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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Nomi |
| 02/19/04 at 01:33:27 |
| [slm] What are your views on this term? As for me, i see no point in it. Islaam suggests a moderate path in everything that we do, hence its moderate and whosoever follows Islaam in letter and spirit is, by default, moderate. Whats the point in an explicit use of this word? Its now an old joke but for new members here... [i]There is also a class which believes in selected Islaam and call themselves moderate Muslims, i think they believe in 2.5 prayers per day!![/i] Only logical thing that comes to mind is that 'religious' Muslims who use this word for themselves try to show a true picture of islaam through their actions. And maybe they dont have time to explain or type this: [quote] Islaam suggests a moderate path in everything that we do, hence its moderate and whosoever follows Islaam in letter and spirit is by default moderate. [/quote] So they just rely on the term 'Moderate Muslim'. I also think that some use this term to send out an impression that they are prolly better than other 'practicing' Muslims in some way, Allahu Alim What am i talking about!!! [slm] A Moderate Muslim with Extra Topping. |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| theOriginal |
| 02/19/04 at 02:49:50 |
| [slm] so are you saying that the term is redundant? that's highly interesting...i must expound on that mathematically. and yes i think i'm a moderate muslim, and i'm also a tolerant one. is that even relevant? wasalaam. |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| MIT |
| 02/19/04 at 04:24:39 |
| as-salaamu alaikum A key question is who defines what a Moderate Muslim is? A person might be moderate according to his standards but a fundamentalist by another. A person might be a moderate in his own eyes but a sell-out in a another's. When the media and government officials make calls for moderate Muslims to speak out and 'reclaim leadership from the fanatics', they are referring to those who are willing to strip away from Islam those things that are not in accordance with the desires of the political leadership. That essential component of Islam that forbids a person to remain silent in the face of munkar (wrongdoing). So a classic example of a 'moderate' Muslim (from the viewpoint of the media/ govt.) is the official French mufti who only recently advised French Muslims that its better to follow the law of the land and not wear hijab, or even protest against moves to remove it from schools. |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| faith |
| 02/19/04 at 06:48:23 |
| [slm] not so long ago, someone posted a topic about the 2 types of practising muslims: partial muslims and full-time muslims. Unfortunately, I am unable to find the post, due to my limited know-how about IT. Could that brother/sister please post it again...I found it v. useful, mashaAllah... anyway, the gist of the article is this: The partial muslims are those who pray regularly, fast in ramadhan, give zakah and maybe go to hajj...but that is all that is islam about them...when they go about doing their work, being with their family, studying, etc., they have seperate and secular lives in doing so... In contrast, the full-time muslims, who also pray regularly, fast in ramadhan, give zakah, go to hajj, thinks, breath, islam whenever they are working, being with their family, studying...all their decisions, thoughts, actions, speech, friendship, etc. are based upon whether it is islamically correct, in accordance with the qur'an and sunnah, and whether it is pleasing to Allah or not... So, I think, that the more appropriate question is: is a moderate muslim a part time muslim or full-time muslim? Peace, :-) |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| sal |
| 02/19/04 at 15:19:19 |
| [slm] I think if we understand the basic requirement of ISLAM .and put it in process is all we are obliged to be . Every body is moderate in this view . I don’t think there are levels and categories except if there are difference in the toil any body is making to attain a bigger rank . I don’t call such a higher effort not moderate as long as it is for the sake of seeking more AJER and useful .It varies from one to another how his flexibility to conveying messages to the others is .( I guess this is where we may notice who is moderate and not ) but still if this wont make any negative consequence it is ok Other than this I cant justify for example arrogance and stubbornness of some people to believe they are making extraordinary mission for Islam by creating CONFLICT between scholars and thus if this result as in confusing the normal people to be just a matter of being not moderate We are all supposed to be moderate but with different ability if being hard worker than one another [wlm] |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Mossy |
| 02/21/04 at 10:15:18 |
| Salams, My personal view of the term is a balanced muslim. In the Ummah today, there is a clear disparity between those who seek to implement the akkham whilst forgetting that part of the Shariah is mercy - those who care for their actions without also caring for their inner state. There are those that go the other way, neglecting adherence and instead becoming lost in an esoteric world. As muslims, we must balance all the parts of our being - mind, body, spirit, heart and soul. Much of the problem we see today is the overemphasis on just a few of these to the detriment of the others. Islam is the middle path and does suggest moderation, but how many really follow it in both letter AND spirit? Hmm. In terms of seperate ideologies, I would say that the terms progressive and liberal muslim are far more loaded. Wa salams, Mossy |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Nomi |
| 02/22/04 at 15:16:45 |
| [slm] -- JustOne [quote] and yes i think i'm a moderate muslim, [size=2]and i'm also a tolerant one[/size] [/quote] -- me [quote] A Moderate Muslim [size=2]with Extra Topping. [/size] [/quote] MashaAllah sister, you interpreted my 'extra topping' perfectly right. hmm makes for a good gender [i]equity[/i], just dont start growing a beard now, ok? :) Sis faith and bro MIT, really appreciate your inputs. Sometime i do think that its just another way of dividing the ummah when media labels certain ppl as moderate and all the rest as fanatics/extremists. Bro Salem, you discussed the term in a different context i think. From what you are saying i get that its all about keeping one's cool regardless of how practicing one is. But generally this word is used for describing/labeling a muslim's islamic practices 'in number'. (I may not be making much sense as its 1:00 AM here !!) -- Mossy [quote] In terms of seperate ideologies, I would say that the terms progressive and liberal muslim are far more loaded. [/quote] Mind elaborating a litle, bro? Coz the way some ppl take these words, i have some issue :) |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Nabila |
| 02/22/04 at 15:49:43 |
| [slm] rrrg! If theres one 'media friendly' term that really gets my goat, it has to be 'moderate Muslim'. Whenever I hear it on the news, the implication seems to be that we are not 'real' Muslims, only half hearted followers who have 'toned down' Islamic teachings to fit in with the modern world, and that the terrorists are the ones who follow Islaam to the letter. But I'm a bit paranoid about that word. And, come to think of it, I'd probably be thought of as a 'moderate Muslim' myself :-/ ma asalaamah and take care |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| cara |
| 02/22/04 at 18:07:58 |
