how can a Muslim do that? The evil involved (in their festivals) will be explained below, Insha'Allah. Al-Bayhaqi reported with a Sahih isnaad in Baab karaahiyat al-dukhool ala ahl al-dhimmah fi kanaa’isihim wa’l-tashabbuh bihim yawmi nawroozihim wa maharjaanihim (Chapter on the abhorrence of entering the churches of ahl al-dhimmah on the occasion of their New Year and other celebrations): From Sufyaan al-Thawri from Thawr ibn Yazeed from Ata’ ibn Deenaar who said: Umar said: "Do not learn the language of the non-Arabs, do not enter upon the Mushrikeen in their churches on their feast-days, for the wrath (of Allah) is descending upon them." Umar ibn al-Khattaab said: "Avoid the enemies of Allah on their festivals". It was reported with a saheeh isnaad from Abu Usaamah: from Abu’l-Mugheerah from Abd-Allaah ibn Amr: "Whoever lives in the land of the non-Arabs and celebrates their New Year and their festivals, and imitates them until he dies in that state, will be gathered with them on the Day of Resurrection." Umar forbade entering their churches on the day of their festival, so how about doing some of the things they do on those days, or doing things that are a part of their religion? Is not going along with their actions worse than learning their language? Is not doing some of the things they do on their festival worse than just entering upon them? If divine wrath is descending upon them on the day of their festival because of what they do, then is not the one who does what they do, or a part of it, also exposed to the same punishment? Do not the words "Avoid the enemies of Allah on their festivals mean that we should not meet them or join them on those days? So how about the one who actually celebrates their festivals? Abd-Allaah ibn Amr clearly stated: “Whoever lives in the land of the non-Arabs and celebrates their New Year and their festivals, and imitates them until he dies in that state, will be gathered with them on the Day of Resurrection." This implies that the one who joins in with them in all of these matters is a Kaafir, or that doing this is one of the major sins (kabaa’ir) that will doom one to Hell; the former meaning is what is apparent from the wording. He mentioned "and Allah knows best " the one who lives in their land, because at the time of Abd-Allaah ibn Amr and the other Sahaabah, they used to forbid open celebration of Kaafir festivals in the Muslim lands, and none of the Muslims imitated them in their festivals; that was possible only when living in the lands of the Kaafirs. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) refused to even acknowledge the name of their festivals which were exclusively theirs, so how about actually celebrating them? Ahmad mentioned the meaning of the reports narrated from Umar and Ali (may Allah be pleased with them) on this topic, and his companions discussed the matter of festivals. Imaam Abu’l-Hasan al-Aamidi said: the one who is known as Ibn al-Baghdaadi said in his book Umdat al-Haadir wa Kifaayat al-Musaafir: "It is not permitted to attend the festivals of the Christians and Jews". Ahmad stated this in the report of Muhannaa, and his evidence for that is the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): And those who do not witness falsehood [al-zoor][al-Furqaan 25:72]. He said: (This is) al-Sha’aneen and their festivals. He said: The Muslims are to be prevented from entering upon them in their synagogues and churches. From Iqtida’ al-Siraat al-Mustaqeem Mukhaalifat Ashaab al-Jaheem by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, p. 183. "If you disbelieve, then verily, Allaah is not in need of you, He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. . ." [al-Zumar 39:7] ". . . This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion . . ." [al-Maa’idah 5:3] "Whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Al-Imraan 3:85] Muslims are forbidden to imitate the kuffar by having parties on such occasions, because the Prophet SAW (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: "Whoever imitates a people is one of them." Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyah said in his book Iqtidaa’ al-siraat al-mustaqeem mukhaalifat ashaab al-jaheem: "Imitating them in some of their festivals implies that one is pleased with their false beliefs and practices, and gives them the hope that they may have the opportunity to humiliate and mislead the weak." Allah is the One Whom we ask to make the Muslims feel proud of their religion, to help them adhere steadfastly to it, and to make them victorious over their enemies, for He is the Strong and Omnipotent. (Majmoo’ah Fataawa wa Rasaa’il al-Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen, 3/369) ;=================================================== Greeting the kuffaar on Christmas and other religious holidays of theirs is haraam, by consensus, as Ibn al-Qayyim, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah: "Congratulating the kuffaar on the rituals that belong only to them is haraam by consensus, as is congratulating them on