Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board

A R C H I V E S

Hypothetical Scenarios

Madina Archives


Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board

Hypothetical Scenarios
Anonymous
01/08/04 at 07:41:52
[slm]

A hypothetical scenario .Want to hear both the sisters and brothers opinions

A scenario : The marriage is going well they are enjoying each others company growing in
deen Alhamdullilah the chores are split the sister goes to the Halaqa, the brother works
cooks does the dishes and oh yeah does the hateful :P laundry(Mind you not washing it in
public ;) )
One day the brother says

1) My dear wife I have donated Half my salary this month to the hungry in Kosovo the rest
is enough for food and the bills but travel seems to be a problem can we give the car a
rest except during emeregencies .I will take the bus to and from work,Can you take a bus(I
know it takes three)  during the DAY (in the evenings you sure can take the car to go to
your halaqa .Poor wife has not been used to a bus though a lot of people use it in the
city

2) My dear wife Alhamdullilah you are attending Halaqas and growing in Deen Mashallah ,I
feel lagging, this bro was talking about a movement called tabligh in our masjid , just
for curiosity sake and with the hope it will increase my Imaan can I go out for just THREE
days with these folk.Btw the city is a safe place there is food and movie at home (the
Kosovo donation was last year :P) and the sister has  been to many two week  retreats and
meetings on her won in the past.

3) My dear wife I haven’t seen my parents in ages and since you don’t like them too much
I respect your wishes can I take my kids along with me to visit them

4) Oh boy I am tired of take outs and burnt the rice every night. I miss your company and
your cooking .Could you please for my sake miss the Halaqa tonight and cook some thing
nice lets have a romantic dinner together. Oh I promise to do the dishes

[wlm]
Re: Advice to Husbands, From a Husband
jannah
01/08/04 at 09:12:16
wlm,

hmm why do i feel this poster is familiar ;)

scenario #1:  i think transportation is really important.. u can't do all the things u want to or go where u need to without a car and taking 3 buses makes people not attend halaqas bc it's very difficult(ya know what i mean ;0) why sacrifice something which will not let u attain any of ur goals and make life very difficult for at a base level.. but i think what ur getting at is: would a wife be ok with giving up some creature comforts in order to donate/help the muslim ummah.  and that question i think depends on the specific thing, the situation and her own islamic values [btw i took buses my whole life and worked hard to get a car and stuff so i could do more with my life, so to sacrifice that and go back to buses doesn't make sense to me personally]

scenario #2: i think it's important for both the husband and wife to independently work on their deen. sometimes it's hard to work it out so ur doing everything together and are at the same level. i don't think any wife would mind 3 days. the real question u should have asked was, what about 40 days... what about 6 months... those are tougher scenarios

scenario #3: i don't think any mother would let her kids go somewhere far or for a long time without her, especially maybe in hostile territory. so some type of compromise that works for both people needs to be worked out

scenario #4: very cute.. who would say no to that.. but is that like a one time thing or an all the time occurence? why on this specific night and time? maybe he really doesn't want her to go to halaqas.. or resents it, maybe doesn't want his wife to be islamically active and wants her to concentrate on the home.... again what comes up is what are the priorities and values here.

ok and secondly i just can't believe the premise of ur scenarios.. it would take a very liberated guy to share in cooking, cleaning, laundry and washing dishes, and then encourage his wife islamically!!
01/08/04 at 09:13:41
jannah
Re: Advice to Husbands, From a Husband
MIT
01/08/04 at 09:23:17
as-salaamu alaikum

What a disaster this husband is.

Am i the only brother who thinks that the constant repetition of "a brother who helps with the cooking and cleaning, and washing is a good brother" is a bit influenced by the political correctness sweeping the West?

And it brings me to a question. Do you think there is a conflict between a husband maintaining his position as the head of the household and "commanding" the respect that that deserves, with the need to be kind to his family.