| Very interesting.. I was just thinking about this today. I'm getting used to Allah answering my question in very unusual ways. My introdution to Islam has been by 2 'moderate muslims' and its very confusing to me as I see them do a lot of things that are 'harem'. Don't get me wrong every one has faults but to say that just because they pray every day covers all the wrongdoing or does it ????? |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 02/22/04 at 20:09:17 |
| [slm] I want to reiterate Cara's question: Does praying five times a day cover all wrongdoing? Personally I find that impossible to believe. Does anyone know where people are getting this idea. Is it just a folk thing that spreads without any higher backing or is there some movement with learned shaikhs promoting this idea? Ihad sommeone tell me recently that I shouldnt even criticize obvious wrong doing because Allah forgives everything, and she cited a verse, but when I looked it up I saw that the next three verses said that it is neccessarry to repent of wongdoing before judgement day. When I forwarded that information to her I got no further response. Is that what a "moderate muslim" is? Is a moderate muslim someone who thinks Allah will forgive everybody no matter what even if they cary on in wrongdoing until the day of reconing and never repent until the first feel the fire? These are certainly the first to acuse me of extremism whenever I try to simply speak the truth. And I agree with the murisaki lady, when it comes to the media portraying inovators like the taliban as Islamic purists and mealy mouthed new agers as moderates it sort of leaves regular muslims floating in limbo at least in the dunya, but I'm sure sooner or later we will find our place. Salaam, |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Nomi |
| 02/23/04 at 00:49:08 |
| [slm] [quote author=cara link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=0#8 date=02/22/04 at 18:07:58] Don't get me wrong every one has faults but to say that just because they pray every day covers all the wrongdoing or does it ??? [/quote] First off, welcome to the board and to the ummah :) And ofcourse respected sis, all of us have our shortcomings. I think i have something from the old board that might be of some interest to you. The brother who started that thread is an acquaintance of mine ;-) Click there => [url=http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=ark&action=display&num=1333][color=Blue][u]Define a Fundamentalist[/u][/color][/url] [slm] Asim Zafar. |
| 02/23/04 at 00:50:33 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| MIT |
| 02/23/04 at 07:11:40 |
| as-salaamu alaikum People who keep on saying "We're not here to judge others because only Allah can judge what is in their hearts" in the face of open evil really annoy me. I don't mean the judging whereby someone says "you're going to Hell cos of x, y, z" because that is clearly wrong. But if someone is a gay or is drinking alcohol or missing salaah, that is a clear wrong and a person who points that out shouldn't be asked to shut up. These same people who say the above, if a known heroin addict came up and proposed for the hand of their daughter, i bet you they would make their own judgments pretty quickly. I agree that we're not here to judge what is in people's hearts, but you can't but form a judgment of a person because of his outward actions, especially when there is a clear text from the Qur'an or Sunnah clarifying the issue at hand. Can you? |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Tesseract |
| 02/24/04 at 01:37:39 |
| Wa'alaikum Assalam wa rahmatullah, How blessed are we that we are ummatee of Prophet Muhammad (saw), to whom the Glorious Book, Qur'an was revealed, a Book that has the answer to every question a person may ask, whether he be a believer or a disbeliever. As Muslims, we should always seek answers to our queries in Qur'an and Sunnah. Allah (swt) knows us so well, He (awj) Himself has described the *moderate Muslims* in His Book. Please, read the Translation and Tafseer of 32nd verse of Surah Faatir (35th chapter of Qur'an). Here is Shaykh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyah's commentary on this verse: [url]http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=28[/url] Here is Ibn Katheer's Tafseer of the aayah: [url]http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=35&tid=43104[/url] According to Qur'an, a moderate Muslim is known as "Muqtasid". WAllahu Ta'ala A'lam. Wassalamu 'alaikum. |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| theOriginal |
| 02/24/04 at 10:27:58 |
| [slm] Okay if we start talking about BALANCE versus MODERATION then we are enterring some sticky icky ground here. Everyone's balance is different. What defines balance? I don't consider myself balanced, but that's because I'm more comfortable with berating myself. Then I look at all the people around me who think they are balanced.... I have a friend who has had a boyfriend for 3 years, but she prays 5 times a day and does incredible charity work, and she thinks she's balanced. I have a friend who is niqaabee, and dropped out of university because she thought free mixing is haraam, and she thinks she is balanced. MashaAllah, I'm glad each of them have found their balances, but if I implemented their strategy in my life, I would, without a doubt, not be balanced, and I would also be extremely unhappy, near depression. I don't even think I could implement my sister's balance in my life. I wish I could implement my brother's balance, but that's a tough call to make on my part (especially being female...sigh, I have gender equality issues)...My parents, even, have a different balance. So then...what is this balanced, middle path that Islam encourages us to take? Which is it? How come I haven't found it? And where do I look for it? Wasalaam. |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Nomi |
| 02/24/04 at 11:10:09 |
| wlm, [quote author=JustOne link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=10#13 date=02/24/04 at 10:27:58] So then...what is this balanced, middle path that Islam encourages us to take? Which is it? How come I haven't found it? And where do I look for it? [/quote] My dear sister, i just went through ALL the subjectlines and posts of my interest at the bebzi stand of OLD madina, so i wont be able to write much as i'm exhausted. But i wanted to tell you that to become a *Moderate Muslimah*, you should learn one thing as a must.... Like .. its so very important but you still haven't found it... *sigh* . . . And that is . . . . . LEARN TO COOK BIRYANI ...... . . . Sigh, what day has come... you've to tell ppl things as trivial as this!! [slm] Your brother. ps: That was 39 pages into 25 threads per page... want to expound on that mathematically eh sis? :) pps: I think ur moderate mashaAllah... may Allah guide us all, ameen. |
| 02/24/04 at 11:12:34 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| jannah |
| 02/26/04 at 09:07:35 |
| [slm] [quote]Does praying five times a day cover all wrongdoing? [/quote] According to hadith, praying erases your minor sins from prayer to prayer.. and of course we know the side benefits.. being closer to Allah, helping us keep away from sins, etc. Of course your intention and sincerity has to be there. About criticizing wrong I think people have gotten really sensitive and feel guilty about their own issues so they don't want to "judge" anyone else. But really we should condemn wrong actions. We hate the kufr not the person. We're judging the action not the person. [quote]what is this balanced, middle path that Islam encourages us to take?[/quote] I think Islam IS the balanced, middle path. In all aspects, it tries to give balance to the human being - between dunya and akhirah, spiritual and divine. And we need to learn what Islam really requires with a lot of study and knowledge of hadith, sunnah, fiqh, scholarly writings and opinions, etc. Also, I don't think we should confuse extra things people do personally for their own iman as something required in Islam. Or see them as an extreme since the person is doing it for their own benefit. It's only when a person takes something extra and makes it part of Islam that we should see it as "extreme" since that changes what 'Islam' really is and makes it no longer the true balanced, middle path. |