their festivals and fasts by saying ‘A happy festival to you’ or ‘May you enjoy your festival,’ and so on. If the one who says this has been saved from kufr, it is still forbidden. It is like congratulating someone for prostrating to the cross, or even worse than that. It is as great a sin as congratulating someone for drinking wine, or murdering someone, or having illicit sexual relations, and so on. Many of those who have no respect for their religion fall into this error; they do not realize the offensiveness of their actions. Whoever congratulates a person for his disobedience or bid’ah or kufr exposes himself to the wrath and anger of Allaah." Congratulating the kuffaar on their religious festivals is haraam to the extent described by Ibn al-Qayyim because it implies that one accepts or approves of their rituals of kufr, even if one would not accept those things for oneself. But the Muslim should not aceept the rituals of kufr or congratulate anyone else for them, because Allaah does not accept any of that at all, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): "If you disbelieve, then verily, Allaah is not in need of you, He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. . ." [al-Zumar 39:7] ". . . This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion . . ." [al-Maa’idah 5:3] So congratulating them is forbidden, whether they are one’s colleagues at work or otherwise. If they greet us on the occasion of their festivals, we should not respond, because these are not our festivals, and because they are not festivals which are acceptable to Allaah. These festivals are innovations in their religions, and even those which may have been prescribed formerly have been abrogated by the religion of Islaam, with which Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to the whole of mankind. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): "Whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85] It is haraam for a Muslim to accept invitations on such occasions, because this is worse than congratulating them as it implies taking part in their celebrations. Similarly, Muslims are forbidden to imitate the kuffaar by having parties on such occasions, or exchanging gifts, or giving out sweets or food, or taking time off work, etc., because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever imitates a people is one of them." Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyah said in his book Iqtidaa’ al-siraat al-mustaqeem mukhaalifat ashaab al-jaheem: "Imitating them in some of their festivals implies that one is pleased with their false beliefs and practices, and gives them the hope that they may have the opportunity to humiliate and mislead the weak." Whoever does anything of this sort is a sinner, whether he does it out of politeness or to be friendly, or because he is too shy to refuse, or for whatever other reason, because this is hypocrisy in Islaam, and because it makes the kuffaar feel proud of their religion. Allaah is the One Whom we ask to make the Muslims feel proud of their religion, to help them adhere steadfastly to it, and to make them victorious over their enemies, for He is the Strong and Omnipotent. Majmoo’ah Fataawa wa Rasaa’il al-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 3/369) (www.islam-qa.com) ;================================================== Having said that, I think some people may view New Year's or Thanksgiving as not being a religious holliday and that maybe why they think its ok, Allahu alam. I wouldn't mind seeing a scholarly opinion that supports this view, but the opinion I personally follow, is that I don't greet others on these days and I feel most comfortable doing that. There's no reason to get upset or angry or pout. Step back and consider this as a test from Allah (SWT), there's no reason to get upset and ready to fight over such an issue and get frustrated and say I'm leaving this board or that there can't be any discussions on this board again. I am seeing something amazing these last 2 days, some of the people from the past are posting, I'm starting to feel motivated. |
| 01/04/04 at 02:20:13 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: Habby New Year |
|---|
| Caraj |
| 01/04/04 at 02:46:40 |
| [quote author=bhaloo link=board=bebzi;num=1072936555;start=10#19 date=01/04/04 at 02:15:51][slm] Having said that, I think some people may view New Year's or Thanksgiving as not being a religious holliday and that maybe why they think its ok, Allahu alam. I wouldn't mind seeing a scholarly opinion that supports this view, but the opinion I personally follow, is that I don't greet others on these days and I feel most comfortable doing that. There's no reason to get upset or angry or pout. Step back and consider this as a test from Allah (SWT), there's no reason to get upset and ready to fight over such an issue and get frustrated and say I'm leaving this board or that there can't be any discussions on this board again. I am seeing something amazing these last 2 days, some of the people from the past are posting, I'm starting to feel motivated.