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| hadith on fistulas |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 02/06/04 at 12:32:14 |
| [slm] Has anyone ever heard of a hadith on women with fistulas and salat? I know that there are hadith for women with ever flowing blood but waht about flows of other fluids? Wudu has to be performed even after passing gass so how can a woman who has a trickling leak be purified? I've been told that it is innovation to perform salat anyway. They say that the perfection of a muslim is in minding their own busniness but since nobody but Allah is perfect how should a woman with a mild but noticably foul odor who doesnt pray and sometimes cant stand it and wears perfum be dealt with? Since she cant make friends (the smell) and no one speaks up for her and she in preson cant keep an audience long enough to speak for herself what should she do? I typed "fistula" into a hadith search and came up with nothing. Was it impossilbe for women with fistulas even to aproach the prophet? [wlm] :-) |
| 02/07/04 at 14:45:49 |
| al-ajnabia |
| Re: hadith on fistulas |
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| Maliha |
| 02/06/04 at 15:53:32 |
| [slm] sis ajnabia, I would ask someone knowledgable in your area Inshaallah. But why wouldn't someone pray because of any condition? I mean, we are given the directions to pray even when we are bed ridden, I am sure smell, if it's something that can't be controlled, wouldn't be a reason *not* to pray? Allahu A'alim. Sis in Struggle, :-) [wlm] |
| Re: hadith on fistulas |
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| Sima |
| 02/06/04 at 16:57:06 |
| As-salamu Alaikum Im not sure about ur question. Have u had an ostomy? |
| Re: hadith on fistulas |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 02/06/04 at 17:58:59 |
| [slm] Because my condition came on with the birth of my first child in 1980 I havent been taught by any of my muslim family members how to pray, and when I asked the woman who nursed me about it why I hadnt been taught she said that the practice of salat requires washing after urinating and because I never can be sure if i am presently leaking I can never know and to say that this didnt matter would be to innovate and our family is very strong about not doing that whenever we can possibly avoid it. I mean, we all have some pretty terrible stories and the best practice of islam we can possibly have is all we have of our own sometimes. Because of the pressure in my community and the bad things people were saying about me, I went bugged my folks until they let me learn to pray, but most of the time I didnt feel right, sometimes after taking a full bath and washing really well I could do about two rakat that seemd to count, but even then I felt that I was somehow doing soemthing wrong but I couldnt figure it out. Also I cant take five baths a day. I dont even have a bath tub available and only a shower now so I dont even get it all clean all the time. And its worse when I have one of my infections. Ten years ago there was an african american gynecologist who knew how to fix it and offered to do it for free for me, she said that was the main reason why she became a gynacolagist, but we couldnt keep it a secret and the bad people gave me electro convulsive shock until i forgot and I never showed up for the apointment, when her office called to find out what happened I no longer knew what they were talking about. I only remembered this this morning, I remembered my fistula last week and tested and sure enough I have one. I just thought it was something else and I wasnt sure why I hadnt been tought to pray. But I can now see very clearly that it was 1980 when people started to treat me like they did not like to be around me. The whole time after 1980 I have never been to a doctor who was not either an employer of my "mom" who had all kinds of bad things done to me, or an associate of that employer, or I have been to welfare doctors who didnt even care to tell me. there have been two exceptions, the gynecolegest in tennessee, and the psyciatrist who realized that my memory loss was due to electric shock, and my smell was due to a fistula. there have been people who didnt mind my smell, it isnt that strong, but it is pervasive and everyone always notices it. I have heard that the indians used to know how to fix them and also the beduin used to know how to fix them. Women would be driven to the edge of settlements and the beduin found that it was a good way to get a relly good woman for nothing, with nothing wrong with her. So one day these women would jsut dissapear from their huts and go on with life with the beduin. I,m not talking about the kiind of thing that requires me to cary a bucket with me, but it is life altering. most homless women have fistulas and I have been homeless and it has also been very difficult to get jobs. I worked a while in a nursing home because my smell was just considered part of working there, and I sometimes get jobs at other smelly places. Sometimes I think this may be why I am harrassed every where i try to live. I know ther eis a hadeth about blood, but blood and urine are too different to be treated the same. They are very far from imterchangable. Well enough about my funk, [wlm] :-) PS A fistula is a hole in the bladder alowing urine to leak into the vagina. It is standard issue for all women who gave vaginal birth when they were twelve. Some are very large causing constant incontange, some like mine are small, causeing random leaks of usually about 8-10 drops about 10-15 times a day, enough to evaporate so that im not always damp but often damp and always smelly. |