| 02/26/04 at 09:10:05 |
| jannah |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| lucid9 |
| 02/26/04 at 14:25:53 |
| [slm] (1) Moderate islam is a political term. For example, Turkish muslims who drink, tango, and snog in alleyways, but go to eid prayer twice a year are the so-called moderate, chilled out muslims. They are made out to be the role models that us other muslims are supposed to follow. We practicing muslims say these are lax muslims. And that moderate muslims are really what are known as the normal mosque going muslims, who regularly go to mosque and fullfill all the obligatory acts of worship. On the other hand, those who are called the fundamentalist muslims -- those who pronounce kufr on everybody; who are always full of hate and seem to want to blow up the world every five minutes (like the Abu Hamza types) are really what we call the nutter muslims. Folks like this are bin Laden, al Muhajiroun and Omar Bakri. (2) Sincerity = Islam (innad deena nasiha) Without it, prayer loses it cleansing value as do all other acts. When folks say that prayer isn't the end all and be all -- they are always referring to the bloke down the road with a big beard who prays a lot, backbites a lot, and is an all around jerk. There are lots of phantom muslims like that. But, their ill behaviour isn't reflective of their praying nature (i.e. it doesn't knock the notion that "regular compulsory prayer protects against bad behaviour"). It simply reflects their lack of sincerity. (3) JustOne's post was pretty good...balance is very illusive...the middle path is very hard to find. It takes a lifetime to understand how to implement islam in one's daily life. This is particularly true because we have very few modern examples of practising muslims who haver very successfully integrated the worldly aspects and religious aspects of their life and excelled in both. And frankly speaking, in my opinion a lot of so called religious muslims...are so oblivious to their shortcomings that "balanced" is not something which they can easily be called... -an unbalanced butthead...:) |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| superFOB |
| 02/26/04 at 15:00:30 |
| [slm] [quote author=hyper link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=10#16 date=02/26/04 at 14:25:53]For example, Turkish muslims who drink, tango, and snog in alleyways, but go to eid prayer twice a year are the so-called moderate, chilled out muslims.[/quote] Is this backbiting, a slander on an entire people, or an honest slip of the keyboard? [quote author=hyper link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=10#16 date=02/26/04 at 14:25:53]On the other hand, those who are called the fundamentalist muslims -- those sho pronounce kufr on everybody; who are always full of hate and seem to want to blow up the world every five minutes (like the Abu Hamza types) are really what we call the nutter muslims. Folks like this are bin Laden, al Muhajiroun and Omar Bakri.[/quote] See previous comment. [quote author=hyper link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=10#16 date=02/26/04 at 14:25:53]balance is very illusive...the middle path is very hard to find. It takes a lifetime to understand how to implement islam in one's daily life.[/quote] The solution you offer disturbs me more then the problem being posed. Isn't there a howto guide to achieving moderation/balance? - genuinely concerned |
| 02/26/04 at 15:01:44 |
| superFOB |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Tesseract |
| 02/26/04 at 18:29:34 |
| Assalamu 'alaikum, [quote]So then...what is this balanced, middle path that Islam encourages us to take? Which is it? How come I haven't found it? And where do I look for it?[/quote] Last 2 weekends, I had awesome time attending the "History of Khulafa" class by Br. Muhammad Al-Shareef (director of Al-Maghrib institute), and during his class, while he was sharing his reflections with us, he said something to the effect of (since I cannot quote exact words)," It is very important that u DO NOT take your deen from layperson, but take it from the 'ulama/scholars/knowledgable people". So, the thing is that if you are trying to look for a balanced/moderate Islamic person from amongst the common people around you (like ur brother, sister, friend/s, parent/s or whoever it is), then you are going the wrong way. Look for it amongst the scholars, and ask the 'ulama/scholars about it. Btw, that whole point of being moderate aside, why not intend and strive to be amongst "sabiqoon" as Qur'an describes them being the "ones first and foremost." Wassalam. |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| superFOB |
| 02/26/04 at 19:10:35 |
| [slm] [quote author=Bulwark of Islam link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=10#18 date=02/26/04 at 18:29:34]" It is very important that u DO NOT take your deen from layperson, but take it from the 'ulama/scholars/knowledgable people". So, the thing is that if you are trying to look for a balanced/moderate Islamic person from amongst the common people around you (like ur brother, sister, friend/s, parent/s or whoever it is), then you are going the wrong way. Look for it amongst the scholars, and ask the 'ulama/scholars about it.[/quote] I see a very clear distinction between moderation in everyday life and knowledge of deen. This moderation is supposed to be a part of EVERY muslim's life regardless of their status and position. In fact, possession of knowledge is not necessarily an indicator of moderation, as can be amply demonstrated. |
| 02/26/04 at 19:12:25 |
| superFOB |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| theOriginal |
| 02/26/04 at 20:04:49 |
| [slm] I kind of agree with brother SuperFOB. "Islam is the balanced path" is a very vague statement. The way Islam is defined (even amongst scholars) is varied quite a bit. I mean we can, as we must, concentrate on the fundamentals, such as prayer and fasting, and being charitable, and being mannerful...but that does not define anything. Those people of knowledge perhaps dispute things well beyond the capacity of the layman, and those being at a different level of faith cannot reach those ranks. Anywho...this is all very confusing. Wasalaam. |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 02/27/04 at 00:20:00 |