Now i'm not against brothers helping out at home out of kindness and courtesy, but as a brother i don't know how the husband in the four hypothetical scenarios could command respect. "May i do this please? ... May i do that please, pretty, pretty, please...?"

What a disaster.
NS
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
Nabila
01/08/04 at 19:13:01
[slm]

With the uppity feminists around nowadays, a 'command' for anything is more likely to get thrown back in the guy's face with a curt notice that she's giving him extra chores for the evening for being so presumptuous.  ;D

Seriously though, I dont see why respect and kindness cant go together. I personally can't see any conflict, but rather I feel that someone who demands respect but doesn't want to give anything back in return is probably going to be resented or feared rather than respected.

ma asalaamah and take care
01/08/04 at 19:16:46
Nabila
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
ltcorpest2
01/08/04 at 19:40:16
FROM jANNAH
ok and secondly i just can't believe the premise of ur scenarios.. it would take a very liberated guy to share in cooking, cleaning, laundry and washing dishes, and then encourage his wife islamically!!  


I do not consider myself as a liberated guy, but I do my own laundry (always have), and I love to cook (if you like beef i am a really good cook) and i can put dishes in the dishwasher.  Not the best (to put it mildly) at cleaning around the house though.
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
Tesseract
01/09/04 at 17:03:18
Assalamu 'Alaikum,

         [quote]One day the brother says  

1) My dear wife I have donated Half my salary this month to the hungry in Kosovo the rest  
is enough for food and the bills but travel seems to be a problem can we give the car a  
rest except during emeregencies .I will take the bus to and from work,Can you take a bus(I  
know it takes three)  during the DAY (in the evenings you sure can take the car to go to  
your halaqa .Poor wife has not been used to a bus though a lot of people use it in the  
city [/quote]

         In this situation, husband is not a good decision maker in my opinion. He gave away half of his salary to hungry in Kosovo without thinking of the consequences that can affect his family. Even if he thought of the consequences, he should have consulted his wife *before* donating half the salary. Wife is dependent on him, and Islamically, its an obligation on him to take good care of his wife. So, its a bit of stupidity to me that he donated first, and then came to wife expecting she would co-operate in saving money by switching to public transportation, specially when he knows she is not used to it. You are simply burdening her, which is not correct in my opinion. Allahu Ta'ala A'lam.

[quote]2) My dear wife Alhamdullilah you are attending Halaqas and growing in Deen Mashallah ,I  
feel lagging, this bro was talking about a movement called tabligh in our masjid , just  
for curiosity sake and with the hope it will increase my Imaan can I go out for just THREE  
days with these folk.Btw the city is a safe place there is food and movie at home (the  
Kosovo donation was last year ) and the sister has  been to many two week  retreats and  
meetings on her won in the past. [/quote]

         I don't see anything wrong here. He is consulting her, and has made arrangements for food and other necessities while he'll be away on retreat, so that all seems fine. Allahu A'lam.

[quote]3) My dear wife I haven’t seen my parents in ages and since you don’t like them too much  
I respect your wishes can I take my kids along with me to visit them[/quote]

           She dislikes them this much that she doesn't even want to see/visit them? Hmmmm.......something is seriously wrong here :). He needs to work on this. About the kids, I don't see any point in *asking* if he can take the kids with him. Husband should make it clear and wife should understand she can't stop kids from seeing their grandparents. Allahu A'lam.

[quote]4) Oh boy I am tired of take outs and burnt the rice every night. I miss your company and  
your cooking .Could you please for my sake miss the Halaqa tonight and cook some thing  
nice lets have a romantic dinner together. Oh I promise to do the dishes [/quote]

         Burnt the rice every night?  Not a good learner  :P Tell him to use the rice cooker  :) That's all I can say. I see a lot of imbalance in their life, so I'll refrain from commenting on this last one.

Wassalam.
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
theOriginal
01/16/04 at 13:22:13
[slm]

My answer to every one of these is:

Sure...can I go skydiving?