[/quote] I too would like to know a scholary opinion. I myself never thought of New Years as a religious holiday but just a time to think of a new fresh start, a new year to look forward to. Christmas, well now that I know how it origionated and that most Christians I know don't even know how it started, I am no longer fond of it and actually see it as a commercialized thing. If I see something I think someone would like I get it for them cause I love them not cause it is a certain day. Thanksgiving is kind of cool, but very day and every meal we should give thanks. I think explaining you don't celebrate a holiday someone else does is cool cause then they get to learn something new if you explain why. But I realize in passing it is sometimes not an option. Can someone explain the Muslims holidays? Like what exactly does eid mean? Isn't there 2 eids? One after Ramadan and what is the other about? |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| bhaloo |
| 01/04/04 at 03:22:27 |
| [slm] Yeah, there are 2 Eids, I think we had a thread on it, and Se7en da link-it will have to look it up, if not I guess someone can go through that whole posting. At first I thought I was able to fix that thread in the UCC, but when I thought it was fixed, Jaihoon posted in the UCC, and now that thread is broken, the file is somehow deleted, so that means Jannah will have to fix it herself. :( |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| paula |
| 01/04/04 at 03:56:24 |
| [slm] Alhamdu lillah [quote]Having said that, I think some people may view New Year's or Thanksgiving as not being a religious holiday and that maybe why they think its ok, Allahu alam.[/quote] Respectfully… even as Jannah stated (celebrations aside) the reality that it is truly a “New Year” for us that we undoubtedly “live” (checks & all) … I think this opinion outlined the acknowledgement of greeting pretty clear. Even if we were to [u]say[/u] Happy New Year in the most reality based since, it gives room for acknowledgement of the pagan traditions associated with the event. (possibly more harm that good … infact possibly haraam). [quote]Congratulating the kuffaar on their religious festivals is haraam to the extent described by Ibn al-Qayyim because it implies that one accepts or approves of their rituals of kufr, even if one would not accept those things for oneself[/quote] (smile)... I’m not sure how reliable this site may be but here’s an interesting rundown of some events behind New Years dating way back:http://wilstar.com/holidays/newyear.htm religious or not, it is an innovation in many sense & does fall well beyond any concept of just living a New Calendar Year in my perception as well. Astaghfir Allah … as innocent as it all would seem, I think I’ll now have to decline your virtual [] Jannah… ;) Respectfully though (in a good way)... I know you ment it harmlessly... I however am faced with Greeting all the time in my society & had never considered it deeper before ... I'm with brother Bhaloo, better safe than sorry on a questionable topic. May Allah(swt) continue to assist & guide us all… Ameen [quote]I am seeing something amazing these last 2 days, some of the people from the past are posting, I'm starting to feel motivated. [/quote] Prayers that motivation may continue..... Insha' Allah Jazak Allahu Khairan Brother [wlm] |
| 01/04/04 at 21:23:25 |
| paula |
| Re: Habby New Year |
|---|
| WhatDFish |
| 01/05/04 at 00:41:15 |
| [slm] Ibn Khaldun said in a book (Muqaddimah i think, ill have to check) about the Muslims in Spain - "When I saw the Muslims imitating the kuffar, i knew their downfall was coming or inevitable." i believe Jannah should have known she would be courting trouble when she started this thread, so, to avoid fitnah, she should have exercised some wisdom. you dont need a fatwa to know that imitating the kuffar is wrong when Rasulullah [saw] forbade it. besides its not good dawah either yeah as it could mislead news muslims on the board. cheers and wa assalaamu`alaikum warahmatullah! |
| 01/05/04 at 00:51:49 |
| WhatDFish |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| jannah |
| 01/05/04 at 02:30:18 |
| [wlm] Sorry I don't agree with y'alls fatwas. I could post my own cut-n-paste ones but what would be the point. I think that if there is a disagreement of this sort on the board those who disagree should not jump on other people. Just pretend it's not meant for you. After all this is a message board not the Islamic Khalifah where we have to enforce one brand of Islam. sigh, i was just thinking i wonder what would happen if a muslim went up to anyone in real life and said 'happy new year' and got the 'haram! you're following the kafirs!' slap in the face as answer... talk about anti-dawah |
| 01/05/04 at 04:02:19 |
| jannah |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| WhiteSomali |
| 01/05/04 at 03:25:05 |