| [quote author=hyper link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=10#16 date=02/26/04 at 14:25:53] (1) Moderate islam is a political term. For example, [color=red]Turkish[/color] muslims who drink, tango, and snog in alleyways, but go to eid prayer twice a year are the so-called moderate, chilled out muslims. They are made out to be the role models that us other muslims are supposed to follow. [color=red]We practicing muslims[/color] say these are lax muslims. And that moderate muslims are really what are known as the normal mosque going muslims, who regularly go to mosque and fullfill all the obligatory acts of worship. On the other hand, those who are called the fundamentalist muslims -- those who pronounce kufr on everybody; who are always full of hate and seem to want to blow up the world every five minutes (like the [color=red]Abu Hamza[/color] types) are really what we call [color=red]the nutter muslims[/color]. Folks like this are [color=red]bin Laden[/color], al Muhajiroun and [color=red]Omar Bakri.[/color][/quote] Subhan Allah. Are Turks the *only* Muslims in the world who drink, tango and snog in alleyways, that you had to mention them specifically? And must *all* Turks be classified into a single category? Is there not a single good one amongst them in your "practising" eyes?! Subhan Allah! And masha Allah, I feel so honored to know someone, albeit virtually, who knows such mysterious men as Bin Laden, Abu Hamza, and Omar Bakri so well that he's able to label them as nutters so confidently! I'm sure Allah (awj) will reward you abundantly for giving these men such an apt title. Should I ask for your autograph Mr. self-acclaimed-butthead? Or should I just go instead to those who gave you this profound 'ilm? CNN? ABC? Or Mr. Bush himself? (radiAllahu anhu?!) Hasbunallaahu wa ni'mal wakeel. Peace. |
| 02/27/04 at 00:21:18 |
| Abu_Hamza |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| lucid9 |
| 02/27/04 at 06:02:04 |
| [quote author=Abu_Hamza link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=20#21 date=02/27/04 at 00:20:00] Subhan Allah. Are Turks the *only* Muslims in the world who drink, tango and snog in alleyways, that you had to mention them specifically? [/quote] silly....i only mentioned turks because everybody makes the turks out to be the ideal that all muslims should emulate. Musharraf said he wants to remake Pakland in the mold of Turkey. And whenever folks say hey...muslims can handle democracy...they always bring up turkey as the example showing how muslims must handle religion and politics when in fact turkey is the most anti-islamic country around...and has handled religion and politics by simply binning religion Its really interesting how various brothers jumped on me for nothing. It makes you wonder whether they just simply objected to my words...or have a more serious bone to pick with me...gee i wonder... [quote] And must *all* Turks be classified into a single category? Is there not a single good one amongst them in your "practising" eyes?! [/quote] read carefully what i said...i explicitly said turks ***WHO** snog, drink etc... I didn't say all turks do that. [quote] Subhan Allah! [/quote] the pomposity in invoking Allah's name in condeming someone when they have done nothing wrong, and when you yourself have been careless in reading his post is not surprising....as it happens a lot...but it is nevertheless very distasteful... [quote] And masha Allah, I feel so honored to know someone, albeit virtually, who knows such mysterious men as Bin Laden, Abu Hamza, and Omar Bakri so well that he's able to label them as nutters so confidently! I'm sure Allah (awj) will reward you abundantly for giving these men such an apt title. Should I ask for your autograph Mr. self-acclaimed-butthead? Or should I just go instead to those who gave you this profound 'ilm? CNN? ABC? Or Mr. Bush himself? (radiAllahu anhu?!) [/quote] There's so much love on the board!! Some people are always looking to knock, or harrass or insult others they might disagree with. No wonder many folks still believe us muslims act like be belong in the stone age. [quote] Hasbunallaahu wa ni'mal wakeel. [/quote] Yes, Husbunallah wa ni'mal wakeel so that people like myself can easily withstand insults and false insinutations from people like you and superFOB and many others. No wonder people like Humblemuslim and others have often felt a deep desire to flee from this board... [quote] Peace. [/quote] You know, that that is the greeting one applies to nonmuslims....what are you implying? [slm] |
| 02/27/04 at 06:07:19 |
| lucid9 |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 02/27/04 at 08:57:02 |
| [quote author=hyper link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=20#22 date=02/27/04 at 06:02:04] silly....i only mentioned turks because everybody makes the turks out to be the ideal that all muslims should emulate. Musharraf said he wants to remake Pakland in the mold of Turkey. And whenever folks say hey...muslims can handle democracy...they always bring up turkey as the example showing how muslims must handle religion and politics when in fact turkey is the most anti-islamic country around...and has handled religion and politics by simply binning religion ... read carefully what i said...i explicitly said turks ***WHO** snog, drink etc... I didn't say all turks do that.[/quote] Why Turks? Why couldn't you just say "Muslims who snog, drink, etc."? Your singling out of the Turks gives an impression that you have a serious bone to pick with them, as a race. Maybe that's not what you meant. If you didn't, alhamdulillah. But that's the implication of your words, and it sounds very offensive to a Turk. [quote]the pomposity in invoking Allah's name in condeming someone when they have done nothing wrong, and when you yourself have been careless in reading his post is not surprising....as it happens a lot...but it is nevertheless very distasteful...[/quote] And it's very tasteful to read posts that are written carelessly and without much thought so that they can be easily misunderstood to be an attack on an entire race of people. Yeah, you're right. [quote]There's so much love on the board!! Some people are always looking to knock, or harrass or insult others they might disagree with. No wonder many folks still believe us muslims act like be belong in the stone age.[/quote] If only you could see that this is exactly what you did in your first post! This is part of what you had said: "(like the Abu Hamza types) are really what we call the nutter muslims. Folks like this are bin Laden, al Muhajiroun and Omar Bakri." [quote]Yes, Husbunallah wa ni'mal wakeel so that people like myself can easily withstand insults and false insinutations from people like you and superFOB and many others. No wonder people like Humblemuslim and others have often felt a deep desire to flee from this board...[/quote] People are free to flee from this board if they desire. I would reckon that it's the sarcastic, judgmental attitude of people like you that are more of a cause of people getting turned off from the board. It's interesting that you took my post as an insult, yet you could care less about how your own original post was insulting Muslims *by name*! Do you still not see the oxymoron in your whole discourse? [quote]You know, that that is the greeting one applies to nonmuslims....what are you implying? [/quote] Non-Muslims? I thought "Peace" was the greeting of the people of Paradise! Bro, you've been on this message board for a very long time. Have I ever said anything in response to your posts that you think I "have a more serious bone to pick on" with you? Instead of just telling yourself "this guy just has issues," I wish you would stop for a minute and look closely at what you wrote. Those men that you named and almost cursed in your post are *Muslim* men who we know almost nothing about except what a disbelieving, anti-Islamic news media has told us. Even if we assume for a minute that they are guilty of all that they're accused of, they are still Muslim. Muslims that may have erred and sinned, but they are Muslims nonetheless. I am not the kind to write harshly or sarcastically on this board. But what you said was wrong and offensive. Wassalamu alaikum. |
| 02/27/04 at 09:03:18 |
| Abu_Hamza |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| MIT |
| 02/27/04 at 09:30:51 |
| Peace. Abu Hamza are you sure you haven't taken the post the wrong way? When hyper refers the "the Abu Hamza types" i don't think he is referring to you. He is referring to Abu Hamza al-Misri. Peace. |