But no really.  Poor guy.  I feel sorry for him.  I wouldn't let anyone else touch the laundry, because I'm a bit obsessive compulsive, but even if he wasn't doing laundry and was doing everything else, and I was JUST going to halaqas (talk about the girl having a strikingly multi-faceted personality), I would ask why he has not yet felt the need to go see a marriage counselor (mind you, I don't mind lazing around...but perfection (male, at that) has limits).

So yeah, he can defnitely do 1,2, and 4.  #3 I'm not too sure of...since there's something suspicious about him not letting me meet his family (which I don't like), plus I can't let my kids go without me...if I hate his family, they must hate it too (happens with kids)...so either you take me (I promise I'll behave), OR you can let me go to my parents' house for the same amount of time...and the kids can pick teams ;)

Wasalaam.

(okayyyy...i'm getting off the net...I'll take my pills, I promise)
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
M.F.
01/23/04 at 06:31:54
Poor guy, says everyone.  But except for 1, every other scenario sounds more like something the wife would say, not the husband, ok the Tabligh would be like a three day retreat and the rice might not be burnt but it's still table for one. Would anyone say, poor wife?  No, if it were reversed it would just be normal.  
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
tahirah
02/23/04 at 12:58:43
[slm]
very interesting scenarios i must say.
now as for number one: since this is hypothetical, i would have to say, go bother  ;-)! what reliance on Allah the brother must have to donate that money for the sake of Allah! it just reminds me of all those ahadeeth where the sahaba would donate whatever they had for the deen, knowing that Allah would provide for them.  a few bus trips during the day is not a big saccrifice for the what was sent forward to the akirah.  (hmmmm, what would the bro. say if the wife wrote a check from the joint account and asked the same thing?)
ma'a salaama
tahirah
Hypothetical Answers to Hypothetical Qstns
tahirah
02/23/04 at 14:44:36
[slm]
ok so i've got to work on those typos.....
now for number two: (no offense to anyone out there) but I would be a little hesitant about him going on a trip with Tablighis...especially if he is just hearing about this group.  I know someone who travels with them but doesn't believe in all of their practices, but al hamdulillah he is relatively knowledgable enough to distinguish sunnah from bid'ah.  It is not the amount of time that bothers me, just the random "jumping on bandwagons" without any sufficient knowledge.  there are other ways to increase iman...like a good new york summer retreat  ;).  And you know what they say, absence makes the heart grow fonder.

number three: a few questions, and a few problems....why don't I like his parents, and how long does he plan to visit? and "can I take MY kids" - what's up with that!  I think "our kids" is a more appropriate approach.  And I've dealt with enough people to know how to "grin and bear it" for whatever duration of time the visit is scheduled for.  But if he really wants to visit his parents alone/with the kids for a relatively short period of time, why not - as long as they are not influenced in a negative way, hurting their deen.

number four: HA! he's asking me to solve the burnt food problem?!? I thought I was the cause!  :D......not to be whiny but he had to choose a halaqa night (Im sure we don't have one every day ::))   but hey, what husband asks for "quality time."  (actually this one isn't either, he just wants quality food.  the "romantic dinner thing is just a trap ;))  Perhaps my condition would be that he would give me a short halaqa so that i would still be learnig something that day.

******now of course, these are the dream answers right? (imagine a sleeping smiley) so don't bash me for my inexperience and my lack of knowledge about the world of marriage and children... :).....'cause in reality, is even going to happen? a brother working, doing half of the chores, cooking and trying to clean in his wife's seemingly common absence, and then lovingly gliding accross the floor (insert romantic background sounds) to delicately ask his darling wife for such SMALL favors........yeah, right!  but maa' sha Allah for the dream bro. hehehe

ma'a salaama
tahirah  
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
se7en
02/23/04 at 16:23:19
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

I hate to say this but honestly, I think if husbands phrased things in such sweet and loving ways that a lot of women would be ermm.. suckered into doing whatever their husbands want :P

it seems to me that women tend to do that.. be very responsive and generous to the wants and needs of their spouse.. but what ends up happening is, they do this sacrificing their own happiness at times.. and it builds resentment that leads to a lot of ill-feeling and difficulties later on.

so.. be careful :)

wasalaam
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
Nomi
02/24/04 at 02:19:47
slm,

[quote]
I know someone who travels with them but doesn't believe in all of their practices, but al hamdulillah he is relatively knowledgable enough to distinguish sunnah from bid'ah.
[/quote]

Sis tahirah, I would like to be enligthened about this bit.