| 02/06/04 at 18:03:20 |
| al-ajnabia |
| Re: hadith on fistulas |
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| Maliha |
| 02/06/04 at 19:53:09 |
| [slm] i am really dumb...so i apologize in advance for the following... You live in the states, and it is 2004 why don't you seek redress to all that happened to you? Reading your posts, its weird. Something is not right. Like you talk with a very deflated, resigned tone, when outrage is in order. I don't understand your story, but from the fragments you have said, it seems like you need a lot of help. There are many non profit organizations that help people. I don't really know what to say, I wish I could do something concrete to help you... May Allah give you strength (Amin). PS: Below is a Fatwa I extracted from Islam Q and A...I don't like Fatwa copying/pasting, but I thought it might help you. [quote] Question : I have a slight enlargement of prostate gland. Sometime after passing urine, and waiting for long, few drops of urine comes out when you get up. With that, I feel awkward to go for Salaah. I don't have any provision for taking bath or changing cloth. So miss many Salaah in a day. Is there any way by which, I can continue my prayer, without doing Qaza. Answer : Praise be to Allaah. If you pass urine or drops of urine, this does not mean that you have to do ghusl; what you have to do is make wudoo’ and wash only the parts of the body and clothing (on which the urine has fallen). If the situation you describe, the occasional emission of a few drops of urine, is beyond your control, then your case is like that of one who is incontinent, so do the following: 1. Wash the private parts with water. 2. Wash the part of your clothes that the urine has gotten onto (there is no need to change your clothes). 3. Put a pad or a piece of cotton, or something similar, over the private parts so that the urine will not spread. 4. Do wudoo’ for each prayer, then pray as you are, and pray as much as you like, fard and naafil, with this wudoo’. After doing this, anything else that comes out does not matter. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “So keep your duty to Allaah and fear Him as much as you can…” [al-Taghaabun 64:16]. Do not miss any prayers or delay doing them on time, and your prayer will be valid. This is what should be done in the case of incontinence, but if the urine comes out shortly after urinating, then it stops, in this case you can go to the bathroom fifteen minutes before the prayer or the adhaan, for example, then put something (a cloth, etc) to prevent contamination after you do istinjaa’ (cleaning yourself after relieving yourself), do wudoo’ and pray. And Allaah knows best. Islam Q&A Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com) [/quote] sigh...no matter what, keep praying sis, its our rope to Allah in this fleeting dunya. Take care of yourself. sis in struggle, [wlm] |
| Re: hadith on fistulas |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 02/06/04 at 20:56:36 |
| [slm] When I express the outrage that this situation calls for it becomes too easy for those who put me in this situation to get a commit warrant (ie, involuntary hospitalization for a minimum of three days for being a danger to myself and others). My feeling, my manner, is the cold calculation of a warrior fighting a solitary battle. I know that the issuse I am raising are difficult and even suspicious and that it is the most important thing I can do to express them as completly an coherantly as possible. the concise rendition of these storeis would look more like "%^^ % $$!!@!" but how would that get anything done? I have fought and fought and fought to get where I am. The first time I tried college I couldnt fight all this effectively and ended up in worse shape and it was nine more years before I could try it again. I have had to really think this through and seek out advice in high and low places and do strange things and learn unusual things. I have at times been in such deep denial of the things I am bringing to light that I have litteraly had to be heavily sedated untill I could deny it again when faced with the proofs of these things. I have been coached for many years that getting angy will only make my situation worse and no one who loved me whould help me find out the things I have been publicizing until they were certain that I would not only shoot myself in the foot with it. I have had to study history in order to put these things into context, and medicine to explain details and languages to find ways to express this information. This is not makebelieve or daydreaming or delusion. I admit that because so much of this is stuff that I have in th epast believed were dreams or delusions that I have at times made some wrong turns in my search for the truth behind why I cant get away cant get right cant get anything. But that was years ago. If I were going to play makebelieve I would pretend that OPEC was going to create a new paygrade and position just for me. My salary would be a billion dollars a year and my expense acount would be many billions. My position title would be Minister of Thought Management or The Mother of all Ministers and it would be my job to give them a better image. I would spend