| NS |
| :( |
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| timbuktu |
| 02/27/04 at 09:47:42 |
| [slm] bro MIT, I don't think bro Abu Hamza thinks he was the "Abu Hamza" in bro hyper's post. I think (although not sure) the reference was to a certain radical khateeb. but why must we take our posts in a negative light and react with anger or sadness. come, come, brothers, is this (such) a matter that you write such posts to each other? or maybe you are facing the difficulties of life. maybe? don't take it out on each other, please. |
| 02/27/04 at 09:50:09 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| theOriginal |
| 02/27/04 at 11:42:31 |
| [slm] Okay umm...I feel threatened that this thread might be locked because you guys have changed the course of the whole discussion. On a personal note, I am really interested to hear what you everyone has to say about balance and moderation, etc. A brother who I have known for my whole four years at university is very interested in the philosophical side of Islam. He explained balance to be defined not as something specific or consistent across all muslims, but rather to be more of a range. The appropriate example could be Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra) and Hadhrat 'Umar (ra), who were both on the straight path, yet on opposite ends of it. Now, the balance perhaps comes from the effort put into practicing your religion, and always checking on yourself and your intentions to make sure you are not wavering on either extreme. So as long as you are within the "range of reason", you are balanced. But balance is not a destination, it's something you have to work on every moment of your precious life. What I have severe contention with is the recurrent close-mindedness of most Muslims (myself included). They find themselves in a position where they feel they are balanced, but they forget that balance is something that has to be maintained, and if you stop making an effort, you WILL falter, Wallahu Alam. The thing is, most Muslims (unfortunately this thread was a prime example) are not tolerant of other people's points of views, which are a product of many things, including their background, their vocation, their personality, and their God-given capacity to understand. The greater problem arises because these Muslims (once again, this goes out to me first) believe they ARE tolerant, so it's sort of a paradox, which I don't see a solution to. This is just how I see the majority. So although a Muslim might be balanced, without being tolerant s/he can never be moderate. And there are many moderate Muslims who aren't balanced, and these are perhaps those who are tolerant, but don't practice Islam. Who I, personally, want to model myself after...are those people, few and far between as they may be, who are balanced because of the constant check they apply to their intentions, and those who are tolerant of other people. In my useless opinion, some scholars do fit this description (so yes, bro bulwark, you're right), but some scholars do not. I think I mentioned in some other thread, that there are people who have not yet reached the melting point in religion...I just pray that we all do. Did I make any sense? If not, ignore this whole post. Wasalaam. |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| lucid9 |
| 02/27/04 at 12:17:12 |
| [quote author=Abu_Hamza link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=20#24 date=02/27/04 at 08:57:02] Those men that you named and almost cursed in your post are *Muslim* men who we know almost nothing about except what a disbelieving, anti-Islamic news media has told us. Even if we assume for a minute that they are guilty of all that they're accused of, they are still Muslim. Muslims that may have erred and sinned, but they are Muslims nonetheless. [/quote] I do know something about these folks. But, frankly how much does one really need to know? Do you have to know what brand of toothpaste they use (bush and blair are best friends since they use the same!), or what kind of toilet paper they use or what they do on rainy nights before you can judge them by their actions? The actions of these men are very public and very easy to see. At the end of the day all you need to know is the following: EDITED BY ADMIN It is the tragedy of muslims that when people see active muslims ostensibly do wrong they just sit back and refuse to pass judgement...thinking well: he knows lots of quran or he is sooo religion...when it is very clear from their actions that they are a danger to muslims and care only about their own selfish agenda. Good muslims because of their ostentatious piety seem to able to get away with anything...ANYTHING!!!!...and the fact that the sincere muslim crowd let them get away with it is our living tragedy. |
| 02/27/04 at 21:12:34 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| MIT |
| 02/27/04 at 12:33:13 |
| as-salaamu alaikum I'm a British Muslim, and i concur with most, if not everything that hyper says. |
| NS |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| superFOB |
| 02/27/04 at 12:53:47 |
| [slm] [quote author=hyper link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=20#22 date=02/27/04 at 06:02:04]Yes, Husbunallah wa ni'mal wakeel so that people like myself can easily withstand insults and false insinutations from people like you and superFOB and many others. No wonder people like Humblemuslim and others have often felt a deep desire to flee from this board...[/quote] Lol, was I sarcastic in my post? I hope not, not intentionally in any case. I am sorry if I was. If it makes you feel any better, I have always respected your point of view. Anyways, your outburst makes me VERY cautious of conversing with you in the near future. That aside, lets not hijack the thread shall we. [quote author=JustOne link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=20#27 date=02/27/04 at 11:42:31]He explained balance to be defined not as something specific or consistent across all muslims, but rather to be more of a range.[/quote] This is true of any and everything in the world. We do not live in a discrete world you know. [quote author=JustOne link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=20#27 date=02/27/04 at 11:42:31]The appropriate example could be Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra) and Hadhrat 'Umar (ra), who were both on the straight path, yet on opposite ends of it.[/quote] An ambiguous statement at best. Were they on opposite ends? I think not. Its mainly a misconception which has been strengthened by half-cooked biographies. [quote author=JustOne link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=20#27 date=02/27/04 at 11:42:31]Now, the balance perhaps comes from the effort put into practicing your religion, and always checking on yourself and your intentions to make sure you are not wavering on either extreme. So as long as you are within the "range of reason", you are balanced. But balance is not a destination, it's something you have to work on every moment of your precious life.[/quote] Yes, but where do you find that reference with which to compare yourself with? Ever heard of a negative feedback loop? [quote author=JustOne link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=20#27 date=02/27/04 at 11:42:31]The thing is, most Muslims (unfortunately this thread was a prime example) are not tolerant of other people's points of views, which are a product of many things, including their background, their vocation, their personality, and their God-given capacity to understand. The greater problem arises because these Muslims (once again, this goes out to me first) believe they ARE tolerant, so it's sort of a paradox, which I don't see a solution to. This is just how I see the majority. So although a Muslim might be balanced, without being tolerant s/he can never be moderate. And there are many moderate Muslims who aren't balanced, and these are perhaps those who are tolerant, but don't practice Islam.