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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| How does one respond to........ |
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| Caraj |
| 01/19/04 at 04:29:44 |
| During my time here on the board some of you may of read my post asking advice on how to respond to someones comments when talking to a Christian about Islam. I have had comversations with my Mom over the last year. I didn't know how to respond to something she said and was wondering if a bro or sis was talking to a Christian about Islam how you would respond. I was telling my mom more about what I learned about Islam and how Islam seems to be calling out to me. I told her of the truiths I had learned asfter hearing many misconceptions. When I told her I felt Muslims and Christians had the same God cause there was ONLY ONE GOD anyway, the one difference was Christians see Jesus as the son of God and also God in a different form (the trinity 3 in 1 thing) and Muslims see him as a prophet. I told her there was so many things Muslims believed that no one ever talks about. Like the virgin birth, his coming back, and more. My mom responded NO THEY don't believe in the same God cause you can't believe in God without believing Jesus is his son. Now I know this is a the usual disagreement between Christians and Muslims. But can we discuss this please? Thank you in advance for your insight and ideas and input. Abu_Hamza, after talking about the Loving for Allah's sake, I really like the way you explain things, can you also jump in here on this subject. Thank you. |
| 01/19/04 at 04:30:52 |
| Caraj |
| Re: How does one respond to........ |
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| Nomi |
| 01/19/04 at 04:54:00 |
| Let me ask Allah for forgiveness b4 answering coz whatever wrong be there in my words is indeed my mistake and all good is from Him the Almighty. [quote] My mom responded NO THEY don't believe in the same God cause you can't believe in God without believing Jesus is his son. [/quote] May be they say this coz they think Jesus [peace be upon him] makes God complete (Allah forbid). Otherwise if God is one stand alone entity (which He is) then this sounds too opinionated of someone if they make such comment when the other person (Muslim) is saying that we believe in God of christians. Like why would we want to call God of christians "our God". And if they believe that Jesus [peace be upon him] completes some god then this in itself is their admitting the fact that their god is incomplete!! God is supreme, God is Almighty. He doesn't lack anything, coz if Jesus [peace be upon him] completes some god then that god was not complete before birth of Jesus [pbuh] right? And considering God incomplete at some stage in time gives me shivers as my God never was incomplete! |
| Re: How does one respond to........ |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 01/19/04 at 09:55:00 |
| [slm] My usual response to that is that I can just look around and know that God is God. I mean just look around. but there is nothing to show that somebody else is God too, it could only be an idea tha someone has chosen to beleive that Jesus is God, but belief in God itslef is a matter of clear perception of reality. I realize this is taking on the same tone and handing it back but how can anyone not be lying when they say they "KNOW" Jesus is God? But children are tought in christain churches that you cannot be a christian if you just believe in God, in order to be a christian you have to accept and beleive a lot of other stuff too otherwize you are being bad bad bad. Well, thats my take on this, Salam, Al-ajnabia :-) |
| Re: How does one respond to........ |
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| Stephanie |
| 01/20/04 at 01:01:04 |
| [slm] Uh.. Jews don't believe that Jesus (pbuh) is the son of God, but yet no one questions the fact that they worship the same God. Hence, the Old Testament. [wlm] :-) |
| 01/20/04 at 01:50:05 |
| Stephanie |
| Re: How does one respond to........ |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 01/20/04 at 01:53:11 |
| [slm] Azizah, I'm afraid your mom is right! Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God. When Christians hold worships and congregations, when they pray, they have a picture of God in their minds. That picture, most often, is of a white man with long hair and blue eyes. That picture is of Jesus (as they have seen him in the paintings, in movies, etc). Whenever Christians say the word "God," it means "Jesus." These two words are synonymous. However, when they want to refer to the One who is the God of Muslims, they say "Father." Isn't that true? You see, Christians believe in the Trinity, but the part of Trinity that they hold most dearly is Jesus. In that sense, Jesus is the God that they relate to the most, and that makes sense because that's the basis of their whole creed. He died for their sins, because he loved them. How would you not hold him dearly then? So your mom is right when she says that the God of the Muslims is not the same as ours. Because Muslims don't regard Jesus as God. They don't give anyone a share in the Godhood of the Holy Father. Because He is too Glorious and Pure to need partners, sons or ... anything really. He is God, the Self-Sufficient, the Self-Sustaining. The One. The Only. The Unique. The Absolute. He loves Jesus, and hates those who hate Jesus. But He's not Jesus, and Jesus is not Him. I think your mom does need to understand one thing though, which she may already do but I'm not sure. That is: Muslims love Jesus, and revere him greatly. They give him as much respect that any human can possibly be given. It's an article of Faith in Islam to revere Jesus and believe in his Message and Prophethood. Without it, we are not Muslim, and are doomed for eternity in Hell. But with all that love and reverence, we still cannot give a position to Jesus that he did not have. He was a man, not God. He was a Sign of God, His Prophet, His Messenger, and His Emissary on this Earth. But He does not share God in His Godhood. Nobody does, nor is it befitting the Lord. Therefore, my sister, I hope your mother would understand that the fact that Muslims do not believe in Jesus to be God does not mean that they hate him or have a bad opinion of him. Nor does it mean that they believe in a completely different God altogether, because we don't. We believe in the God who the Christians call "God the Father." But our God is not triune like the Christian God. Hope this helps. And Allah (swt) knows best. P.S. Muslims do share a lot of the *attributes* and *qualities* of God that the Christians believe in. For example, both of us believe God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Loving, Merciful, Just, etc. We both believe that He is in full control of everything that happens in the Universe, that He will resurrect us all on the Last Day. In that sense, God has the same characteristics in both the Christian and Muslim faiths. The only difference - and a big difference indeed - is the aspect of Trinity vs. Unity, as I discussed earlier. Abu Hamza |