| [slm] bruthaz and sistaz ;D Well, it's no secret dat I'm no Sheikh :) But while it's true that some scholars hold the opinion that bidding others Happy New Year is Haram, it doesn't sound so far fetched to me that there'd be Sheikhs who say it isn't. Of course that's jus an assumption becuz I never actually checked ::) But isn't saying Happy New Year in a way the same as wishing someone to have a Good Day? The phrase Happy New Year simply implies that we're wishing the recipient a joyful and bountiful 365 days. Of course that's just my opinion and I'm definately not making my own fatwas, but I'd be surprised if there weren't some Sheikhs who hold a similar opinion to that. In the future, let's all try to see the other persons perspective before we starting jumping on each other, and no that's not directed at any specific person :) That said, Happy New Year to everyone who will accept it, and may Allah bless you with good tidings during the course of the earth's next circling of the sun for anyone who won't ;D [slm] |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| MIT |
| 01/06/04 at 07:12:00 |
| as-salaamu alaikum Uthman, that was exactly the quote that came to my mind when i saw this thread. When you start down this road of adopting other people's customs and habits and phrases, where does it stop? My personal feeling on this thread is surprise. Its one thing to greet or respond to a greeting of 'happy new year' to someone at work or your neighbour under the excuse of courtesy/politeness, but it is something else entirely to introduce it onto a Muslim-dominated discussion board. What is the need? And my brother Ahmad, Sh. Tantawi's fatwa last week is proof enough that not every ruling by a scholar is worthy of being followed. This isn't a shooting-down response, its a disagreement response. |
| NS |
| 01/06/04 at 07:14:21 |
| MIT |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| WhiteSomali |
| 01/07/04 at 00:24:08 |
| [slm] [QUOTE] And my brother Ahmad, Sh. Tantawi's fatwa last week is proof enough that not every ruling by a scholar is worthy of being followed. [/QUOTE] It's true that not every ruling by a scholar is worthy of being followed, but that doesn't mean all scholars who have a different opinion from one's favourite Sheikh should just be dismissed, especially considering the fact that they're Sheikhs and we're not. There's a reason Sheikhs and Muftis are allowed to make fatwas, it's because they know alot more than we do. :) [slm] |
| Re: Habby New Year |
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| MIT |
| 01/07/04 at 04:57:42 |
| as-salaamu alaikum Yep, i agree with you Ahmad. But sometimes i worry about a kind of political correctness creeping into Muslims which tantamounts to us proclaiming 'every opinion is correct (just as long as there is some scholar somewhere in the world who said so).' I disagree with that. There are many issues where the Quranic and Hadith texts allow for disagreement, but there are other issues where a scholar issues a ruling which is quite obviously wrong, an example of which is, a famous and well-respected scholar who some years ago ruled that neither men OR women are allowed to wear gold. Scholars are not infallible like the Prophets and thus, are bound to make mistakes; and pointing out a particular mistake of a scholar does not amount to criticism (although it should be done with the level of respect that a scholar deserves). |
| NS |
| Re: Habby New Year |
|---|
| eleanor |
| 01/07/04 at 08:55:57 |
| [quote author=BroHanif link=board=bebzi;num=1072936555;start=10#14 date=01/03/04 at 21:19:10] Hey have a great 365 days to ALL MEMBERS on the board. Be they the best years of your life and may they be prosperous. [/quote] same to you and yours bro. [quote]C'mon people lets all think to why we are here, some of the posts on this board make me think whether I should even stay here or not. I find some of the posts very naive, allow me to say this but I'm 30 years old and I really don't have much time for childish behaviour. [/quote] [img]http://www.my-smileys.de/lach.gif[/img] [quote]Can everyone grow up and treat each other with some respect and honour? Jeez at times I feel like why even bother but something in me keeps telling me that the world is not full of bigots and mindless morons who have one thinking, but its full of people who are creative, articulate and have some reasonable intellect and who differ. Forgive me for saying this but sometimes this place is like cancer, a lot of the people become morbid, the laughter has ceased. Why? because its down to each and every board member. Yes that's right you and me. We either make it or break it. ......... As Jannah has giving the example above its sadly true, when was the last time there was a post that gave hope to others? When was a post that filled you with joy? When was there a post that filled you with tears of laughter and had you rolling on the floor? When was a post that made you think heck the sis is right and hey I better pull my socks up if I want to succeed? [/quote] [img]http://www.my-smileys.de/respekt_2.gif[/img] Well said Bro. *stands up and applauds* |
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