a good chunk of my salary starting instatutes to train slaves how to be free people and I would hire the success stories or place them all over the world. I would search the world over for people who do the kind of work that would help a person like I am discribing myself to be and make sure that they have everything they need to do their dream work and also tend to them so that htey have everything they need for their own personal development. I would take hold of the resources of the world and guide them to those who truly do good on the earth and away from those who do evil. Also I would bank roll my teachers and their dream projects. I would buy my fostermother and my uncle gramps out of slavery and anyone else they indicate and see to the resources neccessary for their best development. I would seek out "wild" doctors not to enslave them or steal their secrets for the profit of pharmesuitical compnies but to make sure that the circumstances that bring out the best in them will be provided to them. I would want to hire every last trust worthy person I can find and put them to use some how and also see that they are not deprived of resources. I would find the best in geriatric medicine and expand life expectancy indefinately in time for all my teachers who are still living now. I would think of doing things in such a way that if i retired when I was 270 or so this stuff would all be self maintaining and evil would be reduced to the status of a minor illness less severe than the common cold and easily cured. Some time in my 300's or 400's an innoculation for evil will finally eradicate it completly. But all that is infact a daydream the reality is that I stink and people dont like to sit next to me. the reality is that I live entirely on charity and even 35 dollars (established fee for being unable to pray) a day is more than I can part with and I can only pray that in the future I will be able to part with that much. the reality is that I am always racking my brains for thing of worth to do and praying that they will be accepted as an alternative to charity of money and goods. People never kick incontenat men out of town, nor are they often divorced by their wives, nor is thier incontence due to something thier wife did to them before they could even remotely be considered ready for it. But women who scream at men no matter what they have done seldoem acomplish any thing on earth and often as not loose the ablity to do anything ever again. Anger uncontroled is a waste of time. salaam, Aj-junubia :-) |
| 02/07/04 at 14:48:37 |
| al-ajnabia |
| Re: hadith on fistulas |
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| Anonymous |
| 02/08/04 at 21:41:35 |
| Assalamalaikum I've read some of your posts on the forum and would like to address these points: 1. The hadith you are referring to is NOT about fistulas but about extra-menstrual bleeding, which the Prophet SAW specifically referred to as originating from a vein as opposed to regular menstrual blood. Perhaps this will help you in finding the correct reference. 2.Your posts carry statements which make absolutely no sense ..."the established fee for not being able to pray is 35 dollars" ?? Where do you get this and other information that you quote from? 3. Other posters have said this but it bears repetition: Please seek professional help for all your problems...there are scores of Muslim charities and organizations all over the States who would be in a better position to help than members of a virtual community...no matter how well-meaning they may be. PS: Is there an ignore-user function on this board? Can anyone tell me how to use it? |
| Re: hadith on fistulas |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 02/08/04 at 22:32:24 |
| [wlm] Question one: I think I already said that blood and urine are not interchangable. question two: I found on one the website that had the fatwa on incontinance a reference to paying 7dollars per missed prayer to charity, however I do not know what this is base don or if the opinion in the fatwa was legitamate. final suggestion: Read some of my earlier posts, much of my abuse couldnt have happened without the collusion of doctors. I have been to various forms of councelling including groups and day treatment years ago. I ahve found education to be much more healing. I just watched on date line how a seriously deranged individual could have been caught sooner if people had considered his victoms more credible. I know I am not alone. other than cancer, the only primary cause of fistulas is child birth in early puberty. I am one of two women with a fistula on my wing here in a university dorm. I also lived with an older woman with one she had had since she gave birth in the 60's a few years ago, and when I was in the homelss shelters and mental hospitals I was also among many of the same frangrance and credibility. Maybe some think this subject distasteful but I see it as the freeing of slaves to raise this subject or atleast the attempt to free slaves. I just watched on dateline how a man admitted to holding teenage girls in a dungeon. And when one of them went to the police they did not beleive her and he victomised many more women over five more years. Waht I am saying is that myself and many others have been held in what apeared to be but what were not families and we were bred for the babies we could give. Few would dispute with me that people kill oranagatangue mothers when they want baby