| 01/20/04 at 02:01:28 |
| Abu_Hamza |
| Re: How does one respond to........ |
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| Caraj |
| 01/20/04 at 05:28:02 |
Ok between this [quote author=shareislam link=board=madrasa;num=1074504585;start=0#3 date=01/20/04 at 01:01:04] [slm] Uh.. Jews don't believe that Jesus (pbuh) is the son of God, but yet no one questions the fact that they worship the same God. Hence, the Old Testament. [wlm] :-)[/quote] And what Abu_Hamza replied I have more question. I'm going to wait an extra day to pack the pc up as I really want to explore, study and understand this subject and not just leave my thoughts and questions hanging. But it is almost 2 am here for me and time to sleep. I'll post more tomorrow. Food for thought for responders: There is ONLY ONE GOD and as shareislam posted the jews do not believe in Jesus as a son of God or Savior and Christians do not consider them as believing in another god. I was wondering, not to give a bad example but to explian how my train of thoughts. OK you have a horse and there are 3 people. They all agree it is a horse, but one swears it talks, another swears it has a baby yet the other two have not seen it. There is only the HORSE, yet one believes it can talk and 2 don;t as they have not heard it. One believes it has a baby yet the other 2 do not as they have not seen it. But there is just the horse. 1)Jews Believe in One God but not Jesus as son of God and that he made everything and he is merciful and the creator. 2)Christians believe in One God and Jesus as his son and part or another form of God. They too believe God made everything and that he is merciful and the creator. 3) Muslims believe in One God called Allah in Arabic and that he made everything and is the creator, he is merciful and the creator yet has no son. All above believe in ONE GOD, creator, merciful, yet have added or subtracted issues. Thus they all have the same God There are 4 children born of the same mother and father. As they grow up Child #1 thinks dad is a mean person Child #2 thinks mom is a mean person Child #3 thinks both parents are nice Child #4 thinks all his siblings are crazy and that both parents are mean All have the same parents, all look at the same 2 people differently Make sense? It's 2;30 am I'm going to get some sleep before my brian fries. My hubby says I think to much and I anyalize to much (yes Nomi I know I spelled that wrong but it's past 2 am :P ) I bet you all agree with him huh? Good night talk to you all about this in the morning. Well, later in the morning :) |
| Re: How does one respond to........ |
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| bhaloo |
| 01/20/04 at 05:30:33 |
| [slm] God is All-Mighty...Jesus was not 'I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me' (John 5:30) God is All-Knowing...Jesus was not Speaking of the last day Jesus said: 'But of that day or that hour knows no man, neither the angels, nor the son, but only the father' (Mark 13:32) God has no Beginning...Jesus was born ...'She brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus' (Matt. 1:25) God doesn't have a God...Jesus did Jesus said: 'And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.' (John 17:3) God doesn't pray to anyone...Jesus did 'And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face (sujud) and paryed.' (Matt.26:39) God is immortal...But not Jesus Jesus was supposedly crucified according to the Christians. God died!!! The whole world will utterly collapse if that happens!!! Jesus never said 'I am God, worship me.' People areound him said he is a Prophet "And the multitude said, this is Jesus, the Prophet of Nazareth of Galilee (Matt. 21:11) Luke 24:19 John 6:14 John 7:40 Jesus lived as a Muslim Submitted to the will of Allah - Luke 22:42, John 5:30 Fasted forty days and forty nights - Matt 4:2 He prayed on his forehead to One God - (Matt 26:39) He greeted his disciples eith the greeting of peace be unto you (as-salaamu alaikum) Luke 24:36 John 20:10 John 20:21 John 20:26 |
| Re: How does one respond to........ |
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| Halima |
| 01/20/04 at 07:10:44 |
| [slm] I wish Sis, Azizah could get hold of Ahmed Deedat's books. They are indeed the best for someone who would like to understand Islam. Maybe Sis Shahida can suggest some titles and someone in North America can tell her where to buy. [wlm] Halima |
| Re: How does one respond to........ |
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| Caraj |
| 01/20/04 at 17:11:45 |
| Halima, I have web sites where you can order his books and also read them on the pc, thank you. Bhaloo, I have something to tell you that will gross you out :P If you were a sister, I'd hug you :D Thank you for the scripture verses, may I have everyones permission to print out this thread and share it and discuss it with my mother over dinner? We are meeting tomorrow night. Abu_Hamza and shareislam and Nomi and al-ajnabia, thank you all also. Wow, this is really cool and I really wanted to discuss, research and come to an understanding that I could believe and feel at peace with. And we all didn't even argue ;D No one got offended There were over 2 posts OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH JANNAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ;D ;) |
| Re: How does one respond to........ |
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| Stephanie |
| 01/20/04 at 19:16:45 |
| [slm] Permission granted. By the way thanks Bhaloo. I've been looking for a summary of those scriptures that support Islam. Pretty cool! sister in Islam :-) |
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