[/quote] Perspectives are fine, but some principles can not be compromised upon. Those who don't practice, their tolerance comes from ignorance, which is of no benefit to them. Their ignorance will be held against them on the day of accountability. And those who claim to practice, but are still hard on the muslims, they will be held accountable too. [quote author=JustOne link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=20#27 date=02/27/04 at 11:42:31]Who I, personally, want to model myself after...are those people, few and far between as they may be, who are balanced because of the constant check they apply to their intentions, and those who are tolerant of other people. In my useless opinion, some scholars do fit this description (so yes, bro bulwark, you're right), but some scholars do not. I think I mentioned in some other thread, that there are people who have not yet reached the melting point in religion...I just pray that we all do.[/quote] Yes, I agree, it is VERY important to keep in close touch with the people of knowledge. And there's the rub - who are those people of knowledge and how to make a positive ID? How to tell which people of knowledge are on the path of moderation? The whole bootstrap process is missing here. |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| jannah |
| 02/27/04 at 14:31:55 |
| [color=red] Discussion of any specific Muslim(s), Turks, Omar Bakri, Muhajaroun, Bin Laden, Abu Hamza, etc should be taken offline. These are banned topics. You may discuss them at your leisure through email/msg etc. Everyone, please keep this thread general and do not get personal. [/color] |
| 02/27/04 at 14:39:16 |
| jannah |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 02/27/04 at 17:02:39 |
| Note: Per Sr. Jannah's request, and abiding by the rules of the constitution of the Madina, I'm not going to mention any names of people or groups in this post. The point is not to talk about any one individual or group, but a phenomenon in general. If the admin still feels this post is in violation of any of the rules, they may remove it without hesitation. [slm] Why do we have this attitude that if someone doesn't come out and blatantly curse certain individuals or groups, then they must hold these individuals/groups as angels and role models for the society! "You're either against them or with them!" I do not say that the wrongs committed by anyone should be dismissed and ignored simply because they are pious worshippers. How can I say that when Allah (awj) commands us to be just and fair, and to speak out against all evil. What I say is, don't demean people and insult them (let alone curse them in their *absence*), simply because of what you've *heard* from a biased media that is out with a very clear mission against Islam. If we can't understand that, then we're nothing but a herd of sheep riding the bandwagon. We have stooped to a point where we can't even think anymore with our own minds. We cry "extremism" and "fanaticism" when the media plays selected snippets from the speech of certain Muslim individuals, yet we do not see the fanaticism in our own labeling of these men with irreputable titles! We call them nuts, but we consider our own "criticism" (more like personal attacks) of such people's actions (and character!) from behind a keyboard on a web site which the individual will *never* read to be the perfectly wise and strategic course of action in a world full of people that are too "silent" in the face of wrongdoing! Oh yeah, how wise we are! And to choose such effective words in our critique of these men, that I'm sure if they *were* to read them, it would surely change their personality and bring that big change in the world that we all so earnestly seek to bring. No Br. Timbuktu, my rants in this thread are not a product of some personal trauma that I'm facing in my life. It is a reaction to the sad state of affairs that I find ourselves in - where we lose the respect for those who say laa ilaha illallaah, and join the ranks of the enemies of Islam in attacking the men of our own faith. When the son of Imam Ahmed asked him why doesn't he curse Hajjaj ibn Yusuf, his response was, "when did you ever see your father curse anyone?" That was Hajjaj, who killed companions of the Prophet (saw) like Abdullah ibn al-Zubayr, attacked the Ka'bah, and did numerous other horrific things. When the funeral of a Jewish man passed by the Prophet [saw], he stood up to show respect to the person, even though the dead man belonged to a hostile tribe which was planning and plotting to kill the Prophet [saw] and annihilate this Deen from the face of this Earth! Again I say, we've gotta stop putting people in the category of either being at one extreme or the other. You can show disagreement to a certain Muslim individual or a group, you can advise them, you can be vocal in your disapproval of their actions, you can warn them, you can even take physical action against them (if you are in a position of authority). But don't curse them, don't belittle them in their absence, and don't laugh at them behind their back .. especially if that's the very thing that the enemies of Islam *want* you to do! Be moderate, for God's sake! [i][color=black]O you who believe! let not (one) people laugh at (another) people perchance they may be better than they, nor let women (laugh) at (other) women, perchance they may be better than they; and do not find fault with your own people nor call one another by nicknames; evil is a bad name after faith, and whoever does not turn, these it is that are the unjust. (49:11)[/i][/color] Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah |
| 02/27/04 at 23:28:46 |
| jannah |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| bhaloo |
| 02/27/04 at 21:19:20 |
| [slm] Jazak Allahkhairen Abu Hamza and Jannah. There will be no discussions of groups here, and then this nonsese of discussing people that are already clearly mentioned in the constitution as a banned topic stops here. This isn't the first time this has happened and the tragic thing is that its happening by the same person(s) again and again. Everyone needs to go back and read the constitution. And if someone doesn't agree with the rules then just leave. You all made an agreement to abide by the rules when you came here. |
| 02/27/04 at 21:21:20 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Nomi |
| 02/28/04 at 07:35:48 |