Oh and welcome to the board :)

ppl, why do i feel that i'm a bidatee and since all bid'ahs are in fire so maybe thats where i'm gonna end up!

May Allah protect us all, amin (if someone thinks 'amin' is bid'ah then please make it 'ameen' otherwise i'll burn in hellfire worse!)


And plz make dua for me ppl, i dont wanna burn. Hey i know, 5 of my 'first' cousins who i love so much are salafi, how about i change my school of thought? erm... but then many salafis too are with TJ... grrr... only way out seems to be a retreat in NYC!

wlm,

- Universal Bidatee
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
timbuktu
02/24/04 at 02:53:02
[slm][quote author=se7en link=board=bro;num=1073573220;start=10#10
date=02/23/04 at 16:23:19].............it seems to me that women tend to do that.. be very responsive and generous to the wants and needs of their spouse.. but what ends up happening is, they do this sacrificing their own happiness at times.. and it builds resentment that leads to a lot of ill-feeling and difficulties later on.

so.. be careful :)
wasalaam[/quote]

amazing, where did you learn all this?

it took me 24 years of marriage to realise it. I must be real thick, or just not good at understanding people :) but in my bachelor days i was considered the opposite.
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
se7en
02/24/04 at 16:27:17
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

hehe.. I've learned a lot now that I've been married for hmm.. a negative five months :P  (the wedding is in the summer, insha'Allah).

I don't think you're dense br. timbuktu :) women and men are really just built differently.  you know, nonMuslims tend to have more experience interacting with the opposite gender, due to relationships before marriage, and even very close and intimate friendships with the opposite sex that really help them understand their feelings/disposition/attitude etc.. but for Muslim folks, we are usually going into marriage kinda clueless :)  

this is a really sweeping generalization, but I think that women just generally have a softness, a desire to nurture and make others happy, a generosity at the core, that Allah has instilled in us (that is most likely related to being a mother..)and it is a type of vulnerability that is easy to exploit.  And I think that's why there are so many exhortations in the Quran and in the Sunnah for men to honor the rights of their wives, to be just and fair, to treat them with ihsaan, etc.

that's my theory :)  I don't know, what do you all think?


wasalaamu alaykum
02/24/04 at 16:30:51
se7en
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
tahirah
02/25/04 at 03:20:11
[slm]

jazakallahu khair brother for the warm welcome :)
************************
bro nomi: ppl, why do i feel that i'm a bidatee and since all bid'ahs are in fire so maybe thats where i'm gonna end up!

May Allah protect us all, amin (if someone thinks 'amin' is bid'ah then please make it 'ameen' otherwise i'll burn in hellfire worse!)
************************
now that is why I made the disclaimer about offending anyone, but I guess it happens anyway.  I wouldn't say that everyone who travels with the TJ are ppl of bid'ah, but to my knowlege there are things they do or insist on that are not necessarily from the sunnah (ex: number of days, etc).  But in actuality, I have often heard that they follow MORE of the sunnah than most ppl.  What would concern me is someone new to Islam, or not very knowledgeable joining their group (or any da'awa group) without understanding basics about sunnah and bid'ah and usool al fiqh.  Since I am on the subject, I do have one complaint: why is it that the TJ brothers never use the microphone!?!?! women need to learn too! and not all of us are lucky enough to have husbands who can come home and relate new information word for word.  Being ignored in the learning circle is the ultimate diss.

as for the amin/ameen - perhaps you should extend the du'a for those of us who are communicating in English and not arabic  :)