orangataunges, so why is it so hard to believe that people would do worse for something as precious as a human baby? I am also trying to expalin that they target american muslims. I dont mean reverts or recent imigrant families but people who have been coming here for five hundred years or more and trying to get a foot hold. When they fail thier descenddants face terrible fates. I have been involuntaily hospitalized when the only symptom I was exhibiting was expressing islam. But you sugest I shoud forget my children and put myself back into my proper cage, or am I reading too much into this? I wouldnt be doing this if all my children werent grown. If they were minors I would still be keeping the secret. Even my youngest child is a full time university student and holding down two part time jobs with athsma and anxiety. I think he is why I am doing this. Of all my children none of them had good guidance growing up, but I have seen time and time again that he is modest and thoughtful and takes after me in so many ways. Hes coming up on a rough age for people like us and I want him to know I am here as he enters it. Hes been spared musch of what I have gone through but I have been spared much of what he has gone through. I had a loving nurse for five years of my life, he only had me for possibly a month, and only a few visits, and I didnt know he was my son or why I was there, I always just wished. I know it is hard to believe that a person could forget things like that, but it is true that electricity applied correctly can cause temporary memory loss and subsequent recurring trauma can help maintain it. They used to do the same thing to indian kids in the mission schools. It caused them to froth at the mouth and the story has changed over the years. it is now said that they would wash out the mouths of children with soap when they spoke their own languages or refused to become christian. Soap may also cause a foamy mouth but it does not create the kind of forgetfullness that would lead these children to forget their own parents. I never know, I never know what my children remember or what they know or what they think they know about me. I dont know how to aproach them. I do know if I told three of them that I am their mother that I would be hurt really bad by the aunts and uncles who claim to be their parents. So I put this out there. I beleive that even if I dont reach them, there is a chance I may reach someone else in similar straits. I have an agrivated tone sometimes, but I cant help feel that some of the posts I read are so shallow. I have learned so hard not to speak directly of what bothers me that I have become known for hiding my true feeliings in convaluted posts. As someone who has forgotten all of this after it happened and re-remembered it there is a degree of dissociation form it, except that it is absoultely the only explanaiton for the depths of my feelings, I am functional and perceptive and in touch with reality when I believe it, and I am the opposite when I do not, I have used that for my own test of it. I have seen the physical evidence of my childbearing, but the memory is still vague, but the feeling is sharp and I can remember my emotional state in the past that supports it. It seems like these are off the point of islam, but I am using the details of my memory of my experinces to prove to you that there is a real and present danger to muslims in the united states, and from what I ahve seen at this very international american university it is a problem elsewhere too. American child abusers are a problem to the whole world, and I have seen how they use religions that are obscure in their own home towns to cover the victomisation of children and very young women. You should hear what the Tibetans have to say about what they have seen. But the people I have been most deealing with are now sheltering in obscure islamic cummunities right here where I am liveing. And having grown up with islam as the pinlight in the dankest dark I cant stand it nor tollerate it. Nor can I tolerate vain quoteing and the praising of it when there are issues that need to be dealt with. Well, this is very long and I commend anyone who reads the entierty of it wahtever opinion they have of it, but to those who skim, read and comment on something else please. Salaam, ;-) :-) |
| Re: hadith on fistulas |
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| jannah |
| 02/09/04 at 14:18:13 |
| wlm, I'm closing this thread because this should be a question given to a qualified faqih so he/she could take into account the situation and circumstances. I know a sister in Damascus who is an expert in this fiqh but don't know how to get in touch with her. But I think the rest of us guessing at this is not really a good thing here. Ajnabia, we are your muslim brothers and sisters and we can hear you and be your friend. But we really cannot change or help you in your problems past or present besides that. I know you are wary of the "system" or help from real people, but that is the only way to become an emotionally healthy person who can deal with her past and present. I know you feel you are educating us on the 'dark side' of life. But believe me, many of us have encountered the dark side in our own lives and living in the world we do today, it is impossible not to know of all these things that go on. May Allah guide you and give you solace inshaAllah. |
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