| ;-) [slm] I wanted to say that, no matter what others think of bro hyper, i like him v-much. I have a best friend of his likes from uni, who btw is less hyper now :). What Arsalan did to you is called a 'taste ur own medicine' strategy ;) ... forgive each other inshaAllah. Anywho (heh angraygee) few points were raised about being moderate i gender mising, tolerance and finally the myth of the balance thingy. Here is my take on these issues. 1] Gender Mixing: I believe that the reason we 'religious' muslims need to mix while living in non-muslims societies is the lack of a support system. There aren't many muslims around and hence to save our not so religious sisters from fitna, religious brothers can hook-up with them keeping deen in mind. Same is true for sisters, like if at uni there is some dude who is at the risk of being annihilated by the satanic civilization then obviously the 'religious' sister can be a litle friendly with him with dawah/deen as "the" neeyah behind all this. But to be able to do it without one (religious one) getting corrupted instead, one should make sure that his/her connection with ulema and masjid is even more stronger than the 'regular' religious class (Can not emphasize on this bit more). What i dont like is that when ppl try to sell it to us that this area of islaam is getting redefined to its original self among practicing Muslims living in non-muslim lands. I mean this can not be applied as is to Muslim countries where "we" the "ummah" does have a support system. Sisters have "many" practicing sisters around them to provide this support. Same is true for brothers, and there is no need whatsoever for a brother chit chatting with sisters which would prolly be for 'getting' some err support (enjoyment) rather than providing support for deen. Of course nothing is simply black and white as even where i live there is a class who i call the untouchables. Untouchables in a sense that it "seems" there is no dawah facility available to them as they just have cut themselves off of any such thing. Hence i, unlike sister amkamb, often think of ways to 'touch' them somehow. Even if its some sister, even if its through the internet. It might not be true for everyone but thats just my theory in short (talk to your local imam for details). No need to tell me that i'm weird, whats ahead will confirm it. 2] Tolerance, but for whom? I've been treated like dirt a few times, more on this will be explained in next section (talk about being organized eh?) but for now i'll just quote this incident where a friend's dad passed few comments on my beard. Neither i'm not holding it against him coz hes a nice uncle, nor i would categorize it as being treated like dirt. Actually he himself keeps a line-beard and we friends were sitting/chilling at his son's engagement, he came to me and started telling me how i should trim my beard short (to 1 inch?) and how i am representing my deen in a wrong manner!! I was simply dumbfounded, couldn't argue with him as that would have been considered talking-back to your elders, had it been some friend i would have given him a good piece of my mind :). I mean.... helloo, its the same beard for which i get compliments once in a while, so for heavens sake, plz let me be. Next point is about religious women and covering. Let me make it clear that i'm not generalizing so plz, no need to shoot me down inshaAllah. I've observed that 'some' from the 'dupatta only class' are tolerant towards the religious but non-dupatta class but these very sisters are not tolerant when it comes to hijabi+abaya class. And 'some' from hijabi+abaya class are tolerant towards dupatta only class but not so tolerant when it comes to niqaabi class. Tolerance for whom then? To whom "we" think are less practical in deen... only to this class or should we also show tolerance to those who "we" think are doing more than us OR, are (according to 'us') following a strict version of islaam which btw "is" supported by backing of "many" fatawa of Alims from more than one school of thought. .. Answers ? 3] Cumulative Balance Another of my tainted theories. I 'think' that there are alot many humble muslims around me who are always down to earth even when others treat them like dirt. My brother is one examples and many more around me. They say in my native language "dont be as sweet that others chew you" (interpretation of the meaning) so when i get treated like dirt, which i think is due to my 'outlook' (beard?), i backfire! For instance, from our return from hajj, there were all hajjis in the flight. Most of them were the religious lower/middle-lower class, people had to do wudu for namaaz and we all know how big the washrooms are in those huge planes (man we need some muslim planes too). Although it was the staff's genuine concern that people should not splash water which would have easily been achieved by standing there guiding them but instead they were even yelling at old people. This one air hostess and a stuart (sp?) in particular were going real red. I was in my dashing imama and white shalwar kameez with fine black borders/embroidery (heh) but with swear headache that i dint bother much about whats happening around me. All you pakis must be knowing that many in this country are full time slaves of western civilization, some even have started to teach their kids english 'only'. I can't believe it that they can't even speak their native language living in their own country. This class only judge your intellect by your outlook and english speaking ability, pathetic yeah? Me being tainted to bone rather enjoy this attitude of theirs. So, i decided to give that air hostess a good piece of my mind when she was bad mouthing another old hajji. I bet that if i conversed in urdu she would have equally backfired but the other way made her jaw stayed dropped for a while, that uncle (who was bad mouthing) from staff didn't dare open his mouth either. Dont get me wrong, dint call em names .. sheesh, just told them to watch their tone and dont be so rude to others considering all of us who are dressed up modestly as illiterate goons. Its just that i was a litle more wordy... wordy eh? There were only 3-4 such incidents. This latest time a dude decided to show me da finga while i was turning right on my way to office and he was turning left on the same road. Alhamdulillah for the rare view mirrow... I think he'd watched too many western movies or maybe his favorite moment of "Matrix" was when Mr. Neo showed da same thing to that agent! Some other angelic bearded [s]goblin[/s] would have said just told him "ya akhi lut al-showing finga, haza haraam". But i think there isn't a good 'cumulative balance' when everyone is soo down to earth, so i blocked his car with my old gizmo and it just me coming out of my car, walking towards him with ma improved desi chest out to see him pee his pants. Well not literally but that look on his face was quite interesting! Dint say/do anything bad to him, just told him that ur my brother but plz... dont do that! These are just few occasional incidents which do make me think that prolly i'm gonna burn in hell bad for this tainted approach, then i think of Hazrat Omer (radiAllahu Anhu) for a glimmer of hope. Not to say that we can even match dirt of his body. I'll be happy to be shot down for my 'cumulative balance' theory. [slm] - A self proclaimed unbalanced bacwards desi ps: dont have time to correct my typos, my short retreat starts today inshaAllah. Duas will be highly appreciated. pps: just made few corrections .. and note that, that awkward balance thingy was towards the yo man class. |
| 02/28/04 at 16:30:05 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| theOriginal |
| 02/28/04 at 11:40:28 |
| [slm] What? Brother Nomi, you're going to HAVE to explain the relevance of what you just wrote. I don't get it. We were talking about moderation and balance amongst all Muslims, regardless of gender, because I hope you agree, men and women both need to be balanced and moderate. I hope it wasn't a reference to the brother that I mentioned, because that's absurd. We're an Ummah of both men and women, not an ummah of men and an ummah of women. I'm not saying that we should mix freely, but without jumping to conclusions, perhaps you should not have said what you said. And I have extreme respect for this brother, so please don't say things that make me cringe. Thanks in advance.. Next...tolerance? Forget about who hijabis, niqabis, jilbabis are tolerant towards...I think that, in particular, is more a product of the female disposition to be competitive, rather than an intolerance. People are not intolerant because of the clothes they wear, it has to do with their inability to accept or comprehend. Like I said, I know women (we'll stick to women, since that's what you mentioned) who wear the niqaab and are really cool...in terms of how their capacity to understand things...the same applies to some chix I've met who don't even wear the hijaab. I didn't even get your cumulative balance theory. You can't aim to be the worst person on the planet hoping that the best person on the planet will balance you out. I don't think it works that way. You have to balance yourself, then your family, then your community...onwards. Wasalaam. |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Tesseract |