****************************
sis 7: I hate to say this but honestly, I think if husbands phrased things in such sweet and loving ways that a lot of women would be ermm.. suckered into doing whatever their husbands want  
****************************
hmmmmm, I think if I suspected he was talking like that just for me to do something, I would not want to do it....it just seems patronizing.  But I do agree with your theory (the unsuspecting Muslim theory).  Perhaps some of you would be interested in: men are 4m mars, women are 4m venus.  It is written by a non-Muslim, but it has some basics that many Muslims don't cover in their lectures.  Even for non-married Muslims, just compare you parents to what is covered in the book, you'll learn a lot.


ma'a salaama
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
Nomi
02/25/04 at 03:33:28
[wlm]

[quote author=tahirah link=board=bro;num=1073573220;start=10#14 date=02/25/04 at 03:20:11]

I do have one complaint: why is it that the TJ brothers never use the microphone!?!?! women need to learn too! and not all of us are lucky enough to have husbands who can come home and relate new information word for word.  Being ignored in the learning circle is the ultimate diss.
[/quote]

Respected sis it seems you need to do alot of homework :) ...

And its a banned topic, so lets not go there right now... i would recommend you a three day retreat with [s]Mr T[/s] TJ ppl, that'll be possible with a mehram accompanying you inshaAllah. You just can't get to know the taste of some fruit without actually trying it!!! (wow what a desi line)


Time for lunch..... "paratha" with chicken kaboobs ... mouth watering, yeah?
[slm]
Your brother.

ps: Have you by any chance watched that TV series "The A Team"

pps: now dont ask me to give translation of paratha.... a paratha is a paratha is a paratha!
02/25/04 at 03:35:56
Nomi
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
tahirah
02/25/04 at 04:14:32
[slm]
uh oh :( I seem to be falling deeper in the offense hole.
Sorry just venting about local TJ brothers.
I'll try to end this on a quick positive note. May Allah Ta'ala Forgive our shortcomings (including me ;)) and Grant us all Shifa'   :)

p.s. yummmm parathas, my favorite bread after Gurss  

Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
Nomi
02/25/04 at 09:33:23
[slm]

I was thin-king, that i should go by the rulez. So i thought i better give you ppl a translation of paratha, i mean for those who dont have a clue about that thing!

[center]
[img]
http://www.madurai.com/recipe/parata.jpg[/img]

[/center]


So, thats what i had for lunch today. Habby?

[slm]

ps: You Desis, ABCDs, are not gonna believe this. I searched for "paratha" on google images and it gave me Inzamam-ul-Haq's pic on 6th page :P
02/25/04 at 09:35:13
Nomi
Re: Hypothetical Scenarios
Caraj
03/01/04 at 18:29:08
Opinions:

1)If this were me I'd say. What is done is done and I admire your wanting to help others but if you ever do this agin without asking my opinion first, you'll be eatting in Kosovo next month. Couldn't we have donated smaller amounts over a period of time, I am much safer in our own car than on a bus.

2) Just 3 days??? Take 6   ;)
Naw, actually I personally would have no problem with this however I am a protective sort of lady so I'd ask him to get to know the folks before he went.
By the way what does tabligh mean?

3) I would reply, Yes of course and by the way may I come with you also. I may not get along with them but for your benefit and the benefit of the children lets all go as a family.  (I would actually have no problems with this unless his parents were a bad example, but would have to be a very bad one. I would alternate, every other time go and every other time let them go alone. ahhhhhhhhh the house to myself   :) mmmmmmm bubblebath and quiet time.
And no matter if you like them or not they are still the grandparents and should get to visit regardless if you get along or not.

4)yes   yes   yes   yes   yes, what ya want for dinner darlin'?

So there are my answers, input or whatever you want to call it.
03/01/04 at 18:30:06
Caraj


Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
A R C H I V E S

Individual posts do not necessarily reflect the views of Jannah.org, Islam, or all Muslims. All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the poster and may not be used without consent of the author.
The rest © Jannah.Org