| 02/28/04 at 14:52:59 |
| Wa'alaikum Assalam wa rahmatullah, [quote]I see a very clear distinction between moderation in everyday life and knowledge of deen. This moderation is supposed to be a part of EVERY muslim's life regardless of their status and position. In fact, possession of knowledge is not necessarily an indicator of moderation, as can be amply demonstrated.[/quote] Bro. superFOB :), this moderation is "supposed to be" a part of EVERY Musilm's life regardless of their status and position.....................But unfortunately it is not, right? Why? To me, the answer is either lack of proper knowledge or weak eeman, or maybe both of them. And this is where the difference is between a layperson and a man of knowledge. To me, *what* and *how* scholars practice Islam, is moderation, because they know how to do it. And that's exactly the point I was trying to make in my earlier post that if one has to look for a moderate Muslim as an example, look for it amongst the scholars/knowledgable people, and do not take a layperson as an example, and I quoted Br. Muhammad Al-Shareef's words. To my understanding, what he said ( that we should take our deen from 'ulama only), includes both "knowledge" and "practice", because DEEN is not only knowledge, neither is it only practice, rather a combination of both. However, I completely agree with ur point that "possession of knowledge is not necessarily an indicator of moderation" i-e not all people known to be 'ulama, or who claim to be 'ulama, are to be taken as examplary moderate Muslims. In that case, one has to look at the *practice* of the scholar (whether it is according to Qur'an and Sunnah or not) to be able to differentiate whether he should be taken as an example or not, and I don't think its that difficult, because many of us do have some basic knowledge of Qur'an and sunnah. Allahu Ta'ala A'lam. Whatever I have said, I have said it from my very limited knoweldge and understanding of my deen, so if I said something wrong, I ask Allah (swt) to forgive me and guide me to the truth (Ameen). Wassalam. |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 02/28/04 at 16:03:07 |
| [slm] I think what nomi wrote was about being for real. I get what it is doing here, but I also tend to deal with questions by answering them with short stories. I think It is a very valid form of discourse and I think in the future it may even become a standard form. Its jsut a good way to give an honest answer/comment about a complicated and emotion enspiring thing. [slm] |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| Nomi |
| 02/28/04 at 16:22:40 |
| [wlm] [quote author=JustOne link=board=madrasa;num=1077172409;start=30#34 date=02/28/04 at 11:40:28] What? Brother Nomi, you're going to HAVE to explain the relevance of what you just wrote. And I have extreme respect for this brother, so please don't say things that make me cringe. [/quote] I think i got lucky for having my headache and being sleepless at my retreat due to which i fled back home till fajr... Since you threatened ('have' in caps) me so I am responding but only to the quoted part from your post as the rest of it is based on this assumption of yours that my post was targetted at you. My mistake i think, i should have explicitly mentioned it that its not targetted at anyone let alone you. Its just how i see these things and i dont even know which brother you are talking about here, i'm at a loss!! And just because i try to be funny most of the time doesn't mean that i should not get any respect... um... perhaps i dont derserve any... I end this post with a smile coz my own sister takes her shots at me once in a while and when i dont mind that why should i mind words of a sister on the net :) peace to you [slm] ps: Sorry, i feel obligated to respond to another comment of yours about being worst person on the planet which will be balanced out by the best person... My answer: Dont exploit, dont exaggerate. Thanks. (the smile stays) |
| 02/28/04 at 16:35:25 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| stranger |
| 02/28/04 at 20:12:04 |
| [slm] There was once a man who got news of a tree that was being worshipped at such and such a town. So he set about with an axe and went towards the town. On the way he comes across shaitan who asks him what are you doing?. So he says I'm going to this town to cut down a tree which is being worshipped by such and such people. And shaitan tells him, I'm not going to let you. So they fight and the man comes out on top. So as he's pinned down, shaitan tells him, listen, leave this town alone and I'll leave you a dollar under your pillow every day. So the man thinks to himself, I'm a poor man, this dollar would really help me out. So he agrees to the deal. So every day, the man gets a dollar under his pillow. One day, the dollar doesn't come. So he gets angry and says this shaitan has cheated me. He gets his axe and goes off towards the town to cut down the tree. On the way he meets shaitan who asks him what are you doing? The man says, you cheated me so I'm gonna go cut down that tree. And shaitan tells him I'm not going to let you. So they fight and shaitan comes out on top. So as he's pinned down, the man asks, how come I defeated you so easily the first time and this time I could not? And shaitan says, the first time you came for the sake of Allah so I could not defeat you. Now, you've come for the sake of greed so you could not defeat me. The moral of this story is that this thread should not have been started in the first place and really deserves to be shut down. Plus it was inspiring when I heard it so I thought I'd share it on accounts of sister al-ajnabias post. Anyway, aren't there more important things than who's moderate and how to define moderate? Insha'allah we will all find the moderate path if we try to follow the path of prophet Muhammad (sallahu 'laihi wa sallam). [slm] |
| Re: Are you a *Moderate Muslim*? |
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| jannah |
| 02/29/04 at 01:57:19 |
| wlm, [quote] The moral of this story is that this thread should not have been started in the first place and really deserves to be shut down.[/quote] bro thanx for the wisdom of your story, but i think as long as people don't go into banned topics/break rules and are respectful, any topic is fine to discuss. there are alot of people that have questions and we should try our best to discuss and share experiences and knowledge when we can inshaAllah. this for example is an extremely relevant topic, and sometimes it's very important to discuss things like these among ourselves to help everyone come to a common understanding. we can see that when we don't come to a consensus among ourselves, outsiders do it for us and often to our detriment. it is easy for us to say "just be muslim" or "follow the sunnah" but sometimes that doesn't help and it's more complex than that.. at least for those of us who are struggling.. jazakallah khair |
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